I was an SSI instructor. When going through the course, my instructor told me that I spend too much time with my students. He said no more than 20 minutes a chapter. I told him that it's my name going on their card. I'll spend as much time as they need.
When I used to work for a shop I had the same experience and them wanting me to pass students who hadn't completed dives/skills. You did the right thing, at the end of the day the instructor will be liable.
Oh man, I’m happy I’m independent, I spend quite some time before the dives going through various questions and deep diving into questions from my students and in the end I think we are all having a good time and they become good divers.
As requested: James was my instructor for the TDI Advanced Nitrox + Deco Procedures courses, and as he says, the first thing we did (after being treated to a great cup of fresh coffee!) was review and sign all the legal paperwork, then a very thorough item by item review of the course standards. We reviewed them again on the last day of the course, just to ensure we had covered everything (we had, and more!). I’m happy to assert that with James as your instructor, you get more than your money’s worth. As a recreational dive professional, I appreciate James’ efforts to help us all be better divers, and dive professionals!
As someone who is in the process as relearning to dive with GUE, I know they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea but they are very up front about standards (all publicly available) and you aren’t issued your cert until you complete a quality control form about the course
GUE also takes those quality control forms seriously. So much as a single one comes back negative and the quality team is investigating. Seems extreme, but the standardization of quality with instruction in GUE is impressive.
Just got a new student because of this video. Thanks! He evaluated the training he was receiving and decided it wasn’t all that he wanted to get out of it and decided to talk to me about how I conduct classes.
Im only 4 minutes into this and as someone who runs a dive club and is struggling a lot right now.. Thank you. Standards are easy to not enforce especially if there's a pre-existing culture of giving people the benefit of the doubt so to not disappoint and "bring more people into diving". It simply leads to awkward conversations you described where students feel the instructor has failed them, rather than the student having failed the standards and therefore not being awarded.
I did my AOW with Padi in the Bahamas and the instructor always told me ahead of time what was expected for each specialty dive by reading the cards PADI prepared for each specialty. Everything was well done. When I did my PADI OW in Cancun before that, the instructor was also very clear about the expectations and standards and very safety oriented. We've remained good friends and have spoken a few times over the years of his dissatisfaction with some employers who couldn't care less for security or course requirements. I've got a feeling like the issue is often with the bosses and not with the instructors themselves.
I did my CCR air diluent and decompression course for the AP, I sat down with the instructor and went through what the course standards were, he then advised me what he was going to do in addition… my instructor prided himself on the quality of his courses (and rightly so) rather than just change a battery and an o ring we stripped the unit right down and rebuilt it, including the solenoid (he is an AP TECH) then the skills were drilled and drilled and drilled, flash cards issued at the most inconvenient time.. by the end of the course I was knackered but I was happy I had my monies worth and I was confident in the use of the rebreather.. It is now the bar for All future course, if I have not been hammered with drills and questioned about everything on every dive and any theory…I won’t be happy. Instructors must have some pride in what they do and prove their worth, otherwise they are not worth the time.
Did my OW and Nitrox with James, and yes he will do exactly as he states in this video. Highly recommend taking training with James, had an absolute blast learning from him.
One of my first encounters with training deficiencies: I was on a beach with a group after a resort shore dive. I pulled my hip dump to make sure my BC was empty and about a pint of water squirted out. A girl next to me was horrified, going "Ooh yuck what did you just do? Did you just wet yourself or something?" I explained it was a burning hot day and I didn't want to carry an extra lb of water up to the shop if I didn't have to. She had never been taught about hip dumps, never noticed she had one, never used one and didn't know what it was for. She was PADI AOW.
That’s the good thing about RAID, there is an online sign off (complete skills list of what was to be done) between the instructor and student. The student knows all the skills and what needs to be achieved as well as access to all course standards. Also same for SDI, all course standards are available in the website.
@@connecticutscubaacademy only difference is some students are non-oriented on such course requirements and won’t even mind whereas in RAID the transparency is on the skills sign off system between the instructor and student. system won’t be able to generate certification if student won’t sign off every skills that is required in the course.
I have done ANDP and CCR Liberty Deco Procedures with James. I can confirm he does go through the standards. I adopted this practice in my own teaching and grateful to have absorbed it.
I was also one of James' ANDP students and, yes, we started right out going through the standards page by page, bullet by bullet. I've since become an instructor myself, and I can say without hesitation that having trained under James previously made me a better instructor than I ever would've been (or could've been) otherwise.
James, when are you back on Bonaire. You have to dive Avelo here! Let me know when you come, we will set something up. I work for Dive Friends Bonaire and I am Avelo's representative on Bonaire. Best regards, Duncan
I was amused when you took the time to try and discuss course standards with a DI I was doing some work with, and they had a hard time actually giving you any sort of metrics they could use to qualify or quantify how we were meeting the few standards he could come up with. I commend your willingness to discuss this as an issue and try to hold the industry and practitioners to clear and rigorous standards. I never felt like you were being a jerk about it - it's obvious you love the sport and want to make sure people are successful.
10 years ago, when James did our open water certification course, he indeed explained the course standards, and we did the 300 meter swim with mask and fins. Great and thorough instruction.
I managed to buy the instructor reference library for most of the PADI course catalog from a retired instructor. I wasn't aware that the material was difficult to acquire, I just wanted a physical reference of the online course material. It's a little dated now, but it definitely informed me of the course standards, and the instructor's personal notes were a nice supplement.
I did my Open Water Diver (OWD) certification in Turkey, and I have to honestly say that I wasn't taught properly. I had two instructors: one on the boat with the PADI checklist in hand and another in the water. The young man who was with me in the water wasn't even a proper instructor, as far as I know. What's particularly strange is that the instructor name on my certificate is that of the daughter of the man who was on the boat. The good thing for me was that I had spent six months thoroughly studying the subject in advance, and I had done some introductory dives during that time. Because of this preparation and experience, "I didn't really need an instructor anymore", as I could perform all the exercises without any problems. At some points, it was even noted that I had better buoyancy than the man who was in the water with me... The whole experience was quite strange, and I definitely wouldn't do it again. In the end, everything turned out fine, but it could have gone differently. Edit: Also I was never ask to prove, that I could swim the distance at all or anything like that. Nobody tested my swimming skills at any point.
I have been following Divers Ready since 2020 and have found it to be a great resource in my diving. I have since become an SDI open water dive instructor and have applied many things I have learned from James. My very favorite and number one on the top of my list is never place the students in their knees, always neutrally buoyant. As far as the swimming skills also as US Masters swim coach I hold high standards on the swim test for beginners and professionals, and have turned away students for their inability to properly complete this of the most important skills. Thank you James for holding everyone to a higher standard.
Goodness your description of the courses with all their grammar issues, spelling and math errors was fantastic. I actually have always checked the course standards for all my courses before I signed up for the course… well, since I stopped training with PADI. I use that to also check myself if I feel like I am up to snuff to even take the course. My favorite tec instructor also uses the standards, but as a minimum. He and I are both slightly deranged and enjoy finding what my true breaking point is during skills, and he always plans extra dives to work on skills, or have fun dives after course completion.
What I really like about this channel as I read the comments, is almost all the followers are dive professionals or at least experienced divers. Compaired to one of the other channels were its almost all non divers commenting on things they know nothing about.
I love that you’re sharing this! I do the same thing, and ask my students to hold me accountable! …I’m not perfect. Before I even collect any money I send the standards to students to review a head of time so they know what to expect
I'm done with the e-learning and the confined dives in the swimming pool. Open water this weekend. The instructor was in a hurry to get the confined dives done in one day. There were only two students, so he covered everything and ensured we understood. However, I would have liked more repetition to engrain the skills into my brain more. Also, he had us do the float, but not the swim. He did not explain why, but I am sure it had to do with time constraints as James mentioned in the video. We are both good swimmers, but he should have had us practice the skills. I will hold him much more accountable this weekend.
One note: the SSI Training Standards for Scuba courses, Extended Range courses, Freediving courses, and also Training Centers are all freely available on the app, which requires a simple registration - no course purchase needed. Why they don't make those standards freely available on their webiste is beyond me though!
Okay i 100% agree with you. Wished I had known this 10 years or so ago. I am a PADI instructor. What a shock during Divemaster training to learn that I had not completed or even understood what I was suppose to have during my Open Water Certification and I was well over a hundred dives by then. In review of the PADI standards I barely received a resort course standards if really that in Mexico and yet received OW diver Cert. I was way behind on everything during the PADI Divemaster training on just about everything in the water. I had brought the lack of comfort to the two dive shops that I dealt with just after the OW. Interesting is they assumed I received the full training and was just worried. When in reality I was not properly trained to start with. The Mexico original DM at the pool just left me in the pool to play with the equipment for over an hour while he was gone. Prior to this his review of the basic tasks was completed with him sitting on the pool edge with me doing the task in four feet of water beneath him sitting on the pool edge. No swim test at all every except within a pool that was very small without my mask on. I was on my four OW dive and another dive instructor from the states was observing and he even stated you need more or better training. sad that this instructor did not turn in the instructor and divemaster that was teaching me into PADI. Note I never did a open water with the instructor only with the divemaster. So delete just about everything your required to perform under water. Like was is a CESA, nope did not do it. SO YES, ALL THE AGENCIES SHOULD SHOW THE REQUIREMENTS. When I do teach I go through everything with my students.
Agency standards are so low for most certifications. I just finished my AN/DP with Barry Shively up here in the panhandle and rightly so, he required a lot more than the “standards” called for. To your point on the swim, it took me all summer in the pool to get my swim time down for Divemaster and I get a little upset when I hear that people were just signed off! Seriously! I had to work my butt off (literally) to pass, that was with Southern Ocean Sports, another great dive shop and instructor.
If you are interested - Look up "Total Immersion". It's a book that is kind of dense to read, but the videos all over youtube are much better at explaining how. The swim portion of DM wasn't hard for me as I used the Total Immersion program to train for a triathlon a few years before I did DM. I have always been a competent swimmer, but being leg heavy in the water and not particularly "floaty" I always had a hard time swimming longer distances. I did do a mile swim back when I was a boy scout and that was really hard! Now I could do it with much less stress.
I've taken Advanced Nitrox, Deco Procedures, Advanced Wreck, and CCR Mod 1/Air Dil Deco on the Liberty with James. Will gladly confirm that a mandatory part of the course is to sit down with the requirements and how we're going to exceed pretty much every single one.
Only thing I feel my wife and I didnt get enough training with was weighing and boyuancy. We were definitely over weighted in the pool sessions and check dives at the spring and boyuancy was a major issue. Fast forward two months and we went to the Philippines and did our first ocean dives and both ended up using 2-4lbs less weight each in saltwater and boyuancy was not a problem at all after the first dive. I know it probably makes things easier on an instructor having students overweighted but it killed my confidence knowing we were going to the Coral triangle and worried I was going to crash into the reef. Luckily we had an amazing guide that took the time to make sure we were weighted properly and gave us some pointers on finning and trim the dives were incredible.
Thanks for the video James! As a student, you're in a vulnerable position. You've already invested money in the course, and your successful completion hinges on the instructor's evaluation. Additionally, there's a social aspect to consider. Challenging the instructor's authority could potentially create an uncomfortable learning environment.
Not really, when buying a car people look at all the specs then choose a make and model then shop for price. They don't just purchase then do all the rest. The same goes for a scuba course. A educated customer is extremely important as it weeds out the instructors or diveshop who are willing to cut corners. Although James has issues with the agencies , it is simple you train the people to the best of your ability but that does not mean they will apply what they have learned hence agencies have to have some coverage. Can you imagine if the DMV were responsible for the actions of every driver they issue a license to.
How do our students "know" what they are supposed to be learning during their course? It's easy. We literally provide them the agency standards directly from the S&P so they can see it, and THEN we show them all the additional requirements our company adds to those baseline standards. They literally get to see up-front. At the end, we go over everything on a checklist and they get to verify they were indeed held to OUR standard. "Exceeding "the standard" is OUR "standard" here at PDC.
This is unfortunate and very true. I didn’t realize how poor my training was until I took a cave diving course with one of the former NSS CDS training directors. Looking back, it was appalling that I paid money for that garbage.
This was the thing i found interesting Having received most of my training from SSI, a few PADI courses, when i took my first TDI course, it's right there, a numbered, or bulleted list.
It is true that PADI does not have the details published, but once you purchase the course (open water) you have all the standards available, as well as the detailed exercises that the instructor will require you to pass. I just completed the open water with them, my instructor followed everything to the letter, even consulting a sheet with all the exercises listed, I suppose each center is different, in my case, the experience has been very good. I don't think it's that important to publish these details for an open water in advance, since you most likely don't know how to dive, so you won't know whether the exercises are simple or complex. For more advanced certifications, it may make sense.
Doing my OW next week… I’m already nervous - I’ve researched the school, but what more can I do? You are TOTALLY RELIANT on the quality of instructor. I’ve already booked further training, with another school/ instructor, just in case. It’s a bloody minefield.
At this point I wouldn't worry too much. Go take your course next week. Study the training materials with an appropriate amount of effort for your learning style. Ask questions if you don't understand something - don't worry about appearing foolish for not understanding since many likely won't understand. Going from one instructor to the next can be good for the student. HOWEVER, I caution against buying into the instructor's specific way of doing things. Start by following and doing what you are instructed to do. Take your time to learn the skills. Do things the way the instructor wants them to be done (assuming it's not dangerous). Then over time and with experience you can adapt to what you find works well for you. There really is some wiggle room in how you perform many of the skills. But some people are just so set in their ways that they are inflexible with their students. Rarely, but unfortunately it does happen, they will even denigrate your previous instructor if they do it differently. Take it all in stride, do things the way your instructor explains it, learn from it, then adapt later after you have gained experience. Last piece of advice - have fun! Remember that this is still a hobby for most people! Enjoy your time underwater!
SSI standards for all the courses, including Tec are freely available in SSI app under my courses section. No need to buy course for gaining standards.
James, I have taken a bunch of courses never done a swim test, guess they just assume i can swim. Im not a fan of the way this industry is run at all. Most of the time i know the meterial better than the instructor anyway, but need to jump through the hoops anyway.
SSI you can enroll in the course theoretical for free, you get the whole theoretical online for free, you can make the complete e-learning before you have to pay
Brilliant video as always. On the subject of swimming and being able to swim in 200 m, there is something that might encourage certain individuals to do it, besides for a scuba course. Since 1934 the Swedish Swimers Covenant together with the Swedish Life Rescue Society (1898) have made a number of different pins/badges to promot swimming and swimming skills. The most popular badge is "Simborgarmärket" (combination of swimmer and citizen). The criteria for that badge is to swim 200 meters nonstop, using any stroke. Some people collect this badge since it changes colours each year. 08:25....wow. Sounds just Hilarious.
Standards are important, but not everything. Far too many instructors simply regurgitate a mindless tick list of standards without actually creating competent divers. Standards only work if combined with an objective definition of student performance (i.e. 'mastery'). Students bumbling through a given skill once or twice does not ensure learning and retention. Very, very few instructors invest the time to actually drill skills to a persistently reliable level. Similarly, standards are ineffective if not written with enough specificity to prevent downwards interpretation. I have seen instructors interpret vaguely written standards to the point of utter meaninglessness. Lastly, in continued education, it seems normalized for instructors to entirely disregard prerequisites competencies (not certifications) for courses. The most common general standards violation is the neglect of pre-course skills assessments. Students progress from course to course with fundamental skill deficits remaining unaddressed.
Dive raid has all standards available for students for free, once you’ve logged in. Also all course materials are freely available to ready for all. Really leading the e-learning way forward in my view
I had an awful experience like this during my advanced open water course. The instructor wasn’t paying attention half of the class. During my underwater navigation exercise, I came up and asked the instructor how close I got to the buoy (he was suppose to be watching our bubbles at the surface, because standards say you have to get within 5 ft.) and he responds “I don’t know. I wasn’t paying attention.” I was speechless.
@@TomMontuori-g8f And the diving industry being like any orher business, they cant afford failing half of thier clients because they are poor swimmers 😐
Some instructors maybe cut some corners to issue as many certifications as possible and also having happy clients (who will become poor subs in the future....).... That's bad. I realised that my instructor was doing it, but realised many years after the course (rescue.....) and i'm studying by myself and having more courses (from other instructors of course) to archive the standards i was supposed to get from him....
I had a friend tell me the other day, a PADI instructor for her open water only had her for a few skills in the pool, and then only ONE open water dive.
I thought agencies didn't want clients to know the standards because then they do not know if they have been breached. I was not happy with my PADI OW course it it is very hard to find out what standards were breached and instructors tell me different things. Maybe you can give me the difinative answer. (It was about 5 years ago so too late to report now) 1. As one of the first to arrive for my confined water I was asked to help bring equipemt into the pool, by the time this was finished and I was changed the others were nearing the end of the 200m swim I did notice the others were treading water as I swam but when I finished the 200m we went straight into scuba skills. I found out after qualification that this was a breach. 2. We did not use drysuits in the pool, before the open water we were told how to put air in and out of them and how to swim in a U if were got inverted there was no practical training until the start of our open water dive. While some instructors have told me there is nothing wrong with this I have been told this is a breach because if drysuits are used for the OW students need to practice with them in confined water first. I have also been told that if OW dives are to be done with drysuits it should include the full drysuit course (in my nievety when I booked I thought "all your OW dives will be done in the comfort of a drysuit" meant I would be qualified to dive in a drysuit). There again maybe there was no breach at all. 3. My first OW dive was about three minutes long, we went down to about 8m I signalled out of air took my instructors octopus and we ascended to the surface. We immediately did my second open water dive (without getting in the boat) where we did a variety of skills the second dive was about 40 minutes. I have been told this was a breach because each dive must be at least 20 minutes (or at least 10 minutes or at least 30 minutes), I have also been told that it was a breach because I need to set up my equipment before every dive (which I obviously didn't do before the second dive) and that their was no breach at all as the average length of all my OW dives was over 20 min. 4. 3rd and 4th OW water the same routine, 3rd dive was a couple of minutes doing CESA fourth dive was about 40 min with very littel specific skill tests as they had nearly all been done on dive 2 (at least that is what I was told) same worries about breaching standards applies. 5. After my 4th OW dive I was surprised to be told I had passed and was fully qualified to go down to 18m in the North Sea with one of my fellow students, I think that would have been suicidal instead I joined a BSAC club and did all my dives with an instructor or dive leader (DM) until I had a basic level of competance.
1. In 25 years of teaching, I've met only a few instructors who were also qualified to teach swimming. I've never met one qualified to teach someone to safely swim in the various open water conditions they will encounter while scuba diving. If you aren't qualified to teach it, you're not qualified to administer a test on it.
That's a bad interpretation! I am not very good at teaching my kids how to swim, though I can swim for miles (triathlon training). Ironically I do a lot better at teaching scuba than swimming to youth. Even still, I can sit there and watch to see if people actually DO snorkel for 300m. Remember that for OW it's swim OR snorkel. Another reason your perspective is flawed is that it's difficult to determine what "qualified" means! I had college professors that really knew their stuff, but were terrible, terrible instructors. This is true especially at the elementary and secondary level of education. Teachers and administrators are often proctors for exams that they have no business teaching. Does this mean they don't know how to administer the exam? I would think through your opinion on this a little more.
I have never understood the whole point of the 200M swim test. Wouldn't you be able to tell if a student could swim after 20M?? I mean isn't that the point of the BCD and the oral inflation training? I guess in a perfect storm you could technically run out of air and puncture your BCD and have to ditch everything and swim for it but what's the odds of that? As always, love the videos James!!
I know that my teacher didn't cut corners, because with the agency I follow,I have to cross-check the skills I've been taught and fill the YES thick box on each individual skills, then my teacher has to, them somebody else from the dive center who's also rated by the agency. And the e-course is free. And I was under the impression that CMAS is the biggest.
My PADI AOW was a complete joke…standards? at one point he had us do a summersault underwater….he also held hands with a diver so they could go down…😂😢 not safe.
Who interprets if a student meets minimum requirements? What does minimum requirements real mean ? It , to the best of my knowledge, mean mastery , recall or practice. What then is the value of " minimum requirements " ?
Whether or not the student meets the minimum requirements is determined by the instructor. They are required by the agency to demonstrate and ensure the students can execute the skills. There have been bad instructors who will check students off even if they haven't completed them and/or are taking a while to get them down. The minimum requirements are developed by the World Recreational Scuba Training Council ( which is made up of the International Recognized Training Agencies i.e PADI, SDI, SSi, NAUI, and others).Minimum in this instance generally refers to that the instructor has to witness you perform the skill correctly at least one time. The good instructors will have you repeatedly perform the skills to help develop your confidence and muscle memory. That way when/if you need to use them it's kind of second nature at that point. This isn't like riding a bike though. You will need to practice to maintain your skills.
PADI is just there to collect money. I have informed them about my poorly taught AOW course and they never did anything. My deep dive course was 9 minutes - down to 85’ and immediately back to the surface. My navigation and search and recovery were executed in one dive where via was 5’ and I barely navigated a 10 kick cycle square, and the altitude dive did not exist. I learned more from the e book than the instructors. I would never recommend anyone to the dive shop I used, they just want money. Always do your research beforehand!!
I am with you 100% on reviewing standards with the student. However, I don’t understand why you think that being able to access the standards ahead of time is of any use to a prospective student (other than the obvious - that’s what the agency whose materials you sell does that others do not). Sure, one may read and even understand that you’re not supposed to go past 40 feet or have more than a certain number of students depending upon how many assistant instructors there are, but a lot of what is in the standards won’t make sense until you get into the course. What does it mean to complete the academic materials? You won’t know that until you actually get the materials, see what is in them, see that there are quizzes (or not), etc. What does it mean to complete all pool sessions? Again you’re not going to know that there are mask drills, and reg drills, and emergency drills - let alone what constitutes proficiency in each skill - until you get the materials and start doing pool sessions and skills. As long as the standards are available to the student once they sign up for the course, and the instructor is willing to discuss and go over them, I don’t see a great deal of utility in having them publicly available for review prior to signing up for a course. The real value for a student diver in this video is the idea of finding an instructor who goes over the standards each and every time - not having them available on line to every Tom, Dick, and Harry attorney who is looking for information to put into a complaint.
I agree with respect to the first or first two basic courses like OWD and AOWD. But further down the road, when I was choosing with which agency I want to do Advanced Nitrox and/or Decompression Procedures (and yes, instructor is more important than agency, but still), I did want to know what I would learn and what requirements I would have to fulfill during the course. And it is regrettable, that it is essentially only TDI that offers this level of transparency.
I ran into something similar when I was trying to evaluate different training agencies that don't necessarily follow the exact same training format. In my case, I was trying to understand how the volume of training from the entry level GUE course compared for duration and skills when compared to a PADI/SSI (since those were my local dive shop affiliations). I landed on reviewing the SDI standards because as James ran into, PDAI and SSI don't publish their standards, unlike SDI and GUE.
@@M.M.M.M.M890 I have been fortunate in that other than my advanced, I have taken everything from one instructor - a guy I already knew and trusted before I decided to get certified. Prior to going pro (and when you do that with SSI they give you access to all the standards and a lot of the more common electronic course materials), if I had a question about the next course I would just ask him and get the answer. Of course, now that I am an AI if I ask a standards question, I get a smart-ass “have you looked at the standards?” And I get this because as a pro he taught me that I have to be able to know where to find the answers in the standards.
As someone who has taking hundreds of course throughout different fields, it seems SCUBA is one of those few industries that closeholds standards prior to purchase. During HAZMAT training, we were given the the price and standards when we reached out to different vendors. The same for aviation related courses, except those standards are free on the FAA website. So it makes sense to provide them to a prospective student who wants to see what they’re going to learn. An example would be the significant number of students I had suddenly not want to do OW once they learned they had to remove their mask and breath underwater (PADI course). Having the standards prior to purchase versus hiding them away can also give students a sense of control and peace versus loss of control and now financial obligated to finish.
@@AndrewS-ht3uo With respect to your example (remove the mask), at least with SSI you are not going to really find that in the standards. That’s what the course materials (including videos) are for. Those are hidden until you buy the relevant course. If that is the issue that will stop someone from scuba diving, then it really isn’t visibility of the standards that you are advocating for, but rather a listing of the skills that require mastery with a brief description of each.
Oh buddy... If only all the dive centers were like you... My reality is that I see some dive centers doing an Open Water in... 2 days only. I let you imagine what kind of divers they produce...
I always do the swim tests in the pool with a lifeguard on deck in an 25 or 50 yard pool. Reason is that more than half of DM and instructors in training I have worked with often times can barely meet the swim standards. In my book swim standards are the to test your ability and stamina to swim on the surface where most will be if something goes wrong during a dive. If the DM or instructor can barely swim how are they supposed to help a student.
Not only has this pointed out a shortcoming of the major scuba training agencies, it also suggests they see freediving as effectively a throw away instead of an entirely separate body of knowledge. Lame.
My teacher didn't allow floating for 10 minutes you must tread. Half the class failed...........there were just 4 people though. So me and one other person passed; excluding the firefighters. The 2 people that didn't wasted a grand. They can return whenever within the year to try again though. I was the doofus crashing into the bottom because i wasn't adding air fast enough or the right amounts and i was the airhog of the group. I have yet to do my checkout dives i've just done a bit of pool stuff.
Those two should have reported the instructor. He/she doesn't have the right to require one or the other. If they could have floated for 10 minutes, they would have met the standard as put forward by the RSTC. That was wrong.
@@sharkymarky7251 one person couldn't even pass the swim test. The other person managed to do the treading but didn't feel comfortable in the water and was constantly going back to the surface when the instructor was trying to instruct. So I guess she passed the testing but wasn't confident underwater. The other person was her husband that failed. But she quit when she found she was uncomfortable underwater. So i guess i should've put quit instead of failed. But in my opinion he should make the testing as hard as possible. Less likely for your students to die when they are actually diving.
I already got my open water and logged 8 dives but still i am still skeptic about my training cuz when I did my open water it was fast in way that I think that it gave me sense of false confidence my question if I found a good dive instructor ( which actually happened 2 months ago) do you think that I should repeat my open water ?
You might not need to repeat it necessarily, If you're feeling nervous about then training then a good idea would be too take an inactive/refresher course or just work with a divemaster to practice and perfect your skills. Either one of those will be considerably less expensive. Just make sure you find an instructor who will work well with you. What I mean by that is someone who will have you go through the skills multiple times to develop muscle memory and will be patient with you.
Question: With this information in mind, is there any way to transfer/convert an existing cert between training standards? I.e. I have open water with PADI and want to start taking SDI courses, but don't want to pay for their version of the open water cert just to take the advanced ones.
no need to convert any courses. all organizations are part of WRSTC which actually sets the base standards, hence you can do Padi Open Water, SSI Advanced and RAID Rescue if you wanted to
You don't. All major agencies recognize each other certifications toward the prerequisites for the next level of certification. So if you want to take SDI's Advanced Adventurer course you can do so with a PADI OWD certification. The only exceptions to this are professional level courses and specialty courses counted toward a Master Diver recognition level, so if you want a MSD you need to take the 4-5 specialty courses with that specific agency.
Advanced open water certification is a waste of time and money. Peak buoyancy should be a class in open water and the deep dives should be moved to open water training. So yes, we're being cheated paying for multiple "fluff" dives just so PADI can pitch other pointless certs. It's all marketing.
I have a question that is not topic related I was told I can't cross over between agencies for instant I have a Padi open water I was considering jumping to SSI for deep dive and I was told I won't be recognized as deep diver if I am going with Padi agency and I should stick to my Padi as It's more recognized is that true?
Hope you get a good answer. I was moving from CMAS to Padi and was told they would not recognize my previous logged dives. Later I moved to SDI and no issues. Sometimes it is the one instructor who is a nitwit
I dont know about moving PADI -> SSI, but I would guess that all agency standards allow for certifications from other agencies. Being a PADI instructor myself (yeah, I know ...) I looked up the requirements for the deep dive specialty. It says in the standards for requirements the student has to meet something like this: "Need to be a Padi adventure diver oder advanced open water diver or posess a qualifying certification of another agency" (translated from the german version). So if some dive school tells you they wont accept certifications from different agencies, my guess would be that the school wants to scam you and that is not backed by the agencies standard. (disclaimer: there might be individual reasons for specific cases I am not aware of).
Whoever told you that doesn’t know what they are talking about or is trying to con you into taking their class. If you have a deep card from PADI, SSI, SDI, TDI, M-O-U-S-E, it doesn’t matter to the dive operator so long as it is a recognized training agency. I’m an SSI assistant instructor. I know for a fact that not only does SSI recognize other agency certifications for purposes of course prerequisites (the only exception being the instructor track which, like every other agency I’m aware of requires cross over training), SSI will allow your dive center to upload the other agency certs into the SSI app so you will have an electronic “card” from your agency in that app to show whoever needs to see it. 2 weeks ago I sat and watched our shop owner do it for a student that I taught a skills update course to. As someone else said…pick the instructor not the agency. To that I’ll add support your local dive shop whenever possible.
Hence the absolute necessity of informed customers. Which by the way needs to include the reality that scuba is more than just sticking your head in water but that the activity is inherently dangerous requiring more than a day's training. However we have had numerous potential customers argue about the course duration as they would prefer it be done quickly to fit in with their ill planned trip. So again customer education weeds out those instructors diveshops who are willing to cut corners.
I'm a PADI and SDI instructor - unfortunately we're bound by what the shop and business owner wants us to do. One of the shops I work with makes us omit the swim/float and CESA skill in the pool altogether - because they take too long and he doesn't want to pay for extra time in the pool. During winter we have even less time to get through confined water skills because the pool isn't open as long and they refuse to let us start earlier so we don't interfere with the recreational divers. He was also talking about us ditching the CESA in open water. A lot of us aren't big fans of the skill for various reasons, but while it's in the course standards we need to do it and he was told that in no uncertain circumstances.
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I was an SSI instructor. When going through the course, my instructor told me that I spend too much time with my students. He said no more than 20 minutes a chapter. I told him that it's my name going on their card. I'll spend as much time as they need.
Good for you.
🥳 yep
When I used to work for a shop I had the same experience and them wanting me to pass students who hadn't completed dives/skills. You did the right thing, at the end of the day the instructor will be liable.
Oh man, I’m happy I’m independent, I spend quite some time before the dives going through various questions and deep diving into questions from my students and in the end I think we are all having a good time and they become good divers.
As requested: James was my instructor for the TDI Advanced Nitrox + Deco Procedures courses, and as he says, the first thing we did (after being treated to a great cup of fresh coffee!) was review and sign all the legal paperwork, then a very thorough item by item review of the course standards. We reviewed them again on the last day of the course, just to ensure we had covered everything (we had, and more!). I’m happy to assert that with James as your instructor, you get more than your money’s worth. As a recreational dive professional, I appreciate James’ efforts to help us all be better divers, and dive professionals!
One thing I like about SSI- All course standards are available to everyone in the free app
SDI/TDI does the same.
As someone who is in the process as relearning to dive with GUE, I know they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea but they are very up front about standards (all publicly available) and you aren’t issued your cert until you complete a quality control form about the course
GUE also takes those quality control forms seriously. So much as a single one comes back negative and the quality team is investigating. Seems extreme, but the standardization of quality with instruction in GUE is impressive.
Very accurate about not being everyone’s cup of tea.
Just got a new student because of this video. Thanks!
He evaluated the training he was receiving and decided it wasn’t all that he wanted to get out of it and decided to talk to me about how I conduct classes.
Im only 4 minutes into this and as someone who runs a dive club and is struggling a lot right now.. Thank you. Standards are easy to not enforce especially if there's a pre-existing culture of giving people the benefit of the doubt so to not disappoint and "bring more people into diving". It simply leads to awkward conversations you described where students feel the instructor has failed them, rather than the student having failed the standards and therefore not being awarded.
I did my AOW with Padi in the Bahamas and the instructor always told me ahead of time what was expected for each specialty dive by reading the cards PADI prepared for each specialty. Everything was well done. When I did my PADI OW in Cancun before that, the instructor was also very clear about the expectations and standards and very safety oriented. We've remained good friends and have spoken a few times over the years of his dissatisfaction with some employers who couldn't care less for security or course requirements. I've got a feeling like the issue is often with the bosses and not with the instructors themselves.
I did my CCR air diluent and decompression course for the AP, I sat down with the instructor and went through what the course standards were, he then advised me what he was going to do in addition… my instructor prided himself on the quality of his courses (and rightly so) rather than just change a battery and an o ring we stripped the unit right down and rebuilt it, including the solenoid (he is an AP TECH) then the skills were drilled and drilled and drilled, flash cards issued at the most inconvenient time.. by the end of the course I was knackered but I was happy I had my monies worth and I was confident in the use of the rebreather..
It is now the bar for All future course, if I have not been hammered with drills and questioned about everything on every dive and any theory…I won’t be happy. Instructors must have some pride in what they do and prove their worth, otherwise they are not worth the time.
Did my OW and Nitrox with James, and yes he will do exactly as he states in this video. Highly recommend taking training with James, had an absolute blast learning from him.
One of my first encounters with training deficiencies: I was on a beach with a group after a resort shore dive. I pulled my hip dump to make sure my BC was empty and about a pint of water squirted out. A girl next to me was horrified, going "Ooh yuck what did you just do? Did you just wet yourself or something?" I explained it was a burning hot day and I didn't want to carry an extra lb of water up to the shop if I didn't have to. She had never been taught about hip dumps, never noticed she had one, never used one and didn't know what it was for. She was PADI AOW.
That wasn't because of PADI. That was just a lazy instructor.
Once you have the SSI app (free), you can go to course’s and scroll to the bottom and all the standards are there.
Capture’s my position precisely. We have an uphill battle in this industry but know you have allies in this way of thinking.
That’s the good thing about RAID, there is an online sign off (complete skills list of what was to be done) between the instructor and student. The student knows all the skills and what needs to be achieved as well as access to all course standards.
Also same for SDI, all course standards are available in the website.
SDI does the same right on their website.
@@connecticutscubaacademy only difference is some students are non-oriented on such course requirements and won’t even mind whereas in RAID the transparency is on the skills sign off system between the instructor and student. system won’t be able to generate certification if student won’t sign off every skills that is required in the course.
This is quite the perfect timing when I'm taking my Instructor exam the coming weekend
I have done ANDP and CCR Liberty Deco Procedures with James. I can confirm he does go through the standards. I adopted this practice in my own teaching and grateful to have absorbed it.
I was also one of James' ANDP students and, yes, we started right out going through the standards page by page, bullet by bullet. I've since become an instructor myself, and I can say without hesitation that having trained under James previously made me a better instructor than I ever would've been (or could've been) otherwise.
Another great and honest video! Thanks
James, when are you back on Bonaire. You have to dive Avelo here! Let me know when you come, we will set something up. I work for Dive Friends Bonaire and I am Avelo's representative on Bonaire. Best regards, Duncan
I was amused when you took the time to try and discuss course standards with a DI I was doing some work with, and they had a hard time actually giving you any sort of metrics they could use to qualify or quantify how we were meeting the few standards he could come up with.
I commend your willingness to discuss this as an issue and try to hold the industry and practitioners to clear and rigorous standards. I never felt like you were being a jerk about it - it's obvious you love the sport and want to make sure people are successful.
10 years ago, when James did our open water certification course, he indeed explained the course standards, and we did the 300 meter swim with mask and fins. Great and thorough instruction.
I managed to buy the instructor reference library for most of the PADI course catalog from a retired instructor. I wasn't aware that the material was difficult to acquire, I just wanted a physical reference of the online course material.
It's a little dated now, but it definitely informed me of the course standards, and the instructor's personal notes were a nice supplement.
I did my Open Water Diver (OWD) certification in Turkey, and I have to honestly say that I wasn't taught properly. I had two instructors: one on the boat with the PADI checklist in hand and another in the water. The young man who was with me in the water wasn't even a proper instructor, as far as I know. What's particularly strange is that the instructor name on my certificate is that of the daughter of the man who was on the boat.
The good thing for me was that I had spent six months thoroughly studying the subject in advance, and I had done some introductory dives during that time. Because of this preparation and experience, "I didn't really need an instructor anymore", as I could perform all the exercises without any problems. At some points, it was even noted that I had better buoyancy than the man who was in the water with me... The whole experience was quite strange, and I definitely wouldn't do it again. In the end, everything turned out fine, but it could have gone differently.
Edit: Also I was never ask to prove, that I could swim the distance at all or anything like that. Nobody tested my swimming skills at any point.
I have been following Divers Ready since 2020 and have found it to be a great resource in my diving. I have since become an SDI open water dive instructor and have applied many things I have learned from James. My very favorite and number one on the top of my list is never place the students in their knees, always neutrally buoyant.
As far as the swimming skills also as US Masters swim coach I hold high standards on the swim test for beginners and professionals, and have turned away students for their inability to properly complete this of the most important skills.
Thank you James for holding everyone to a higher standard.
Goodness your description of the courses with all their grammar issues, spelling and math errors was fantastic. I actually have always checked the course standards for all my courses before I signed up for the course… well, since I stopped training with PADI. I use that to also check myself if I feel like I am up to snuff to even take the course. My favorite tec instructor also uses the standards, but as a minimum. He and I are both slightly deranged and enjoy finding what my true breaking point is during skills, and he always plans extra dives to work on skills, or have fun dives after course completion.
Exactly what I did for my Intro to Tech and Wreck courses.
What I really like about this channel as I read the comments, is almost all the followers are dive professionals or at least experienced divers. Compaired to one of the other channels were its almost all non divers commenting on things they know nothing about.
I love that you’re sharing this! I do the same thing, and ask my students to hold me accountable! …I’m not perfect. Before I even collect any money I send the standards to students to review a head of time so they know what to expect
My instructor didn't even have me do the swim test at all.
I'm done with the e-learning and the confined dives in the swimming pool. Open water this weekend. The instructor was in a hurry to get the confined dives done in one day. There were only two students, so he covered everything and ensured we understood. However, I would have liked more repetition to engrain the skills into my brain more. Also, he had us do the float, but not the swim. He did not explain why, but I am sure it had to do with time constraints as James mentioned in the video. We are both good swimmers, but he should have had us practice the skills. I will hold him much more accountable this weekend.
One note: the SSI Training Standards for Scuba courses, Extended Range courses, Freediving courses, and also Training Centers are all freely available on the app, which requires a simple registration - no course purchase needed.
Why they don't make those standards freely available on their webiste is beyond me though!
Okay i 100% agree with you. Wished I had known this 10 years or so ago. I am a PADI instructor. What a shock during Divemaster training to learn that I had not completed or even understood what I was suppose to have during my Open Water Certification and I was well over a hundred dives by then. In review of the PADI standards I barely received a resort course standards if really that in Mexico and yet received OW diver Cert. I was way behind on everything during the PADI Divemaster training on just about everything in the water. I had brought the lack of comfort to the two dive shops that I dealt with just after the OW. Interesting is they assumed I received the full training and was just worried. When in reality I was not properly trained to start with. The Mexico original DM at the pool just left me in the pool to play with the equipment for over an hour while he was gone. Prior to this his review of the basic tasks was completed with him sitting on the pool edge with me doing the task in four feet of water beneath him sitting on the pool edge. No swim test at all every except within a pool that was very small without my mask on. I was on my four OW dive and another dive instructor from the states was observing and he even stated you need more or better training. sad that this instructor did not turn in the instructor and divemaster that was teaching me into PADI. Note I never did a open water with the instructor only with the divemaster. So delete just about everything your required to perform under water. Like was is a CESA, nope did not do it. SO YES, ALL THE AGENCIES SHOULD SHOW THE REQUIREMENTS. When I do teach I go through everything with my students.
Agency standards are so low for most certifications. I just finished my AN/DP with Barry Shively up here in the panhandle and rightly so, he required a lot more than the “standards” called for.
To your point on the swim, it took me all summer in the pool to get my swim time down for Divemaster and I get a little upset when I hear that people were just signed off! Seriously! I had to work my butt off (literally) to pass, that was with Southern Ocean Sports, another great dive shop and instructor.
If you are interested - Look up "Total Immersion". It's a book that is kind of dense to read, but the videos all over youtube are much better at explaining how. The swim portion of DM wasn't hard for me as I used the Total Immersion program to train for a triathlon a few years before I did DM. I have always been a competent swimmer, but being leg heavy in the water and not particularly "floaty" I always had a hard time swimming longer distances. I did do a mile swim back when I was a boy scout and that was really hard! Now I could do it with much less stress.
I've taken Advanced Nitrox, Deco Procedures, Advanced Wreck, and CCR Mod 1/Air Dil Deco on the Liberty with James. Will gladly confirm that a mandatory part of the course is to sit down with the requirements and how we're going to exceed pretty much every single one.
Only thing I feel my wife and I didnt get enough training with was weighing and boyuancy. We were definitely over weighted in the pool sessions and check dives at the spring and boyuancy was a major issue. Fast forward two months and we went to the Philippines and did our first ocean dives and both ended up using 2-4lbs less weight each in saltwater and boyuancy was not a problem at all after the first dive. I know it probably makes things easier on an instructor having students overweighted but it killed my confidence knowing we were going to the Coral triangle and worried I was going to crash into the reef. Luckily we had an amazing guide that took the time to make sure we were weighted properly and gave us some pointers on finning and trim the dives were incredible.
Thanks for the video James!
As a student, you're in a vulnerable position. You've already invested money in the course, and your successful completion hinges on the instructor's evaluation. Additionally, there's a social aspect to consider. Challenging the instructor's authority could potentially create an uncomfortable learning environment.
Not really, when buying a car people look at all the specs then choose a make and model then shop for price. They don't just purchase then do all the rest. The same goes for a scuba course. A educated customer is extremely important as it weeds out the instructors or diveshop who are willing to cut corners. Although James has issues with the agencies , it is simple you train the people to the best of your ability but that does not mean they will apply what they have learned hence agencies have to have some coverage. Can you imagine if the DMV were responsible for the actions of every driver they issue a license to.
How do our students "know" what they are supposed to be learning during their course? It's easy. We literally provide them the agency standards directly from the S&P so they can see it, and THEN we show them all the additional requirements our company adds to those baseline standards. They literally get to see up-front. At the end, we go over everything on a checklist and they get to verify they were indeed held to OUR standard. "Exceeding "the standard" is OUR "standard" here at PDC.
This is unfortunate and very true. I didn’t realize how poor my training was until I took a cave diving course with one of the former NSS CDS training directors.
Looking back, it was appalling that I paid money for that garbage.
This was the thing i found interesting
Having received most of my training from SSI, a few PADI courses, when i took my first TDI course, it's right there, a numbered, or bulleted list.
It is true that PADI does not have the details published, but once you purchase the course (open water) you have all the standards available, as well as the detailed exercises that the instructor will require you to pass.
I just completed the open water with them, my instructor followed everything to the letter, even consulting a sheet with all the exercises listed, I suppose each center is different, in my case, the experience has been very good.
I don't think it's that important to publish these details for an open water in advance, since you most likely don't know how to dive, so you won't know whether the exercises are simple or complex. For more advanced certifications, it may make sense.
I've got my openwater course on Thursday, so it will be interesting to see how things compare to this video.
Doing my OW next week…
I’m already nervous - I’ve researched the school, but what more can I do? You are TOTALLY RELIANT on the quality of instructor. I’ve already booked further training, with another school/ instructor, just in case.
It’s a bloody minefield.
At this point I wouldn't worry too much. Go take your course next week. Study the training materials with an appropriate amount of effort for your learning style. Ask questions if you don't understand something - don't worry about appearing foolish for not understanding since many likely won't understand.
Going from one instructor to the next can be good for the student. HOWEVER, I caution against buying into the instructor's specific way of doing things. Start by following and doing what you are instructed to do. Take your time to learn the skills. Do things the way the instructor wants them to be done (assuming it's not dangerous). Then over time and with experience you can adapt to what you find works well for you. There really is some wiggle room in how you perform many of the skills. But some people are just so set in their ways that they are inflexible with their students. Rarely, but unfortunately it does happen, they will even denigrate your previous instructor if they do it differently. Take it all in stride, do things the way your instructor explains it, learn from it, then adapt later after you have gained experience.
Last piece of advice - have fun! Remember that this is still a hobby for most people! Enjoy your time underwater!
@@mgelax excellent, thanks for taking the time to reply.
SSI standards for all the courses, including Tec are freely available in SSI app under my courses section. No need to buy course for gaining standards.
James, I have taken a bunch of courses never done a swim test, guess they just assume i can swim. Im not a fan of the way this industry is run at all. Most of the time i know the meterial better than the instructor anyway, but need to jump through the hoops anyway.
SSI you can enroll in the course theoretical for free, you get the whole theoretical online for free, you can make the complete e-learning before you have to pay
Brilliant video as always.
On the subject of swimming and being able to swim in 200 m, there is something that might encourage certain individuals to do it, besides for a scuba course.
Since 1934 the Swedish Swimers Covenant together with the Swedish Life Rescue Society (1898) have made a number of different pins/badges to promot swimming and swimming skills.
The most popular badge is "Simborgarmärket" (combination of swimmer and citizen). The criteria for that badge is to swim 200 meters nonstop, using any stroke.
Some people collect this badge since it changes colours each year.
08:25....wow. Sounds just Hilarious.
Standards are important, but not everything. Far too many instructors simply regurgitate a mindless tick list of standards without actually creating competent divers.
Standards only work if combined with an objective definition of student performance (i.e. 'mastery'). Students bumbling through a given skill once or twice does not ensure learning and retention. Very, very few instructors invest the time to actually drill skills to a persistently reliable level.
Similarly, standards are ineffective if not written with enough specificity to prevent downwards interpretation. I have seen instructors interpret vaguely written standards to the point of utter meaninglessness.
Lastly, in continued education, it seems normalized for instructors to entirely disregard prerequisites competencies (not certifications) for courses. The most common general standards violation is the neglect of pre-course skills assessments. Students progress from course to course with fundamental skill deficits remaining unaddressed.
Dive raid has all standards available for students for free, once you’ve logged in. Also all course materials are freely available to ready for all. Really leading the e-learning way forward in my view
Who or what is RAID?
I had an awful experience like this during my advanced open water course. The instructor wasn’t paying attention half of the class. During my underwater navigation exercise, I came up and asked the instructor how close I got to the buoy (he was suppose to be watching our bubbles at the surface, because standards say you have to get within 5 ft.) and he responds “I don’t know. I wasn’t paying attention.” I was speechless.
Your instructor wasn’t in the water with you for the exercise?
@@benlangfeld4043 he was, but floating at the surface.
SPOT ON!!!
Hey James, good to see your smiling face again ;) You didn't mention anything about CMAS, what about them?
same as any other agency in terms of WRSTC standards
If you want to apply the standards 100% acurately, you will end up very frustrated in most dive shop aroud the world 🙄
Is a very sad but true statement, especially since the standards are actually minimal standards and are meant to be surpassed.
@@TomMontuori-g8f And the diving industry being like any orher business, they cant afford failing half of thier clients because they are poor swimmers 😐
Some instructors maybe cut some corners to issue as many certifications as possible and also having happy clients (who will become poor subs in the future....).... That's bad. I realised that my instructor was doing it, but realised many years after the course (rescue.....) and i'm studying by myself and having more courses (from other instructors of course) to archive the standards i was supposed to get from him....
I had a friend tell me the other day, a PADI instructor for her open water only had her for a few skills in the pool, and then only ONE open water dive.
Did she not know the course required 4 dives?
I thought agencies didn't want clients to know the standards because then they do not know if they have been breached. I was not happy with my PADI OW course it it is very hard to find out what standards were breached and instructors tell me different things. Maybe you can give me the difinative answer. (It was about 5 years ago so too late to report now)
1. As one of the first to arrive for my confined water I was asked to help bring equipemt into the pool, by the time this was finished and I was changed the others were nearing the end of the 200m swim I did notice the others were treading water as I swam but when I finished the 200m we went straight into scuba skills. I found out after qualification that this was a breach.
2. We did not use drysuits in the pool, before the open water we were told how to put air in and out of them and how to swim in a U if were got inverted there was no practical training until the start of our open water dive. While some instructors have told me there is nothing wrong with this I have been told this is a breach because if drysuits are used for the OW students need to practice with them in confined water first. I have also been told that if OW dives are to be done with drysuits it should include the full drysuit course (in my nievety when I booked I thought "all your OW dives will be done in the comfort of a drysuit" meant I would be qualified to dive in a drysuit). There again maybe there was no breach at all.
3. My first OW dive was about three minutes long, we went down to about 8m I signalled out of air took my instructors octopus and we ascended to the surface. We immediately did my second open water dive (without getting in the boat) where we did a variety of skills the second dive was about 40 minutes. I have been told this was a breach because each dive must be at least 20 minutes (or at least 10 minutes or at least 30 minutes), I have also been told that it was a breach because I need to set up my equipment before every dive (which I obviously didn't do before the second dive) and that their was no breach at all as the average length of all my OW dives was over 20 min.
4. 3rd and 4th OW water the same routine, 3rd dive was a couple of minutes doing CESA fourth dive was about 40 min with very littel specific skill tests as they had nearly all been done on dive 2 (at least that is what I was told) same worries about breaching standards applies.
5. After my 4th OW dive I was surprised to be told I had passed and was fully qualified to go down to 18m in the North Sea with one of my fellow students, I think that would have been suicidal instead I joined a BSAC club and did all my dives with an instructor or dive leader (DM) until I had a basic level of competance.
Touché! Great video!
1. In 25 years of teaching, I've met only a few instructors who were also qualified to teach swimming. I've never met one qualified to teach someone to safely swim in the various open water conditions they will encounter while scuba diving. If you aren't qualified to teach it, you're not qualified to administer a test on it.
That's a bad interpretation! I am not very good at teaching my kids how to swim, though I can swim for miles (triathlon training). Ironically I do a lot better at teaching scuba than swimming to youth. Even still, I can sit there and watch to see if people actually DO snorkel for 300m. Remember that for OW it's swim OR snorkel.
Another reason your perspective is flawed is that it's difficult to determine what "qualified" means! I had college professors that really knew their stuff, but were terrible, terrible instructors. This is true especially at the elementary and secondary level of education. Teachers and administrators are often proctors for exams that they have no business teaching. Does this mean they don't know how to administer the exam? I would think through your opinion on this a little more.
I have never understood the whole point of the 200M swim test. Wouldn't you be able to tell if a student could swim after 20M?? I mean isn't that the point of the BCD and the oral inflation training? I guess in a perfect storm you could technically run out of air and puncture your BCD and have to ditch everything and swim for it but what's the odds of that? As always, love the videos James!!
I know that my teacher didn't cut corners, because with the agency I follow,I have to cross-check the skills I've been taught and fill the YES thick box on each individual skills, then my teacher has to, them somebody else from the dive center who's also rated by the agency. And the e-course is free.
And I was under the impression that CMAS is the biggest.
What agency I think all e-courses should be free
@@wyldwiisel9126 RAID
My PADI AOW was a complete joke…standards? at one point he had us do a summersault underwater….he also held hands with a diver so they could go down…😂😢 not safe.
Great advise
Who interprets if a student meets minimum requirements? What does minimum requirements real mean ? It , to the best of my knowledge, mean mastery , recall or practice. What then is the value of " minimum requirements " ?
Whether or not the student meets the minimum requirements is determined by the instructor. They are required by the agency to demonstrate and ensure the students can execute the skills. There have been bad instructors who will check students off even if they haven't completed them and/or are taking a while to get them down. The minimum requirements are developed by the World Recreational Scuba Training Council ( which is made up of the International Recognized Training Agencies i.e PADI, SDI, SSi, NAUI, and others).Minimum in this instance generally refers to that the instructor has to witness you perform the skill correctly at least one time. The good instructors will have you repeatedly perform the skills to help develop your confidence and muscle memory. That way when/if you need to use them it's kind of second nature at that point. This isn't like riding a bike though. You will need to practice to maintain your skills.
I did advanced open water and nitrox with James. He is accurate with his comment.
I can get the boxes checked or feel competent and confident
What about NAUI
PADI is just there to collect money. I have informed them about my poorly taught AOW course and they never did anything. My deep dive course was 9 minutes - down to 85’ and immediately back to the surface. My navigation and search and recovery were executed in one dive where via was 5’ and I barely navigated a 10 kick cycle square, and the altitude dive did not exist. I learned more from the e book than the instructors. I would never recommend anyone to the dive shop I used, they just want money.
Always do your research beforehand!!
I am with you 100% on reviewing standards with the student. However, I don’t understand why you think that being able to access the standards ahead of time is of any use to a prospective student (other than the obvious - that’s what the agency whose materials you sell does that others do not). Sure, one may read and even understand that you’re not supposed to go past 40 feet or have more than a certain number of students depending upon how many assistant instructors there are, but a lot of what is in the standards won’t make sense until you get into the course. What does it mean to complete the academic materials? You won’t know that until you actually get the materials, see what is in them, see that there are quizzes (or not), etc. What does it mean to complete all pool sessions? Again you’re not going to know that there are mask drills, and reg drills, and emergency drills - let alone what constitutes proficiency in each skill - until you get the materials and start doing pool sessions and skills.
As long as the standards are available to the student once they sign up for the course, and the instructor is willing to discuss and go over them, I don’t see a great deal of utility in having them publicly available for review prior to signing up for a course. The real value for a student diver in this video is the idea of finding an instructor who goes over the standards each and every time - not having them available on line to every Tom, Dick, and Harry attorney who is looking for information to put into a complaint.
I agree with respect to the first or first two basic courses like OWD and AOWD. But further down the road, when I was choosing with which agency I want to do Advanced Nitrox and/or Decompression Procedures (and yes, instructor is more important than agency, but still), I did want to know what I would learn and what requirements I would have to fulfill during the course. And it is regrettable, that it is essentially only TDI that offers this level of transparency.
I ran into something similar when I was trying to evaluate different training agencies that don't necessarily follow the exact same training format. In my case, I was trying to understand how the volume of training from the entry level GUE course compared for duration and skills when compared to a PADI/SSI (since those were my local dive shop affiliations). I landed on reviewing the SDI standards because as James ran into, PDAI and SSI don't publish their standards, unlike SDI and GUE.
@@M.M.M.M.M890 I have been fortunate in that other than my advanced, I have taken everything from one instructor - a guy I already knew and trusted before I decided to get certified. Prior to going pro (and when you do that with SSI they give you access to all the standards and a lot of the more common electronic course materials), if I had a question about the next course I would just ask him and get the answer. Of course, now that I am an AI if I ask a standards question, I get a smart-ass “have you looked at the standards?” And I get this because as a pro he taught me that I have to be able to know where to find the answers in the standards.
As someone who has taking hundreds of course throughout different fields, it seems SCUBA is one of those few industries that closeholds standards prior to purchase. During HAZMAT training, we were given the the price and standards when we reached out to different vendors. The same for aviation related courses, except those standards are free on the FAA website. So it makes sense to provide them to a prospective student who wants to see what they’re going to learn.
An example would be the significant number of students I had suddenly not want to do OW once they learned they had to remove their mask and breath underwater (PADI course). Having the standards prior to purchase versus hiding them away can also give students a sense of control and peace versus loss of control and now financial obligated to finish.
@@AndrewS-ht3uo With respect to your example (remove the mask), at least with SSI you are not going to really find that in the standards. That’s what the course materials (including videos) are for. Those are hidden until you buy the relevant course. If that is the issue that will stop someone from scuba diving, then it really isn’t visibility of the standards that you are advocating for, but rather a listing of the skills that require mastery with a brief description of each.
Hi James As you do know I follow you from England my question is How about BSAC what do you think about them
i feel i was cheated in open circuit training. CCR i am getting one tough but fun course.
I want to learn to scuba dive. Can you swim? No. Ok let’s go then.
As a certified diver what really annoys me is the price difference between different dive centers just look up the price of a dives near you
Oh buddy... If only all the dive centers were like you... My reality is that I see some dive centers doing an Open Water in... 2 days only. I let you imagine what kind of divers they produce...
Should DM/instructor swims be preformed in pools or under actual diving environment conditions?
I always do the swim tests in the pool with a lifeguard on deck in an 25 or 50 yard pool. Reason is that more than half of DM and instructors in training I have worked with often times can barely meet the swim standards.
In my book swim standards are the to test your ability and stamina to swim on the surface where most will be if something goes wrong during a dive. If the DM or instructor can barely swim how are they supposed to help a student.
Opinion on CMAS Instruction?
Not only has this pointed out a shortcoming of the major scuba training agencies, it also suggests they see freediving as effectively a throw away instead of an entirely separate body of knowledge. Lame.
PADI doesn't disclose their course standards, even after I'd emailed them when something went wrong on my course.
CMAS a d BSAC publush all their diver training standards on line
My teacher didn't allow floating for 10 minutes you must tread. Half the class failed...........there were just 4 people though. So me and one other person passed; excluding the firefighters. The 2 people that didn't wasted a grand. They can return whenever within the year to try again though. I was the doofus crashing into the bottom because i wasn't adding air fast enough or the right amounts and i was the airhog of the group. I have yet to do my checkout dives i've just done a bit of pool stuff.
Those two should have reported the instructor. He/she doesn't have the right to require one or the other. If they could have floated for 10 minutes, they would have met the standard as put forward by the RSTC. That was wrong.
@@sharkymarky7251 one person couldn't even pass the swim test. The other person managed to do the treading but didn't feel comfortable in the water and was constantly going back to the surface when the instructor was trying to instruct. So I guess she passed the testing but wasn't confident underwater. The other person was her husband that failed. But she quit when she found she was uncomfortable underwater. So i guess i should've put quit instead of failed. But in my opinion he should make the testing as hard as possible. Less likely for your students to die when they are actually diving.
@@mrmoose6765 oh, gotcha. It wasn't necessarily due to the treading. 👌
Hey anyone have an opinion on the battery powered hookah systems? Should I log those dives? Under water is under water right?
I already got my open water and logged 8 dives but still i am still skeptic about my training cuz when I did my open water it was fast in way that I think that it gave me sense of false confidence my question if I found a good dive instructor ( which actually happened 2 months ago) do you think that I should repeat my open water ?
You might not need to repeat it necessarily, If you're feeling nervous about then training then a good idea would be too take an inactive/refresher course or just work with a divemaster to practice and perfect your skills. Either one of those will be considerably less expensive. Just make sure you find an instructor who will work well with you. What I mean by that is someone who will have you go through the skills multiple times to develop muscle memory and will be patient with you.
What about CMAS Standards? 😉
Question: With this information in mind, is there any way to transfer/convert an existing cert between training standards? I.e. I have open water with PADI and want to start taking SDI courses, but don't want to pay for their version of the open water cert just to take the advanced ones.
Typically you can just crossover, no need to take the course again
no need to convert any courses.
all organizations are part of WRSTC which actually sets the base standards, hence you can do Padi Open Water, SSI Advanced and RAID Rescue if you wanted to
You don't. All major agencies recognize each other certifications toward the prerequisites for the next level of certification. So if you want to take SDI's Advanced Adventurer course you can do so with a PADI OWD certification. The only exceptions to this are professional level courses and specialty courses counted toward a Master Diver recognition level, so if you want a MSD you need to take the 4-5 specialty courses with that specific agency.
Yes, true story
Advanced open water certification is a waste of time and money. Peak buoyancy should be a class in open water and the deep dives should be moved to open water training. So yes, we're being cheated paying for multiple "fluff" dives just so PADI can pitch other pointless certs. It's all marketing.
I have a question that is not topic related I was told I can't cross over between agencies for instant I have a Padi open water I was considering jumping to SSI for deep dive and I was told I won't be recognized as deep diver if I am going with Padi agency and I should stick to my Padi as It's more recognized is that true?
Hope you get a good answer. I was moving from CMAS to Padi and was told they would not recognize my previous logged dives. Later I moved to SDI and no issues. Sometimes it is the one instructor who is a nitwit
No it is absolutely not true. Choose your instructor, not the training agency. PADI shops will take SSI cert cards and vice versa.
I dont know about moving PADI -> SSI, but I would guess that all agency standards allow for certifications from other agencies. Being a PADI instructor myself (yeah, I know ...) I looked up the requirements for the deep dive specialty. It says in the standards for requirements the student has to meet something like this: "Need to be a Padi adventure diver oder advanced open water diver or posess a qualifying certification of another agency" (translated from the german version). So if some dive school tells you they wont accept certifications from different agencies, my guess would be that the school wants to scam you and that is not backed by the agencies standard. (disclaimer: there might be individual reasons for specific cases I am not aware of).
PADI say that to try to keep you with them. It's fine.
Whoever told you that doesn’t know what they are talking about or is trying to con you into taking their class. If you have a deep card from PADI, SSI, SDI, TDI, M-O-U-S-E, it doesn’t matter to the dive operator so long as it is a recognized training agency. I’m an SSI assistant instructor. I know for a fact that not only does SSI recognize other agency certifications for purposes of course prerequisites (the only exception being the instructor track which, like every other agency I’m aware of requires cross over training), SSI will allow your dive center to upload the other agency certs into the SSI app so you will have an electronic “card” from your agency in that app to show whoever needs to see it. 2 weeks ago I sat and watched our shop owner do it for a student that I taught a skills update course to.
As someone else said…pick the instructor not the agency. To that I’ll add support your local dive shop whenever possible.
I took trimix with James. True story, he went through the standards.
yes please - we need to improve standards, on live-aboards, i noticed instructors teaching a whole course in minutes. not safe.
Hence the absolute necessity of informed customers. Which by the way needs to include the reality that scuba is more than just sticking your head in water but that the activity is inherently dangerous requiring more than a day's training. However we have had numerous potential customers argue about the course duration as they would prefer it be done quickly to fit in with their ill planned trip. So again customer education weeds out those instructors diveshops who are willing to cut corners.
I'm a PADI and SDI instructor - unfortunately we're bound by what the shop and business owner wants us to do. One of the shops I work with makes us omit the swim/float and CESA skill in the pool altogether - because they take too long and he doesn't want to pay for extra time in the pool. During winter we have even less time to get through confined water skills because the pool isn't open as long and they refuse to let us start earlier so we don't interfere with the recreational divers. He was also talking about us ditching the CESA in open water. A lot of us aren't big fans of the skill for various reasons, but while it's in the course standards we need to do it and he was told that in no uncertain circumstances.
CESA is a strange skill imho, getting so much attention when real dive planning and gas management is glossed over. But I would switch shops....
Дайвинг это не спорт!