INJECTOR MATH-HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT SIZE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- HOW DO YOU CHOOSE THE RIGHT SIZE INJECTOR? WHAT IS THE SALACIOUS 16? WHAT IS THE FORMULA TO CALCULATE HOW MUCH POWER YOU CAN MAKE WITH A PARTICULAR INJECTOR FOR A 4 CYLINDER, 6 CYLINDER OR 8 CYLINDER? HOW MUCH POWER CAN THE INJECTORS MAKE NA, UNDER BOOST OR WITH E85? IT'S ALL HERE IN THE VIDEO-SIMPLE MATH USED TO CALCULATE THE FLOW RATE VS HORSEPOWER. THEN CALCUALTE THE FLOW RATE VS HP UNDER BOOST AND THEN WITH E85. contact - killerbe16@aol.com
I feel like a mathematician after watching this! Simple math really, but knowing the equation is the key. Love how you stayed a cool cat being asked the same question 96million times, keep up the good work!🍻
Love the technical math sessions! Thanks for you’re time.
So, let’s look at this the other way around. How big do my injectors need to be if I want to make, for instance, 500 hp from a V8? 500/16 = 31.25 lb/hr injectors. That would support NA horsepower. For boost let’s divide by 0.8 or 0.85 which, mathematically, means multiply by 1.25 or so (exactly if you’re talking 0.8). So 500 hp boosted would require 31.25x1.25 = 39.06, or, let’s call it 40 lb/hr injectors. Next, what if I’m running E85? Richard says add 30% so that means multiply by 1.3, or 40x1.3 = 52 lb/hr injectors for a 500 hp boosted engine on E85. If your goal is 1200 hp from a V8, 1200/16x1.25x1.3 = 122 lb/hr injectors, at least. Giving yourself some wiggle room would always make sense. If you always want to run boost and E85 on your V8, we can simplify a bit more. The factors for boost and E85 together are just over 1.6, so if we divide horsepower by 10, we are very close to the minimum size injectors to support that power level. Going back to the 1200 hp V8, that’s 1200/10 = 120, very close to the previous answer. So, NA injector size (for a V8), is horsepower target divided by 16. For boost on E85, injector size is horsepower target divided by 10.
I dont mean to be offtopic but does anybody know a tool to get back into an Instagram account??
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@Finley Oakley instablaster ;)
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Chuckles has great energy. I am jelous. Also well explained.
For the L31 with the spider injectors, the answer is to go to a marine L31 intake. It takes a little modification to make it work on a truck, but it gets you over to normal external inectors and fuel rails.
Best video I've seen explaining injectors
I’ve been waiting for this video for months
Yes, the 3800 series 2 v6!!
Agreed, Great video.. This info needed to be addressed. PS Rich: I love when Im 5 min into your vids and I start typing something I think you're not going to bring up and then you say what Im thinking as Im writing my "smart ass" comment. Great job, again..
My 870cc(80lb) injectors x 8(4cyl) = 640hp. Under boost (x .85) = 544hp - 20psi/boost pressure = @524hp....Hmm. Perfect, that exactly where I am. My tuner was spot on! **Hey Rich, get a whiteboard!
Best video I've seen explaining the reason behind selecting injectors. Love the math brain side of it man, subbed!
Thanks for the sub!
I love all of your videos.
So much good information and using junkyard oem engines as a baseline is brilliant.
Keep up the good work.
Greatest explanation I've ever heard thank you
It's funny how the GM 60-degree V6 had aluminum heads since the late 80s, but the 90-degree V6 never got them.
Cliffs notes: Buy the biggest injector you can afford that will have a reasonable pulse width at idle.
Right........ because everyone knows exactly what the hell that means
@@baby-sharkgto4902 google big dawg
@@baby-sharkgto4902 probably best to use the formula Richard just described and pick a suitable injector. Using the "buy the biggest injector that has a reasonable pulse width" is a very loose and sketchy way to pick injectors. Especially considering that different efi systems have different driver parameters
Flex fuel injectors on mine are FLEX fuel with max of 43 psi .I'm not ever using E85 unless I'm ready to repair EVAP , sensors. Fuel pump and what ever else plugs up .
For the record, golf ball dimples reduce drag, increase flight path consistency, and accordingly they increase speed and distance. Golf ball dimples make for a good golf ball 🤷♂️ they learned that after they beat one for so long it was dimpled. Lol. Analogical and what not
Don't miss it show
Really like 351 windsors, got 3, one is a 95 roller. One is a ,.040 over low mile motory wife ran hot!! Just can't resist a cheap turbo build, 8lb, or less. Blow thru!!! Cast pistons in it, stock rod bolts!! Gotta try it. Saw u make 743 ph@ 7.4 lbs. boost! I selling the cam? My son has 2 late model gts. Can't wait to see the look on their faces!! Now, some traction bars-drag radial, and gallon or so of primer, and fuel pump- blow thru carb!!
You've touched on all my loves....except the Jeep 4.0 stuff
Hint ☝️
It is just a matter of time until these Jeeps get a 5.3 LS
thanks for breaking it down . I love this channel .
Patience is a virtue. Cheers!
Please get back to me because u are my man. I've learned everything from you. U are an absolute Guru to me Richard ty for all your work
I would like twin turbo manifolds I've learned that they hold the heat way better. I'm not looking to glow in the dark especially since it's going under an 84 Corvette hood and clearance is imperative.
Btw, this is exactly what I needed. My son and I are finally doing bench race smack talk, his yota vrs my caddy, both turboed.
Dude man thank you. Just calculated the math on my hellcat total amount of power I can reach with the stock injectors thanks to you. So by my rough calculations on a 57lb injector I can 912 crank hp but that’s obviously not counting a roughly calculated 12% drive train loss equaling 802 hp on a dyno inside a car. And because it’s got boost and I times 912 hp by .85 =775.2 hp so what I minus 12% drive train loss from this and get 682hp when the car dynos around 625 hp stock, so in reality it’s fairly close to it’s maximum duty cycle?
Thank you for all of the awesome information Rich!!!!💪🏻
Good info Rich
Thanks 👍
First time watching you discuss injectors. It's also my first time on your platform. It's there any guidelines for parts on the k24 to achieve 1500hp?
The car is being used for 1.8 and 1/4 miles drags
1500 hp on what fuel?
You the MAN Richard! Thanks
A quicky calculation to adjust injector flow rate to compensate for different supply pressure is to take the square root of the ratio of the new pressure to the original pressure, and multiply that number by the injector flow rate. Say you have a 25 lb/hr injector that was originally rated at 43 psi, but you want to run it at 58 psi. The new flow rate would be 25 * square root(58/43) = 29 lb/hr
yes-I didn't want to get that far into it
Thank you for demystifying the pound per hour versus HP. lb x2 for HP per injector,
Where it gets tricky is when you have a high rpm engine, because the amount of time the injector has to operate gets smaller at higher RPM. The time the engine takes to complete the combustion cycle is shorter as your rpm goes up. For example if you have an engine with a rev limiter at 5,000 rpm it takes 12 milliseconds to complete the 4 strokes (intake, compression, combustion, exhaust). At 5,000 rpm your injector only has 12 milliseconds to operate, meaning at 80% duty cycle it could only stay on for 8.6 milliseconds. If you had an engine that made the same horsepower, but revved to 7,000 rpm, you would only have 8.6 milliseconds to operate, meaning only 6.9 milliseconds of on time at 80% duty cycle. You will need a larger injector for a 7,000 rpm engine than a 5,000 rpm engine even if they make the same exact horsepower, because it will have to flow the same amount of fuel in 6.9 milliseconds instead of 8.6 milliseconds.(excerpt)
once the injector is static-and the injection window is limited by engine speed-you need a bigger injector
@@richardholdener1727 ya I found that out the hard way at one point.Thanks again for a great vid.
@Robert Bandy no sir.
@Robert Bandy I swiped this excerpt from an article some time ago (like 3 yrs ago or so)and bring it up sometimes because 1 he explains it without slaughtering the English language like I do and 2 I'm lazy as shit sometimes lol.But I work on motorcycles and some spin to 15,000 rpms so the windows narrow..I dont even do cars but I can really appreciate what richard does and just how much time he spends fo all of use to enjoy.
You're right on about the sponsorship. They're loss.
Best to keep the injector around 80- 85% duty cycle.
even old school! Thanks Richard!
Be great if you were in south Florida! A great engine builder you are!
I'M MORE OF AN ENGINE ASSEMBLER
there a damn textbook out there some damn where on this subject but ill be damned if I know where to cop one.
How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
Yes,FINALLY!! CADILLAC POWER BABY!!!
Great video. A lot of great information. Thanks so much for your time and dedication. What is the chance of a follow up video on sizing fuel pumps up against a set of injectors?
All the best.
boost reference the fuel tank so the stock pump produces the added fuel pressure for boost. custom tank recomended. check valve rated for boost pressure.
the fuel tank?
You need to have a winter yard sale man.
I'm dying to see your test on the 3800 series ll engine since I have a supercharged Monte Carlo.
GM Gen V Direct Injection should be next video
The engine has been out since 2014. It’s in all of GM’s high performance vehicles and SUV’s and Trucks.
Lots of misinformation out there about the limitations of the fuel system.
Questions:
How much HP will the stock Gen V LT1 fuel system will support?
Which component runs out first...High Pressure Fuel Pump, Injectors, Low Side Pump?
A popular option is a cam with increased fuel lobe (+32-38%). I would go ahead and assume that anyone who is going to exceed the stock fueling is already doing a cam swap...so I would use this as a starting point.
Another popular upgrade seems to be installing the HPFP from the LT4 ($750).
For those who don’t want to get into the fuel tank...is a Boost A Pump ($400) a reasonable alternative to upgrading the Lowside fuel pump?
At what power level will the LT1 injectors run out of gas...pun intended.
LT1 Gen V
123lbs/hr @ 2205 psi
LT4
141lbs/hr @ 2940 psi
The injector question could be based off youtube people as urself like the sloppy mechanics and decap the stock injector i believe some of the factory decapped injectors have a flow almost doubled being in the 50-70 lbs a hour range not sure been a while since i watched the video. The basic setup was factory injector deremeled the cap / jet oriffice plate /tip off lol. The remainder of the injector is "decapped and flows almost double so cleaned and ...? Idk never tried this
Where can I find the injectors and fuel pump to support my application , I'm aiming 700-800hp?
Hey Richard,
Will a LS injector fit an 8.1 ? if not where is a good place to look ? Thanks
Can you do video on the quietest hydraulic lifter and spring combos that work well with the most common cam upgrades?
Im running the new truck norris cam with comp cam 850-16 lifters and comp cam .580 lift springs which are supposed to be compatible in 243 heads on a 364ci 5.3l but cant seem to avoid the dreaded lifter tick to save my life and its driving me nuts lol. PLEASE HELP! 🙏
Have you looked at low budget injector mods? I have seen a few articles and vids on decapping stock injectors to run max power boosted on E85 without spending tons of cash. Makes sense to me as stock injectors are also dead reliable and if your tuning is up to par, it's effectively just a bigger injector.
the problem is they don't all flow the same after decapping
@@richardholdener1727 So basically, you collect a bunch of stock injectors, decap them, use one of the fuel rails they came with and make a test jig to run sea foam through them and then flow test them to match a set. I can still see it being done on the cheap.
I can even see it being easier to tune, since you can use the stock injector tables, easily scaled by a simple multiplier of the before vs after change flow percentage.
Now we are talking ultimate budget savings and who knows, once you try a few you might even end up with a bunch of matched spares.
I wanted to see that calculator you're holding up in the preview. Is that an old HP RPN? I had a 48SX in the late 80s.
its OG
I’m late to the party Richard (2 months I know ) I blame my job lol 😂 do you have any B Series stuff left over to sell from back in the day ?!
I have a B16A head-brand new but it is from Speedmaster -killerbe16@aol.com if interested
Good info!
Holdener Rocks! Great presentation! Teslas Vortec? 3-6-9?
Hi Richard. I have a set of 42# injectors on my b230ft and I'm maxing them out around 4500 rpm in 3rd/4th. I have just been using my throttle pedal to keep from leaning out. I'm not sure what to choose as a bigger set of injectors to support the amount of power my car wants to make.
Question... it would seem to me that for a given power level, the MORE cylinders you are running, the lower lb per hr injectors you need...
Is this generally true or am I thinking about this incorrectly?
Lol.... and bam.... 2 minutes later you covered this question.... NICE.
YES-MORE CYLINDERS EQUAL SMALLER INJECTOR FOR ANY GIVEN POWER OUTPUT (CUZ THERE ARE MORE OF THEM)
Also don't turn up your fuel pressure too high you might start a fire.
the LS3 stock injectors are 42lb/hr injectors and make well over 400hp.
i think you mean 42 pound and they will support a lot more than 400 hp-since the motor already makes 430 hp stock
@@richardholdener1727 fixed it
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball. Have you ever seen stock 302 fuel rails be a limiting factor?
I'M SURE AT SOME POWER LEVEL-NOT SURE WHAT THAT IS
@@richardholdener1727 I used to reference an article you wrote about a 500hp 302 w/Kenne Bell, XE274 and AFR heads but the site doesn't show the graphs or pics any more.
Thanks
Very interesting info for us noobs
5.7 hemi with 14-15 psi of boost on E85 to get around 800rwhp, what would your recommendation be? I was looking at 95lbs injectors.
How can I learn directly
Richard what do u have for ls stuff I might take it all. What about a Cadillac supercharger hint hint
the cad blower was returned to the owner
gen 3 4.8
862 heads
gen 4 pistons and rods.
pqy head studs
(PAC-1218) valve springs
sloppy stage 2 cam
tbss intakes
decapped flex fuel injectors 80#
elgin chromolly pushrods
Was running 800 hp boosted now converting to na do I have to worry about over fueling at idle with the 80 lb injectors? I plan on running the Holley Terminator x is this something I can manage
the ecu tune controls how much fuel you have at idle
So in regards to the boost referenced fuel pump pressure. Are you saying your regulator needs to allow for an increase in fuel pressure to counterbalance your boost pressure. If so, how would one do that? Does the regulator somehow read how much boost you are running and increase its allowable pressure by that amount? Maybe I'm reading into this too deeply.
Love the information
how about get a factory 1G AWD automatic flex plate from a 4G63 DSM (for testing a 6-bolt).. should be easy to drill new holes to bolt it to whatever other fixture to bolt it to your dyno, then it's just the bellhousing adaptation maybe cut a broken trans for the bellhousing?... but we want it!
Are there different spray patterns , within the EV14 injectors .
yes
I have been wondering how boost pressure and back pressure against the back side of the valves affect valve spring efficiency.
Injector Dynamics has a good technical table showing the output of each of their injectors by fuel pressure. I'm running their ID1050X at 4 Bar and supporting 1,200+hp turbo Gen3 Hemi on 93 octane pump gas.
I have a 2004 Honda Civic si N/A 160hp stock, it is getting boosted. With a .63 a.r. Turbo. I’m going for 10lbs of boost. I just don’t know if stock injectors and stock fuel pump will be significant to run it. If not what size injectors and fuel pump lbs would I have to run.
definitely need bigger injectors and pump and tune
Is there a tool for the 4.0tool to take it out
For a low RPM high torque Big Block (Olds 455) in a motorhome (MPFI conversion) does running high pressure injectors help with atomization using E85?
not significantly -efi will get better fuel milage if that is your concern due to the ability to fine tune it
I think I'm asking about maintaining maximum atomization. Fuel economy will be nice, but want to maximize efficiency while driving a 12,000lb motorhome.
20 minutes in and you haven't explained how to calculate a fuel injector size yet. Injectors are specified in cc/min as the density and weight of fuel can be different, so stating what you need in weight/hour is not accurate. All the videos and online calculators are terrible.
YOU ARE INCORRECT
Hello Richard I have 4 100lb injectors in my sniper is upgrading to 120lbs be worth the work
Yes The Chevy 31& 3800 V6
Do you have a manifold that will go to a 351 Windsor and the duel M90 superchargers
there is no such thing-it has to be made
Would like to know if you can help wondering what size injector for oldsmobile 350DX block roots blown 16 efi injector plate look at 1000hp to 1500hp depending on what type of fuel and boost thanks
1500 HP WITH WHAT FUEL?
@@richardholdener1727 i wanted to do methanol but i hear how corrosive it is and how you can't leave it in your tank for long so my other 3 choices are sunoco 260 gtx (98 octan ethanol free) or sunoco 260gt (100 octane) or sunoco 260gt plus (104 octane) can i reach that hp level with any of them got a 8-71 littlefield hi helix 18 point teflon stripped delta bottom blower a big and ulgy3 efi jector hat with the 4 3/8 butterflies .60 over bore billet crank with 4"stroke big block aluminum edlebrock head with custom hogans manifold thanks for the reply
A stock injector (EDIT: plus turbo to 800+ hp)? Hahaha... Technically its possible if you ran an absurd fuel pressure, or send them off to FIC but then theyre internally rebuilt to a higher flow rate and not 20-24lb/hr or w/e you have stock.
hey richard great video thanks but do you have any 5.0 stuff you want to get rid of im looking for cam heads
cams likely
i have a 94 gt with stock 302 looking for more performance?
thank you for the reminder math. its been a little bit of time passed since this lone wolf lol needed to use this. my 350 olds is getting a custom injection system. i m building it. sneak peak. the rocket will have a "clingon" effect. the war bird!
How much variance does raising or lowering the rail pressure have .
I have the largest collection of 1999 Buick Rivieras in the world I was told that this year Riv has the largest injectors at 4.8 than any car on the road today? Yea or Nay
4.8?
What size injectors are needed for a 6.4 hemi with whipple running 10lbs of boost. Roughly 900 hp
1000 CC
Thanks, will the 1000cc support e85 as well as other mods I mentioned?
Some bsfc numbers would be awesome on your graphs
Hey Richard need best bang for buck on 5.3 cammed 545/545 lift, possible Turbo T76,80mm. Stock PCM . So will 50-60 pound injectors support 700-800 HP to wheel. E36 chassis?
I still have the Ford v10 if you are interested let me know.
is it all stock
@@richardholdener1727 yes it is all stock. It has 600k and still runs.
Hi Richard, great info and knowledge! I am running 36LB on my 400hp Mercedes 4 valve, 5.0 litres M119. No adjustable ECU. She is a little rice at idle. But ok wide open. What adjustments would you advise? I am running large injectors, using the sweet 16 rule
needs tuning-or add boost with the extra fuel
I have a 96 LT1 can I use stock if you injectors to make 400 to 450 horse
no
Any cams for a 5.3ls?
52lbs/hr for LS9 stock injector
Anything for a 4.6 3v..??
Hot rod cams.. Ford racing intake.. long tubes
Hi i have 1992 mustang with 306 engine trackflow heads and je piston with t70 turbo 10 of boost and i have 50 injctor so would you made the culcletorfor my to know is it coracet inj and what should i need fuel prucher to regulater
50 pound/hr injectors will be fine for that power level -near 600 hp
So how about the regulater prusser
I don't have the link but I'm pretty sure Ford and GM paid for rights to the Mercedes M117 V8 and used that to produce the Mod and LS respectively.
This is most certainly not anywhere close to true. There's some ignorant ass Mercedes fanboys that act like Mercedes invented deep skirt/cross bolt main style bottom ends just because the 117 is a V8 with that style bottom end(because Ford & GM couldn't copy deep skirt V6s for their V8s, right? They would've never "got it" if they didn't have a V8 to copy, I guess...) - meanwhile, the Ford FE is a deep skirt/cross bolt main style block that first came out in 1958, before the 117 was even designed(guess that means Mercedes copied Ford - right? Isn't that how this game works?). And the Ford Y-block, also a deep skirt, came out in 1954. Even the flathead V8 before that had a bit of a semi-deep skirt that supported the main caps up their entire height(the pan rail is even with the top of the main caps, which extend widthwise to each pan rail, like deep skirt blocks), it's just not quite as 'deep'.
File this one under fanboy garbage - Mercedes was as likely to be influenced by Ford's deep skirt blocks as much as GM was likely to be influenced by Mercedes's deep skirt blocks. And, none of these companies 'invented' the deep skirt style block, at least not at any point after 1950(no idea if anyone even knows who mass produced the first deep skirt block, but it was certainly closer to 1900 than 1970).
@@RyTrapp0 i really Appreciate this comment.
I have a 13 gmc Sierra 5.3 with a bad lifter. Getting ready to do a did delete. What brand lifter and cam should I go back with? Also can I increase the cam size to add more power and still maintain reliability and 14.5 mpg. If so what's size cam should I go with?
Check out GPI(gwaltney performance) they have a great package for your truck. I just did one of their stage 2 high lift in a Tahoe and it us awesome, I have their ss4 in my camaro. Great customer service
Off topic but in your opinion is a gt45 to small on a l29 for 1/8 mile bracket racing?
IT MAKES ABOUT 700 HP WITH VERY HIGH BACK PRESSURE
@@richardholdener1727 too high for a 5.50 6.00 second 1/8 pull on e85 or even straight m5 ethanol? Seems like it'd spool fast and have wicked throttle response.
How much can you bore an LS-6, LS-3?
VERY LITTLE
How do I know what the stock flow lb is
easy to look up on line for your motor
Do you have any Ford 4.6 dohc stuff in your storage for sale?
no sir
The calculation is for flywheel HP, or wheel HP? Talking about NA
fly hp
@@richardholdener1727 thanks,
What's some good budget injector for e85 lq4 700-850 hp turbo
deka 80