Thanks for the update, I think we need to have Baldwin. His ball use was so much better than some of the other defenders we have and he’s only 22. I don’t think you can also definitely blame him for his body when some contribution could be from the S&C team with his loads which developed his foot injury. Wouldn’t mind Hoare as well tho.
Players with similar builds like Laverde are constantly available and reliable in terms of fitness, I think unfortunately Baldwin just has a body that isn't right for the sport.
If ever there was a case study for the S&C team it would be Baldwin. These guys would have been ultra cautious given Baldwin’s fragility. The reality is not everyone is cut out for such a demanding sport. If Baldwin can get through a VFL season uninterrupted, he will get another shot. Until then there’s no reason to rush re-signing Baldwin imo
Thanks F. Have been glued to your Chanel all year and what a magnificent effort you have put in over the trade and draft period. Happy Christmas and keep up the great work 👍
Will Hoare for me. 6-6 Intercept defender who is so strong above his head. Had a breakout VFL season. At 24 he’s ready to go & with getting on the list & trainig full time there’s even more improvement to come . Get him in !
Don’t get the argument that Baldwin has been injury prone at Essendon. He took the first year to recover from an ACL done before we got him but then in 2022 and 2023 he played 31 AFL and VFL games and was held over from the VFL as an emergency for multiple games as well. he got a foot stress fracture last year and missed the year but really it is one injury which was serious enough to miss a year. I’d back him at least as much as Reid
Baldwin for me. He is a proved AFL player, he looked pretty good when he did manage to string a few games together. Look sometimes you get a bad run of injuries, if he can get his body right loads of upside to this guy. Give him one more chance. Hoare will be available at mid season draft if Baldwin doesnt work out.
Hoare gathering much more attention from other clubs than Baldwin right now, if anything it would be Baldwin that is available during the mid-season draft.
Hoare looked significantly better than Hayes and dare I say Reid at the times. He’s AFL ready and can plug a hole when needed. I think we’d be stupid as a club to not sign him. Imagine the culture the club to build by signing a home grown talent from our very own VFL list. I’m all for it, big fan. Baldwin is a ticking time bomb, sad but too injury prone for me.
@@sevdiesabedini2536 I just want to win! Is that to much to ask? Sue me! I have been watching this club with frustration for many years. Just want to do anything we can to make us better as a club and community and signing this kid, despite his mature age, is exactly what we need. Ready made players who don’t need to time to develop into something larger than life. Hoare seems to be the answer for our last list spot. Whether Scott plays him, is another story all together.
Much as I love Baldwin, Hoare clearly presents as the most reasonable player to bring in. We already possess more than enough highly injury prone defenders as it is. Plus Hoare been a little older would be a lot more mature and probably more AFL ready even though he hasn't played at that level as of yet.
Your reasons against Kaine Baldwin boil down to that he is injury prone. James Hird was the same early on. Baldwin is a future Essendon captain. The only thing that may stop him is the uselessness and poor judgement of the current coach.
I think will hoare would be a good pickup. I am not sure why people are keen on baldwin as they havent seen enough of him to form an opinion, only a handful of games in 4 years... I have always said resilience and consistency are gold, and we dont get that with baldwin/reid. maybe delist reid if he doesnt play and put baldwin and reid in the vfl side. baldwin and reid can earn their spot back on the list, just like hoare
I understand the sentiment about Baldwin due to his injury history but I’m giving him one more chance. Sure he’s a risk but one I think is worth taking considering he has the best hands at the Club, is versatile and disciplined. Big upside if he can remain injury free.
@@everythingessendon548 he’s largely played VFL and been injured for a fair portion of time too. Prior to his navicular injury last year his marking at VFL level was vice like from the games I watched, good numbers too. I honestly believe he has the safest hands at the Club. It all comes down to the Clubs confidence in his body though so he may may not get another crack anyway
You sound really prejudiced against Baldwin saying that he has been on the list 4-5 years & basically chronically injured. He is a KPP recruited at 18 coming off an acl with, been on the list 3 years & shown promise & has a high ceiling, was training the house down last summer before a navicular reaction, that’s just terrible bad luck. 3 years for a key position player recruited at draft age & coming of an acl isn’t a lot of time on the list, Reid has been on the list 4 years already & really struggled. With that logic Reid should be delisted already too, I think Baldwin should be a walk up start to that list spot if he completes the preseason in full health playing the preseason games.
I am a big fan of Baldwin's mentality and resilience, but his body just isn't holding up, I will say the same about Reid if he doesn't manage to get on the park in 2025.
Well subject to pre season form, if Hoare's body is good, he might be the go. Baldwin has had some years to get his body right, and he hasn't and he got deep listed. The NM player had opportunity in a bottom ranked side to impress at AFL standard. Why didn't he get more games there? Lets keep an eye on form over the pre season.
Can't disagree too much with you - Hoare sounds like a good pick. A general question: when an AFL player is delisted and not picked up by another club, how often does it occur that he plays for the reserves/VFL team of the club that he used to be listed on? If the answer is not often than I understand.
Great video again Felix - thank you. I haven’t seen enough of Hoare to know if he play senior football and impact. If we can’t answer that definitively - l think the wiser move is to keep a spot open for the mid season draft. Historically we have been good at mid season selection
What happens if during the year when the mid season draft comes and they use this spot? Do the Bomber's get a pic for that?Especially when in the past look who has been picked up in that mid season draft..
I feel Reid could be another Gumbleton. So much promise but can't string more than a couple of games a season. Baldwin is a real risk too. We need to learn from the past.
Baldwin is just too unreliable. I like the idea of Will Hoare. Watched the two’s quite a bit last year. I don’t think we need to wait till midseason because there will no doubt be a longterm injury. ❤️🖤❤️🖤
I think Baldwins injuries are a little over hyped, he hasn’t had repeat injuries which shows good rehab practice. But I think Hoare is the better pickup for now, let Baldwin play VFL and fight for a mid season pickup if Essendon has a long term injury or another club sees something. A fit Baldwin has huge upside, pre ACL he was expected to be a top 10 pickup.
We're too tall. Last year our forward and backlines only had a couple of players under 190cm with wings taken up by Cox and Jones at stages and we have been going with 2 rucks. We've lost Stringer and Weideman but have gained Gerreyn and we're hoping Reid will finally be fit. At this rate we will be hoping that 3 of our talls will be injured purely for team balance in the AFL and VFL.
Huh? Too tall? Last year we ranked 12th in league for tallest team and in 2023 3rd youngest team, we just drafted 8 first years players so I think we need maturity and readiness. Will Hoare for me.
@@richardbehan8118 we have to be more ruthless he has the potential to be an all Australian if he can get out of the park I’ve watched a lot of him and love how he plays but 9 games in 4 years for a top 10 draft pick isnt ideal and he is holding the list spot of someone who might play.
Baldwin every day of the week. His body has been as issue yes, but his disposal by foot has looked elite when playing at afl level. A real point of difference in our defense. He was pencilled in to start round 1 over Laverde until he got injured. Much bigger upside and low risk as it’s SSP.
Cox came back from a horrendous run of injuries and had a solid season considering how his confidence must have been wrecked. Twice kicked three goals in a game when played forward. Scott has no idea how to play him but he is a unique talent.
Think many of us have a soft spot for Baldwin, poor bloke just can't get a good run at it. Yes he's had time and shown glimpses but he's never given up. That is impressive in a cut throat environment like AFL. If his body really is unsuited for the rigours of AFL it's logical to assume the club medical and conditioning staff would have given him a tap on the shoulder. That's how I see it. When it comes to choosing the player for the list spot available, loyalties aside, best man gets it if the club pulls the trigger.
Completely agree with you in that Kaine Baldwin as an SSP signing is fundamentally stupid as why would you add injury prone to an injury prone list. As you said only reason to sign SSPs is because you expect them to play footy. Baldwin even if fit just plays VFL for the majority of the year anyway so we’ll why not just add him to the VFL list, see if he sets the world alight(which such is dubious) then add him tfrom mid season draft as there is 100% chance Reid gets a 6 month set back from a headache.
Please go and listen to Lunchtime Catch-Up Patreon episode from 30th November 2023. It’s the then VFL president Paul Cousins giving his honest opinion on Kaine Baldwin & it’s the complete opposite to what you said. I see what you’re saying with his durability up until this point, however I reckon you’re the only Essendon person out there that doesn’t rate him. I watched every single VFL match in 2023 and was blown away by how above that standard he was. I also attended many trainings last pre-season & he was our best defender in most match simulations. I agree Baldwin has been riddled with injury, however his ample chances are a testament to how highly the club rated him.
I rate Baldwin, I just don't think his talent is worth persisting with if his body doesn't let him play. I also think Reid is under pressure and if he doesn't remain fit for most of the season could easily be delisted.
@@thejoeboganexperience7146 if you read my comment you would have known I was referring to the opinion of the then VFL President Paul Cousins, not that of the podcasters themselves.
Thanks for the update, I think we need to have Baldwin. His ball use was so much better than some of the other defenders we have and he’s only 22. I don’t think you can also definitely blame him for his body when some contribution could be from the S&C team with his loads which developed his foot injury.
Wouldn’t mind Hoare as well tho.
Players with similar builds like Laverde are constantly available and reliable in terms of fitness, I think unfortunately Baldwin just has a body that isn't right for the sport.
If ever there was a case study for the S&C team it would be Baldwin. These guys would have been ultra cautious given Baldwin’s fragility. The reality is not everyone is cut out for such a demanding sport.
If Baldwin can get through a VFL season uninterrupted, he will get another shot. Until then there’s no reason to rush re-signing Baldwin imo
Thanks F. Have been glued to your Chanel all year and what a magnificent effort you have put in over the trade and draft period. Happy Christmas and keep up the great work 👍
Cheers mate! Appreciate it a lot.
Hoare = Ready made, AFL frame, let it roll baby
Definitely, hopefully we don't have to use him, but is physically ready if needed.
Will Hoare for me.
6-6 Intercept defender who is so strong above his head. Had a breakout VFL season. At 24 he’s ready to go & with getting on the list & trainig full time there’s even more improvement to come .
Get him in !
Keep up the good work! Thanks!
Cheers for the donation! You didn't have to.
Nic Martian was a hidden gem so it’s possible that hoare might develop onto one
If Hoare is half as good as Martin I will be happy.
Totally agreed best to keep the list spot open I think ♥️ 🖤 Go dons
Definitely an option, unless we suffer some injuries early in 2025.
Will Hoare for me... Would be happy to have it on it
Agreed, right now it is sign Hoare or wait till the MSD
Don’t get the argument that Baldwin has been injury prone at Essendon. He took the first year to recover from an ACL done before we got him but then in 2022 and 2023 he played 31 AFL and VFL games and was held over from the VFL as an emergency for multiple games as well. he got a foot stress fracture last year and missed the year but really it is one injury which was serious enough to miss a year. I’d back him at least as much as Reid
Need to reward good peformance ! Hoare has my vote
Stop the count!
It's been fun watching you slowly turn on Baldwin lol.
Really respect the bloke, but don't want him on the list :P
Baldwin has real ability and is an excellent kick, definitely deserves another chance
Not sure he’s as good as what fans hype him up to be to be honest
Agree Will should be picked up before another club picks him up!
Another good VFL campaign and he could be taken in the MSD
Baldwin for me. He is a proved AFL player, he looked pretty good when he did manage to string a few games together. Look sometimes you get a bad run of injuries, if he can get his body right loads of upside to this guy. Give him one more chance. Hoare will be available at mid season draft if Baldwin doesnt work out.
Hoare gathering much more attention from other clubs than Baldwin right now, if anything it would be Baldwin that is available during the mid-season draft.
Hoare looked significantly better than Hayes and dare I say Reid at the times. He’s AFL ready and can plug a hole when needed. I think we’d be stupid as a club to not sign him. Imagine the culture the club to build by signing a home grown talent from our very own VFL list. I’m all for it, big fan. Baldwin is a ticking time bomb, sad but too injury prone for me.
Well said, mate! Hoare for the win.
@@sevdiesabedini2536 I just want to win! Is that to much to ask? Sue me! I have been watching this club with frustration for many years. Just want to do anything we can to make us better as a club and community and signing this kid, despite his mature age, is exactly what we need. Ready made players who don’t need to time to develop into something larger than life. Hoare seems to be the answer for our last list spot. Whether Scott plays him, is another story all together.
@@LeighDiffey-v6b Mate, well said. What’ve we got to lose as a footy club? We’re cooked as it is, free shot
Has worked really hard to get to this point, definitely deserves a chance.
Don't really have a preference, just trust that the club will make the right call
Hold up
Gotta hope so, they have gotten this form of list management right in the past.
Much as I love Baldwin, Hoare clearly presents as the most reasonable player to bring in. We already possess more than enough highly injury prone defenders as it is. Plus Hoare been a little older would be a lot more mature and probably more AFL ready even though he hasn't played at that level as of yet.
Your reasons against Kaine Baldwin boil down to that he is injury prone. James Hird was the same early on. Baldwin is a future Essendon captain. The only thing that may stop him is the uselessness and poor judgement of the current coach.
I think will hoare would be a good pickup. I am not sure why people are keen on baldwin as they havent seen enough of him to form an opinion, only a handful of games in 4 years... I have always said resilience and consistency are gold, and we dont get that with baldwin/reid. maybe delist reid if he doesnt play and put baldwin and reid in the vfl side. baldwin and reid can earn their spot back on the list, just like hoare
Baldwin is decent but not worth using a list spot on with the injuries that he’s had
I understand the sentiment about Baldwin due to his injury history but I’m giving him one more chance. Sure he’s a risk but one I think is worth taking considering he has the best hands at the Club, is versatile and disciplined. Big upside if he can remain injury free.
I am not sure he has the best hands at the club to be honest, 3 contested marks in 3 years
@@everythingessendon548 he’s largely played VFL and been injured for a fair portion of time too. Prior to his navicular injury last year his marking at VFL level was vice like from the games I watched, good numbers too. I honestly believe he has the safest hands at the Club. It all comes down to the Clubs confidence in his body though so he may may not get another crack anyway
Little harsh on In Kaine he can be super aggressive and played well when injury free
Baldwin has good talent…let’s give him one last chance to get his body right!
My thoughts exactly but sounds like he's still not 100% so I'm hoping he'll get a last chance list spot but 🤷
He has had a few chances to get his body right.
You sound really prejudiced against Baldwin saying that he has been on the list 4-5 years & basically chronically injured. He is a KPP recruited at 18 coming off an acl with, been on the list 3 years & shown promise & has a high ceiling, was training the house down last summer before a navicular reaction, that’s just terrible bad luck. 3 years for a key position player recruited at draft age & coming of an acl isn’t a lot of time on the list, Reid has been on the list 4 years already & really struggled. With that logic Reid should be delisted already too, I think Baldwin should be a walk up start to that list spot if he completes the preseason in full health playing the preseason games.
Understandable and fair point you have.
Have you watched Zach Reid play? I personally think there’s no comparison. Reid is miles above Baldwin.
I am a big fan of Baldwin's mentality and resilience, but his body just isn't holding up, I will say the same about Reid if he doesn't manage to get on the park in 2025.
Well subject to pre season form, if Hoare's body is good, he might be the go.
Baldwin has had some years to get his body right, and he hasn't and he got deep listed. The NM player had opportunity in a bottom ranked side to impress at AFL standard. Why didn't he get more games there?
Lets keep an eye on form over the pre season.
I agree, I think Hoare is the pick of the bunch.
Can't disagree too much with you - Hoare sounds like a good pick.
A general question: when an AFL player is delisted and not picked up by another club, how often does it occur that he plays for the reserves/VFL team of the club that he used to be listed on? If the answer is not often than I understand.
There’s more money to go play bush footy. The standards of the VFL is actually lower than some of the other reserves comps around the country
Quite rare to be honest, it makes more sense for them to join a new system to try and improve in a new environment.
Odds are we will have a long term injury by the mid season draft, giving us a pick there..
Fingers crossed that isn't the case.
Thanks for the update. Hoare or no-one.
Great video again Felix - thank you.
I haven’t seen enough of Hoare to know if he play senior football and impact. If we can’t answer that definitively - l think the wiser move is to keep a spot open for the mid season draft.
Historically we have been good at mid season selection
Wouldn’t be an ideal AFL player, but as a 4th or 5th string defender I think he’s a good option
What happens if during the year when the mid season draft comes and they use this spot? Do the Bomber's get a pic for that?Especially when in the past look who has been picked up in that mid season draft..
If we suffer a long term injury we can have a pick in the mid-season draft, otherwise we will not be active.
@everythingessendon548 cheers for clearing that up 👍
As a junior, Baldwin was rated more highly than Reid. Now there is a player who is constantly injured and unreliable.
Will Hoare gets the #26 for me
Big number to take!
@everythingessendon548 Fair call but if not Baldwin or Hoare take #26? Who do you think will or should?
I feel Reid could be another Gumbleton. So much promise but can't string more than a couple of games a season.
Baldwin is a real risk too. We need to learn from the past.
Unfortunately I have to agree, Reid just hasn't been able to play footy at any level, big contract year coming up.
Baldwin is just too unreliable. I like the idea of Will Hoare. Watched the two’s quite a bit last year. I don’t think we need to wait till midseason because there will no doubt be a longterm injury. ❤️🖤❤️🖤
Unfortunately it is impossible to rely on Reid, Ridley and Cox.
Should sign will hoare can mark and kick and has some pride
Good tough player
Will Hoare = ability = availability
For sure, his body is far more trustworthy.
I think Baldwins injuries are a little over hyped, he hasn’t had repeat injuries which shows good rehab practice. But I think Hoare is the better pickup for now, let Baldwin play VFL and fight for a mid season pickup if Essendon has a long term injury or another club sees something.
A fit Baldwin has huge upside, pre ACL he was expected to be a top 10 pickup.
We're too tall. Last year our forward and backlines only had a couple of players under 190cm with wings taken up by Cox and Jones at stages and we have been going with 2 rucks. We've lost Stringer and Weideman but have gained Gerreyn and we're hoping Reid will finally be fit. At this rate we will be hoping that 3 of our talls will be injured purely for team balance in the AFL and VFL.
Huh? Too tall? Last year we ranked 12th in league for tallest team and in 2023 3rd youngest team, we just drafted 8 first years players so I think we need maturity and readiness. Will Hoare for me.
I think we need more tall depth in defence
Reid is another player I think if he doesn’t play 15 plus games he might be done
Yeh calm down
@ he’s played 9 games in 4 years obviously very talented player but if his body isn’t right his body isn’t right.
Another long term injury and it could genuinely be the last straw, just needs to get out on the park.
@@scraggythebeast141 Essendon held Scott Gumbleton for 7 seasons. I can see this kid getting the same chance as that.
@@richardbehan8118 we have to be more ruthless he has the potential to be an all Australian if he can get out of the park I’ve watched a lot of him and love how he plays but 9 games in 4 years for a top 10 draft pick isnt ideal and he is holding the list spot of someone who might play.
Baldwin every day of the week. His body has been as issue yes, but his disposal by foot has looked elite when playing at afl level. A real point of difference in our defense. He was pencilled in to start round 1 over Laverde until he got injured. Much bigger upside and low risk as it’s SSP.
The best ability is availability my friend.
RELEASE THE HOARE'D!
Hopefully not too soon in the AFL
One of these boys has to be better/reliable with tons more enthusiasm rather then Coxs with all due respect.
Cox came back from a horrendous run of injuries and had a solid season considering how his confidence must have been wrecked. Twice kicked three goals in a game when played forward. Scott has no idea how to play him but he is a unique talent.
Cox is injury prone and has still managed to play much more than some of our other key defenders, we need some reliability.
Also do think Hayes debutes next year
I think so! He is currently well ahead of Baldwin and Hoare on the pecking order, so really it is all about depth with that SSP selection.
Think many of us have a soft spot for Baldwin, poor bloke just can't get a good run at it. Yes he's had time and shown glimpses but he's never given up. That is impressive in a cut throat environment like AFL. If his body really is unsuited for the rigours of AFL it's logical to assume the club medical and conditioning staff would have given him a tap on the shoulder. That's how I see it. When it comes to choosing the player for the list spot available, loyalties aside, best man gets it if the club pulls the trigger.
I would love for Baldwin to prove me wrong, I just doubt he is going to be a reliable player for the future, same with Reid.
Completely agree with you in that Kaine Baldwin as an SSP signing is fundamentally stupid as why would you add injury prone to an injury prone list. As you said only reason to sign SSPs is because you expect them to play footy. Baldwin even if fit just plays VFL for the majority of the year anyway so we’ll why not just add him to the VFL list, see if he sets the world alight(which such is dubious) then add him tfrom mid season draft as there is 100% chance Reid gets a 6 month set back from a headache.
I like that suggestion, he can earn his spot back through the mid-season draft if he manages to play regular footy.
Excellent analysis.
Has Hoare ever played at AFL level?
Nope, not yet.
Just because opposition fans don’t know him it doesn’t mean he can’t play
Please go and listen to Lunchtime Catch-Up Patreon episode from 30th November 2023. It’s the then VFL president Paul Cousins giving his honest opinion on Kaine Baldwin & it’s the complete opposite to what you said.
I see what you’re saying with his durability up until this point, however I reckon you’re the only Essendon person out there that doesn’t rate him. I watched every single VFL match in 2023 and was blown away by how above that standard he was. I also attended many trainings last pre-season & he was our best defender in most match simulations. I agree Baldwin has been riddled with injury, however his ample chances are a testament to how highly the club rated him.
I rate Baldwin, I just don't think his talent is worth persisting with if his body doesn't let him play. I also think Reid is under pressure and if he doesn't remain fit for most of the season could easily be delisted.
The lunch time podcast is low tier even as an Essendon fan I don’t rate their opinion at all
@@thejoeboganexperience7146 if you read my comment you would have known I was referring to the opinion of the then VFL President Paul Cousins, not that of the podcasters themselves.
Baldwin is done idk how he’s still in the running
Baldwin - he’s only 22, worth a crack , bigger size defender and someone who can hit a target reliably
Keep it for MSD
Will Hoare or wait for the mid season draft.
That is my thinking
Wait for mis-season
his AFL time is up i think im sorry Baldwin
Agreed, unfair but his body just isn't cut out for it.
Correct about Baldwin, you have to move on
Yep, he has had his chance unfortunately
I like baldwin but he is way too injury prone. I would rather Hoare
Same here!
No to Baldwin. Move on.
Agreed unfortunately.
I like baldwin... could be another daniher body wise...
But I'm thinking hoare for sure...
A good hoare is as important as any other
Could be a cheap hoare too
Grow up.
Why slander his last name? What does that add except a release of dopamine to your pea sized brain?
Daniher showed much more than Baldwin and fans had given up on his body.
Agree about Baldwin, we should move on, bloke has played 12 games in 3 years
He doesn’t have the ceiling of Reid and I think if Reid doesn’t 15 plus games this year he’s done
Yep, even Reid is under pressure, needs to play this year or I am ready to give up on him unfortunately.
Agree with that too fellas