My issue is with anyone attempting to gain an unfair advantage leveraging biological advantages that violate fairness in female (biological) athletics. Such contestants are unethical and attempting to cheat a system which has always prohibited biological males and for numerous good reasons: right of privacy in private spaces, safety, level playing field based on biological gender, and protection of biological females to compete in sports. This is unethical behavior which is basic common sense. If adults want to surgically mutilate their sex organs and consume toxic hormones that is up to them and health institutions that apparently are okay it.
Exactly. People are free to make dumb decisions if they want to, providing it is not infringing over the rights and freedoms of others. Otherwise, you need to decide what is more important.
YUP. This dude is a CHEATER with mental health issues and is raging against all of us. He needs to be banned per the PDGA grounds of UNsportsMANshiplike conduct!
Hit them for what? They had to give up because they were running out of money to fight lawsuits. Unless you were personally donating money specifically to fight these lawsuits, I'm not sure why you're upsat at PDGA for throwing in the towel.
Yep. HE is committing unsportsmanshiplike conduct, and is punishable by DISMISSAL from the PDGA. Time for a precedent to be set by the COWARDS who tried to appease HIM (the PDGA). SET THE PRECEDENT! BAN HIM FOR A SEASON! LET HIM PLAY ME IN AM1!
RIP Fpo. 😢 Very Disappointed in the Pdga and the Dgpt. This is one step in the wrong direction for womens sports. Basically an invite for anyone to sue because they feel the rules dont apply to them and they are special. Its a very sad day for womens disc golf and a slap in the face for true women competing in womens sports. Might as well let pros play am events . Or 17 yr old boys play against 13 yr old girls.
So...one guy with some lawsuits was able to force the governing body of an entire sport to change policy just for them? And this took place after the previous year when a PDGA player survey overwhelmingly opposed it? This is why we can't have nice things America...
The problem is that as disc golf is a developing sport, they still don’t have enough resources to fight a lawsuit. There are a lot of different organizations in favor of the lgbtq+ community that offer pro bono help, I bet the PDGA didn’t want to spend the few funds that they have against fighting someone, it’s cheaper to let them play, unfair but cheaper at the end.
nah, just keep sending a "cease and desist" letter and ignore the dudes. There are plenty of ways to have a conversation, but unsportsmanlike is not the way... Drop the player from being sponsored by the PDGA to play in their little club/ group/ team. Unsportsmanlike conduct applies to females too.
There's a guy out there that has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to become a reptile. I'm sure you've at least seen a picture of him. Is he a reptile? Is there any amount of money or any use of technology that could make him a reptile? There's your answer. If you think that the only difference between men and women are a little surgery and some drugs, you're missing out on %99.9 percent of the wonderful things that make them different. You can't be something you're not just because you want it really, really badly. If you want to indentify as something in everyday life, no worries. But when it comes to gender protected areas, you don't get to play, period, ever. You are what you are, birth to death. You don't like it, talk to your creator.
Gender dysphoria is a concept that has been well researched. You distort the concept with your dishonest comparison. In this debate, if you truly want the trans/woman issue to be resolved in a positive way (no post-puberty transitioned trans players in the FPO) you have to get rid of the general transphobia and focus on the matter at hand.
I don't mind this person standing up for what they believe in, but I've never met a single person that thinks biological men should compete with woman. Having 2 daughters I also don't feel bad for women in sports right now as it is also their opportunity to stand up for what they think is right as well, one way or the other. All that being said, I would love to hear what someone like Natalie has to say about why women's sports exist in the first place? Why are sports and the Olympics split up not by race, age, size or anything other than gender? I believe we all know the answer, but I'd love to hear this person's thoughts.
Bad day for FPO: women having to compete against natal males like Ryan is unfair. I hope this lamentable decision is reversed. Natal males like Ryan should compete in MPO.
It depends a lot on hormone saturation, not just them way private parts present themselves. Someone who has been on HRT for a number of years will have their body fat redistributed as well as lose upper body muscle density and have more toward the hips, as might be expected in Male-To-Female Transition. Personally, I’ll be glad when biotechnology catches up to the point to where complete physical sex change is possible, down to the chromosomes.
DNA is the biggest factor that makes the genders what they are; not hormones. It's DNA that makes the skeletal structure of a male different than a female's (to support greater strength). DNA also is the largest factor in muscle development and growth rate; also for the purpose of greater strength. Hormones do play a major role in making the genders what they are, but don't play the biggest role; that belongs to DNA. And every cell of the body has DNA. It's DNA and hormones that together make the gender of a person. Gender is "hardwired" into us. It's a fact that the skeletal and muscle structure of a male cannot be fully suppressed to a true female equivalent by any hormone therapy.
@@playdiscgolf1546women have competed in MPO, in particular in smaller areas where there aren't many women competitors, but the point is, they can if they want, because it's open to anyone. There is only ONE protected division (including the various levels), and it's female. Female divisions are protected specifically because of the advantages males have.
Why would they? MPO is MIXED, not Male. It is open to anyone, male or female. Only the female is a protected division, because of the obvious and undeniable advantages of male physique and biology.
kind of sad to see how many people are against the right of states to determine their legislation for themselves. you can't just break the law because you disagree with it
Probably had to stop practicing and actually working a normal job but idk. He's always sucked but just had good tournaments. He's not the kind to tank on purpose.
@@Discsforbaskets dude you're a fuckin weirdo lol im sorry but I just looked at your profile and it's just videos of your daughter, your profile picture is your daughter and your commenting hateful bigoted shit everywhere with her face attached to it. I seriously hope that your daughter grows up to hate you and disowns you. To be honest in this world with the new generations they all think a lot clearer and use compassion a lot more than the halfwits of your generation Good luck with all that freak lmao The thing you don't realize is that there's a balance to the world, it will come back around to you. You're fucked
All this and the merits were never touched - couple TRO's was all it took. Disc golf is still quite niche'. Surprised the PDGA does not have a pro-bono law firm. Law's expensive as heck, especially litigation, unless it's free like NR had in the two blue states, straight up volunteers who like the cause and/or want publicity.
I don't expect people to miss me. I don't expect anything from anyone and I especially don't expect people to cater to my mental illness like these fruitcake fairies are. @@mrpoepoe
Correct. PDGA may crumble because they failed to uphold the player unsportsmanlike conduct guide that they have already set. He needs to be banned for a season.
Tbh this needed to happen. This has been happening more frequently and it seems like the majority public opinion is almost always that biological men shouldn’t compete in women’s sports. Obviously there are rare situations where people legitimately fall between being a biological man or woman but that’s another conversation and something that should probably be looked at case by case anyway. I’ve always thought allowing women or those who want to call themselves women into some Men’s sports seemed like a sensible answer that could satisfy everyone (I’m a dumb*** though don’t listen to me.) Hopefully this just goes away and we can continue to enjoy all the sports we love staying fair and competitive indefinitely.
I get ur point totally and do agree, but just to add there is no in between there is either a born female with some "features " due to excessive hormones in utero or born male with some female like features etc due to hormones in utero. Etc so still one sex or another but some differences and yes need to be case by case, but not in between they are still either one sex or the other.
Doctors should inform men who wants to transform into women that competing against woman in an elite level will not be an option. All other stuff is allowed except maby giving birth to children.
@susiepittman601 eewww what exactly does that mean? If this person thinks differently than you it's unacceptable. The way they might think about your personal position on the subject. If the Harvard president is forced to resign for not "outlawing" speech pro Palestinian....that's fine too. Wow all of the sudden they come out with plagiarism about her....don't find that odd because free speech is fundamental to any society, regardless of who is "wrong or right" that's fine also. If someone had you "shaking" in your boots", would you just change your stance on the topic....I hope not. By the way it is ridiculous at this point for people to call Natalie dude/him, regardless I think people are allowed to speak their mind, just as you and I are....we can disagree and debate any subject, and not just censor or degrade views from the opposite side....because that actually makes people hypocritical and iicckk the same.
@susiepittman601 I could be wrong, there is frustration from both sides, but I would engage in discussions with people who are willing to listen. Even if they disagree, are more than willing to discuss the topic and try their best to be reasonable in their different views. Look up Renae Richard's, who transitioned in her late 30s and started playing against females in the 70s I think. Then look at her comments after she retired, she wasn't even competitive on the men's circuit, but ended up I think in the top 20 in the women's and was almost beating Chris evert, women's no 1. She had changed her mind about fairness. Martina narvratilova came out against this as a gay woman and got roasted unfairly for her stance. I don't agree with a lot of the nonsensical comments, but I ignore them, and try to engage with people who actually want to have an actual conversation regardless of point of view. I will also point out I am 100% free speech regardless of what is said whether I agree or disagree....that will never change.
@justsomerando8206 lol you seem incredibly intelligent, how bout a incredibly well thought comeback....you seem ridiculously salty too... .. with an incredibly closed mind to diversity in thought.
Unfortunately narcissistic apg will insist on inflicting their agp fetish on everyone and anyone, and sadly that often means women, and women don't need to sue womens sports as they are already women, only a narcissistic man would do that. Women wouldn't want their already low funded sports to be paid out to men who want to pretend dress up. These agps are sick but also narcissistic.
Friendly reminder that it's completely possible to both be against Natalie competing in the FPO division and respect *her* identity. It comes at no personal cost to you whatsoever. I imagine it'll take years of establishing a framework before we see trans women competing at the top levels of sports regularly.
I show people respect when they earn it, not just for being human or because of how they identify. He deserves no respect after stealing thousands of dollars and tournament prestige and placings from women.
Can't respect a man saying he is a woman and competing against actual women. Do you think any actual dude would consider that dude a girl and date him. Nope that would be gay lol
@@Discsforbaskets I mean, there is such a thing as common decency. It does you no harm whatsoever to comply with the smallest possible gesture ever, which is to simply call her *her*. I'm not perfectly read into everything about the situation, but to say that Natalie has stolen money is just patently absurd. She's been allowed to play in a multitude of FPO tournaments. It's not as if she snuck in during the middle of the night with a burglar outfit and robbed the PDGA blind. Now, as to whether it is fair or not for Natalie to enter these tournaments is the crux of the matter, is it not? As such it brings a lot of vitriol from people who think it's not. There's also the casual bigotry that we're still dragging around thousands of years into our civilisation. It's also naturally heightened by FPO players having their livelihood at stake when they come out to play events - so it's fair that there's frustration and even anger from them if they do feel that it is unfair tat Natalie is competing in the same division. I think it's fair to assume you're against her participating, yes? That's completely fair. I have to admit that I probably lean that way as well - for now. In a lot of physical sports, there are clear differences between traditional genders. Men are generally built better for some things and women are better at others. I don't think that means that we should bar trans individuals from participating forever, but as I mentioned in my first comment, I think it will take there being a framework written for such things. How that framework would look like, I have no idea, since I have no insight into the medical and psychological realities of being trans and trying to fit into one's "new" skin. I'll be optimistic and hope for something like that within the next decade. However there are a lot of possible complications that could make that process take a lot longer. (Just saw the new video that Natalie will be eligible for FPO events going forward) All of which is to say that I don't know what the best solution is. Just that it's always better to try to treat one another with more kindness and openness than what I'm reading from a decent amount of these comments.
I think that really speaks to more of what kind of a person you are. With all the shit going on in the world today actively wishing someone "the worst" is energy that definitely could have been spent more wisely.
@hearttransplant And I don't care one bit. Ryan knows he is taking opportunities, wins and earnings away from real woman, but he doesn't give a shit because he's a narcissistic asshole. If he actually cared about women in the slightest, he wouldn't compete in their division. Id bet money he's a misogynist.
He isn't good enough, did you miss when he gave his reason for playing FPO, when he said he can't compete against male competitors at an elite level? He wants the theme in the glory, he just doesn't have the skill so rather than get better, he took the zero which is pretend to be a woman.
@@jamesbenton4123 you compete in MA40 to avoid people with higher testosterone. Natalie has the same privilege. Now should there be a 3rd division is a conversation we can have. Exclusion is never an option.
Instead of wasting money on Lawyers, I wish Natalie had given the money to starving kids around the world, or to those in war zones, to teach them how to be more inclusive.
Is it not obvious that Mr Ryan cares about no one other than himself? He specifically stated he would burn the entire thing to the ground if he didn't get his way.
@@ViJt-oq5nq Or more realistically, the lawyers grifted a nice settlement for a new car and golf clubs. Lawyers only work for themselves and what $$$ they can steal from their victims, I mean clients.
Glad to hear this is all over and I hope all parties are happy with the settlement. I feel having some United events are the way to go to promote inclusivity within disc golf.
No they are not happy, the PDGA dropped it because for the first time in almost forever they lost money because of the lawsuits and they could not afford to continue. Entire countries have left the PDGA as a result of this, many women (and men) are not renewing their memberships in protest of this terrible decision, and the WWDGO (worldwide disc golf league) has been formed which defends and protects women in sports. You can look up Save Women's Disc Golf for info, which has been great in standing up for and supporting the brave women who are fighting this injustice, as well as financially supporting the female athletes who have been denied and robbed of money and opportunity because of men stealing their places.
The MPO division is an open division to all. The PDGA has always been inclusive, this guy just wants to bully the FPO division for his own self interests. Pathetic.
This is just starting. He now has precedent set that he can play as IF he is a woman. Sexual Philosophy should not govern sports science. He needs to be banned for a year per PDGA unsportsmanlike conduct guidelines (already written).
I just hope they don't settle on stopping discrimination only in Cali and Minnesota exclusively. I wouldn't be satisfied until they stop being assholes everywhere.
By "asshole" I can only assume you must mean the guy who insists on playing in female-only protected divisions and was threatening to burn down everything if he doesn't get his way?
By "asshole" one can only assume you mean an agp infiltrates womens sports, files lawsuit, and causes them to go broke....thats men for ya, and more specifically agp me for ya! And more speficiallu assholes. Women don't need to sue womens sports as they are women. Ryan did as he is not a woman but wants to be one, is jealous as he will never be one and then attacks everything for women play.
My issue is with anyone attempting to gain an unfair advantage leveraging biological advantages that violate fairness in female (biological) athletics. Such contestants are unethical and attempting to cheat a system which has always prohibited biological males and for numerous good reasons: right of privacy in private spaces, safety, level playing field based on biological gender, and protection of biological females to compete in sports. This is unethical behavior which is basic common sense. If adults want to surgically mutilate their sex organs and consume toxic hormones that is up to them and health institutions that apparently are okay it.
Exactly. People are free to make dumb decisions if they want to, providing it is not infringing over the rights and freedoms of others. Otherwise, you need to decide what is more important.
YUP. This dude is a CHEATER with mental health issues and is raging against all of us. He needs to be banned per the PDGA grounds of UNsportsMANshiplike conduct!
hit the pdga where it hurts...QUIT giving them money for a "membership"..what do you get for $75 a year? a crappy mag and...nothing!
Hit them for what? They had to give up because they were running out of money to fight lawsuits. Unless you were personally donating money specifically to fight these lawsuits, I'm not sure why you're upsat at PDGA for throwing in the towel.
I’m sure the insanity in the FPO will continue. It’s a joke.
Yep. HE is committing unsportsmanshiplike conduct, and is punishable by DISMISSAL from the PDGA. Time for a precedent to be set by the COWARDS who tried to appease HIM (the PDGA).
SET THE PRECEDENT! BAN HIM FOR A SEASON! LET HIM PLAY ME IN AM1!
RIP Fpo. 😢 Very Disappointed in the Pdga and the Dgpt. This is one step in the wrong direction for womens sports. Basically an invite for anyone to sue because they feel the rules dont apply to them and they are special. Its a very sad day for womens disc golf and a slap in the face for true women competing in womens sports. Might as well let pros play am events . Or 17 yr old boys play against 13 yr old girls.
Natalie's form is hard to watch.
No wonder he can't compete with the other men
Morally bankrupt, bad form yeah
Looks a lot like many MA1 players I’ve carded with…..
His firm is hard to watch too. Free publicity for the people trying to support his claims.
So...one guy with some lawsuits was able to force the governing body of an entire sport to change policy just for them? And this took place after the previous year when a PDGA player survey overwhelmingly opposed it?
This is why we can't have nice things America...
This is why we, the people, get vocal about it.
Also, he needs to be banned for unsportsmanlike conduct.
The problem is that as disc golf is a developing sport, they still don’t have enough resources to fight a lawsuit. There are a lot of different organizations in favor of the lgbtq+ community that offer pro bono help, I bet the PDGA didn’t want to spend the few funds that they have against fighting someone, it’s cheaper to let them play, unfair but cheaper at the end.
nah, just keep sending a "cease and desist" letter and ignore the dudes. There are plenty of ways to have a conversation, but unsportsmanlike is not the way... Drop the player from being sponsored by the PDGA to play in their little club/ group/ team.
Unsportsmanlike conduct applies to females too.
Who wants to be the Riley Gaines of disc golf?
Paige Peirce?
@@postscript3150 Nikko Locastro doing it
There's a guy out there that has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to become a reptile. I'm sure you've at least seen a picture of him. Is he a reptile? Is there any amount of money or any use of technology that could make him a reptile?
There's your answer.
If you think that the only difference between men and women are a little surgery and some drugs, you're missing out on %99.9 percent of the wonderful things that make them different.
You can't be something you're not just because you want it really, really badly.
If you want to indentify as something in everyday life, no worries. But when it comes to gender protected areas, you don't get to play, period, ever. You are what you are, birth to death. You don't like it, talk to your creator.
Gender dysphoria is a concept that has been well researched. You distort the concept with your dishonest comparison.
In this debate, if you truly want the trans/woman issue to be resolved in a positive way (no post-puberty transitioned trans players in the FPO) you have to get rid of the general transphobia and focus on the matter at hand.
I don't mind this person standing up for what they believe in, but I've never met a single person that thinks biological men should compete with woman.
Having 2 daughters I also don't feel bad for women in sports right now as it is also their opportunity to stand up for what they think is right as well, one way or the other.
All that being said, I would love to hear what someone like Natalie has to say about why women's sports exist in the first place? Why are sports and the Olympics split up not by race, age, size or anything other than gender?
I believe we all know the answer, but I'd love to hear this person's thoughts.
LadyBaller 🍒
Bad day for FPO: women having to compete against natal males like Ryan is unfair. I hope this lamentable decision is reversed. Natal males like Ryan should compete in MPO.
It depends a lot on hormone saturation, not just them way private parts present themselves. Someone who has been on HRT for a number of years will have their body fat redistributed as well as lose upper body muscle density and have more toward the hips, as might be expected in Male-To-Female Transition.
Personally, I’ll be glad when biotechnology catches up to the point to where complete physical sex change is possible, down to the chromosomes.
@@TheFirefishe I don't care if they grow whole new appendages, they are not women. This is not an engineering problem, even in concept or principle.
DNA is the biggest factor that makes the genders what they are; not hormones. It's DNA that makes the skeletal structure of a male different than a female's (to support greater strength). DNA also is the largest factor in muscle development and growth rate; also for the purpose of greater strength. Hormones do play a major role in making the genders what they are, but don't play the biggest role; that belongs to DNA. And every cell of the body has DNA. It's DNA and hormones that together make the gender of a person. Gender is "hardwired" into us. It's a fact that the skeletal and muscle structure of a male cannot be fully suppressed to a true female equivalent by any hormone therapy.
@@timlass6103 exactly. We have millions of cells in our body and every last one of them is stamped with our genetic code...M or F
Just play MPO already, it's open to all.
exactly.. Mixed Pro Open.. is about the money i believe
but then he couldn’t stand on his soapbox
When I read “mixed pro open” I roll my eyes out of my head. Theres no damn women playing MPO, EVER!!!
@@playdiscgolf1546women have competed in MPO, in particular in smaller areas where there aren't many women competitors, but the point is, they can if they want, because it's open to anyone. There is only ONE protected division (including the various levels), and it's female. Female divisions are protected specifically because of the advantages males have.
He isn't good enough to get a tour card in MPO... He's not even 1000 rated.
What cheeses me, is nobody’s changing sex to play in MPO…
Why would they? MPO is MIXED, not Male. It is open to anyone, male or female. Only the female is a protected division, because of the obvious and undeniable advantages of male physique and biology.
ABOUT TIME! Get him out of here! Ban him from the PDGA! SPORTS SCIENCE, not sexual philosophy should have precedent.
Looks like I will not be watching female coverage where men are playing on the female division.
Fact Check - HIS name is Nate Ryan
kind of sad to see how many people are against the right of states to determine their legislation for themselves. you can't just break the law because you disagree with it
I will not renew my PDGA membership if they allow biological males to compete against females.
Wonderful. Please leave!
What a loss. Bye!
Do represent the pdga?@frankvomberg6628
@frankvomberg6628 and if the result was different and you were told to leave and "shut up", that's fine also
@@susiepittman601you constantly writing in support of the Harvard president, or only this situation
I wonder if the bad play after the lawsuits were filed was intentional... Went from winning Tour events to missing cuts.
Probably had to stop practicing and actually working a normal job but idk. He's always sucked but just had good tournaments. He's not the kind to tank on purpose.
@@Discsforbaskets dude you're a fuckin weirdo lol im sorry but I just looked at your profile and it's just videos of your daughter, your profile picture is your daughter and your commenting hateful bigoted shit everywhere with her face attached to it. I seriously hope that your daughter grows up to hate you and disowns you. To be honest in this world with the new generations they all think a lot clearer and use compassion a lot more than the halfwits of your generation
Good luck with all that freak lmao
The thing you don't realize is that there's a balance to the world, it will come back around to you. You're fucked
Tried to even throw left handed on simple backhand holes and act like we wouldn't find that suspicious.
not entirely true. natalie played so poorly at the beginning of the season in 22, ragequit (dnf) 4 times before starting to play well mid season.
TOXIC COMMENT 🛡️
Lmfao
What should it buy with the settlement?
Ferrari, or bottom surgery?
Delusional Shield 🍆
HE.
We include everything except for pure insanity.😂
All this and the merits were never touched - couple TRO's was all it took. Disc golf is still quite niche'. Surprised the PDGA does not have a pro-bono law firm. Law's expensive as heck, especially litigation, unless it's free like NR had in the two blue states, straight up volunteers who like the cause and/or want publicity.
All of the real women should just start playing rec
A new league has formed to protect women players, WWDGO
I'll be done supporting either if that dude is allowed to play against women.
bye. nobody is going to miss you
Keep being vocal! DONT STOP! GET LOUD!
"THEY" yell at everyone, so "they" can get yelled at!
I don't expect people to miss me. I don't expect anything from anyone and I especially don't expect people to cater to my mental illness like these fruitcake fairies are. @@mrpoepoe
PDGA - Perpetrating the Displacement of Girls for Autogynephiles.
PDGA only quit because it was too expensive to fight…. But they may go broke with the same decisions
Correct. PDGA may crumble because they failed to uphold the player unsportsmanlike conduct guide that they have already set.
He needs to be banned for a season.
can this freak just go away.
The PDGA and DGPT stood down to a single dude that should be playing in the MA1 division.
Tbh this needed to happen. This has been happening more frequently and it seems like the majority public opinion is almost always that biological men shouldn’t compete in women’s sports. Obviously there are rare situations where people legitimately fall between being a biological man or woman but that’s another conversation and something that should probably be looked at case by case anyway. I’ve always thought allowing women or those who want to call themselves women into some Men’s sports seemed like a sensible answer that could satisfy everyone (I’m a dumb*** though don’t listen to me.) Hopefully this just goes away and we can continue to enjoy all the sports we love staying fair and competitive indefinitely.
I get ur point totally and do agree, but just to add there is no in between there is either a born female with some "features " due to excessive hormones in utero or born male with some female like features etc due to hormones in utero. Etc so still one sex or another but some differences and yes need to be case by case, but not in between they are still either one sex or the other.
@@private_soul There is most certainly an in between, though the cases are rare.
Great, level-headed response. This is the sort of hate-free views on the matter needed.
Everyone feels for this case but at the same time. NOPE.
I feel for real women who train a lifetime to be beaten by a guy in a dress.
Doctors should inform men who wants to transform into women that competing against woman in an elite level will not be an option. All other stuff is allowed except maby giving birth to children.
Glad PDGA never got a penny from me
That dude better not be allowed to play against females
Ewwwww. We are all shaking in our boots!
@susiepittman601 eewww what exactly does that mean? If this person thinks differently than you it's unacceptable. The way they might think about your personal position on the subject. If the Harvard president is forced to resign for not "outlawing" speech pro Palestinian....that's fine too. Wow all of the sudden they come out with plagiarism about her....don't find that odd because free speech is fundamental to any society, regardless of who is "wrong or right" that's fine also. If someone had you "shaking" in your boots", would you just change your stance on the topic....I hope not.
By the way it is ridiculous at this point for people to call Natalie dude/him, regardless I think people are allowed to speak their mind, just as you and I are....we can disagree and debate any subject, and not just censor or degrade views from the opposite side....because that actually makes people hypocritical and iicckk the same.
@susiepittman601 I could be wrong, there is frustration from both sides, but I would engage in discussions with people who are willing to listen. Even if they disagree, are more than willing to discuss the topic and try their best to be reasonable in their different views. Look up Renae Richard's, who transitioned in her late 30s and started playing against females in the 70s I think. Then look at her comments after she retired, she wasn't even competitive on the men's circuit, but ended up I think in the top 20 in the women's and was almost beating Chris evert, women's no 1. She had changed her mind about fairness. Martina narvratilova came out against this as a gay woman and got roasted unfairly for her stance. I don't agree with a lot of the nonsensical comments, but I ignore them, and try to engage with people who actually want to have an actual conversation regardless of point of view. I will also point out I am 100% free speech regardless of what is said whether I agree or disagree....that will never change.
@@tonydrennan4948 the saltiness oozes off you 😂
@justsomerando8206 lol you seem incredibly intelligent, how bout a incredibly well thought comeback....you seem ridiculously salty too...
.. with an incredibly closed mind to diversity in thought.
I was considering getting a PDGA number this year... not now.
Thankfully, men should play men and women should play against women. Ask the PDGA to make an "it" catergory.
I agree yet your “it” comment reveals your ignorance and hatred.
@markhansen8039 there are two genders male and female. I don't give into people that play dressup.
what you snowflakes call hatred, we call common sense. it's a shame you have none
Unfortunately narcissistic apg will insist on inflicting their agp fetish on everyone and anyone, and sadly that often means women, and women don't need to sue womens sports as they are already women, only a narcissistic man would do that. Women wouldn't want their already low funded sports to be paid out to men who want to pretend dress up. These agps are sick but also narcissistic.
Friendly reminder that it's completely possible to both be against Natalie competing in the FPO division and respect *her* identity. It comes at no personal cost to you whatsoever. I imagine it'll take years of establishing a framework before we see trans women competing at the top levels of sports regularly.
I show people respect when they earn it, not just for being human or because of how they identify. He deserves no respect after stealing thousands of dollars and tournament prestige and placings from women.
Can't respect a man saying he is a woman and competing against actual women. Do you think any actual dude would consider that dude a girl and date him. Nope that would be gay lol
I could care less. The Trans movement is a joke. Being drag was a sexual kink. Nothing more.
@@Discsforbaskets I mean, there is such a thing as common decency. It does you no harm whatsoever to comply with the smallest possible gesture ever, which is to simply call her *her*.
I'm not perfectly read into everything about the situation, but to say that Natalie has stolen money is just patently absurd. She's been allowed to play in a multitude of FPO tournaments. It's not as if she snuck in during the middle of the night with a burglar outfit and robbed the PDGA blind.
Now, as to whether it is fair or not for Natalie to enter these tournaments is the crux of the matter, is it not? As such it brings a lot of vitriol from people who think it's not. There's also the casual bigotry that we're still dragging around thousands of years into our civilisation. It's also naturally heightened by FPO players having their livelihood at stake when they come out to play events - so it's fair that there's frustration and even anger from them if they do feel that it is unfair tat Natalie is competing in the same division.
I think it's fair to assume you're against her participating, yes? That's completely fair. I have to admit that I probably lean that way as well - for now. In a lot of physical sports, there are clear differences between traditional genders. Men are generally built better for some things and women are better at others. I don't think that means that we should bar trans individuals from participating forever, but as I mentioned in my first comment, I think it will take there being a framework written for such things. How that framework would look like, I have no idea, since I have no insight into the medical and psychological realities of being trans and trying to fit into one's "new" skin. I'll be optimistic and hope for something like that within the next decade. However there are a lot of possible complications that could make that process take a lot longer.
(Just saw the new video that Natalie will be eligible for FPO events going forward)
All of which is to say that I don't know what the best solution is. Just that it's always better to try to treat one another with more kindness and openness than what I'm reading from a decent amount of these comments.
@@Purjoloekdon’t be so open minded that your brain falls out
He should be banned from the PDGA for life.
@patrickbecker2065 ok, let's me and Nate go out back and best man leaves
She
no idiot, it's he. just because you decide you want to be a girl one day don't make it so.@@tyholland3101
@@tyholland3101HE got it right the first time. It's a male.
@@tyholland3101 Don't be a dingus. HE has male chromosomes, you cowardly fool! Go spread your hate against women somewhere else!
He. Ryan is a dude.
=)
I wish nothing but the worst for Natalie Ryan. May he never find happiness in his life.
damn, that’s a little harsh I think. Let’s just hope now Natalie understands her actions have consequences and we can all grow from this.
@@JohnnyD5 natalie is a HE, not sure what planet you are from
I think that really speaks to more of what kind of a person you are. With all the shit going on in the world today actively wishing someone "the worst" is energy that definitely could have been spent more wisely.
@hearttransplant And I don't care one bit. Ryan knows he is taking opportunities, wins and earnings away from real woman, but he doesn't give a shit because he's a narcissistic asshole. If he actually cared about women in the slightest, he wouldn't compete in their division. Id bet money he's a misogynist.
agreed.
Mr. Ryan just play with the men like the rest of us
He isn't good enough, did you miss when he gave his reason for playing FPO, when he said he can't compete against male competitors at an elite level? He wants the theme in the glory, he just doesn't have the skill so rather than get better, he took the zero which is pretend to be a woman.
@@PirateDiscGolf-lk7ne fax
@@PirateDiscGolf-lk7ne exactlym and can't pretend to be a woman so cheats.
About time he mans up and owns up to what it is.
you look like a pedophile in your picture
Ha! Gawd you’re hilarious. How’d you think of that?
You’re not an ignorant a hole at all. Maybe read a book on gender identity and the psychology of a misgendered brain/body. Can you read?
Too much hatred in this sport.
I know Natalie should leave these women alone
@@jamesbenton4123 you compete in MA40 to avoid people with higher testosterone. Natalie has the same privilege. Now should there be a 3rd division is a conversation we can have. Exclusion is never an option.
I love how you're intolerant and unaccepting of intolerance.
Diversity good, diversity of thought bad, and you don't even notice the irony.
@@Picklemedia everything ok at home bud?
@@InbredJed82060 lol. Ad hominem attacks are really high on the argument pyramid aren't they? ICU 😘
Congrats dude
Instead of wasting money on Lawyers, I wish Natalie had given the money to starving kids around the world, or to those in war zones, to teach them how to be more inclusive.
Sure give money to areas the bankers decide to start wars for profit and government money laundering. Good plan.
The lawyers were working for free. Probably realized it was going nowhere so the lawyers left.
Is it not obvious that Mr Ryan cares about no one other than himself? He specifically stated he would burn the entire thing to the ground if he didn't get his way.
@@ViJt-oq5nq going nowhere? IT got what it wanted..
@@ViJt-oq5nq Or more realistically, the lawyers grifted a nice settlement for a new car and golf clubs. Lawyers only work for themselves and what $$$ they can steal from their victims, I mean clients.
We need more men in the woman's league because Kristin is a machine that can't be stopped.
I mean, my rating isn’t too far from hers, I’ve beat guys with higher ratings before. Let’s do it!!! I’m ready to start making real money!
@@playdiscgolf1546 go ahead. its never happened and it never will happen.
Glad to hear this is all over and I hope all parties are happy with the settlement. I feel having some United events are the way to go to promote inclusivity within disc golf.
No they are not happy, the PDGA dropped it because for the first time in almost forever they lost money because of the lawsuits and they could not afford to continue. Entire countries have left the PDGA as a result of this, many women (and men) are not renewing their memberships in protest of this terrible decision, and the WWDGO (worldwide disc golf league) has been formed which defends and protects women in sports. You can look up Save Women's Disc Golf for info, which has been great in standing up for and supporting the brave women who are fighting this injustice, as well as financially supporting the female athletes who have been denied and robbed of money and opportunity because of men stealing their places.
The MPO division is an open division to all. The PDGA has always been inclusive, this guy just wants to bully the FPO division for his own self interests. Pathetic.
This is just starting. He now has precedent set that he can play as IF he is a woman. Sexual Philosophy should not govern sports science. He needs to be banned for a year per PDGA unsportsmanlike conduct guidelines (already written).
Now can finally afford that bottom surgery! 🎉
I just hope they don't settle on stopping discrimination only in Cali and Minnesota exclusively. I wouldn't be satisfied until they stop being assholes everywhere.
There never was any discrimination, MPO was available.
By "asshole" I can only assume you must mean the guy who insists on playing in female-only protected divisions and was threatening to burn down everything if he doesn't get his way?
By "asshole" one can only assume you mean an agp infiltrates womens sports, files lawsuit, and causes them to go broke....thats men for ya, and more specifically agp me for ya! And more speficiallu assholes. Women don't need to sue womens sports as they are women. Ryan did as he is not a woman but wants to be one, is jealous as he will never be one and then attacks everything for women play.
Xmas came early boys!!
nate just hit the lotto boys and girls
Bottom surgery, or Ferrari?
Too many choices..
He is such a coward!