Mechdar is usually the final evolution of the Eldar each edition. They come out strong, win a few events, get nerfed, become unsurvivable outside of protection, so wave serpents become the answer. It ends up with us paying a premium to slow down our assault troops because gods forbid that actual ramp on the back actually BE an assault ramp. Ive seen the pattern through 8 editions now.
7:50 is insane bravery not only a battleshock step stratagem? I don't think they can use it to prevent the Serpent shield's battleshock because of this
@ProxyHammer1 cool, was checking for myself too, I play nids aswell and they've alot of out of phase battleshock so I was afraid I'd been doing it wrong for a sec lol, anyways loved the video!
I have always liked Wave Serpents. Hardly meta but I like using them with my corsairs (void and scarred) which lets them scout the 7" . It helps let the pirates survive if not turn one, and gives them some extra range when they get out and start shooting/charging.
Ya you are right my local group just hasn’t used it in a while. Even so, forcing them to fallback messes with their shooting and Los depending on the positions
okay, so inspired by this thread i looked into what we could do to put 2x5 wraithblades and the avatar out front early and stat check your opponent like that. This is what i came up with: Eldrad Farseer Wayleeper Avatar 2x spiritseer Guardian defenders 2x5 dragons Rangers 2x5 wraith blades 2x falcon So this has full fate die support for the avatar and can follow up the initial push with a falcon/dragon drop t2. Ideally, you'd want 3 farseers i guess, but it was impossible to fit in so i just went with one for the avatar. Falcons/dragons can be swopped with 2x prisms as well. Could be sweet too. I guess three d-cannons would be an option too for fire support, but i feel the dragon/falcon drop offers more flexibility than both option. Not sure, tho. if one went with the prisms maybe you could live with out the 3 extra FD from eldrad and cut some points there and get a second farseer for fortune on one of the wraith units. idk. Would love som more trash units too, but this is probably not that kind of list. Any ideas?
Really cool idea! I would drop the Spiritseers though in units of 5 that are going to die anyway there is little point to including them. That should free up points for a couple of Swooping hawks.
I use my wave serpent to transport 2 units of dragons with eldrad and a detached fugan. I pull up super close to enemy units and get fugan out to bait overwatch and within 9 of of my target for sweet melta 6 then let dragons out and eldrad last. I put fugan and both exarchs into one target and 8 dragons into another. I doom the unit that dragons hit for +1 to wound and I use all my rerolls for the exarchs and fugan on the other. Whatever doesn't die I charge the serpent into with tank shock.
This set up gives hard choices. Opponent can't overwatch everything and fugan has best shot of survival. If he doesn't survive he gets back up in time for his shooting phase. If all targets die I will leave a unit and reembark and fly to my next target or safe area. The serpent acts as a shield vs charges in this way to clog the shit out of the lane. Being that there are 2 units of dragons it's tough to get into both of them if it goes south for me
Add blade storm to the mix and anything without invonrable save doesn't get a save vs dragons wounding t12 on 4s with 8 shots thats 3-4 d6 melta 3 saves on average dice 😊
Ya they are supposed to be, but often times they fall short of achieving that because units can also Overwatch In movement and with clever positioning units won’t have line of sight to Overwatch on charge
@@ProxyHammer1 just realized all our guns that battle shock say in the shooting phase so that idea is out the window. The only option is incubi battle shocking them in their flight phase. Too bad shining spears don't do that
I remember using a wave serpent to block some custodes from charging its passengers and take the objective off them and force a response. Definitely consider it now vs my falcon when I'm not sure I want to spend the points.
The Wave Serpent is the Eldar "Fun Truck". Our best means of delivering a load of shenanigans up the table. And does a good job of it. Once emptied its a nice pain in the backside for an opponent that's already dealing with its contents :)
My Man! 3rd ed. Tau player coming back and chose the elves; just bought two WS for my Boarding Patrol (Banshees and Corsairs for army theme/3rd ed. PTSD reasons). I was steeling myself to waste a dozen games figuring them out...but here you've done the hard think for me! Thank you! Though it seems I may not have the element of surprise on my side anymore... 😅
Dude nice I love that! Use the Waveserpents on the corsairs and reserve the banshees with rapid ingress! Great combo honestly! In third-fourth edition I had a small Tau army! I never hit a single shot with my hammerhead and back then the ion cannon was the more reliable choice. Never hit with a single marker light either when it mattered or passed a single target priority check…the Tau had their issues haha 😂
@@ProxyHammer1 No doubt! Target Priority tests were almost singlehandedly why I didn't play a single game after 3rd. Being a singularly shooting-oriented army that can't choose what to shoot at sounded entirely too miserable. 🫠
Great content as always. proxy, I need your help. Ive been running the staple power stuff up until recently and honestly, I am welcoming the shift away from that. I have now build something new and very MSU now around these three blocks: 2 falcons/dragons, avatar/fortune and 3 scoring units consisting of 1hawks/2spiders. The list looks silly on paper, seriously. But it's just so strong once on the table. It can just screen the entire board and control exactly where the opponent can operate. wayleaper/gem farseer/messenger Eldrad Avatar 2x rangers guardian defenders 5 hawks 2x5 spiders 2x5 dragons 2x5 reapers warwalker 2x falcon 3x shroudrunners the 2x5 dark reapers was something I started experiencing with back when watching that video you made on them. I tinkered around with it but never thought id actually end up keeping them in. But They are seriously so good. They chip away on indirect, they are an amazing screen unit with the big bases and they can actually do damage to stuff. especially with the lethal hits from the runners. Also, your opponent just hates to shoot at them when the area is saturated with falcons, spiders, dragons or war walkers. Or the avatar. In three games I haven't lost one dark reaper. they mop up so many units in the late game and getting them up for plunging fire is not as hard as I expected on the table. ive played three games with the list now, and I cant believe it wins. But it does. It's amazingly versatile and can shift focus very easily. You start both falcons/dragons, spiders, hawks in deepstrike most games, but you have the option to start one or both on table if you need to. You can use them to protect the farseer from indirect if you have to. The turn 2 strike can criple a lot of armies, and as you know the avatar is just a beast with sixes for overwatch and allround killing in the centre. He eats up a lot of fate deice which is why guardians/eldrad. you need to shoot, overwatch, make saves and for advancing t1 most times. so it adds up. he is always worth it, though. last night vs vanguard detachment marines he killed the remaining 3 aggressors in a squad, the biologus, marneus and the vitrix guard. next turn he then one shotted a landraider and melee killed the company heroes inside and stormed the hostile stronghold : / it felt very crazy. 2x rangers and the 9 scouting war walker and shroud runners are very good control elements for move blocking. Sometimes you need the 2 bright lances on the ww and will keep him back, though. With all the small arms fire and the indirect in the list, that lethal hits ability on the shroud runners helps threaten a lot of targets. id love to squeeze in a second unit actually, but its hard to find the points. I always thing one ranger unit is enough, but then when I play with 2 its just amazing. they just come in handy in so many situations. you can stop many armies by just move blocking t1 and then t2 the spiders and dragons come down. if the opponent plays super cagey to avoid the t2 strike, you spread out and screen his deep strike units plus move block him to just score points and try to play that game while your balanced firepower weaken his units. This is honestly the most fun Eldar have been to me in tenth. Have you tried building something along these lines too? Also, keep the sweet content coming. Thanks for the effort, man. ::Edit:: Totally forgot my initial question: do you think I should try to fit in a wave serpent for the reapers vs heavy indirect lists or is it just not needed? They never get shot at as it is. still, I feel a serpent could be good in this. Maybe drop the WW and.. fates msn? argh, that last one hurts. Hate to leave the farseer completely naked.
Hey man thats awesome! I've run something pretty similar actually but with storm guardians instead of defenders and fuegan instead of the war walker, although the war walker is super good as well
I love the Serpent of Fury tactic, but what is everyone's experience with the Wave Serpent being able to block line of sight to the unit it dumps out? Have your opponents been like "yeah, I cant see them" or are they more like "I'd be able to see their feet under that hover tank, so I can target them" ??
Everything blocks line of sight if the model physically can't be seen. That's why people hide models behind Rhinos and Land Raiders. So yeah, that's why I was always curious if it could be done with a Wave Serpent. @@jpshaffer1989
Also with those big Imp Guard tanks, I think the datasheet says it provides cover to units, which is an even bigger bonus to it already blocking los with it's huge body! @@jpshaffer1989
You should analyze the Mech-Tau list that did good in the tournament this week-end and try to get some insights for Mech-Aeldari. I think we can do pretty weird lists with loads of tanks.
Ya I watched those games! I think we can run something even better with falcons and serpents I’m trying out a mechdar list this weekend tweaked accordingly
I like Corsairs in serpents but believe it or not Kabalite Warrriors in Ynnari are also good because they grant sticky objectives to the serpent. If playing pure eldar Wraithblades might be a good option as well @@yannroshdy
Considering the Sagitaur, a bugbear unit in this meta, is 115, and the wave serpent is faster, tougher, and has higher transport capacity... AND its twin bright lance is better than both of the sag anti-large profiles... who's complaining? the only thing this "loses" to the sag is scout move/ its a larger model!
Fly out to NML objectives, then both units wraithblades disembark and push forward in next turn, serpents left to keep the objective and fire bright lances! While they are distracting enemy firepower and resources, the rest of our units taking tactical positions and fire at will 💪💪💪
@@byrongotcha I hear that but personally I’d much prefer for 20 points across two platforms an extra 14 wounds and 2D3 mortals not to mention the size of the hull for move blocking. For 8% points cost increase you get 116% more wounds I don’t believe one extra pip on the invun save and -1 to wound vs shooting is commensurate
@sirath35 you make good points. But you gotta also realize that the walker's smaller profile makes it easier to keep protected and hidden in order to step out and blast something to pieces. A 2nd bright lance is also worth a decent amount of points. They both have value and have their roles. Both good options.
![โฮ่ง! (SUGOI) - LYKN [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nFp4zjAARFs/mqdefault.jpg)
Correction *** Your opponent cannot use Insane Bravery as it requires you to be in the command phase 😉
Mechdar is usually the final evolution of the Eldar each edition. They come out strong, win a few events, get nerfed, become unsurvivable outside of protection, so wave serpents become the answer.
It ends up with us paying a premium to slow down our assault troops because gods forbid that actual ramp on the back actually BE an assault ramp.
Ive seen the pattern through 8 editions now.
Seriously though... This guy is pretty spot on. Mechdar ftw
Everything eventually becomes a crab 🦀
Absolutely 🦀
These videos are great. You should provide some examples of lists which feature said unit, Wave Serpents in this case. Excellent work!
Thank you so much! I plan on doing a mechdar inspired list soon with video analysis as well!
7:50 is insane bravery not only a battleshock step stratagem? I don't think they can use it to prevent the Serpent shield's battleshock because of this
good catch!
You are correct I put a pinned comment so people know! I had a brain melt there!
😎
@ProxyHammer1 cool, was checking for myself too, I play nids aswell and they've alot of out of phase battleshock so I was afraid I'd been doing it wrong for a sec lol, anyways loved the video!
I have always liked Wave Serpents. Hardly meta but I like using them with my corsairs (void and scarred) which lets them scout the 7" . It helps let the pirates survive if not turn one, and gives them some extra range when they get out and start shooting/charging.
Dude I absolutely agree I used them with great success at the beginning of the edition in serpents as well!
I am pretty sure that the Space marine Gladius detachment (the standard one) is still really really popular.
Ya you are right my local group just hasn’t used it in a while. Even so, forcing them to fallback messes with their shooting and Los depending on the positions
okay, so inspired by this thread i looked into what we could do to put 2x5 wraithblades and the avatar out front early and stat check your opponent like that.
This is what i came up with:
Eldrad
Farseer
Wayleeper
Avatar
2x spiritseer
Guardian defenders
2x5 dragons
Rangers
2x5 wraith blades
2x falcon
So this has full fate die support for the avatar and can follow up the initial push with a falcon/dragon drop t2. Ideally, you'd want 3 farseers i guess, but it was impossible to fit in so i just went with one for the avatar. Falcons/dragons can be swopped with 2x prisms as well. Could be sweet too. I guess three d-cannons would be an option too for fire support, but i feel the dragon/falcon drop offers more flexibility than both option. Not sure, tho. if one went with the prisms maybe you could live with out the 3 extra FD from eldrad and cut some points there and get a second farseer for fortune on one of the wraith units. idk.
Would love som more trash units too, but this is probably not that kind of list.
Any ideas?
Really cool idea! I would drop the Spiritseers though in units of 5 that are going to die anyway there is little point to including them. That should free up points for a couple of Swooping hawks.
@@ProxyHammer1 but are WBs even worth it without a seer? Do five mans even make sense?
personally i think so because your opponent still has to chew through 15 T7 wounds to wipe them. @@TobiasBukkehave
The recent tank shock buff takes it from 6 dice to 9 dice, a pretty serious buff for wave serpents.
Agreed! Trying to fit more serpents in my lists!
I use my wave serpent to transport 2 units of dragons with eldrad and a detached fugan. I pull up super close to enemy units and get fugan out to bait overwatch and within 9 of of my target for sweet melta 6 then let dragons out and eldrad last. I put fugan and both exarchs into one target and 8 dragons into another. I doom the unit that dragons hit for +1 to wound and I use all my rerolls for the exarchs and fugan on the other. Whatever doesn't die I charge the serpent into with tank shock.
This set up gives hard choices. Opponent can't overwatch everything and fugan has best shot of survival. If he doesn't survive he gets back up in time for his shooting phase. If all targets die I will leave a unit and reembark and fly to my next target or safe area. The serpent acts as a shield vs charges in this way to clog the shit out of the lane. Being that there are 2 units of dragons it's tough to get into both of them if it goes south for me
Add blade storm to the mix and anything without invonrable save doesn't get a save vs dragons wounding t12 on 4s with 8 shots thats 3-4 d6 melta 3 saves on average dice
😊
Dude that’s super tasty! I love that dude!
@@ProxyHammer1 dragons have become my player groups boogie men
Now I have to try this...👏
I think the battle shock test from shooting attacks are supposed to be for overwatch.
Ya they are supposed to be, but often times they fall short of achieving that because units can also Overwatch In movement and with clever positioning units won’t have line of sight to Overwatch on charge
@@ProxyHammer1 just realized all our guns that battle shock say in the shooting phase so that idea is out the window. The only option is incubi battle shocking them in their flight phase. Too bad shining spears don't do that
I remember using a wave serpent to block some custodes from charging its passengers and take the objective off them and force a response. Definitely consider it now vs my falcon when I'm not sure I want to spend the points.
Dude that’s awesome I love blocking my opponent like that it feels so good!
I feel validated by the should out about a corsair army consisting of voidreavers, wave serpents and falcons 😂
The Wave Serpent is the Eldar "Fun Truck". Our best means of delivering a load of shenanigans up the table. And does a good job of it. Once emptied its a nice pain in the backside for an opponent that's already dealing with its contents :)
Couldn’t agree more my friend it’s an absolute pleasure to use!
Use my wave serpent atm to dump a 5 man unit of wraithguard and a spirit seer into the midfield.
My Man! 3rd ed. Tau player coming back and chose the elves; just bought two WS for my Boarding Patrol (Banshees and Corsairs for army theme/3rd ed. PTSD reasons). I was steeling myself to waste a dozen games figuring them out...but here you've done the hard think for me! Thank you! Though it seems I may not have the element of surprise on my side anymore... 😅
Dude nice I love that! Use the Waveserpents on the corsairs and reserve the banshees with rapid ingress! Great combo honestly!
In third-fourth edition I had a small Tau army! I never hit a single shot with my hammerhead and back then the ion cannon was the more reliable choice. Never hit with a single marker light either when it mattered or passed a single target priority check…the Tau had their issues haha 😂
@@ProxyHammer1 No doubt! Target Priority tests were almost singlehandedly why I didn't play a single game after 3rd. Being a singularly shooting-oriented army that can't choose what to shoot at sounded entirely too miserable. 🫠
Ya dude it sucked :(@@TheDragonTuba
Great content as always.
proxy, I need your help. Ive been running the staple power stuff up until recently and honestly, I am welcoming the shift away from that.
I have now build something new and very MSU now around these three blocks: 2 falcons/dragons, avatar/fortune and 3 scoring units consisting of 1hawks/2spiders.
The list looks silly on paper, seriously. But it's just so strong once on the table. It can just screen the entire board and control exactly where the opponent can operate.
wayleaper/gem
farseer/messenger
Eldrad
Avatar
2x rangers
guardian defenders
5 hawks
2x5 spiders
2x5 dragons
2x5 reapers
warwalker
2x falcon
3x shroudrunners
the 2x5 dark reapers was something I started experiencing with back when watching that video you made on them. I tinkered around with it but never thought id actually end up keeping them in. But They are seriously so good. They chip away on indirect, they are an amazing screen unit with the big bases and they can actually do damage to stuff. especially with the lethal hits from the runners. Also, your opponent just hates to shoot at them when the area is saturated with falcons, spiders, dragons or war walkers. Or the avatar. In three games I haven't lost one dark reaper. they mop up so many units in the late game and getting them up for plunging fire is not as hard as I expected on the table.
ive played three games with the list now, and I cant believe it wins. But it does. It's amazingly versatile and can shift focus very easily. You start both falcons/dragons, spiders, hawks in deepstrike most games, but you have the option to start one or both on table if you need to. You can use them to protect the farseer from indirect if you have to.
The turn 2 strike can criple a lot of armies, and as you know the avatar is just a beast with sixes for overwatch and allround killing in the centre. He eats up a lot of fate deice which is why guardians/eldrad. you need to shoot, overwatch, make saves and for advancing t1 most times. so it adds up. he is always worth it, though. last night vs vanguard detachment marines he killed the remaining 3 aggressors in a squad, the biologus, marneus and the vitrix guard. next turn he then one shotted a landraider and melee killed the company heroes inside and stormed the hostile stronghold : / it felt very crazy.
2x rangers and the 9 scouting war walker and shroud runners are very good control elements for move blocking. Sometimes you need the 2 bright lances on the ww and will keep him back, though. With all the small arms fire and the indirect in the list, that lethal hits ability on the shroud runners helps threaten a lot of targets. id love to squeeze in a second unit actually, but its hard to find the points. I always thing one ranger unit is enough, but then when I play with 2 its just amazing. they just come in handy in so many situations.
you can stop many armies by just move blocking t1 and then t2 the spiders and dragons come down. if the opponent plays super cagey to avoid the t2 strike, you spread out and screen his deep strike units plus move block him to just score points and try to play that game while your balanced firepower weaken his units.
This is honestly the most fun Eldar have been to me in tenth.
Have you tried building something along these lines too?
Also, keep the sweet content coming. Thanks for the effort, man.
::Edit:: Totally forgot my initial question: do you think I should try to fit in a wave serpent for the reapers vs heavy indirect lists or is it just not needed? They never get shot at as it is. still, I feel a serpent could be good in this. Maybe drop the WW and.. fates msn? argh, that last one hurts. Hate to leave the farseer completely naked.
Hey man thats awesome! I've run something pretty similar actually but with storm guardians instead of defenders and fuegan instead of the war walker, although the war walker is super good as well
Cool. One more thing: donyou Think just one reaper Unit would still be worth it or would you normally run 2x5 to justify Them?
oh and also i dont think the serpent is strictly needed but could be useful in an indirect meta
one reaper works great too as a harassment unit! easy to fit in a list too!@@TobiasBukkehave
Twin bright Lance is definitely the go to choice IMO.
Eldar have so many unit options to smoke infantry. But fewer "hardpoints" for Lance's.
Ya I think the Lance is the normal go to but idk I usually have so much hard target elimination already and the serpents smoke MEQ.
Should do a rate my list video or viewer submission list with strategy and you play it with feedback
That’s a great idea I’ll think on that!!
I love the Serpent of Fury tactic, but what is everyone's experience with the Wave Serpent being able to block line of sight to the unit it dumps out? Have your opponents been like "yeah, I cant see them" or are they more like "I'd be able to see their feet under that hover tank, so I can target them" ??
They are seen
Vehicles don't block Los unless it's the imp guard titanic tank that says so in its datasheet
Everything blocks line of sight if the model physically can't be seen. That's why people hide models behind Rhinos and Land Raiders. So yeah, that's why I was always curious if it could be done with a Wave Serpent. @@jpshaffer1989
Also with those big Imp Guard tanks, I think the datasheet says it provides cover to units, which is an even bigger bonus to it already blocking los with it's huge body! @@jpshaffer1989
Skimmers can be seen under both ways and also the wave serpents weird shape allows units to see past regardless
You should analyze the Mech-Tau list that did good in the tournament this week-end and try to get some insights for Mech-Aeldari. I think we can do pretty weird lists with loads of tanks.
Ya I watched those games! I think we can run something even better with falcons and serpents I’m trying out a mechdar list this weekend tweaked accordingly
@@ProxyHammer1 I've been wondering what to put in serpents.
I like Corsairs in serpents but believe it or not Kabalite Warrriors in Ynnari are also good because they grant sticky objectives to the serpent. If playing pure eldar Wraithblades might be a good option as well @@yannroshdy
Considering the Sagitaur, a bugbear unit in this meta, is 115, and the wave serpent is faster, tougher, and has higher transport capacity... AND its twin bright lance is better than both of the sag anti-large profiles... who's complaining? the only thing this "loses" to the sag is scout move/ its a larger model!
Totally agree! And if you transport corsairs you gain scout!
Could a Corsair wave serpent core still work? I wanna make an army that has voidscarred in wave serpents with wraith and biker support
It absolutely could work! I prefer the voidreavers for the rerolls but both are great in serpents!
“ipso facto” 😂
Lol 😂 I love the phrase!
Let's put 2 units of 5 wraithblades with spiritseer in 2 serpents 👍 then Avatar takes the middle 🤣🤣🤣
We can do it!! 🙏😂
Honestly, why not?
Fly out to NML objectives, then both units wraithblades disembark and push forward in next turn, serpents left to keep the objective and fire bright lances! While they are distracting enemy firepower and resources, the rest of our units taking tactical positions and fire at will 💪💪💪
@@uutinenfin Love that! Think that could be very strong!
You forgot about Aeldari missile launcher :/
I talked about it didn’t I? Very beginning of the weapons
Why people go for war walkers when for 10 more points you get +2 toughness, +7 wounds, transport capacity and serpent shield….
The warwalker can take 2 bright lances, it has a scout move, the -1 to wound makes it equally tough, and it has a 4+ invul instead of 5+
@@byrongotcha I hear that but personally I’d much prefer for 20 points across two platforms an extra 14 wounds and 2D3 mortals not to mention the size of the hull for move blocking.
For 8% points cost increase you get 116% more wounds
I don’t believe one extra pip on the invun save and -1 to wound vs shooting is commensurate
@sirath35 you make good points. But you gotta also realize that the walker's smaller profile makes it easier to keep protected and hidden in order to step out and blast something to pieces.
A 2nd bright lance is also worth a decent amount of points.
They both have value and have their roles. Both good options.
I mean I think it’s just awesome! A great bargain!
War Walker has more large damage output for sure but I feel durability wise it’s almost the same
The only thing i have been running really...
Nice dude it’s really cool!
@@ProxyHammer1 Ya.... tired of meta chase even at the competitive level if I lose.. I lose...
I like that way of thinking it's what i live by!@@Freak69Show