I went to St Louis Museum of Fine Art to see the Ru dish and the Guan vessel in person. In addition to that there are about 12 rooms in the gallery that host a number of very strong porcelain examples, as well as a breathtaking amount of early bronze vessels and jades. I highly advise the trip.
Thank you Jake! One of the best “asian art” collections I have seen in the US was the Minneapolis museum of art. I went to the SF asian art museum and wish there were more porcelains. Seemed like a lot of snuff bottles and buddha statues. Beautiful, of course! Although, I always enjoy recommendations.
Very interesting video. Well done. Obviously Peter put a lot of thoughts on this particular video. For those high fly porcelain lots, a lot of heated debates will happen here and other forums for sure. Big thanks Peter.
Good as always Peter. You pointing out a big problem and you are spot on! This weekend i had some pieces without provenance but with a possible trace. But the auctionhouse took the safeside. Lucky me the buyers did see same as i told them
Hi Peter, As a contrary, in my opinions, Sotheby’s did a good job this time in dating the pieces in their “The Hundred Antiques” sale. Most of the pieces that were sold at surprisingly high prices are indeed of late Qing to Republic period, and some are even modern copies, judging from the color and the quality of the enamels and the fluidity of the strokes. These items are not only lack of provenance but also lack of artistic values or quality. For example, the iron red color in the Doucai piece with a Yongzheng mark is not consistent with Yongzheng Emperor’s aesthetic taste. The other piece decorated with bamboo leaves and branches is a typical late 19th century piece. The ruby back dish with famille rose decoration and a Yongzheng mark is simply wrong in every each aspect. Many new collectors and rich families in China are too “savvy” only to get themselves deceived in this low-end sale, although Sotheby’s has been honest in dating the items. No, savvy is not the right word for them. It’s greedy and overconfident.
On the bamboo bowl, they've had two other lots of a very similar type as Yongzheng in the last few years. Same drawing, same coloring, same shape. That said it all makes for an interesting debate. Won't be the first nor certainly not the last.. Best Peter
I agree and I think it is not just the 'new collectors' but these are probably also acquired by the dealers in China and they will resale these (or in the next Guardian or Poly auctions...) for an even higher price/estimate...tbh I don't understand this market anymore...
@@eccuk777 You are right. The domestic market in China has unusually high faith in major international auction houses such as Sotheby’s, Christie’s and Bonhams. It’s almost a superstitious thing. As long as something was acquired from one of the major auction houses, many people would think that it must have some sort of “provenance” and its authenticity is guaranteed and undisputed. They don’t understand the HUGE difference between the high-end live auctions and the low-end online sales. All they care to possess is the little prestigious paper tag from Sotheby’s or Christie’s or Bonhams
I've been thinking about this video since yesterday and the absolutely astounding spread between the estimates and the actuals. My question is how common is this, and if there are other clustered examples of what seems to be a very consistent group of items in auction records, what's the average price spread per auction with highest and lowest spread, and how does this one compare? If that's possible (the situation isn't unique) then the numbers should be in one, maybe two, and possibly but not likely three standard deviations from that mean. If they aren't, or this is a unique occurrence, this looks for all intents and purposes like a market manipulation done to create speculative inflation in a secondary market. Of course, it could also be an artefact of the subjective choices made to profile them here. It just seems odd to me.
I guess we will see more and more stuff getting sold at higher prices without provenance as the markets gets more limited . For every day more antiques gets exported back to China without permision to leave again . Nowadays people love to gamble on the antique values .
I want to know my two antique porcelain plates of Dilli darbar in India in 1902 these are original these are my family property how i send photos of those plates you can see mark on those back side i want to know those value i don't know much English plz ans me
Amazing prices,excellent video Peter thank you..🏴
I went to St Louis Museum of Fine Art to see the Ru dish and the Guan vessel in person. In addition to that there are about 12 rooms in the gallery that host a number of very strong porcelain examples, as well as a breathtaking amount of early bronze vessels and jades. I highly advise the trip.
Thank you Jake! One of the best “asian art” collections I have seen in the US was the Minneapolis museum of art. I went to the SF asian art museum and wish there were more porcelains. Seemed like a lot of snuff bottles and buddha statues. Beautiful, of course! Although, I always enjoy recommendations.
You gotta love this guy!!!
Incredible!!! Thankz!! Peter
Amazing knowledge shared thanks
Go petey go
Extra video, thank you.
Just finished it ...about five minutes ago...best Peter
Very interesting video. Well done. Obviously Peter put a lot of thoughts on this particular video. For those high fly porcelain lots, a lot of heated debates will happen here and other forums for sure. Big thanks Peter.
Good as always Peter.
You pointing out a big problem and you are spot on!
This weekend i had some pieces without provenance but with a possible trace.
But the auctionhouse took the safeside.
Lucky me the buyers did see same as i told them
Thank you 💟 Peter
멋찝니다~~~
big thanks
Hi Peter, As a contrary, in my opinions, Sotheby’s did a good job this time in dating the pieces in their “The Hundred Antiques” sale. Most of the pieces that were sold at surprisingly high prices are indeed of late Qing to Republic period, and some are even modern copies, judging from the color and the quality of the enamels and the fluidity of the strokes. These items are not only lack of provenance but also lack of artistic values or quality. For example, the iron red color in the Doucai piece with a Yongzheng mark is not consistent with Yongzheng Emperor’s aesthetic taste. The other piece decorated with bamboo leaves and branches is a typical late 19th century piece. The ruby back dish with famille rose decoration and a Yongzheng mark is simply wrong in every each aspect. Many new collectors and rich families in China are too “savvy” only to get themselves deceived in this low-end sale, although Sotheby’s has been honest in dating the items. No, savvy is not the right word for them. It’s greedy and overconfident.
On the bamboo bowl, they've had two other lots of a very similar type as Yongzheng in the last few years. Same drawing, same coloring, same shape. That said it all makes for an interesting debate. Won't be the first nor certainly not the last.. Best Peter
I agree and I think it is not just the 'new collectors' but these are probably also acquired by the dealers in China and they will resale these (or in the next Guardian or Poly auctions...) for an even higher price/estimate...tbh I don't understand this market anymore...
@@eccuk777 You are right. The domestic market in China has unusually high faith in major international auction houses such as Sotheby’s, Christie’s and Bonhams. It’s almost a superstitious thing. As long as something was acquired from one of the major auction houses, many people would think that it must have some sort of “provenance” and its authenticity is guaranteed and undisputed. They don’t understand the HUGE difference between the high-end live auctions and the low-end online sales. All they care to possess is the little prestigious paper tag from Sotheby’s or Christie’s or Bonhams
Without provenance Sotheby's, Christie's and many western auction houses plus dealers are nothing!
Provenance can be readily created, so even with provenance, they are still nothing!
@@lisang5441 You’re absolutely right!
I've been thinking about this video since yesterday and the absolutely astounding spread between the estimates and the actuals. My question is how common is this, and if there are other clustered examples of what seems to be a very consistent group of items in auction records, what's the average price spread per auction with highest and lowest spread, and how does this one compare? If that's possible (the situation isn't unique) then the numbers should be in one, maybe two, and possibly but not likely three standard deviations from that mean. If they aren't, or this is a unique occurrence, this looks for all intents and purposes like a market manipulation done to create speculative inflation in a secondary market. Of course, it could also be an artefact of the subjective choices made to profile them here. It just seems odd to me.
I guess we will see more and more stuff getting sold at higher prices without provenance as the markets gets more limited . For every day more antiques gets exported back to China without permision to leave again . Nowadays people love to gamble on the antique values .
Why do you need a permission to return it to China? No need for a permission to bring it back home
@@anzietakamatsu1805 It is forbidden to take antiques from China but not the opposite .
@@mattias811 ahhh sorry, I misread your comment
Sotheby's experts! are they nuts ?
Not as nutty as the folks who clearly overpaid for these items.
I want to know my two antique porcelain plates of Dilli darbar in India in 1902 these are original these are my family property how i send photos of those plates you can see mark on those back side i want to know those value i don't know much English plz ans me
I can't find his email id in description
👍👍👍
Stolen or looted items.
How so?
I don't know much English i am a housewife I don't know how i send photos please favor me tell me what I do plz contact me