Let's Duel! - Sherlock (2010-2017) vs Elementary (2012-2019)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2020
- Hey remember that Sherlock Holmes show? "Which one?" you ask? Exactly, I reply! But also, which one was best? The American show with one of Charlie's Angels or the British show with Dr. Strange and Bilbo Baggins.
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Elementary's Sherlock uses logic, reasoning and deduction to solve crimes.
Sherlock's Sherlock uses magic and lazy writing to solve crimes.
Exactly
What can you expect from Doctor Who writers lol
Normies when a Sherlock Holmes show is about Sherlock Holmes.
@@justsomeguywholikesmangoes1363 Read the books.
You are confusing deduction with induction and abduction. Many people do. Even the writers of these shows. Google it ;)
I feel like in Sherlock managed to make more jokes about Holmes and Watson being a couple then Elementary did, and I was so worried when the show first came out that when they made Watson a woman they were gonna force the characters into a romantic thing but then they didn't even have pretend flirting or people always mistaking them as a couple
yeah the show could've been cheesy very easily but it didn't
i was so sure that watson being woman was only for them to get together romantically. I've never been more glad to be wrong. we need more male-female friendships in media
Yes, they treated Joan Watson as an equal in the show, a woman of intelligence and cool logic, but with a big heart. She was a match for Holmes, not his pet or puppet.
Im so glad to see Elementary getting the love it deserves! So many praised Sherlock when it came out but scoffed at me when I recommended Elementary
i loved elementary and watched every season when i was about 13, now a few years later i’m rewatching it and i love it even more! especially as i now see him as autistic coded, and as someone w ASD, i love how he’s realistically coded. obviously he likely isn’t actually autistic and that’s said in the show, however the portrayal of him as a human, as opposed to a bloody robot (i’m stoned, this might not make any sense)
While Elementary does go off the chain at times in the later seasons, the last episode of Elementary is the only network TV show that has made me cry. I won't spoil the details, but it's so clear that Sherlock and Watson absolutely, unselfishly love each other. There's no romantic implications, no sexual tension. It's just two friends who love each other more than anything else in the world, and that relationship is what the whole show hinges on. And the payoff for seven seasons of it building is amazing.
Meanwhile, I don't think the BBC's sherlock is capable of that kind of emotion.
I couldn't be happier with Elementary for keeping any hints of romance out of Sherlock and Watson's relationship. They understand each other, they complement each other, they love each other. They are partners, families, and soulmates. Making them lovers would have cheapened it.
I prefer Elementary mainly because they give exact, comprehensive reasons based on solid evidence and solve cases methodically with the addition of trademark sherlock genius. The show Sherlock is 100 percent Sherlock genius which is actually not such a great thing since all the thinking happens in his head with the occasional floating text on screen. We dont get a good enough look into his head!
Exactly, a good mystery movie or TV show takes you along for the ride. Sherlock just leaves you in the parking lot waiting and then comes back and goes “oh you didn’t see all that? It was crazy bro!”
@@WoodstockProd very well put!
I think you read my mind👌
I think you read my mind👌
Jonny Lee Miller's Sherlock Holmes is actually a true modernized interpretation of the original literary Sherlock from Conan Doyle's stories while Cumberbatch's Sherlock just raised the character's anti-social attitude up to 11 to the point he's an absolute unlikable jerk.
I remember watching a moment in series three that just made me audibly go “you c***t.”
@@WoodstockProd yeah, I haven't even bothered watching Series 4 after hearing all the negative reactions to its conclusion.
@@Elementa2006 I haven’t watched it either, though I heard a bizarre conspiracy theory there would be a secret fourth episode that would air in place of the premiere of another show called Apple Tree Yard
I think that one thing Sherlock does better than Elementary is Sherlock's brother, who is much more in line with the original character from the books, but obviously he isn't a character in the first season of Elementary so it's difficult to compare
I thought about talking about the two Mycrofts but like you said, he isn’t in season one
But Elementary has John Noble for Sherlock's father, and their relationship is hell, acted very well.
@@Myrdden71 I totally agree, I do feel like Elementary used Sherlock's father more like the original Mycroft is in the stories especially in those few seasons when the character was actually on screen and not just mentioned
@@rachelzahava8292 And of course there is the inimitable Clyde the tortoise whom Holmes uses for experiments and to wake up Joan!
Another reason why Elementary is better. It actually uses the source materials better. In fact some lines are lifted right out of the books and they don't look out of place. In the episode where EM (Elementary Holmes) describes Adler as someone who "eclipses and predominates the whole of her sex." That line is directly lifted from the book "A Scandal in Bohemia".
Nice! I’ve never read the actual books but I think it’s cool that the show referenced them
@@WoodstockProd There is another I know of the top of my head. The part where he is saying he hates blackmailers, sometimes more than murderers, is also in one of the books. That episode is actually based on one of the canon Sherlock stories.
@@Awfulwriter what a coincidence I just watched that episode with that line. Season 1 Ep 20: Dead Man's Switch
Same and "Sherlock's fallen" was not like fallen and like he started using drugs again
This remains me, when (elementary) Sherlock talks about crazy thoughts about drugs. He basically explains to audience (together with other things) that he isn't just Sherlock Holmes who is drug addict, live in USA etc., but more like original Sherlock Holmes in our times and how it changed him.
I was already a bit biased since I preferred Elementary over Sherlock before even watching this, but this video essay helped me clarify why I prefer Elementary. I also really enjoyed Sherlock, especially when I was younger, and I think I actually enjoy their mysteries more - or at least I used to. I actually haven’t watched it since the finale. But what you said about the characters and the Moriarty story is why I like Elementary better. It’s more satisfying, and as a fan who actually likes the characters and want them to be more than plot pieces, I thought Elementary gave their characters better storylines and development.
Agreed, I really liked Sherlock when I first watched it back in the day when I was in high school, but rewatching it was like a switch had gone off in my head and it was like “wait, why did I like this when I was 18?”
Completely agree. Whilst both are entertaining Johnny’s Sherlock feels like he could be real whereas Cumberbunch’s seems like a caricature.
I've seen both shows. And I, for one, absolutely loveeeeeeee Elementary. The relationship between Sherlock Holmes and Joan Watson in that particular series is not given, but earned through trial and error - as is so often the case in real life, too. Joan Watson had to earn Sherlock's trust throughout the series, and in turn, Sherlock came to gradually learn and build trust and foundations for several meaningful relationships in the series. They also give a brilliant portrayal and unique perspective on Sherlock, and his constant battle with addiction and sobriety. Something no series has explored yet. And lastly, there was nothing sexual about their relationship in Elementary - it was truly, unadulterated, love between two people.
Sherlock, on BBC, was a miss for me. The 1st series was spectacular. But the later series tried too hard to be clever, to the point where it had become too much about Sherlock and his obsessions, and not so much about the people, and relationships that surround him.
I strongly recommend Elementary - 10/10.
Sherlock is a pass for me.
Completely agreed
Let me say, I was once really into BBC Sherlock when I was in middle school, early high school. And it wasn't until around college that I binge watched Elementary. Didn't even know it was a thing until I found it on accident, and took a chance because I love Lucy Liu's work.
I just wanna appreciate the fact that not only do they respect Watson as a person, but Sherlock sees her as his equal rather than just an assistant/sidekick. She becomes her own private investigator when Sherlock briefly leaves. Not only that, they acknowledge that Sherlock is not some omniscient genius who can solve everything on his own. He has connections and reaches out to other smart people who are experts in their fields when he needs help all the time. In things like math, like really complicated math.
But yes, in short, Elementary is the better Sherlock show even though it was short sold because it's an American show and people didn't expect much from it.
The platonic love between them was beautiful (and so rare on tv shows)
Elementary wins every time, and you didn’t even have to bring up the awesome John Noble ❤ The growth both Sherlock and Joan show over the series, is beautiful (I do love Una Stubbs though, bless her - she’s often played slyly subversive characters)
John Noble's dark father-figure was wonderful and terrifying!
Completely agree! especially the Irene Adler thing.
I tried watching elementary many years ago when it was airing and it feels boring especially compared to Sherlock. But I binged it recently with a fresh mind and was completely blown away when I realized how much they were gonna focus on his struggle with addiction. That was a light bulb moment that hooked me in.
┻━┻ ︵ ＼( °□° )／ ︵ ┻━┻
I'm actually not even a fan of crime dramas but I still fell in love with the characters and all the little details For eg: Sherlock getting bored of attending AA meetings because he thinks he is better than everyone and Joan reminding him that everyone gets bored and he isn't extraordinary for feeling that way or Sherlock thinking that his work keeps him sober and later realizing that sobriety shouldn't be dependent on anything.
Im now gonna go preach this show to anyone who'll listen. (✿◠‿◠)
I’m glad you liked it so much!
i've been trying to get my friend to watch it for YEARS but she thinks it quite boring and too mature for the og sherlock
@@kittykat5980 I think part of the appeal with Sherlock is how zany and eye catching it is, while Elementary is more of a straight forward crime show
Yea! 👏 Jonny killed it. Still watch a little Elementary every week. Performance and writing are the comfort food of content.
Same, i finished Elementary at last week but now Im again at 1 season 😆
@@iminara5443 especially fond of Snow Angels and Red Team and Rat Race; but season is filled with great episodes.
i loled multiple times during the comparison bc ITS SO HONEST LMFAO. i loved sherlock as a kid mostly bc of the great production value, and as a kid i thought it was funny how sherlock had a genius complex and was immature and ugly to everyone around him..bc i was going thru my teenage years and was in some ways very similar lol. the writing is to be brutally honest childish and delusional, but i won’t forget how the show made me want to visit london! on the other hand it’s quite obvious how superior elementary is just objectively based on quality of writing representation of women in the writer/producers’ rooms (and it really shows). the women characters in this show are quite outstanding and it’s very enjoyable to watch. the character development is stellar. every character from main to extra are treated as human beings and each case feels 3D. the logic is tight and very smart. it refuses to fall into the mad/misogynistic genius trope by exposing how actually, sherlock isn’t actually superior to people around him, he’s only deluded himself of that in order to cope with fear of vulnerability. it’s just not in the same ballpark as BBC’s sherlock - like comparing a real apple to a plastic one.
Exactly, Jonny Lee’s Sherlock is a guy who actually has stuff going on while Benedict is just a trope that the writers didn’t build anything on top of. Jonny Lee is allowed to be wrong at times, but Benedict is seemingly allowed to be a jerk because he’s just so darn smart
@@WoodstockProd and this Sherlock is humble...he feels remorse if he's wrong like getting bell shot or endangering Joan's job in the aftermath of his relapse...and he's also not so self conceited that he won't accept help..that's the best part...him consulting other "irregulars" who are experts in their field...or being humbled by everyone for their help ..it just seems more realistic if it makes sense?
@@nehabhageria9877 exactly, I remember not liking the line about Google in the previews for the show back in 2012, but in hindsight it makes perfect sense. A great detective isn’t omniscient, they’re just good at observing things and putting two and two together
Elementary is quite a gem!
I’d have to agree
Agree👏🏻
I liked both shows, but I loved Elementary. It's so good to see it getting the respect it deserves.
Wish Elementary’s Ms. Hudson had more screentime 😭 I loved her
She’s awesome!
And i love how in Elementary at first ep We probed Sherlock's character. He was very British, wearing a scarf and a coat, but then the writers walked away from it. And it was better for show
I’m super biased because I prefer Elementary. (I’m a total slut for copaganda I can’t lie) Specifically how they portrayed Watson and Holmes as platonic soulmates without forcing heteronormativity
It’s pretty great
I definitely was a bigger fan of Elementary, I watched only the 1st season of Sherlock and wasn’t interested in more. Honestly though, I never finished all of Elementary and was sad to hear that Moriarty doesn’t play as big a role in the last seasons as I hoped she would. All that said, I do have plans to finish the remaining seasons of Elementary (I got to mid season 4)
There’s literally only 1 tv show I’ve ever seen thats rated 100% both from the critics and audience for every season it has and it managed it for 7, elementary is clear not just of Sherlock but of any tv show that’s existed
When Elementary first came out 10 years ago, I remember everyone hating it, dismissing it as an inferior knockoff of Sherlock. Like, if those "mom, can we watch x" "no, we have x at home" jokes existed 10 years ago, people would say Sherlock is X and Elementary is X at home. Even Honest Trailer sort of made that joke in their Sherlock video (because of course a stupid garbage web series like Honest Trailers would). The point is, I was really bummed out because I loved Elementary from the start. Now, nothing makes me happier to know that Elementary is getting the praise it deserves, even if the praise is retrospectively and/or late.
I've never seen Elementary, but a good friend forced me to watch Sherlock with her. The whole time she was raving about how awesome Sherlock was, and I uhh... well, I watched the hbomberguy video several years later and it basically summed up my every thought about that terrible show. Really wish I'd watched Elementary instead.
I strongly recommend it!
@@WoodstockProd me too....
So to summarize, the two points that Sherlock actually got were:
- A character who was barely in season 1 of Elementary, but Elementary got a half point for her anyway.
- A character who in Elementary was only a fake persona, used by a different character that Elementary got the point for.
I find this hilarious.
And I agree, Elementary is the much better modernised TV adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.
Even when I tried to be fair, it was still a landslide 😅
I watched Sherlock first and thought it was a brilliant, modern take on such an iconic character. Watched Series 1 and 2 and thought, by and large, the series was high quality from top to bottom. I had no interest in watching Elementary as I thought it would be a typical American-ifying of a British show. Then Series 3 came out of Sherlock and wow was that a disappointment. Then i started watching Elementary and right off the bat, I loved it. Again, it worked and actually being a British character in America made the show work in an ever better way than Sherlock does in modern London.
The good for me in Sherlock: Benedict Cumberbatch's portrayal is great. The plots in Series 1 and 2 were pretty well executed and the production values were very high. The teasing of Moriarty was perfect: sinister and manipulative and gives a great sense of someone not to be trifled with. Mrs Hudson was a fun character too. There but not so much as to be in the way, and the Doyle tropes were also present in good qualities.
The bad for me in Sherlock: Watson. WTF. What exactly does he bring to the show? "What's going on?" "Who are you?" "why's that?" "not clear to me" "that's amazing" "how did you do that?" - that's his entire character. He's supposed to be a medical man first and foremost. In the first episode he's out medicaled by Sherlock at the crime scene. In the 2nd and 3rd episodes he's captured, he goes on a self-righteous dialogue about the kidnapped woman in the 3rd episode and tries to prove that you should care about people, that Sherlock admits he doesn't, and then gets his point across by NOT helping to find them?? And he directly leads to Chinese lady getting killed in the 2nd episode because he "has to go and help Sherlock" when he's being shot at (which he doesnt). The show would be better off without him as he offers nothing. Also Moriarty is wayyy too camp, theatrical and over the top and not the character we are led to believe would be appearing by his off-screen interactions in the previous episodes. Would've been better and more threatening with a more understated performer.
The good for me in Elementary: JLM is a more rounded, fleshed out Sherlock and has a full character arc and has a proper backstory. He's a more nuanced character and therefor more easily relatable. Watson is more believable and the fact that she shows strengths and weaknesses of her own and has an arc and her own story is also more believable.
The supporting characters are all well fleshed out.
The bad for me in Elementary. Continuity across the series as a whole. A minor gripe but still.
Overall i enjoy Elementary far more as a more complete show than Sherlock and the fact that Series 3 and 4 of Sherlock was absolutely dire doesn't help where the quality of Elementary was consistently high across all seasons.
I'm glad you enjoyed the show!
100% Elementary
There is another modern day Sherlock Holmes adaptation now- a podcast called Sherlock and Co. I have not watched either Elementary or Sherlock, so I can't say as to how it compares to them, but it is really good so far. It is fairly new (the first episode came out in october) and they are planning to adapt every single sherlock holmes story (including the novels at some point). The stories they have done so far have been really well adapted but my favourite part is that their Sherlock canonically has autism and adhd!
It's a great podcast and I highly recommend it, there are lots of funny moments to enjoy. There's also a new episode every Tuesday!
That sounds pretty cool!
SHERLOCK&CO REP YESSS! Absolutely amazing podcast and I’m glad more people know about it :D!
Ohhhhh I will have to check this out 😮 I’m a huge fan of the original stories
Elementary is an amazing show and it genuinely brings me such elation to see more people appreciate it
Thank you! I’ve been saying this since the beginning and people acted like I was not high brow enough to get “Sherlock”.
Not high brow enough? It’s BBC Sherlock not fucking Tree of Life
Elementary.
I’d have to agree
sometimes i feel like sherlock is the holmes adaption for extroverts and elementary for introverts lol
Thought you were gonna bash elementary none stop, pleasantly surprised and wholeheartedly agree with you.
Funny....why choose...i like them both!!..now we need a 3rd one
How many times in the show did they refer or "make fun" of Sherlock and John being a couple vs How many times do they refer as Joan or Sherlock. May be wrong but it may have been once.
In Elementary it was like three or four times the whole season, in Sherlock it was like three or four times a damn episode
Even more importantly, in Elementary the couple thing is never dwelt upon. When someone refers to Joan and Sherlock as a couple (and it doesn’t happen very often), they just let it go. There is no outrage, no screaming, none of that I’M NOT HIS GIRLFRIEND!!! crap that BBC Sherlock pulls. And when Joan tries to explain their relationship to someone, it’s for a good plot reason - for example like when she had to explain to Gregson that she was Sherlock’s sober companion because she needed help with finding him to prevent a relapse. And sure, sometimes there’s a joke about it - like their first meeting, or when Sherlock paid Alistair to pose as his father - but those are fairly few and far between, and backed up by that Sherlock was trying to get a rise out of Joan. They are a part of their relationship at the time, part of Sherlock testing the waters. In BBC Sherlock they’re self-serving; they do nothing to further the plot or the relationship. It’s pathetic really. It should be so much easier to portray a male-male friendship (since people are not conditioned to expect two male leads to pair up) but somehow, BBC Sherlock couldn’t do a half good as job as Elementary did- and not just with Sherlock and Joan, but also with Sherlock and Kitty.
I read the Sherlock Holmes books growing up (still have a few) and enjoyed the stories, plot twists and friendship between Watson and Holmes. I see that in Elementary and did enjoy the show when it was on. Never saw Sherlock so I can't judge.
Fair enough!
Lucy was the best Watson IMHO. The chemistry between Johnny Lee and Lucy was top notch
My favorite version is Sherlock
To each their own!
Loved this. Only critique is that I would give one additional point to Sherlock for its superior production values and visuals
Honestly, I think I’d even give that one to Elementary too. Sherlock is very flashy, but I like the visuals in Elementary more. It feels more natural, more earthy and warm. It’s a great vibe for curling up on your couch on a Thursday night after work and just relaxing with some good tv
This is the best and most solid comparsion of both shows. I really enjoyed Elementry and I need to rewatch!
This review is such good shit as well. I am currently on my xth rewatch (I've lost count...) This time, I'm focusing on the two lead actors' acting, how they portray the development of their characters and relationship with each other. The nuanced performance is really impressive.
I’m so glad you like it!
I love both Shows
While waiting for the upcoming seasons of Sherlock (hopefully), I will watch Elementary. First time hearing about the show.Thanks for sharing this!
Sorry I didn't finish the video to avoid any spoilers. I'll just come back after😅
I hope you enjoy it!
THANK YOU!!!! I LOVE ELEMENTARY, AND I SORT OF LIKE SHERLOCK. I LOVED JOAN A LOT!!! Especially when she became a detective herself
Great video I have been debating weather to give elementry a go and I think I will after your vid I already knew about the Janie twist. Its a, shame after the reveal Irene doesn't come back but makes sense. Yet after Janie is captured we never see her again 😒.
Do you feel the show ended well it is, worth sticking through all 7 seasons??
I haven’t seen the whole series, whether it’s worth it is your call
@@WoodstockProd ah OK. Do you plan to review each season or anything as this video was great
@@FilmFan-iv7sz I might! Who knows?
@@WoodstockProd cool
Yes and yes. Elementary is an intriguing delight from first to last episode ♥️
I agree for the most part. What i don't really agree with is Irine, i liked Irine from BBC but i liked more Irine's relationship with Sherlock from Elementary. Other than that, i agree with everything and i really liked the video and your jokes. I watched both shows and i was sceptical before starting Elementary as i watched BBC Sherlock first and i was a fan. From the first episode, Elementary captivated me and after the first season i already liked it more than BBC Sherlock. I now watched Elementary two times and i still watch some episodes from time to time because this is my favorite show and it makes me feel good (i usually forget who the killer was so it's not even boring to think about the case). I recommend any Sherlock Holmes fan to watch this show and i thank you for doing this video so more people watch Elementary because it's underrated (in contrast with BBC Sherlock witch is overrated)
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching!
I haven't watched the BC version of Sherlock, but I did love Elementary. Especially for JLM, who I thought was an American actor when I first saw him in Hackers (cult classic). WP is right though.. As good as BC is, he doesn't have the depth and versatility of JLM. JLM may become the future Gary Oldman..
I like them both a lot, but I agree with your points for the most part.
Fair enough!
When I watch a novel adaptation series or movie, I want one of two things: complete faithful to the original from casting to plotline (think David Suchet's Hercules Poirot), or creative retelling of the story while keeping the true essence of the original work (Elementary in this case).
This is just. Yes. You are correct.
Why thank you!
Yes! I loved Elementary. Seeing the gradual growth and emotional complexity of Sherlock was amazing
SPOILER for one episode: I knew elementary was my favorite Sherlock show when a scene of a murder showed Sherlock open a fridge and looking confused, then pays it off by showing that neither of the occupants could've drank milk as one was vegan and the other lactose intolerant leading Sherlock to deduce it had to be something other than milk which lead to the killer being identified. The best part is that the camera didn't focus on the milk at all and while it was front and center so everyone saw it, it didn't draw attention to it in any way
As sm1 who likes both, I suppose it's telling that I've rewatched the full series of Elementary multiple times but have yet to finish the last season of Sherlock (it's still in my queue 😅).
I like a lot of the humor in _Sherlock_ and I thought Cumberbatch and Freeman were magnetic and the show was still pretty fun, but I really felt the connection with _Elementary._ Overall, I thought it was the better adaptation, esp with how the characters were interpreted and how much it still played homage to its origins while providing a fresh and more modern focus.
_Elementary_ was very rich in its side characters and world building and fleshing them out too. Sure, it had its flaws, but the vast majority of it was immaculately done.
Totally agree. Loved Elementary, and I watch very little network television. Elementary's Sherlock wasn't perfect, he was very flawed, but he also knew that much of the time. He knew he was an addict, was terrible at relationships, hated his father. You could do an entire video of his relationship with his father, played by the always exceptionally evil John Noble.
Elrmentary is my second favourite adaptation after the jeremy brett one
I prefer BBC Version of Sherlock. I love the Mycroft in it. I love the relationship between the brothers. I like the relationship between Sherlock and Watson. I Love Mrs. Hudson. I watched the first season and couldn't get into elementary. Something in it really turned me off.
To each their my good sir or dear lady!
@@WoodstockProd Have you seen Agatha Christie's Piriot? That would be a good one to do a duel for. Their are many versions out there. The newest one that came out in 2010, Murder on the Orient Express and it's sequel that just came out, Death on a Nile. The Show that ran for Twenty-four years, thirteen seasons (1989 -2013) . Amazon's 2019 mini Series version of ABC Murders with Rupert Grint and John Malkovich. I had a hard time with that version. There are many more.
@@smartbookworm2007 that’s a good idea!
@@WoodstockProdI look forward to watching it
Elementary also has a great sense of humor (e.g., Sherlock's process where he smells everything, the clown running through the woods at night), excellently written lines (e.g., the exchange with Marcus where he says he was the most pitiable soul he could ever meet at the depths of his addiction, the scene with Watson where he tells her that maintaining his sobriety is like working very hard just to prevent a faucet from dripping), deep insight into humanity (e.g., Sherlock's criticisms of marriage, analysis of Watson's pursuit of traditional partnership), and excellent research into fascinating topics (e.g., quaggas actually did exist, malbolge is actually a programming language). There are so many layers of value add that the writers add to each episode and they actually do the research. Elementary is definitely a high quality, cerebral production. Far better than any detective series out there that generally caters to people's sense of justice.
tbh just watching this bc elementary is my favorite show ever
I'm about to give Elementary a try
Glad to hear it!
9:27 is that a JLC Reverso on M's wrist?
Might be! Good catch!
I felt like Sherlock become more of a drama then a crime drama, while Elementary did keep up with the crime. Though I do wish they had done more with the episode that reference the books instead of just little nods towards them. Like they were actual adaptation of them.
They being Sherlock or they being Elementary?
@@WoodstockProd elementary, but I will always prefer elementary over Sherlock
As someone with only a passing knowledge of Sherlock Holmes, I was pretty indifferent to Sherlock when I watched it, just seemed like an okay crime thriller, but Elementary, despite having a more procedural and on-the-surface traditional appearance, hooked me with the lead performances, and I remember being absolutely floored by the Irene/Moriarty reveal. Honestly, the only negative thing I have to say about Elementary is that Natalie Dormer was not in nearly as many episodes as she deserved to be in.
Oh yeah, they definitely leave you wanting with Irene
For real, how do you cast one of the coolest British actresses in one (Technically two) of the most integral Sherlock roles, and then only have her appear in six episodes? Absolutely criminal. Honestly, if she was a regular for even one season, she probably could have garnered her own spin-off in a time where spin-offs weren't commonplace.
@@ewanholme1687 oh if this show came out today, she’s getting get own show yesterday
And honestly, it's an atrocity that Natalie Dormer hasn't been the lead in her own show as of yet. I mean, shit, cast her as the Doctor after Ncuti for god's sake!
@@ewanholme1687 how she didn’t get booked and busy after being killed off in season six of Game of Thrones is beyond me
Those are all good points. However, a big minus in Elementary's column for me is that how damn mundane it is. Most of these mysteries don't feel like they need Sherlock Holmes to solve them, and while he often notices absurdly obscure details has known ridiculously obscure trivia, his solutions rarely are all that clever.
I forget if this was any better in Sherlock - it's been far longer since I saw that - but at least there was an air of a larger than life character.
Okay. You've talked me into checking out Elementary. I gave up Sherlock in Season Two for reasons you gave.
Give it a watch!
I like both Sherlock and Elementary, but I think the main issue with Sherlock is that it just felt rushed. The writers tried to squeeze in the little character development they could into too little time, or all development was just temporary. I remember during Watson and Mary's wedding, Sherlock seemed to be a decent man genuinely trying to help Watson and his marriage, but right after the wedding, it was back to business as usual and Sherlock being an asshole. Season 4 had some more development, but by then it was kind of too little too late. Development should start right after the very first episode once the characters are properly introduced, not years after two seasons of sameness. I think if Sherlock was spaced out over more seasons or episodes, and more time was given to developing the characters and their relationships, it would have been a much better show.
I also like how Elementary weaved in character development with the murders and cases. One example I remember is when Holmes was assigned by his druggie friend Oscar to find his missing sister. While Sherlock was investigating the case, he had to grapple with visions of his past as a heroin addict, before they ultimately got to him and caused a relapse. On the other hand, the little development in Sherlock is kept separate from the cases and mysteries, which kind of makes it feel bland and insignificant.
Sorry for the huge paragraphs, but I just wanted to share my thoughts. Great video essay, you earned yourself a new subscriber! You should do a review of the Sherlock Holmes movies next. I personally enjoyed them and want to know what you think!
Exactly! Any time there’s any kind of progress with Benedict’s Sherlock, it’s ultimately undone before the episode ends. Jonny Lee’s Sherlock is always evolving, sometimes he changes for the better, sometimes he regresses, but he’s never the same guy from start to finish.
And yeah, I gotta do those RDJ Sherlock movies eventually! Maybe I’ll do it when they eventually drop that third movie!
I quite liked Sherlock till season 3,then season 4 came and my god what a wonderful writing was done,still gives me nightmares.
Still haven’t seen season 4, though I’m tempted to do a follow up video discussing it and Elementary’s last season
Dorner's American accent sounds almost identical to Miller's intentionally bad New York accent lol
I think it’s passable but it’s not going in the hall of fame of Brits who sound more American than actual Americans
I a huge sherlock holmes fan...elementry was just AWSOME....the relatin ship between watson and holmes is just SSSOOOO REAL...example...watson didnt start off as a detective, she slowly falls into it...its cool how they show her over time make the switch to detective..and to see sherlock teach someone his craft was cool too....not to mentin the character himself serms so organic ALSO..he dosnt out people down ALL THE TIME like the other version..(still like the other version too)...in short..same character TOTALLY different ways of showing use sherlock holmes...love em both😏
Sherlock has its charms, but I’ll gladly take Elementary every time
Funny..was whatching elementey not to long ago....(hulu i think?)...cany remember the episode..but near the end....(watson had to tell the captin about sherlick drug use past)...when sherlock came he before the captine and told him about it..he looked so scared and most of all embarest...(not gonna lie..my eyes kinda welled up🥺...)...like talking to your dad or who ever you look up to and tell him something that may disapoint them...ssoooo gut wrenching and hard to do....great sene
Correct me if im wrong but i belive BBC sherlock does not see John as a dog or labrat a few example for my point series 1 saves John and his date in ep 2 putting himself at risk now that might now sound like much at first but sherlock is a sociopath and if he really did see John as a labrat or dog he would most likely just left or something idk but eny way series 1 again when Moriarty has straped bombes to Johns chest and has a sniper on the bomb so he could basicly have died at eny moment and i dont belive he is as cold as you say tbh he just kinda does not seem to understand social interaction at all witch could have to do with his sociopathy again and or his autism and continueing on my first point sherlock saves John several other times in the series and sherlock does grow a lot as a character but i feel this comment might already be a bit to long now so im just gonna and the comment here….
Your line of "because...Stephen Moffatt." is such a true line. Moffatt as a showrunner is a cancer, he single handedly drove Doctor Who down the tracks to bring us to the crap we are at now.
I actually really liked Moffatt’s run on Doctor Who, I just don’t think you can argue that there’s a pretty consistent through line in his work. He pretty consistently has a certain horniness to his work that’s hard to not notice. I enjoy his work on Doctor Who mostly because that’s a show meant for families so he usually has to reign that in a bit more
@@WoodstockProd My issue with his Doctor Who run is he focuses on over complicating all of his stories but he never finishes them very satisfyingly
@@bZman completely fair honestly, that is a frequent issue. I mostly enjoy his run just because I like Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi as 11 and 12
@@WoodstockProd Oh I love them both as The Doctor, it was just a shame the writing was so poor compared to their wonderful performances.
@@bZman I think the popular opinion is that Steven writes great episodes but runs terrible shows, I don’t necessarily agree but I completely understand
I THOUGHT I liked Sherlock so much that I didn't even try elementary. What a mistake. Elementary is the FAR superior show. I don't really understand where the motivation to make Sherlock such a jerk of a person comes from. I've read all the stories and novels a few times and while Doyle's Holmes has his character flaws, he is almost always kind to the people he interacts with, he'll reassure an old lady or befriend a child. It's just bizarre to me
Hi i love both shows. I loved Jeremy Bret's show so much back in the day & I'm old enough to have enjoyed Basil Rathbone's portrayal . I just freaking love Sherlock oh & young Sherlock too. I haven't seen Mr.Holmes yet but it's Ian ..its got you be good. Enjoyed the irregulars and Enola Holmes. Everything you said was spot on between the 2 shows but i just cant get enough Sherlock so it would have to be terrible for me to not watch. I guess i don't want to Pit any depiction against each.. ever ... But i totally can appreciate your thoughts.i look forward to your other reviews✌
I gave it a like after the first minutes and went on to continue watching ELEMENTARY
Okay but please finish the video later!
@@WoodstockProd DEAL!
@@tonyt.r.5313 thank you!
I think the problem people initially had with Elementary when it first came out was that it was less accurate to the characters of the book. But that makes for more interesting characters for the show. There was also probably a bias since Sherlock came out first and everyone has a crush on Benedict Cumberbatch whether they admit it or not.
I also find it funny how you mentioned Sherlock makes a bunch of queer jokes about John and Holmes getting together, whereas there's not a single joke like that in elementary. But in the end Joan and Holmes do end up together, but more for convenience.
Can you do more let’s duel videos?
I’ve got three others
@@WoodstockProd yes, can you make more? New ones?
@@tyleryates8508 more than likely, not sure what the subject will be
Finally someone said it
Loved them both. IMO Elementary is the best iteration of SH.
Why the shots of anderson cooper? Why him?
I just think that shot of him rolling his eyes is funny 🤷♂️
7:40 How do you know it was her photos on that phone?
It was never said explicitly, but the implication when you see a brown haired Royal repeatedly called princess is that the woman is Kate Middleton
@@WoodstockProd Thank you for explaining! I was wondering it since I watched that episode 1,5 year ago.
@@Otto500206 no problem!
LaStrad shows up in ELEMENTARY👍👍👍
Fair enough but 1) I was only using Elementary’s first season for the comparison and 2) While they are based on the same character, I don’t think Elementary’s Lestrade is equivalent to Sherlock’s based on their role in the show
Elementary's Sherlock and Watson👍🏻
Recently started watching Elementary, hands down better than Sherlock in most aspects. I can't praise JLM enough; the frantic genius energy in his acting is lovely, Watson is so cool while the supporting characters are good as well.
Agreed on all accounts
I watched both, liked them both...While Sherlock was more into Technologically superior, Elementary was superior into Acting & humor & everything....Without doubt Elementary was THE BEST.
😂😂😂😂
I'm only one series into Elementary and do think overhaul its the better show so far. I'll have to rewatch Sherlock once I finish this to judge fully. A few ticks in the BBC shows box thou, I preferred his apartment in sherlock! I don't know why but it just stood out to me the moment I started the first episode. It seems too non-descript and adds nothing. Whereas in Sherlock it's at the center of the show. I think the reason is related to my second tick to Sherlock, which is the general atmosphere (look and feel) to Sherlock was better. It look and feels like a quirky unique show where as Elementary feels like your watching a standard CSI type show.
I also loved the blog in Sherlock, which I believe was a modern take on something from the books (not sure thou haven't read them).
And lastly his landlady, I loved the relationship between her and Sherlock. If I remember right she is the only person he seems to care about in Sherlock, where as in Elementary he is overall a better human so has more meaningful relationships with a few people, which might end up being better in the end (just about to start season 2) we'll have to see.
I liked this clip but my conclusion is, I think it's probably best to not actually compare them! lol. I know it's obvious and interesting to compare them because they are both based on the same characters and books. But as a piece of art they are so different its like saying what films better, Die Hard or Schindler's List? Put these in order best to worst - The Rolling Stones, the Godfather Part 2, and the Mona Lisa lol Ok maybe I took it too far with that one but you get my point.
Oh I forgot to mention, I absolutely hated Moriarty in Sherlock, almost ruined the whole show for me, if he was in it more I wouldn't have watched it. I don't understand why they made him like that, was just dreadful and completely out of place. It reminded me of the brother and sister from the original Resident evil games. The ones that owned the company Umbrella lmao. In fact it reminded me of the voice acting in allot of those old games, like time cop as well. "I'M EVIL AND I'M HERE FOR YOUR DEMISE!!! MWWAHA HA HA HA!!
In conclusion I like both shows for completely different reasons! lol Good video thou:)
@Woodstockprop hey there is a character you don’t mention that I am curious about. Which series do you think had the best Mycroft Holmes? Both VERY different characters. I am more inclined towards Sherlock but which did you think?
I didn’t mention Mycroft because Elementary’s Mycroft doesn’t show up until season 2 and I haven’t watched season 2 in a long while so I couldn’t say who’s best
What a totally unbiased comparison of two different interpretations of two main characters who are represented incorrectly in both productions. But hey, as if we did not guess that a huge episodic production from the U.S. would win out. Sherlock Holmes was, is & always should be the subject of the observations of Dr. Watson, no more, no less, so both productions should concentrate on that & not the intelligence/arrogance of Sherlock more on the diary if Watson.
To finish, why if Moriarty was in need of a challenge why did he not turn his focus into Mycroft as, as we know, he was the smarter Holmes & would have been more if a challenge for Moriarty?
I’m not saying Elementary didn’t do well with the premise but I gave up after the first episode because I couldn’t understand a word Miller was saying. I don’t know why they had him talking into his beard but it made the show unwatchable for me.
Not sure what you’re talking about, I’ve never had an issue with understanding him
I dont know why people bash Elementary, I honestly like it the most out of all the modernized adaptations. The Moriarty twist was actually quite clever, IMO. I like SOME of Sherlock BBC but the writing and plot logic just doesn't make much sense. And honestly, Milller Sherlock feels very based and relatable.
Agreed!
Hmm
Your next video could be about what Sherlock and company is closest to the OG Works from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle!!!
That is a great idea but I do not know enough about the Conan Doyle books to comment on it 😅
I have thought about making a sequel video though
@@WoodstockProdYou don't need to know much about it!!
If you saw the then Granada, now ITV Sherlock Holmes from the late 80's, early 90's, then you know everything you need to know about what Sir Arthur Conan Doyle envisioned for his characters!!!
@@tiagopatricio3805 I’ve never heard of this! I’ll have to go looking!
@@WoodstockProdYou will be amazed by it's quality, even in today standards plus one of Conan Doyle's descendants contributed to the Granada Show...
And when you have enough info, don't forget to include in the comparisson the Japanese Sherlock Holmes show...
Couldn’t agree more. Benedict cumberbatch is a good actor but Jonny lee Miller is a superior one. BBC Sherlock is a big steaming dog turd of a show! Completely unwatchable even though una Stubbs put in a good performance. Elementary for me 100%, 1st season especially had me gripped till the very end
Natalie dormer (irene) IS moriarty also you keep showing moriarty from robert downey jr movie
Dude, just watch the video, there’s a reason I didn’t mention Natalie was Moriarty
here from twitter!
Thank you good sir!
I may be a minority, but I prefer Hercules Pirot over Sherlock and Elementary.
Maybe I’ll talk about that next
Have you seen the ABC Murders with Rupert Grint and John Malkovich?
@@smartbookworm2007 A few episodes, but not too many episodes.
@@raw6668 I found it a lot creepier than any other Piriot I have ever seen. I had a hard time with it. I love the original Series better.
@@smartbookworm2007 Agree
I watched a few episodes of Elementary but couldn't get into it. To me it just felt like any other run of the mill detective programme. Now, I'll freely admit this might not be fair because I only saw a few episode of the first season, but it did nothing to hold my interest.
It is just another detective show, if that’s not your thing, you’re not going to like it. But if it is your thing, you’ll love it
The first few episodes of Elementary do feel very cookie-cutter detective show. It takes awhile for the characters to really develop into themselves. It always is a detective programme but one with really great characters that change and grow.
@@LBullockPW I mean no show is going to show a ton of growth immediately in the first two or three episodes, you gotta give it some time
@@LBullockPW that said, I’m really glad you gave it another chance
Personally liked both shows.
Good for you! Genuinely!
LOVED "ELEMENTARY" FAR MORE THAN "SHERLOCK"❤❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍❤❤❤
Tbh I think you were even a bit generous awarding Sherlock the Irene Adler point, like she's basically Moriarty you can't really separate the two, if you think Elementary's Moriarty is great then Irene Adler also is. Also Irene's characterization in Sherlock isn't very good in spite of the first impression she makes (which honestly is still very sexually objectifying), it's basically another "lesbian back on the straight and narrow" sorta deal and once it's done she's basically just a woman in love with the protagonist.
That’s a fair point, while I agree Lara’s Irene is filled to the brim with some pretty horrific tropes I just think she’s more interesting than the Irene persona that Natalie’s Moriarty created. I can see why Lara leaves a lasting impression on Benedict’s Sherlock, but I’m not really sure why Jonny Lee’s fell head over heels for Natalie. Granted 90% of that is just how much fun Lara’s performance is
Professor X and Magneto don't hate each other...
Don’t take that line too literally, the point isn’t that they literally hate each other, the point is that they’re ideologically opposed rivals who will do anything to stop each other even if they do have a deep respect for each other
Elementary😍
Hard disagree about Irene. If they'd stayed consistent with how badass she was in Sherlock, then maybe, but the face that she ended up becoming the damsel in distress to Sherlock just ruined it imo.
I definitely see your point but my main thing with Laura’s Irene vs Natalie’s is 1) she was actually Irene, and 2) I think Laura just had more material, even if she was a damsel at the end she still had buckets of personality where as the Irene persona put on by Natalie’s Moriarty is just kind of bland. I haven’t watched either show since I posted this video but I still have strong memories of Laura but almost no memory of Natalie as Irene