I remember when my wonderful neighbour spontaneously invited me to a performance of this at the Wigmore Hall in London, around 2014 or 2015. The orchestra performed many other pieces by Haydn but I was always so impressed with this particular symphony, and always will be. Haydn is such an underrated composer.
"Palindrome" (1772) Per l'originalità di tutti e quattro movimenti è, insieme con la sinfonia n. 42, la più importante delle sinfonie "in maggiore" di questo periodo. Giunto al perfetto dominio tecnico, Haydn non esita a realizzare le idee più audaci che gli suggerisce una fantasia sempre disposta ad uscire dall'usuale e a scuotere l'uditorio. Menuetto a rovescio: Qui il gioco diventa magia e l'abilità funambolismo. Invece di scrivere un minuetto e un trio bipartiti, Haydn segna, rispettivamente per ciascuno di essi, una parte sola avvertendo l'esecutore si suonare i due brani anche al rovescio. L'espediente è felicissimo. La musica procede a ritroso dalla battuta finale a quella iniziale ripetendo tutte le note, tutti gli accordi del viaggio di andata. Il minuetto, ovviamente molto lineare e molto accentato, e il trio, con i suoi bonari assoli di corno, sono tra i più riusciti di Haydn. * Questo minuetto ha un precedente nel minuetto "cancrizzante" contenuto in una delle suite del "calendario musicale" di Werner. LDC
The Menuet al roverso was also used by Haydn in a piano sonata. It contains a "mirror plane" in the middle. It sounds the same if you play the score forward or backward.
oneoftheSheri's This profound ‘sturm und drang’ symphony of 1772* - written the same year as the equally powerful Symphonies 45 and 46 - is rather too intense, learned, and original to be labelled ‘pretty’. It caught Mozart’s attention too; he noted down its incipit with the intention of performing it at his own concerts. You’re absolutely correct however with the rest of your comment. * 1772 was a Haydn annus mirabilis.
These symphonies of the middle period of Haydn have been neglected for long to thr benefit of the azst series. Iti is true that these last symphonies have a breadth that we do not find in the middle period symphonies. Bur tech series has is logic. These symphonies were composed for the Priinz Estherazy, who had probably the equivalent of a large chamber orchestra,, not the larger orchestra that Haydn ciuld find in England or in Paris. These symphonies take that peculiar aspect into account. Nowasays, many diectors are aware of it and conduct these symphonies with limited orchestras. Strings have more acerbic tone, the winds are more prominent, and the music gain a lot. The name 'palindrome' comes from the possibiliy of canon 'alla rovescia' of the minuetto.
The English composer Robert Simpson based his "Variations and Finale on a theme of Haydn" of 1948 on the Minuet. Then in 1982 for the 250th anniversary of Haydn's birth he based his 58-minute String Quartet No 9 on the same minuet.
@@familyman5013 The recapitulation is always - well almost - in the tonic key; it’s whole purpose is to give us the sense of returning home; in this symphony, the marching rhythm with the horns re-appear in the recapitulation in the tonic minor ie g minor - a typical Haydnesque stroke of originality. The point you make about the appearance of the sub-dominant major may apply to a sonata form exposition second subject, or to the tonality of the second movement; I am aware of only a few occasions in the Classical period - though more later - of this suggested oddity occuring in a sonata form recapitulation.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Subdominant major recapitulations appear in Mozart KV 545, 1st movement (the "Sonata facile"); KV 387, 4th movement (although this one does not start at the beginning of the 1st subject group). It is pretty common in early Schubert (e.g. D 664, 3rd movement; D 537 and D 575, first movement), but whether that is Classical is debatable. In any case, since the subdominant provides a sense of relaxation, there's nothing ungrammatical about starting the recapitulation in the subdominant. It is just rare. Even when the recapitulation does not start there, it often uses that key area, or the closely allied tonic minor or later the flat mediants (e.g. Mozart KV 465, 2nd movement - almost any mature Mozart recapitulation is a valid example). Charles Rosen made this point several times (it's clearly expounded throughout his "The Classical Style"). For similar reasons, the second subject cannot grammatically be in the subdominant in a Classical-era work, as it is supposed to represent an increase in harmonic tension from the first one. It only becomes possible later (e.g. Schubert, Trout Quintet finale). Rosen addresses the tonic-minor recapitulation of Haydn 47 in "The Classical Style", in his chapter on the Haydn symphonies. He points out that in this case the key "adds a new" tension by appearing where you'd expect the tonic major, so here it cannot be seen as a form of the subdominant (despite being on the flat side of the circle of fifths). He discusses it further in "Sonata Forms" - IIRC, it was a device from the Neapolitan school, and had generally fallen out of use by the time of Haydn 47. An easily found example from the 1760s is Mozart's very early Violin Sonata KV 9 (but then it is followed by the tonic major, suggesting already that it was felt that this can't possibly be a true recapitulation). I'd probably analyse the recapitulation in Haydn 47 as starting properly when the major mode returns.
@@doublesharp4325 You are entirely correct, and I think my own rather simplistic explanation of ‘standard’ sonata form very inadequate. I have not read Rosen for some years, I must re-visit it. Thanks for an interesting comment.
Nothing is reduntant in this wonderfu lwork. Thanks to prince Estherazy that allowed his Kapellmeister to innovate and experiment new solutions pouring out his creativity. Beethoven should have known this simphony . It is not as popular as other Haydn's work but has hidden treasures inside.
Andrea Griseri Mozart knew it; he jotted down the first few notes - along with the incipits of symphonies 62 and 75 - with the intention of performing it in one of his concerts. The little slip of paper is now owned by the Historical Society of Philadelphia. It’s not difficult to hear what Mozart found so intoxicating about this work; for example, the dotted marching rhythm - a particular later Mozart fingerprint - opening the first movement, along with the long sinuous oboe line over the bass; the two-part counterpoint in the slow movement; the palindromic minuet; and the slightly exotic feel of the syncopations and major/minor switches in the finale - and elsewhere. It is a fantastic work.
Na Atividade Dos meus alunos Prancheta de invençôes da Positivo Fizemos a dramatização da Sinfonia 47, A despedida Os alunos com o lenço Fazendo o gesto de adeus. tchau...Foi muito Legal!
I remember when my wonderful neighbour spontaneously invited me to a performance of this at the Wigmore Hall in London, around 2014 or 2015. The orchestra performed many other pieces by Haydn but I was always so impressed with this particular symphony, and always will be. Haydn is such an underrated composer.
"Palindrome" (1772) Per l'originalità di tutti e quattro movimenti è, insieme con la sinfonia n. 42, la più importante delle sinfonie "in maggiore" di questo periodo. Giunto al perfetto dominio tecnico, Haydn non esita a realizzare le idee più audaci che gli suggerisce una fantasia sempre disposta ad uscire dall'usuale e a scuotere l'uditorio.
Menuetto a rovescio: Qui il gioco diventa magia e l'abilità funambolismo. Invece di scrivere un minuetto e un trio bipartiti, Haydn segna, rispettivamente per ciascuno di essi, una parte sola avvertendo l'esecutore si suonare i due brani anche al rovescio. L'espediente è felicissimo. La musica procede a ritroso dalla battuta finale a quella iniziale ripetendo tutte le note, tutti gli accordi del viaggio di andata. Il minuetto, ovviamente molto lineare e molto accentato, e il trio, con i suoi bonari assoli di corno, sono tra i più riusciti di Haydn. * Questo minuetto ha un precedente nel minuetto "cancrizzante" contenuto in una delle suite del "calendario musicale" di Werner. LDC
The Menuet al roverso was also used by Haydn in a piano sonata. It contains a "mirror plane" in the middle. It sounds the same if you play the score forward or backward.
Who's here on 20200202?
I was. Gotta celebrate palindrome day.
I would have, if I’d known about this symphony!
who's here today on 12022021?
Very nice performance; beautiful sound. Thanks for posting.
such a pretty symphony, really enjoyable to listen to.. the flow is unbelievable
oneoftheSheri's
This profound ‘sturm und drang’ symphony of 1772* - written the same year as the equally powerful Symphonies 45 and 46 - is rather too intense, learned, and original to be labelled ‘pretty’.
It caught Mozart’s attention too; he noted down its incipit with the intention of performing it at his own concerts.
You’re absolutely correct however with the rest of your comment.
* 1772 was a Haydn annus mirabilis.
Really beautiful slow movement
These symphonies of the middle period of Haydn have been neglected for long to thr benefit of the azst series. Iti is true that these last symphonies have a breadth that we do not find in the middle period symphonies. Bur tech series has is logic. These symphonies were composed for the Priinz Estherazy, who had probably the equivalent of a large chamber orchestra,, not the larger orchestra that Haydn ciuld find in England or in Paris. These symphonies take that peculiar aspect into account. Nowasays, many diectors are aware of it and conduct these symphonies with limited orchestras. Strings have more acerbic tone, the winds are more prominent, and the music gain a lot. The name 'palindrome' comes from the possibiliy of canon 'alla rovescia' of the minuetto.
The English composer Robert Simpson based his "Variations and Finale on a theme of Haydn" of 1948 on the Minuet. Then in 1982 for the 250th anniversary of Haydn's birth he based his 58-minute String Quartet No 9 on the same minuet.
Listening to Bob's 9th Quartet right after this!
Thanks for uploading!
A nice surprise in the first movement is that the recapitulation is in the tonic minor (G minor)!
You are right;. The tonal rule is respected, but the new modality is quite a surprise.
The recap is sometimes in the subdominant major
@@familyman5013
The recapitulation is always - well almost - in the tonic key; it’s whole purpose is to give us the sense of returning home; in this symphony, the marching rhythm with the horns re-appear in the recapitulation in the tonic minor ie g minor - a typical Haydnesque stroke of originality.
The point you make about the appearance of the sub-dominant major may apply to a sonata form exposition second subject, or to the tonality of the second movement; I am aware of only a few occasions in the Classical period - though more later - of this suggested oddity occuring in a sonata form recapitulation.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Subdominant major recapitulations appear in Mozart KV 545, 1st movement (the "Sonata facile"); KV 387, 4th movement (although this one does not start at the beginning of the 1st subject group). It is pretty common in early Schubert (e.g. D 664, 3rd movement; D 537 and D 575, first movement), but whether that is Classical is debatable. In any case, since the subdominant provides a sense of relaxation, there's nothing ungrammatical about starting the recapitulation in the subdominant. It is just rare. Even when the recapitulation does not start there, it often uses that key area, or the closely allied tonic minor or later the flat mediants (e.g. Mozart KV 465, 2nd movement - almost any mature Mozart recapitulation is a valid example). Charles Rosen made this point several times (it's clearly expounded throughout his "The Classical Style").
For similar reasons, the second subject cannot grammatically be in the subdominant in a Classical-era work, as it is supposed to represent an increase in harmonic tension from the first one. It only becomes possible later (e.g. Schubert, Trout Quintet finale).
Rosen addresses the tonic-minor recapitulation of Haydn 47 in "The Classical Style", in his chapter on the Haydn symphonies. He points out that in this case the key "adds a new" tension by appearing where you'd expect the tonic major, so here it cannot be seen as a form of the subdominant (despite being on the flat side of the circle of fifths). He discusses it further in "Sonata Forms" - IIRC, it was a device from the Neapolitan school, and had generally fallen out of use by the time of Haydn 47. An easily found example from the 1760s is Mozart's very early Violin Sonata KV 9 (but then it is followed by the tonic major, suggesting already that it was felt that this can't possibly be a true recapitulation). I'd probably analyse the recapitulation in Haydn 47 as starting properly when the major mode returns.
@@doublesharp4325
You are entirely correct, and I think my own rather simplistic explanation of ‘standard’ sonata form very inadequate.
I have not read Rosen for some years, I must re-visit it.
Thanks for an interesting comment.
Nothing is reduntant in this wonderfu lwork. Thanks to prince Estherazy that allowed his Kapellmeister to innovate and experiment new solutions pouring out his creativity. Beethoven should have known this simphony . It is not as popular as other Haydn's work but has hidden treasures inside.
Andrea Griseri
Mozart knew it; he jotted down the first few notes - along with the incipits of symphonies 62 and 75 - with the intention of performing it in one of his concerts.
The little slip of paper is now owned by the Historical Society of Philadelphia.
It’s not difficult to hear what Mozart found so intoxicating about this work; for example, the dotted marching rhythm - a particular later Mozart fingerprint - opening the first movement, along with the long sinuous oboe line over the bass; the two-part counterpoint in the slow movement; the palindromic minuet; and the slightly exotic feel of the syncopations and major/minor switches in the finale - and elsewhere.
It is a fantastic work.
i guess I am kinda off topic but does anyone know of a good place to stream new movies online?
@Everett Leonel Flixportal xD
@Oscar August Thank you, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :D I appreciate it!!
@Everett Leonel no problem :)
Na Atividade Dos meus alunos Prancheta de invençôes da Positivo Fizemos a dramatização da Sinfonia 47, A despedida Os alunos com o lenço Fazendo o gesto de adeus. tchau...Foi muito Legal!
Listening to this for the first time on my 47th Birthday.
19:43
Check out my analysis of the first movement of this amazing piece here: th-cam.com/video/q88Q6nkwHRc/w-d-xo.html