Welcome to the LU family! Graduated with my undergraduate in Biblical and Theological Studies and will graduate with my M.Div in Apologetics August 2019
Excellent! Even though i do not agree with all the answers given(but surely not putting myself higher, because God is the Only One, Who knows everything!☺️), i really enjoyed listening! 😊 Thank you so much & God bless you all abundantly! 🙌☺️🙏
“I don’t like reading the Old Testament “. That was a strange jarring sweeping statement. Maybe he meant parts of the OT. There is so much truth and love and yes comfort in the Old Testament. At my darkest hour when I was severely spiritually depressed, I found my refuge in the psalms and the prophets. The OT is God stretching His hand out to His rebellious people. It’s Hosea and Gomer. It’s His mercies, new every morning. I’m a little stunned. There are hard parts, yes. But there is so much incredible wealth there. I love reading the OT.
Love & Light hmmm wasn’t the all loving Jesus commanded to kill innocent infants n children n said to rape little kids🤦🏾♂️ u guys needs to stop been bias n stop been blind followers
Doesn't Acts 15:28,29 indicate that the Holy Spirit was also influential in bringing the council in Jerusalem to the conclusion that they would not lay the yoke of the law on the shoulders of Gentile believers? Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit would be sent and guide His disciples into all the truth and disclose to them what was to come (John 16:13). Thank you all so much for your this excellent discussion.
Best verses is Heb. 4.12 "the Word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart." Why is this verse so important? Read The Spiritual Man by Watchman Nee (700 pages on the dividing, white cover only). The most spiritual Christians were those who said they would not know what spiritual life was like if they did not have the experience of the dividing of their spirit, soul and body. www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm
The last question old testament law lady also pops out in one of Frank Turek's video th-cam.com/video/zSqb5Q8zjx4/w-d-xo.html she was also the last questioner
The 6 twenty-four hour days are literal 24 hour days and that they sum up the period of restoration after God caused earth to become desolate and waste in Gen. 1.2 due to the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages, i.e. dinosaurs who were subsequently cast into the deep (by a meteorite) around 65 million BC. All the days are called "good days" except day 2 because on that day the firmament was split out of which came some of those dinosaur demons from the deep, one of which tempted Eve in the Garden in the serpent. Day 4 the sun and moon are clear because day 1 there was still a haze over the earth. Day 3 allowed for plants that need sunlight.
The Bible says Adam was born 4004 BC. Just add it up. Gen. 1.1 is contained in 4.5 billion years of earth and 13.8 billion years of the universe scientifically proven. From 3986 BC to 2015 AD is exactly 120 Jubilees or 6000 years. So Adam was born 4004 BC and was 18 years old in the Garden 3986 BC.
*"3986 BC to 2015 AD is exactly 120 Jubilees or 6000 years."* What does that matter? *"So Adam was born 4004 BC and was 18 years old in the Garden 3986 BC."* What makes you think that? *"Are you aware that William Lane Craig is not a Christian since he is a non-OSASer?"* Can you show me OSAS from scripture? *"Yet the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast."* W.L.C. doesn't believe salvation is by works. *"A person born-again can never lose salvation, yet Craig says you can."* Can you show me this from the scriptures? *"The 6 twenty-four hour days are literal 24 hour days ... "* Literal days can be used figuratively, just like speaking of the arm of the Lord is speaking of a literal arm, not a weapon, yet it is used figuratively for the power of the Lord. What makes you think that the literal, 24-hour days are not being used figuratively? *" ... and that they sum up the period of restoration after God caused earth to become desolate and waste in Gen. 1.2 due to the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages, i.e. dinosaurs who were subsequently cast into the deep (by a meteorite) around 65 million BC."* What makes you think that God caused the Earth to become desolate and a waste, rather than just creating it in that state or creating the materials from which it formed, naturally becoming desolate and a waste through natural processes, without God's strongly actualizing that state of affairs? It seems like you like to do a lot of eisegesis. *"All the days are called "good days" except day 2 because on that day the firmament was split out of which came some of those dinosaur demons from the deep, one of which tempted Eve in the Garden in the serpent."* What makes you think that's true?
@@Real_LiamOBryan God indicated when His 1st coming would be, 173,880 years after the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem Neh. 2 and His 2nd coming is going to be 2 millennia after His 1st coming. God let's us know His plan. 80 Jubilees in the OT, 40 Jubilees in the NT, for a total of 6000 years or 120 jubilees. Leaving 1000 years of the millennial kingdom or 20 Jubilees. So the Tribulation period should be from 2023 to 2030. This is 7 years of famine followed by 7 years of plenty. 2016 to 2023. Since 2015 was the 120th Jubilee and the 8th feast Tetrad since Christ. The next feast Tetrad is not till 2582/83. Rev. 6.12 also confirms for us the great earthquake before the Tribulation starts which was Haiti 2010 where 320,000 people died, 2nd worst in human history, and 2011 the black sackcloth sun the 4th long H3 solar eclipse since Christ on Nov. 3, 2013, rarest of all, and won't happen again till 2172. Add to that of course in proper order the feast Tetrad 2014/15. These are markers. What you should see very soon is construction on the 3rd Temple to commence so it can be completed in the 20s. In John 10.28 we read that those who are born-again shall never perish. This is OSAS. Craig is going to Hell since he prefers salvation by works. Pride takes such a stance. No man's works are good enough to God. If you believe you can lose salvation you believe in salvation by works even if you don't want to admit it or acknowledge it publicly. The principle is accept the literal unless the figurate makes more sense. A 24 hour day is a 24 hour day with an evening and a morning each day as specified, so the default is to accept that these are six 24 hours days that sum up the period of restoration. The OT says God does not create desolate and waste, so when earth became desolate and waste, this was not God's desire. It was the result of fallen creatures in earth's earliest ages. Eisegesis seems to be your forte. You don't account for the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages. That's where your theory falls apart. You worship a god who creates desolate and waste, whereas the Christian God creates perfectly in Gen. 1.1. So God trumps your god always. God does not create a meaningless marker, so we know why day 2 was not called a good day. Your god does not inform you of this.
There cannot be an eternity of the past of cause and effects, because by that definition, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened. And you should never have existed because a past eternity would go on forever never reaching this point. Therefore, the idea of a past eternity is self-contradiction and false.
Are you aware that William Lane Craig is not a Christian since he is a non-OSASer? This is a fundamental fact. Yet the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. A person born-again can never lose salvation, yet Craig says you can. This goes unaddressed every time.
Here's another query I have for the "non-OSASers": If salvation is _not eternal_ how is it even "salvation" let alone _eternal?_ In other words, to say one can LOSE one's "eternal salvation" is to deny BOTH its eternality AND its salvation - TOTAL & 100% contradiction in terms. WLC is a totally illogical man as is evidenced by his adherence to the heresy of the trinity. There is simply no greater perversion perpetrated on mankind than that one as the devil invented it right there in the Garden: himself + the woman + the man = 1 religion of idolatry. sick
Craig is correct, the possibility of apostasy is very much taught in scripture. If you want to write off everybody who believes that, then thats very unfortunate rather than make your case
@@jerardosc9534 Non-OSAS is apostacy so William Lane Craig is an apostate. The Bible has made the case that salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast and true salvation once received can never be lost. Since you don't concur I know that you are not born-again. You are going to Hell.
Besides what Shadow said, that also assumes that there is such a dichotomy. I think that it is a false dichotomy. There is a third option, namely, God offers the gift of salvation to all men, and gives people the grace necessary to accept that gift, yet some people freely choose to reject it.
@Shadow Me and you seem to agree. Notice that I didn't say what you said, namely, God gives people grace to choose salvation or that they are given grace to accept it. I said that God gives people the grace which is *necessary* to *accept* the gift. This is called Prevenient Grace in Arminianism. A necessary condition for something to come about is something which must be present for that thing to come about but is not, itself, *sufficient* to bring that thing about. Grace is necessary to accept the gift of salvation, it is a *necessary condition* of salvation, but it does not cause salvation to come about, it is not a *sufficient condition* of salvation. www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Confusion-of-Necessary.html en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency Also, a contradiction is of the form, A and not-A. I said no such thing. *" ... because they didn't receive the grace to accept it."* I didn't say that. They received the grace which is necessary to accept it, that is, it *enables* them to accept it. That does not, however, guarantee that they will accept it. It just gives them the ability to, if they so desire. They receive that grace whether they accept the gift or not. It's like saying that a surgeon restored the arm muscles which enables them to reach out and take the gift. They can still reject that gift, even if they are enabled, gain the ability, to accept it. *"They have no choice."* Libertarian Freedom of the Will is maintained in Arminianism.
@Shadow I'm sorry, I just can't find anything I said of the form A and not-A at the same time and in the same way. It would be helpful if you could just point out which parts are contradictory and why they are so. Let me put it like this: People, without God's grace, can't choose God. So God gives grace enough to all people (John 12:32) that they have the possibility of being saved, but they still must choose for themselves. A key thing you may be misunderstanding is that a person's free will is separate from what they can achieve. Certainly we don't say a person doesn't have free will if they're in prison, they obviously do, it's merely they have fewer choices to make with their free will. Likewise, a person without grace is unable to choose God, but that doesn't mean they must choose if they have grace. The prison administration may enable a prisoner to exercise in the yard at a certain time on a certain day, yet a prisoner may instead choose to shank a fellow inmate who looked at him wrong in the cafeteria in the yard instead of exercising. God's grace enables us to exercise in the yard (be saved), but whether or not we exercise in the yard is up to us.
Recently joined Liberty University to be in apologetics and theology :) thank you for your inspiration Mike licona
Welcome to the LU family! Graduated with my undergraduate in Biblical and Theological Studies and will graduate with my M.Div in Apologetics August 2019
Excellent. Keep the TH-cam videos coming, Mike.
It would be my dream to set in on something like this. Thank you all.
Excellent! Even though i do not agree with all the answers given(but surely not putting myself higher, because God is the Only One, Who knows everything!☺️), i really enjoyed listening! 😊 Thank you so much & God bless you all abundantly! 🙌☺️🙏
1:24:21 I see believers falling so often for this. Craig is spot on!
“I don’t like reading the Old Testament “.
That was a strange jarring sweeping statement.
Maybe he meant parts of the OT.
There is so much truth and love and yes comfort in the Old Testament. At my darkest hour when I was severely spiritually depressed, I found my refuge in the psalms and the prophets. The OT is God stretching His hand out to His rebellious people. It’s Hosea and Gomer. It’s His mercies, new every morning.
I’m a little stunned. There are hard parts, yes. But there is so much incredible wealth there. I love reading the OT.
@Laura Kakoschke that's true, the "Old Testament" is a treasure & full with our Lord Jesus! 💖 Many Blessings! 🙌☺️🙏
Can you give me the time stamp?
Love & Light hmmm wasn’t the all loving Jesus commanded to kill innocent infants n children n said to rape little kids🤦🏾♂️ u guys needs to stop been bias n stop been blind followers
@@A1.4U You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@lukesalazar9283 Hey When they killed your God was he pleased or displeased?
Bless Prof Lane Craig !
Doesn't Acts 15:28,29 indicate that the Holy Spirit was also influential in bringing the council in Jerusalem to the conclusion that they would not lay the yoke of the law on the shoulders of Gentile believers? Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit would be sent and guide His disciples into all the truth and disclose to them what was to come (John 16:13). Thank you all so much for your this excellent discussion.
william lane craig great apologist and very clear thinker.Dr Flowers is right on with calvanism
@Bob Free
Only glad to see Leighton wasn’t one of the main speakers. He is a supported of Open Theism. I find his approach very dishonest.
"I don't believe in God." = 'I define God down to justify my lifestyle.'
Best verses is Heb. 4.12 "the Word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart." Why is this verse so important? Read The Spiritual Man by Watchman Nee (700 pages on the dividing, white cover only). The most spiritual Christians were those who said they would not know what spiritual life was like if they did not have the experience of the dividing of their spirit, soul and body.
www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm
great verse great book
The last question was so weird in the evangelism forum like that, I smell the seven day Adventist was trying to impose its theology.
Why is Leighton Flowers part of the “discussion”? He is hosting, not contributing.
The last question old testament law lady also pops out in one of Frank Turek's video th-cam.com/video/zSqb5Q8zjx4/w-d-xo.html she was also the last questioner
The 6 twenty-four hour days are literal 24 hour days and that they sum up the period of restoration after God caused earth to become desolate and waste in Gen. 1.2 due to the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages, i.e. dinosaurs who were subsequently cast into the deep (by a meteorite) around 65 million BC. All the days are called "good days" except day 2 because on that day the firmament was split out of which came some of those dinosaur demons from the deep, one of which tempted Eve in the Garden in the serpent. Day 4 the sun and moon are clear because day 1 there was still a haze over the earth. Day 3 allowed for plants that need sunlight.
The Bible says Adam was born 4004 BC. Just add it up. Gen. 1.1 is contained in 4.5 billion years of earth and 13.8 billion years of the universe scientifically proven. From 3986 BC to 2015 AD is exactly 120 Jubilees or 6000 years. So Adam was born 4004 BC and was 18 years old in the Garden 3986 BC.
*"3986 BC to 2015 AD is exactly 120 Jubilees or 6000 years."*
What does that matter?
*"So Adam was born 4004 BC and was 18 years old in the Garden 3986 BC."*
What makes you think that?
*"Are you aware that William Lane Craig is not a Christian since he is a non-OSASer?"*
Can you show me OSAS from scripture?
*"Yet the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast."*
W.L.C. doesn't believe salvation is by works.
*"A person born-again can never lose salvation, yet Craig says you can."*
Can you show me this from the scriptures?
*"The 6 twenty-four hour days are literal 24 hour days ... "*
Literal days can be used figuratively, just like speaking of the arm of the Lord is speaking of a literal arm, not a weapon, yet it is used figuratively for the power of the Lord. What makes you think that the literal, 24-hour days are not being used figuratively?
*" ... and that they sum up the period of restoration after God caused earth to become desolate and waste in Gen. 1.2 due to the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages, i.e. dinosaurs who were subsequently cast into the deep (by a meteorite) around 65 million BC."*
What makes you think that God caused the Earth to become desolate and a waste, rather than just creating it in that state or creating the materials from which it formed, naturally becoming desolate and a waste through natural processes, without God's strongly actualizing that state of affairs? It seems like you like to do a lot of eisegesis.
*"All the days are called "good days" except day 2 because on that day the firmament was split out of which came some of those dinosaur demons from the deep, one of which tempted Eve in the Garden in the serpent."*
What makes you think that's true?
@@Real_LiamOBryan God indicated when His 1st coming would be, 173,880 years after the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem Neh. 2 and His 2nd coming is going to be 2 millennia after His 1st coming. God let's us know His plan. 80 Jubilees in the OT, 40 Jubilees in the NT, for a total of 6000 years or 120 jubilees. Leaving 1000 years of the millennial kingdom or 20 Jubilees. So the Tribulation period should be from 2023 to 2030. This is 7 years of famine followed by 7 years of plenty. 2016 to 2023. Since 2015 was the 120th Jubilee and the 8th feast Tetrad since Christ. The next feast Tetrad is not till 2582/83. Rev. 6.12 also confirms for us the great earthquake before the Tribulation starts which was Haiti 2010 where 320,000 people died, 2nd worst in human history, and 2011 the black sackcloth sun the 4th long H3 solar eclipse since Christ on Nov. 3, 2013, rarest of all, and won't happen again till 2172. Add to that of course in proper order the feast Tetrad 2014/15. These are markers. What you should see very soon is construction on the 3rd Temple to commence so it can be completed in the 20s.
In John 10.28 we read that those who are born-again shall never perish. This is OSAS. Craig is going to Hell since he prefers salvation by works. Pride takes such a stance. No man's works are good enough to God. If you believe you can lose salvation you believe in salvation by works even if you don't want to admit it or acknowledge it publicly.
The principle is accept the literal unless the figurate makes more sense. A 24 hour day is a 24 hour day with an evening and a morning each day as specified, so the default is to accept that these are six 24 hours days that sum up the period of restoration.
The OT says God does not create desolate and waste, so when earth became desolate and waste, this was not God's desire. It was the result of fallen creatures in earth's earliest ages. Eisegesis seems to be your forte. You don't account for the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages. That's where your theory falls apart. You worship a god who creates desolate and waste, whereas the Christian God creates perfectly in Gen. 1.1. So God trumps your god always.
God does not create a meaningless marker, so we know why day 2 was not called a good day. Your god does not inform you of this.
There cannot be an eternity of the past of cause and effects, because by that definition, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened. And you should never have existed because a past eternity would go on forever never reaching this point. Therefore, the idea of a past eternity is self-contradiction and false.
Are you aware that William Lane Craig is not a Christian since he is a non-OSASer? This is a fundamental fact. Yet the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. A person born-again can never lose salvation, yet Craig says you can. This goes unaddressed every time.
Here's another query I have for the "non-OSASers": If salvation is _not eternal_ how is it even "salvation" let alone _eternal?_ In other words, to say one can LOSE one's "eternal salvation" is to deny BOTH its eternality AND its salvation - TOTAL & 100% contradiction in terms. WLC is a totally illogical man as is evidenced by his adherence to the heresy of the trinity. There is simply no greater perversion perpetrated on mankind than that one as the devil invented it right there in the Garden: himself + the woman + the man = 1 religion of idolatry. sick
@@The-F.R.E.E.-J. what is osas?
@@lukesalazar9283 "Once Saved, ALWAYS Saved"
Craig is correct, the possibility of apostasy is very much taught in scripture. If you want to write off everybody who believes that, then thats very unfortunate rather than make your case
@@jerardosc9534 Non-OSAS is apostacy so William Lane Craig is an apostate. The Bible has made the case that salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast and true salvation once received can never be lost. Since you don't concur I know that you are not born-again. You are going to Hell.
Vegan alert at the end
Salvation is of God. He chooses those whom He wishes to save. Unsaved humans cannot choose God.
Besides what Shadow said, that also assumes that there is such a dichotomy. I think that it is a false dichotomy. There is a third option, namely, God offers the gift of salvation to all men, and gives people the grace necessary to accept that gift, yet some people freely choose to reject it.
@Shadow Me and you seem to agree. Notice that I didn't say what you said, namely, God gives people grace to choose salvation or that they are given grace to accept it. I said that God gives people the grace which is *necessary* to *accept* the gift. This is called Prevenient Grace in Arminianism. A necessary condition for something to come about is something which must be present for that thing to come about but is not, itself, *sufficient* to bring that thing about. Grace is necessary to accept the gift of salvation, it is a *necessary condition* of salvation, but it does not cause salvation to come about, it is not a *sufficient condition* of salvation.
www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Confusion-of-Necessary.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency
Also, a contradiction is of the form, A and not-A. I said no such thing.
*" ... because they didn't receive the grace to accept it."*
I didn't say that. They received the grace which is necessary to accept it, that is, it *enables* them to accept it. That does not, however, guarantee that they will accept it. It just gives them the ability to, if they so desire. They receive that grace whether they accept the gift or not. It's like saying that a surgeon restored the arm muscles which enables them to reach out and take the gift. They can still reject that gift, even if they are enabled, gain the ability, to accept it.
*"They have no choice."*
Libertarian Freedom of the Will is maintained in Arminianism.
@Shadow I'm sorry, I just can't find anything I said of the form A and not-A at the same time and in the same way. It would be helpful if you could just point out which parts are contradictory and why they are so.
Let me put it like this: People, without God's grace, can't choose God. So God gives grace enough to all people (John 12:32) that they have the possibility of being saved, but they still must choose for themselves.
A key thing you may be misunderstanding is that a person's free will is separate from what they can achieve. Certainly we don't say a person doesn't have free will if they're in prison, they obviously do, it's merely they have fewer choices to make with their free will. Likewise, a person without grace is unable to choose God, but that doesn't mean they must choose if they have grace. The prison administration may enable a prisoner to exercise in the yard at a certain time on a certain day, yet a prisoner may instead choose to shank a fellow inmate who looked at him wrong in the cafeteria in the yard instead of exercising. God's grace enables us to exercise in the yard (be saved), but whether or not we exercise in the yard is up to us.