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Just rewatched dbz from start to freeza arc. Goku had a ton more style and flair in z with the tricks he uses to get shots in on opponents like standing on nappa to punching him man that was sweet.
Bro when he disrespected Nappa constantly was so fuking cool. The dude was in absolute control and was willing to humilliate his cocky opponent. And DB Goku was also a savage beast, he took shit from NO ONE.
Wdym dbz was trash except the freeza arc but we aint talking about that dbs is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than dbz and db and any other dragonball series
yeah even when he had no plan he would think of something on the fly real goku would see meditation vegeta and say "you're finally putting your mind in harmony with your body" not as why is vegeta snoozing
he does, when he went to namek he knew there were all sorts of tough guys so he trained under 100x gravity, when androids came he underwent intense and tough training with piccolo and gohan, when cell came he decided to use the hyperbolic time chamber to train since it was their best shot, when majin buu appeared he taught the kids to fuse so they'd have a chance with buu
For me it’s Dbs DB Dbs Dbgt Although there are some parts in GT I like better than super and there are some parts I like super better than gf. Like goku being just brain dead a lot of the times in super is one thing I hate about super
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 In my head cannon, GT is cannon. Super isn’t but only some parts like Beerus but just went back to sleep after battle of gods and we keep the direct quote from Goku in that film: “I hate this! This is a power I couldn’t achieve on my own! I’ll use this form so I can have the chance to fight you lord beerus.” Keeping that idea would mean he would straight up never turn into it again after that film and also he don’t absorb it during the fight like the manga. Ssj4 will still be his ultimate form at the end.
I've always loved how Goku was potrayed in the movies and in GT. His growth was shown clearly, he thought ouside the box with techniques and outsmarting his enemies, he was a father first, and yet, he still was a tad naiive and sweet outside battle. He took each fight seriously and even knows when someone is beyond help [moreso in the movies]. Super has it's moments too, but they're few and far in between. I wish we could see that side of Goku again: a fighter with a heart of gold.
Yea and in GT even when he was trapped in Hell facing Frieza & Cell, he could’ve easily gone super saiyan 4 and displayed the unfathomable gap between his power and their own, but he chose to remain in his reverted child base form because it was already more than sufficient for the likes of them but it was also perceived on their end as Goku’s size being the deciding factor in the fight. And then he when they begin fighting Goku proves that it couldn’t be further from the truth and instead of boasting his greater power to them he actually stops to remark valid criticism like to Cell that he a lesson he’d learned throughout his life as a warrior is that if you spend as much time training as someone like Cell does judging other’s abilities than your fighting truly suffers as a result. He also states to Frieza, half jokingly I’m sure but also that he does have the potential to be better as a fighter and that mindlessly launching attacks developed by other warriors at him like with Krillin’s patterned destructo disk is just beneath him despite his detestable nature as a person but is just a disappointing display from someone of his level of battle knowledge/ability to perform such amateur attacks.
This video almost made me cry. This is Goku, who he should always be no matter what the Dragon ball story is. I grew up with this Goku, and everything Scholar said in this video is on point. Dragon Ball Super would be so different if we still had the original Goku. I really dislike what the writers did to his character. The GT ending said Until We Meet Again, I'm still waiting to see OG Goku again. So, I thank you Saiyan Scholar for these types of videos. All true Dragon Ball Fans needed this.
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 Smh, I guess you only watched the American dub where they completely changed his entire personality to appeal to America audiences DBS Goku is written exactly like Japanese Z Goku, watch the original sub kid
A really cool but understated part of Goku’s growth is how he changed after training under Kami, and just growing and learning as a fighter. A lot of people point out how Goku use to be way more savage prone to killing his enemies as a kid. He was a wild child who acted on his impulses. However you see a change in Goku’s temperament after he came back from his training with Kami. He’s more merciful and calm during situations compared to when he was a kid who would rush out against anyone who did him wrong. Some good examples of this are when Goku didn’t listen to Roshi and chased after Tambourine after he killed Krillin, knowing nothing about his enemy’s strengths and techniques he was just consumed by rage. As an adult with more experience and maturity, Goku restrained his son after Cell seemingly killed Piccolo and never made any rash actions in front of Cell even when he thought Piccolo was dead. Even the way Goku didn’t fully succumb to the Super Saiyan influence against Frieza’s shows his growth in self control. In the anime when Goku first became a Super Saiyan, Roshi talks about how Goku is undergoing a change and it will be up to him if he remains who he is, and in the end Goku never lets anger consume him and instead wants his fight with Frieza to be another proving ground for him instead of a death match. He’s not a savage Saiyan, he’s a martial artist. He even spares Frieza numerous times to drive the point home that this is just a fight not an execution. And what does he do next saga? He makes the Super Saiyan form his own, mastering it to be a form not based on rage and aggression but efficiency and control. Martial arts is all about self control and it’s that aspect of Goku and seeing him get better at that as he ages that makes him such an inspirational character.
IIRC, I believe it was also due to Android 8 back in Muscle Tower when he was taught to spare them, even if they deserved it. Goku was about to kill General White if it wasn't for No. 8 holding back his fist. This is why he spared the lives of his enemies like Piccolo or Vegeta who'd later become allies under different circumstances. He does grow as the adventure goes on.
Hmm, it just got me: Tien and Piccolo went very similar path. They both recognized Goku as equal opponent, and both got change in heart. Although with Piccolo it happen also during training with Gohan, who recognized Piccolo as close person.
In the cell saga, when everyone got thrashed by the androids, after Goku woke up from his heart disease, it was really assuring that he was all calm when he instant transmitted to the plane and talked to the other fighters, and had plans on what to do, ie. Get all 4 saiyans to train in the time chamber. You knew he was always one step ahead and would save the day
Z is PEAK. Period. Not a single lie was detected as far as what they did to Goku in Super. The regression is deplorable! As far as Abridged, it can't truly be appreciated nor will one get the subtle and not so subtle jokes unless you've watched the official release prior.
I understand what you mean when I was a kid watching dragon Ball z man it was fun now I'm 18 years old ohmygod Vegeta's my favorite character and that is why I'm still here to this day
Thank you for being the voice of Z fans, you are Goku with the spirit bomb and we are raising our arms to you to send our energy, our contribution! Do it!
Toriyama is wrong about his own character. He might of intended for him to be portrayed a certain way but the fact is he was a hero in original z and helped push dbz to global recognition
Z Goku was awesome, he's like a wise sage during the namek and cell sagas, even the Buu saga made Goku like a divine spirit, guiding the path of the living (for most of the saga at least). Now in Super he's mostly a buffon, he does have it's moments of his old self, but he's mostly a fool, it's really depressing.
His Japanese voice gives me a heachache, but the lines are better in the original. If you understand, consider the German dub. Gokus original voice actor in Z is an absolute legend in Germany.
@ Saiyan Scholar You said canon doesn't matter. You just became the G.O.A.T. my guy. Canon is easily topped by all the other works. People are delusional.😁💪💯
Ppl saying goku hero speech didn't fit his character is totally bs goku literally speard all the ginyu force members he didn't want to kill them even tho he has the power to one shot them goku is not a killer he could've killed frieza also but spear him
Actually, it was American dub BS. Original dialogue between Goku and Freeza was very different. In Japanese version Goku still a Goku even in SSJ form.
truth to be told, Toriyama is a bad writter who got lucky, the Dragonball and Dragonball Z we all fell in love with was Toriyama's multiple Editors fixing Toriyama's short commings and keeping the story and the characters on the right track The more freedom you give Toriyama the worse his writting, simple as that
Honestly Z Goku is definitely Peak Goku! He's the Goku I respect A LOT as he was not an Awesome Hero to me but also one of my fictional role models like Naruto,Spider-Man,and a few others❤❤ He also inspired me to get into Better shape just like Tien 🥰🔥🔥
Yknow, none of this would’ve been a problem if we had let Akira Toriyama give Gohan the spot light back in the day. We would have been able to see natural progression through him to keep the story going, and enjoy Goku as he became a wiser mentor for developing characters.
I sometimes feel like DBSuper Goku was written to be more like T4S Goku. I like T4S Goku, but only within the context of T4S. It doesn't work in canon Dragon Ball.
That's a good point, Super Goku does seem like an immature child who can't function as an adult and just wants to fight strong people and doesn't care about the concequences for the people around him. I mean he put the entire multiverse at risk so he could have a tournament!
@@shadowspringtrap3122 Goku had no say in that, other than he gave Xeno (or more likely the grand priest) the idea. Goku had no regard for the possible concequences when he pushed Xeno for the tournament. He acted selfishly and foolishly. It just happened to all turn out right for him, which more down to poor writing than anything else.
The reason why DBZ was so beloved wasn't just because of Akira Toriyama, it was a team effort and his former editors Kazuhiko Torishima, Yū Kondō and the head of the anime production Takao Koyama contributed a lot to the success of the franchise, specially Koyama, he was a good leader and the glue that kept the things running, he also contributed alot into developing who Goku is as a character, Toriyama is a genius but his ideas are to crazy for his own good and he also changes his mind a lot, he works best with a team to giving him advice and keep things consistent, like the fact that he clearly created Goku to be a hero, and it's even stated in the manga, but now he changed his mind and wants Goku to be more of an anti-hero and that's one of the reasons why DBS wasn't as successful as DB and DBZ, the development team lacked a good leadership, they just followed Toriyama's vague instructions without any direction, one of the biggest reasons why DBGT failed wasn't because they turned Goku into a kid but because they made him dumb, and this time they committed the same mistake except worse because Goku is an adult this time, they didn't learned anything from their past mistakes, they needed a good leader like Koyama to make sure the team was on board of they same boat and to keep things consistent.
That's what I think too. Most of the time in Z portion, it was the editor that helped Toriyama wrote coherent and meaningful story and well-written likable characters. Buu Saga is literally a result of Toriyama written a DBZ story on his own and has a lot of flaws. DBGT failed mainly because of franchise fatigue, not because of flawed story and characters, because despite the least popular series, GT is well-liked in Japan.
@@MinhLe19303 Indeed, Toriyama works best with an editor Buu saga was not bad but had alot going on without any explanation, and many flaws. GT was indeed more popular in Japan than in the west but they don't care too much about canon, fatigue was one of the main factors but Goku's characters regression didn't help any better, and the quality of the series wasn't as good as it used to be, fatigue only happens when sometimes starts to lose quality, look at One Piece, it's over 1000 episodes and there aren't any signs of fatigue.
@@DarkShadow-pe6ud Hmm, you're not wrong. I'm not sure if Goku's characterization was a problem. Japanese fans don't seem to care about Goku's idiotic nature, and while I do think they upped his childishness and goofyness in GT, at the same time, they also increase his seriousness and heroism like how they did in old movies and fillers, so I wouldn't call it a straight resgression.
I believe one of the reasons Super Goku does not carry the same weight on screen is because of the uncertainty he has when on screen. Besides the ToP, Super is just a losing streak for him. He loses to Beerus, loses to Sorbet (wins only because of Whis' magic), loses to Hit, loses to Goku Black and Zamasu, twice, and also loses to Fused Zamasu. Why would he be 'Him' if he barely ever wins?
In contrast, in Z, Goku loses to Raditz but wins against Nappa and Vegeta. Loses to Ginyu but wins against Frieza. For every one fight he loses, he wins a much more important one. His losses are used to set up the strength of the enemy and to show his progression, how he is later able to overcome even stronger foes. The longest losing streak for Goku in Z is in the Cell Saga where he loses to 19 and Cell. This is because the story was supposed to move onto Gohan now.
Super is so poorly written you would think goku isn’t even needed for the story. At the end of the day goku is the main character and it’s bullshit how they have treated him in super
@@esmineldraaybara6975well, maybe. But Z Goku would do all that different... He always looking for solution against stronger enemy. What S Goku does after losing to Black first time? He simply rushes back into the future to fight him again, Brilliant idea, just brilliant.
I love how people use nostalgia when we look upon Goku in Z very positively while Super we look at him negatively. As I re-read/rewatch the series and sat down to really get a grasp of the situations, conversations and actions from an objective view, i learned a few things. Goku still has his flaws, moments of selfishness......but be it whatever dub you watched, Goku STILL cared for people, WOULD choose the more logical routes than just to get a fight in, learns from his mistakes, PLANS ahead, very insightful, not cocky about his own power and gains a level of maturity I dont see in Super. For those who are quick to use nostalgia as a means to bash Z Goku, Im telling you to turn off your recency bias and look at Super Goku for what he is in every situation INCLUDING fighting. Because he does not stack up the way Z Goku or even GT Goku does. Mind you, it goes to show that despite how much people like myself did not like GT Growing up, Gokus character personality and execution was NOT a problem
To make it worse, he loses a LOT of his fighting genius, ESPECIALLY in the manga. I emphasize manga, because he literally has the same stamina issues in every form he gains and has yet to rectify that issue, whereas he more or less did rectify that in the anime to a degree where he can use Kaioken freely by the time of the ToP.
Z Goku is the REAL Goku. Writing, Portrayal, personality is exactly what Goku is. He will always be the best variation and nothing will change that, not GT Goku
@@SaiyanScholarthank you for this video Goku is a Martial Arts Master who has some comedic moments espically during his beginning bout with FRIEZA but he quickly got serious when FRIEZA reveals he not even at 50% power yet and he had to pull out all the stops then eventually achieving Super Saiyan the Legendary Transformation of his True Heritage
you're the type of fan who loves or can just enjoy all aspects of a franchise. I am the same and we need more people like you who can take all this stuff in and enjoy it for what it is without being nit too picky
I have immense respect for you after I went through the entire video. A lot of people fail to realize how Goku is supposed to be. Goku from DBZ felt more authentic and it sticks throughout the whole series.
I’ve been watching dbz and I just got to the part where goku sacrificed himself against cell and man I miss the old goku. He was more mature at the beginning of z than he is now in super.
I always love seeing him training then display how wise he is while fighting and even afterwards. The times where he messes up on small things reminds me of my clumsiness. It all makes me wanna train and I've been into martial arts since I was a kid cuz of him
Well something to think about, it took Goku 18 years of insane training, not only on earth but with a kai after death, to hit 9000 power level at base form. Now it’s millions in any instant. There’s no struggle any more.
Z Goku seems more grown up, more mature and more intelligent. Super Goku has regressed in both maturity and intellect, Super Goku is an overgrown child who just wants to fight anyone strong and damn the concequences for anyone around him.
One of the reason why I love kid goku is because he was fvcking alone with no family and goku never complain about it he didn't let anything brother him and you see when he has a family he change and love his family
nah Goku stayed dead after the Cell Saga even though he could've gotten wished back and didnt talk to his family or newborn son for 7 years lmao he's horrible
@@KnucklesEmerald-wj9voit's not characters fault that Author changed plans. Instead of passing the towel to new generation Goku and Vegeta just returned for disgraceful money grab.
5:55 Nope, I wouldn't call him like that in DBS manga Goku. He maybe wiser on the surface, but his arrogant, insenstivity, naivity and the overall unseriousness are worse compare to the anime. Even if there're glimpse of mature decisions here and there, they happened far and few between that just jarring compared to how he act usually.
Toriyama’s Goku is one of the most influential characters in my life without a doubt. The way he’s portrayed in DB/Z/Movies is just so inspirational, stylish, and interesting. I’ll forever regard him highly as a character because of this.
Its because super serverly regressed Goku's character. Thats why. People who say "Goku had no character progression" is following themselves. You can see the maturity of Goku from OG dragonball to GT. As with Super it just goes backwards getting basically kid Goku in Z Goku's body. Yes Goku was always a goof ball and likes kid around but he knew when to kid around he knew when to get serious as time progressed but not in Super.
Saiyan Scholar, Since This Was Another Analysis Topic On Our Favorite Saiyan Hero Son Goku / Kakarot, He Still Be My Favorite Outta Each Z Warrior Characters &, He Is Probably Not A, Better Father Like, Vegeta But, Goku Sacrifice Himself For, Gohan's Future He Did Care Always Deep Down
Honestly! Goku in DBS is like a kid or an amateur! I would have to say that Goku in DB GT was better as we can clearly see him, mature even as a kid. This is visible all the time.
The original Dragon Ball series sees Goku start out an innocent and ignorant little kid, and throughout all his adventures he learns so much, even before the start of Z. In Z, as you said, he becomes a leader, an inspirational figurehead. But in Super he is just stupid. DBZ was made as a direct continuation to DB, and Toryiama never took a break in between these two arcs, and neither did the TV shows - DB ended in 1989 and DBZ started in the same year. However, Super came out 19 years after the end of DBZ, so it was inevitably going to be different. Too bad that those differences were for the worst.
7:30 yep that’s something they do with Lina a lot on Slayers. She’s thinking or talking to herself about her enemy. Which attacks she could try. What their enemy is plotting. What she can do about it or realising there’s nothing she can do. Sometimes even just running, it’s just impossible so they get a humorous “RUN FOR IT” moment. The 90s, Koyama in charge of Series Structure like being a screenwriter for DBZ. Seems to have some connection here.
Z is where it all “started” so to speak. It’s where Super Saiyan started. It’s where the quest for furthering one self really started to show power ups. Goku on Namek, after gravity training on the spaceship is just insane. I was blown away with his Ginyu Force battles and then later we find out he wasn’t even super saiyan yet!?!?! Honestly, I love Super but Z is timeless.
People "proving" DBZ Goku's "stupidity" in a nutshell: They can't tell the difference between naivety and stupidity, and they like to scroll past all of the reasons for Goku's questionable choices
I know this video isn't about Super, but I'd like to add one scene from Super to showcase Goku as a good father. During Gohan's little arc, when he's trying to find motivation again and has taken the mantel of the Great Sayiaman back up, Goku offers to train with Gohan. Gohan declines as Gohan, but says that Sayiaman would take up the challenge. Goku actually plays along and gets into character for Gohan. Anything to motivate his son and spend some time with him. Of course there was a fight involved, but it was simply because it was Gohan he was up against. You can tell at the end just how much both of them enjoyed the fight, despite Chi Chi yelling at them. That was a great father-son moment.
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@IamJay02 I mean, it's a shit game and everyone knows that so he along with other people probably get paid a lot to do sponsors.
Sorry that I am late I only able to comment on like Saturdays so Yeah
No
The Master Roshi speech ur talking about was in the anime
Forgive me for being harsh to you that one time
I felt like I was winning with him” perfect quote.
Indeed it's so fitting
I agree. There's just something about DB that is able to get me emotional and i love it.
Vegeta>>>>
Just rewatched dbz from start to freeza arc. Goku had a ton more style and flair in z with the tricks he uses to get shots in on opponents like standing on nappa to punching him man that was sweet.
Bro when he disrespected Nappa constantly was so fuking cool.
The dude was in absolute control and was willing to humilliate his cocky opponent.
And DB Goku was also a savage beast, he took shit from NO ONE.
@@streptococo4735fr he just violates most people in og db lmao
Wdym dbz was trash except the freeza arc but we aint talking about that dbs is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than dbz and db and any other dragonball series
@@ionelpetrea7594 nah nice bait though
@@ionelpetrea7594
bait used to be believable
Z goku always felt like he knows what to do next he always has the ideas and the plot always evolves around him and his choices
yeah
even when he had no plan he would think of something on the fly
real goku would see meditation vegeta and say "you're finally putting your mind in harmony with your body" not as why is vegeta snoozing
he does, when he went to namek he knew there were all sorts of tough guys so he trained under 100x gravity, when androids came he underwent intense and tough training with piccolo and gohan, when cell came he decided to use the hyperbolic time chamber to train since it was their best shot, when majin buu appeared he taught the kids to fuse so they'd have a chance with buu
@@ryszakowyomg deadass I love this comment I agree
@@jonathanluzgonzalez7510 thanks
@@weirdface1846 fax bro like I said z goku always felt like he knows what he's doing
50% of people who have watched all 4 series will tell you Z is peak.
1 z
2 db
3 dbgt
4 dbs
I do love the og db but I do like z better
For me it’s
Dbs
DB
Dbs
Dbgt
Although there are some parts in GT I like better than super and there are some parts I like super better than gf. Like goku being just brain dead a lot of the times in super is one thing I hate about super
@@edwardjones1482 then why is it number 1?
@@edwardjones1482 I cant think of a single reason my dude. Z is just superior to super in every last way.
Z Goku is very diverse and very well-written. I’m ashamed he’s not the same in Super!
who ever says goku was always stupid never watched z
Super Goku is almost a different character,Super is canon but it feels even more non canon than GT in terms of characterization and fladerization.
@@justinarzola4584agreed. GT Goku is tons better than SUPER Goku
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 In my head cannon, GT is cannon. Super isn’t but only some parts like Beerus but just went back to sleep after battle of gods and we keep the direct quote from Goku in that film: “I hate this! This is a power I couldn’t achieve on my own! I’ll use this form so I can have the chance to fight you lord beerus.”
Keeping that idea would mean he would straight up never turn into it again after that film and also he don’t absorb it during the fight like the manga. Ssj4 will still be his ultimate form at the end.
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 nope
I've always loved how Goku was potrayed in the movies and in GT. His growth was shown clearly, he thought ouside the box with techniques and outsmarting his enemies, he was a father first, and yet, he still was a tad naiive and sweet outside battle. He took each fight seriously and even knows when someone is beyond help [moreso in the movies]. Super has it's moments too, but they're few and far in between. I wish we could see that side of Goku again: a fighter with a heart of gold.
Yea and in GT even when he was trapped in Hell facing Frieza & Cell, he could’ve easily gone super saiyan 4 and displayed the unfathomable gap between his power and their own, but he chose to remain in his reverted child base form because it was already more than sufficient for the likes of them but it was also perceived on their end as Goku’s size being the deciding factor in the fight. And then he when they begin fighting Goku proves that it couldn’t be further from the truth and instead of boasting his greater power to them he actually stops to remark valid criticism like to Cell that he a lesson he’d learned throughout his life as a warrior is that if you spend as much time training as someone like Cell does judging other’s abilities than your fighting truly suffers as a result. He also states to Frieza, half jokingly I’m sure but also that he does have the potential to be better as a fighter and that mindlessly launching attacks developed by other warriors at him like with Krillin’s patterned destructo disk is just beneath him despite his detestable nature as a person but is just a disappointing display from someone of his level of battle knowledge/ability to perform such amateur attacks.
Yep Z Goku is defiantly HIM material!
The fact that z and gt goku feels more mature than super goku
As messy GT was, they at least seemed to understand Goku's character and how he was a veteran.
This video almost made me cry. This is Goku, who he should always be no matter what the Dragon ball story is. I grew up with this Goku, and everything Scholar said in this video is on point. Dragon Ball Super would be so different if we still had the original Goku. I really dislike what the writers did to his character. The GT ending said Until We Meet Again, I'm still waiting to see OG Goku again. So, I thank you Saiyan Scholar for these types of videos. All true Dragon Ball Fans needed this.
The manga is slowly bringing back that Goku . And if not just consider this Goku as an alternate version 👍🏽
@@DBZ_AnimeWORLD Agreed
Goku always felt like a hero in my opinion
in super He is a clown
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 fax
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 Smh, I guess you only watched the American dub where they completely changed his entire personality to appeal to America audiences DBS Goku is written exactly like Japanese Z Goku, watch the original sub kid
Yeah, no. Watched the original and can confirm that dbz goku is nothing like dbs goku.
@@lordnikitaxd you watched the Dub 🤡
A really cool but understated part of Goku’s growth is how he changed after training under Kami, and just growing and learning as a fighter.
A lot of people point out how Goku use to be way more savage prone to killing his enemies as a kid. He was a wild child who acted on his impulses.
However you see a change in Goku’s temperament after he came back from his training with Kami. He’s more merciful and calm during situations compared to when he was a kid who would rush out against anyone who did him wrong.
Some good examples of this are when Goku didn’t listen to Roshi and chased after Tambourine after he killed Krillin, knowing nothing about his enemy’s strengths and techniques he was just consumed by rage.
As an adult with more experience and maturity, Goku restrained his son after Cell seemingly killed Piccolo and never made any rash actions in front of Cell even when he thought Piccolo was dead.
Even the way Goku didn’t fully succumb to the Super Saiyan influence against Frieza’s shows his growth in self control.
In the anime when Goku first became a Super Saiyan, Roshi talks about how Goku is undergoing a change and it will be up to him if he remains who he is, and in the end Goku never lets anger consume him and instead wants his fight with Frieza to be another proving ground for him instead of a death match. He’s not a savage Saiyan, he’s a martial artist. He even spares Frieza numerous times to drive the point home that this is just a fight not an execution.
And what does he do next saga? He makes the Super Saiyan form his own, mastering it to be a form not based on rage and aggression but efficiency and control. Martial arts is all about self control and it’s that aspect of Goku and seeing him get better at that as he ages that makes him such an inspirational character.
IIRC, I believe it was also due to Android 8 back in Muscle Tower when he was taught to spare them, even if they deserved it. Goku was about to kill General White if it wasn't for No. 8 holding back his fist. This is why he spared the lives of his enemies like Piccolo or Vegeta who'd later become allies under different circumstances. He does grow as the adventure goes on.
I'm interested in your take on GT Goku.
Hmm, it just got me: Tien and Piccolo went very similar path.
They both recognized Goku as equal opponent, and both got change in heart. Although with Piccolo it happen also during training with Gohan, who recognized Piccolo as close person.
In the cell saga, when everyone got thrashed by the androids, after Goku woke up from his heart disease, it was really assuring that he was all calm when he instant transmitted to the plane and talked to the other fighters, and had plans on what to do, ie. Get all 4 saiyans to train in the time chamber. You knew he was always one step ahead and would save the day
I m taking Gohan. Bye!
Goku is such a great protagonist in the original manga
Z is PEAK. Period. Not a single lie was detected as far as what they did to Goku in Super. The regression is deplorable! As far as Abridged, it can't truly be appreciated nor will one get the subtle and not so subtle jokes unless you've watched the official release prior.
I couldn't agree more
I understand what you mean when I was a kid watching dragon Ball z man it was fun now I'm 18 years old ohmygod Vegeta's my favorite character and that is why I'm still here to this day
idk why but DBZ and "Him" jokes go so well together
I read HIM, as His Infernal Majesty.
*Infinite Majesty
Thank you for being the voice of Z fans, you are Goku with the spirit bomb and we are raising our arms to you to send our energy, our contribution! Do it!
Factsss well said🗣💯⚡️
Toriyama is wrong about his own character. He might of intended for him to be portrayed a certain way but the fact is he was a hero in original z and helped push dbz to global recognition
Dragon ball super isn’t canon. Never happened. Its the voices in our heads
Yeah goku in Z always meant business in retrospect. He knew how to enjoy his life and protect what he loves in a sophisticated level for sure.
Z Goku was awesome, he's like a wise sage during the namek and cell sagas, even the Buu saga made Goku like a divine spirit, guiding the path of the living (for most of the saga at least).
Now in Super he's mostly a buffon, he does have it's moments of his old self, but he's mostly a fool, it's really depressing.
11:24 the creators of DBZA would 100% agree with you here
hot take idc what people say i prefer the dub superman goku to the sub goku
💯
Faxxxxxx
Same same same this 100x this
His Japanese voice gives me a heachache, but the lines are better in the original.
If you understand, consider the German dub. Gokus original voice actor in Z is an absolute legend in Germany.
Funi Goku was goated. He was the Goku I looked up too, don’t care if it wasn’t his original interpretation
Z Goku Squad Here💪🏾💪🏾 always show up on time ✅
@ Saiyan Scholar You said canon doesn't matter. You just became the G.O.A.T. my guy. Canon is easily topped by all the other works. People are delusional.😁💪💯
Ppl saying goku hero speech didn't fit his character is totally bs goku literally speard all the ginyu force members he didn't want to kill them even tho he has the power to one shot them goku is not a killer he could've killed frieza also but spear him
Actually, it was American dub BS. Original dialogue between Goku and Freeza was very different. In Japanese version Goku still a Goku even in SSJ form.
@@alexzero3736 we don't we love it
truth to be told, Toriyama is a bad writter who got lucky, the Dragonball and Dragonball Z we all fell in love with was Toriyama's multiple Editors fixing Toriyama's short commings and keeping the story and the characters on the right track
The more freedom you give Toriyama the worse his writting, simple as that
Honestly Z Goku is definitely Peak Goku! He's the Goku I respect A LOT as he was not an Awesome Hero to me but also one of my fictional role models like Naruto,Spider-Man,and a few others❤❤ He also inspired me to get into Better shape just like Tien 🥰🔥🔥
Yknow, none of this would’ve been a problem if we had let Akira Toriyama give Gohan the spot light back in the day. We would have been able to see natural progression through him to keep the story going, and enjoy Goku as he became a wiser mentor for developing characters.
GT Goku felt like a proper continuation of his character and maturity as a martial artist. Super's was a regression...back to Kid Goku.
And I find it ironic that gt Goku was the one turned into a kid, but was the most mature.
It's the producers fault. Unfortunately this isn't made for us. It's kids who play with the toys
I sometimes feel like DBSuper Goku was written to be more like T4S Goku. I like T4S Goku, but only within the context of T4S. It doesn't work in canon Dragon Ball.
That's a good point, Super Goku does seem like an immature child who can't function as an adult and just wants to fight strong people and doesn't care about the concequences for the people around him. I mean he put the entire multiverse at risk so he could have a tournament!
@asvarien Except he gave Universes fighting chance to not be erased so it doesn't seem so bad decision.
@@shadowspringtrap3122 Goku had no say in that, other than he gave Xeno (or more likely the grand priest) the idea. Goku had no regard for the possible concequences when he pushed Xeno for the tournament. He acted selfishly and foolishly. It just happened to all turn out right for him, which more down to poor writing than anything else.
Goku isn’t a good father, he’s a great one. One of the best written fathers I personally know.
The reason why DBZ was so beloved wasn't just because of Akira Toriyama, it was a team effort and his former editors Kazuhiko Torishima, Yū Kondō and the head of the anime production Takao Koyama contributed a lot to the success of the franchise, specially Koyama, he was a good leader and the glue that kept the things running, he also contributed alot into developing who Goku is as a character, Toriyama is a genius but his ideas are to crazy for his own good and he also changes his mind a lot, he works best with a team to giving him advice and keep things consistent, like the fact that he clearly created Goku to be a hero, and it's even stated in the manga, but now he changed his mind and wants Goku to be more of an anti-hero and that's one of the reasons why DBS wasn't as successful as DB and DBZ, the development team lacked a good leadership, they just followed Toriyama's vague instructions without any direction, one of the biggest reasons why DBGT failed wasn't because they turned Goku into a kid but because they made him dumb, and this time they committed the same mistake except worse because Goku is an adult this time, they didn't learned anything from their past mistakes, they needed a good leader like Koyama to make sure the team was on board of they same boat and to keep things consistent.
Damn this is a dope comment. Couldn’t agree more with everything said here.
That's what I think too. Most of the time in Z portion, it was the editor that helped Toriyama wrote coherent and meaningful story and well-written likable characters. Buu Saga is literally a result of Toriyama written a DBZ story on his own and has a lot of flaws. DBGT failed mainly because of franchise fatigue, not because of flawed story and characters, because despite the least popular series, GT is well-liked in Japan.
@@michaelpeak2438 thanks
@@MinhLe19303 Indeed, Toriyama works best with an editor Buu saga was not bad but had alot going on without any explanation, and many flaws. GT was indeed more popular in Japan than in the west but they don't care too much about canon, fatigue was one of the main factors but Goku's characters regression didn't help any better, and the quality of the series wasn't as good as it used to be, fatigue only happens when sometimes starts to lose quality, look at One Piece, it's over 1000 episodes and there aren't any signs of fatigue.
@@DarkShadow-pe6ud Hmm, you're not wrong. I'm not sure if Goku's characterization was a problem. Japanese fans don't seem to care about Goku's idiotic nature, and while I do think they upped his childishness and goofyness in GT, at the same time, they also increase his seriousness and heroism like how they did in old movies and fillers, so I wouldn't call it a straight resgression.
Watching this made me realize that Goten and Trunks would have killed it as protagonists for Super.
? What they ever do in Super?
Well said. Thank you. The only thing you missed is something I think i’ll make a video about one day soon.
-peace
I believe one of the reasons Super Goku does not carry the same weight on screen is because of the uncertainty he has when on screen. Besides the ToP, Super is just a losing streak for him. He loses to Beerus, loses to Sorbet (wins only because of Whis' magic), loses to Hit, loses to Goku Black and Zamasu, twice, and also loses to Fused Zamasu. Why would he be 'Him' if he barely ever wins?
In contrast, in Z, Goku loses to Raditz but wins against Nappa and Vegeta. Loses to Ginyu but wins against Frieza. For every one fight he loses, he wins a much more important one. His losses are used to set up the strength of the enemy and to show his progression, how he is later able to overcome even stronger foes. The longest losing streak for Goku in Z is in the Cell Saga where he loses to 19 and Cell. This is because the story was supposed to move onto Gohan now.
Good point!
Super is so poorly written you would think goku isn’t even needed for the story. At the end of the day goku is the main character and it’s bullshit how they have treated him in super
@@esmineldraaybara6975well, maybe. But Z Goku would do all that different... He always looking for solution against stronger enemy. What S Goku does after losing to Black first time? He simply rushes back into the future to fight him again, Brilliant idea, just brilliant.
I love how people use nostalgia when we look upon Goku in Z very positively while Super we look at him negatively. As I re-read/rewatch the series and sat down to really get a grasp of the situations, conversations and actions from an objective view, i learned a few things. Goku still has his flaws, moments of selfishness......but be it whatever dub you watched, Goku STILL cared for people, WOULD choose the more logical routes than just to get a fight in, learns from his mistakes, PLANS ahead, very insightful, not cocky about his own power and gains a level of maturity I dont see in Super.
For those who are quick to use nostalgia as a means to bash Z Goku, Im telling you to turn off your recency bias and look at Super Goku for what he is in every situation INCLUDING fighting. Because he does not stack up the way Z Goku or even GT Goku does. Mind you, it goes to show that despite how much people like myself did not like GT Growing up, Gokus character personality and execution was NOT a problem
To make it worse, he loses a LOT of his fighting genius, ESPECIALLY in the manga. I emphasize manga, because he literally has the same stamina issues in every form he gains and has yet to rectify that issue, whereas he more or less did rectify that in the anime to a degree where he can use Kaioken freely by the time of the ToP.
Goku is also emotionally intelligent as he sensed something was troubling Tapion.
Z Goku is the REAL Goku. Writing, Portrayal, personality is exactly what Goku is. He will always be the best variation and nothing will change that, not GT Goku
GT Goku is an extension of Z Goku as it's part of the same Anime Continuity. He changed after 97.
@SaiyanScholar Yeah, I totally get where you are coming from, but this is subjective basically
@SaiyanScholar yes 5 years after z
Agreed.
@@SaiyanScholarthank you for this video Goku is a Martial Arts Master who has some comedic moments espically during his beginning bout with FRIEZA but he quickly got serious when FRIEZA reveals he not even at 50% power yet and he had to pull out all the stops then eventually achieving Super Saiyan the Legendary Transformation of his True Heritage
you're the type of fan who loves or can just enjoy all aspects of a franchise. I am the same and we need more people like you who can take all this stuff in and enjoy it for what it is without being nit too picky
I have immense respect for you after I went through the entire video.
A lot of people fail to realize how Goku is supposed to be.
Goku from DBZ felt more authentic and it sticks throughout the whole series.
Beerus would never disrespect Dbz Goku. But i don’t think Zeno would like him as much lol
Hmm, so Beerus could actually went to the Future and destroy Zamasu himself? If it was Z Goku.
I’ve been watching dbz and I just got to the part where goku sacrificed himself against cell and man I miss the old goku. He was more mature at the beginning of z than he is now in super.
I never thought about, but movie Goku is a whole different breed.
This video explains perfectly why I play DBZ kakarot and sdbh on switch, I feel the same way about some of Sonic's character as well.
This is so good, i'm definitely going to rewatch DBZ.
the pictures of the super saiyans from the cell saga goes hard
I always love seeing him training then display how wise he is while fighting and even afterwards. The times where he messes up on small things reminds me of my clumsiness. It all makes me wanna train and I've been into martial arts since I was a kid cuz of him
*HELL YEAH A 30 MINUTE VIDEO FROM YOU!* _THIS IS HAPPENING!_
Well something to think about, it took Goku 18 years of insane training, not only on earth but with a kai after death, to hit 9000 power level at base form. Now it’s millions in any instant. There’s no struggle any more.
Z Goku seems more grown up, more mature and more intelligent. Super Goku has regressed in both maturity and intellect, Super Goku is an overgrown child who just wants to fight anyone strong and damn the concequences for anyone around him.
Another amazing video as always 🗣️
You were spot on with your dbz abridged point on fans love to bring dbza goku to main dbz goku
That was one of the smoothest ad transitions I've ever seen.
Z Goku is indeed himothy.
In Dragonball Super Goku's strength comes from hair dyes.
Damn straight!!!
One of the reason why I love kid goku is because he was fvcking alone with no family and goku never complain about it he didn't let anything brother him and you see when he has a family he change and love his family
nah Goku stayed dead after the Cell Saga even though he could've gotten wished back and didnt talk to his family or newborn son for 7 years
lmao he's horrible
@@KnucklesEmerald-wj9voit's not characters fault that Author changed plans. Instead of passing the towel to new generation Goku and Vegeta just returned for disgraceful money grab.
5:55 Nope, I wouldn't call him like that in DBS manga Goku. He maybe wiser on the surface, but his arrogant, insenstivity, naivity and the overall unseriousness are worse compare to the anime. Even if there're glimpse of mature decisions here and there, they happened far and few between that just jarring compared to how he act usually.
Exactly this.
Im 17 and I grew up watching toonami with my dad and I was shocked when I saw how different he was in super compared to Z
Toriyama’s Goku is one of the most influential characters in my life without a doubt. The way he’s portrayed in DB/Z/Movies is just so inspirational, stylish, and interesting. I’ll forever regard him highly as a character because of this.
Cant wait for more great content!
Its because super serverly regressed Goku's character. Thats why. People who say "Goku had no character progression" is following themselves. You can see the maturity of Goku from OG dragonball to GT. As with Super it just goes backwards getting basically kid Goku in Z Goku's body. Yes Goku was always a goof ball and likes kid around but he knew when to kid around he knew when to get serious as time progressed but not in Super.
Back in Z, that wasn't Goku, that was himarrot
As much as I like Super, my only real problem is how dumb they made Goku. Z was Goku at his best
Completely agree! Amazing video!
Great video
Super Goku is Stereotype Goku thats all.
Your content is getting better and better
I love you man ❤
Z goku is a fucking savage.
Saiyan Scholar,
Since This Was Another Analysis Topic On Our Favorite Saiyan Hero Son Goku / Kakarot,
He Still Be My Favorite Outta Each Z Warrior Characters
&, He Is Probably Not A, Better Father Like, Vegeta
But, Goku Sacrifice Himself For, Gohan's Future He Did Care Always Deep Down
Congratulations on the sponsor my man
A video released During my Birthday i am lucky.
Happy Birthday!
Enjoyed this video I love dragon ball franchise experts and their opinions no matter the difference I do respect each dragon ball franchise TH-camr
I simply don’t acknowledge Super as a legitimate continuation of the story.
I mean Z Goku definitely has a more mature attitude than in Super
To be fair during the tournament of power Goku had some z esque moments especially during the Jiren fight
You right about movie Goku. That dude just showin up is a big deal.
I think they can salvage gokus character and have someone like korin mention gokus forgot alot due years of brain truama
Goku was right because he is light.
Super was obviously made to be more child friendly they even took blood out of the series
Honestly! Goku in DBS is like a kid or an amateur!
I would have to say that Goku in DB GT was better as we can clearly see him, mature even as a kid. This is visible all the time.
Love all your Goku videos!
It is sad to accept but i guess the worst enemy of Goku is Akira Toriyama himself.
Well Said Scholar🗣💯💯💯⚡️ Tfs plays a huge role aswell indeed
His ability to talk as if goku were real I'd amazing
Great video
Dragon Ball Z Goku Is The Goat.😎👍
The original Dragon Ball series sees Goku start out an innocent and ignorant little kid, and throughout all his adventures he learns so much, even before the start of Z. In Z, as you said, he becomes a leader, an inspirational figurehead. But in Super he is just stupid. DBZ was made as a direct continuation to DB, and Toryiama never took a break in between these two arcs, and neither did the TV shows - DB ended in 1989 and DBZ started in the same year. However, Super came out 19 years after the end of DBZ, so it was inevitably going to be different. Too bad that those differences were for the worst.
Thank you
Good video! Love your longer videos!
7:30 yep that’s something they do with Lina a lot on Slayers. She’s thinking or talking to herself about her enemy. Which attacks she could try. What their enemy is plotting. What she can do about it or realising there’s nothing she can do. Sometimes even just running, it’s just impossible so they get a humorous “RUN FOR IT” moment.
The 90s, Koyama in charge of Series Structure like being a screenwriter for DBZ. Seems to have some connection here.
Fire content 🔥
Z is where it all “started” so to speak. It’s where Super Saiyan started. It’s where the quest for furthering one self really started to show power ups.
Goku on Namek, after gravity training on the spaceship is just insane. I was blown away with his Ginyu Force battles and then later we find out he wasn’t even super saiyan yet!?!?! Honestly, I love Super but Z is timeless.
Modern Goku: " I am insane from Earth".
Saiyan Scholar: "Theres the new warrior in-"
Me: "It's raid shadow legends isn't it."
People "proving" DBZ Goku's "stupidity" in a nutshell:
They can't tell the difference between naivety and stupidity, and they like to scroll past all of the reasons for Goku's questionable choices
I honestly think they are gaslightibg themselves lmao
I know this video isn't about Super, but I'd like to add one scene from Super to showcase Goku as a good father. During Gohan's little arc, when he's trying to find motivation again and has taken the mantel of the Great Sayiaman back up, Goku offers to train with Gohan. Gohan declines as Gohan, but says that Sayiaman would take up the challenge. Goku actually plays along and gets into character for Gohan. Anything to motivate his son and spend some time with him. Of course there was a fight involved, but it was simply because it was Gohan he was up against. You can tell at the end just how much both of them enjoyed the fight, despite Chi Chi yelling at them. That was a great father-son moment.