Is it just me or is Arti a really freaking good caster? I find that If he casted the same game for a week straight, he would still deliver and have something interesting to say and I'd watch it. I'm never bored of him, his format's excellent, in a parallel universe I could see him either as a hostage negotiator because he's an excellent communicator, or an SCV on 5 health. As busy a life as I live, my first 15-25 min of the day is always coffee and SC. Probably gonna visit the paypal site for the first time ever at some point.
agree. I've never really cared to play starCraft, or Counter-Strike, or chess, or soccer, or basketball at the highest level, they were never really my game like that, but I've always been the biggest nerd and loved watching them being played by the best, so when you combine that with someone like Artosis casting a game, it's nothing short of artwork. It's a thing of beauty, and he has a way of making even the most inaccessible parts of the game to the average viewer, somehow become translated into tangible, understandable terms that everyone can see. Even though if I watched the game without him pointing out these little details, I would simply miss so much. Then there's the little gems he finds here & there, small things like the artist's signature left on the carapace upgrade... it's like a little kid who's just got a gift for finding and appreciating such things. Like m0nesy and how [if] you put a kid like that in a game like cs, he's just going to find out where the edges of the game are, how far he can push it, like he was made to find the secrets of the game no one else could, because he loves it more. The world needs more of it.
100% arty is the best english broodwar caster(sc2 would be a bit more competitive). I've watched scan, kcm, and other casters on occassion and they just kinda do play by play things. arty will often break down strategys, knows what players are most likely going to do(and gets very excited when something new comes out), and has just an excellent voice as well, good balanced mic, rarily fumbles words, etc. Definitely a league ahead of any other caster in the english scene.
Yeah I love how he gets into the details, a lot of casters (that I enjoy, like Winter in SC2) cover the game on a very surface level. As someone who isn't a high level BW player it's awesome that he communicates these things clearly so I can follow along better.
Arty spoiled me badly. I tried watching Winter for some sc2 content and geeez his constant breaking away from covering to make dumb jokes and just the way he talks grates me so fast.
The people have spoken: Mirror Match Mondays! One interesting thing your channel has is the predictable consistency. Doing a mirror match every Monday would add to that.
Yeah, took me a while to get used to how zoomed in he is usually. I don't understand why he apologizes every time he zooms out, when I can finally see what people are doing without staring only at the minimap :)
I HATE zoom outs. I feel like casted games are always more dynamic when the camera is moving to catch the action as opposed to just zooming out. I really felt the difference when ASL moved from 1.16 to Remastered.
I can’t wait to watch this when I get home!!! I used to watch these casts with breakfast but it’s now the crowning of my day. I watch it projected on the whole wall of my living room before sleep, when I eat dinner after work. I can’t comment from that computer but I still watch daily and read the comments always.
0:48 i guess it should be the actual percentage of mirror matches in relation to the ladder? Because your aim is fun and learning something new. People need to know how to play mm too ;) Keep up the good work! I watch your casts every day^^
By far the best mirror matchup - always loved the combined arms tactics and positional strategy of TvT. Really is a thing of beauty. The APM to play this at a high level must be insane, my tendons could never handle it.
6:20 Light harassment, eh? I think Kickback generally sucks for most of matchups but it’s great for interesting TvT, the layout prevents super long containments and gives ton of opportunities for attacks. Great game, wraiths truly were the heroes that carried it to victory.
I'm all for a mirror Monday. And remember that time the terran had mine played out in an arc across the entire map to see if anyone was coming in. Sweet play
I think mirror matchups are testing the core skills of the race - macro, micro, gamesense So it makes sense the best mirror player is the "best" player but they might not understand another matchup as well
TvT is great. Nothing like a drawn out, borderline stalemate, slugfest. Reminds me of every supreme commander or total annihilation game i ever played.
Being the best mirror player shows that you are capable of having a deeper understanding in a matchup than your opponents because you do not get to rely on any advantage or disadvantage that each race has as both players have access to the same thing. It shows that your macro, micro, strategy, decision making, and understanding are elevated to a level beyond players that play the exact same race. This skill does not directly always translate to the other matchups as TvT does not mimic the same things as TvT, but you can use that same skill set and apply a new strategy, while being really good at understanding the differences and execute in those matchups as well.
Great cast! I'd definitely enjoy a few more mirror casts myself. Been a long time since I saw a good PvP, always enjoy a TvT and Zvz is certainly something.
Great casting as always! I do think mixing in the mirror matchups is good, because hey, that's part of the game too! TvT can get pretty in depth and I like how there's more complex openers than the PvP and ZvZ matchup. Still, the trench warfare style is hard for others to watch, but it's like baseball, if ya don't know the game then you'll be asking "why are they just sitting there" X)
Hey artosis, about a month ago i read a yt comment suggesting to do a cast from only 1 players perspective, and you said you'd try it in a couple weeks. I was wondering if you still planned to do a cast like that or not, as it sounded pretty neat idea.
Winning the mirror has a higher correlation with being better. Makes sense. You often have to manufacture your advantage with the mirror (with some luck, but that evens out over time). In the other matchups, the race design creates power-spikes for you. That's oversimplified but it's MORE true for the mirror than the others.
5:33 Could they possibly add a 7th factory? Ok, but there's not chance they'd add an 8th factory, right? Ok, now bear with me on this one... what about... a 9th factory...? Alright, let me ask you this...
I think that you're onto something there. I remember the stats from Jaedong that it wasn't when he was behind that he won mirrors, but when he was ahead or even, the match heavily favored him. So, if you think about it, mathematically, if you win 50% against each other race's top players, but you can 65-70% against the mirror, you have an advantage, and the longer series go, the more that favors you. Also, picking one day a week for a mirror match would be 14%, so not much higher than 10%... give in Artosis. :)
Mirror matches are, imo, the most fun. I feel like it encourages the races to become more innovative. It feels like every unit becomes viable in nearly any strategy in mirror matches.
When facing the same race you must use pure tactical skill where as when you face the other races you can utilize the advantages over the other race that your race naturally has. You definetly must be more flexible and quick to switch tactics, plus your micro matters twice as much when you face the same race.
Regarding your mirror match question I feel that a lot of the top Zergs recently struggle in the mirror. If I’m not mistaken soulkey used to have a pretty weak zvz
Hell yes MIRROR MATCH TIME as to your question: its impossible to know. Player matchup is so important that it's hard to say. The best player could simply have a bad matchup against a specific opponent's playstyle and always lose to them, but otherwise be immaculate. "Who's the best" is a subjective question, and will always leave room for a handful of people to fit that spot at any given time if you were to ask everyone with an opinion. An example: FSP versus Gandhi at Dreamhack Winter 2013 in Street Fighter 4. Neither are the best, but the point here is that the player who clearly understood the game better lost because he couldn't predict his opponent's playstyle whatsoever. While that's a wild example for this, similar things can happen even in the best players. Starcraft is a lot harder to accidentally win as a novice, but it highlights that there's more to being the best than just a consistent record and game knowledge. And on top of ALL that, there's also luck at play. tl;dr im comfortable with calling them both the best and clapping my little thunderstick things together and eating my popcorn and cheering from the seats.
@artosiscasts, I always tell people who are unsure what race to play to “learn about each mirror matchup, then play the race you hate the mirror matchup the least” because each mirror match up (ZvZ, TvT, PvP) have extremely different nuances that can be fun for some and horrible for others. For example, Muta & scourge battles versus tank leapfrogging.
I was a Masters 1 Protoss, close to GM in Starcraft 2. I had 70% winrate PvP and 40% winrate PvZ. I was just bad at figuring out the timings in the match up, and how to properly scout how many units Zerg is building. Each match up definitely has a different skillset required, especially when it comes to how differently Terran plays for each of it's match ups in Broodwar.
Tbf StarCraft 2 and broodwar are very different games. Also I think artosis meant the point would only stand for the best players in the world. So if you’re a good player and the best in your mirror matchup, you were probably the player with the best game knowledge in your race since I find the metas for mirror matchups evolve the quickest, or at least is the most volatile.
Mirrors are the most important match ups. The meta or map pool occasionally shifts in favor one race. When that happens, the best mirror players of that race have an overall advantage
To be honest, for the lack of better word, ZvZ is the most "randomized" of all matchups, where you HAVE to take risks in every build order and continuously have to make very serious decisions. You are always one error away of losing a ZvZ too.
So the best player of each race should have the best understanding of their own race. It then stands to reason that they're favored in the mirror, because they understand their race better than their opponent.
I agree with your general assessment about dominant players in mirror matchups also being dominant players in general. I really enjoy all the mirror matchups but I understand why some are not fans. I think 1/7 days is reasonable for mirror matchups 🤷
I've been checking out this channel for the past month or two, I was starting to wonder if TvT, PvP, ZvZ were just not allowed or something. Good to see a mirror match! EDIT: I think a mirror match once a week or every other week sounds fine. And there's definitely an argument for both sides about whether or not the best mirror match player is the best player of that race. On one hand, the better optimizer goes a long way, yet there's more room for mind games since you both have all the same tools. At the end of the day, it's a 3rd faction to get good fighting against.
Maybe the best players are the best at mirror matchups because they know their race the best. You can get good against protoss by just memorizing their timings and builds, but when you're up against your own race you know everything about your opponent and how they can approach the game. So the player who really understands the fundamentals of their own race is going to have an edge in both mirror matches and the game overall
I feel like most of the skills required to master TvT do transpose well on the TvP matchup, mostly because they both usually rely on holding the early towards a macro mech transition. TvZ is a totally different beast altogether, heavily taxing the Terran player’s mechanical skills.
I think there is a correlation between being the better player in the mirror and the better player overall. After all if you can win the mirror you are more likely better at the game. That said its not a given. Being good at the mirror basically just means "you are better at this one match up", and although there cross over with other match up, its not a for sure thing. I say for me personally, there are better stats then "who is better in the mirror" for who is the better player.
Regarding the mirror matchup argument I think Soulkey would either be the obvious counterpoint, or the exception to the rule (depending whether the argument is incorrect or correct)
After beating Hero for the first time in ASL 15 I think, he pretty much became the best ZvZ player though (not counting Soma cause he's in the military).
I don't mind mirror matches, just when it's nothing but tank lines it gets kind of dull for TvT. But it's definitely one of the more difficult skill match-ups, but yeah, if they're the best in mirror match-up, it's probably safe to say they're one of the best players of that faction.
arty, when ForGG had a 90% winrate in TvT in 2013, NO ONE IN THE WORLD thought he was the best terran. I know that's sc2 but i think it's still worth mentioning
I love watching TvT, care a bit less about PvP or ZvZ. Mirror Match Monday or TvT Tuesday would be great, but tbf it doesnt really matter what you post, i'll enjoy a 35+ min macro game or a compilation of Cannon/Bunker/Ling rush games. I would love more Mini games, he's my favorite.
Hey Arty do you think the evolution of the meta makes for more powerful strategies over time, or is it just a cycle of reactions to active play styles? In other words if an experienced active player went back 10 years to play against the ladder at that time, would they, on average, possess an edge?
The best players are also really good at other races because in order to succeed at beating the other races you have to understand their build orders at a similar level The mirror matchup you know what you're race is capable of
Are there advanced stats for professional StarCraft? I'm really new to this, but the replays should have a wealth of data to create stats. For example, you could track how much hypothetical DPS someone produces vs how much they inflict? If this is already out there, that would seem a good way to compare players.
Winning off race matches requires you to be a good player. Winning mirror matches requires you to be so good you can defeat yourself. And that's tough. Whoever can remain supreme in mirror matches for any race is truly the goat, because by definition every time that person levels up their game and finds new solutions, *so does everyone else of that race*. The better the mirror king is, the harder their road becomes, since they're showing off new advancements directly to the people most capable of understanding those advancements and how to deploy them also. To be a good mirror match player therefore, you can't rely on builds, because the other player will immediately have your build too. You have to outthink or out mindgame or simply brute force with superior APM, which inevitably leads you to players who are a cut above the rest. Usually in the offrace matchups too. This doesnt apply to non mirror matchups as much because the asymmetric matches *are* sometimes won simply by having a more advanced build order, or an inherent weakness of the race, which does not necessarily reflect the player skill.
Reminds me i need new batteries for my Flashlight.
Hahaha good one bro :)
Fleshlight?
Now we just need a zerg player called "flesh" in SSL :>
Is it just me or is Arti a really freaking good caster? I find that If he casted the same game for a week straight, he would still deliver and have something interesting to say and I'd watch it. I'm never bored of him, his format's excellent, in a parallel universe I could see him either as a hostage negotiator because he's an excellent communicator, or an SCV on 5 health. As busy a life as I live, my first 15-25 min of the day is always coffee and SC. Probably gonna visit the paypal site for the first time ever at some point.
agree. I've never really cared to play starCraft, or Counter-Strike, or chess, or soccer, or basketball at the highest level, they were never really my game like that, but I've always been the biggest nerd and loved watching them being played by the best, so when you combine that with someone like Artosis casting a game, it's nothing short of artwork. It's a thing of beauty, and he has a way of making even the most inaccessible parts of the game to the average viewer, somehow become translated into tangible, understandable terms that everyone can see. Even though if I watched the game without him pointing out these little details, I would simply miss so much. Then there's the little gems he finds here & there, small things like the artist's signature left on the carapace upgrade... it's like a little kid who's just got a gift for finding and appreciating such things. Like m0nesy and how [if] you put a kid like that in a game like cs, he's just going to find out where the edges of the game are, how far he can push it, like he was made to find the secrets of the game no one else could, because he loves it more. The world needs more of it.
He has been doing it for quite a long time, and yes he is excellent. I'd say the best English StarCraft caster on earth.
100% arty is the best english broodwar caster(sc2 would be a bit more competitive). I've watched scan, kcm, and other casters on occassion and they just kinda do play by play things. arty will often break down strategys, knows what players are most likely going to do(and gets very excited when something new comes out), and has just an excellent voice as well, good balanced mic, rarily fumbles words, etc. Definitely a league ahead of any other caster in the english scene.
Yeah I love how he gets into the details, a lot of casters (that I enjoy, like Winter in SC2) cover the game on a very surface level. As someone who isn't a high level BW player it's awesome that he communicates these things clearly so I can follow along better.
Arty spoiled me badly. I tried watching Winter for some sc2 content and geeez his constant breaking away from covering to make dumb jokes and just the way he talks grates me so fast.
Artosis is trying to resist the call for Mirror Match Monday.
We could have 2v2 Tuesday as well. And Free for All Friday.
@@EebstertheGreatand sucks to be terran sunday
"mirror match mondays" has a ring to it
The people have spoken: Mirror Match Mondays! One interesting thing your channel has is the predictable consistency. Doing a mirror match every Monday would add to that.
After football sundays what's better than mirror match mondays?
One mirror matchup per week sounds just about right.
I think mirror matchup stats best show how well a player understands their own race which usually translates to being the best at that race.
Also it gives them the most freedom since they don’t have to work with quirks of asymmetric balance of other races.
TvT is so good and keep on zooming out, not just in TvT but also in other late game situations. Thx for the content as always, I do appreciate it.
Yeah, took me a while to get used to how zoomed in he is usually. I don't understand why he apologizes every time he zooms out, when I can finally see what people are doing without staring only at the minimap :)
I HATE zoom outs. I feel like casted games are always more dynamic when the camera is moving to catch the action as opposed to just zooming out. I really felt the difference when ASL moved from 1.16 to Remastered.
I can’t wait to watch this when I get home!!! I used to watch these casts with breakfast but it’s now the crowning of my day. I watch it projected on the whole wall of my living room before sleep, when I eat dinner after work. I can’t comment from that computer but I still watch daily and read the comments always.
I find TvT to be the most interesting mirror match since it is heavily positional, fighting for an inch makes or breaks it.
I do not care who plays, so long as you cast it. But Flash vs Light!? We are spoiled.
0:48 i guess it should be the actual percentage of mirror matches in relation to the ladder?
Because your aim is fun and learning something new. People need to know how to play mm too ;)
Keep up the good work!
I watch your casts every day^^
Daily dose of chills delivers again!
By far the best mirror matchup - always loved the combined arms tactics and positional strategy of TvT. Really is a thing of beauty. The APM to play this at a high level must be insane, my tendons could never handle it.
“Copy everything your opponent does in mirror match. Even if you don’t win, you’d troll him good” (Soon TvZ, Art of Warcraft in Space).
6:20 Light harassment, eh?
I think Kickback generally sucks for most of matchups but it’s great for interesting TvT, the layout prevents super long containments and gives ton of opportunities for attacks. Great game, wraiths truly were the heroes that carried it to victory.
You have a real talent for starting these videos. Love the video as always thank you artosis
10% mirror match ups sounds perfect
I'm all for a mirror Monday. And remember that time the terran had mine played out in an arc across the entire map to see if anyone was coming in. Sweet play
I think mirror matchups are testing the core skills of the race - macro, micro, gamesense
So it makes sense the best mirror player is the "best" player but they might not understand another matchup as well
TvT is one of the most interesting matchups in the game and you can see how strategic and tactical it is
TvT is great. Nothing like a drawn out, borderline stalemate, slugfest. Reminds me of every supreme commander or total annihilation game i ever played.
Love your mirror match vods. Would love to see more PvP❤
this is a mirror match I don't mind watching. Flash vs Light is an awesome match up.
Hopefully Flash tries to qualify for next SSL!
I don't expect him to win championship so soon, but even RO4 would be awesome.
Welcome to your daily dose of Artycraft.
Awesome game! It felt like the expansion trade was a case of buying time and setting up the counter-punch,.
And this is why you never ever underestimate air
Love it when they don't skimp and forget about wraiths in a TvT after the opening.
Good match
Being the best mirror player shows that you are capable of having a deeper understanding in a matchup than your opponents because you do not get to rely on any advantage or disadvantage that each race has as both players have access to the same thing. It shows that your macro, micro, strategy, decision making, and understanding are elevated to a level beyond players that play the exact same race. This skill does not directly always translate to the other matchups as TvT does not mimic the same things as TvT, but you can use that same skill set and apply a new strategy, while being really good at understanding the differences and execute in those matchups as well.
Great cast! I'd definitely enjoy a few more mirror casts myself. Been a long time since I saw a good PvP, always enjoy a TvT and Zvz is certainly something.
A mirror matchup! Thank you!
NICE, was waiting for a flash TVT
Great casting as always! I do think mixing in the mirror matchups is good, because hey, that's part of the game too! TvT can get pretty in depth and I like how there's more complex openers than the PvP and ZvZ matchup. Still, the trench warfare style is hard for others to watch, but it's like baseball, if ya don't know the game then you'll be asking "why are they just sitting there" X)
You flinch you lose
Hey artosis, about a month ago i read a yt comment suggesting to do a cast from only 1 players perspective, and you said you'd try it in a couple weeks. I was wondering if you still planned to do a cast like that or not, as it sounded pretty neat idea.
I like all matches, so just keep them coming whether they are mirror matches or not
Watching TvT reminds me of chess. The lots of static D somehow makes the army positioning more important in this match up.
As a Protoss monkey I actually love TvT
I think it has the most options of all mirrors
Most options? Doesn't PvP have more options?
as a protoss ape i also like watching tvt
Lol its always vulture tank and sometimes wraiths
The best test of one's skills is to compete with the same race.
Winning the mirror has a higher correlation with being better. Makes sense. You often have to manufacture your advantage with the mirror (with some luck, but that evens out over time). In the other matchups, the race design creates power-spikes for you. That's oversimplified but it's MORE true for the mirror than the others.
Artosis Casts with my Mornings is the shit.
This was the best TvT I have seen since Scan's TvT in last SSL
RoyaL vs Flash was great. I think Artosis casted it in this channel a couple months ago.
5:33
Could they possibly add a 7th factory?
Ok, but there's not chance they'd add an 8th factory, right?
Ok, now bear with me on this one... what about... a 9th factory...?
Alright, let me ask you this...
I enjoy a mirror match every now and then. Especially when it is 2 big names like Flash and Light.
I think that you're onto something there. I remember the stats from Jaedong that it wasn't when he was behind that he won mirrors, but when he was ahead or even, the match heavily favored him. So, if you think about it, mathematically, if you win 50% against each other race's top players, but you can 65-70% against the mirror, you have an advantage, and the longer series go, the more that favors you.
Also, picking one day a week for a mirror match would be 14%, so not much higher than 10%... give in Artosis. :)
If Jaedong chose the wrong build, he was even. If he chose the same build he was ahead.
Mirror matches are, imo, the most fun. I feel like it encourages the races to become more innovative. It feels like every unit becomes viable in nearly any strategy in mirror matches.
A Flash game is a Flash game and I love Flash games.
i gotta say, i used to cringe at TvT, but after years of Artosis' casting them i now find them super interesting. thanks Arty!
When facing the same race you must use pure tactical skill where as when you face the other races you can utilize the advantages over the other race that your race naturally has. You definetly must be more flexible and quick to switch tactics, plus your micro matters twice as much when you face the same race.
Regarding your mirror match question I feel that a lot of the top Zergs recently struggle in the mirror. If I’m not mistaken soulkey used to have a pretty weak zvz
Hell yes MIRROR MATCH TIME
as to your question: its impossible to know. Player matchup is so important that it's hard to say. The best player could simply have a bad matchup against a specific opponent's playstyle and always lose to them, but otherwise be immaculate. "Who's the best" is a subjective question, and will always leave room for a handful of people to fit that spot at any given time if you were to ask everyone with an opinion.
An example: FSP versus Gandhi at Dreamhack Winter 2013 in Street Fighter 4. Neither are the best, but the point here is that the player who clearly understood the game better lost because he couldn't predict his opponent's playstyle whatsoever. While that's a wild example for this, similar things can happen even in the best players. Starcraft is a lot harder to accidentally win as a novice, but it highlights that there's more to being the best than just a consistent record and game knowledge. And on top of ALL that, there's also luck at play.
tl;dr im comfortable with calling them both the best and clapping my little thunderstick things together and eating my popcorn and cheering from the seats.
Soulkey is the exception to your rule. Constantly knocked out by other Zergs in the early asls. Been the best player for a long time
But after beating Hero for the first time in ASL 15 I think, he pretty much became the best ZvZ player (not counting Soma cause he's in the military).
@artosiscasts, I always tell people who are unsure what race to play to “learn about each mirror matchup, then play the race you hate the mirror matchup the least” because each mirror match up (ZvZ, TvT, PvP) have extremely different nuances that can be fun for some and horrible for others. For example, Muta & scourge battles versus tank leapfrogging.
very good advice, i will remember that when Starcraft 3 comes out
Flash would have won.
with two terrans in one match there is a 200% greater chance to see nukes.
200% * 0 = 0
: (
I was a Masters 1 Protoss, close to GM in Starcraft 2.
I had 70% winrate PvP and 40% winrate PvZ. I was just bad at figuring out the timings in the match up, and how to properly scout how many units Zerg is building. Each match up definitely has a different skillset required, especially when it comes to how differently Terran plays for each of it's match ups in Broodwar.
Tbf StarCraft 2 and broodwar are very different games. Also I think artosis meant the point would only stand for the best players in the world. So if you’re a good player and the best in your mirror matchup, you were probably the player with the best game knowledge in your race since I find the metas for mirror matchups evolve the quickest, or at least is the most volatile.
Mirrors are the most important match ups. The meta or map pool occasionally shifts in favor one race. When that happens, the best mirror players of that race have an overall advantage
Hey Artosis. Just by accident watched the broodwar cartoons by carbot and had to think of your channel. I'm sure you'd like them :D
Was Light hitting his own starport addon there around 7:02? Or did he cancel it because the Barracks from Flash saw it building?
FlashLight!!! FINALLY!
I do not understand why people don't like mirrors. They're all good.
Not everyone likes how they look in the mirror
@TheSuperappelflap bloooody marrryy
As a Protoss player, PvP is my least favorite matchup, even ZvZ is better imo.
I think 10% of your uploads being mirror matches sounds great, personally
If I remember correctly, Larva really struggled in ZvZ in ASL. He had to really improve that matchup before he was able to win the big tournament.
Soulkey avoided JD in the last SSL because he was not confident he would win the ZvZ even though he is dominant right now.
To be honest, for the lack of better word, ZvZ is the most "randomized" of all matchups, where you HAVE to take risks in every build order and continuously have to make very serious decisions. You are always one error away of losing a ZvZ too.
Artosis is the King of Kings. 🤴
Most entertaining match ups:
TvZ
PvZ
PvP
ZvZ
TvT
So the best player of each race should have the best understanding of their own race. It then stands to reason that they're favored in the mirror, because they understand their race better than their opponent.
I agree with your general assessment about dominant players in mirror matchups also being dominant players in general. I really enjoy all the mirror matchups but I understand why some are not fans. I think 1/7 days is reasonable for mirror matchups 🤷
20% mirror matches. Just not PvP ones
I've been checking out this channel for the past month or two, I was starting to wonder if TvT, PvP, ZvZ were just not allowed or something. Good to see a mirror match!
EDIT: I think a mirror match once a week or every other week sounds fine. And there's definitely an argument for both sides about whether or not the best mirror match player is the best player of that race. On one hand, the better optimizer goes a long way, yet there's more room for mind games since you both have all the same tools. At the end of the day, it's a 3rd faction to get good fighting against.
Imagine of flash's name was flesh, then reimagine the video title
a man of culture i see.
I’m getting chills reading this comment.
Your dirty boy
you are a modern day hemmingway
Glad I'm not the only one
Nice to get a mirror match for a bit of a change.
Maybe the best players are the best at mirror matchups because they know their race the best. You can get good against protoss by just memorizing their timings and builds, but when you're up against your own race you know everything about your opponent and how they can approach the game. So the player who really understands the fundamentals of their own race is going to have an edge in both mirror matches and the game overall
pls dont be afraid of zooming out, i think it makes it a lot easier to watch whats going on
I'm getting chills. :)
This channel needs more Flash.
I'm all for mirror match mondays as long as they are not 4 minutes long ZvZs
A mirror match with Flash is impossible, because the GOAT is simply his own race entirely.
I’m a simple man…I see Flash -> I click.
I feel like most of the skills required to master TvT do transpose well on the TvP matchup, mostly because they both usually rely on holding the early towards a macro mech transition. TvZ is a totally different beast altogether, heavily taxing the Terran player’s mechanical skills.
I think mirror matches are awesome so I'm all for Mirror Match Mondays.
Mirror Match Monday! Do it!
I think there is a correlation between being the better player in the mirror and the better player overall. After all if you can win the mirror you are more likely better at the game. That said its not a given. Being good at the mirror basically just means "you are better at this one match up", and although there cross over with other match up, its not a for sure thing.
I say for me personally, there are better stats then "who is better in the mirror" for who is the better player.
I’ll tell you right now the king of Terran is Artosis
Regarding the mirror matchup argument I think Soulkey would either be the obvious counterpoint, or the exception to the rule (depending whether the argument is incorrect or correct)
After beating Hero for the first time in ASL 15 I think, he pretty much became the best ZvZ player though (not counting Soma cause he's in the military).
I don't mind mirror matches, just when it's nothing but tank lines it gets kind of dull for TvT.
But it's definitely one of the more difficult skill match-ups, but yeah, if they're the best in mirror match-up, it's probably safe to say they're one of the best players of that faction.
With TvT nukes are an easy option for tilting the scales.
Baby it’s cold outside
havent watched the video till the end yet but think we all know the answer
What you say about mirror matches sounds correct. Mirror matches are a skill issue. Other matchups are a strategy issue.
arty, when ForGG had a 90% winrate in TvT in 2013, NO ONE IN THE WORLD thought he was the best terran. I know that's sc2 but i think it's still worth mentioning
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I love watching TvT, care a bit less about PvP or ZvZ.
Mirror Match Monday or TvT Tuesday would be great, but tbf it doesnt really matter what you post, i'll enjoy a 35+ min macro game or a compilation of Cannon/Bunker/Ling rush games.
I would love more Mini games, he's my favorite.
GO LIGHT
Hey Arty do you think the evolution of the meta makes for more powerful strategies over time, or is it just a cycle of reactions to active play styles? In other words if an experienced active player went back 10 years to play against the ladder at that time, would they, on average, possess an edge?
Mirror Match Thursdays it is
The best players are also really good at other races because in order to succeed at beating the other races you have to understand their build orders at a similar level
The mirror matchup you know what you're race is capable of
Are there advanced stats for professional StarCraft? I'm really new to this, but the replays should have a wealth of data to create stats. For example, you could track how much hypothetical DPS someone produces vs how much they inflict? If this is already out there, that would seem a good way to compare players.
How would you calcute "hypophetical dps"?
Need to get some baseball nerds working on it, they come up with stats for everything.
Seriously, we need the StarCraft version of WAR
I love TvT 😍😍😍
Winning off race matches requires you to be a good player. Winning mirror matches requires you to be so good you can defeat yourself. And that's tough. Whoever can remain supreme in mirror matches for any race is truly the goat, because by definition every time that person levels up their game and finds new solutions, *so does everyone else of that race*. The better the mirror king is, the harder their road becomes, since they're showing off new advancements directly to the people most capable of understanding those advancements and how to deploy them also. To be a good mirror match player therefore, you can't rely on builds, because the other player will immediately have your build too. You have to outthink or out mindgame or simply brute force with superior APM, which inevitably leads you to players who are a cut above the rest. Usually in the offrace matchups too. This doesnt apply to non mirror matchups as much because the asymmetric matches *are* sometimes won simply by having a more advanced build order, or an inherent weakness of the race, which does not necessarily reflect the player skill.
TvT might be my favorite mirror match up. 🎉 Yeah.