He can join a union. He can drive a truck, be a bricklayer, work in a grocery store, warehouse, operate a forklift. I worked with people who had bad conduct discharge. They are like everyone else. If I were a hiring manager, I would give him a job no questions asked. The guy from the VA he is wrong, don't judge a book by its cover and getting a job is as easy as buying a hot dog at your friendly, neighborhood 7-eleven.
I made out okay with a BCD, in fact I just got a promotion. My employer now provides gloves for me to use when replacing the urinal cakes in public restrooms.
How did you get the locomotive number? The number boards look blank and it's hard to see the number on the side of the cab. Where was the train station?
@@dalecomer5951 // At the 5:01 mark the number boards can be seen just as the train passes out of the camera view. At 5:30 the GTW emblem can be seen on a passenger car. As far as depot location, I believe the GTW passenger main line ran from MI, IL, IN, and WI (and beyond). I would imagine it was filmed somewhere close to Chicago just for the feasibility factor, but that's just a guess.
No college or on the job training pay for that beagle (sigh). Doomed to a life of napping, long walks, chasing tennis balls, and free food / housing. If only that dog had seen this 1950's DOD educational film.
@@williamjones6053 know that she's Ellen Burstyn? He recognized her. Know when she was born? Wikipedia, of course. But you knew that, because you aren't that dense, right?
THANK YOU, I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO SHE WAS, BECAUSE I THOUGHT I RECOGNIZED HER, BUT COULD NOT PLACE HER❗❗❗ IN HER PRIME SHE WAS A LOOKER❗❗👌👌👍👍✔✔👀👀 NOW I CAN SLEEP TONIGHT😁😁😁
I believe that I watched this film in Boot Camp....but the funny thing is that after I got back from Vietnam no one ever cared about or even wanted to see my Honorable Discharge other than when I joined The VFW....but I was occasionally berated at job interviews for my service in Vietnam and for wasting my time in the service insted of gaining valuable experience in the workforce... And when I applied for and got a job with The State all that they wanted to know that I was a Vet because they told me that they got money from the Feds for hiring me...They didn't care at all about my discharge status..
Thank you for your service sir!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 I tell these young kids to use common sense and don't panic about the Corona Virus. You guys who served in Vietnam went through hell but survived. They couldn't live one month in Nam. You guys served a tour of duty because you had to. No cell phones , no facebook or streaming video. I tell these kids my generation had to "duck and cover" in school (1967-73) and it didn't affect us.
@Uncle Ruckus Well there was historically a time when things like this mattered to people...Like right after WWII.....but time has gone by and attitudes changed...Jane Fonda disgraced herself as a traitor and all of america saw it and knew it ...and Ho -Hum...I finally realized that I had a better chance in a job interview ...if I didn't tell them that I was a VET!...I even had one personal Manager...(A motherly middle aged woman )...Tell me that while I was wasting my time in the service ..other applicants were gaining valuable work experience!
@@stevebell4906 Richard Nixon prolong the war by talking to the South Vietnamese president. The real traders are all the people that lied the Gulf of Tonkin incident
Read this, and it was deja vu time. I experienced the same thing, more or less. Except I joined the American Legion and the Navy Club, instead of the VFW. I got a job with the Illinois Dept of Mental Health.
I was discharged in 1972, I would have been better off telling people I had been in prison. Good papers meant nothing to employers and it seemed like they would hire anyone before a Vietnam Veteran. I still have trouble understanding what happened.
I got out later, but I never encountered any of that stuff or knew anyone else who had at any place I worked. Maybe because I worked at a lot of aerospace firms who were doing military contracts and as such, they hired a lot of us vets. They were great places to work -- even the female managers cussed like sailors... :)
Your reply was enlightening, in 1980 I was hired by Hercules Aerospace. Worked for 3 1/2 years and haven't had any trouble staying employed right up to retirement.
I ETS'd in early '73 (Northern California). Being a vet put you in the same league as a leper. FAQ in job interviews: how many people did you kill? How was the dope? Do you still have access to the PX? One recruiter had the gall to tell me to roll up my sleeves, so he could check for track marks. I lucked out and landed a job in Wyoming.
@@billgund4532 A friend of mine served as an Army Officer 4 years active duty (Armor branch). He told me about a job interview the 'character' who interviewed him of course asked him what had he been doing. So my friend explained, the 'character' behind the desk who probably looked like the Pillsbury Dough Boy said well 'that a little better than reform school' have you done anything else?
Thanks Periscope. I was thinking about 'stretching my wings' al till I got a good stiff look at Leavenworth from the outside while on a deuce-and-a-half driving detail. I was the finest guy you ever saw after that. Yet and still. I think my Lord gave me a little look of where I might go. I'll always be grateful.
i served my time in the U.S. Navy It was an honor to serve my country as my father did. Being a Veteran also came with many benefits. Ill always remember the smile on my dad's face when i graduated from Navy Boot Camp. He told me how proud he was of me. I remember that day and those words all these years later.
Sounds like you spent much of your young life trying to please others, especially daddy....I too served a hitch in the Navy, and felt some sense of honor in doing so...but I also began to realize that the country I was serving, was engaging in a dishonorable war-Viet-Nam. So I think much of this film is just propaganda, brainwashing many of us into thinking we should blindly sign up for a duty, that might be questionable....as for what happens aftrer a questionable discharge from the service...well, Jimi Hendrix was discharged for being "UNSUITABLE', after a year in the Army...then he went on to become the greatest electric Rock guitarist of his day...the real consequences of a negative military career are quite minimal for most people.
@@dwightpowell6673 well he needed to apply for benefits unless he received a dishonorable discharge. Otherwise he gets the same benefits as everyone else does.
When I worked with army records, whenever a soldier was about to be discharged for a less than honorable discharge, he/she had to sign a certain form. The form advised the soon to be discharged soldier that he/she would lose most if not all VA benefits. In this video, Paul stated that he only knew that he could not go to college. He should have known that he couldn’t get any benefits with a BCD even before he left the brig.
How about a 'General Discharge'? A guy I used to work with told me he got a general discharge. I didn't see the document, though, so not sure about that.
He would have known that, they make sure that they tell you that when you get a BCD. I had two of my guys that got BCD's in a year. They just hated the Navy. they were always apologetic for getting in trouble and making my life hard. I tried to tell them again and again that they better really think about it, because a lot of companies that have government contracts will never hire them.
I have seen that crap happen. Young, dumb, and full of sh@t. Like the part about being smarter than everybody else. I know it’s a government movie; but writing a script for this wouldn’t be fictional. Wow. I had to edit this because I said non fictional instead of fictional. Derrrp.
Choices always have consequences. Unfortunately many people don't consider the consequences when they make choices, and they probably don't know how far reaching their choices can be. A Bad Conduct Discharge or choosing the wrong person to marry or spending unwisely are probably the most life changing choices anyone can make and the consequences can be irreversible.
@@seka1986 I honestly can say I hit the jackpot and found the right person to marry. The first wife was a really bad choice on my part, my current wife is a charm and I'm sure she'll stay that way because I've known her for 40 years.
@@rudolphguarnacci197 Marriage isn't irreversible, there's always divorce, but that has consequences too. Once again choice plays a role. Stay married and miserable or divorce and suffer financial ruin, and possibly more. My divorce was very costly but staying with the ex would have cost much more, perhaps even my life. I divorced and rebuilt. There as a great deal of pain involved and that's what was intended by the ex. She did her best to make it painful in every way, attempts at career destruction, false accusations of domestic violence, arrests, reputation destruction. She was a Narcissist. I wish I had known enough to recognize that before I married her. It was an expensive, painful lesson. Based upon my experience I would advise anyone contemplating divorce, once the decision has been made, plan ahead for a place to stay and just leave and disappear. Always have a witness to your whereabouts during the divorce so false accusations can't stick, NEVER talk to police if questioned until you've received legal counsel. Stay away from the ex wife to be and do not talk with her at all, ever..
@@rudolphguarnacci197 For every divorce, there is another couple that should be divorced...but many folks will stick with a mediocre relationship, fearing that they cannot do better, or just assuming that all relationships eventually suck, so what the Hell, might as well keep this thing going.Either way, marriage is mostly a bad thing!
Bad paper. Three and a half years as a Personelman in the mid 70’s. Never discharged anybody with a BCD. I processed some General Discharges. Court Martial. Most of the time a command would try everything to avoid that level of punishment. Not any easy accomplishment to earn yourself that kind of paper.
Western Union bike messenger. I do recall seeing a few when I was a kid in 1954, the year of this film, but they were rapidly fading away. This is a rare Jam Handy film produced for the armed forces after WWII. They almost always produced their own films before the war, but the volume of training films needed for the rapidly expanding armed forces meant outside help was needed. Jam Handy produced about 7,000 films for the armed forces during the war. His major commercial work was for the auto industry from the 40's to 70's where he produced another 3,000 films. He was a Detroit native, and his studio was located there. The area around Detroit appears to the filming locale, at least for the train sequence, since the it was a Grand Trunk Western passenger train, one of the few roads still running steam passenger trains in 1954.
@@rudolphguarnacci197 Yes, it was, before the Mad Max collapse occured. There are still some nice areas like Boston-Edison, Rosedale Park, and Palmer Woods, but you have to be willing to pay for your own street lights, hire your own security patrols, send your kids to private schools, but still pay a huge amount in property taxes. After all that, you are still living in a city that's losing population, provides very few services, and your home will generally be within a quarter mile of some of the worst slums in the country.
Those BCDs and Dishonorable Discharges can ruin your life. No vet benefits, nobody wants to hire you, and most people don't want to have anything to do with you. My ex brother-in-law pulled a few stunts in the Army. He spent his last 90 days in jail. He got a Dishonorable Discharge. It's been all downhill from there.
Not saying a BCD is a good thing but my honorable discharge failed to offer me my medical benefits that I had counted on. Was promised but only got part of them by writing to a congressman. The VA started listening after the senator sent them an inquiry form of some sort. I received a bare minimum benefit package but mostly got screwed and the treatment I got left me without the use of one lung due to a botched heart surgery and no hope of being seen by a person who could fix me. My back surgery had similar results. Regardless of what people say about how great the VA is, they are under funded and gave me sub standard treatment. I was told there was a procedure available to rich people at the Mayo Clinic to fix my lung malfunction but that I wasn’t going to get it.
Schmaltzy the Golem The second thing I got out of this video is "if you're going to receive something lower than a general discharge, make sure you don't live somewhere where everyone knows your name."
@@evergriven7402 Ya, also grab the picture of his family and say "look at the knockers on her! You must be proud.. and your wife ain't bad either." It shows him your 'one of the boys.' Other favorites included, "whoa, soo a... You guys swingers?" Always finish up with asking if his daughter is dating yet.
@@946towguy2 it’s a bad conduct discharge. It is far from a honorable discharge. It is equivalent to a dishonorable discharge. I doubt that it means much nowadays. People would not care if they received a bad discharge. If they were to reinstate the draft I bet there would be a lot of them.
My dad told me "come home with anything less than an honorable , don't come at all ". And he ment business. And I got my honorable. Dad helped get my foot in the door at the local steel mill.
@Crown Commando - Perhaps he wouldn't have been that hard assed to consider the circumstances. A medical discharge doesn't mean you were permanently injured or disabled under less than honorable conditions. You think every vet of WWII who came home minus a body part was treated as if he did something less than honorable?
My father was a WW 2 veteran, joined the USMC in 1939. He used to tell us about it many years later -- He was on guard duty one day guarding 2 fellows who were in the brig. I will always remember his description of the kind of guys they were, total losers. Dad said a BCD was a badge of shame. He also mentioned that a man who contracted VD while in the service would get medical treatment, but would also be disciplined for negligence. I don't know if it was true or perhaps gossip. Dad was proud to be one of the few and served in the Pacific theatre in the Solomon and Russell Islands. He was wounded there and received a medical (honorable) discharge in 1944. The Greatest Generation is fading away. They are dearly missed.
@@OceanSwimmer - Yes, that is true. According to sources of the times, (and I can find it on TH-cam if need be) contracting VD would remove you from being able to perform every possible normal type of duty, limiting you to only certain kinds of duty for a certain length of time. While this was the case, you were disciplined for "damaging government property" and the time lost to regular duty could actually be tacked on to the end of your enlistment so that the government got the full use of your contracted services to the military. The movie in question, concerned the Navy, and duty aboard ships, which also showed the "special accomodation" afforded sailors in such a condition. Before it was proven that VD could *NOT* be contracted by sitting on dirty toilet seats, there was a special one provided to sailors with VD, during their course of treatment, that only they could use so as not to spread it around to other shipmates. It was in a corner, and made of brilliant scarlet red materials. Making it the "Seat of Shame" more or less. (Yes, they showed the whole layout.) Seems rather counterintuitive to me, though. IF it could actually be spread in such a manner, wouldn't that actually involve reinfecting themselves by continually using the same seat like that? I mean, spreading it around to the other guys by *not* containing the spread (by limiting contact to one place) would *ALSO* not be a good idea. But, if you were supposed to be able to spread it that way, why would you want the infected individual to continually reinfect himself? Kind of makes ones head spin, doesn't it?🤔?
".....and so, I put the past behind me. I figured that, one day, I'd come back to my family and hometown- and........-and start over again. Clean.....fresh.......with honor. But I had a long way to go before that could ever happen. I climbed on the train, and headed towards San Francisco. A old friend of mine offered me a job in his agency. He said I'd know the difference between right and wrong- and maybe a few lumps would toughen me up in the process. And that's how I became PAUL ELTON- PRIVATE DETECTIVE."
I think it would have been cool if the next seen, he picks up the phone and asks his greaser friend to play drums a rockabilly band and that he'd written some tunes in the brig.
A hero's welcome for a washout. Military isn't for everyone, too bad recruiters lie through their teeth to get young people to sign that contract. My company in boot camp went from 92 recruits to 36 in 13 weeks. When I went in you really had to want to be there. Fortunately I really wanted to be there, but after 4 years active and 2 years of reserves it was time to get out. My honorable discharge opened doors for me, and today at 67 years old I have had free Health Insurance for close to 45 years. No regrets... The reality is, a person once out in the fleet, had to work really hard to get a BCD or DD. But in Boot Camp the US Navy simply didn't want you if you would quit. And the ones that got booted in my company in boot camp all had one thing in common, they quit.
Buster...Knew a guy, after we were both civilians again, who was assigned to the tool crib in his squadron. He was there because he wasn't reliable enough to be assigned to a shop or go on det. He lived his life along the same lines and never saw the light. He never once looked inward. Very sad.
I went through marine corps boot camp. I was out after two weeks, The captain of the company sent me to Balboa Park Navy Hospital for three days. I was given a room, three meals a day, a TV to watch what I want. I was extensively interviewed by a United States Navy psychiatrist and a psychologist and after the interviews, I was given a medical discharge. A man commander Billingsley active duty and a psychologist Commander Wilcox and two others who did the interview told me "I was not suitable for service". I was then given $500, a new pair of clothes, and a one way ticket back to Oakland, California on a United Airlines Boeing 737-200 out of Lindbergh Field. I told him I was not suitable before shipping out. To get his "brownie" points. He had to go to the school to obtain my signature.
@Bones McGillicuddy I live on my own I have a girlfriend who is an army veteran. She is a few years older than me. I remember an old Camel filters cigarette ad that says "Camel filters are not for everybody, but then again they don't tend to be". I have a job and make very good money. I was not elegible for disabtility. The Navy psychiatrist and psychologist told me I was not suitable for service. I was approached of the idea by one recruiter but he kind of lost interest in me. Another recruiter contacted me but I told him what happened. I did not pass the ASVAB test, anyone who did not pass often would be dropped. But the new recruiter was going to get me in but would give me some mickey mouse job I was not going to take. He took me to MEPS for a physical exam. I tried to fail the hearing test and the psychiatrist interview. He called and told me I passed. After graduation from high school. I was shipped off in August. In receiving, they did another exam and I was "red flagged" in layman's terms, subject further examination. The drill instructor pulled me off and it was not discovered until two weeks into training. I don't know how many the platoon had, but I was one of several "singled out" to be out of the corps. Some where thrown out for fraudulent enlistment and like me, medical issues. The company Commander sent to Balboa hospital and after about five days. I was released for medical reasons. In the end I did thank the doctors who interviewed me and that signed off on my release.
@@nhot2132 Let's just say, I am lucky. The so called "crucible" was what will make a person a marine. I did not have to go through that. Week two I was instructed by Captain Welsh who was the company Commander and he told me "we are going to send you to Balboa Navy hospital for an evaluation". I was sent there, I was given a private room, with a bed and chair, table, and a TV, the TV I can watch anything I want. IE old movies, game shows, reruns of old TV shows, educational. I was interviewed by two Navy psychiatrists and two Navy psychologists. After extensive interviews, I was told that I will be discharged from the corps do to unsuitability. I was given $500, a new pair of "civvies" lingo for civilian clothes, and a one way ticket from San Diego to Oakland on a United airlines Boeing 737-200. I have a job but I look back and say after these wars we went through. I am lucky to be alive, god bless.
I remember when I was in basic training. (1977) One of the lectures we had the D.I. explained about general and dishonorable discharges. He said that normally they sent a press release to the soldiers home town newspaper. It got our attention.
I am a paralegal for a military attorney and as I remember General discharges don’t get published. I know DDs and BCD get published or at least used to. Besides a general under honorable isn’t bad - it’s easier to get upgraded to a honorable as long as it is with good reason. The downside to getting a general discharge is you may not get all or any of your benefits. Any punitive discharge by court martial can really screw your life up bad. You don’t have prayer in hell getting it upgraded though - unless you can show proof you didn’t deserve one. I tell those people they should go into politics.
Originally I was in the Navy as a Sea Bee back in the late 50s. I was acquainted with a fellow from Denver who did not control his desires and ended up getting STDs at least a half dozen times and ended up with a BCD. He was the sort that didn't care about anyone but himself. His record followed him everywhere.
@@tomhaskett5161 He refused to take precautions and he was treated for several different STDs and the Navy finally gave him a BCD, not a Dishonorable Discharge. I think he told me he got these more than 10 times but I cannot remember that specifically. He ended up dying a number of years ago from several cancers and admitted to me that at least one of them was attributed to one of the STDs.
Obviously paul isn’t the only one who’s done dumb things. If I had a buck for every dumb thing I’ve ever done, I’d be filthy rich! (I’ve never been in the service.)
hell, you can fudge VA records nowadays. people get away with it all the time. they're always catching people who've been doing stolen valor and getting veteran benefits for years, sometimes decades. once you've gotten away with it for awhile, nobody thinks or cares to double check. Don Shipley nails these guys all the time, dudes who've been scamming the VA...sometimes since the Vietnam era. my friend Amy is an Army veteran, served 12 years and now works for the VA, she's always complaining about people with shady information getting benefits...but most of the time they just pass them along, because there's just no time or resources to do deep research. or the Army, Navy, Marines, etc, never bother doing an investigation. they don't even return phone calls or emails. she says that right now, she personally knows of at least 3-4 people who've been fudging their service records for over 10 years, and she's reported them over and over...nobody does anything. it's like nobody wants to find out, because it might expose serious flaws--or maybe even crimes--happening inside the VA at higher levels.
The key to a successful military career - stay focused on your job, stay away from others who you know are nothing but trouble, and think twice before you do something that you think may be illegal. Worked for me. 21 years with a pension and an honorable discharge!
Uncle served 28 years with full pension. Went to work for the Post office and worked almost as long got a second full pension. Then opened a profitable little online business for fun. My aunt taught school till she got a full pension. They are practically rich. Their work paid off their nice house as well.
@@poetcomic1 that’s good! It seems many of my civilian friends and family members comment “must be nice!” When they know I receive a pension; and my response to them is: “yes, it is!”. We all choose our vocations in life, some will make more money than others, but it’s your decision where you work or what you do.
@@user-bn5df6hl1d I think it a good trade off, between a higher salary, but subject to termination with little or no notice; or a lower salary, but a decent paycheck, a generous benefit package and job security 😁
@Bones McGillicuddy The dd214 at least into the 1990's was very easy to fake, since it was a quadruplicate form typed on a typewriter or an impact printer. Before the internet, most employers wouldn't have bothered to verify one unless it was required for funding a program.
@Bones McGillicuddy Depends on the job....but you sure as hell arent getting into law enforcement or anything that requires a security clearance or background check.
@Bones McGillicuddy In the 1950's through 1990's just about any print shop could make a blank form. Blank forms could also be stolen by an admin clerk.
Military recruiters and the career counselors often do the bait and switch. At the home town recruiting office, the applicant is shown all the different jobs that the service has. But once at the MEPPS, the applicant is told that there are no openings in the MOS he’s interested in but there are openings In other MOSs. The pitch would be” be a real soldier and go infantry or how about being a cook?” The applicant gets suckered into an MOS he doesn’t perform well in when he could have made a good medic or aircraft mechanic. The new soldier gets dejected and either gets an administrative discharge or when asked to REUP, he accepts discharge, even if he’s offered the MOS he first was interested in. A good service member, disappointed in the way the military works, goes back to civilian life.
Hmmmm....interesting. I wonder era you guys are talking about. The reason being is I took the ASVAB back in 86 and was given a list of jobs I could do based on my score. I made my decision and was given that job. Everyone I went through bootcamp with went to their respective school they chose for which they scored high enough to get. That's how it has worked for at least that long. You guys must be talking about the Vietnam era or something huh?
I reminded of the movie "Private Benjamin," where the Judy Benjamin character was told by the recruiter of the marvelous time to be had in the US Army with travel and lodging accommodations. Gee! She was sure in for a surprise when reality set in.
That is how I got talked out of signing up in the late 1980's. A few Vietnam vets who never met each other shared their exact same experiences with this happening. "I was told my job would be X by the recruiter, but after I signed I learned there was no opening and I would have to chose something else." I was told that, by my time, they stopped doing that. But, who would I believe- the recruiter with the incentive to lie or the multiple vets who went through it themselves ?
Depends upon when you were in... I can remember a lot of different enlistment options on the years in the Navy... Usually a combination of years of active service, combined with years of active reserve or years of inactive reserve... I can remember 2, 3, 4, and 6 year active enlistments with various lengths of active or inactive reserve. I think it depended upon your scores on the ASVAB test, the field you went into, how desperate the Navy was for people in that field, and probably how good you could negotiate with the recruiter. :) But it has been quite a few decades and my memory is a bit fuzzy on some things... Things like what I had for supper tonight... :( Getting old sucks...
When I served in the Navy 1970 -73 a couple of guys in our division just wanted out so they purposely got caught with pot. The penalty then was 30 days in the brig followed by a dishonorable discharge.
When I was in the Navy '79-83, pot use was almost treated like a joke. We had guys that got popped 3 or 4 times for weed, got the standard "award" (1/2 month's pay for 2 months, 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, reduction in rate by one grade), and went on with their tours.
The best sequence in the whole picture is the tricycle kick and the little girl running out at the end. It's totally French New Wave and fraught with meaning.
Three years on a carrier flight deck. Was it rough? You bet. Very exciting stuff for a 19 year old kid in 1976 and I was handed an honorable discharge for my service. Lots of guys got fed up and took the "easy" early way out but not having that honorable will follow you the rest of your life.
BS!! You can have medical discharges and General under honorable and you can do just fine. It's punitive discharges like dishonorable and bad conduct that will screw you over.
Say what you will. That era far surpasses the current one. The streets were clean, people dressed well, you could send your child to the store without fear, the locomotives were insanely cool, and a million other reasons.
Sounds like you have Old World Blues. Everything that counted was just as screwed up; everyone just seems to have selective memory. Some absolutely horrible, extremely high-profile historical events happened in the 1950s. The perfection you see was usually a paper-thin facade people kept up, despite everyone knowing it was a lie. The same things we have happen today happened then, but simply weren't spoken of. And there was so much *empty ceremony.* Frankly, I find the whole pantomime absurd, wasteful, and detrimental to addressing any issues there were. Did you notice how tense the dining room got when Paul announced he wasn't going along with everyone's expectations? This despite the facts that for all they knew he was a hero fresh out of a metal-storm hell, and his decision would put no burden whatsoever on them? _Social status_ seemed clearly the motivation for most who wanted Paul to go through a lot of grueling study and become a lawyer.
you're talking about being white and well-off, or middle-class. what about being black or brown back then? we still had Jim Crow laws. segregation. voter suppression. the Klan. lynchings. widespread institutional racism. women being openly harassed in public and in the workplace. this was the same time as Japanese, Italian, and German internment camps here in the "land of the free". american citizens taken from their homes and imprisoned. completely innocent people dragged away, exactly the same thing the Nazis were doing in Europe. some of these people weren't released until the early 1950s. there weren't even marital rape laws until the late 1970s. it wasn't universal settled law until 1993. think about that for a minute. marital rape was treated DIFFERENTLY from other rape cases. people being well-dressed doesn't count for anything when your fellow citizens are being treated like prisoners in a concentration camp all over your nation. as for it being safe, yes, the 1940s-50s were a very safe time. there was low violent crime, but you know what? NOWADAYS our violent crime is just the same as the 1950s. look at the violent crime statistics--2021 is just as safe as the 1950s. i grew up in the 80s-90s, and man, THAT was a hell of a dangerous time to live through. terrible crime, the reemergence of drug epidemics like heroin and crack, the huge rise of street gangs, the beginning of mass incarceration... thankfully, today's world is much safer than the 80s-90s. the post-war era and 1950s were a bubble. it seemed great, but look what happened in the late 60s and 70s--the Rust Belt, because all that artificial boom died, and they couldn't sustain their workforce. so yeah, things LOOKED better back then. but in so many ways, america was rotten to the core. and in many ways, it still is.
We're safer than ever before, but we're more well informed than ever before too, we consume a lot more news on a daily basis and as news is usually negative by its nature it influences our perception of the world and our society thus. Now if our worries are justified or not is a seperate discussion.
Jerry R might need a cognitive study. Selective memory is a sign of developing dementia and other deleterious cognitive affectations. My grandfather had Alzheimer’s. In the beginning, he remembered a similar utopian lifestyle, one that his beloved wife, my grandmother, knew simply didn’t exist. She was a compassionate lady, a brilliant conversationalist who learned long ago that times don’t change as much as memories do.
I know this film was trying to make a point, but what the VA representative didn't mention is that the VA has a status for people who have received BCD's as "Honorable for VA Purposes." Former servicemembers who have received this special status by the VA are still denied VA healthcare if they were BCD'ed, but alas, anything is better than a dishonorable discharge.
Remember when a BCD or DD made you virtually unemployable? Employers were mostly veterans and understood how easy it was to get either an Honorable Discharge.
@@evergriven7402 it still does make you unemployable. The only people I've seen overcome BCD and DDs were dual nationals of third world countries who went back to the country of birth or the other country that was not the United States. They had no chance of a life here so had no choice but to go there and try to make life as best they can there. Most didn't have what most Americans would consider a good life but most had their own homes, a job they wouldn't have otherwise and surviving far better than they would otherwise. Employers there had no problem exploiting them. No chance of them leaving, would work that much harder knowing they had no choice but to accept as there was nothing better for them as BCD and DD would not only follow them in the U.S. but most Anglophone countries like Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The best he could hope for is going to France and joining the French Foreign Legion. If he survives the five year contract he can get French citizenship but he can never again set foot on American soil if he wants a future. France is nice but it is not the United States and theee idifferences enough between the two cultures will never adapt to or in his heart of hearts will never accept.
@@chrismc410 not to mention Paul could and should have lied about discharge character and not pursued any VA benefits back in the 50s.. He would have been OK ... as long he stayed away from Police or any govt job and maybe thats why a lot did make it because This film assumes that someone that is Immoral enough to do the shit he did to get his "Easy Out" out would still be moral enough to tell the truth on an employment application where it was next to impossible to verify in the private sector
When I got out of the Navy in 79 with an honorable discharge, nobody asked for my DD-214.... of course pumping gas at a Union 76 station and being a custodian for the school system did not require a high-clearance level like maybe a government job?
@Bones McGillicuddy huh. I live in San Diego and separated 6 years ago but not one place has asked for my DD-214. I have five official copies but even for being the largest major city with a huge vet population, it's not a big deal.
Gotta love that the draft was not for everyone, but at least back then the US military had a good way to take care of those who did not want to learn to conform with rules & reg's and the ways of military life. Life was soo much simpler back in the day.
I dispute your latter claim. But yeah: Paul's showing such a bad attitude, most of the disciplinary action he complained about was probably well-earned. And he almost seems like a narcissist; to him it's all about what _he_ wanted _then,_ which makes everything he did right. Wanting to get out and even fouling up on purpose to do it can be one thing. Staying casual and dismissive about such wartime conduct in the face of such obvious and dangerously-escalating social disapproval... *during the 1950s?* That's clueless, arrogant, and stupid.
they drafted people who didn't want to be there and could be troublemakers, then expected them to behave like honor students once they were in? inevitably flawed system. we're all so much better off without it.
Nah he went to college, smoked a lot of weed and dropped too much acid, and now he's a tenured department chair in humanities and political science at a major university, indoctrinating the younger generation on the evils of capitalism and western civilization while supporting every wacko liberal cause that comes out. Later! OL J R :)
@@RonJohn63 I was just being humorous, but irrelevant or not something went wrong or something happened that would cause him and the service to part ways. Like the saying goes in many languages (shit happens). Thank you for responding.
Back in my day, I knew some guys who made E-7 in 7 years because they were a certain specialty which required a lot of training and many people in that specialty would get out after they had completed their 6-year commitment. I also met people who were in specialties which did not have much turnover (i.e. you basically had to wait for someone to retire or die in order to make rank) and they might retire after 20 as only an E-5 or E-6. Back then, if you retired at 20, you got 50% of your base pay and if you stuck it out to 30, you got 75%. I haven't kept up with it since then, so I don't know how they structure it these days.
He should have moved to Canada. The employers up there would think a BCD was a university degree. "US Military service and a BCD eh? Its aboot time we had a person with your qualifications walk in the door. There's a senior management job open and it has your name on it!"
i doubt it usually we just get the draft dodgers. we try to hire the best person for the job based on skill and the ability to do the job. we dont hire cowards.
@@mikeohagan2206 The French Foreign Legion is still around. But he had to make it to France to just to join so he have to get a passport and plenty of money to get there.
In my time in the US Navy seabees someone had to royally screw up to receive a Bad Conduct Discharge. Dishonorable Discharges are given out for what would be felony crimes in the civilian world. The only people who i know were kicked out for popping on drug tests or too many alcohol related instances got bad conduct discharges. Its not hard to keep out of trouble. If you get in and realize its not for you. Just keep your head low do what's required and get out with a honorable discharge.
My old boss had a dishonorable discharge from the airforce, but he was a jet aircraft engineer so he had zero problems getting a job and was earning more money than anyone i knew.
the easiest and the least painful for both the service and service member is "Unsuitable for military service" which can mean anything from bedwetting, peterpuffing, undisclosed medical condition or fraudulent enlistment that is not waiverable . BCDs and DDs are for what civilians refer to as "felonies" and you will be set a military prison.
I got a discharge for Unsuitable for Military Service. But, it was due to blowback from turning in senior drill instructors and officers who were doing illegal stuff. They got wind of it and forged my papers. It got to the point it was getting dangerous. It got so bad that one guy committed suicide. I got out and contacted CID. I got a wavier to go back in anytime. This was back in 1993. CID did find out they forged my papers and lied. I tried to get in the Navy in 2000 and everything went well except the Navy recruiter didn't push my paperwork due to not getting a bonus and Navy billets were being cut.
screwing up one time completely screws up the rest of your life? what a shitty deal. imagine if we all were judged because of one stupid, insignificant thing we did a long time ago. violent crime is one thing. but everything else, meh....you shouldn't be judged by that. "bad conduct" could be anything. it could be theft, could be not showing up to work on time, could be lots of things. it doesn't make a person completely USELESS as a human being forever. terrible system.
Some really interesting comments here guys... both my mothers side and dads side are deep military BUT dad went to Vietnam and was very adamant about NOT joining to me and my brother, well we didn't, went to trades school on our own dime and we both do well for ourselves... thanks dad. P.S. at almost 50 years old now not once has anyone said to me or showed me it was a bad move, if fact not much word being said good about healthcare for veterans that goes back to my grandpaw who died in 86. Now ww2 was different times... very patriotic now days not so much
@supercharged6771 // Some of the best advice ever given to me was by my grandfather (a WWII vet) who said, "Learn a trade with your hands. No matter where you go you'll always have work." I was 18 then and 35 years later I haven't yet proven him wrong....Glazier Local 636
George Bush took my husband's benefits in August of '03. That draft dodger said my husband's pension was too much money ..so No Benefits for him. No joke.
Amazing, Ellen Burstyn, an Oscar winner, is in this film. She also won Tony and 2 Emmys, making her a very rare "Triple Crown" winner. She was born in 1932 and is very much still with us at age 90.
A good friend of mine got a Less than Honorable from the Army in the early 80's. He was a dropout with a 7th grade education and a troubled youth who spent most of his teen years in one reform school or another. His mother signed the papers to allow him to enlist at 17. It got him out of her hair and house. Too many AWOLs and what technically amounted to desertion got him booted by age 18. He always regretted his decision to leave with an LTH. I can't say it ruined his life. He was making half a mil a year when he passed away and had earned his Masters degree in technology. His Doctoral thesis was going thru peer revue when he died while vacationing in Mexico.
@@marine4lyfe85 Internet security. He was an adjunct professor at Dunwoody teaching computer forensics. In the old days people thought it was cool to hack your computer and let you know they had done so. Now they want to get in, steal your data and get out without you knowing you were hacked. Most big online company's now employ internet security managers so they don't have to tell millions of customers that their credit card numbers are all for sale on the dark web.
I was a JAG officer in the Army and then in the Air Force for 23 years. I prosecuted and defended over 200 servicemen who received a BCD. Some, like our hero here, strived for a punitive discharge during the height of the war in Viet Nam to avoid being sent there. Shameful waste of their lives.
Alternative title: "The perils of being too smart for military service." BTW, my long form DD214 shows honorable discharge. With the 1990s government shutdown delaying my GI Bill pay, it didn't help my post-service education benefits much. "You can write to Washington," but flush twice.
Back during the Vietnam Era getting a discharge from active duty varied by branch of service. One example I knew based on my time in the Air Force was the following. The airman went to the Hospital Squadron Commander and said “I can’t afford to live in the manner to which I’m accustomed.” He had a wife and child, had bought a house and new car and couldn’t keep up payments on $450 a month pay (1964). Another example was an airman who would sleepwalk off site from the barracks at night. This was a radar site in Louisiana so he didn’t have to sleepwalk far to be in bayou country. He got a discharge. My understanding is that the Army was much more restrictive.
Way down in this Comments section a person wrote that the part of Mary was played by a young _Ellen Burstyn;_ which explains why that actress playing the part of Mary did very well with expressing emotions. I thought there was something vaguely familiar looking with Mary, and when I saw the reference to Burstyn in the Comments section, it dawned on me. I don't recall seeing such acting quality in other film productions like this one of that era.
Just to be technical, a BCD is not a dishonorable discharge... The DD counts as a felony and the BCD is kind of like a misdemeanor, but it doesn't show up on the person's criminal record... In some cases, even a DD might not show up... I have never had to show my DD-214 to an employer, even though I've held quite a few jobs that were with aerospace companies working for the DoD or the Navy... And as far as I can remember, I don't think I've ever been asked or known anyone else that was asked what type of discharge they received. I seem to remember someone in the personnel department at one of the companies telling me that I cannot ask what type of discharge a person received during a job interview. Something about it being treated as private information like medical information or some sort. I served with a guy that had what was probably a really personality conflict with a CPO that was over our group. I'm not sure what started it, but the CPO was constantly harassing him and trying to find fault with him. At one point, the guy just wasn't there anymore and no one knew what happened to him. Eventually, I heard that he just couldn't take the constant harassment, left, and bummed around the country for awhile. He supposedly even tried to reenlist under another name. Eventually he came to the attention of the police when he was stopped for speeding or sleeping somewhere he wasn't supposed to be and they returned him to the Navy. From what I heard, the Navy gave him a court martial and he got a BCD out of it. I wasn't a lifer... I did my one hitch and got out... I *thought* about going back in, but instead ended up dropping back into college, and picking up a couple of degrees. I even considered going back in after I had gotten my degrees since that would mean that I could be an officer. But by that time, I had picked up a wife and being non-single and hitting port would not be fun... :) I've heard it argued that even a person who went in and got a DD is better than someone who didn't go in at all -- at least they *tried*... There might be some truth in that... I don't know...
There are many occupations which require background checks, especially in bonded positions, or Government contractors. Forget getting a security clearance.
@@mike89128 -- A actual official government security clearance is costly and takes some time. Many companies will only hire people with currently active security clearances so that they do not have to pay for it. Considering how long it takes from what I understand, a person might work at a company for quite awhile before the clearance came back either approved or denied. I would think that if a person had a type of discharge that they really wanted to hide, probably their best bet would be to just not mention that they had ever been in the military to any future employer. You don't want to lie since that is grounds for immediate dismissal by many companies, but just not volunteering the information is not the same as lying. Most people go into the military probably not that many years out of high school, so it would be easier to hide a few years gap in your job history back at the start. They say that when you are writing your resume, you should not list *every* job you've ever had and that only the last few would be what a potential employer would be interested in looking at. They also say that if your resume gets past 2 pages, it is unlikely to get read.
@Howie Felterbush -- I assume you are responding to me... Trophies? Nawh, don't have any, that's a civilian thing... But "ribbons" could be interpreted as the ribbons you are authorized to wear for various awards / medals and if you really look at it, there's quite a few that are kind of a "participation" thing instead of an individual thing. For example, the Sea Service Deployment Ribbon, Meritorious Unit Commendation, Navy "E" (Battle Efficiency) Ribbon, Navy Arctic (or Antarctic) Service Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, and then there are the ones that signify that you served in various war zone (even if you were not directly involved in it) like the ones for Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Kosovo, SW Asia (Iraq), etc. I was a technician in the Navy, so not much chance for heroics... That means that you get the "participation" ribbons... Not much of a compensation for the crappy hours and shitty pay though... I still think that everyone should serve at least one enlistment in the military after getting out of high school... It mellows you out and if you end up in college afterwards, you do better than if you had just went to college straight out of high school... I definitely did better in college after getting out of the Navy than I did before going in...
@@jakeblanton6853 : Ever heard of "lying by omission"? Most employers will ask on their applications if you have ever served in the military. If you did serve and then tried to conceal that fact by not saying you did, then yes, you are guilty of lying by omission.
@@NeoSovrnson -- I'm retired and I do not ever remember an employer asking if I served in the military on their job application forms. But then again, as an engineer, I probably did not go through the same hiring process as a low level worker might go through. Recruiters often contact us directly because they are looking for a particular skill set and someone you previously worked with mentioned your name. My military service, being somewhat related to my subsequent degrees, is listed on my resume, but I could see how someone who was just a cook in the military might not bother to put it on their resume if they had gotten a college degree in engineering after getting out of the military. If the application asked you if you had ever been in the military and you answered no (when you in fact had), that would not be a lie of omission, that would just be a lie. I've seen my share of "creative" resumes over the years on people that were sent by recruiters. Sometimes, it's as simple as a person who says that they attended a university for a certain period of years, but they do not list a degree attained. Sometimes, it is due to just running out of money and they could not complete their degree. I knew a guy who put it that way on his resume. He had completely all the necessary core courses in his degree, but was missing some of the BS courses that did not pertain to his major (History, English, that sort of stuff). I would have not had a problem hiring him because I knew what he was capable of. The same cannot be said for most of the Indian "engineers" whose resume was submitted by the recruiters. They would tailor their resume to the job requirements even if the person had no experience working with anything like that. If you made the mistake of hiring them, then you would find out eventually that they didn't know anything and instead were getting help after hours from their Indian friends. It's part of their culture apparently. Every once in awhile, you would actually get an Indian who was competent and who did not need the help of his Indian friends, but this sort of person was definitely in the minority. At least that was my experience over my career...
A BCD is a result of a court-martial. Almost always, I was able to deal with bad conduct either with Article 15 (nonjudicial punishment) and/or administrative discharge. Everyone I did--dozens--resulted in an honorable discharge, even if the member had committed a court-martial offense. Better to move them along to the next phase of their lives.
I still do it the same way today. The only one I've had that was actually moving to court martial ended when the member decided to take the offered separation in lieu of- smart move. He'd certainly have gone to jail.
Perhaps he's supposed to represent an older Paul. And his nearly obsolete job of delivering telegrams via bicycle represents the dearth of opportunities now available to Paul. All Paul ever has to do is not ever rely on government for anything for the rest of his life, and while plenty see that as a crisis, it is really more of an opportunity, if he rises to the challenge and meets it well.
I served six years of my youth on active duty got discharged and a honorable discharge. now that I’m in my 60s and can use some VA medical help I’m told I make too much money that back in the 1980s after I had done my time in the military they change the rules and I make too much money now. I wish I never spent one day in the military and unlike most I don’t go around saying I loved it it was the greatest time because just like the ones that say that I couldn’t wait to got out and I got out and if they feel that it was the best time in their life why didn’t they stay in. Don’t let the military industrial complex bullshit you there’s no benefit from being in the military.
Bad attitude did him worse than bcd. I don’t think anyone cares about the level of your discharge unless it’s a dishonorable. Most guys with that one did time.
The bad conduct discharge also known in the USMC as the Big Chicken Dinner. The most common discharge I saw other than an Honorable was a less than honorable which allowed you to petition to upgrade that later. But why dick around don’t go for anything but an Honorable Discharge it’s not that hard.
Not a thing in this time. It's only a thing now because these protected classes whined about their fair shake, so bleeding hearts deemed them protected.
@@MomMom4Cubs what's the matter B anass? I know you think the protected class should still be strictly limited to white men but do you still have to cry your little pussy tears about it all the time? You poor cowardly conservatives, your just so afraid of everybody. What a collection of gutless wonders you are.
My Dad always hired people who had been in trouble. BUT, they had to have a good attitude and want to make things right. We never discussed if any were BCD. Remember him saying you could usually get away with more in the military than in civilian life.
Maybe he could find a piece of paper that had the word good on it, then cut it out and glue it over the bad, then he could have said that he was “special “and no one else was really like him.. LoL
Back then and maybe now the question is on the application: Have you ever been convicted of a crime? Did you serve in the military? What kind of discharge did you receive? You have to answer the questions. Someone goes over the application. Blank questions with no response are a red flag. Answer them and lie? You are dead meat if they catch you. It tells them you cant be trusted. I know no one is perfect and no one does the RIGHT thing (however you want to define that) ALL the time. But the system sometimes lump the good with bad sometimes. If an employer extend "mercy" to such a person trying to be fair and compssionate and then something happens, HE will be in the hot seat for hiring such a person. So you are damed either way. No good deed goes unpunished.
Yup - about the 3rd day in boot camp in 1961, I realized that I had made a mistake by enlisting, but toughed it out, knowing what the alternative was. (The draft notice came to my folks home 2 days after I enlisted in the Navy). There is a consequence for every action, and sometimes it keeps your sorry behind out of harms way. Put in my 4 years and got out - used some of my GI benefits for nursing school, and the first 2 houses that my wife and I bought.
I fudged up 9 years in the Marines after the Gulf War as a Sergeant (drunkeness/ conduct unbecoming- Office Hours)! None of my buddies would come by me with a 10 foot pole. Passed over for Staff Sergeant. Told to get out but try to reenlist a year later. Did so, got denied reenlistment, got multitude of benefits. ALL I WANTED WAS THAT HONORABLE DISCHARGE! GOT IT AND GOT THE FUDGE ON WITH LIFE!
@@karl28560 Civvies were a LOT more comfortable to wear anyways ... They also didn't make a target out of you in foreign countries on liberty and especially in the united states
"Oh, Judy, tell Mr. Coleman to save me two quarts of ice cream!" "Jesus Christ, woman, tell Mary, chicken, ice cream, I'm only a little kid, Goddamnit!"
My dad told me that he had an Airman who was a real screw up, but a smart guy, he really could troubleshoot an engine. But he did all kinds of dumb stuff and kept getting into trouble. My dad and the XO sat down and discussed it and they realized that while he was grown up he mentally wasn't over 16. He was getting out in 6 months and had just gotten written up for UA from the mess decks during lunch. They figured they could tell the Captain to just give him 60 days in the brig and he would probably get out or be in for a long time. The skipper said okay and sentenced him to 60 days confinement. Off he went, they thought he was gone. Then one day he was back, all squared away and totally changed. He was never a problem again and he made it out after he did his bad time. He was always on time, squared away, the perfect sailor. He told my dad that after 8 days of the Marines kicking the crap out of him whenever he made a mistake or talked back one day he just got it and realized if he ever wanted to get out he better toe the line.
A BCD from a General Court Martial? It would be interesting to know back story the screen writer had in mind while writing the dialog. Having been an officer in my unit's admin office during one Navy tour, "absent over leave" didn't lead to a GCM with a BCD (unless he stayed gone so long that "absent over leave" turned into "desertion".) A GCM usually led to a dishonorable discharge, not a BCD. Not a happy ending either way. All that said, I like the way the message was conveyed via a story, instead of somebody behind a lectern delivering a lecture.
A story ,short of the enormous guilt even after five + decades...mine was a GD Under Honorable Conditions...but in reality a failure of character...I've had a good life & career but regret is not a strong enough word to describe the self-damage done.
Before all the "candidate background" check companies popped up in the 90s, I wonder if he'd get away with simply saying his discharge was honorable. I don't know about the military, but I do know the mail-order-college-degrees were working up until the mid 90s.
Not with Bad Conduct or Dishonorable. Both require Court-Martial to receive and like all court proceedings, all public record . Anyone can access it. The administrative discharges, unless you're applying for government jobs, first responder jobs, jobs that are held to higher standards than normal civilians, no one will know you were in unless you tell them.
@@chrismc410 I think this may be fairly unique to Americans. For example, unless you were criminally charged while in the armed forces, A Canadian employer/school would never know about your military record (good OR bad) unless you decide to tell them. Military service records aren't part of basic criminal record searches or other public records. Of course, high-security jobs like Law-Enforcement would be a different story, but a DD wouldn't have any impact on applying for education or regular hiring processes. Veterans' benefits would be about the only roadblock. I still have my (honorable) discharge papers from the Navy 26 years later, but no one's ever asked to see them.
Over here, and even back in the day, Bad Conduct and Dishonorable Discharges require Court-Martial proceedings and is therefore public record, anyone can look at the transcript, scrubbed if any classified is involved, the disposition, etc
Knew a guy who wanted out so bad he faked a LSD flashback at sea in the Tonkin Gulf in 1967. He was off our ship and gone, gone, gone within 24 hours. Never heard of him again.
@@lizardprotector Of course, because you've been told your whole life it never did. An America close enough to the one portrayed in old movies to be immediately recognizable as such did in fact exist. In most places (outside of large cities) it didn't die off until the 1970s.
Excellent video presentation. One thing surprised me however. Paul was unaware that by taking the BCD he had forfeited his entitlement to veterans' benefits. including the G.I. loans. I would have thought that his counsel at the court-martial would have advised him of the consequences of his actions before the trial had begun.
This movie short is the concept of life with a BCD. THOSE are the particulars; that point in time when you arrive home and how and who is affected by having a BCD and how your life won't be so great . The objective of Uncle Sam flying this film was to prevent more walkies from checking out and punking the machine.
This was before the comrades were college professors and today when a good portion of public school teachers became like them and a majority either agreed with the crap or were cowered into going along with them🦨
(facetiously speaking) I just love the wardrobe formalities of that era LOL: male adults with a coat and tie; women with hat and gloves; just to travel to the train station.
@Matthew Morrison What you pointed out may illustrate the differences of peoples' behavior from then to now. It has impressed me with the contrasts of dressing attire, in the US, from the 1950s to the present: There seemed to have been a higher level of civility and social restraint back in the era when everyday wear for men had them with coats/ties/slacks; and women with dresses and skirt suits. Is it a coincidence that the 21st century proliferation of unruly people in public coincides with the social acceptance of sloven attire in public?
@@bloqk16 I think there was a lot more window dressing and bullshit hypocrisy, people were no better then than now, just the nicely dressed wealthier sorts could evade censure for their 'sins' by being 'nice people like us'.
Coming from a family that had several members of the military, I knew the importance of an Honorable Discharge. It was in 1974 and going to school on the GI Bill was not all that great, but my service experience came in handy. I’ve seen guys with BCDs and General Discharges and most didn’t do very well. Actually the military treated me better for my experience than civilian life.
I was Honorable Discharge. Proud of it U.S. Navy was the best thing that ever happened to me. I was a Radioman 3rd class. made a man out of me. G.I. Bill VA mortgage etc. My dad had a smile a mile long when i returned home.
You can use the VA loan for a house. What I didn't know was when you paid for a house you can use that loan for a second house. You can go right down the line for rental property. No money down.
Looking back at those guys who got into trouble during my active-duty time I never felt sorry for any of them. They had themselves to blame. In fact, one time I was serving as prisoner escort for a guy in my squadron who was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for theft of government property - smoke grenades and 7.62 rounds. He received a dishonorable discharge was going to be sent to Fort Lewis. During my escort time he admitted to me he was a dumbass and no one to blame but himself. I actually admired him for stating that. Most guys who got Article 15's or worse would bitch and claim they were being screwed over. Those guys were just children failing to hold themselves accountable for their own actions. They got what they deserved.
@PompierCanadien Yeah!! Testify!!!! because Paul was such a bad Sociopath that deserves to be locked up like he raped a child or something .....right ???
I just wish i knew if the guy found some work and learned from his mistake. My heart went out to him when he broke down and cried.i know it could be just from being rejected so many times or deep remorse for his bad decision. Dont know which. I know he is responsible because he chose to do what he did. I still would like to see him get a chance to show he can do the right thing and that because he did that bad thing at that one time in his life he does not deserve to be branded as evil incarnate for the rest of his life.
At the end, poor Paul wanders away, realizing he was only qualified for a life of crime ... or politics.
...which IS crime
He could become a game show host, then rouse the rabble and get himself elected President.
Those are one and the same... OL J R :)
He could sell pillows
He can join a union. He can drive a truck, be a bricklayer, work in a grocery store, warehouse, operate a forklift.
I worked with people who had bad conduct discharge. They are like everyone else. If I were a hiring manager, I would give him a job no questions asked. The guy from the VA he is wrong, don't judge a book by its cover and getting a job is as easy as buying a hot dog at your friendly, neighborhood 7-eleven.
I made out okay with a BCD, in fact I just got a promotion. My employer now provides gloves for me to use when replacing the urinal cakes in public restrooms.
Urinal cakes! Now I know what those are!
Is that during normal banking hours or after the bar closes at 2 am. Lol.
#Sean Hahn some would suggest that it is a promotion to get a job like that coming out of the service.. GO SEIU
SEAN HAHN Did you at least get the VA to give you an "Honorable for VA Purposes" status?
Gloves! I gotta ask for those. Maybe for my 10th Anniversary scooping out the clogged toilets. Anyway, my BCD made me what I am today.
The old steam locomotive is Grand Trunk Western 5627, an American Locomotive Company 4-6-2 series K-4-a.
How did you get the locomotive number? The number boards look blank and it's hard to see the number on the side of the cab. Where was the train station?
@@dalecomer5951 // At the 5:01 mark the number boards can be seen just as the train passes out of the camera view. At 5:30 the GTW emblem can be seen on a passenger car. As far as depot location, I believe the GTW passenger main line ran from MI, IL, IN, and WI (and beyond). I would imagine it was filmed somewhere close to Chicago just for the feasibility factor, but that's just a guess.
@@m20j_pilot48 Thanks.
Bobby Baccalieri over here
I love in MI and my uncle worked for the Grand Trunk before it was sold to C.SX
My beagle got a Bad Conduct Discharge from obedience school and has been a worthless freeloader ever since.
And his punishment has been kisses and hugs and belly scratches ever since.
No college or on the job training pay for that beagle (sigh). Doomed to a life of napping, long walks, chasing tennis balls, and free food / housing. If only that dog had seen this 1950's DOD educational film.
That's ruff...
beagles are just too damn noisy , unless you be huntin bunnies, build it a soundproof cage with 24/7 classical music
LOL
"Mary" is Ellen Burstyn. Born the end of 1932, she'd be 21 for this training film.
great catch. yes what a stunner.
And you know this how ??
@@williamjones6053 it's kind of obvious.
@@williamjones6053 know that she's Ellen Burstyn? He recognized her. Know when she was born? Wikipedia, of course. But you knew that, because you aren't that dense, right?
THANK YOU, I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO SHE WAS, BECAUSE I THOUGHT I RECOGNIZED HER, BUT COULD NOT PLACE HER❗❗❗ IN HER PRIME SHE WAS A LOOKER❗❗👌👌👍👍✔✔👀👀 NOW I CAN SLEEP TONIGHT😁😁😁
BCD is known as a Big Chicken Dinner and that is what mom served. Do you think she knew?
I believe that I watched this film in Boot Camp....but the funny thing is that after I got back from Vietnam no one ever cared about or even wanted to see my Honorable Discharge other than when I joined The VFW....but I was occasionally berated at job interviews for my service in Vietnam and for wasting my time in the service insted of gaining valuable experience in the workforce...
And when I applied for and got a job with The State all that they wanted to know that I was a Vet because they told me that they got money from the Feds for hiring me...They didn't care at all about my discharge status..
Thank you for your service sir!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 I tell these young kids to use common sense and don't panic about the Corona Virus. You guys who served in Vietnam went through hell but survived. They couldn't live one month in Nam. You guys served a tour of duty because you had to. No cell phones , no facebook or streaming video. I tell these kids my generation had to "duck and cover" in school (1967-73) and it didn't affect us.
@Uncle Ruckus Well there was historically a time when things like this mattered to people...Like right after WWII.....but time has gone by and attitudes changed...Jane Fonda disgraced herself as a traitor and all of america saw it and knew it ...and Ho -Hum...I finally realized that I had a better chance in a job interview ...if I didn't tell them that I was a VET!...I even had one personal Manager...(A motherly middle aged woman )...Tell me that while I was wasting my time in the service ..other applicants were gaining valuable work experience!
A belated thank you.
@@stevebell4906 Richard Nixon prolong the war by talking to the South Vietnamese president. The real traders are all the people that lied the Gulf of Tonkin incident
Read this, and it was deja vu time. I experienced the same thing, more or less. Except I joined the American Legion and the Navy Club, instead of the VFW. I got a job with the Illinois Dept of Mental Health.
I was discharged in 1972, I would have been better off telling people I had been in prison. Good papers meant nothing to employers and it seemed like they would hire anyone before a Vietnam Veteran. I still have trouble understanding what happened.
I got out later, but I never encountered any of that stuff or knew anyone else who had at any place I worked. Maybe because I worked at a lot of aerospace firms who were doing military contracts and as such, they hired a lot of us vets. They were great places to work -- even the female managers cussed like sailors... :)
Your reply was enlightening, in 1980 I was hired by Hercules Aerospace. Worked for 3 1/2 years and haven't had any trouble staying employed right up to retirement.
I ETS'd in early '73 (Northern California). Being a vet put you in the same league as a leper. FAQ in job interviews: how many people did you kill? How was the dope? Do you still have access to the PX? One recruiter had the gall to tell me to roll up my sleeves, so he could check for track marks.
I lucked out and landed a job in Wyoming.
@@billgund4532 A friend of mine served as an Army Officer 4 years active duty (Armor branch). He told me about a job interview the 'character' who interviewed him of course asked him what had he been doing. So my friend explained, the 'character' behind the desk who probably looked like the Pillsbury Dough Boy said well 'that a little better than reform school' have you done anything else?
rpm12091 sorry to hear that, it is just wrong. I tip my hat to you! 🎖
Thanks Periscope. I was thinking about 'stretching my wings' al till I got a good stiff look at Leavenworth from the outside while on a deuce-and-a-half driving detail. I was the finest guy you ever saw after that. Yet and still. I think my Lord gave me a little look of where I might go. I'll always be grateful.
gag
i served my time in the U.S. Navy It was an honor to serve my country as my father did. Being a Veteran also came with many benefits. Ill always remember the smile on my dad's face when i graduated from Navy Boot Camp. He told me how proud he was of me. I remember that day and those words all these years later.
My black dad upon discharge wasn't afforded the same VA benefits as you ....Why?
Sounds like you spent much of your young life trying to please others, especially daddy....I too served a hitch in the Navy, and felt some sense of honor in doing so...but I also began to realize that the country I was serving, was engaging in a dishonorable war-Viet-Nam. So I think much of this film is just propaganda, brainwashing many of us into thinking we should blindly sign up for a duty, that might be questionable....as for what happens aftrer a questionable discharge from the service...well, Jimi Hendrix was discharged for being "UNSUITABLE', after a year in the Army...then he went on to become the greatest electric Rock guitarist of his day...the real consequences of a negative military career are quite minimal for most people.
@@dwightpowell6673 your a liar
@@curbozerboomer1773 Of course it's a propaganda film.
@@dwightpowell6673 well he needed to apply for benefits unless he received a dishonorable discharge. Otherwise he gets the same benefits as everyone else does.
When I worked with army records, whenever a soldier was about to be discharged for a less than honorable discharge, he/she had to sign a certain form. The form advised the soon to be discharged soldier that he/she would lose most if not all VA benefits.
In this video, Paul stated that he only knew that he could not go to college. He should have known that he couldn’t get any benefits with a BCD even before he left the brig.
How about a 'General Discharge'? A guy I used to work with told me he got a general discharge. I didn't see the document, though, so not sure about that.
He would have known that, they make sure that they tell you that when you get a BCD. I had two of my guys that got BCD's in a year. They just hated the Navy. they were always apologetic for getting in trouble and making my life hard. I tried to tell them again and again that they better really think about it, because a lot of companies that have government contracts will never hire them.
Four months left and he BCD’d. Gifted intellect.
wfdix1 B”C?” D. What’s the C?
wfdix1 oh wait. I got it.
I have seen that crap happen. Young, dumb, and full of sh@t. Like the part about being smarter than everybody else. I know it’s a government movie; but writing a script for this wouldn’t be fictional.
Wow. I had to edit this because I said non fictional instead of fictional. Derrrp.
The Big Chicken Dinner.
@@Stuff_happens Me too one of my best friends got a bad discharge from the Coast Guard because he couldn't stop drinking.
Choices always have consequences. Unfortunately many people don't consider the consequences when they make choices, and they probably don't know how far reaching their choices can be. A Bad Conduct Discharge or choosing the wrong person to marry or spending unwisely are probably the most life changing choices anyone can make and the consequences can be irreversible.
pyromedichd1 is there really a right person to marry?
@@seka1986 I honestly can say I hit the jackpot and found the right person to marry. The first wife was a really bad choice on my part, my current wife is a charm and I'm sure she'll stay that way because I've known her for 40 years.
@@pyromedichd1
Glad you're happy. Maybe I'll reverse my poor choice, but maybe it's, as you succinctly explain, irreversible.
@@rudolphguarnacci197 Marriage isn't irreversible, there's always divorce, but that has consequences too. Once again choice plays a role. Stay married and miserable or divorce and suffer financial ruin, and possibly more. My divorce was very costly but staying with the ex would have cost much more, perhaps even my life. I divorced and rebuilt. There as a great deal of pain involved and that's what was intended by the ex. She did her best to make it painful in every way, attempts at career destruction, false accusations of domestic violence, arrests, reputation destruction. She was a Narcissist. I wish I had known enough to recognize that before I married her. It was an expensive, painful lesson. Based upon my experience I would advise anyone contemplating divorce, once the decision has been made, plan ahead for a place to stay and just leave and disappear. Always have a witness to your whereabouts during the divorce so false accusations can't stick, NEVER talk to police if questioned until you've received legal counsel. Stay away from the ex wife to be and do not talk with her at all, ever..
@@rudolphguarnacci197 For every divorce, there is another couple that should be divorced...but many folks will stick with a mediocre relationship, fearing that they cannot do better, or just assuming that all relationships eventually suck, so what the Hell, might as well keep this thing going.Either way, marriage is mostly a bad thing!
Bad paper. Three and a half years as a Personelman in the mid 70’s. Never discharged anybody with a BCD. I processed some General Discharges. Court Martial. Most of the time a command would try everything to avoid that level of punishment. Not any easy accomplishment to earn yourself that kind of paper.
Agreed. Only a General Court Martial can issue a BCD, and it is upgradable.
what about theft or cowardice,
Western Union bike messenger. I do recall seeing a few when I was a kid in 1954, the year of this film, but they were rapidly fading away. This is a rare Jam Handy film produced for the armed forces after WWII. They almost always produced their own films before the war, but the volume of training films needed for the rapidly expanding armed forces meant outside help was needed. Jam Handy produced about 7,000 films for the armed forces during the war. His major commercial work was for the auto industry from the 40's to 70's where he produced another 3,000 films. He was a Detroit native, and his studio was located there. The area around Detroit appears to the filming locale, at least for the train sequence, since the it was a Grand Trunk Western passenger train, one of the few roads still running steam passenger trains in 1954.
Interesting information Sar. Thanks.
Beautiful homes, beautiful town.
@@rudolphguarnacci197 Yes, it was, before the Mad Max collapse occured. There are still some nice areas like Boston-Edison, Rosedale Park, and Palmer Woods, but you have to be willing to pay for your own street lights, hire your own security patrols, send your kids to private schools, but still pay a huge amount in property taxes. After all that, you are still living in a city that's losing population, provides very few services, and your home will generally be within a quarter mile of some of the worst slums in the country.
Nice commentary Thanks for the insights
Ellen Burstyn was from Detroit . I guess that why she is participating in this as a young woman .
Those BCDs and Dishonorable Discharges can ruin your life. No vet benefits, nobody wants to hire you, and most people don't want to have anything to do with you. My ex brother-in-law pulled a few stunts in the Army. He spent his last 90 days in jail. He got a Dishonorable Discharge. It's been all downhill from there.
How long ago was that ?? 60 years or so ago ?
@@evergriven7402 He was kicked out of the Army in 1991.
Not saying a BCD is a good thing but my honorable discharge failed to offer me my medical benefits that I had counted on. Was promised but only got part of them by writing to a congressman. The VA started listening after the senator sent them an inquiry form of some sort. I received a bare minimum benefit package but mostly got screwed and the treatment I got left me without the use of one lung due to a botched heart surgery and no hope of being seen by a person who could fix me. My back surgery had similar results. Regardless of what people say about how great the VA is, they are under funded and gave me sub standard treatment. I was told there was a procedure available to rich people at the Mayo Clinic to fix my lung malfunction but that I wasn’t going to get it.
@@Newtire It's disgraceful that veterans have to fight so hard to get the bare minimum, if that.
Very true. You could have spent 99% of your hitch as the best man in your squadron or platoon to screwing up and BCD is all that’s remembered
Welp, on to the next town where they don't know you and you can become a drunk.
Or buy a guitar and become a 50's rock legend.
Schmaltzy the Golem
The second thing I got out of this video is "if you're going to receive something lower than a general discharge, make sure you don't live somewhere where everyone knows your name."
@@GOFLuvr He can go to The FBI and get a new name through the witness protection program
Unfortunately it happens, thank God not me.
you can wear a dress and get a job with the government.
Exactly what I do. Sit down for a job interview and light up a smoke.
You're hired!
you forgot to put your feet up on the employers desk ( that shows confidence without being arrogant )
@@evergriven7402 Ya, also grab the picture of his family and say "look at the knockers on her! You must be proud.. and your wife ain't bad either." It shows him your 'one of the boys.'
Other favorites included, "whoa, soo a... You guys swingers?"
Always finish up with asking if his daughter is dating yet.
I pack a bowl and puff puff pass
Yeah, I know, but it was a different time back then. Smoking was not frowned upon as it is today. I'm surprised the boss didn't light it for him.
That kid's voice could break glass.
Four months, Paul. FOUR MONTHS! You only had four months to go. Talk about short sighted. I'm glad Mary saw through your paper-thin disguise.
@INERTWas it an "honorable" or "other than Honorable" discharge???
@@evergriven7402 A BCD is other than honorable. A general discharge can be with honorable or less than honorable conditions.
@@946towguy2 it’s a bad conduct discharge. It is far from a honorable discharge. It is equivalent to a dishonorable discharge. I doubt that it means much nowadays. People would not care if they received a bad discharge. If they were to reinstate the draft I bet there would be a lot of them.
@@JohnDavis-yz9nq You are replying to wrong person. Talk to @INERT.
Think he did some time in the brig/jail, so he probably had a lot more time to go when he committed his offenses.
Whoa. The pendulum on the clock is really snapping back and forth... Must be marking the passage of time in nanoseconds.
Escapement says hold my beer
My dad told me "come home with anything less than an honorable , don't come at all ". And he ment business. And I got my honorable. Dad helped get my foot in the door at the local steel mill.
Respect to you AND him
@Crown Commando - Perhaps he wouldn't have been that hard assed to consider the circumstances. A medical discharge doesn't mean you were permanently injured or disabled under less than honorable conditions. You think every vet of WWII who came home minus a body part was treated as if he did something less than honorable?
My father was a WW 2 veteran, joined the USMC in 1939.
He used to tell us about it many years later -- He was on guard duty one day guarding 2 fellows who were in the brig.
I will always remember his description of the kind of guys they were, total losers.
Dad said a BCD was a badge of shame.
He also mentioned that a man who contracted VD while in the service would get medical treatment, but would also be disciplined for negligence. I don't know if it was true or perhaps gossip.
Dad was proud to be one of the few and served in the Pacific theatre in the Solomon and Russell Islands. He was wounded there and received a medical (honorable) discharge in 1944.
The Greatest Generation is fading away.
They are dearly missed.
@@OceanSwimmer - Yes, that is true. According to sources of the times, (and I can find it on TH-cam if need be) contracting VD would remove you from being able to perform every possible normal type of duty, limiting you to only certain kinds of duty for a certain length of time. While this was the case, you were disciplined for "damaging government property" and the time lost to regular duty could actually be tacked on to the end of your enlistment so that the government got the full use of your contracted services to the military. The movie in question, concerned the Navy, and duty aboard ships, which also showed the "special accomodation" afforded sailors in such a condition.
Before it was proven that VD could *NOT* be contracted by sitting on dirty toilet seats, there was a special one provided to sailors with VD, during their course of treatment, that only they could use so as not to spread it around to other shipmates. It was in a corner, and made of brilliant scarlet red materials. Making it the "Seat of Shame" more or less. (Yes, they showed the whole layout.)
Seems rather counterintuitive to me, though. IF it could actually be spread in such a manner, wouldn't that actually involve reinfecting themselves by continually using the same seat like that? I mean, spreading it around to the other guys by *not* containing the spread (by limiting contact to one place) would *ALSO* not be a good idea. But, if you were supposed to be able to spread it that way, why would you want the infected individual to continually reinfect himself? Kind of makes ones head spin, doesn't it?🤔?
@Crown Commando Medical is still honorable.
".....and so, I put the past behind me. I figured that, one day, I'd come back to my family and hometown- and........-and start over again. Clean.....fresh.......with honor. But I had a long way to go before that could ever happen. I climbed on the train, and headed towards San Francisco. A old friend of mine offered me a job in his agency. He said I'd know the difference between right and wrong- and maybe a few lumps would toughen me up in the process. And that's how I became PAUL ELTON- PRIVATE DETECTIVE."
Well done! Sounds like material for Radio Classics. Best to all.
Thanks. That's what the ending suggested to me.
I think it would have been cool if the next seen, he picks up the phone and asks his greaser friend to play drums a rockabilly band and that he'd written some tunes in the brig.
A BCD doesn’t necessarily ruin your life, it just closes a lot of doors. Kind of like a felony conviction.
A hero's welcome for a washout. Military isn't for everyone, too bad recruiters lie through their teeth to get young people to sign that contract. My company in boot camp went from 92 recruits to 36 in 13 weeks. When I went in you really had to want to be there. Fortunately I really wanted to be there, but after 4 years active and 2 years of reserves it was time to get out. My honorable discharge opened doors for me, and today at 67 years old I have had free Health Insurance for close to 45 years. No regrets... The reality is, a person once out in the fleet, had to work really hard to get a BCD or DD. But in Boot Camp the US Navy simply didn't want you if you would quit. And the ones that got booted in my company in boot camp all had one thing in common, they quit.
Buster...Knew a guy, after we were both civilians again, who was assigned to the tool crib in his squadron. He was there because he wasn't reliable enough to be assigned to a shop or go on det. He lived his life along the same lines and never saw the light. He never once looked inward. Very sad.
I went through marine corps boot camp. I was out after two weeks, The captain of the company sent me to Balboa Park Navy Hospital for three days. I was given a room, three meals a day, a TV to watch what I want. I was extensively interviewed by a United States Navy psychiatrist and a psychologist and after the interviews, I was given a medical discharge. A man commander Billingsley active duty and a psychologist Commander Wilcox and two others who did the interview told me "I was not suitable for service". I was then given $500, a new pair of clothes, and a one way ticket back to Oakland, California on a United Airlines Boeing 737-200 out of Lindbergh Field. I told him I was not suitable before shipping out. To get his "brownie" points. He had to go to the school to obtain my signature.
@@frankdenardo8684 You must be very proud.
@Bones McGillicuddy I live on my own I have a girlfriend who is an army veteran. She is a few years older than me.
I remember an old Camel filters cigarette ad that says "Camel filters are not for everybody, but then again they don't tend to be". I have a job and make very good money. I was not elegible for disabtility. The Navy psychiatrist and psychologist told me I was not suitable for service.
I was approached of the idea by one recruiter but he kind of lost interest in me. Another recruiter contacted me but I told him what happened. I did not pass the ASVAB test, anyone who did not pass often would be dropped. But the new recruiter was going to get me in but would give me some mickey mouse job I was not going to take. He took me to MEPS for a physical exam. I tried to fail the hearing test and the psychiatrist interview. He called and told me I passed. After graduation from high school. I was shipped off in August. In receiving, they did another exam and I was "red flagged" in layman's terms, subject further examination. The drill instructor pulled me off and it was not discovered until two weeks into training. I don't know how many the platoon had, but I was one of several "singled out" to be out of the corps. Some where thrown out for fraudulent enlistment and like me, medical issues. The company Commander sent to Balboa hospital and after about five days. I was released for medical reasons. In the end I did thank the doctors who interviewed me and that signed off on my release.
@@nhot2132 Let's just say, I am lucky. The so called "crucible" was what will make a person a marine.
I did not have to go through that. Week two I was instructed by Captain Welsh who was the company Commander and he told me "we are going to send you to Balboa Navy hospital for an evaluation". I was sent there, I was given a private room, with a bed and chair, table, and a TV, the TV I can watch anything I want. IE old movies, game shows, reruns of old TV shows, educational. I was interviewed by two Navy psychiatrists and two Navy psychologists. After extensive interviews, I was told that I will be discharged from the corps do to unsuitability. I was given $500, a new pair of "civvies" lingo for civilian clothes, and a one way ticket from San Diego to Oakland on a United airlines Boeing 737-200. I have a job but I look back and say after these wars we went through. I am lucky to be alive, god bless.
I remember when I was in basic training. (1977)
One of the lectures we had the D.I. explained about general and dishonorable discharges.
He said that normally they sent a press release to the soldiers home town newspaper.
It got our attention.
John Q. Customer. We saw the same at Parris Island back in 64. Semper Fi.
I am a paralegal for a military attorney and as I remember General discharges don’t get published. I know DDs and BCD get published or at least used to.
Besides a general under honorable isn’t bad - it’s easier to get upgraded to a honorable as long as it is with good reason. The downside to getting a general discharge is you may not get all or any of your benefits.
Any punitive discharge by court martial can really screw your life up bad. You don’t have prayer in hell getting it upgraded though - unless you can show proof you didn’t deserve one. I tell those people they should go into politics.
Originally I was in the Navy as a Sea Bee back in the late 50s. I was acquainted with a fellow from Denver who did not control his desires and ended up getting STDs at least a half dozen times and ended up with a BCD. He was the sort that didn't care about anyone but himself. His record followed him everywhere.
STDs? That really was a dishonourable discharge!
@@tomhaskett5161 He refused to take precautions and he was treated for several different STDs and the Navy finally gave him a BCD, not a Dishonorable Discharge. I think he told me he got these more than 10 times but I cannot remember that specifically. He ended up dying a number of years ago from several cancers and admitted to me that at least one of them was attributed to one of the STDs.
The most dishonorable discharge was from his wiener
Obviously paul isn’t the only one who’s done dumb things. If I had a buck for every dumb thing I’ve ever done, I’d be filthy rich! (I’ve never been in the service.)
During that time, it was easy to alter or fabricate records. It could make it easier to obtain a local job but never apply for VA benefits.
You're Caucasian you obviously have no fear good for you.
@@dwightpowell6673 ✊🏻
I always heard you HAVE TO LIE....
AND IF YOU DIDN'T THAT'S WHY YOU DIDN'T GET HIRED.....
hell, you can fudge VA records nowadays. people get away with it all the time. they're always catching people who've been doing stolen valor and getting veteran benefits for years, sometimes decades.
once you've gotten away with it for awhile, nobody thinks or cares to double check. Don Shipley nails these guys all the time, dudes who've been scamming the VA...sometimes since the Vietnam era.
my friend Amy is an Army veteran, served 12 years and now works for the VA, she's always complaining about people with shady information getting benefits...but most of the time they just pass them along, because there's just no time or resources to do deep research. or the Army, Navy, Marines, etc, never bother doing an investigation. they don't even return phone calls or emails.
she says that right now, she personally knows of at least 3-4 people who've been fudging their service records for over 10 years, and she's reported them over and over...nobody does anything.
it's like nobody wants to find out, because it might expose serious flaws--or maybe even crimes--happening inside the VA at higher levels.
The key to a successful military career - stay focused on your job, stay away from others who you know are nothing but trouble, and think twice before you do something that you think may be illegal. Worked for me. 21 years with a pension and an honorable discharge!
Same.
Uncle served 28 years with full pension. Went to work for the Post office and worked almost as long got a second full pension. Then opened a profitable little online business for fun. My aunt taught school till she got a full pension. They are practically rich. Their work paid off their nice house as well.
@@poetcomic1 that’s good! It seems many of my civilian friends and family members comment “must be nice!” When they know I receive a pension; and my response to them is: “yes, it is!”. We all choose our vocations in life, some will make more money than others, but it’s your decision where you work or what you do.
@@Mark-yy2py yep same with govt/fed service - you may make less money,but that pension and the benefits and time off are great
@@user-bn5df6hl1d I think it a good trade off, between a higher salary, but subject to termination with little or no notice; or a lower salary, but a decent paycheck, a generous benefit package and job security 😁
Back in those days, Paul could have said "Yep, HONORABLE DISCHARGE!" And it would have taken years to notice a mistake.
You needed the official paper and it is quite official looking.
They asked for his papers, though, how could he forge those?
@Bones McGillicuddy The dd214 at least into the 1990's was very easy to fake, since it was a quadruplicate form typed on a typewriter or an impact printer. Before the internet, most employers wouldn't have bothered to verify one unless it was required for funding a program.
@Bones McGillicuddy Depends on the job....but you sure as hell arent getting into law enforcement or anything that requires a security clearance or background check.
@Bones McGillicuddy In the 1950's through 1990's just about any print shop could make a blank form. Blank forms could also be stolen by an admin clerk.
Military recruiters and the career counselors often do the bait and switch. At the home town recruiting office, the applicant is shown all the different jobs that the service has. But once at the MEPPS, the applicant is told that there are no openings in the MOS he’s interested in but there are openings In other MOSs. The pitch would be” be a real soldier and go infantry or how about being a cook?” The applicant gets suckered into an MOS he doesn’t perform well in when he could have made a good medic or aircraft mechanic. The new soldier gets dejected and either gets an administrative discharge or when asked to REUP, he accepts discharge, even if he’s offered the MOS he first was interested in.
A good service member, disappointed in the way the military works, goes back to civilian life.
That's exactly what happened to me. Wanted combat medic was told 'no openings' did cannon fodder combat engineers.
Hmmmm....interesting. I wonder era you guys are talking about. The reason being is I took the ASVAB back in 86 and was given a list of jobs I could do based on my score. I made my decision and was given that job.
Everyone I went through bootcamp with went to their respective school they chose for which they scored high enough to get.
That's how it has worked for at least that long. You guys must be talking about the Vietnam era or something huh?
@@Sickofsociety1
It WAS Vietnam Era. And that's what happened to me and a lot of others. But I still got my Honorable. U.S. Navy.
'73 >'77
I reminded of the movie "Private Benjamin," where the Judy Benjamin character was told by the recruiter of the marvelous time to be had in the US Army with travel and lodging accommodations. Gee! She was sure in for a surprise when reality set in.
That is how I got talked out of signing up in the late 1980's. A few Vietnam vets who never met each other shared their exact same experiences with this happening. "I was told my job would be X by the recruiter, but after I signed I learned there was no opening and I would have to chose something else." I was told that, by my time, they stopped doing that. But, who would I believe- the recruiter with the incentive to lie or the multiple vets who went through it themselves ?
4 years. No more. No less. Had a rough time. But I stuck it out. Got that Honorable DD214. Never looked back.
🤯
26 years in the Army. Retired in 1998.
Depends upon when you were in... I can remember a lot of different enlistment options on the years in the Navy... Usually a combination of years of active service, combined with years of active reserve or years of inactive reserve... I can remember 2, 3, 4, and 6 year active enlistments with various lengths of active or inactive reserve. I think it depended upon your scores on the ASVAB test, the field you went into, how desperate the Navy was for people in that field, and probably how good you could negotiate with the recruiter. :) But it has been quite a few decades and my memory is a bit fuzzy on some things... Things like what I had for supper tonight... :( Getting old sucks...
Sir Kit Braker Best 4 years I had in my entire life:64-68. Would do it over in a heart beat.
The military is not 4 everybody. I got out with the honorable discharge. That's all that matters 2 me. 🙈🙉🙊 🙂 Keep on truckin...
@@sfdanceron1 supply clerk?
When I served in the Navy 1970 -73 a couple of guys in our division just wanted out so they purposely got caught with pot. The penalty then was 30 days in the brig followed by a dishonorable discharge.
When I was in the Navy '79-83, pot use was almost treated like a joke. We had guys that got popped 3 or 4 times for weed, got the standard "award" (1/2 month's pay for 2 months, 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, reduction in rate by one grade), and went on with their tours.
The best sequence in the whole picture is the tricycle kick and the little girl running out at the end. It's totally French New Wave and fraught with meaning.
Three years on a carrier flight deck. Was it rough? You bet. Very exciting stuff for a 19 year old kid in 1976 and I was handed an honorable discharge for my service. Lots of guys got fed up and took the "easy" early way out but not having that honorable will follow you the rest of your life.
@atomic3939 Depends on the person hiring and the company. But it is a little less of a problem now.
BS!! You can have medical discharges and General under honorable and you can do just fine. It's punitive discharges like dishonorable and bad conduct that will screw you over.
Say what you will. That era far surpasses the current one. The streets were clean, people dressed well, you could send your child to the store without fear, the locomotives were insanely cool, and a million other reasons.
I agree 200%
Sounds like you have Old World Blues.
Everything that counted was just as screwed up; everyone just seems to have selective memory. Some absolutely horrible, extremely high-profile historical events happened in the 1950s.
The perfection you see was usually a paper-thin facade people kept up, despite everyone knowing it was a lie. The same things we have happen today happened then, but simply weren't spoken of. And there was so much *empty ceremony.*
Frankly, I find the whole pantomime absurd, wasteful, and detrimental to addressing any issues there were. Did you notice how tense the dining room got when Paul announced he wasn't going along with everyone's expectations? This despite the facts that for all they knew he was a hero fresh out of a metal-storm hell, and his decision would put no burden whatsoever on them? _Social status_ seemed clearly the motivation for most who wanted Paul to go through a lot of grueling study and become a lawyer.
you're talking about being white and well-off, or middle-class. what about being black or brown back then? we still had Jim Crow laws. segregation. voter suppression. the Klan. lynchings. widespread institutional racism. women being openly harassed in public and in the workplace.
this was the same time as Japanese, Italian, and German internment camps here in the "land of the free". american citizens taken from their homes and imprisoned. completely innocent people dragged away, exactly the same thing the Nazis were doing in Europe. some of these people weren't released until the early 1950s.
there weren't even marital rape laws until the late 1970s. it wasn't universal settled law until 1993. think about that for a minute. marital rape was treated DIFFERENTLY from other rape cases.
people being well-dressed doesn't count for anything when your fellow citizens are being treated like prisoners in a concentration camp all over your nation.
as for it being safe, yes, the 1940s-50s were a very safe time. there was low violent crime, but you know what? NOWADAYS our violent crime is just the same as the 1950s. look at the violent crime statistics--2021 is just as safe as the 1950s.
i grew up in the 80s-90s, and man, THAT was a hell of a dangerous time to live through. terrible crime, the reemergence of drug epidemics like heroin and crack, the huge rise of street gangs, the beginning of mass incarceration...
thankfully, today's world is much safer than the 80s-90s.
the post-war era and 1950s were a bubble. it seemed great, but look what happened in the late 60s and 70s--the Rust Belt, because all that artificial boom died, and they couldn't sustain their workforce.
so yeah, things LOOKED better back then. but in so many ways, america was rotten to the core. and in many ways, it still is.
We're safer than ever before, but we're more well informed than ever before too, we consume a lot more news on a daily basis and as news is usually negative by its nature it influences our perception of the world and our society thus. Now if our worries are justified or not is a seperate discussion.
Jerry R might need a cognitive study. Selective memory is a sign of developing dementia and other deleterious cognitive affectations. My grandfather had Alzheimer’s. In the beginning, he remembered a similar utopian lifestyle, one that his beloved wife, my grandmother, knew simply didn’t exist. She was a compassionate lady, a brilliant conversationalist who learned long ago that times don’t change as much as memories do.
I know this film was trying to make a point, but what the VA representative didn't mention is that the VA has a status for people who have received BCD's as "Honorable for VA Purposes." Former servicemembers who have received this special status by the VA are still denied VA healthcare if they were BCD'ed, but alas, anything is better than a dishonorable discharge.
Remember this film was made in the 50s, maybe earlier.
@@Jaxsolo We are saying people with BCDs can still get bennies.
"Paul, Paul! Where are you going? Now, come inside! I've made a delicious BIG CHICKEN DINNER for you!"
"Winner winner chicken din......a WHAT?!? A BCD"?
The one meal A service member doesn't look forward to.
@@BELCAN57 Shit-on-a-shingle. Those were the days my friend, we'd thought they'd never end.
At least it's not Duck Dinner....not much worse but still....
I like the messenger. He didn’t give a shit, just wanted the mother to shut up.
Quite fitting, that his post BCD meal, was a big chicken dinner.
The BCD come with or w/o biscuits......brig time.
Quite fitting......the navy sucks it big time
@@frankhenry587 Schizer Militair!
Better than creamed chipped beef on toast, otherwise known as Shit On The Shingle!
Reminds me a little of an episode of the Twilight Zone!
Remember when a BCD or DD made you virtually unemployable? Employers were mostly veterans and understood how easy it was to get either an Honorable Discharge.
when was that the 40s??
@@evergriven7402 it still does make you unemployable. The only people I've seen overcome BCD and DDs were dual nationals of third world countries who went back to the country of birth or the other country that was not the United States. They had no chance of a life here so had no choice but to go there and try to make life as best they can there. Most didn't have what most Americans would consider a good life but most had their own homes, a job they wouldn't have otherwise and surviving far better than they would otherwise. Employers there had no problem exploiting them. No chance of them leaving, would work that much harder knowing they had no choice but to accept as there was nothing better for them as BCD and DD would not only follow them in the U.S. but most Anglophone countries like Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The best he could hope for is going to France and joining the French Foreign Legion. If he survives the five year contract he can get French citizenship but he can never again set foot on American soil if he wants a future. France is nice but it is not the United States and theee idifferences enough between the two cultures will never adapt to or in his heart of hearts will never accept.
@@chrismc410 not to mention Paul could and should have lied about discharge character and not pursued any VA benefits back in the 50s.. He would have been OK ... as long he stayed away from Police or any govt job and maybe thats why a lot did make it because This film assumes that someone that is Immoral enough to do the shit he did to get his "Easy Out" out would still be moral enough to tell the truth on an employment application where it was next to impossible to verify in the private sector
When I got out of the Navy in 79 with an honorable discharge, nobody asked for my DD-214.... of course pumping gas at a Union 76 station and being a custodian for the school system did not require a high-clearance level like maybe a government job?
@Bones McGillicuddy huh. I live in San Diego and separated 6 years ago but not one place has asked for my DD-214. I have five official copies but even for being the largest major city with a huge vet population, it's not a big deal.
Gotta love that the draft was not for everyone, but at least back then the US military had a good way to take care of those who did not want to learn to conform with rules & reg's and the ways of military life. Life was soo much simpler back in the day.
I dispute your latter claim. But yeah: Paul's showing such a bad attitude, most of the disciplinary action he complained about was probably well-earned. And he almost seems like a narcissist; to him it's all about what _he_ wanted _then,_ which makes everything he did right.
Wanting to get out and even fouling up on purpose to do it can be one thing. Staying casual and dismissive about such wartime conduct in the face of such obvious and dangerously-escalating social disapproval... *during the 1950s?* That's clueless, arrogant, and stupid.
they drafted people who didn't want to be there and could be troublemakers, then expected them to behave like honor students once they were in?
inevitably flawed system. we're all so much better off without it.
@@roflmows Absolutely.
Being a telegram boy at his age would make me indifferent too.
Underrated comment
LMAO
Bruh, he's seen this so many times now and is just over it 😂
no tip
He ain't no boy. Looks about 40 to me.
In 'Easy Out II' Paul moves to Greenwich Village and tries to write beat poetry, but dies of a smack overdose
Nah he went to college, smoked a lot of weed and dropped too much acid, and now he's a tenured department chair in humanities and political science at a major university, indoctrinating the younger generation on the evils of capitalism and western civilization while supporting every wacko liberal cause that comes out. Later! OL J R :)
Also, a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable discharge is usually the result of a single incident that is criminal in nature.
Dishonorable discharges and Bad Conduct Discharges are what are known as punitive discharges. They're only given out in a Courts Martial.
Correct
I know when my son is supposed to be discharged. If he came home before that, my first question would be *why?*
His answer will be it sucked.
@@highsecurityagent8778 suck or not is irrelevant.
@@RonJohn63 I was just being humorous, but irrelevant or not something went wrong or something happened that would cause him and the service to part ways. Like the saying goes in many languages (shit happens). Thank you for responding.
I am glad to have my DD214 with pride after 23 years of service!!!
Me too 21 years.
Back in my day, I knew some guys who made E-7 in 7 years because they were a certain specialty which required a lot of training and many people in that specialty would get out after they had completed their 6-year commitment. I also met people who were in specialties which did not have much turnover (i.e. you basically had to wait for someone to retire or die in order to make rank) and they might retire after 20 as only an E-5 or E-6. Back then, if you retired at 20, you got 50% of your base pay and if you stuck it out to 30, you got 75%. I haven't kept up with it since then, so I don't know how they structure it these days.
THANK YOU for that service!
Thank you, Veterans who served with honor!
God bless you always.
20 years equals 50%
He should have moved to Canada. The employers up there would think a BCD was a university degree.
"US Military service and a BCD eh? Its aboot time we had a person with your qualifications walk in the door. There's a senior management job open and it has your name on it!"
i doubt it usually we just get the draft dodgers. we try to hire the best person for the job based on skill and the ability to do the job. we dont hire cowards.
@@mikeohagan2206 back then, the French Foreign Legion might take him. Probably not so much nowadays
@@chrismc410 thats the type of thing he was trying to avoid. do they still have the french foriegn legion i wonder.
@@mikeohagan2206 The French Foreign Legion is still around. But he had to make it to France to just to join so he have to get a passport and plenty of money to get there.
'Mary' wasn't the sort of girl to give it up to any guy who was less than 'honourable'. ;-)
Some women won't give it up to anybody doesn't put a ring on the finger. As 4 me.....No thanks. Keep on trucking !
Oh, well. He was in the Navy. He could always give Charlie a call...
@@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry Or palm and her five sisters?
@@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry wait... was Paul a submariner ?? did they say somewhere and I missed it ??
@@evergriven7402 🤣
In my time in the US Navy seabees someone had to royally screw up to receive a Bad Conduct Discharge. Dishonorable Discharges are given out for what would be felony crimes in the civilian world. The only people who i know were kicked out for popping on drug tests or too many alcohol related instances got bad conduct discharges. Its not hard to keep out of trouble. If you get in and realize its not for you. Just keep your head low do what's required and get out with a honorable discharge.
When I got out of the Army. It was known as a Dishonarable Discharge. I got an honorable discharge and Thank God for that.
The 'Big Chicken Dinner' (laughing). It's better than a Dishonorable.
A General Discharge (OTH) although an administrative discharge, there are zero benefits.
Used to be called Undesirable.
My old boss had a dishonorable discharge from the airforce, but he was a jet aircraft engineer so he had zero problems getting a job and was earning more money than anyone i knew.
the easiest and the least painful for both the service and service member is "Unsuitable for military service" which can mean anything from bedwetting, peterpuffing, undisclosed medical condition or fraudulent enlistment that is not waiverable . BCDs and DDs are for what civilians refer to as "felonies" and you will be set a military prison.
Of course, a prospective employer might not be so discriminating. That is to say, he'd wonder why the applicant couldn't hack military life. . . .
I got a discharge for Unsuitable for Military Service. But, it was due to blowback from turning in senior drill instructors and officers who were doing illegal stuff. They got wind of it and forged my papers. It got to the point it was getting dangerous. It got so bad that one guy committed suicide. I got out and contacted CID. I got a wavier to go back in anytime. This was back in 1993. CID did find out they forged my papers and lied. I tried to get in the Navy in 2000 and everything went well except the Navy recruiter didn't push my paperwork due to not getting a bonus and Navy billets were being cut.
screwing up one time completely screws up the rest of your life? what a shitty deal. imagine if we all were judged because of one stupid, insignificant thing we did a long time ago.
violent crime is one thing. but everything else, meh....you shouldn't be judged by that. "bad conduct" could be anything. it could be theft, could be not showing up to work on time, could be lots of things. it doesn't make a person completely USELESS as a human being forever.
terrible system.
It takes a lot more than a single screw up to get a BCD.
Some really interesting comments here guys... both my mothers side and dads side are deep military BUT dad went to Vietnam and was very adamant about NOT joining to me and my brother, well we didn't, went to trades school on our own dime and we both do well for ourselves... thanks dad. P.S. at almost 50 years old now not once has anyone said to me or showed me it was a bad move, if fact not much word being said good about healthcare for veterans that goes back to my grandpaw who died in 86. Now ww2 was different times... very patriotic now days not so much
@supercharged6771 // Some of the best advice ever given to me was by my grandfather (a WWII vet) who said, "Learn a trade with your hands. No matter where you go you'll always have work." I was 18 then and 35 years later I haven't yet proven him wrong....Glazier Local 636
George Bush took my husband's benefits in August of '03. That draft dodger said my husband's pension was too much money ..so No Benefits for him. No joke.
Amazing, Ellen Burstyn, an Oscar winner, is in this film. She also won Tony and 2 Emmys, making her a very rare "Triple Crown" winner. She was born in 1932 and is very much still with us at age 90.
I am glad I am not the only one that noticed her.
what a beauty!
A good friend of mine got a Less than Honorable from the Army in the early 80's. He was a dropout with a 7th grade education and a troubled youth who spent most of his teen years in one reform school or another. His mother signed the papers to allow him to enlist at 17. It got him out of her hair and house. Too many AWOLs and what technically amounted to desertion got him booted by age 18. He always regretted his decision to leave with an LTH. I can't say it ruined his life. He was making half a mil a year when he passed away and had earned his Masters degree in technology. His Doctoral thesis was going thru peer revue when he died while vacationing in Mexico.
Sorry, those things don't add up.
@@marine4lyfe85 Then take a math class.
@@mssedmebich1621 I already did. I graduated high school, not 7th grade. But tell me more about your friend's Masters in "Technology".
@@marine4lyfe85 Internet security. He was an adjunct professor at Dunwoody teaching computer forensics. In the old days people thought it was cool to hack your computer and let you know they had done so. Now they want to get in, steal your data and get out without you knowing you were hacked. Most big online company's now employ internet security managers so they don't have to tell millions of customers that their credit card numbers are all for sale on the dark web.
no such type of discharge as Less than Honorable.
I was a JAG officer in the Army and then in the Air Force for 23 years. I prosecuted and defended over 200 servicemen who received a BCD. Some, like our hero here, strived for a punitive discharge during the height of the war in Viet Nam to avoid being sent there. Shameful waste of their lives.
Alternative title: "The perils of being too smart for military service."
BTW, my long form DD214 shows honorable discharge. With the 1990s government shutdown delaying my GI Bill pay, it didn't help my post-service education benefits much.
"You can write to Washington," but flush twice.
Back during the Vietnam Era getting a discharge from active duty varied by branch of service. One example I knew based on my time in the Air Force was the following. The airman went to the Hospital Squadron Commander and said “I can’t afford to live in the manner to which I’m accustomed.” He had a wife and child, had bought a house and new car and couldn’t keep up payments on $450 a month pay (1964).
Another example was an airman who would sleepwalk off site from the barracks at night. This was a radar site in Louisiana so he didn’t have to sleepwalk far to be in bayou country. He got a discharge. My understanding is that the Army was much more restrictive.
I heard all you have to do is pee the bed and you get med discharged with full benies.
His bad conduct was pretending to cry on the steps.
US Army Retired. 1972-1998.
Today I am a retired software developer. I also volunteer at my local VA Hospital.
Way down in this Comments section a person wrote that the part of Mary was played by a young _Ellen Burstyn;_ which explains why that actress playing the part of Mary did very well with expressing emotions.
I thought there was something vaguely familiar looking with Mary, and when I saw the reference to Burstyn in the Comments section, it dawned on me.
I don't recall seeing such acting quality in other film productions like this one of that era.
Private Snafu is pretty awesome!!! LOL
You raise your hand, you take your oath and you honor your word..period. I did it and millions of other people have too.
i realize it is quite off topic but do anyone know a good place to stream new movies online?
@Colten Atlas Flixportal
@Finnegan Skylar Thanks, signed up and it seems like a nice service :D Appreciate it!
@Colten Atlas Happy to help xD
Dale thank you for your service.
Just to be technical, a BCD is not a dishonorable discharge... The DD counts as a felony and the BCD is kind of like a misdemeanor, but it doesn't show up on the person's criminal record... In some cases, even a DD might not show up... I have never had to show my DD-214 to an employer, even though I've held quite a few jobs that were with aerospace companies working for the DoD or the Navy... And as far as I can remember, I don't think I've ever been asked or known anyone else that was asked what type of discharge they received. I seem to remember someone in the personnel department at one of the companies telling me that I cannot ask what type of discharge a person received during a job interview. Something about it being treated as private information like medical information or some sort. I served with a guy that had what was probably a really personality conflict with a CPO that was over our group. I'm not sure what started it, but the CPO was constantly harassing him and trying to find fault with him. At one point, the guy just wasn't there anymore and no one knew what happened to him. Eventually, I heard that he just couldn't take the constant harassment, left, and bummed around the country for awhile. He supposedly even tried to reenlist under another name. Eventually he came to the attention of the police when he was stopped for speeding or sleeping somewhere he wasn't supposed to be and they returned him to the Navy. From what I heard, the Navy gave him a court martial and he got a BCD out of it.
I wasn't a lifer... I did my one hitch and got out... I *thought* about going back in, but instead ended up dropping back into college, and picking up a couple of degrees. I even considered going back in after I had gotten my degrees since that would mean that I could be an officer. But by that time, I had picked up a wife and being non-single and hitting port would not be fun... :)
I've heard it argued that even a person who went in and got a DD is better than someone who didn't go in at all -- at least they *tried*... There might be some truth in that... I don't know...
There are many occupations which require background checks, especially in bonded positions, or Government contractors. Forget getting a security clearance.
@@mike89128 -- A actual official government security clearance is costly and takes some time. Many companies will only hire people with currently active security clearances so that they do not have to pay for it. Considering how long it takes from what I understand, a person might work at a company for quite awhile before the clearance came back either approved or denied.
I would think that if a person had a type of discharge that they really wanted to hide, probably their best bet would be to just not mention that they had ever been in the military to any future employer. You don't want to lie since that is grounds for immediate dismissal by many companies, but just not volunteering the information is not the same as lying. Most people go into the military probably not that many years out of high school, so it would be easier to hide a few years gap in your job history back at the start. They say that when you are writing your resume, you should not list *every* job you've ever had and that only the last few would be what a potential employer would be interested in looking at. They also say that if your resume gets past 2 pages, it is unlikely to get read.
@Howie Felterbush -- I assume you are responding to me... Trophies? Nawh, don't have any, that's a civilian thing... But "ribbons" could be interpreted as the ribbons you are authorized to wear for various awards / medals and if you really look at it, there's quite a few that are kind of a "participation" thing instead of an individual thing. For example, the Sea Service Deployment Ribbon, Meritorious Unit Commendation, Navy "E" (Battle Efficiency) Ribbon, Navy Arctic (or Antarctic) Service Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, and then there are the ones that signify that you served in various war zone (even if you were not directly involved in it) like the ones for Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Kosovo, SW Asia (Iraq), etc.
I was a technician in the Navy, so not much chance for heroics... That means that you get the "participation" ribbons... Not much of a compensation for the crappy hours and shitty pay though... I still think that everyone should serve at least one enlistment in the military after getting out of high school... It mellows you out and if you end up in college afterwards, you do better than if you had just went to college straight out of high school... I definitely did better in college after getting out of the Navy than I did before going in...
@@jakeblanton6853 : Ever heard of "lying by omission"? Most employers will ask on their applications if you have ever served in the military. If you did serve and then tried to conceal
that fact by not saying you did, then yes, you are guilty of lying by omission.
@@NeoSovrnson -- I'm retired and I do not ever remember an employer asking if I served in the military on their job application forms. But then again, as an engineer, I probably did not go through the same hiring process as a low level worker might go through. Recruiters often contact us directly because they are looking for a particular skill set and someone you previously worked with mentioned your name. My military service, being somewhat related to my subsequent degrees, is listed on my resume, but I could see how someone who was just a cook in the military might not bother to put it on their resume if they had gotten a college degree in engineering after getting out of the military.
If the application asked you if you had ever been in the military and you answered no (when you in fact had), that would not be a lie of omission, that would just be a lie.
I've seen my share of "creative" resumes over the years on people that were sent by recruiters. Sometimes, it's as simple as a person who says that they attended a university for a certain period of years, but they do not list a degree attained. Sometimes, it is due to just running out of money and they could not complete their degree. I knew a guy who put it that way on his resume. He had completely all the necessary core courses in his degree, but was missing some of the BS courses that did not pertain to his major (History, English, that sort of stuff). I would have not had a problem hiring him because I knew what he was capable of. The same cannot be said for most of the Indian "engineers" whose resume was submitted by the recruiters. They would tailor their resume to the job requirements even if the person had no experience working with anything like that. If you made the mistake of hiring them, then you would find out eventually that they didn't know anything and instead were getting help after hours from their Indian friends. It's part of their culture apparently. Every once in awhile, you would actually get an Indian who was competent and who did not need the help of his Indian friends, but this sort of person was definitely in the minority. At least that was my experience over my career...
I would've joined if I had known I could get a farm when I got out!
A BCD is a result of a court-martial. Almost always, I was able to deal with bad conduct either with Article 15 (nonjudicial punishment) and/or administrative discharge. Everyone I did--dozens--resulted in an honorable discharge, even if the member had committed a court-martial offense. Better to move them along to the next phase of their lives.
I still do it the same way today. The only one I've had that was actually moving to court martial ended when the member decided to take the offered separation in lieu of- smart move. He'd certainly have gone to jail.
@@randynielsen1413 Captains mass or Article 15's.
I call bullshit.
@@markbeames7852 Vulgar clown.
@@highsecurityagent8778 "Captain's Mast."
2:00 the telegram guy isn’t a prick, he is a whole entire cactus
He got a BCD, too, and is still bitter about it.
@@PlasmaCoolantLeak He does look a bit old to be a telegram boy.
Perhaps he's supposed to represent an older Paul. And his nearly obsolete job of delivering telegrams via bicycle represents the dearth of opportunities now available to Paul.
All Paul ever has to do is not ever rely on government for anything for the rest of his life, and while plenty see that as a crisis, it is really more of an opportunity, if he rises to the challenge and meets it well.
I served six years of my youth on active duty got discharged and a honorable discharge. now that I’m in my 60s and can use some VA medical help I’m told I make too much money that back in the 1980s after I had done my time in the military they change the rules and I make too much money now. I wish I never spent one day in the military and unlike most I don’t go around saying I loved it it was the greatest time because just like the ones that say that I couldn’t wait to got out and I got out and if they feel that it was the best time in their life why didn’t they stay in. Don’t let the military industrial complex bullshit you there’s no benefit from being in the military.
What a sad little loser.
Paul has learned the first consequence of the BCD is, no nookie from Mary.
Yeah, the way she was nibbling on his neck in the car showed she was good to go until she found out about that BCD!
Bad attitude did him worse than bcd. I don’t think anyone cares about the level of your discharge unless it’s a dishonorable. Most guys with that one did time.
He said he didn't write because he was doing time.
@@oldfart3137: Yeah -- for AWOL!
The bad conduct discharge also known in the USMC as the Big Chicken Dinner. The most common discharge I saw other than an Honorable was a less than honorable which allowed you to petition to upgrade that later. But why dick around don’t go for anything but an Honorable Discharge it’s not that hard.
Paul does not belong to any "protected class," so he is SOL.
Not a thing in this time. It's only a thing now because these protected classes whined about their fair shake, so bleeding hearts deemed them protected.
for real! if only he had been a senators son or something ?
Back then he WAS in the protected class. WASP.
@@clayz1 you mean White Anglo Saxon Protestant??
@@MomMom4Cubs what's the matter B anass? I know you think the protected class should still be strictly limited to white men but do you still have to cry your little pussy tears about it all the time? You poor cowardly conservatives, your just so afraid of everybody. What a collection of gutless wonders you are.
My Dad always hired people who had been in trouble. BUT, they had to have a good attitude and want to make things right. We never discussed if any were BCD. Remember him saying you could usually get away with more in the military than in civilian life.
Everyone deserves a second chance. Your father must have been a good man. 👍
Maybe he could find a piece of paper that had the word good on it, then cut it out and glue it over the bad, then he could have said that he was “special “and no one else was really like him.. LoL
Back then and maybe now the question is on the application:
Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
Did you serve in the military?
What kind of discharge did you receive?
You have to answer the questions. Someone goes over the application. Blank questions with no response are a red flag. Answer them and lie? You are dead meat if they catch you. It tells them you cant be trusted.
I know no one is perfect and no one does the RIGHT thing (however you want to define that) ALL the time. But the system sometimes lump the good with bad sometimes. If an employer extend "mercy" to such a person trying to be fair and compssionate and then something happens, HE will be in the hot seat for hiring such a person. So you are damed either way. No good deed goes unpunished.
4 years in the Navy and I was just a dumb kid but somehow I got out with an Honorable.
Yup - about the 3rd day in boot camp in 1961, I realized that I had made a mistake by enlisting, but toughed it out, knowing what the alternative was. (The draft notice came to my folks home 2 days after I enlisted in the Navy). There is a consequence for every action, and sometimes it keeps your sorry behind out of harms way. Put in my 4 years and got out - used some of my GI benefits for nursing school, and the first 2 houses that my wife and I bought.
I fudged up 9 years in the Marines after the Gulf War as a Sergeant (drunkeness/ conduct unbecoming- Office Hours)! None of my buddies would come by me with a 10 foot pole. Passed over for Staff Sergeant. Told to get out but try to reenlist a year later. Did so, got denied reenlistment, got multitude of benefits. ALL I WANTED WAS THAT HONORABLE DISCHARGE! GOT IT AND GOT THE FUDGE ON WITH LIFE!
I don't know much about military law but if the guy was trying to hide the fact why didn't he wear a uniform when he met his family just wondering
@@joshualusco2573 dishonorable discharge... They take your uniforms away from you while you process out. You go home in civilian attire.
@@karl28560 Civvies were a LOT more comfortable to wear anyways ... They also didn't make a target out of you in foreign countries on liberty and especially in the united states
@@karl28560 i thought you kept your uniforms as you bought them on enlistment. More accurately, the cost is deducted from your first check.
@@chrismc410 Yep.
"Oh, Judy, tell Mr. Coleman to save me two quarts of ice cream!"
"Jesus Christ, woman, tell Mary, chicken, ice cream, I'm only a little kid, Goddamnit!"
My dad told me that he had an Airman who was a real screw up, but a smart guy, he really could troubleshoot an engine. But he did all kinds of dumb stuff and kept getting into trouble. My dad and the XO sat down and discussed it and they realized that while he was grown up he mentally wasn't over 16. He was getting out in 6 months and had just gotten written up for UA from the mess decks during lunch. They figured they could tell the Captain to just give him 60 days in the brig and he would probably get out or be in for a long time. The skipper said okay and sentenced him to 60 days confinement. Off he went, they thought he was gone.
Then one day he was back, all squared away and totally changed. He was never a problem again and he made it out after he did his bad time. He was always on time, squared away, the perfect sailor. He told my dad that after 8 days of the Marines kicking the crap out of him whenever he made a mistake or talked back one day he just got it and realized if he ever wanted to get out he better toe the line.
A BCD from a General Court Martial? It would be interesting to know back story the screen writer had in mind while writing the dialog. Having been an officer in my unit's admin office during one Navy tour, "absent over leave" didn't lead to a GCM with a BCD (unless he stayed gone so long that "absent over leave" turned into "desertion".) A GCM usually led to a dishonorable discharge, not a BCD. Not a happy ending either way.
All that said, I like the way the message was conveyed via a story, instead of somebody behind a lectern delivering a lecture.
A story ,short of the enormous guilt even after five + decades...mine was a GD Under Honorable Conditions...but in reality a failure of character...I've had a good life & career but regret is not a strong enough word to describe the self-damage done.
Ralph, it seems like it's more of a self imposed guilt, that doesn't make you a failure.
Before all the "candidate background" check companies popped up in the 90s, I wonder if he'd get away with simply saying his discharge was honorable. I don't know about the military, but I do know the mail-order-college-degrees were working up until the mid 90s.
Not with Bad Conduct or Dishonorable. Both require Court-Martial to receive and like all court proceedings, all public record . Anyone can access it.
The administrative discharges, unless you're applying for government jobs, first responder jobs, jobs that are held to higher standards than normal civilians, no one will know you were in unless you tell them.
@@chrismc410 I think this may be fairly unique to Americans. For example, unless you were criminally charged while in the armed forces, A Canadian employer/school would never know about your military record (good OR bad) unless you decide to tell them. Military service records aren't part of basic criminal record searches or other public records. Of course, high-security jobs like Law-Enforcement would be a different story, but a DD wouldn't have any impact on applying for education or regular hiring processes. Veterans' benefits would be about the only roadblock.
I still have my (honorable) discharge papers from the Navy 26 years later, but no one's ever asked to see them.
Over here, and even back in the day, Bad Conduct and Dishonorable Discharges require Court-Martial proceedings and is therefore public record, anyone can look at the transcript, scrubbed if any classified is involved, the disposition, etc
$300 and you graduated from Harvard.
Suitable for framing bogus diploma.
Knew a guy who wanted out so bad he faked a LSD flashback at sea in the Tonkin Gulf in 1967. He was off our ship and gone, gone, gone within 24 hours. Never heard of him again.
Smart move.
It could be much worse for Paul. He could have been a lawyer.
While interesting for a historical perspective the America that this film attempts to portray is gone with the wind.
I may not have been born until 1981, but I just find it hard to believe that that America EVER existed.
@@lizardprotector
Of course, because you've been told your whole life it never did. An America close enough to the one portrayed in old movies to be immediately recognizable as such did in fact exist. In most places (outside of large cities) it didn't die off until the 1970s.
Stu Glenn. Paul's Neighborhood don't look like that now. And White People don't live in that Neighborhood anymore. God Bless.
Excellent video presentation. One thing surprised me however. Paul was unaware that by taking the BCD he had forfeited his entitlement to veterans' benefits. including the G.I. loans. I would have thought that his counsel at the court-martial would have advised him of the consequences of his actions before the trial had begun.
This movie short is the concept of life with a BCD.
THOSE are the particulars; that point in time when you arrive home and how and who is affected by having a BCD and how your life won't be so great .
The objective of Uncle Sam flying this film was to prevent more walkies from checking out and punking the machine.
When USA was really a country of education. Nowadays? No comment.
This was before the comrades were college professors and today when a good portion of public school teachers became like them and a majority either agreed with the crap or were cowered into going along with them🦨
3 Captains masts in 4 years. Eventually I decided the time left was not that long. The VA has looked after me well all these decades.
(facetiously speaking) I just love the wardrobe formalities of that era LOL: male adults with a coat and tie; women with hat and gloves; just to travel to the train station.
@Matthew Morrison What you pointed out may illustrate the differences of peoples' behavior from then to now.
It has impressed me with the contrasts of dressing attire, in the US, from the 1950s to the present: There seemed to have been a higher level of civility and social restraint back in the era when everyday wear for men had them with coats/ties/slacks; and women with dresses and skirt suits.
Is it a coincidence that the 21st century proliferation of unruly people in public coincides with the social acceptance of sloven attire in public?
@@bloqk16 I think there was a lot more window dressing and bullshit hypocrisy, people were no better then than now, just the nicely dressed wealthier sorts could evade censure for their 'sins' by being 'nice people like us'.
To WELCOME HOME their boy.
Coming from a family that had several members of the military, I knew the importance of an Honorable Discharge. It was in 1974 and going to school on the GI Bill was not all that great, but my service experience came in handy. I’ve seen guys with BCDs and General Discharges and most didn’t do very well. Actually the military treated me better for my experience than civilian life.
I was Honorable Discharge. Proud of it U.S. Navy was the best thing that ever happened to me. I was a Radioman 3rd class. made a man out of me. G.I. Bill VA mortgage etc. My dad had a smile a mile long when i returned home.
Good lesson for a young man to know.
- Good lesson? This is but the harshest lesson anybody could have other than a firing squad.
@@israelzayas361 im referring to showing this film to the young men so they know what awaits if they screw the pooch.
Isn’t the girlfriend actress Ellen Burstyn?
yes, good thing she dumped him..or else she wouldn't have became a successful actress..and would have continued making these "D" movies.
You can use the VA loan for a house. What I didn't know was when you paid for a house you can use that loan for a second house. You can go right down the line for rental property. No money down.
Looking back at those guys who got into trouble during my active-duty time I never felt sorry for any of them. They had themselves to blame. In fact, one time I was serving as prisoner escort for a guy in my squadron who was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for theft of government property - smoke grenades and 7.62 rounds. He received a dishonorable discharge was going to be sent to Fort Lewis. During my escort time he admitted to me he was a dumbass and no one to blame but himself. I actually admired him for stating that. Most guys who got Article 15's or worse would bitch and claim they were being screwed over. Those guys were just children failing to hold themselves accountable for their own actions. They got what they deserved.
And to think, Paul could have had a farm to. If he had only put up with just four more months of sheeat.
The irony of someone buying a farm in a military training video...
The world has changed. Not everything in black and white, like this film.
@PompierCanadien In fact, the more of a shitbag a person is, the more he is respected. We went drastically wrong somewhere.
@PompierCanadien Preach!
@PompierCanadien Yeah!! Testify!!!! because Paul was such a bad Sociopath that deserves to be locked up like he raped a child or something .....right ???
@PompierCanadien and...OK ...Boomer!!!
I just wish i knew if
the guy found some work and learned from his mistake. My heart went out to him when he broke down and cried.i know it could be just from being rejected so many times or deep remorse for his bad decision. Dont know which. I know he is responsible because he chose to do what he did.
I still would like to see him get a chance to show he can do the right thing and that because he did that bad thing at that one time in his life he does not deserve to be branded as evil incarnate for the rest of his life.