The Parts Cannon PORSCHE? (MAF "Implausible")
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- The owner of this clean 2011 Porsche Cayenne V8 has been dealing with an annoying ROUGH idle setting a P1070 - "MAF Signal Implausible" DTC...for over 6 months!
Having fired the PARTS CANNON a few times with no results, he brought it over for an actual DIAGNOSIS.
Never worked on one of these beasts, but let's jump right in: gather some data, look up some info, and try some experiments :)
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Enjoy!
Ivan
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Really amazing how much difference a clean throttle body will make. Nice work Ivan.
Only if it's dirty enough to stop the flapper from closing. It only takes a little build up to hold that flapper open, which will cause it to suck in more air than it's supposed to.. This is why older cars had IAC (idle air control) valve, which could account for the small difference, and could then handle being much dirtier.
I always feel short-changed when there's no bonus footage.😄
I expected this one to be wayyy more involved than this haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics So did I, EASY FIX.
I have the exact same car, I use to get this P068 code about once a year, cleaning the throttle body fixes the problem, but I recently discovered that the massive air cleaners boxes are hard to put back together when replacing the air filters elements on both sides, it's quite easy to misalign them and leave the boxes not properly sealed, hence the TB getting dirty faster than usual.
Was it winter?
Throttle body inspection/cleaning should be part of the routine maintenance such as oil changes.
Good one Ivan.
Good idea.
11:42 LOL...I recognize that sound....dash camera shutting down!
Looks like he cleaned the front of the throttle body.
It’s funny how people always complain about the diagnostic charge since a lot of times they would save quite a bit of money instead of throwing parts at it.
I guess the biggest problem is that the industry overall has a bad reputation. Nice video like always.
That was thought as well, yes the owner cleaned it but just not enough.
If you don’t know you simply don’t know.
Had a 2021 Audi A5 2.0 turbo with 51000 miles and a P0068. Found a new Parts Cannon TB and a New Map. Smoke tested and found no Leaks. I went back to visual inspection and I found the air filter completely full of Leafs and Dirt and badly restricted. Mine drove fine. New Air Filter fixed Vehicle. It was a speed-density system. Nice Job Ivan.
Sweet diag and fix. You da man Ivan! Thanks for sharing these vids.
It always amazes me the massive effect insignificant looking amounts of carbon deposits on a throttle body can make to a vehicle's behaviour. These things are sensitive/precise!
Only if it's dirty enough to stop the flapper from closing. It only takes a little build up to hold that flapper open, which will cause it to suck in more air than it's supposed to.. This is why older cars had IAC (idle air control) valve, which could account for the small difference, and could then handle being much dirtier.. Without an IAC, you are 100% relying on that main throttle body to close all the way, and if it has a little gunk there and can't close, then it acts like a vacuum leak. The same thing can happen if a little water gets down there and freezes.
@@calholli Thanks!
@@calholli Actually it's the opposite...the gunk prevents enough metered air to enter the manifold! Notice the TPS values didn't change, but the engine could "breathe" better at idle :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Interesting. ok... I went back and looked and it seems to be just a little bit of both. The TPS went from stuck at 2.8, and dropped down to 2.6 -- so it is slightly more closed. And yet the incoming air went from 20 kg/h to 24 kg/h after cleaning. So it is definitely getting more air, even with it slightly more closed. Very cool.
@@calholli yup throttle had to open up a hair more than spec to keep the engine running and the MAP was reading lower than spec since the carbon was restricting the air flow 👍
i remember valet-ing a Cayanne a decade ago, it was dark out and it took me longer to find the ignition on the left than it was to get the vehicle back to the client. sweet ride though, felt like driving a cloud for that short minute.
Ivan, I took the throttle body off my truck which was running poorly, cleaned it, replace all the electronical parts (bought on Amazon) and now it runs well. Sure wish I had some data to support my actions instead of just guessing. Well Christmas is coming. Thanks for Sharing!
It’s amazing the acceptable tolerances in a modern throttle body assembly. Another NPR repair. The man is unbelievable folks.
Reminded me of a support call I received on a tape drive at the AG's office at Fort Know. I ask the Engineer if he cleaned the head on the tape drive. Yep two times. I arrived on site and the first thing I did was clean the head. Guess what. Yep fixed it NPR.
it was a great video to learn from. thank you Ivan......Pete
good job Ivan, at least your alldata program provides service information, the European alldata doesnt even list porsche !!!!
That's ironic 😅
Amazing what a little carbon can do. Watching you clean the throttle body makes me wonder why it runs about $100 in the shop.
Interesting - my '09 Cayenne GTS also has a 4.8 V8 - but I have a MAF on both branches of the air intake hoses (where the flex hose is on yours). It's really "fun" when I disconnect the MAF sensor lines to I can move the air hoses out of the way, and only remember to connect one sensor. I also love the alldata site for detailed info - fantastic resource for DIY mechanics.
Nice & fast diagnostic and easy repair! I'm not a big fan of the Porsche Cayenne, but that thing is a luxury beast :-)
Looks like the issue was the owner's understanding of a "clean" TB. It was nice and shiny, but what mattered was the air passages when the throttle was closed. That part wasn't so clean.
I have found that when the customer is complaining about a loss of MPG's, sluggish throttle and slopy or surging idle, it's usually due to a dirty throttle body. But nice job with this one Ivan. Killed 2 birds with 1 stone. No parts required and literally a 10 minute fix.
Excellent job as always sir you always start with the basics and research how the system operates you're working on to have a proper understanding of how a system operates. You cannot fix something that you don't have an understanding of how it works. Thanks for sharing wish all shops worked in the approach you take on vehicles. Unfortunately it seems as they just want you to scan codes and throw parts on quickly to get things done fast and return the car to the customer without proper repair or verifying the vehicle is repaired by the data as you always do.
That low key slight by saying "it's no AMG" -- was hilarious. lol
Finally, an easy one! And a nice vehicle instead of a hopeless hooptie. )
It is very nice when I don't need to wait for part 1,2,3...But, No bonus footage? How about a video like you did before with bonus footage? You said a ZAZ sounds like a Porsche? Well, not that one. Great video!
Good repair again, numbers “never lie “ is my saying every time ! Ivan, I damaged one “fly by wire throttle body” cleaning your way ! Plastic gears “inside dual TPS”. Cost me $500.00 to replace & re-learn . Now,,, KOEO put “hood prop “ on gas pedal,,, throttle plates WOT , electronically ( no touch by me ) Super clean & wipe, remove prop, start ! Took old one apart after,, badly worn by use, not meant to “ man handle” FYI, Only happened once ,, I broke it,, I replace it mentality! Don’t man handle anymore! Porche Throttle body ? $$$$$$. Have a great day Youngblood !
A NPR day is a good day, usually. Had a young neighbor fella a couple years ago with a Nissan Rogue I think, anyway it had cam phaser issues due to very poor maintenance. I gave it a very good flush and Italian tune up, basically charged him for 2 oil changes and He was kinda upset I didn’t put any parts in it . After a couple weeks He changed his tune and was very happy. 👍👍
‘‘Twas a Juke.
Owner will be happy with the diag and no parts repair Ivan , great job .👍
Nice to see the effect throttle body can have and how to clean it. I had my airbox apart, sprayed the mass flow and throttle body, did not get in there with a paper towel because it was in the middle next to the firewall, I guess I should have leaned over and scrubbed the walls a bit.
Yeah, crusted goo builds up behind the plate, far more behind the plate than in front of it. Must have something to do with the high velocity air after it's sucked through the small gap.
Only if it's dirty enough to stop the flapper from closing. It only takes a little build up to hold that flapper open, which will cause it to suck in more air than it's supposed to.. This is why older cars had IAC (idle air control) valve, which could account for the small difference, and could then handle being much dirtier.
My son's 2003 Accord had the same issue, cleaned the throttle body ( had no MAF) and EGR valve and good to go.
I worked on a rover with a bad throttle motor. It would fail the startup test and disable the throttle. It gave a code so it was a simple swap.
I’ve seen many times that a dirty throttle body is the culprit on drivability and rough idle issues.
28 mpg on the highway? How is that even possible with a V8 in a SUV? Implausible! 😊
Perhaps if you drive pretending there is an egg between your foot and the gas pedal and premium fuel with tires properly inflated one can do pretty good but the exact fuel mileage has to be done at the same pump like they do on TFL when they compare metered mileage to what is gotten at the pump. Every engine deserves an Italian tune up perhaps once a month and a long distance drive once in awhile. An engine like this likes to be driven.
Just drive it like a Tesla. Most drivers going any serious distance in Teslas are among the slowest on the highway, like we would do if running a fossil car on fumes, trying to reach the next gas station, where it would take forever to fill the tank.
Like the hyper mileage prius ppl.
@@erik_dk842 This dude sets the cruise at 85mph. Faster than that, the mpgs do start to drop.
The front of the throttle body was spotless. The rear was something else. Nice suv to drive 🚗 with plenty of zip. Good outcome with no parts required except brain power. On to the next one !!
Yep.. The guy didn't know to open it and clean the gunk behind it, which is what was preventing it from closing all the way.
😮💨
He cleaned the OUTSIDE of the throttle body.
The TB was cleaned on the outside.... looks sparkly clean
Geweldig gedaan top job. Groetjes uit Holland 👋🏼🇳🇱
Haha grappig zo plots een Nederlandse reactie
Nice car!!! I couldn’t afford the insurance on it!! Great fix Ivan
The normal wear parts are horrendously expensive. A terrible money pit, to Quote Scotty Kilmer.
It isn't much, trust me. 😁
@@erik_dk842 free oil changes and decent reliability, but some repairs at 100k worth maybe $1500 total over 4 years seems reasonable. With great towing capability and still seating for the fam while great handling. Idk.. wouldn't drive a chevy/ford/chrystler again.
@@fsaneil Almost $1000 brake calipers are "not much" in your world? The Cayenne/Q7/Tuareg platform parts are very expensive. Consider yourself lucky while it lasts.
@@erik_dk842 who changes calipers? I mean if you have on old chevy/ford, yeah they all rust out bad. Look under a 10yo Cayenne and compare to 10yo explorer. Different parts are used. Many parts in Cayenne are forged aluminum, not 100% sure on calipers material, but for $1000 you can get all 4 used calipers IF needed.
Also, use FCPEURO to get your new parts with lifetime warranty on everything. Even oil.
The main point of failure on a 958 Cayenne is the transfer case. That's all.
Watching from Kenya
Good data analysis and troubleshooting.
Wow, that's a great video!! I've cleaned many throttle bodies over the years for carbon and many maf implausible issues. As the tps tells accurately by ECM to meter air at idle. I get that. Too many electronics lol. At least you cleaned it all out and make it work right! Great job Ivan! What??? No bonus footage? Are you slipping, Ivan? Hahaha 😆 😂
I have a 2013 GTS, you better clean the oil pressure switch with every oil change!
The engine needs an oil catch can.
The bigger, the better.
My DIY can is filled with stainless steel pads with a drain valve on the bottom. I test it by inserting a clean cotton swab in the tube that connects to the IM. It always comes out clean.
The IV stays clean.
I was literally thinking the same thing. Direct Injection engines are famous for carbon issues of all sorts (wait until his valves get gunked!) so I predict this problem will return
All pcv engines should really have catch cans. Just most consumers aren't smart enough to service them at every fillup...
Pcv is really a great technology, it's jsut unfortunate that it introduces so much oil into the intake.
Hey Ivan.. great video as always! I found the best way to thoroughly clean any throttle body is to remove it. Then inflate a balloon and insert it the cavity. Fill the TB with TB cleaner and let it soak. Cleans it like new, and gets into all those hard to reach areas!
I would be afraid of the cleaner getting into the electronics (TPS, throttle motor).
@@peterperpetua2974 Done it many times, never had an issue. If you are worried about it, try it on an old unit from the crap yard, or on an old circuit board.
Too much work for the same result...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I agree, too much work for a shop. For the DIY' er, having a spare TB from the wreckers and simply swapping them out as needed, works great.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 😂
Great diag Ivan.keep up the great work
Hard to believe a high end foreign 2011 vehicle would still be using a speed density system instead of MAF.
VAG/Porsche have gone away from MAF back to MAP in a lot of vehicles. There has to be a good reason.
I have the 2008 turbo. Same 4.8 engine but with two maf sensors. They cost about 600$ each
the reason is the durability of the sensors
I didn't know that Porsche made a V-8 Engine. We have a Neighbor that have a Neighbor that has a 4 cylinder model that sounds kinda like a Volkswagen Beetle. He used to pass Me with it, when I was able to work. I think He still has it. I hear it occasionally.
they have made v8s for years my 1980 928 was a v8
there are no 4 cylinder Porsche
Maybe not now, but there used to be. It sounded just like a Volkswagen Beetle.
@@russellhancock9765 It could have been a 914 with a VW engine. There was also an early 912, which was a 911 with a 4-cylinder engine. Later there was the 924 and 944 with front mounted engine and the gearbox at the rear axle (a transaxle)
@@erik_dk842 Not to mention that the 1977-78 AMC Gremlin and Concord used the same engine that was in the 914. I think it used carburetors instead of fuel injection and was built under license in the U.S.
If you're getting a bunch of weird codes on your cayenne or most any newer 2005+ Volkswagen try putting a new battery in it. Low voltage makes those computers go a bit crazy.
Mucky throttle body strikes again lol.
Has the engine got some kind of blow back as its behind the butterfly valve.
That's the typical deposit location from PCV oil.
I still would have checked the Catalytic Convertor due to it's age as it may be restricted.
Easy peazy. Thanks Ivan!
I'm wondering if the TB motor or return spring is getting weak.
I had this same thing on a 2012 Holden commodore 3.6 Alloytec or for the americans chevy 3.6 Alloytec
He probably just cleaned the outside of the throttle body.......🤣🤣🤣
It ain't a Volkswagen when the money light isn't burning lol
Great work Ivan, I just hope for the owners sake he didn’t start with the sloppy cleaning of the throttle body before firing the expensive parts cannon!😢😢
That was step 1...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics if the throttle body was step 1 I’d love to know how much he wasted firing the parts cannon, clearly sometimes it doesn’t pay to self diagnose!! Take it direct to Ivan the magician for some trouble shooting👍
@@johnlarkin549 ha this turned out to be the easiest NPR repair I've done all year...on an exotic Euro no less!
NICE
I know cleaning the TB seemed to fix the issue, but it's likely the whole intake and valves are carbon coked and the engine needs a good cleaning. ;)
Direct Injection = Destruction Incorporated. 🤣 I doubt it's any better than the rest of them, probably doesn't have other fuel injection type/means of cleansing the intake valves/ports.
Lmao the owner just cleaned the face of the throttle plate 😂
Great going! Think it wasn't closing enough?
I didnt know these things had V8's.
We got a good covering of ice today, no school for the kiddo's but it also means my parts got delayed.
And I got two helpless FWD sedans with slick summer tires on the steep driveway xD
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics time for some blizzacks
Very good work 👏 🙌 👍 👌
I was going for the intake air at 140 degrees.
Another N.P..R video my friend.
What are best practices cleaning Throttle Bodies? Can we just clean, paying special care to the butterfly valve edges and the 360* area of the throat nearby? Or is there more that really need to be hit?
Woo hoo snowy day vid 👍
When people say they “cleaned” the throttle body its usually them spraying something from pep boys on it, not physical cleaning.
no bonus ?
What was iat reading?
Should really take the throttle body off and clean the back, barrel and edges.
I have a similar problem in a honda Accord, computer setting a MAF sensor code but the engine doesn't have a MAF, it has a map instead.. any ideas? Set a bunch of other related codes also 🤷🏼♂️
It's probably very similar to everything he just showed. Look for a vacuum leak/ clean the throttle body well/ test and confirm that you intake temp and pressure sensors are both working; and the same for your throttle position sensor. Check the plugs and make sure they don't have corrosion. The codes should give you more direction on which sensor is bad.
I think the same idea applies. Dirty TB or some kind of vacuum leak. Anything that causes more or less air going into the engine than the computer expects.
Thanks for your input, I checked with the scan tool which codes are currently set and they are: P0102 MAF Sensor low voltage, P2185 ECT Sensor 2 circuit High voltage, P0498 EVAP CVS Circuit Voltage low and P2647 VTEC Oil pressure switch High voltage.. I've been also trying to research if the ECU I have is wrong, i believe there are some for MAF sensor equipped engines and others are for MAP equipped ones..
I was surprised to see you just passing over an intake air temperature of 131.9°F. (at 4:15 in the video) That can't be right, and it's listed later in the video as one of the inputs that goes into the mass air flow calculation.
It was warm under the hood!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ah, okay. It's still surprising, though: intake systems should be designed to capture cool air, for best efficiency. Even as a matter of basic thermodynamics the efficiency gets lower the higher the temperature of the intake air, and it only gets worse in practice. But that's Porsche's oversight rather than yours -- or maybe this only occurs to a large degree at idle (less airflow so more time for it to heat up as it passes through the intake) and with the car stationary (less circulation of air under the hood) and so it doesn't matter.
Around 50c - or more - Intake temp is pretty much normal for a warmed up idling car , One of the reasons excessive idling is bad
👍
Funny how some cars are ultra-sensitive to throttle body hygiene and others could care less. Way back in some day I had a Mercury Sable that act like it was on it's last legs when the smallest amount of grunge built up in the throttle body, a little bit of BG Cleaner and it purred like a kitten, really weird.
Would carbon build up on the intake valves cause the same implausibility? Perhaps something to consider on a direct injected engine with a MAP sensor and no MAF.
Probably not...but might cause a rough idle due to low compression though lol
Merry Christmas PHAD style = no parts required.
Hey Ivan another great video!! What screen protectors do you use on your think tool pros?
The one that came with it haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics haha fair enough mine didn't 😔
NPR 👍
What chemical do you use to clean the throttle inlet valve?
Hey :) what do you mean by "parts cannon"? From NZ here and the slang is lost on me
Imagine a huge cannon and loading it with car parts pointing it at said car and lighting it off! Parts cannon!!! Except its just buying them and installing them without proper diagnostics.
Where's the bonus footage??
I think it's a vacuum leak I've heard that on manifold absolute pressure sensor systems it can throw them off quite a bit if there's a vacuum leak
The gunk in the throttle body keeps the flap from closing, so it acts like a vacuum leak because it can't close all the way. If water gets in there a freezes, it can do the same thing.
You would think a Vac leak would cause some lean running issues. And Fuel trim Issues, that could be found watching those pids.
No one will ever say to me that I took my car to Master Diagnostician Ivan to have my throttle body cleaned. I will never hear those words.
😅
Say what you will but I have a customer with a similar vehicle with over 240k miles, that stupid alarm siren caused all kinds of issues, easy fix BTW
Every time a take a ferry, there are always several cars' alarms going off every other minute, because the owners are to stupid to turn it off. Effin annoying, when you're trying to catch some sleep. Makes me want to make the alarm not having gone off from nothing, but instead from a broken window.
Did the trip computer show gas mileage go back up or was the owner bending the truth?
I just find it hard to believe it could change that much when the data showed problem was at idle.
Did you feel that was normal carbon buildup or is this one an oil burner ?
He said it went up significantly with no DTCs set :)
Sparkplugs, sounds like a diesel to me?
Not with a throttle body. The noise from the direct injectors make it sound like a diesel.
It gets 28mpg coasting to a traffic light is more accurate. Coming from a dude that cleaned only the front of the throttle body I think we need to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
That's what the onboard computer says at steady highway cruise...big torquey V8 that just idles on the highway basically!
Nice work Ivan! Although it's considered a Crossover vs a "SUV"
This "crossover" can tow 7000 lbs 😁
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🌷
I have seen differing opinions on moving the throttle plate with your hand. I usually put something on the accelerator pedal to open the throttle for me and then clean it when I work on my cars. Any opinions on that?
You can't do that if there's no physical throttle cable.
@@erik_dk842 I turn the car to run, so it's powered on and put cleaner on a shop towel.
I don't trust the computer...what if it commands it closed and chops off your finger? xD
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics lol, good point.
Not really any issue with opening the throttle by hand with the ignition off. Only problem is if the system is on and it ends up trying to fight you by closing the throttle, that could potentially cause damage.
I think a lot of people assume just spraying cleaner into the throttle body, cleans it. Not so!
IVAN QUESTION FOR YOU I KNOW YOU DIDNT USE IT IN THIS VIDEO BUT WHY DO YOU PREFER THE PICO SCOPE THANKS DAVID CRONIN
Because it's amazing 😁
(of an argument or statement) not seeming reasonable or probable; failing to convince.
"this is a blatantly implausible claim"
28 modules,,,ill stay with the dinky suzuki all day 😆
I bet the owner is kicking himself
Have you ever worked on a 2017 Highlander charging issues. I’m experiencing an issue with the stop start feature and battery charging indicator. I purchased a new battery and the issues went away for a week now it’s back.
Dealer states battery and alternator are fine.
Something is preventing the battery from charging completely. 30 min drive at will not correct it. If I put the battery on a charger it charges fully.
Something is stopping or draining the battery. Checked belt seems fine. All pulleys look to be fine.
I’m at a loss on this.
Any direction would be appreciated.
Hmm not sure about that... Smart charging systems can be really stupid 😅
They need specific batteries designed for stop, start vehicles. Don't cheap out and use a normal battery or what you described will happen
so are you going to get a porsch euro trash to replace the suzuki
NO lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics At least you would know how to repair it.
9:00 owner says that thing used to get 28mpg on the highway?
Yeah, and I can out throw Tom Brady...
Those cars are endless money pits.
3rd lol
snowy day perfect video