This is a beautiful game and its quality and top shelf production make it worth it! As you approach the $200 mark, anything less than this game's print quality is a non-starter, IMO.
This game is far too complex. I’d say this is a perfect 5 in terms of weight and complexity. Individual missions can have 135+ counters. Very few people in the world can handle this level of weight. Truly beautiful but additionally, the balancing is going to be really tough to assess.
I don't think this one is far too complex, but then again I really dig this time period and especially the ground aspect, as opposed to something like Red Storm that deals only with the air campaign. The smaller exercises will teach you in a stepped learning approach about all aspects of the game, and there aren't a lot of counters in use in those. Then you graduate up into the battles, where the counter density, detail, and complexity increases. These give you some fun and meaty scenarios to dig into. Then you can opt to play the full campaign games if you've got the time and space. All depends on what your tolerance and interest level is. Balancing in wargames is kind of an odd thing since no side wants to fight a balanced battle. You always want to be able to overwhelm the enemy when possible, but many games will try to keep things balanced in terms of assets and units available. How the person plays them will have a greater influence on overall balance I think. But that's part of the exploration and learning curve with wargames and why they're so compelling in comparison to other games in the overall hobby, IMO.
Third World War is a much better buy with nearly same production value. TWW is much larger in scope and more playable. Frankly, when these what-if 80s games get so granular and detailed with the rules it makes for a purely academic exercise, since nobody knows if the rules detailing the weapons interactions are accurate. So, nobody can tell which game is more realistic, TWW, or a game like this. So, go with the more playable game, IMO. I will give you another example......there is evidence based on the 1991 Gulf War, that had Warsaw Pact attacked Germany in the mid to late 80s, NATO would have slaughtered them, since the USSR was likely two generations behind in almost all aspects of weapons technology. None of these games really portray that accurately. In the 80s, the U.S. government may not have even understood this so game developers like SPI produced games that portrayed a rather dire situation for NATO.
@@patiencezero-xc9zlagreed. I think the current war in Ukraine also tells us the Red Army is/was quite lacking compared to conventional wisdom at the time. Makes me rethink those 80s WWIII games in terms of WP capabilities.
@@patiencezero-xc9zl "with nearly same production value" that is just out and out false. I own both and Red Strike's production is lightyears ahead of TWW DSE. And while TWW is a great game and definitely less fiddly, its a non-starter for "realism" because it models AirLand Battle so poorly, to say nothing of the incorrect OoB. Red Strike may not be a perfect 10 on the realism scale either but it's mechanics actually show how NATO and PACT intended to fight. Besides, Red Strike isn't to be judged solely on the campaign, but rather on the battle scenarios, which are still very heavy but far more manageable.
The game looks great. I received it last week. I was shocked at the weight (in lbs. not complexity). Excited to start digging into the rules.
It doubles as a great workout piece too! lol
Great breakdown of what's in the box
Thanks Mark, glad you liked it!
Will you have a video about storage solutions for the game components
I will, as soon as I get a chance to sort the counters and shoot the video. :)
I have, and play, Red Storm. The level of complexity and detail for this game is absurd. Great for reference, but silly to even attempt to play.
Love the game well done playing Monday 12/11
Excellent!
Sadly my friend had to cancel so will get bs k on the list soon
This is a beautiful game and its quality and top shelf production make it worth it! As you approach the $200 mark, anything less than this game's print quality is a non-starter, IMO.
Agreed, it's definitely boutique quality which VUCA is setting the bar on against all others right now.
Well, you made me buy a copy. Thanks - I guess...:)
Happy to help you make an informed decision! And being an enabler, that's what we wargamers are for each other. lol
This game is far too complex. I’d say this is a perfect 5 in terms of weight and complexity. Individual missions can have 135+ counters. Very few people in the world can handle this level of weight. Truly beautiful but additionally, the balancing is going to be really tough to assess.
I don't think this one is far too complex, but then again I really dig this time period and especially the ground aspect, as opposed to something like Red Storm that deals only with the air campaign. The smaller exercises will teach you in a stepped learning approach about all aspects of the game, and there aren't a lot of counters in use in those. Then you graduate up into the battles, where the counter density, detail, and complexity increases. These give you some fun and meaty scenarios to dig into. Then you can opt to play the full campaign games if you've got the time and space. All depends on what your tolerance and interest level is.
Balancing in wargames is kind of an odd thing since no side wants to fight a balanced battle. You always want to be able to overwhelm the enemy when possible, but many games will try to keep things balanced in terms of assets and units available. How the person plays them will have a greater influence on overall balance I think. But that's part of the exploration and learning curve with wargames and why they're so compelling in comparison to other games in the overall hobby, IMO.
Producion values look great, how will this compare to Third world war by compass games. Can only buy one
Third World War is a much better buy with nearly same production value. TWW is much larger in scope and more playable. Frankly, when these what-if 80s games get so granular and detailed with the rules it makes for a purely academic exercise, since nobody knows if the rules detailing the weapons interactions are accurate. So, nobody can tell which game is more realistic, TWW, or a game like this. So, go with the more playable game, IMO. I will give you another example......there is evidence based on the 1991 Gulf War, that had Warsaw Pact attacked Germany in the mid to late 80s, NATO would have slaughtered them, since the USSR was likely two generations behind in almost all aspects of weapons technology. None of these games really portray that accurately. In the 80s, the U.S. government may not have even understood this so game developers like SPI produced games that portrayed a rather dire situation for NATO.
Yes think TWW seems more playable, there seems to be so many layers on Red strike on top of eachother.@@patiencezero-xc9zl
@@patiencezero-xc9zlagreed. I think the current war in Ukraine also tells us the Red Army is/was quite lacking compared to conventional wisdom at the time. Makes me rethink those 80s WWIII games in terms of WP capabilities.
@@patiencezero-xc9zl "with nearly same production value" that is just out and out false. I own both and Red Strike's production is lightyears ahead of TWW DSE. And while TWW is a great game and definitely less fiddly, its a non-starter for "realism" because it models AirLand Battle so poorly, to say nothing of the incorrect OoB.
Red Strike may not be a perfect 10 on the realism scale either but it's mechanics actually show how NATO and PACT intended to fight. Besides, Red Strike isn't to be judged solely on the campaign, but rather on the battle scenarios, which are still very heavy but far more manageable.
Please flatten out the creases in maps when you video them my OCD is going crazy. 😁
It really seems fiddly to me, I hope I am wrong. It does seem like a great game if you don't mind that.
Every layer adds some fiddliness to any game, and there are multiple layers here.
I watched a talk through of a single air mission and to be honest its put me off the whole game.
Not for wimps.