8 Ball Pool: Blackball vs World Rules
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video Gareth Potts talks us through the key differences between Blackball and World rules, for 8 ball pool. In 2013 the IPA Tour has changed over to Blackball rules, so the tactical differences will be interesting to watch.
Gareth refers to the Chinese 8 Ball format, which Stephen Hendry has left Snooker to join. Gareth won the first Chinese 8 Ball Tournament, played in January 2013. For more details see our blog: www.homeleisure...
Gareth also compares these two sets of rules to the Chinese 8 Ball rules which he played when winning the International Chinese 8 Ball Masters competition in January 2013 - he feels these are the best combination of rules, removing the element of fluke from the game.
For more videos from Gareth Potts please visit:
www.homeleisure...
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We all know BlackBall rules are the way forward. World rules is just ridiculous. I put up with it for ages until i was introduced to BlackBall. I'm back to enjoying my pool game alot more.
If you're from the US, 2 shots after a foul is a rule of Uk 8 ball or Blackball Rules
I was taught a mix of the two somewhat. You don't have to hit a cushion ( maybe) 2 shots carry, free ball and ball in hand after any foul but no skill shots and in our version you couldn't pot the colour and black at the same time for some reason but since I haven't played in the league in a while the rules have been updated and I don't know what they are. I always liked this way because it incentivised strong play, clever snookering and punished mistakes so the better player could dominate. I also like that made snookering a big risk/reward manoeuvre as a foul would undo their set up and potentially backfire so it was used sparingly.
I used to be on the same page but I prefer 1 free visit only now. Once you reach a certain standard having two shots carry just gives you far too much free reign and doesn't really force you to show you skill as you have the knowledge for an entire break that a miss doesn't matter, I still have a shot in hand. I also hate the fact that purposeful fouls can often be to your advantage in world rules, just feels like something that should never be the case.
@@d4ve19 tbh i totally disagree, the whole reason you get the 2 shots carrying is because it's the result of a FOUL, a foul in any game is no small matter and is supposed to be punished harshly, if it's annoying that it's easy for a player to clear up from that position, don't foul. On the second point, intentional fouls are a great part of world rules, it adds to the strategic element of gameplay, and can result in some out of the box moments where a severe disadvantage can be strategically turned around with the right shot played well. Obviously we've all got differing opinions, and they're all valid i suppose, many people prefer one rule set over the other.
The Chinese 8-ball rules described here sound quite similar to American 8-ball rules, the ones also used by the World Pool-Billiards Association (WPA) under the "Eight-ball" name, right down to the numbered balls and called shots. The WPA also has the "black ball" rules described in the video as a separate event. Sounds to me like those are the rules he prefers.
they are based off american 9-ball which american 8-ball later adopted. not sure how it became "chinese rules".
@@somfplease American 8-ball predates 9-ball by about 20 years. Having looked it up some more in the years since my first comment, turns out what happened is that (WPA/American) 8-ball pool started getting popular in China in the mid-80s for some reason, but actual American l-style pool tables were few and far between, as up to that point China had mostly been a snooker-playing country. So when they started playing 8-ball pool, they just played it on 9- or 10-foot snooker tables using 2 1/4 inch solids-and-stripes balls. That became standard, to the point where Chinese 8-ball is now played on 9-foot tables, but with L-shaped flat front cushions, napped cloth, and tighter, rounded pockets.
Interesting to hear his comments on the Chinese version. Is that not the version that Stephen Hendry has been dabbling at?
USA 8-ball rules are different than UK 8-ball rules, and blackball is a version of the game played in the UK also.
Fouls in USA 8-ball as described by the BCA, WPA or the APA (look them up) results in ball-in-hand where the player can put the ball anywhere on the table. US rules do not have the "2 shot" rule.
What I want to know is:
In english pool world rules if a player on the black which is over the pocket but unable to pot it because an opponents ball is covering the ball so would not be able to put the black without fouling in the process therefore losing the frame.
They purposely foul as they cannot go for the black at this point so you have 2 shots. You have say 4 balls left but also purposely fould on your 2nd shot as you also cant finish because your last ball is covering the black over the pocket which means you will likely pot
Rerack
@@mkp007uk nope, in "world rules" in the scenario where the black is over the bag, and your opponent has his red covering it, but also intentionally fouls, you're now "foul snookered" and can nominate his red ball, and pot your black off of the red.
I play world rules one night and another night a mixture of rules. To me the rules we play on a wed night are the best. Have to hit the cushion 2 shot carry free ball after a foul and open table. No deliberate fouls and if your snookered you have to make an attempt to go for it. None of this play into space. It means if you foul you get punished.
yeh i dont mind the have to hit the cushion first rule. in my local no one bar plays with any flair bar me. even the leagues. we play two shots carry on. but cue ball doesnt have to hit cush. all you get then is tip tap bollocks. tucking up when youre balls are on. this cush rule would eliminate that
I am shocked by the two shots after a foul rule! I had no idea!
It seems appropriate for amateurs in a pub, not high level players. Getting two shots is huge, and a skilled player should be favored to win the rack in that case. I wonder if it originally came from casual play designed to help amateurs? That's how the APA league rules work, to help unskilled players.
Of course, if two skilled players are in the match, it goes both ways and maybe evens out (if not in the same rack, than over a match where multiple racks are required to win).
thanx I thought the balls were same size as cue ball. they look the same on the tournament tables on TV
The difference is only 1/8" so you would be unlikely to notice the difference on TV. 1 7/8" is definitely the correct size for a tournament cue ball. Thx.
If someone is total foul snookered on the black ball but has balls remaining at the time. Once they are down to this final ball is it still a total fould snooker considering you haven't put them in that position from the shot you've just taken? Meaning is a total foul snooker only if the shot you have just taken results in that appose to them being in this position a few shots ago but now only have this last black ball remaining area in a absolute snooker position. Does this still count as a total foul snooker? If I deliberate foul knowing they cant pot the black or hit the black without hitting my ball first is that a total fould snooker meaning they can use ny ball as a free ball then or not? As it's not that shot that out them in that position
So basically BlackBall rules are the same as American rules?
It's quite confusing with the American, English, Chinese, World and International rulesets.
I play the 8-ball mobile game which seems to be following the International rules but loads of people here in the UK seem to be following the American rules (2 shots after fouls that have to be played in the headstring zone).
The first time I ever really heard about World Rules in full was when I went to a trial for a pool team and my opponent played a deliberate/tactical foul against me and I was really quite surprised and asked one of the organisers if it was allowed and of course it was explained to me that it is. To this day I still believe that whilst it isn't cheating it isn't 'sportsmanlike'. (To be honest I recognise now that it was pretty stupid of me to turn up to a trial without being fully acquainted with the rules).
With blackball rules it does make the game sound a lot more attacking and rewarding for the stronger player though I don't think I agree with the concept of the skill shot, for me if you pot your opponent's ball whether intentional or unintentional, beneficial or not it's a foul and that's a factor you have to take into account when making the decision to intentionally do so.
+ashotofJD I play both sets of rules and know a few people who think similar and outright refuse to play a deliberate foul and it frustrated the hell out of me when we played in a team event together.
If deliberate fouls were illegal in World rules (but all other rules applied) the game would a be a joke. You would just have people covering pockets all the time and so many games would end in a stalemate where nobody wants to go for the finish because it would be too risky. Being able to deliberate foul makes covering pockets less of an advantage because the other player can always just pot your ball if he doesn't think you can finish with 2 shots.
As for your 2nd paragraph - I'm confused now.. so you don't agree with skill shot or deliberate foul? Again, as above - the skill shot is there for the same reason as the deliberate foul; so that just because an opponent covers a pocket doesn't mean you are screwed.
I just think there should only be one scenario when potting an opponent's ball(s) is legal and that is when you have a free ball. My belief then also being that if you opt for two shots following a foul, the first shot is a free ball but not the second shot. If you opt for one shot and ball in hand following a foul then there is no free ball. This is just my opinion on how the rules would be best set up.
@chocol8tsundae would you cheat to win? this "rule" of deliberate fouls massively favors weaker potters, it also slows the game down and more of a game of chess than pool. Like the miss rule in snooker - if you can see your ball should make an attempt to play it in my opinion.
@@utdkidswifeITO i disagree, there's nothing wrong with a pool match turning tactical, there's a wide variety of skills that come together to make a great player, not just potting ability. If it's not against the rules to deliberately foul, it isn't cheating is it? neither is it cheating to snooker someone. Some great matches have come off the back of someone pulling out a DF that nobody saw coming, turning the whole game on its head, and perhaps in your mind that would mean the "weaker potter" won, but in that case, the better PLAYER would've won, since the game isn't all potting, it's also about white ball control and placement, ergo it's also a tactical game.
It seems to me that describing his ideal eightball rules sounds a lot like the American version.
I’m pretty certain that Chinese 8-ball is only ‘call pocket’ on the 8-ball itself, flukes or any other element of luck are allowed even in professional competition.
I've never seen a table with side pockets like that.
This is an English pool table, which has pocket profiles similar to snooker - you may have only seen American tables which have "straight" cut pockets in the middle. The English ones are quite a bit easier to pot into from a tight angle, whereas on an American table potting along the cushion into the corner pocket is an easier shot to take.
the set of rules should be blackball rules but with called skill shot. none of the world rules are good, and makes tactical frame so boring, when you see a frame between Shaw and Appleton last more than 45 minutes because they can't play one of their balls both stuck in a pocket and deliberate fouls can't help, you know there is a problem somewhere and it's not their skill.
i'm nice ;) i can find at least one rule i think it's world rules (not sure) what could be good, it's for the break. if i remember you have to touch coussin with 4 balls and in blackball just 2 balls has to cross the midle of the table. then with WR you have at least 4 balls out the triangle. i say that because i know a guy who doesn't know how to open the balls and he always gives 2 shots on the break
pearsy1000 from open play, then yes this would be a foul in any situation and leave opponent with 2 shots, but calling it as a deliberate foul is up to the referee usually and would depend on the intent he feels was shown in the shot (such as how much power you put into it, did you put top on the white to run in after and knock it in etc).
pkscarr I asked that question before I ever played BB, since then I found out that an opponent/referee can't call a tactical foul if a player strikes their own ball first. Also, it's hard to gain an advantage from playing a deliberate foul as opponent gets a free ball so can strike any ball with first shot.
+SambucaJack You can still gain an advantage from it in a fair few situations. Like for example; opponent has just 3 balls left. One is over a pocket and has 1 or 2 of your balls near that pocket. But he has another ball tied up with one of your balls near a cushion and say has another ball near a pocket that has one of your balls over it. Maybe the black is awkward too. Taking out a finish in opponents position (or indeed gaining an advantage from the visit) is going to be very hard since he has to pot the ball over the pocket + free his ball on side cushion whilst being lucky enough to land on a ball he can pot.
World rules are gash. In every way. This is why i play for county blackball. Deliberate fouls should not be allowed. A skill shot is exactly what it is, A 'skill' to benefit you. A deliberate is something anyone can do.
but there are possible situations where you cannot play a legal shot
What county do u play for?
wold rules is the standard. blackball is just for novelty.
calling it a "skill" shot doesn't make it any less of a foul, just because you "can" pot an opponents ball off of your ball shouldn't make it legal lol. much prefer world rules, well thought out, reasonable all the way imo. each to their own though.
OK but why is the cueball smaller? its normally smaller for pub tables so the cue ball comes back out every time there's a foul .but should be different on tournament tables??
That is exactly the reason. Often tournaments used to use coin op tables so the cue ball would be slightly smaller, so that was adopted as being the official size.
Cool
On the TV and TH-cam the tables used have all the balls come out the same side
What size tables and balls are used for these pool tournaments ??
They are 7ft tables, with a 6ft x 3ft playing surface. The balls are 2" object balls, with a 1 7/8" cue ball. I hope this helps. Let us know if you have any more questions. Thx.
What size table is this? Looks bigger than the usual 7 x 4. Is it an 8 footer?
Definitely a 7 foot table!
Ah right, thanks.
what if I'm only left with a black ball on the table which is at the pocket surrounded by my opponent's balls that there is no way i can put a cue ball at any point what I can play the black ball , them my opponent make a foul den I've a free shot. is it an illigal shot to combine the black ball and my opponent's ball with a free shot?
With a free ball, if on the black, any ball may be played to pot the black for a win, and it's okay to pot any additional balls (except the white).
Thank you so much
Black Ball: Can a player win a game by first hitting an opponents ball on a free shot? While he is on black however black ball is near pocket covered by opponent ball
In italy we use a mixture of both rules, you don’t pick up the white after every foul unless it goes inside, you can deliberately foul, you can pot an opponent ball and your ball on the same shot, trick shots are allowed but then since the opponent’s ball went in its his turn, of course if the white goes in with the 8 you lose and if any other kind of ball (opponents ball) goes in with the 8 you lose, you can only send in the 8 using a trickshot or a ricochet off the rail.
Hi you just said about skill shot & said you must play cue ball from where it lands ? Then you say ANY foul is ball in hand ? The two statements contradict each other ? Please clarify ?
Hi Paul! Just to be clear, we're discussing the differences between two different rules standards here.
In World rules (unless its a foul snooker, IE you cant see both sides of at least one of your balls) you play form where the cue ball lands with no free ball
In Blackball rules, after a foul you have the option of a free ball or to pick the white up.
Hope this helps!
every set of rules is good, since both players have to deal with the same rules.
He sounds like Beckham
I got 2 Questions:
When playing these rules does a player have to hit a cushion?
Are Push Shots allowed because in some rules they are not allowed?
+Thomas Heal Hi Thomas, In blackball rules you must hit a cushion on each shot unless you pot your ball. Push shots are deemed as fouls and will award 2 shots to your opponent however shot's do not carry.
@@seanwilkinson4016 in world rules you also have to hit a cushion after every shot unless you pot your ball, push shots are allowed as long as they're played at pace and are thus not clearly distinguishable to the referee. a foul will award 2 shots to your opponent, the shots do carry.
If a player tries to play the 'skill shot' as Gareth describes at 3:07 but the yellow doesn't drop, could a referee then accuse the player of playing a tactical foul to leave the 8ball in a difficult position?
Just wanna know the rules guys 8 ball pool !!!!!
If i am on the black ball and my opponent has got few balls on the table and he snookers me than i take my shot and i was not able to touch black ball. Is that a foul or have i lost the match?
Faiyaz Hussain foul
foul and potential re-rack
Should of just kept it old uk rules! 2 shot carry, why change the rules it was fine for many years.
This video needs a total revision.
When it's safe to do so, we'll look into it!
@@HomeLeisureDirect been safe the last 2 years lol.
I play 2 shots carry except on black. After a foul always play cue ball where it lies unless it was potted then play from baulk line and you can shoot up table. No picking pockets. If on a foul you can’t see two sides of one of your own balls 🎱 then it’s a free nominated ball
Pool through the years(before blackball rules) it has ALWAYS been 2 shots carry on to the black,I don't mean to be rude but people saying 2 shots carry but not on the black are playing wrong.
I'd say it's the biggest source of arguments on a pool table in a pub,if you are in a pool pub they know its 2 on the black,but there are many people such as yourself that don't realise this
i need some help at work we have a pool table uk 6.3 foot table some one missed the ball they was aiming at. then then picked the ball up and placed it and also got the two shots is this legal i always under stood that in uk pool you got 2 shots and did not get ball in hand.
you would only get ball in hand in world rules if it was the result of a foul snooker.
I don't get why Gareth says you shouldn't get 2 shots on the black.... it would be ridiculous if you didn't when there are deliberate fouls since an opponent could just purposely deliberate foul if the black was in a highly unpottable position knowing that you only get 1 shot on it.
I think there's no question blackball rules are the best, but that said I do like the tactical frames that can arise when playing world rules. I don't think you can really have a combination of the rules tbh - as I've said, deliberate fouls are only in place because you can't combo nor do you get a free ball. So it's to take away the advantage of covering pockets.
You say that, but I know plenty of "good" pool players who are lost playing world rules. There are a ton of nuances involved in deliberate fouling.
Also, as I said you can't just get rid of the deliberate foul. The rule was put there for a clear reason. You absolutely need to have skill shots as part of the rules so that you wouldn't need to deliberate foul.
Anyway, it's pretty simple; just play blackball rules like the majority of people (including me) do nowadays. It's the better set of rules no doubt, even though I'm very good at world rules.
@Steve Ruddick on the right lines, however the 3 foul rule with loss of rack only applies to 9 ball not American 8 ball.
What happens when you pot a black ball and cue ball in black ball rules, do you still win the frame???
Blackball is how the game should be played, 1 on the black, free ball, no deliberate fouls ect. It is for players who can actually play a shot and dont have to snooker every second.
World rules are just ridiculous
I agree with you and as a decent snooker player i'm looking forward to playing in a blackball singles league this year. I'm not sure about the tactic of snookering all the time in world rules though. Seems to me that snookering brings no advantage when your opponent just taps the ball away. My biggest criticism with world rules.
@@Knightlore10
Yeah I agree its ridiculous
completely disagree, 1 on the black is silly, don't foul if you don't like 2 shots carrying. also deliberate fouls are fine, seen some great strategic games pulled out by someone who's been put at an incredible disadvantage, to then come back to win. depends whether you just appreciate potting in a game, or tactics and white ball control as well. Each to their own i suppose, i'll be playing world rules, you'll be playing black ball lol.
Getting 2 shots after a foul? Is that a new 8 ball rule? Never seen that one before.
That's one of the many differences between British 8 ball (also called blackball) and the originally American one.