This was such a fun video, man. The best part about this is that there are SO MANY stones left unturned - we literally just scratched the surface. BUCKLE UP, F1 NERDS 🤓🤓🤓
As a mechanical engineer, these are questions I have often wondered. I've also gotten to drive a number of vehicles, including open-wheel but am already biased since I started 'learning' on F1 2010. It would also be interesting to see how things compare on NASCAR. I can hit a 1:06.4 at Watkins Glen.... meanwhile the pole lap there was a 1:10+
What you can't see from telemetry is that in real life at low speed it seems much easier to catch a slide or oversteer, while in F1 22 the slip angle of the tyres is so wrong that when you lose the car is almost always game over
Ye, most people don't complain about traction, its more about the force feedback. iRacing is harder with traction, but its much easier to catch and feel when you have tire spin, plus the car doesn't turn into a ballerina with zero steering input.
I think the throttle application graph was telling a bit of a fib in this scenario purely because of the gear ratio chart saying that the 3rd gear had way more 100% throttle inputs from the real life meanwhile the 100% throttle input for the game didn't really come until 4th gear, further proving how actually slippery the game is
Before changing anything, I think you should try to do the same on a Q3 session on the Hungaroring (GP Mode). Tyre wear will be active and you will be dropping some grip as the lap goes on.
@@AlexGillon Of course! But you are chasing realistic results and there have been cases where tire wear have been reported to hamper performance in the sector of a quali lap. Of course those reports did not take into account thermal degradation or anything of that kind, but it's a pretty easy parameter to measure.
@@AlexGillon You can just raise the tire pressures to maximum and I think that will already make it spot on with the overheating in the second half of the lap!
My gripe with traction isn't so much how close it is to real life, as I have never driven an F1 car. It's that the FFB is so unreliable with the Codies game. With other racing titles, I can feel the back end about to go and can adjust depending on how the FFB feels. With F1 22, it's so random, and I have to rely more on visual cues than FFB because there's like a sheer cliff, and not a gradual loss of traction. And when you're busy with other stuff like battling for a position and looking at the opponent, you need to feel the car as your eyes are elsewhere. So the amount of traction isn't an issue. It's that reacting to it is not as intuitive as other titles have made it to be. And don't even get me started on the gear shifting. Esports guys taking a second gear corner in 4th gear and being able to go faster than 99% of the player population. I'm not expecting the game to be a full blown sim, but taking hairpins in 4th gear, sometimes even as high as 5th gear is just beyond ridiculous.
Well said.. power understeer sim into corners, power oversteer out of corners, super high gear just to remain grounded out of corners. It’s absolutely not realistic, I think I will listen to MAX, CHARLES, GEORGE who have all said it’s a bucket of shit
it got really bad in 2021 were it was impossible to finish a race, you get in the groove and in a rythm not even pushing at all and the car throws its rear away from you in a corner that was easy for the past 16 laps , made non-flashback races very discouraging
Yup, you can't tell when you are losing the car in this game. My controller only vibrates when I'm on rumble strips and sometimes it vibrates even on straight for no reason but not when I'm losing the rear. Because of this I'm scared to put down the throttle hard. Also, they lose their rear in fast corners as well? As they are a ground effect cars, shouldn't they have more or equal grip to like the old cars? This game is frustrating to play to say the least.
I've played alot of Assetto Corsa recently and i've noticed that when i know a car well enough, i'll be able to catch slides before they even happen because i know i i turned in too much for example. I never have that with F1 by codies
Part of the time gained in the F1 game is in eating part of the track you wouldn't eat in real life if you don't want to experience fernando Alonso Airlines or becoming an incredible fidget spinner
About the traction: you must compare gears used in the corners. You are probably 1-2 gear ratios higher than F1 drivers use in the same low speed corner (every single F1 player uses almost always 3-4 gear for turns that require 2nd gear in real life) so the traction is actually much higher at those gears than real life (in fact you can see in the graph how the gear ratios of higher gears are so messed up, just because of this). You can prove this also in the telemetry because in every single low corner you are carrying a higher speed than Russell just because you are using a higher gear.
@@superstar5042 They absolutely do. Take for example the first corner at Bahrain, it's always taken in 2nd gear, in F1 esports it is either taken in 4th directly or at the very least in 3rd immediately upper shift to 4th. Paul Ricard likewise has many corners that are taken in 2nd gear, or Marina Bay, to not let talk about Monaco (even there in F1 esports 2nd gear hairpins are quickly up shift to 4th, that's totally insane). Frankly what you are saying is totally incorrect, in fact there are probably more circuits in which hairpins or slow corners are taken in 2nd than those that aren't.
I think you should search Blake to know how much this gentleman been around as a race engineer in force India and red bull and been around people like Seb and max
For me personally, I actually think in low speed corners the game is a bit too quick, while in faster corners there is not enough grip (not only on the rear but especially the understeer).
Idk if it's a game issue or just a side effect from the cars relying more on ground effect this year for downforce. They're definitely naturally more understeery this year.
@@shoonx3889 exactly but it should be the opposite way roud with ground effect downforce they should be more understeery in low speed and not in high speed
@@shoonx3889 With the ground effect the grip in faster corners should be relatively similar to the beasts that were the previous generation in faster speed corners at least if I remember/understood it correctly (I also heard that people who drove actual simulators had more front end, a famous example is Copse). But in general they do a decent job with the handling with the amount of time they are given and their target group
this has been the case for a while in the game. It's insane when you compare really fast corners in the game and real life onboards. the grip difference in something like copse is often very big. But I think this was worse in older games. I remember, that those fast corners were horrible in f1 2021. especially because the AI cheated there.
Great vid guys. Only thing I’d add is I think the main criticism related to traction is the inconsistency + the use of high gears to almost hack what is possible from traction
yeah and thats why i thought the traction comparison is a bit dodgy and misleading since it should not be comparable at all like they did it. Alex shouldve used the same gears, so always 2nd gear on exit, as Russell and then compare the traction. Cuz the result would almost certainly be completely different then as Alex would not have been able to hit that throttle as much as he did in the video with a shortshirt to 3rd.
The one thing I do hear regularly, especially from pro drivers I watch play, like lecler, lando, albon all say traction is way harder in the game. Medium traction in the game is closer to the real thing.
I've heard that repeatedly but isn't that all in response to F1 2019 when they were all playing it during lockdowns? I don't think I've heard anything from any driver about how F1 22 specifically feels. Because F1 2020 came out and was way grippier than 2019 was I think in response to that feedback.
@@Nicolas_Cage_Bees 2022 is way way worse on traction than f1 2020 and I would say even worse than 2019. I enjoyed the physics in 2020 the most. I also drove a few f1 cars in other sims and they always have way more traction. It's so way harder to spin a RSS Formula hybrid than a f1 game car. f1 2021 was also fine for me with the traction, but in f1 2022 I am always afraid of the throttle pedal. that really should not be the case with such enormous tyres and so much downforce
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD Just because the wheels are bigger, it doesn't mean the tyres provide more grip. The low profile tyres actually provide less mechanical grip than the 2017-21 cars did...also less overall downforce.
@@alpacaman6256 a bit less not much less. so no, completely disagree with you. the current f1 tyres provide massive grip and that is not correctly represented in the game.
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD It is a significant loss of grip compared to 2021. More inertia, less fat spongy sidewall to flex etc etc etc. It's just a fact that the tyres don't provide as much grip this year, you can hear it on throttle. If you go back and read the initial thoughts of drivers from testing last year - they say the exact same thing: more snaps of oversteer, more sliding and waaay less grip on exit compared to previous years. I only play iRacing so I don't know how it compares, but if they added more grip to the tyre model then it would be ridiculously faster than the real car.
Haven't played a ton of f122 as I've switched over to ACC, but my main gripe was more that the traction when getting on isn't linear. There's no feedback as to how much you have.
My thoughts are, that in real life, you have the external elements on the body that plays a big role - which you do not have in a sim. Just the G-forces alone is probably playing a big role in unsettling the driver for the next corner etc. Also the risk of crashing is probably playing a role as well. In a sim you do not worry about loss of life and take more chances.
Odd, regarding traction for go on throttle, some F1-drivers (Lando comes to mind, if my memory isn't too far off) have said that the game-cars have less traction out of corners: simply put, the real F1-cars have more grip, they don't spin off as easily, when going on-power.
Alex, just a quick heads up, if you ‘fix’ the DRS, you wouldn’t be ‘neck and neck’ by Turn 4, the game would be further ahead as you currently lose time on the straights. As in you’d be 0.8s up not just 0.4s. Think you guys got it slightly wrong towards the end there… seemingly some more grip intrinsically in the game so maybe not quite as close as you concluded. Don’t forget also the really tight and twisty stuff happens in the second half of the lap which would compound an increase in tyre grip (likely more than just tyre deg). If you’re doing tyre deg perhaps you could do some more analysis long run lap deltas and see the lap time drop off rate compared to reality? Then you could filter that into an accurate quali deg and then you can isolate that variable and give you some closer metrics on grip differentials etc. I like the idea though… this is probably what game designers have to go through in the first place
Great video! Though I would’ve had engineer tell us exactly what his real life F1 experience is right off, and then lapped Russell’s Mercedes in the game with soft/med/hard tires. Haven’t played F122 but I think the series bases each teams performance on real early F1 season performance so maybe data trace wouldve matched up better than the Red Bull you drove :) And reading some of the comments it’s funny that some people think they know what a real F1 car should feel like to drive
Great video. My question for @brrrakef1 is: if power, drag and traction are roughly correct, then why don't drivers take all the corners in at least 4th gear IRL, like esports drivers do?
I came from the other side(Brrrake) and I always wanted to say this after watching F1 co op with Ben. "Let there be peace among us fans" ☮️ thanks for making the series entertaining Alex. Team Ben here.
one thing that you shouldve mentioned about tire grip is that in time trail it doesnt degrade. therefore you have optimum tire grip at all times. Also about the thermals, when you do a pitstop in a race. the first 1,5 laps are much harder to get up to pace because of the tire temps. i feel like they should extend that.
Really, really love this kind of video! So cool to see what the differences are and why the game might never be fully realistic. EA should prob add a new game mode to duplicate the the real world. That would be good for the hardcore fans to try and master.
The problem in the game is the AI, they always get perfect traction out of a corner, it's frustrating when you're 2-3 tenths back and they just disappear out of the slow corners, I've tried keeping up with their lines and traction, but just spin out every time even with short shifting
Really appreciate the effort you guys went through to analyze all the data but there is one variable that people seem to miss all the time when comparing the game to real life. Real f1 drivers drive the car in a cockpit. Makes a massive difference to racing lines, brake points and acceleration out of corners. A true comparison would be if Alex drove around the track in cockpit view. Alex wanted there to be little to none track variables and just car variables but the biggest variable is the view. I hope this exercise can be done again with the gamer driving in the cockpit. Would be way more accurate.
There’s a yt by Niels Heusinkveld, you know him, does pedals and programming, on how there are no conclusive models for tyres. Not even at professional teams or manufacturers. They just don’t know all that’s going on under there, so you can’t program for it either
I wonder if the type of grip (lateral vs longitudinal) is the big thing here, it looks like there's more grip when turning and all of that, but seems to be on acceleration where there's no grip in the game. Perhaps the way they simulate that is incorrect, but you'd have to really dig into the numbers to figure that one out.
You should definitely compare these results across all tracks, or at least a fair few of them, otherwise you will have confounding variables like track grip differences etc. Why is Hungary a super accurate one…? I would also ensure to drive exactly the same lines as the F1 drivers if you’re looking purely at driving physics. Little things that help the games be more playable for a wider audience (like kerbs with amazing grip) are abused easily in esports and make unrealistic driving lines as it’s faster in the game. If you stick to driving just like an F1 driver it should eliminate this. Also race fuel differences game vs reality would also be an interesting one to look at maybe? Idk just a thought
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The traction is actually good on F1 22 when you race in high downforce circuits, so I think Hungaroring is not the best circuit to do the traction comparison. The thing is in real life drivers are taking some corners at second gear and on the game we have to take it on 4th or 5th gear to not loose the car. It's not good at all. Nevertheless, great insights on the video!
I'd love to see Codies hire some engineers to help bring some insight into the game cause a lot of the games features are so stupid, like no downshift protection
i would have gone with miami tbh, or one of the newer tracks, cus budapest isnt that accurate to irl, but codies' newer tracks are much more accurate. maybe even australia since i believe that uses actual laser scan data
Yea I thought quite a lot about this, but my main consideration was kerb usage. It varies wildly compared to real life, so I wanted a track that had a similar racing line
What you really need to change is the camera(t-cam to cockpit). Otherwise you can't compare it exactly like you trying to do(you see way more in t-cam).
9:00 and 9:28 Am I dumb or is this a wrong conclusion? Alex loses time on the straights as the DRS in-game is less powerful. Yet he is 4-5 tenths ahead in turn 5. So if you make the DRS more powerful as in real life, you'd be even more ahead, not "neck in neck". You already gain a lot of time in the corners in the first half of the lap, not only in the second half when the lack of tire degredation becomes more relevant. So you just have overall too much grip, which is even enhanced in the second half of the lap. Which could also be due to setup, as you're just faster in most corners (funnily enough not in all of them though, maybe that's due to track inaccuracies in the game) but slower on the straights.
I looked at the data again and noticed that you don't really gain lap time in the first corners as your apex speeds are even a little lower/comparable to real life. So then I guess you have to get the time under braking. And regarding setup, on straights without DRS, you seem to be comparable, even slightly faster than real life. So you didn't just put on a setup which had much more downforce than real life, straight performance is similar, and cornering performance is also similar in the beginning of the lap. So I conclude that setup was comparable, DRS in-game is too weak, in-game braking is overpowered (gaining the lap time back you lost in the DRS zones), and tire degredation is too weak, giving you too much grip/apex speed in the second half of the lap. Basically what you said, except of the addition of setup and braking.
I think one reason why the game is faster and has better traction is the condition, in time trial there is always a perfect condition and also no tyre wear (maybe the say it also, didnt finished yet d: )
Interesting and nice to see that it’s actually not a million miles off all things considered. However, it really ultimately comes down to does the game “feel” like you’re driving a car and connected to it, and for me, that’s where the codies / EA F1 games fail. Which is a big shame because F1 has been a huge part of my life, all my life, and to not play the games is a shame, but they just dont feel good in my eyes, accurate data wise or not.
Entry understeer sim into corners, power oversteer out of corners, super high gear just to remain grounded out of corners. It’s absolutely not realistic, I think I will listen to MAX, CHARLES, GEORGE who have all said it’s a bucket of shit
on tire wear: is this being compared with a full weekend setup in f12022? from what i understand about tire wear in the game, it's relative to the length of race, so 70% of the 5 lap race has the 'same' tire wear as 70% of an actual race (avg 40-50 laps)? im not an expert, so some feedback would be appreciated.
Alex man love the content as usual..my go to to get my sim racing fix for sure. Question though what are your CSL DD GT PRO wheelbase settings for F1 22!? I can't seem to find that sweet spot and dial it in, so please please help me out man! Anyone else all advice and opinions are welcome!
The outcome is somewhat very misleading and they compared wrong things to each other. Alex lap was done under normal F1 22 shifting (perhaps slightly lower than you would go) but still higher than IRL and Russells lap. So essentially they are comparing Alex in third gear on the apex and throttle out of the corner to Russell whos in 2nd gear at that time and does no shortshifting, while Alex is arleady in fourth when Russell just upshifts to third. That makes a comparison impossible as traction is obviously different in every gear. Alex should instead have done his lap in the same gears (or as close as possible) as Russell. Because then the outcome would have been completely different as George is flat in 2nd gear and Alex wouldve had to be much more cautious while putting power down.
I dont understand how the traction is comparable. Russell uses 2nd gear on exit of T1 and obvviously lower gears all thru the lap. Alex shouldve done the same thing and then compare the laps. He uses higher gears (which is normal in the game ofc) so he gets better traction. So isnt the end result completely misleading?
So hear me out….if we always ran 100% tyre pressures it makes it much more difficult to keep the tyre temperature down and therefore makes it where you lose a ton of lap time. Is that what we should run at every track if we want the game to be more realistic?
Great content, so codemasters is indeed doing a good job, this is going to piss a lot of sim racers who never been in a f1 car. But wouldn't be better to do the test in a practice or qualifying session and not in time trial?
Well, the entire comparison is based on one lap where you don't lose the traction. So how the heck can he tell if the traction is right? This is a fun concept for a youtube video, but given how significant and divisive the matter of traction in F1 22 is, it seems like a negligence on your part to draw any conclusions from such a limited data set and then to suggest that people who play the game for hunderds of hours are more biased than a person who saw a single lap where the main issue of the handling model doesn't even occur. This is as unscientific as it gets, borderline manipulative.
It would actually be harder to tell the amount of traction with wheelspin! You're right though, if either lap was way below the limit of traction, the test would be pointless. But if you assume both laps are pretty close to the limit of traction, you can get a good idea of how much traction each reality would have. As for your other points, we do make this clear throughout the video, it's a sample of 1
@@AlexGillon The issue with traction isn't the amount of it though. The issue is the way the traction is broken - abruptly and inconsistently. And you can't make assumptions about it based on a lap where you don't lose traction. And the fact that you mention it being a sample of 1 doesn't excuse doing that. The expert isn't aware of the potential issue and you present him with a sample where the issue doesn't occur. How is that not totally skewed?
Fantastic Video but Why did you do this in time trial mode ? As it has NO tyre deg ! So this data is worthless & unfair in comparing the truest F1 22 simulation as turning tyre deg ON would effect every metric, especially traction which everyone complains about. On the next video would be cool if you could turn ON deg. Comparing the evolution of the tyre through the lap to real life & see how true it really is!☺️👏❤
Not realistic at all, can the F1 driver hit reset and try again if he crashes from pushing too hard? While the sim racer has no worries about what happens if you crash the car? Maybe add a feature to the game….every time you crash a car you have to pay real money to fix it…like $1000 repair fee to continue using that car or lock the game until it’s paid.
This was such a fun video, man. The best part about this is that there are SO MANY stones left unturned - we literally just scratched the surface. BUCKLE UP, F1 NERDS 🤓🤓🤓
Would absolutely love to see you test Monza
But this vid man, I love all the tech stuff in F1 irl & game
As a mechanical engineer, these are questions I have often wondered. I've also gotten to drive a number of vehicles, including open-wheel but am already biased since I started 'learning' on F1 2010. It would also be interesting to see how things compare on NASCAR. I can hit a 1:06.4 at Watkins Glen.... meanwhile the pole lap there was a 1:10+
@@hankthompson6171 your a walking W bcuz of F1 2010
Would have been cool to also compare this to a lap in the W13 in iRacing
yessss
What you can't see from telemetry is that in real life at low speed it seems much easier to catch a slide or oversteer, while in F1 22 the slip angle of the tyres is so wrong that when you lose the car is almost always game over
Ye, most people don't complain about traction, its more about the force feedback. iRacing is harder with traction, but its much easier to catch and feel when you have tire spin, plus the car doesn't turn into a ballerina with zero steering input.
probably because in real life you can immediately feel the slide by your ass but in the game you need to see it and it has delay which is crucial
That’s because ffb on f1 22 game is trash, you don’t have feeling
@@M3Rambutan Precisely! So much easier to catch a snap of oversteer when you're sitting in the actual car than when you're playing a game
I think the throttle application graph was telling a bit of a fib in this scenario purely because of the gear ratio chart saying that the 3rd gear had way more 100% throttle inputs from the real life meanwhile the 100% throttle input for the game didn't really come until 4th gear, further proving how actually slippery the game is
Before changing anything, I think you should try to do the same on a Q3 session on the Hungaroring (GP Mode). Tyre wear will be active and you will be dropping some grip as the lap goes on.
Good point! Although the wear will be minimal across a lap, nowhere near enough. But I will do a baseline lap before I start making changes
@@AlexGillon Of course! But you are chasing realistic results and there have been cases where tire wear have been reported to hamper performance in the sector of a quali lap. Of course those reports did not take into account thermal degradation or anything of that kind, but it's a pretty easy parameter to measure.
@@AlexGillon You can just raise the tire pressures to maximum and I think that will already make it spot on with the overheating in the second half of the lap!
And i believe in timetrial the tyre temperatures are always locked on the perfect temperature so there is no overheating
@@Ripsteri exactly!
My gripe with traction isn't so much how close it is to real life, as I have never driven an F1 car. It's that the FFB is so unreliable with the Codies game. With other racing titles, I can feel the back end about to go and can adjust depending on how the FFB feels. With F1 22, it's so random, and I have to rely more on visual cues than FFB because there's like a sheer cliff, and not a gradual loss of traction.
And when you're busy with other stuff like battling for a position and looking at the opponent, you need to feel the car as your eyes are elsewhere. So the amount of traction isn't an issue. It's that reacting to it is not as intuitive as other titles have made it to be.
And don't even get me started on the gear shifting. Esports guys taking a second gear corner in 4th gear and being able to go faster than 99% of the player population. I'm not expecting the game to be a full blown sim, but taking hairpins in 4th gear, sometimes even as high as 5th gear is just beyond ridiculous.
Well said.. power understeer sim into corners, power oversteer out of corners, super high gear just to remain grounded out of corners. It’s absolutely not realistic, I think I will listen to MAX, CHARLES, GEORGE who have all said it’s a bucket of shit
it got really bad in 2021 were it was impossible to finish a race, you get in the groove and in a rythm not even pushing at all and the car throws its rear away from you in a corner that was easy for the past 16 laps , made non-flashback races very discouraging
Yup, you can't tell when you are losing the car in this game. My controller only vibrates when I'm on rumble strips and sometimes it vibrates even on straight for no reason but not when I'm losing the rear. Because of this I'm scared to put down the throttle hard. Also, they lose their rear in fast corners as well? As they are a ground effect cars, shouldn't they have more or equal grip to like the old cars? This game is frustrating to play to say the least.
I've played alot of Assetto Corsa recently and i've noticed that when i know a car well enough, i'll be able to catch slides before they even happen because i know i i turned in too much for example.
I never have that with F1 by codies
Part of the time gained in the F1 game is in eating part of the track you wouldn't eat in real life if you don't want to experience fernando Alonso Airlines or becoming an incredible fidget spinner
About the traction: you must compare gears used in the corners. You are probably 1-2 gear ratios higher than F1 drivers use in the same low speed corner (every single F1 player uses almost always 3-4 gear for turns that require 2nd gear in real life) so the traction is actually much higher at those gears than real life (in fact you can see in the graph how the gear ratios of higher gears are so messed up, just because of this). You can prove this also in the telemetry because in every single low corner you are carrying a higher speed than Russell just because you are using a higher gear.
that's actually a good point.
F1 drivers usually don't go lower than 3rd gear too.
@@superstar5042 not true at all
@@superstar5042 They absolutely do. Take for example the first corner at Bahrain, it's always taken in 2nd gear, in F1 esports it is either taken in 4th directly or at the very least in 3rd immediately upper shift to 4th. Paul Ricard likewise has many corners that are taken in 2nd gear, or Marina Bay, to not let talk about Monaco (even there in F1 esports 2nd gear hairpins are quickly up shift to 4th, that's totally insane).
Frankly what you are saying is totally incorrect, in fact there are probably more circuits in which hairpins or slow corners are taken in 2nd than those that aren't.
Im doing it wrong 😭. I use 2nd gear way to often rip
Am I the only one who didn't expect this guy to have an American accent?
American engineers are pretty common in F1
Makes total sense why they won’t let Andretti in or Americans in…
He has a Texas state flag on his door👀
Chuck Leclaire
I think you should search Blake to know how much this gentleman been around as a race engineer in force India and red bull and been around people like Seb and max
Bringing my favourite F1 game content creator and real F1 content creator together. Watched a preview of Blakes on his stream, it is so good.
For me personally, I actually think in low speed corners the game is a bit too quick, while in faster corners there is not enough grip (not only on the rear but especially the understeer).
Idk if it's a game issue or just a side effect from the cars relying more on ground effect this year for downforce. They're definitely naturally more understeery this year.
@@shoonx3889 exactly but it should be the opposite way roud with ground effect downforce they should be more understeery in low speed and not in high speed
@@shoonx3889 With the ground effect the grip in faster corners should be relatively similar to the beasts that were the previous generation in faster speed corners at least if I remember/understood it correctly (I also heard that people who drove actual simulators had more front end, a famous example is Copse). But in general they do a decent job with the handling with the amount of time they are given and their target group
this has been the case for a while in the game. It's insane when you compare really fast corners in the game and real life onboards. the grip difference in something like copse is often very big. But I think this was worse in older games. I remember, that those fast corners were horrible in f1 2021. especially because the AI cheated there.
As embarrassing as it is, until this year I was playing 2013 on ps3, lol, but when I upgraded the first thing I said was holly f ing understeer.
Did you do the lap in TT? In that case of course you have more grip in the final sector, you have static tyre temperatures
Great vid guys. Only thing I’d add is I think the main criticism related to traction is the inconsistency + the use of high gears to almost hack what is possible from traction
yeah and thats why i thought the traction comparison is a bit dodgy and misleading since it should not be comparable at all like they did it.
Alex shouldve used the same gears, so always 2nd gear on exit, as Russell and then compare the traction. Cuz the result would almost certainly be completely different then as Alex would not have been able to hit that throttle as much as he did in the video with a shortshirt to 3rd.
The one thing I do hear regularly, especially from pro drivers I watch play, like lecler, lando, albon all say traction is way harder in the game. Medium traction in the game is closer to the real thing.
I've heard that repeatedly but isn't that all in response to F1 2019 when they were all playing it during lockdowns? I don't think I've heard anything from any driver about how F1 22 specifically feels. Because F1 2020 came out and was way grippier than 2019 was I think in response to that feedback.
@@Nicolas_Cage_Bees 2022 is way way worse on traction than f1 2020 and I would say even worse than 2019. I enjoyed the physics in 2020 the most. I also drove a few f1 cars in other sims and they always have way more traction. It's so way harder to spin a RSS Formula hybrid than a f1 game car.
f1 2021 was also fine for me with the traction, but in f1 2022 I am always afraid of the throttle pedal. that really should not be the case with such enormous tyres and so much downforce
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD Just because the wheels are bigger, it doesn't mean the tyres provide more grip.
The low profile tyres actually provide less mechanical grip than the 2017-21 cars did...also less overall downforce.
@@alpacaman6256 a bit less not much less. so no, completely disagree with you. the current f1 tyres provide massive grip and that is not correctly represented in the game.
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD It is a significant loss of grip compared to 2021.
More inertia, less fat spongy sidewall to flex etc etc etc.
It's just a fact that the tyres don't provide as much grip this year, you can hear it on throttle.
If you go back and read the initial thoughts of drivers from testing last year - they say the exact same thing: more snaps of oversteer, more sliding and waaay less grip on exit compared to previous years.
I only play iRacing so I don't know how it compares, but if they added more grip to the tyre model then it would be ridiculously faster than the real car.
This is cool, interesting and exciting stuff! Looking forward to the next part!
Haven't played a ton of f122 as I've switched over to ACC, but my main gripe was more that the traction when getting on isn't linear. There's no feedback as to how much you have.
For anyone wondering, the only laser scanned tracks in f1 22 is spain sector 3, japan, miami, saudi, imola, algarve, australia and yas marina
I think the difference in cornering speed is mainly due to the unrealistic ability to mount the kerbs
My thoughts are, that in real life, you have the external elements on the body that plays a big role - which you do not have in a sim. Just the G-forces alone is probably playing a big role in unsettling the driver for the next corner etc. Also the risk of crashing is probably playing a role as well. In a sim you do not worry about loss of life and take more chances.
Odd, regarding traction for go on throttle, some F1-drivers (Lando comes to mind, if my memory isn't too far off) have said that the game-cars have less traction out of corners: simply put, the real F1-cars have more grip, they don't spin off as easily, when going on-power.
Alex, just a quick heads up, if you ‘fix’ the DRS, you wouldn’t be ‘neck and neck’ by Turn 4, the game would be further ahead as you currently lose time on the straights. As in you’d be 0.8s up not just 0.4s. Think you guys got it slightly wrong towards the end there… seemingly some more grip intrinsically in the game so maybe not quite as close as you concluded. Don’t forget also the really tight and twisty stuff happens in the second half of the lap which would compound an increase in tyre grip (likely more than just tyre deg).
If you’re doing tyre deg perhaps you could do some more analysis long run lap deltas and see the lap time drop off rate compared to reality? Then you could filter that into an accurate quali deg and then you can isolate that variable and give you some closer metrics on grip differentials etc.
I like the idea though… this is probably what game designers have to go through in the first place
I would like to see this done in other F1 games like F1 2020, if possible. I think it would be really interesting.
Great video! Though I would’ve had engineer tell us exactly what his real life F1 experience is right off, and then lapped Russell’s Mercedes in the game with soft/med/hard tires. Haven’t played F122 but I think the series bases each teams performance on real early F1 season performance so maybe data trace wouldve matched up better than the Red Bull you drove :) And reading some of the comments it’s funny that some people think they know what a real F1 car should feel like to drive
Great video. My question for @brrrakef1 is: if power, drag and traction are roughly correct, then why don't drivers take all the corners in at least 4th gear IRL, like esports drivers do?
I came from the other side(Brrrake) and I always wanted to say this after watching F1 co op with Ben. "Let there be peace among us fans" ☮️ thanks for making the series entertaining Alex. Team Ben here.
Best f1 game video in a long time. Brilliant work I really enjoyed this.
one thing that you shouldve mentioned about tire grip is that in time trail it doesnt degrade. therefore you have optimum tire grip at all times. Also about the thermals, when you do a pitstop in a race. the first 1,5 laps are much harder to get up to pace because of the tire temps. i feel like they should extend that.
Really, really love this kind of video! So cool to see what the differences are and why the game might never be fully realistic. EA should prob add a new game mode to duplicate the the real world. That would be good for the hardcore fans to try and master.
The problem in the game is the AI, they always get perfect traction out of a corner, it's frustrating when you're 2-3 tenths back and they just disappear out of the slow corners, I've tried keeping up with their lines and traction, but just spin out every time even with short shifting
Really appreciate the effort you guys went through to analyze all the data but there is one variable that people seem to miss all the time when comparing the game to real life. Real f1 drivers drive the car in a cockpit. Makes a massive difference to racing lines, brake points and acceleration out of corners. A true comparison would be if Alex drove around the track in cockpit view. Alex wanted there to be little to none track variables and just car variables but the biggest variable is the view. I hope this exercise can be done again with the gamer driving in the cockpit. Would be way more accurate.
Amazing content! Looking forward to the next part
There’s a yt by Niels Heusinkveld, you know him, does pedals and programming, on how there are no conclusive models for tyres. Not even at professional teams or manufacturers. They just don’t know all that’s going on under there, so you can’t program for it either
Ok so the stats are similar to real life... but has he ever tried F1 22 and experienced the force feedback?
This is great viewing. ❤
Brilliant video with two legends in! Very interesting comparison indeed, didn’t think it would as close as that
This is such a cool video. Please please PLEASE do more videos like this and more collars with him!
I wonder if the type of grip (lateral vs longitudinal) is the big thing here, it looks like there's more grip when turning and all of that, but seems to be on acceleration where there's no grip in the game. Perhaps the way they simulate that is incorrect, but you'd have to really dig into the numbers to figure that one out.
You should definitely compare these results across all tracks, or at least a fair few of them, otherwise you will have confounding variables like track grip differences etc. Why is Hungary a super accurate one…? I would also ensure to drive exactly the same lines as the F1 drivers if you’re looking purely at driving physics. Little things that help the games be more playable for a wider audience (like kerbs with amazing grip) are abused easily in esports and make unrealistic driving lines as it’s faster in the game. If you stick to driving just like an F1 driver it should eliminate this.
Also race fuel differences game vs reality would also be an interesting one to look at maybe? Idk just a thought
The traction is actually good on F1 22 when you race in high downforce circuits, so I think Hungaroring is not the best circuit to do the traction comparison. The thing is in real life drivers are taking some corners at second gear and on the game we have to take it on 4th or 5th gear to not loose the car. It's not good at all. Nevertheless, great insights on the video!
I'd love to see Codies hire some engineers to help bring some insight into the game cause a lot of the games features are so stupid, like no downshift protection
This is excellent informative content. Well done!
Absolutely epic been waiting my adult life for something like this lol !
Very nice video,waiting for the next one
Now rewatching this video this is exactly what they did in f1 24…..
8:45 that was cool.
I think the traction complaints are not in general but are specific to wheelspin oversteer on throttle
i would have gone with miami tbh, or one of the newer tracks, cus budapest isnt that accurate to irl, but codies' newer tracks are much more accurate. maybe even australia since i believe that uses actual laser scan data
Yea I thought quite a lot about this, but my main consideration was kerb usage. It varies wildly compared to real life, so I wanted a track that had a similar racing line
What you really need to change is the camera(t-cam to cockpit). Otherwise you can't compare it exactly like you trying to do(you see way more in t-cam).
9:00 and 9:28 Am I dumb or is this a wrong conclusion? Alex loses time on the straights as the DRS in-game is less powerful. Yet he is 4-5 tenths ahead in turn 5. So if you make the DRS more powerful as in real life, you'd be even more ahead, not "neck in neck". You already gain a lot of time in the corners in the first half of the lap, not only in the second half when the lack of tire degredation becomes more relevant. So you just have overall too much grip, which is even enhanced in the second half of the lap. Which could also be due to setup, as you're just faster in most corners (funnily enough not in all of them though, maybe that's due to track inaccuracies in the game) but slower on the straights.
I looked at the data again and noticed that you don't really gain lap time in the first corners as your apex speeds are even a little lower/comparable to real life. So then I guess you have to get the time under braking. And regarding setup, on straights without DRS, you seem to be comparable, even slightly faster than real life. So you didn't just put on a setup which had much more downforce than real life, straight performance is similar, and cornering performance is also similar in the beginning of the lap.
So I conclude that setup was comparable, DRS in-game is too weak, in-game braking is overpowered (gaining the lap time back you lost in the DRS zones), and tire degredation is too weak, giving you too much grip/apex speed in the second half of the lap. Basically what you said, except of the addition of setup and braking.
F1 22 does not incorporate wind effects. Is it possible the real-life lap could have cross winds that may have affected lap times?
I think one reason why the game is faster and has better traction is the condition, in time trial there is always a perfect condition and also no tyre wear
(maybe the say it also, didnt finished yet d: )
Really cool video bro!!!!!
Interesting and nice to see that it’s actually not a million miles off all things considered. However, it really ultimately comes down to does the game “feel” like you’re driving a car and connected to it, and for me, that’s where the codies / EA F1 games fail. Which is a big shame because F1 has been a huge part of my life, all my life, and to not play the games is a shame, but they just dont feel good in my eyes, accurate data wise or not.
Blake bloody legend ⛳
What team did he work at if anyone know?
Red bull & force India says it in his TH-cam bio
he was Max verstappen's former performance engineer
Entry understeer sim into corners, power oversteer out of corners, super high gear just to remain grounded out of corners. It’s absolutely not realistic, I think I will listen to MAX, CHARLES, GEORGE who have all said it’s a bucket of shit
Should try this in the w13 on iracing
can you do this video concept but with the W13 from iRacing?, i think it would be closer to real life
It would be way more interesting if you got him to analyze data from an Asseto Corsa lap, cus that's an actual sim
Well, i think Iracing their w13 would be better for that.
This would be amazing with the iRacing Merc F1 cars
Looking forward to part 2!!
on tire wear: is this being compared with a full weekend setup in f12022? from what i understand about tire wear in the game, it's relative to the length of race, so 70% of the 5 lap race has the 'same' tire wear as 70% of an actual race (avg 40-50 laps)? im not an expert, so some feedback would be appreciated.
Tbf Hungary quali the track was a bit damp I think
Im so used to hearing blake waffle & joke about on his podcast, its easy to forget this guy is insanely smart & great at his job😂
you should do this but with the iracing w13
Go on career mode do a quali = tyre wear
Problem solved
This is a really cool idea
Great video🔥
I don’t think traction is difficult perse, but it’s unpredictable.
Hungry in 2022 qualifying and the race was overcast and the track rubber was low due to rain. Also hotlap mode is trash for realism.
Why is this video without sound ?
Imola is the best track for 1:1
I would like to see this but then with the iRacing W13 :)
Ensure that you are not on time trial though. There you have always optimal temperatures and no tire wear!
Play a 100% length weekend.
Alex man love the content as usual..my go to to get my sim racing fix for sure. Question though what are your CSL DD GT PRO wheelbase settings for F1 22!? I can't seem to find that sweet spot and dial it in, so please please help me out man! Anyone else all advice and opinions are welcome!
The outcome is somewhat very misleading and they compared wrong things to each other.
Alex lap was done under normal F1 22 shifting (perhaps slightly lower than you would go) but still higher than IRL and Russells lap. So essentially they are comparing Alex in third gear on the apex and throttle out of the corner to Russell whos in 2nd gear at that time and does no shortshifting, while Alex is arleady in fourth when Russell just upshifts to third.
That makes a comparison impossible as traction is obviously different in every gear. Alex should instead have done his lap in the same gears (or as close as possible) as Russell. Because then the outcome would have been completely different as George is flat in 2nd gear and Alex wouldve had to be much more cautious while putting power down.
It will helps a lot to if they make the track like real life
I dont understand how the traction is comparable. Russell uses 2nd gear on exit of T1 and obvviously lower gears all thru the lap. Alex shouldve done the same thing and then compare the laps. He uses higher gears (which is normal in the game ofc) so he gets better traction. So isnt the end result completely misleading?
based on this analysis, can anybody publish the mod can correct
So hear me out….if we always ran 100% tyre pressures it makes it much more difficult to keep the tyre temperature down and therefore makes it where you lose a ton of lap time. Is that what we should run at every track if we want the game to be more realistic?
I hope ps5 will do it in vr!
I always felt f1 22 was very close, can't wait for part 2!
now make a mod based on these findings
i think it would be better if you did a quali lap not time trial
Awesome idea
"F1 engineer" who only has televised digital brake data 🤓
That’s not bad is it ? To all those people that slag off this game !
Great content, so codemasters is indeed doing a good job, this is going to piss a lot of sim racers who never been in a f1 car. But wouldn't be better to do the test in a practice or qualifying session and not in time trial?
How?
Imagine thinking the F1 game is a simulator.
You want simulators you go to assetto corsa.
Well, the entire comparison is based on one lap where you don't lose the traction. So how the heck can he tell if the traction is right? This is a fun concept for a youtube video, but given how significant and divisive the matter of traction in F1 22 is, it seems like a negligence on your part to draw any conclusions from such a limited data set and then to suggest that people who play the game for hunderds of hours are more biased than a person who saw a single lap where the main issue of the handling model doesn't even occur. This is as unscientific as it gets, borderline manipulative.
It would actually be harder to tell the amount of traction with wheelspin! You're right though, if either lap was way below the limit of traction, the test would be pointless. But if you assume both laps are pretty close to the limit of traction, you can get a good idea of how much traction each reality would have.
As for your other points, we do make this clear throughout the video, it's a sample of 1
@@AlexGillon The issue with traction isn't the amount of it though. The issue is the way the traction is broken - abruptly and inconsistently. And you can't make assumptions about it based on a lap where you don't lose traction.
And the fact that you mention it being a sample of 1 doesn't excuse doing that. The expert isn't aware of the potential issue and you present him with a sample where the issue doesn't occur. How is that not totally skewed?
@@steelin666 Definitely a fair point and one worth looking into
Your using TT it has optimal tyre temps at all times...
I hate you Alex 😡😡😡
Im a huge fan of Ben 😅😅😅
Anyways love you guys I really enjoy Co-op best of luck guys ✌️
Fantastic Video but Why did you do this in time trial mode ?
As it has NO tyre deg ! So this data is worthless & unfair in comparing the truest F1 22 simulation as turning tyre deg ON would effect every metric, especially traction which everyone complains about.
On the next video would be cool if you could turn ON deg. Comparing the evolution of the tyre through the lap to real life & see how true it really is!☺️👏❤
0:02 not realistic at all
Yeah not the best doing tt, the car is always at optimal performance with no drop offs
Interesting
If they could make it more like an sim than a game..
Most deluden red bull racing worst control in high speed curve
Of course this dude drinks water in a nalgene bottle at home. Lol seemed like that kind of guy, I was right.
Not realistic at all, can the F1 driver hit reset and try again if he crashes from pushing too hard? While the sim racer has no worries about what happens if you crash the car? Maybe add a feature to the game….every time you crash a car you have to pay real money to fix it…like $1000 repair fee to continue using that car or lock the game until it’s paid.
LMFAOOOOO FUNNY
video out of sync .