I filed after 20 years without telling him. It was cut and dry because we didn’t have nothing to fight for. I walked away with nothing but my peace & sanity. I’m so glad I finally got the strength to do it. I’ve been Free for 8 months
Sometimes the narcs don’t walk away they wanted out all along but have to find a supply before they leave and they lie about the affair they have while married but never admit it and act like they just happen to be together. Bull ! They are not honest . They are times people mess up but they should owe up to it and not expect the innocent spouse to keep them up and use it for their own selfish sinful ways … they should be open and tell the truth that they don’t love someone enough to be faithful and just flipping go on !!! If the spouse wants to make a settlement then that’s their choice. But it’s awful people play goody toe shoes til They do something! It’s ok as long as they do wrong but boy they don’t wanna be done wrong ! Hypocrisy!
19 year marriage 8 year court battle $600,000 my legal fees Despite this, leaving was absolutely the best decision! My recommendation is gather as much documentary evidence in the year before leaving. Stay strong and stand firm on your truth!
@@Luke747gal take scanned copies of all financial documents for yourself & your husband held jointly and in sole names. For example bank statements, any business documents, superannuation balances, share holding and investment statement of holdings and any transaction notices, any employment earnings, tax returns , loan agreements and balances outstanding, property purchases and sales etc. Also, if you have any children take scanned copies of any school reports and medical reports
At the end of my 3 year divorce from a Covert Narcissist, the Judge "suggested" at the end of her written ruling that I could potentially sue the other side for legal fees due to "non-cooperation". I did & I was awarded 1/3 of my attorney fees.
My ex husband was such a narcissist, he enrolled a law degree in the middle of a divorce (which is now in its 5th year). In the beginning, he was hiring barristers and then realised that he is "cleverer" than them, i.e. they were so "stupid" they couldn't convince judges to believe his lies. Let me also say that he already has a degree in electrical engineering and has had a lucrative career in IT. He has abused every venue of appeal and even applied to the European Court of human rights. He didn't want to pay child maintenance so the children had to endure a DNA test. When the children and I left unbearable hell of family home in a shelter, he changed the locks and rented the house to three young women (living there with him). We managed to kick him out. God gives me strength to deal with this freak and I can't wait to see how he is going to deal with him in the end. People, especially women need to be educated to spot a narcissist from a mile. They are a plague to a human race. I am so glad I left him, it is priceless.
I know your joy, and anguish. Congrats on your victories along the way. What was your dad like? My mom was tremendous, so I kept expecting my narcissistic partner to be normal. So she got away with SO much due to my naivete.
14 years married, 17k 9 month divorce. My ex was a narcissist in every way. He just text me yesterday relitigating the divorce 3 years later because he lost big. Thankful for full custody of my 2 kids. This was such an interesting podcast. My divorce cost me everything but freedom is priceless.
They did the same on child support cases as well!! Mines is still attempting to gaslight me every chance he gets because he lost big but he is the one that hired and attorney to intimidate me!!! Didn’t work!! I won big💪🏾🏆
@Ericka Hill Most of the time.... a true Narc really dont want the kids thats why they dont take care of the financially after the breakup!! If they want custody of the kids its to hurt u but gather all evidence of abuse and malice towards u and the kids get a great lawyer thats going to fight for u!
There's small battles to be won. & if they think they are hurting you, when it doesn't, they won't try so hard to go another level and that is a win. So you claim, "No, a quick divorce, is the last thing I want!" 😉 a little reverse psychology 19:24
I read this online in a poster: When a narcissist loses was control over you, they will control what others think of you. 18 years 8 months and 7 days and I got out. Have no home I am on every housing list and I came to survive in the middle of winter. All that being said... my life is better than any day of that 18 years 8 months and 7 days.
It bad when you don’t know what a narcissist is and thing they do word they say what to expect all you know is you don’t really know the person you marri d to and they are abusie. I had to file D.or I be dead today this was man years ago
We much do study on what these witches; they craft. Mars’s oss is what is the specties how they attack they victims. What can the person victim can do to get free when they hav nothing wow so many not aware
Not checking my inbox and it negatively affecting my work is SPOT ON! Seeing the narc’s name makes me physically ill and creates such an adrenaline rush.
Yes! I also suffer from full body pain and now have high blood pressure and had to deliver the baby early. I couldn’t keep the pressure down he floods me with texts and calls
The only way to take control from a narcissist is to get yourself from their domain first. You wont be able to figure out anything until and unless you are out of the hellish world. I will tell you one of my favourite stories. Once a King was too disturbed by everything that was happening around him. He felt as if no one was loyal to him and he was always afraid of his kingdom being attacked by perpetrators. He lost his sleep and his life had become hell. So he thought of taking a brief sojourn in the countryside. He passed through lush green fields and picturesque landscapes. The silent breeze that brushed through his hair filled his heart with joy. That is when he saw a farmer who was putting fence around his farmland. But his farmland had weeds all over and they hardly had any crops. This intrigued the King. He asked the farmer as to why was he putting a fence around the farm when the farm itself was covered with weeds. To this the farmer said that the farm was his own so he could get rid of the weeds whenever he liked. But he cant stop the stray dogs from running over his fields and destroying them. That is why he was putting the fence. To stop the stray dogs from venturing into the field. Once he was very assured about the security of his fields he can work on clearing the weeds and planting crops. On hearing this the King somewhat got the answer which he had been searching for. The human mind is also like the field. You cant control assholes from fiddling with your mind or saying bullshit. But you can definitely put a fence ( figuratively) so that these assholes cant influence you. And until and unless you dont put a fence you can never work on yourself. Once you have distanced yourself from toxic people then you can work on the healing process. Same is the case with narcs. Narcs are these stray dogs who suck your energy emotionally. They play mind games for fun because their mind wants melodrama. They hurt the very people who love them. So total isolation from these narcs is absolutely essential for the well being of your Mind. Once you are out of their mind games you can take decisions rationally. Narcs try to drain you emotionally. So everytime you respond to their low vibrations you tend to come to their level. But when you react confidently without panicking and without responding to their negative vibrations that is when you Win. When someone realises that you arent being influenced or being manipulated by their actions they will get tired of it. And after cutting them off completely from your lives you should work on your healing process. Work on clearing your mental clutter and keep yourself preoccupied. Read books and most importantly try to find your Purpose in life. When you find your Purpose you will be able to bear any pain in this World. Most importantly help others in need. When you find someone else who is stuck with a narc help them to get out of that. I feel this is the way to take control from a narcissist. P.S: I hardly find people around me who know about emotional abuse. But I think everyone should read and know about it. In today’s mean world you will find a lot of people who try to influence you or demoralise you using the sweetest of words. Its about identifying these covert manipulators and distancing yourself from them. I have immense respect for people who have survived narcissistic partners. They happen to be the most strongheaded and emotionally stable people you can come across. I learn a lot of things from them. Truly the broken will always be the most beautiful. Moreover, People wonder why they end up hurt, seriously hurt, and even killed for their own actions. Cheating is a choice and there’s simply a lot of ignorance in the process.... Thank you so much for helping me out Barryinvestigation@gmail. com. Your advice and services helped me so much. You are a lifesaver !!! The information you gave me about my cheating partner when you gave me access to his phone was everything I needed to get,.. thank you very much..
This is such important information. I am now divorced after 36 years of marriage to a difficult narcissist. Thankfully my attorney was upfront about going to court telling me that only the attorneys would win. My attorney said my ex was the most difficult person she had dealt with in her long career. The Narc-Ex had a replacement for me before I even left the home and my children learned of his new wife on Facebook (his go-to for supply) My "settlement" ended up being a fraction of the 1/2 it should have been & my physical and mental health suffered as did the health of my adult children. It was a nightmare, but I am free. Still lots of rumination about the new woman in the home I made even so far as wearing the clothing I had to leave behind when I covertly left. Please keep educating people including attorneys and judges.
Praying for you. Don’t worry about the new woman you are free of the toxicity and the ex is her problem. Keep pouring positivity and light into yourself
Wow! Literally identical to my story. Still awaiting divorce be finalized after 35+ yr marriage; our adult daughters also suffering from mental health and trauma; he does live with new woman and flaunting her on social media and everywhere. I am unbothered by that. But I hate that divorce is taking so long.
I can’t even divorce my narcissist I just feel like death might be the only way out. Can’t afford to leave I’ll lose what little I have and yet nothing means anything to me. He is the hardest person I’ve ever dealt with in my life. I just don’t even know what to do at this point. Too depressed to make plans to leave too depressed to look for extra work or want to work a second job to stay steady on my feet. It’s hell. I haven’t had a clear mind in years and nobody understands except the people who’ve maybe gone through this. It’s the strangest thing to ever deal with then having to deal with the trauma in your head.
I’m currently divorcing a narcissist and I can definitely relate. Please, find whatever brings you peace and cling to it (going into nature, working out, venting to a trusted friend/ loved one, etc.) you will crawl out of that depression and be just fine, but you have to fight! Please consider reading Vibrate Higher Daily by Lalah Delia also The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Don’t give up.
@@sophiyahsunflower7259 thank you! I’ve tried to do the same I pray on a regular and find myself praying so fast and sometimes forget what I’ve prayed about but I do need to take the time and talk to God and let him direct me! Thank You🩵
@@shansmith7100 oh yea. That’s definitely gonna help. Our Lease is up in July and I cannot wait!! All the best! Sending healing and strength your way ❤️
Demetria is really good. I divorced a full fledged narcissist & all this is true. Best approach was to be the "reasonable" one & the one being willing to "compromise" to come to a "solution" (whether you want this or not). Emphasize you support the kids "loving" the other parent & vice versa. This IS what judges want to hear. The narcissist will NOT support this, this even triggers them & they do "themselves" in. This was hard but was so effective & worked!!! Took me 3 yrs.
@@tamarasmith5127 just seeing this. Hope things have gone well. But leaving a narc, please put your safety first. Don't confront him, don't discuss. Act submissive (even though you're not!). But never back down in your demands for child support, fair visitation, punctuality, etc. In court, judges want to see your willingness to cooperate, compromise, & that you support visitation. They also want to see your willingness to work. Give them what they want to see. Goal is to walk away safely, with a custody decree & child support. All the best. A big hug.
Started putting all my special stuff and my belongings in my truck. Took a small vacation to Tennessee, procured a job, went back, packed a few more things, gave my 2 week notice, said my goodbyes, and moved into an abandoned, condemned cabin, fixed it up a Lil, in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, so happy I abandoned him and all my other stuff. Freedom from him is worth the loss of the house/money...
So Happy for you! ❤️ That’s Exactly what I want and was even looking to move there once Everything is over! I just started the process and papers have been filed. Wish me luck!❤️
This should be illegal with a person with npd they should be able to submit that being not in mental state of mind going around an mentally messing people up with there abuse they should. Not have a small tiny chance to say anything at all due to there unstableness it’s not even fair for those of us that wasn’t even toxic or narcissistic in any way at all I’m invovled in a narcissistic marriage right now an each time she gets mad she yells out you no what I can’t take this marriage nomore just get the divorce I’m done it’s way too much for me an I’m sick an tired of waking on eggshells I really am
Really great but triggering. I will say premarital counseling is such a laughable suggestion. If marriage counseling is a bad idea with a narcissist, what do you think premarital counseling will do? I went through premarital counseling with my ex narcissist. I think it was just the perfect venue for more love bombing and future faking, and gave him the complete playbook on how to manipulate me since I was actually being honest.
Counseling is just a way for the disordered partner to catalog your traumas and weaknesses and to manipulate the therapist into thinking you're the "primary patient. " They will use your vulnerability in counseling to further abuse you by by exploiting what you disclosed in therapy. If you have children, they will do the same thing in therapy with the children. The truth eventually comes out but not for years and by then the collateral damage is done. The kids will end up traumatized in the divorce.
I file for divorce after 37 years with a Narcissist it was easy he didn’t respond to the serve so I was happy our children were adults so it took 7 months and I was free as a bird
I think that is the way when children are grown because otherwise it is a long war with the most damage on children. How did you cope with him in marriage?
This is what I’m doing. I just focus on making each day good for my kids and when they’re adults, I’ll file. Idc about $, so… I only want peace without traumatizing our precious children ❤
Magnificent gratitude beautiful SOUL, I needed this, I'm saving 4 divorce but it's crazy expensive. I'm very concerned but even being afraid, I am moving FORWARD. THANKS 4 SHARING UR EXPERIENCE BEAUTIFUL SOUL 🎉🎉🎉BEST OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND HAPPINESS 💓🌟💖🌞
@@ThenextpersonSorry beautiful but your children are damaged staying anymore, I stayed caz I didn't know my children are adults but he's using them still today and I'm only four months away after 42 years married to the MONSTER. After finally leaving - he kicked me out Thank GOD, but blaming me and killed my chickens and my cat and then another family destroyed. He's crazy and I say plan don't feel the regret of your children. Only one of my sons is an acholic bcaz of this abusive situation after years. I love U with full support, there are many resources and many people willing 2 help ❤🎉❤🎉❤BEST OF LUCK 🎉🎉🎉
I agree. A very knowledgeable and "seasoned" attorney. Just the kind anyone going up against a Narc. needs! And Regardless, of the situation. More power to her and us!!!
Information and support on divorcing a narcissist is a much needed resource. Could you do one on how to navigate custody battles with a narc ex please? This seems to be where they really have a field day.
Yessss, I need the custody battle interview. Currently going through that and fully expect to have to fight repeatedly until my child turns 18. The narcissist will never give up and will do anything to try and crush any ounce of happiness or success their ex obtains. I'm fighting this war one battle at a time.
Experienced divorce attorney here. (Pennsylvania and New Jersey). An ounce of prevention (vetting very carefully before getting married, or staying single) is the safest way to proceed in any relationship. Great video! Stay safe out there!
Such an unhelpful statement once people are already in it and need to divorce. The point is understood, but this is actually victim blaming and very harmful to those in this situation.
Even if you don’t get married but you have children together, the process steamrolls children and the non abusive spouse. Family law is the appendix of our justice system and is due for an appendectomy because it’s full of sh!t. Due to the nature of our civil justice system and its inherent bias towards the individual with the highest tolerance for wearing a mask in public, there is almost no ceiling for the amount of damage that can be inflicted on the other person and by proxy, the children. My ex used the threat of bringing me back to court to take more custody of our children whenever I disagreed with him or he felt that I was challenging him in any way. This was his go to threat when he wanted to keep me in my place. My children and I spent over a decade living with this and I cannot tell you how much mental and emotional distress this caused us. I had to weigh the consequences of not standing up for the needs our children had against the danger of being expelled entirely from their lives. I had to learn how to minimize and debase myself in order to practice a kind of mental jujitsu. This kowtowing technique looked really bad from an outside perspective but it was really the only way to avoid high conflict and achieve any positive results. The downside is that it further undermined my previously damaged self confidence. I was never able to take a direct approach and have this recognized as a strength by others. My immediate family in particular could just not understand why I would not simply stand up for myself or how it was possible that I lost custody in the first place. They just couldn’t believe me when I told them that the court didn’t want to hear about his shady manipulation and how harping on this only made it easier for him to highlight my supposed incompetence to be a stable co-parent. Both of our children are adults now and he is paying for their therapy. Neither of them trust him much and I now get to enjoy them both without the threat of him taking them away. Instead, he now uses his leverage with their health insurance as control, but it is much less effective and would require him to justify this to his family. He is terrified of being perceived as a less than responsible father and this keeps him from carrying out the worst of his threats. The damage he continues to cause them is unimaginable as his love and support are constantly contingent upon them performing their duties as children, which is as confusing and impossible as that sounds. They know I love them unconditionally and so I hope that will be enough for them to value their self worth by. None of us is truly recovered from the years of impending legal threat and we must work at it daily to restore stability and peace. Family law is no safe space and it continues to be the arena for all the worst aspects of humanity to play out on a public platform. It would be a more honest representation of what family court is about if there were stockades or other equally as shame inducing equipment that were used. I think it would be a popular idea for the voyeuristic public to throw trash and rotten food at the “bad” actors. In essence this is what happens when your audience is only interested in displaying your private information in the worst possible way in order to weaponize it so that conflict is encouraged and punishment is imposed by proxy of your own children (or pets). Every time I left the courtroom with less custody than I came in with a piece of my soul died. Every time our young children looked at me and said “We lost again, didn’t we?” it took a sledgehammer to my chest. Each time he called me names, degraded my self esteem as a parent, and threatened to take me back into court for another public shaming, a chunk of my confidence and pride cracked off and floated away. There was nothing I could do except bend myself into whatever shape he wanted in order to maintain physical contact with my children. There was nothing just or in the best interest of the children involved. And so we became survivors with scars. Recovery will be a lifetime. And I never married him. Family court is the weapon of choice for the narcissist, married or otherwise. Critical family law theory must be established to fully address what is actually happening in this modern day scold’s bridle of a institution.
What to do when the narcissistic spouse has made you so isolated that there is no support system? They have 100% financial control. And your reputation is ruined
🎉I’m in the same boat. Find employment nearby Sell everything you can Get on gov assistance Get a gov apartment Go uni part time Get gov or corporate job Be quiet 🤫 about everything!!!
there is always a way out. Find a local charity, they helped me, free legal aid, go to your church. Friends will help, too. I was in the same situation for 20 years before I realised there was a way out. They make you feel you are helpless, they are wicked. Be brave and leave him. God is with you, pray to Him and He will help.
You have described my situation, my narc ex husband chucked me and my children out of the house. I live far from my family. Had to ask for government help, sought out help in every way including advice from social worker. I promise there is always a way out you just have to ask the right people. It won’t be easy but it is worth it. I now have my own place with my babies and have gone back to uni. Hope the best for you ❤
I’m in the same boat with you and now in a mental health clinic due to my wife’s claims. Today she topped it all…had a messenger come to hand deliver a court non molestation order at the mental health clinic to me. My whole life is gone and all because she can say anything and the courts will accept it and I can’t as a man have any defence
Absolutely the truth. Everyone of these statements. I saw this statement in a poster online: When a narcissist loses control over you, they will control what others think of you. So, so true. Without any conscience of what it said or the damage it will do to you.
Wow this one was FANTASTIC!!! Please bring Demetria in another time in the future. This was so insightful and she’s so smart but also gives information in a very light, easy to digest way. Idk if it’s just me? I loved this episode.
This is an excellent podcast. I wish I had found an attorney like Ms. Graves when I went through a divorce from a diagnosed sociopath 18 years ago. I went through 3 attorneys and ran out of money before I could find appropriate counsel. The worst case scenarios that are described in this podcast happened to me and traumatized me for life. I had documented everything but it did not help when push came to shove because the family courts and judicial system did not recognize the existence of narcissistic personalities at the time, even though I had medical proof of the ex's personality disorder. My children went through hell because of the situation, were forced to spend a weekend a month at their dad's place even though they contested it, and are still dealing with the confusing and gut-wrenching aftermath 16 years later. Divorce is difficult in the best of situations, but divorcing a sociopath raises this to a whole different level of pain and injustice.
The email! Omg I thought it was just me. 2 years after my divorce and I still have to psych myself up to check it twice a week. Divorce ptsd is very real. Don’t get married folks. Or only do so with a rock solid pre-nup.
Demetria is fully equipped of all the knowledge on how to provide rekevant answers to these narcissism issues. She's so brilliant that aliigns well with the interviewer's pursuits for sensible solutions to all her questions
My ex husband did agree to mediation. And while we went through it, it was super emotional as he was antagonistic and didn’t want to give in on certain things. Even now, he recalls that he “trusted the wrong people and got screwed”. If anything this episode prepared me that he will eventually take me to court, so that “he can win”! I save all his antagonistic text messages.
My ex forced 6 mediations on me out of state with zero intention of “mediating” one thing. His entire motivation- to drain me financially ( as we had to split cost of mediation- and OF COURSE- he would use the entire 8 hours and at the final hour say no to everything😉 just so I was charged the full amount…- and to torture me and frighten me with threats. I was never so emotionally drained in my life. What’s shocking is the court system seems to either not see this abuse or not care.
The trial isn’t always the end… 3 year marriage, divorce- out of state- 6 mediations, 2 full trials, at least 50 motions against me, had my bank records subpoenaed, work records subpoenaed, literally the country store across the street from where I lived had a subpoena presented to them to give all receipts of my purchases! My work harassed, oh my favorite- having a constable sent to my work not home which he knew that address with the sole intention of embarrassing me, my child’s school harassed ( and the smear campaign of my character I had no clue about), calling family members, sent devices to our child w listening capabilities for him, forced FaceTime every night w our 5 yr old for hours- which of course she didn’t have that attention span so really it was to spy on us, and well over 100k spent by me alone. It’s STILL ONGOING- we split in 2011. Most importantly and what enraged me the most- our child has been so traumatized by a system that was supposed to prioritize her!! What a joke. When I say these people are monsters, evil, manipulative, hell bent on winning and destroying you with zero empathy- I’m not kidding. Nevermind our child being brainwashed against me. How I didn’t off myself? I’m damn strong. I need to say THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU- to this attorney.. this work has to be maddening, talk about stressful- and she doesn’t need to practice in this area… THANK YOU for helping the victims of this. I had no idea, made every mistake, my mental health was shaken, I truly feel tortured by all of this. I felt so alone, so you are God sent!! You are saving children. Truly
What a Gift to the world you two women are! My divorce was brutal in 1994... still talking to my kids about issues that began back then. Thanks, Dr. Ramani and Dimitria❣️
11 years married, no children, no physical violence. I had my narc professional husband served papers. He didn't want to sign & proceed with a divorce, but told me he wanted me to come back so HE could save $ on taxes, no love mentioned of course. 16 years separated, he sold our home & he recently paid cash to have a bigger, new house built & furnished & lives there now. Our attorneys cost us each >$30,000. He hid so many assets, collectibles, stocks, accounts & LLC & he worked the system. Fortunately I had some of that paper proof, but not all. Money & control mean everything to him! This is a great podcast & I sure wish I'd seen it earlier! Our case was just finalized by the court last week & I didn't get much in the divorce settlement. Meanwhile he is retired now, still brings in $9,000 K/month & flaunts it. I will stay clear of narcassistic men & will never marry again.
'The more we engage, the most it's going to cost, and it's not getting us anywhere.' @15:20 WOW this is SPOT on as a general understanding of the true cost of dealing with a narc. Thank you so much for that gem. I don't know how I missed this episode, but it's a wealth of knowledge especially coming from the logical, contractual, by-the-book mindset of a lawyer.
This is the absolute truth. Cuz anytime you show any kind of an emotion in court you're a crazy lunatic. The lack of empathy reads really well in the courtroom apparently vs your real time emotions
Thanks so much Ms. Graves and Dr. Ramani. It helps us to know that someone out there knows all about narcs and how they operate. It gives us strength to know that someone understands the situation.
While I agree, most people don't see someone with NPD in all their glory until it's too late. I know from experience that they are great pretenders. They play the long game, and will have you questioning yourself and all that you know. Even when you do start to become wise to what they are about, you are already conditioned to question your own judgement.
I had a text book Narcissit divorce in my first marriage, just as she discribes. My attorney finally slapped my ex with "abuse thru the court system". I'm sure that is not the correct term. That ended it all. We divorced. This was in 2002. I'm in Illinois.
@@wendeezy456 sorry this took me so long to respond. I’ve just been learning about it now. I didn’t realize that my first husband was a narcissist at the time. But he definitely was. It’s so much easier going through it the second time with all these videos and understanding the personality types. This time I’m dealing with a covert narcissist. I’m hoping I’m working my way off the chart!
Family court sanction of being uncooperative and unreasonable from opposing party. I’m going thru this right now. My ex and her legal team are narcissistic. I’m just watching 2trains derail with disregard of the child. But they showed their card by taking my son out of the country=international child abduction. Everything in this video is truth and I anticipated their actions.
As usual Dr. Ramani hits it out of the park and the guest attorney is very insightful too - 3 TOP FACTS I PICKED UP from this interview *FAMILY COURT JUDGES ARE UNJUST* ... If Family Court judges are NOT interested in the victims' TRAUMA then how or WHY should we expect them to be JUST? Makes absolutely no sense - *What's the point of going to Family Court?* To bankroll the Judges' and Attorneys' Lifestyles? The adoption of the *NO FAULT DIVORCE* doctrine is the BIGGEST BLESSING a Narcissist could have asked for. They wanted to be 'off the hook' from the get go and even before they step foot in a court room and the legal system did just that for them. Makes you wonder WHO the Family Court System is *really* serving! *CHILDREN HAVE NO VOICE OF THEIR OWN* .... The BIGGEST DOUBLE STANDARDS of all is that the Family Court System on one hand pretends to be the 'champion' of the children regurgitating B$ statements like judges always look at the 'best interest of the child' and yet when it comes to LISTENING to what the child has to say they turn a complete blind eye (or more accurately a 'deaf ear') and absolutely do NOT give any thought, seriousness, weight to what the child has to say! This to me is the most DISGUSTING side of the Family Court System. Based on this it is clear that the Family Court System is not a LEGIT legal *COURT* system. If it is simply run as a *BUSINESS* and only concerns itself with *procedures* and NOT the *dispensation of JUSTICE* (as both civil and criminal courts are obligated and legally bound to do) then there is no need for the Public to be incurring such high costs associated with going to Family Court. These same *procedures* can be privatized and handled outside the court and we can set up companies to both write up and dissolve marriage contracts for less than half the cost of going to court. Child Custody and Division of Property, similarly could be handled via mediation through these companies. Prenups /written marriage contracts should be standardized and made part of every marriage. All of these services should be offered for a very reasonable price so they stay affordable. This would then only leave divorce cases involving DV, abuse, wilful neglect and abandonment (of child and / or spouse) and I STRONGLY feel that, because if the violation of human rights involved, these particular cases should either a) be processed through the CRIMINAL COURT system (which is correctly Fault focussed) or b) these should be the ONLY cases that Family Court System should be allowed to look at going forward. However, for (b) to work the 'NO FAULT DIVORCE' doctrine would have to be REVOKED first or we will be back to Square One. If (b) is not possible then it would be best to *ABOLISH and DISSOLVE the Family Court System* because it would not be serving any function at that point as divorces involving DV / abuse would be handled by the CRIMINAL COURT whereas divorces NOT involving DV / abuse would be settled out of court by private companies (since Divorce is already just a *BUSINESS* as attorneys, judges and even some segments of the public have finally started acknowledging)
After watching this all of my fears about what it will be like to leave filled me with absolute dread. After surviving cancer and still healing while also shrinking in a narcissistic marriage, I dont think I have the inner warrior inside to withstand the torment of a divorce. I KNOW he would be every bit of the evil that was described. He also has complete control of all funds. This really hurts. Thank you for the extreme honesty here.
Don't dread!!! I made it out!!! You will too. Healed and Whole..find a good therapist who is familiar with narcissist abuse..above all ..Pray and TRUST God to bring you thru!!❤
Greetings Dr Ramani, This episode is a Godsend to me. I initiated a divorce after 31 years of marriage to an abusive and utterly narcissistic spouse. I'm really grateful for this advice, as I prepare for this divorce process. thank you for introducing me to Demetria Graves, what a wealth of information! I recently sought out a Therapist and I hear you clearly about how vital it is to keep emotions in check in a court, Thank you Dr Ramani for this crucial message to be strategic , tactical and supported🙏❤
married 18 years, I filed after dv-his actual words “gloves are off” 3 years later very successful in mediation as he failed to disclose despite multiple orders that stemmed from his narc lawyer filing so many wasteful claims. It’s a marathon that I might not have survived without a great group of friends, a councillor and a divorce coach. By the way he tried to label me as an alienator. Classic I changed lawyers and it was done in 6 months. He succumbed to hate and died the day after our mediation/arbitration. Thanks for this great presentation
This brings so many memories. It’s been so long since I thought about any of this.I don’t know why I decided to listen to this video. I’m a big fan of Dr. Ramani. I wish I knew what I know now when I was divorcing my malignant narcissist years ago.Everything they’re discussing I’ve lived through. My abuser even tried to deport me. As an immigrant away from my family and my abuser being the one in charge, I didn’t think I’ll stand the chance against his narcissistic attorney.I want everyone to know that there are better days. It’s been 8 years for me and I’m thriving. Please, never give up.
After watching the hell my parents went through in their divorce (they were both narcissists and the divorce lasted 4 years). Divorce scared the shit out of me. When it was my turn to get a divorce from my narcissist ex-husband, I decided to hit hard and fast. I didn't really sit down and talk with him about it beforehand (he used divorce as a threat to get me to do what he wanted. That was us 'talking' about it). I waited and when the time was right (and I had money in my bank account) I took the divorce papers (saying we both agree to divorce and there would be no fighting) and I put them in front of him and said "If you don't want me to hire a lawyer and fight you for every damn penny you own, then you'll sign these papers now and make this divorce as easy as possible." (He was a trust fund baby, and this scared him). Luckily, it worked, and he signed the papers and was on good behavior for a month until the divorce was finalized. (Strangely, my divorce was finalized the same day my narcissistic father died, and my ex-husband kicked me out of the house the same weekend as the funeral.)
I was only married to the narc for 15 months but it felt like 15 years. He wanted me dead to get my life insurance, then he wanted my house... then in the divorce he wanted alimony. We had no kids or property together and he wanted to ruin me. The judge wasn't having it and granted the divorce.
My soon to-be-ex husband married me to get my house. Period. 6 years of hell. I wouldn't comply, so he tried to kill me. Getting away from them is the only way to survive.
We need a group of professionals like these two to collaborate and come up with a personality evaluation for narcissistic behavior in the court system before starting a litigation. What a waste of legal and social resources to accommodate narcissist’s ambitions. For over four years now I have been trying to divorce my narcissist who is a former lawyer as well. He dragged me through everything that was discussed in this interview and more…canceled four mediations and fifth one was useless. Quit working, no child support and filled a ton of motions. We finally are making it to our first trial. I wish I’d have heard this interview years ago, I would not have aged 20 years like I did in the last four.
I was just kicked out of a home I shared with my partner for 6 years with all four of my kids… we only share the youngest. I tried so hard to make things work and took the narc abuse as internally as possible so it would affect my kids less… but after leaving and going to my parents home with my kids while I try to put our lives back together… I’m in my 40s and homeless (with my kids no less) for the first time and it is devastating. We’re living out of the trash bags of our stuff that I was able to fill with the police standing by… so I only had a short time to try to get all of the kids most important things. So, now I’m starting over with almost nothing… and I have to say, it is a small price to pay for peace. I pray that all of you out there in these abusive relationships can eventually find your peace too. ❤
Some people should never ever ever ever get married. Nor even get into serious relationships. They were too *irreparably* broken way before meeting their future ex-partners, ex-spouses. This is especially true of those who turn out to be pathological narcissists as adults. I won’t dismiss the idea of marriage for everyone but some people need to take themselves out of circulation, out of the dating pool, & quit ruining other people’s lives.
Not all do that. Some trigger you and you find yourself over explaining. The one I’m married to, goes quiet and then I’m expressing myself because I feel he’s ignoring me. I’ve learned to no longer do that anymore.
Luckily I found a good attorney after I faced the facts of the trauma bond with the narc. I was in so much denial and trauma that I tried to fix my marriage and made some mistakes on the legal process. It has cost me alot with my power being sucked out of me. I am not wasting any tome or money and breaking free from the unhealthy bonds and most of all marriage. Namaste. Thank you Dr R and Ms. D esquire
21:35 Exactly this. That was/is my experience. It has taken me since 2020 to be able to answer my phone, read email, not cringe when there is a knock on the door. My daughter told me, about 5 years into the divorce, that she was having trouble sleeping because, “Daddy says he is going to make you homeless and broke.”
Thanks for another good talk. It's good to know we are not alone. I have been through the gaslighting but I didn't know what it was. When I realised something was wrong which was bills not getting paid, I called my daughter to see if she thought I was losing it. She said mum dad is gaslighting you I had to ask her what she meant, she she told me. I felt it painful the person who was suppose to love me was doing this to me. Manipulation was the same. It's only through these channels I have been educated. It's been so painful dealing with it and I have cried a lot. I have called him out on things and he denies it or blames me. I used to be afraid but not anymore. I have not spoken to him for 7 months. I do my own thing. I'm so grateful to you for you helping me. ❤😊
My husband's first wife was a narcissist. He filed for divorce. She exploded and told him that she would ruin him and he shouldn't think that she couldn't. After 3 years in court, the judge decided to grant a bifurcated divorce. He probably thought that would shut down her nasty games. It didn't. The property settlement was given 3 years later. By that time, he and I were married for 2 years. His ex never remarried. She continued to file claims that she was not getting ANY child support even though my husband was garnished from day one. The court bookkeeping was crap to put it nicely. Then, there was interest on the questionable missing child support. Eventually, the alleged arrears were over 50,000 dollars. It ended when my husband died 23 years later, but only after they tried like hell to collect them from me as a marital debt. That didn't work.
Dr. Ramini is a BLESSING!! Thank you for what you do... these are difficult topics to cover but ESSENTIAL in our healing process. I personally had several litigious feuds, not Divorce-related though... And i must say, all of these pointers that Ms. Graves presented our SPOT ON!... Many of which I had even used MYSELF, having been self-represented and luckily winning both trials... Narcissism in court is an experience like NO other... and i believe that, at this age in my life, marrying ANY person is FUTILE if without proper contingencies in place... for instance, like a Prenup or perhaps a secondary form of income. I honestly prefer just dating and having a swell time rather than committing to a particular one individual for whom i have little background information. Taking time to get to know people are IMPORTANT! Thanks again ladies! ❤💚💜💛💕
This discussion was incredibly helpful. It helped clarify how I can help my husband, who was recently divorced from a woman who didn't really take parenting seriously, and only wanted 50% custody for the money. I have given him some of the advice mentioned here, one of which is "Don't engage." on anything that is not specific to reporting medical or other factual information relating to the kids. Just say "have your attorney reach out to my attorney." Don't argue. Don't justify. Don't explain. Edit: He has four boys, two are in the Army, and two still living at home. They are amazing kids and I love them. The youngest is 15 and is very damaged by the significant neglect from his mother. It is an honor and a huge responsibility to be there as a mother figure for him. I never, ever, disparage his mom, just listen.
I’m only -10 minutes into the podcast… everything on the checklist is accurate. So accurate. I wish I had heard this back in 2014 when I decided to divorce my narcissistic ex-husband. It took 6 very long years. I ran out of money to fight, so he won. Everything.
You guys are so awesome! I've felt off and on over the years - and especially since I've grown in my understanding of narcissism - that I needed to get out of my badly toxic marriage, and still believe that would be the healthiest and most logical thing to do at my age, with grown children and for the remaining years I have left. You brought up the dreadful issue of not considering the high stakes and potential problematic issues before marriage, and my wife and I did not even come close to covering that base. Subsequently, I've had so much regret to work through. 🤪
Mr. Bersteiger I actually went through 4 months of premarital counseling with my husband prior to marriage. We were together four years prior to marriage. The most charming man I ever met. Immediately after married things gradually changed. Then they lies and gastlighting then love them verbal abuse and witholding intimacy. My biggest regret is believing anything he ever said. I totally am sorry for what you have been through. I did not know people like this existed. I came from a honest moral upright family and I trusted too easily. The hardest part is forgiving myself. I pray for each and every person that has survived this abuse.
Omg thank you for this. My ex totally alienated me from our son and my friends, physically challenged me, visited my own family and tried to keep them as friends to badmouth me, and ong I can not even go on. 😢
There is no system so uniquely suited to attract and amplify the worst traits and behaviors of the narcissistic personality than the family law courts and the legal justice system in general. From the ultimate power trippers (judges) to the win by any means necessary lawyers to the smaller (and most vicious due to their limited powers in small ponds) court mediators and security personnel, the levels of abusive power tripping know no bounds. As a legal specialty, family law is the most outdated and highly confrontational area of law. The careers of millions of people depend upon the domestic illnesses of millions of others. The more contentious the better for all involved except for the children who are used as the ultimate leverage in every way possible. Additionally, since it comes straight out of the patriarchal playbook it contains language, law, and ideology which puts children in the category of property (think ownership of people level grossness) and pits the most abusive and power hungry against the most vulnerable in public settings, what we end up having is a continuation of the old world public square shaming. I ask you to consider why it is necessary for what started out as an emotional/spiritual bond, that combined the lives of two people needs to be separated in a public space, especially considering that these proceedings end up encouraging the most mendacious, cruel, and destructive legal attacks. Now consider that there is not much to be done about the other person lying and framing the other as the worst human on the earth. There is no remediation for this because the system rewards the person who says the biggest lies first. THE COURT DOES NOT CARE about abuse and it actually punishes the person who points it out because it makes them appear manipulative. Family law is a broken and twisted system that does not work except for the people who are great at using it to serve their own interests; ie the most narcissistic. This is not the criminal system (which also has serious problems) and there will be no “justice” because no one cares about protecting the people who have less power, usually the spouse who is not abusive and corrupt and most definitely children and pets. It’s a disgusting system and it will break a good person in the most long lasting and painful ways. Now as a final thought, consider how extremely dangerous this entire process can become for the person who is trying to leave their abuser and protect their children. The process of family law allows the abuser to not only win total custody, but they can also legally attain any and all personal and medical records of the person who definitely has the need for shelter and privacy. The abuser can control the life and ultimately attempt to destroy and dismantle the victim. Imagine the consequences and violent fall out from the abuser gaining access to the entire text history of the victim to their parents or best friends. Imagine what happens after this “discovery” outside of the courtroom? The anger and danger that these processes amplify and propel at the victim. This is why I am saying there is no other system we participate in that is more dangerous and more harmful to children and abused spouses than family law. Family court washes its hands off any particular situation as soon as they leave the courtroom. No one is actually really invested in the quality of lives over a childhood or the masters of trauma and the consequences of being forced to live with the abusing and manipulating parent. The effects this has on their lives and relationships. The effects this has on society as a whole in the areas of the economy and health and mental wellbeing of millions of people. How many generations of people have had their lives ruined and had the quality of their lives decline in education and social abilities. The abusers who are created by example. The fallout from this is enormous and much more complex than anyone has realized. It really should be something that is seriously studied by every sort of social scientists. Currently we only have people like Dr. Ramani examining this. And while she is stellar, she is also just one person. We have to change our ways. If we truly want the world to change we must critically consider the way our institutions harm us while we assume they work for us. They do not and in fact they undermine us when we are at our lowest. This is no way to order a society.
The perverse cruelty I witnessed in domestic violence incidents I had to deal with in a job I did for 17 years didn’t open my eyes (I grew up in such a toxic dangerous environment), but it gave me clarification and perspective and explanation of the dynamics and technical legal terms and the stupid games narcs play. Having to prove initially on balance if probabilities of offences to get DV orders for victims because they refused to protect their own kids for various (always inadequate) reasons, to proving offenses beyond reasonable doubt certainly helped me spot a DV abuser and victim quite quickly. Since I had been ‘groomed’ as a child by a violent abuser and a terrified unwitting enabler from a young age, I initially saw verbal and physical abuse and toxic behavior and gaslighting as something that must be accepted- though I never did and was subjected to it regularly so I would ‘be compliant’.💀. I moved far away at 21 to do this job. Rarely saw the family I grew up with but the 3 violent abusers I grew up with- well I’ve gone no contact with them since Mum died. They slowed their abuse when I went grey rock but amplified it once I came back physically close to them to help care for Mum as she was dying. One waited until Mum was ‘out of the house for good’ (just like old times), before she went for the full blown toxic verbal abuse and cruel actions. As Mum didn’t specify in the will who her belongings would go to, my sister and father have ensured what was to go to me and my kids as Mum requested to them as she was dying, will never get to us. I’m not fighting it. They are far too poisonous, too toxic, too violent and abusive to be around, let alone interact with. They are now complaining to other family members that I’ve cut contact. Lying saying they are the victims and some are buying it- with no evidence mind you. I called out the abuse to others outside the family and it got back to one abuser who claimed I’ve now made everyone’s life a misery and she is the one who has been the most abusive and cruel in her actions. A truly perverted sick individual. I’m done. My husband knows what has occurred and wants me to never speak to these people again or our children to have anything to do with them. I totally agree. I understand why spouses / siblings kill their abuser. They’re just getting in first - to get the abuser to - just… stop. Abusers will never stop abusing until they are either in solitary confinement, in a coma or dead.
Thank you doctor I appreciate all that u have shared your channel has helped me tremendously in protecting my peace. Blessings to both beautiful women helping people❤
Thank you so much this was truly an outstanding conversation with the Attorney Demetria! She was outstanding! I am going through a divorce now with a covert narcissist and everything you all discuss was extremely helpful!
I had a 5 year marrage and a 10 year divorce, every 2 weeks in court, endless assessments and grilling, and the lies! and twisted reality and manipulation i did feel as though i was loosing my mind. It was horrendous!
I left my EX. After 29 years months ago I left with noughing but my clothes and finally just got my own place feeling blessed every single day. God's giving me more confidence and peace eveday. I can file for my divorce in September. Working on myself and relationship with my children
I was married for 34 yrs to a narcissist. I didn't even know what that was, till I was totally crushed. I loved him with all I have. I finally found out he was such a deceitful person. He made me believe I was always the bad person and so worthless. God gave me evidence of him having sexual relations with his daughter. God is still helping me with mental health.
That’s exactly where I am in my miserable marriage. I’m at 34yrs & have been trying to find my way out. Every time I’m ready to end it, I mistakenly share what I’m contemplating with someone in my religion. Each time I’m reminded that divorce is only allowed for adulterous reasons. Although my long term mental abuse has resulted in being diagnosed to have clinical depression, others just don’t understand & guilt me to stay. Abuse is abuse! Whether physical or mental, abuse is dangerous to the recipient.
He initiated the divorce , thought that would hurt me. Once I got the ball rolling he refused to comply and communicate with my attorney .He was silly because as he acknowledged being served I could move forward with the proceedings . Out of his narcissistic rage he dared me while he was living his double life. 11 months after no communication and me informing him prior that it’ll cost if he doesn’t comply (I payed all the fees) . He was so drunken by his arrogance ( thinking I wouldn’t leave because this wasn’t our first rodeo) all while parading his new supply ( it’s the lack of fore-site for me). Anyway In the email hoovering because he was blocked everywhere begging for us to meet face to face to sign papers , I responded “ my solicitors sent you the final paperwork 2 months ago,we are no longer married,now leave me alone “ During the discarding he was big and bold so this reaction was not what I was expecting . Infact It was extremely wired like he became a child I was communicating with a child . A bittersweet moment because I realised I was playing chess and checkmated a child. A child who wasn’t ready for the big world. (Like that movie with Tom Hanks “BIG” when he deflated at the end) It was weird because it was my moment to feel victorious but I felt sad I pitied him, I felt angry because it was a game for him all along ( I love children, I would do anything to bring joy to my Nephew’s life) I didn’t became drunken with power and that wasn’t fair considering the disrespect,insults and abandonment. It was one of the weirdest feeling ever to experience. The divorce wasn’t something I wanted to do it was a thing that I needed to do as the Adult in that dynamic,as an adult you have to make tough decisions. My nephew who turned 9 years of age last week,whom I love and respect his wishes and boundaries If it were up to him ,he’ll stay in his favourite theme park all day until closing time but as the adult I have to make the final decision when it’s time to go home . Sending hugs 🫂 healing and recovery to you all 🌸
My ex is the rare friendly presenting controlling person. The ultimate “nice guy” victim that’s willing to give you “everything” but then goes back and changes “everything” to suit them…all with a smile until you object to something. Then they do a show of anger that makes it look like you are the one that’s being unreasonable in the face of all that faked niceness and generosity. It’s a trip. He got everything he wanted. Drug the whole thing out for hours until we were all frustrated and just wanted to leave.
I guess I should consider myself lucky after marrying a psychopath and a narcissist. At the time I did not even know what either really was. I got married older in life and I put very little energy and resources into the wedding, even though it was great! And my ex who is 13 years older, at the age of 50 convinced me that we shared many of the same common values and I realize later he had become the person that I wanted and needed at the time. Comes from a very well-known family from another English-speaking country, that has almost as high of a living standard as we do, and has led a life of privilege. There were literally no red flags the beginning and all of my friends and family became very endeared to this man who seemed so selfless. Right after we had the ceremony and reception, everything changed. His rage started peeking out several months later, and I experienced being the victim of some very unsettling and strange crimes. He would literally go out for happy hour, I wouldn't hear anything from him all night and he would arrive home drunk at 3:30 or 4 in the morning on a work night, and often when he got home he would just terrorize me by yelling and screaming at me. Because I had sponsored him, I couldn't just kick him out of my house, and the kept saying Love Me or Leave Me starting about 6 months into the marriage. Shockingly about a year until the marriage I came home from work and he and all his belongings had disappeared with absolutely no warning. He got his green card, and I think he really wanted access to my network a very influential policymakers, as well as access to my finances. He got the first and not the second and third, and by that time was already with another woman and probably thought that he wasn't able to get anything more from me and was extremely angry about it. Of course he did this right before Thanksgiving which he knew was my favorite holiday. He spent Christmas with my closest friends and Neighbors, and later found out that he started a smear campaign with them probably 6 months or more from the date of leaving me. I asked him what his reason was for leaving and he said that if he continued to stay with me that I would have a negative effect on his credit. I started seeing a therapist because all of these crazy things were happening, and this man being extremely charming and cunning had even co-opted my entire family. I'm glad that I went to see her because she told me flat out that this man is a psychopath and potentially dangerous. I began realizing that he had been using all sorts of Insidious manipulation tactics like ambient abuse straight out of the movie Gaslight. The stuff he was doing with clearly sickening. I immediately went Grey Rock without knowing it was a term and perhaps back then it wasn't! Despite having tons of resources, and securing a whole team of lawyers, I found it very strange. I consulted with several lawyers and they basically said you guys have been married for a year you have no community property and there's really nothing to dispute. Where I live abuse only is considered when it is physical. So there's nothing I could really say about that. Furthermore I was very careful because I did not want to anger him. Not having a lot of funds at the time I had no lawyer representing me. I had my cousin go with me to the hearing for moral support. He didn't dispute anyting and I think if he had even tried it could have exposed him for basically using me, because he left not too long after getting his green card so he was smart enough not to raise anything. Furthermore all of his money was in offshore financial institutions and he kept everything very hidden. So if something triggered the system to require him to relinquish his financial records, furthermore that would put him under additional scrutiny. So ironically for me this process was very easy and I represented myself! Even as the victim of narcissistic abuse! Having to see him at the hearing made me so anxious, and when the courts were preparing the paperwork and divorce decree they asked us to wait in the back of the courtroom. My ex proceeded to sit down right next to me and start massaging my back. This absolutely made my skin crawl. And I had to get out of there. My cousin who is with me and noticed, and pulled me out to go get some coffee downstairs and then wait in the the hall. My advice is as soon as you detect there is a narcissist or psychopath that you were duped by and married, start seeing a therapist and start crafting a plan. Fortunately my own intuitions stopped him from getting into my finances and other things that he could have messed with. Find a way to get out as soon as you're able and if you can't get out because the abuser is living in your home, make sure you do not give them anything that you think that they want. They will see no use for you and they will leave. And the most important thing is to never have a child with one of these people or that will ruin the rest of your life. I ended up having a child whose father is somewhat narcissistic, but he's really not sophisticated like my ex-husband. He became abusive right after my daughter was born and I was able to get a restraining order to get him to leave my house and to leave my daughter and me alone. Despite the fact that I had a restraining order and supervised visits we're not being done because of the pandemic, the family courts basically disregarded the domestic violence Court's ruling and made me in charge of supervised visits. They eventually gave him unsupervised visits in which he would take my daughter and his car without a proper car seat. She was like one or two years old. He would also show up with alcohol on his breath and pick her up and take her away. Despite telling the court this and the fact that both of these things are not only extremely unsafe, they're both illegal. Oh, and yes he also had a reckless driving charge on his record that was not terribly old at that time. They didn't care at all. And I was forced to give up my daughter to a man who didn't care about her safety. So when they say that the family courts are all about giving rights to the abusive one. They don't care that another Court in the same court system found him to commit domestic violence, but basically do things with our daughter that put her In Harm's Way. It was really surreal for me. Fortunately he moved out of state, and the visits ended. He didn't even want to talk to her on video phone. I eventually got the courts to grant me child support. But not wanting to pay this and having several things on his record to include the domestic abuse, he knew that as a green card holder, the courts would eventually track him down and he could risk his status. So he signed over all of his rights. Life has been very hard, even though I don't have to deal with any of his BS anymore. But I had never planned to be a single mother, and it's been 4 years since I've been able to work, and have not had a day off ever since. Having to fund everything myself and not being able to get any assistance whatsoever because I own a 2-unit dwelling, and receive rental income from one of them, it renders me ineligible. I deal with a lot of anger especially stemming from the part that he manipulated me into having a kid with him, and this was actually not our first because the first go-around did not go smoothly, and I felt that he was invested and having a kid. I never expected he'd be the father of the year but I never expected that he would put me through hell, only to completely abandon his daughter. Even though I'm not obligated I allow him to chat with his daughter and he has no interest. It just also makes me really sad for her. I guess the moral of the story is that there are cases where it is not in the narcissist interest to fight, because it could expose them. And even after years of fighting in the family courts, some narcissists end up backing out completely because when required to take on certain responsibilities they don't like, they just give up.
I just stumbled across this video and Omg! This topic is so needed and important for people to watch. Fortunately, my ex-husbands were not narcissists and both of my divorce experiences were agreeable and handled easily by paralegal filings. Both in California. But I have met narcissists in other aspects in life and they are self-centered and unpleasant.
Thank you for a super spot on analysis of these kind of divorces! I wish I could have had this input 9 years ago! Never knew there was something called narcissism, but that self important insistence on control, no matter what, nails it! Feel this is a discussion that should be presented at school level, as a life skill. You're both brilliant! Thank you!
I am presently in divorce property division proceedings. She has narcissistic traits on top of CPTSD & DID, all professional diagnosed. So, during our arguments I was working with 5 personalities or pieces of her personality. I have had depressive disorder most of my adult life & the mental/emotional/verbal abuse put the Complex to my PTSD. I appreciate your & the lawyer advice. Thanks
question, we’re the diagnoses made prior to filing divorce by a mental professional or was this discovered by a professional during an evaluation during divorce?
This information was enlightening, educational and extremely thought provoking. Excellent lawyer representation. “What’s love got to do with it.” “Nothing, just a second hand 🖤 emotion.”
In 2016, I left the father of my daughters. 2017, we had a DV, cops were called, and I was arrested for assaulting him. ( I was just trying to get away while he was strangling me) so I hit him. He was arrested for having a gun, and he's a felon. CPS picked up.my kids we both went to jail, and CPS said he was the victim even though he was a felon with a gun when the incident happened. His background are Drive by shootings and selling firearms to a federal agent. Yet CPS closed my case and gave my kids to their dad. Ever since then, I have been fighting to get my kids back. I've spent so much money on attorneys. 1 attorney actually started using meth and took my money. Shocker!! I beat my DV case, and now I saved enough money to hire another attorney. All I want is 50/50 and my dad's father just will not settle next month we go to trial. For what? For nothing.just cause he's so mad at me for leaving and moving on. I guess I really will never know why or even get closer.
I have so much respect for attorney Demetria that she did realize she wasn't up to dealing with a narcissist and she did her research and became and expert in how to handle them at court! Thank you in the name of all your clients and other people carrying heavy memories of narcissistic abuse. I wish that all professionals would do this, attorneys, doctors, teachers, preachers, counselors etc, and would continue being interested in what they are doing and would keep learning. It was such an uplifting experience for me to watch this interview. Thank you Dr. Ramani!
So true. I lost my relationship with our teenaged children. But now I live a life without abuse. I hope to rebuild with the (now grown) children in the future.
Sadly, as a therapist; I had to walk my friend through this. Her attorney was great! But he didn't understand narcissism. The judge ordered her and her traumatized kids into family therapy with her abusive narcissistic ex-husband🤦🏾♀️
This topic hits close to home. My husband's childhood bestfriend married his then girlfriend right after graduation; She convinced him to move them to California so she could join the military. And he cut off all contacts with family and friends back home. After 10 years, he reached back out to my husband, admitting that he was going through a divorce (should have listened to my husband to not rush into marriage), had been kicked out of the house, and was lost and confused. Once back in our homestate, he admitted that their marriage and sex life died after 5 years, but he held on until his wife filed for divorce and took everything they owned.... ~sigh~ I have never seen such a broken person, who still loves the other person :(
I filed after 20 years without telling him. It was cut and dry because we didn’t have nothing to fight for. I walked away with nothing but my peace & sanity. I’m so glad I finally got the strength to do it. I’ve been Free for 8 months
SO happy for you! Congratulations!
Congratulations! You are a courageous fabulous person.
I'm filing after 23 tears....Im 😊 happy.....God bless you❤
Sometimes the narcs don’t walk away they wanted out all along but have to find a supply before they leave and they lie about the affair they have while married but never admit it and act like they just happen to be together. Bull ! They are not honest . They are times people mess up but they should owe up to it and not expect the innocent spouse to keep them up and use it for their own selfish sinful ways … they should be open and tell the truth that they don’t love someone enough to be faithful and just flipping go on !!! If the spouse wants to make a settlement then that’s their choice. But it’s awful people play goody toe shoes til
They do something! It’s ok as long as they do wrong but boy they don’t wanna be done wrong ! Hypocrisy!
Same here…my health and peace of mind was more than enough for me.
They don't just want to "WIN!" They want to *hurt-&-harm!*
Their aim is to destroy you and win, they are going straight to hell
100% true!!!!
Thank you. I need to remember that! Going through the divorce!
That is an understantment
I believe it, even when they say they don’t.
The abrupt realization that you put so much investment and time in someone who never cared for you is tough
That part
Yes, this is the gut blast that hit me the most when I realised. Luckily the freedom I have helps me get over it.
Exactly what I'm feeling right now. 16 years for NOTHING
Very
I'm there right now its very relaxing knowing how much better the future is.
19 year marriage
8 year court battle
$600,000 my legal fees
Despite this, leaving was absolutely the best decision! My recommendation is gather as much documentary evidence in the year before leaving. Stay strong and stand firm on your truth!
Ya, got myself out but my precious son is dealing w parental alienation plus trauma bonding. 🙏s please!!
I’m sorry you went through that. Me too. 50K in and I’m so sad about it
@@lynghee159hang in there. I’m sorry. We are all here for you
@@Luke747gal take scanned copies of all financial documents for yourself & your husband held jointly and in sole names. For example bank statements, any business documents, superannuation balances, share holding and investment statement of holdings and any transaction notices, any employment earnings, tax returns , loan agreements and balances outstanding, property purchases and sales etc. Also, if you have any children take scanned copies of any school reports and medical reports
God bless you❤
At the end of my 3 year divorce from a Covert Narcissist, the Judge "suggested" at the end of her written ruling that I could potentially sue the other side for legal fees due to "non-cooperation". I did & I was awarded 1/3 of my attorney fees.
Good! They were on your side!
Did you collect however ?
@@ladyluck5248 right! Being awarded and collecting is something I’d like to know if that happened.
Brilliant
@@ladyluck5248 I’m also interested in hearing this. I am not pursuing lawyers fees because I’ve heard quite often they don’t pay them.
My ex husband was such a narcissist, he enrolled a law degree in the middle of a divorce (which is now in its 5th year). In the beginning, he was hiring barristers and then realised that he is "cleverer" than them, i.e. they were so "stupid" they couldn't convince judges to believe his lies. Let me also say that he already has a degree in electrical engineering and has had a lucrative career in IT. He has abused every venue of appeal and even applied to the European Court of human rights. He didn't want to pay child maintenance so the children had to endure a DNA test. When the children and I left unbearable hell of family home in a shelter, he changed the locks and rented the house to three young women (living there with him). We managed to kick him out. God gives me strength to deal with this freak and I can't wait to see how he is going to deal with him in the end. People, especially women need to be educated to spot a narcissist from a mile. They are a plague to a human race. I am so glad I left him, it is priceless.
I agree. We need to better spot this type.
What advice or red flags would you say?
Oh Mylanta! Lana, you're an inspiration.
They are indeed a plague. Speaking of experience
I'm glad you and your children are free from that crazy time in your lives and have a much better future ahead. Prayers 🙏
I know your joy, and anguish. Congrats on your victories along the way. What was your dad like? My mom was tremendous, so I kept expecting my narcissistic partner to be normal. So she got away with SO much due to my naivete.
14 years married, 17k 9 month divorce. My ex was a narcissist in every way. He just text me yesterday relitigating the divorce 3 years later because he lost big. Thankful for full custody of my 2 kids. This was such an interesting podcast. My divorce cost me everything but freedom is priceless.
They did the same on child support cases as well!! Mines is still attempting to gaslight me every chance he gets because he lost big but he is the one that hired and attorney to intimidate me!!! Didn’t work!! I won big💪🏾🏆
@Ericka Hill Most of the time.... a true Narc really dont want the kids thats why they dont take care of the financially after the breakup!! If they want custody of the kids its to hurt u but gather all evidence of abuse and malice towards u and the kids get a great lawyer thats going to fight for u!
@erickahill1761i wonder the same thing
how did u get full custody? did u go to trial?
I feel you! 17 years married, $33k 11 month divorce. You're right, freedom is PRICELESS!
Let them feel they’re in control, play them at their own game, let them think they’re winning.
Sadly there is no “winning” when you are dealing with a narcissist. There just isn’t.
me2!
There's small battles to be won. & if they think they are hurting you, when it doesn't, they won't try so hard to go another level and that is a win. So you claim, "No, a quick divorce, is the last thing I want!" 😉 a little reverse psychology 19:24
For them is a winning game.
@@herahagstoz6934let them “think” they’re winning so they don’t fight you as bad.
I have been a divorce attorney for 40 years and this is the best discussion on narcissistic divorces...really great...
Thank You for contributing. Real experience is a blessing
I read this online in a poster:
When a narcissist loses was control over you, they will control what others think of you.
18 years 8 months and 7 days and I got out. Have no home I am on every housing list and I came to survive in the middle of winter.
All that being said... my life is better than any day of that 18 years 8 months and 7 days.
It bad when you don’t know what a narcissist is and thing they do word they say what to expect all you know is you don’t really know the person you marri d to and they are abusie. I had to file D.or I be dead today this was man years ago
We much do study on what these witches; they craft. Mars’s oss is what is the specties how they attack they victims. What can the person victim can do to get free when they hav nothing wow so many not aware
I want you to know you are brave
Keep going forward!! Congratulations 🎉🎉
All the very best to you!
Not checking my inbox and it negatively affecting my work is SPOT ON! Seeing the narc’s name makes me physically ill and creates such an adrenaline rush.
@dawn6232... seeing their name, seeing their car or even a car like theirs, smelling their cologne, hearing their voice on voicemail creates anxiety.
@@BeeBeeBell I highly recommend EMDR therapy to process that crap. It also has roots from childhood that need to be processed. EMDR is a game changer.
Neuro emotional technique to integrate trapped trauma is also excellent.
This is so me. 🤣🤣🤣
Yes! I also suffer from full body pain and now have high blood pressure and had to deliver the baby early. I couldn’t keep the pressure down he floods me with texts and calls
The only way to take control from a narcissist is to get yourself from their domain first. You wont be able to figure out anything until and unless you are out of the hellish world. I will tell you one of my favourite stories. Once a King was too disturbed by everything that was happening around him. He felt as if no one was loyal to him and he was always afraid of his kingdom being attacked by perpetrators. He lost his sleep and his life had become hell. So he thought of taking a brief sojourn in the countryside. He passed through lush green fields and picturesque landscapes. The silent breeze that brushed through his hair filled his heart with joy. That is when he saw a farmer who was putting fence around his farmland. But his farmland had weeds all over and they hardly had any crops. This intrigued the King. He asked the farmer as to why was he putting a fence around the farm when the farm itself was covered with weeds. To this the farmer said that the farm was his own so he could get rid of the weeds whenever he liked. But he cant stop the stray dogs from running over his fields and destroying them. That is why he was putting the fence. To stop the stray dogs from venturing into the field. Once he was very assured about the security of his fields he can work on clearing the weeds and planting crops. On hearing this the King somewhat got the answer which he had been searching for. The human mind is also like the field. You cant control assholes from fiddling with your mind or saying bullshit. But you can definitely put a fence ( figuratively) so that these assholes cant influence you. And until and unless you dont put a fence you can never work on yourself. Once you have distanced yourself from toxic people then you can work on the healing process. Same is the case with narcs. Narcs are these stray dogs who suck your energy emotionally. They play mind games for fun because their mind wants melodrama. They hurt the very people who love them. So total isolation from these narcs is absolutely essential for the well being of your Mind. Once you are out of their mind games you can take decisions rationally. Narcs try to drain you emotionally. So everytime you respond to their low vibrations you tend to come to their level. But when you react confidently without panicking and without responding to their negative vibrations that is when you Win. When someone realises that you arent being influenced or being manipulated by their actions they will get tired of it. And after cutting them off completely from your lives you should work on your healing process. Work on clearing your mental clutter and keep yourself preoccupied. Read books and most importantly try to find your Purpose in life. When you find your Purpose you will be able to bear any pain in this World. Most importantly help others in need. When you find someone else who is stuck with a narc help them to get out of that. I feel this is the way to take control from a narcissist. P.S: I hardly find people around me who know about emotional abuse. But I think everyone should read and know about it. In today’s mean world you will find a lot of people who try to influence you or demoralise you using the sweetest of words. Its about identifying these covert manipulators and distancing yourself from them. I have immense respect for people who have survived narcissistic partners. They happen to be the most strongheaded and emotionally stable people you can come across. I learn a lot of things from them. Truly the broken will always be the most beautiful. Moreover, People wonder why they end up hurt, seriously hurt, and even killed for their own actions. Cheating is a choice and there’s simply a lot of ignorance in the process.... Thank you so much for helping me out Barryinvestigation@gmail. com. Your advice and services helped me so much. You are a lifesaver !!! The information you gave me about my cheating partner when you gave me access to his phone was everything I needed to get,.. thank you very much..
Thank you so much for this insight❤
This is such important information. I am now divorced after 36 years of marriage to a difficult narcissist. Thankfully my attorney was upfront about going to court telling me that only the attorneys would win. My attorney said my ex was the most difficult person she had dealt with in her long career. The Narc-Ex had a replacement for me before I even left the home and my children learned of his new wife on Facebook (his go-to for supply) My "settlement" ended up being a fraction of the 1/2 it should have been & my physical and mental health suffered as did the health of my adult children. It was a nightmare, but I am free. Still lots of rumination about the new woman in the home I made even so far as wearing the clothing I had to leave behind when I covertly left. Please keep educating people including attorneys and judges.
Praying for you. Don’t worry about the new woman you are free of the toxicity and the ex is her problem. Keep pouring positivity and light into yourself
Wow! Literally identical to my story. Still awaiting divorce be finalized after 35+ yr marriage; our adult daughters also suffering from mental health and trauma; he does live with new woman and flaunting her on social media and everywhere. I am unbothered by that. But I hate that divorce is taking so long.
She's going to be his problem. They normally end up getting more than what they bargained for.
Isaiah 35:5,6
Psalms 37:10,11
Psalms 37. Very conforting! Thanks Holy Spirit.
I’ve been divorcing a malignant narcissist for almost 5 years. Even hardened judges have a hard time seeing that they are dealing with a sick person.
I can’t even divorce my narcissist I just feel like death might be the only way out. Can’t afford to leave I’ll lose what little I have and yet nothing means anything to me. He is the hardest person I’ve ever dealt with in my life. I just don’t even know what to do at this point. Too depressed to make plans to leave too depressed to look for extra work or want to work a second job to stay steady on my feet. It’s hell. I haven’t had a clear mind in years and nobody understands except the people who’ve maybe gone through this. It’s the strangest thing to ever deal with then having to deal with the trauma in your head.
I’m currently divorcing a narcissist and I can definitely relate. Please, find whatever brings you peace and cling to it (going into nature, working out, venting to a trusted friend/ loved one, etc.) you will crawl out of that depression and be just fine, but you have to fight! Please consider reading Vibrate Higher Daily by Lalah Delia also The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Don’t give up.
@@JohannaD7288 thank you! I’m trying our lease is up next month I’m thinking I’ll make a clean break there because this isn’t life. It’s so dreary. ♥️
@@sophiyahsunflower7259 thank you! I’ve tried to do the same I pray on a regular and find myself praying so fast and sometimes forget what I’ve prayed about but I do need to take the time and talk to God and let him direct me! Thank You🩵
@@shansmith7100 oh yea. That’s definitely gonna help. Our Lease is up in July and I cannot wait!! All the best! Sending healing and strength your way ❤️
Don't loose hope, i spent 6 years into this and about to begin the divorce process. See if you can stay away contactless with the narc.
Demetria is really good. I divorced a full fledged narcissist & all this is true. Best approach was to be the "reasonable" one & the one being willing to "compromise" to come to a "solution" (whether you want this or not). Emphasize you support the kids "loving" the other parent & vice versa. This IS what judges want to hear. The narcissist will NOT support this, this even triggers them & they do "themselves" in. This was hard but was so effective & worked!!! Took me 3 yrs.
I'm about to start filing for divorce any other advice please
@tamarasmith5127 please have people or a therapist you can talk to please 🙏🏽
me2!
Me 3
@@tamarasmith5127 just seeing this. Hope things have gone well. But leaving a narc, please put your safety first. Don't confront him, don't discuss. Act submissive (even though you're not!). But never back down in your demands for child support, fair visitation, punctuality, etc. In court, judges want to see your willingness to cooperate, compromise, & that you support visitation. They also want to see your willingness to work. Give them what they want to see. Goal is to walk away safely, with a custody decree & child support. All the best. A big hug.
Started putting all my special stuff and my belongings in my truck. Took a small vacation to Tennessee, procured a job, went back, packed a few more things, gave my 2 week notice, said my goodbyes, and moved into an abandoned, condemned cabin, fixed it up a Lil, in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, so happy I abandoned him and all my other stuff. Freedom from him is worth the loss of the house/money...
So Happy for you! ❤️ That’s Exactly what I want and was even looking to move there once Everything is over! I just started the process and papers have been filed. Wish me luck!❤️
Some of us can't just give up our home.
I found this lawyer’s advice to be priceless. She’s amazing and a breath of fresh air. Much respect for both of you encouraging ladies. ❤
It’s horrible and very expensive to litigate against a narcissist
This should be illegal with a person with npd they should be able to submit that being not in mental state of mind going around an mentally messing people up with there abuse they should. Not have a small tiny chance to say anything at all due to there unstableness it’s not even fair for those of us that wasn’t even toxic or narcissistic in any way at all I’m invovled in a narcissistic marriage right now an each time she gets mad she yells out you no what I can’t take this marriage nomore just get the divorce I’m done it’s way too much for me an I’m sick an tired of waking on eggshells I really am
Really great but triggering. I will say premarital counseling is such a laughable suggestion. If marriage counseling is a bad idea with a narcissist, what do you think premarital counseling will do? I went through premarital counseling with my ex narcissist. I think it was just the perfect venue for more love bombing and future faking, and gave him the complete playbook on how to manipulate me since I was actually being honest.
Good point! Makes perfect sense to me! So sorry for your struggles, hugs 🤗
Wow so messed up. Almost no one gets it.
Counseling is just a way for the disordered partner to catalog your traumas and weaknesses and to manipulate the therapist into thinking you're the "primary patient. " They will use your vulnerability in counseling to further abuse you by by exploiting what you disclosed in therapy. If you have children, they will do the same thing in therapy with the children. The truth eventually comes out but not for years and by then the collateral damage is done. The kids will end up traumatized in the divorce.
Exaaaactly!! Well said !
Well said. It was his playback meanwhile I was basically just his prey the whole time, willingly attending premarital counseling
I file for divorce after 37 years with a Narcissist it was easy he didn’t respond to the serve so I was happy our children were adults so it took 7 months and I was free as a bird
I think that is the way when children are grown because otherwise it is a long war with the most damage on children. How did you cope with him in marriage?
This is what I’m doing. I just focus on making each day good for my kids and when they’re adults, I’ll file. Idc about $, so… I only want peace without traumatizing our precious children ❤
I took the same route after 35 years. Thankfully our children don’t buy into the bullshit they saved my life.
Magnificent gratitude beautiful SOUL, I needed this, I'm saving 4 divorce but it's crazy expensive. I'm very concerned but even being afraid, I am moving FORWARD. THANKS 4 SHARING UR EXPERIENCE BEAUTIFUL SOUL 🎉🎉🎉BEST OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND HAPPINESS 💓🌟💖🌞
@@ThenextpersonSorry beautiful but your children are damaged staying anymore, I stayed caz I didn't know my children are adults but he's using them still today and I'm only four months away after 42 years married to the MONSTER. After finally leaving - he kicked me out Thank GOD, but blaming me and killed my chickens and my cat and then another family destroyed. He's crazy and I say plan don't feel the regret of your children. Only one of my sons is an acholic bcaz of this abusive situation after years. I love U with full support, there are many resources and many people willing 2 help ❤🎉❤🎉❤BEST OF LUCK 🎉🎉🎉
Honestly, this is one of the best interviews I have seen on this topic. Thank you both. Everyone should know this information.
🙌🏾
@@tijeraslack3,y
I agree. A very knowledgeable and "seasoned" attorney. Just the kind anyone going up against a Narc. needs! And Regardless, of the situation.
More power to her and us!!!
Information and support on divorcing a narcissist is a much needed resource. Could you do one on how to navigate custody battles with a narc ex please? This seems to be where they really have a field day.
100% true
Yessss, I need the custody battle interview. Currently going through that and fully expect to have to fight repeatedly until my child turns 18. The narcissist will never give up and will do anything to try and crush any ounce of happiness or success their ex obtains. I'm fighting this war one battle at a time.
Yes please. There's not enough talk about divorcing a narc when children are involved. This is the only fear I have leaving my husband.
Experienced divorce attorney here. (Pennsylvania and New Jersey). An ounce of prevention (vetting very carefully before getting married, or staying single) is the safest way to proceed in any relationship. Great video! Stay safe out there!
Never get married 😢
Most people do not realize who Narcissistic spouses really are until they have been married for years. The brainwashing is beyond one can comprehend.
Such an unhelpful statement once people are already in it and need to divorce.
The point is understood, but this is actually victim blaming and very harmful to those in this situation.
Experienced divorce attorney are you trying to be helpful here? Or did you post on here by accident?
Even if you don’t get married but you have children together, the process steamrolls children and the non abusive spouse. Family law is the appendix of our justice system and is due for an appendectomy because it’s full of sh!t.
Due to the nature of our civil justice system and its inherent bias towards the individual with the highest tolerance for wearing a mask in public, there is almost no ceiling for the amount of damage that can be inflicted on the other person and by proxy, the children.
My ex used the threat of bringing me back to court to take more custody of our children whenever I disagreed with him or he felt that I was challenging him in any way. This was his go to threat when he wanted to keep me in my place. My children and I spent over a decade living with this and I cannot tell you how much mental and emotional distress this caused us.
I had to weigh the consequences of not standing up for the needs our children had against the danger of being expelled entirely from their lives. I had to learn how to minimize and debase myself in order to practice a kind of mental jujitsu. This kowtowing technique looked really bad from an outside perspective but it was really the only way to avoid high conflict and achieve any positive results. The downside is that it further undermined my previously damaged self confidence. I was never able to take a direct approach and have this recognized as a strength by others. My immediate family in particular could just not understand why I would not simply stand up for myself or how it was possible that I lost custody in the first place. They just couldn’t believe me when I told them that the court didn’t want to hear about his shady manipulation and how harping on this only made it easier for him to highlight my supposed incompetence to be a stable co-parent.
Both of our children are adults now and he is paying for their therapy. Neither of them trust him much and I now get to enjoy them both without the threat of him taking them away. Instead, he now uses his leverage with their health insurance as control, but it is much less effective and would require him to justify this to his family. He is terrified of being perceived as a less than responsible father and this keeps him from carrying out the worst of his threats.
The damage he continues to cause them is unimaginable as his love and support are constantly contingent upon them performing their duties as children, which is as confusing and impossible as that sounds. They know I love them unconditionally and so I hope that will be enough for them to value their self worth by. None of us is truly recovered from the years of impending legal threat and we must work at it daily to restore stability and peace.
Family law is no safe space and it continues to be the arena for all the worst aspects of humanity to play out on a public platform. It would be a more honest representation of what family court is about if there were stockades or other equally as shame inducing equipment that were used. I think it would be a popular idea for the voyeuristic public to throw trash and rotten food at the “bad” actors. In essence this is what happens when your audience is only interested in displaying your private information in the worst possible way in order to weaponize it so that conflict is encouraged and punishment is imposed by proxy of your own children (or pets).
Every time I left the courtroom with less custody than I came in with a piece of my soul died. Every time our young children looked at me and said “We lost again, didn’t we?” it took a sledgehammer to my chest. Each time he called me names, degraded my self esteem as a parent, and threatened to take me back into court for another public shaming, a chunk of my confidence and pride cracked off and floated away. There was nothing I could do except bend myself into whatever shape he wanted in order to maintain physical contact with my children. There was nothing just or in the best interest of the children involved.
And so we became survivors with scars. Recovery will be a lifetime. And I never married him. Family court is the weapon of choice for the narcissist, married or otherwise. Critical family law theory must be established to fully address what is actually happening in this modern day scold’s bridle of a institution.
What to do when the narcissistic spouse has made you so isolated that there is no support system? They have 100% financial control. And your reputation is ruined
🎉I’m in the same boat.
Find employment nearby
Sell everything you can
Get on gov assistance
Get a gov apartment
Go uni part time
Get gov or corporate job
Be quiet 🤫 about everything!!!
Pray pray pray & save save save check out @Treasure Kingdom she does a live and individual counselling on TH-cam - I pray you are built back up again
there is always a way out. Find a local charity, they helped me, free legal aid, go to your church. Friends will help, too. I was in the same situation for 20 years before I realised there was a way out. They make you feel you are helpless, they are wicked. Be brave and leave him. God is with you, pray to Him and He will help.
You have described my situation, my narc ex husband chucked me and my children out of the house. I live far from my family. Had to ask for government help, sought out help in every way including advice from social worker. I promise there is always a way out you just have to ask the right people. It won’t be easy but it is worth it. I now have my own place with my babies and have gone back to uni. Hope the best for you ❤
I’m in the same boat with you and now in a mental health clinic due to my wife’s claims. Today she topped it all…had a messenger come to hand deliver a court non molestation order at the mental health clinic to me. My whole life is gone and all because she can say anything and the courts will accept it and I can’t as a man have any defence
It's literally fighting with the devil. Lord help us in Jesus name.
It is.
Me too.
Absolutely the truth. Everyone of these statements. I saw this statement in a poster online:
When a narcissist loses control over you, they will control what others think of you.
So, so true. Without any conscience of what it said or the damage it will do to you.
U been recognized
People are people. Religion is religion. My narcissistic abuser was a religious leader and the church upheld his infidelity and abuse.
Wow this one was FANTASTIC!!! Please bring Demetria in another time in the future. This was so insightful and she’s so smart but also gives information in a very light, easy to digest way. Idk if it’s just me? I loved this episode.
This was a superb interview. It brought home how narcissists think, how they operate and how much damage they can do.
Wow, this is a wake up call! Not worth this kind of stress, glad im single and no more Narc in my life. Period, dot, end of story.
Happy for you. Please keep it up.
Just rub it in our faces why don’t ya🤦♀️🤣😑😜
Ms. Graves really knows her stuff and YES the courts are absolutely slanted toward narcs. Poor children and women who are not being served justice.
Not just women, men go through this as well
@@christynahai yes, but it’s usually women who are affected by this
@@christynahai yes absolutely agree and I know some. Men are physically and economically more privileged than women. I factor that into the equation.
Yes.
@@livinggood6876 Also factor in that women are favoured in court.
We need more people like ms Graves! Honestly!
This is an excellent podcast. I wish I had found an attorney like Ms. Graves when I went through a divorce from a diagnosed sociopath 18 years ago. I went through 3 attorneys and ran out of money before I could find appropriate counsel. The worst case scenarios that are described in this podcast happened to me and traumatized me for life. I had documented everything but it did not help when push came to shove because the family courts and judicial system did not recognize the existence of narcissistic personalities at the time, even though I had medical proof of the ex's personality disorder. My children went through hell because of the situation, were forced to spend a weekend a month at their dad's place even though they contested it, and are still dealing with the confusing and gut-wrenching aftermath 16 years later. Divorce is difficult in the best of situations, but divorcing a sociopath raises this to a whole different level of pain and injustice.
These issues are true with female Narcissists too! Maybe worse as they employ flying monkeys.
You are so right ! NEVER UNDERESTIMATE the Narcissist.
The email! Omg I thought it was just me. 2 years after my divorce and I still have to psych myself up to check it twice a week. Divorce ptsd is very real. Don’t get married folks. Or only do so with a rock solid pre-nup.
Demetria is fully equipped of all the knowledge on how to provide rekevant answers to these narcissism issues. She's so brilliant that aliigns well with the interviewer's pursuits for sensible solutions to all her questions
My ex husband did agree to mediation. And while we went through it, it was super emotional as he was antagonistic and didn’t want to give in on certain things. Even now, he recalls that he “trusted the wrong people and got screwed”. If anything this episode prepared me that he will eventually take me to court, so that “he can win”! I save all his antagonistic text messages.
My ex forced 6 mediations on me out of state with zero intention of “mediating” one thing.
His entire motivation- to drain me financially ( as we had to split cost of mediation- and OF COURSE- he would use the entire 8 hours and at the final hour say no to everything😉 just so I was charged the full amount…- and to torture me and frighten me with threats. I was never so emotionally drained in my life.
What’s shocking is the court system seems to either not see this abuse or not care.
The trial isn’t always the end… 3 year marriage, divorce- out of state- 6 mediations, 2 full trials, at least 50 motions against me, had my bank records subpoenaed, work records subpoenaed, literally the country store across the street from where I lived had a subpoena presented to them to give all receipts of my purchases! My work harassed, oh my favorite- having a constable sent to my work not home which he knew that address with the sole intention of embarrassing me, my child’s school harassed ( and the smear campaign of my character I had no clue about), calling family members, sent devices to our child w listening capabilities for him, forced FaceTime every night w our 5 yr old for hours- which of course she didn’t have that attention span so really it was to spy on us, and well over 100k spent by me alone. It’s STILL ONGOING- we split in 2011. Most importantly and what enraged me the most- our child has been so traumatized by a system that was supposed to prioritize her!! What a joke.
When I say these people are monsters, evil, manipulative, hell bent on winning and destroying you with zero empathy- I’m not kidding. Nevermind our child being brainwashed against me. How I didn’t off myself? I’m damn strong.
I need to say THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU- to this attorney.. this work has to be maddening, talk about stressful- and she doesn’t need to practice in this area… THANK YOU for helping the victims of this. I had no idea, made every mistake, my mental health was shaken, I truly feel tortured by all of this. I felt so alone, so you are God sent!! You are saving children. Truly
Thank you! I m ready! 'Try to make him snap' what makes a narcissist snap? Your happiness... fake it before you make it!
What a Gift to the world you two women are!
My divorce was brutal in 1994... still talking to my kids about issues that began back then.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani and Dimitria❣️
11 years married, no children, no physical violence. I had my narc professional husband served papers. He didn't want to sign & proceed with a divorce, but told me he wanted me to come back so HE could save $ on taxes, no love mentioned of course. 16 years separated, he sold our home & he recently paid cash to have a bigger, new house built & furnished & lives there now. Our attorneys cost us each >$30,000. He hid so many assets, collectibles, stocks, accounts & LLC & he worked the system. Fortunately I had some of that paper proof, but not all. Money & control mean everything to him! This is a great podcast & I sure wish I'd seen it earlier! Our case was just finalized by the court last week & I didn't get much in the divorce settlement. Meanwhile he is retired now, still brings in $9,000 K/month & flaunts it. I will stay clear of narcassistic men & will never marry again.
'The more we engage, the most it's going to cost, and it's not getting us anywhere.' @15:20 WOW this is SPOT on as a general understanding of the true cost of dealing with a narc. Thank you so much for that gem. I don't know how I missed this episode, but it's a wealth of knowledge especially coming from the logical, contractual, by-the-book mindset of a lawyer.
A toxic / narcissistic system will always favor toxicity / narcissism. We really messed things up.....
Sad but true. Maybe it’s time for a change. Maybe it’s time for the ACLU to get involved.
I am a month late, but this is true. 😔
Amen.
This is the absolute truth. Cuz anytime you show any kind of an emotion in court you're a crazy lunatic. The lack of empathy reads really well in the courtroom apparently vs your real time emotions
Thanks so much Ms. Graves and Dr. Ramani. It helps us to know that someone out there knows all about narcs and how they operate. It gives us strength to know that someone understands the situation.
While I agree, most people don't see someone with NPD in all their glory until it's too late. I know from experience that they are great pretenders. They play the long game, and will have you questioning yourself and all that you know. Even when you do start to become wise to what they are about, you are already conditioned to question your own judgement.
I had a text book Narcissit divorce in my first marriage, just as she discribes. My attorney finally slapped my ex with "abuse thru the court system". I'm sure that is not the correct term. That ended it all. We divorced. This was in 2002. I'm in Illinois.
How did you find out about NPD?
What is that?
NPD - narcissistic personality disorder
@@wendeezy456 sorry this took me so long to respond. I’ve just been learning about it now. I didn’t realize that my first husband was a narcissist at the time. But he definitely was. It’s so much easier going through it the second time with all these videos and understanding the personality types. This time I’m dealing with a covert narcissist. I’m hoping I’m working my way off the chart!
Family court sanction of being uncooperative and unreasonable from opposing party. I’m going thru this right now. My ex and her legal team are narcissistic. I’m just watching 2trains derail with disregard of the child. But they showed their card by taking my son out of the country=international child abduction.
Everything in this video is truth and I anticipated their actions.
As usual Dr. Ramani hits it out of the park and the guest attorney is very insightful too - 3 TOP FACTS I PICKED UP from this interview
*FAMILY COURT JUDGES ARE UNJUST* ... If Family Court judges are NOT interested in the victims' TRAUMA then how or WHY should we expect them to be JUST? Makes absolutely no sense - *What's the point of going to Family Court?* To bankroll the Judges' and Attorneys' Lifestyles?
The adoption of the *NO FAULT DIVORCE* doctrine is the BIGGEST BLESSING a Narcissist could have asked for. They wanted to be 'off the hook' from the get go and even before they step foot in a court room and the legal system did just that for them. Makes you wonder WHO the Family Court System is *really* serving!
*CHILDREN HAVE NO VOICE OF THEIR OWN* .... The BIGGEST DOUBLE STANDARDS of all is that the Family Court System on one hand pretends to be the 'champion' of the children regurgitating B$ statements like judges always look at the 'best interest of the child' and yet when it comes to LISTENING to what the child has to say they turn a complete blind eye (or more accurately a 'deaf ear') and absolutely do NOT give any thought, seriousness, weight to what the child has to say! This to me is the most DISGUSTING side of the Family Court System.
Based on this it is clear that the Family Court System is not a LEGIT legal *COURT* system. If it is simply run as a *BUSINESS* and only concerns itself with *procedures* and NOT the *dispensation of JUSTICE* (as both civil and criminal courts are obligated and legally bound to do) then there is no need for the Public to be incurring such high costs associated with going to Family Court. These same *procedures* can be privatized and handled outside the court and we can set up companies to both write up and dissolve marriage contracts for less than half the cost of going to court. Child Custody and Division of Property, similarly could be handled via mediation through these companies. Prenups /written marriage contracts should be standardized and made part of every marriage. All of these services should be offered for a very reasonable price so they stay affordable. This would then only leave divorce cases involving DV, abuse, wilful neglect and abandonment (of child and / or spouse) and I STRONGLY feel that, because if the violation of human rights involved, these particular cases should either a) be processed through the CRIMINAL COURT system (which is correctly Fault focussed) or b) these should be the ONLY cases that Family Court System should be allowed to look at going forward. However, for (b) to work the 'NO FAULT DIVORCE' doctrine would have to be REVOKED first or we will be back to Square One. If (b) is not possible then it would be best to *ABOLISH and DISSOLVE the Family Court System* because it would not be serving any function at that point as divorces involving DV / abuse would be handled by the CRIMINAL COURT whereas divorces NOT involving DV / abuse would be settled out of court by private companies (since Divorce is already just a *BUSINESS* as attorneys, judges and even some segments of the public have finally started acknowledging)
After watching this all of my fears about what it will be like to leave filled me with absolute dread. After surviving cancer and still healing while also shrinking in a narcissistic marriage, I dont think I have the inner warrior inside to withstand the torment of a divorce. I KNOW he would be every bit of the evil that was described. He also has complete control of all funds. This really hurts. Thank you for the extreme honesty here.
Don't dread!!! I made it out!!! You will too. Healed and Whole..find a good therapist who is familiar with narcissist abuse..above all ..Pray and TRUST God to bring you thru!!❤
Don’t let him control your life. Get mad and stand in your own strength. U do have the inner strength. Take it back
This is what's kept me from divorce FEAR !! 27 years of Hell !
Praying for you and your divine healing.
Don't let it scare you into thinking you're safe staying because you arent
Greetings Dr Ramani, This episode is a Godsend to me. I initiated a divorce after 31 years of marriage to an abusive and utterly narcissistic spouse.
I'm really grateful for this advice, as I prepare for this divorce process. thank you for introducing me to Demetria Graves, what a wealth of information!
I recently sought out a Therapist and I hear you clearly about how vital it is to keep emotions in check in a court,
Thank you Dr Ramani for this crucial message to be strategic , tactical and supported🙏❤
married 18 years, I filed after dv-his actual words “gloves are off”
3 years later very successful in mediation as he failed to disclose despite multiple orders that stemmed from his narc lawyer filing so many wasteful claims. It’s a marathon that I might not have survived without a great group of friends, a councillor and a divorce coach. By the way he tried to label me as an alienator. Classic I changed lawyers and it was done in 6 months.
He succumbed to hate and died the day after our mediation/arbitration.
Thanks for this great presentation
Wait do you mean he died like literally? Or it’s just a metaphor you using please?
@@ChristIsReal121 literally
Oh my GOD 😮. Instant Judgment.. Thank God you are safe now 🙏
This brings so many memories. It’s been so long since I thought about any of this.I don’t know why I decided to listen to this video. I’m a big fan of Dr. Ramani. I wish I knew what I know now when I was divorcing my malignant narcissist years ago.Everything they’re discussing I’ve lived through. My abuser even tried to deport me. As an immigrant away from my family and my abuser being the one in charge, I didn’t think I’ll stand the chance against his narcissistic attorney.I want everyone to know that there are better days. It’s been 8 years for me and I’m thriving. Please, never give up.
Bless you thank you for that !
After watching the hell my parents went through in their divorce (they were both narcissists and the divorce lasted 4 years). Divorce scared the shit out of me. When it was my turn to get a divorce from my narcissist ex-husband, I decided to hit hard and fast. I didn't really sit down and talk with him about it beforehand (he used divorce as a threat to get me to do what he wanted. That was us 'talking' about it). I waited and when the time was right (and I had money in my bank account) I took the divorce papers (saying we both agree to divorce and there would be no fighting) and I put them in front of him and said "If you don't want me to hire a lawyer and fight you for every damn penny you own, then you'll sign these papers now and make this divorce as easy as possible." (He was a trust fund baby, and this scared him). Luckily, it worked, and he signed the papers and was on good behavior for a month until the divorce was finalized. (Strangely, my divorce was finalized the same day my narcissistic father died, and my ex-husband kicked me out of the house the same weekend as the funeral.)
Good grief, I can see exactly this scenario all too well. Take care, and I hope the worst is behind you now. ❤
@@cc1k435 Thank you 🙏 I hope so too ❤
Well played.
I was only married to the narc for 15 months but it felt like 15 years. He wanted me dead to get my life insurance, then he wanted my house... then in the divorce he wanted alimony. We had no kids or property together and he wanted to ruin me. The judge wasn't having it and granted the divorce.
Wow 9 months that felt like 9 years for me. He switched the second I walked down the aisle
@cosmosprincess20 Yes. Mine too. The funny thing is no one believes me. They think he showed red flags but he didn't.
My soon to-be-ex husband married me to get my house. Period. 6 years of hell. I wouldn't comply, so he tried to kill me. Getting away from them is the only way to survive.
@@cathleenburton-noble418 Gurl!! I know! I believe you and I feel your pain. Real talk!
We need a group of professionals like these two to collaborate and come up with a personality evaluation for narcissistic behavior in the court system before starting a litigation. What a waste of legal and social resources to accommodate narcissist’s ambitions. For over four years now I have been trying to divorce my narcissist who is a former lawyer as well. He dragged me through everything that was discussed in this interview and more…canceled four mediations and fifth one was useless. Quit working, no child support and filled a ton of motions. We finally are making it to our first trial. I wish I’d have heard this interview years ago, I would not have aged 20 years like I did in the last four.
I was just kicked out of a home I shared with my partner for 6 years with all four of my kids… we only share the youngest. I tried so hard to make things work and took the narc abuse as internally as possible so it would affect my kids less… but after leaving and going to my parents home with my kids while I try to put our lives back together… I’m in my 40s and homeless (with my kids no less) for the first time and it is devastating. We’re living out of the trash bags of our stuff that I was able to fill with the police standing by… so I only had a short time to try to get all of the kids most important things. So, now I’m starting over with almost nothing… and I have to say, it is a small price to pay for peace. I pray that all of you out there in these abusive relationships can eventually find your peace too. ❤
Sending good vibes your way
This is why I don’t believe in marriage and I share my money with no one. I make sure I support myself as I never rely on anyone!
So smart!
Wise and Smart 👍🤓
Some people should never ever ever ever get married. Nor even get into serious relationships. They were too *irreparably* broken way before meeting their future ex-partners, ex-spouses. This is especially true of those who turn out to be pathological narcissists as adults.
I won’t dismiss the idea of marriage for everyone but some people need to take themselves out of circulation, out of the dating pool, & quit ruining other people’s lives.
Not all do that. Some trigger you and you find yourself over explaining. The one I’m married to, goes quiet and then I’m expressing myself because I feel he’s ignoring me. I’ve learned to no longer do that anymore.
First of all, you look beautiful Dr Ramani. This is a great topic. Guest knows her stuff. Appreciate and loving this new podcast. Thank you so much.
I love this lawyer . The voice so calm . How she explains so clear and on point .
I've learnt so much! Thank you for bringing this gorgeous and gifted woman!
Luckily I found a good attorney after I faced the facts of the trauma bond with the narc. I was in so much denial and trauma that I tried to fix my marriage and made some mistakes on the legal process. It has cost me alot with my power being sucked out of me. I am not wasting any tome or money and breaking free from the unhealthy bonds and most of all marriage. Namaste. Thank you Dr R and Ms. D esquire
21:35 Exactly this. That was/is my experience. It has taken me since 2020 to be able to answer my phone, read email, not cringe when there is a knock on the door.
My daughter told me, about 5 years into the divorce, that she was having trouble sleeping because, “Daddy says he is going to make you homeless and broke.”
Thanks for another good talk. It's good to know we are not alone. I have been through the gaslighting but I didn't know what it was. When I realised something was wrong which was bills not getting paid, I called my daughter to see if she thought I was losing it. She said mum dad is gaslighting you I had to ask her what she meant, she she told me. I felt it painful the person who was suppose to love me was doing this to me. Manipulation was the same. It's only through these channels I have been educated. It's been so painful dealing with it and I have cried a lot. I have called him out on things and he denies it or blames me. I used to be afraid but not anymore. I have not spoken to him for 7 months. I do my own thing. I'm so grateful to you for you helping me. ❤😊
My husband's first wife was a narcissist. He filed for divorce. She exploded and told him that she would ruin him and he shouldn't think that she couldn't. After 3 years in court, the judge decided to grant a bifurcated divorce. He probably thought that would shut down her nasty games. It didn't. The property settlement was given 3 years later. By that time, he and I were married for 2 years. His ex never remarried.
She continued to file claims that she was not getting ANY child support even though my husband was garnished from day one. The court bookkeeping was crap to put it nicely. Then, there was interest on the questionable missing child support. Eventually, the alleged arrears were over 50,000 dollars. It ended when my husband died 23 years later, but only after they tried like hell to collect them from me as a marital debt. That didn't work.
Dr. Ramini is a BLESSING!! Thank you for what you do... these are difficult topics to cover but ESSENTIAL in our healing process.
I personally had several litigious feuds, not Divorce-related though... And i must say, all of these pointers that Ms. Graves presented our SPOT ON!... Many of which I had even used MYSELF, having been self-represented and luckily winning both trials...
Narcissism in court is an experience like NO other... and i believe that, at this age in my life, marrying ANY person is FUTILE if without proper contingencies in place... for instance, like a Prenup or perhaps a secondary form of income.
I honestly prefer just dating and having a swell time rather than committing to a particular one individual for whom i have little background information. Taking time to get to know people are IMPORTANT!
Thanks again ladies! ❤💚💜💛💕
This discussion was incredibly helpful. It helped clarify how I can help my husband, who was recently divorced from a woman who didn't really take parenting seriously, and only wanted 50% custody for the money. I have given him some of the advice mentioned here, one of which is "Don't engage." on anything that is not specific to reporting medical or other factual information relating to the kids. Just say "have your attorney reach out to my attorney." Don't argue. Don't justify. Don't explain.
Edit: He has four boys, two are in the Army, and two still living at home. They are amazing kids and I love them. The youngest is 15 and is very damaged by the significant neglect from his mother. It is an honor and a huge responsibility to be there as a mother figure for him. I never, ever, disparage his mom, just listen.
DRr. Ramani, no words can express how thankful I am for this podcast ep.
The Peace gained worth getting away from those Lost ppl... 🕊️
love you guys for bringing this to light. the judges and courts need to recognise this. ! im going through this right now !
Its the hardest, am going through it right now and its the most devastating thing ever
I’m only -10 minutes into the podcast… everything on the checklist is accurate. So accurate. I wish I had heard this back in 2014 when I decided to divorce my narcissistic ex-husband. It took 6 very long years. I ran out of money to fight, so he won. Everything.
You guys are so awesome! I've felt off and on over the years - and especially since I've grown in my understanding of narcissism - that I needed to get out of my badly toxic marriage, and still believe that would be the healthiest and most logical thing to do at my age, with grown children and for the remaining years I have left. You brought up the dreadful issue of not considering the high stakes and potential problematic issues before marriage, and my wife and I did not even come close to covering that base. Subsequently, I've had so much regret to work through. 🤪
Mr. Bersteiger I actually went through 4 months of premarital counseling with my husband prior to marriage. We were together four years prior to marriage. The most charming man I ever met. Immediately after married things gradually changed. Then they lies and gastlighting then love them verbal abuse and witholding intimacy. My biggest regret is believing anything he ever said. I totally am sorry for what you have been through. I did not know people like this existed. I came from a honest moral upright family and I trusted too easily. The hardest part is forgiving myself. I pray for each and every person that has survived this abuse.
I left my ex in 2018 at 55 years of age. It is never too late to be happy!
Omg thank you for this. My ex totally alienated me from our son and my friends, physically challenged me, visited my own family and tried to keep them as friends to badmouth me, and ong I can not even go on. 😢
A service to humanity. Thank you for posting.
There is no system so uniquely suited to attract and amplify the worst traits and behaviors of the narcissistic personality than the family law courts and the legal justice system in general. From the ultimate power trippers (judges) to the win by any means necessary lawyers to the smaller (and most vicious due to their limited powers in small ponds) court mediators and security personnel, the levels of abusive power tripping know no bounds.
As a legal specialty, family law is the most outdated and highly confrontational area of law. The careers of millions of people depend upon the domestic illnesses of millions of others. The more contentious the better for all involved except for the children who are used as the ultimate leverage in every way possible.
Additionally, since it comes straight out of the patriarchal playbook it contains language, law, and ideology which puts children in the category of property (think ownership of people level grossness) and pits the most abusive and power hungry against the most vulnerable in public settings, what we end up having is a continuation of the old world public square shaming.
I ask you to consider why it is necessary for what started out as an emotional/spiritual bond, that combined the lives of two people needs to be separated in a public space, especially considering that these proceedings end up encouraging the most mendacious, cruel, and destructive legal attacks. Now consider that there is not much to be done about the other person lying and framing the other as the worst human on the earth. There is no remediation for this because the system rewards the person who says the biggest lies first. THE COURT DOES NOT CARE about abuse and it actually punishes the person who points it out because it makes them appear manipulative.
Family law is a broken and twisted system that does not work except for the people who are great at using it to serve their own interests; ie the most narcissistic. This is not the criminal system (which also has serious problems) and there will be no “justice” because no one cares about protecting the people who have less power, usually the spouse who is not abusive and corrupt and most definitely children and pets. It’s a disgusting system and it will break a good person in the most long lasting and painful ways.
Now as a final thought, consider how extremely dangerous this entire process can become for the person who is trying to leave their abuser and protect their children. The process of family law allows the abuser to not only win total custody, but they can also legally attain any and all personal and medical records of the person who definitely has the need for shelter and privacy. The abuser can control the life and ultimately attempt to destroy and dismantle the victim. Imagine the consequences and violent fall out from the abuser gaining access to the entire text history of the victim to their parents or best friends. Imagine what happens after this “discovery” outside of the courtroom? The anger and danger that these processes amplify and propel at the victim. This is why I am saying there is no other system we participate in that is more dangerous and more harmful to children and abused spouses than family law. Family court washes its hands off any particular situation as soon as they leave the courtroom. No one is actually really invested in the quality of lives over a childhood or the masters of trauma and the consequences of being forced to live with the abusing and manipulating parent. The effects this has on their lives and relationships. The effects this has on society as a whole in the areas of the economy and health and mental wellbeing of millions of people. How many generations of people have had their lives ruined and had the quality of their lives decline in education and social abilities. The abusers who are created by example.
The fallout from this is enormous and much more complex than anyone has realized. It really should be something that is seriously studied by every sort of social scientists. Currently we only have people like Dr. Ramani examining this. And while she is stellar, she is also just one person. We have to change our ways. If we truly want the world to change we must critically consider the way our institutions harm us while we assume they work for us. They do not and in fact they undermine us when we are at our lowest. This is no way to order a society.
👏👏👏👏 I 💯 agree!
The perverse cruelty I witnessed in domestic violence incidents I had to deal with in a job I did for 17 years didn’t open my eyes (I grew up in such a toxic dangerous environment), but it gave me clarification and perspective and explanation of the dynamics and technical legal terms and the stupid games narcs play. Having to prove initially on balance if probabilities of offences to get DV orders for victims because they refused to protect their own kids for various (always inadequate) reasons, to proving offenses beyond reasonable doubt certainly helped me spot a DV abuser and victim quite quickly. Since I had been ‘groomed’ as a child by a violent abuser and a terrified unwitting enabler from a young age, I initially saw verbal and physical abuse and toxic behavior and gaslighting as something that must be accepted- though I never did and was subjected to it regularly so I would ‘be compliant’.💀. I moved far away at 21 to do this job. Rarely saw the family I grew up with but the 3 violent abusers I grew up with- well I’ve gone no contact with them since Mum died. They slowed their abuse when I went grey rock but amplified it once I came back physically close to them to help care for Mum as she was dying. One waited until Mum was ‘out of the house for good’ (just like old times), before she went for the full blown toxic verbal abuse and cruel actions. As Mum didn’t specify in the will who her belongings would go to, my sister and father have ensured what was to go to me and my kids as Mum requested to them as she was dying, will never get to us. I’m not fighting it. They are far too poisonous, too toxic, too violent and abusive to be around, let alone interact with. They are now complaining to other family members that I’ve cut contact. Lying saying they are the victims and some are buying it- with no evidence mind you. I called out the abuse to others outside the family and it got back to one abuser who claimed I’ve now made everyone’s life a misery and she is the one who has been the most abusive and cruel in her actions. A truly perverted sick individual. I’m done. My husband knows what has occurred and wants me to never speak to these people again or our children to have anything to do with them. I totally agree. I understand why spouses / siblings kill their abuser. They’re just getting in first - to get the abuser to - just… stop. Abusers will never stop abusing until they are either in solitary confinement, in a coma or dead.
👏
Wow this is so true and sick. Well written
Thank you doctor I appreciate all that u have shared your channel has helped me tremendously in protecting my peace. Blessings to both beautiful women helping people❤
Holy Guacamole. I’m just beginning the process of separating and this has blown the top off my head! Thank you so much!
Thank you so much this was truly an outstanding conversation with the Attorney Demetria! She was outstanding!
I am going through a divorce now with a covert narcissist and everything you all discuss was extremely helpful!
I had a 5 year marrage and a 10 year divorce, every 2 weeks in court, endless assessments and grilling, and the lies! and twisted reality and manipulation i did feel as though i was loosing my mind. It was horrendous!
I left my EX. After 29 years months ago I left with noughing but my clothes and finally just got my own place feeling blessed every single day. God's giving me more confidence and peace eveday. I can file for my divorce in September. Working on myself and relationship with my children
Prayers for your peace and relationships restored
I was married for 34 yrs to a narcissist. I didn't even know what that was, till I was totally crushed. I loved him with all I have. I finally found out he was such a deceitful person. He made me believe I was always the bad person and so worthless. God gave me evidence of him having sexual relations with his daughter. God is still helping me with mental health.
That’s exactly where I am in my miserable marriage. I’m at 34yrs & have been trying to find my way out. Every time I’m ready to end it, I mistakenly share what I’m contemplating with someone in my religion. Each time I’m reminded that divorce is only allowed for adulterous reasons. Although my long term mental abuse has resulted in being diagnosed to have clinical depression, others just don’t understand & guilt me to stay. Abuse is abuse! Whether physical or mental, abuse is dangerous to the recipient.
@@hankshaw5466 listen to dr. Clarke
@@hankshaw5466 th-cam.com/users/liveUrQunCc94b8?feature=share
God bless you!🙏🏽
@@hankshaw5466what you do you divorce that evil, then ask God for forgiveness! Period!
Thank you for validating me. This is incredibly useful information. Very much appreciated 🙏
I divorced after 30 years. My Bishop acted as an in between and just saved me! Physical and psychological abuse almost did me in. But I survived!
Quietly and strategically
He initiated the divorce , thought that would hurt me. Once I got the ball rolling he refused to comply and communicate with my attorney .He was silly because as he acknowledged being served I could move forward with the proceedings . Out of his narcissistic rage he dared me while he was living his double life. 11 months after no communication and me informing him prior that it’ll cost if he doesn’t comply (I payed all the fees) . He was so drunken by his arrogance ( thinking I wouldn’t leave because this wasn’t our first rodeo) all while parading his new supply ( it’s the lack of fore-site for me).
Anyway In the email hoovering because he was blocked everywhere begging for us to meet face to face to sign papers , I responded “ my solicitors sent you the final paperwork 2 months ago,we are no longer married,now leave me alone “
During the discarding he was big and bold so this reaction was not what I was expecting . Infact It was extremely wired like he became a child I was communicating with a child . A bittersweet moment because I realised I was playing chess and checkmated a child. A child who wasn’t ready for the big world. (Like that movie with Tom Hanks “BIG” when he deflated at the end) It was weird because it was my moment to feel victorious but I felt sad I pitied him, I felt angry because it was a game for him all along ( I love children, I would do anything to bring joy to my Nephew’s life) I didn’t became drunken with power and that wasn’t fair considering the disrespect,insults and abandonment. It was one of the weirdest feeling ever to experience.
The divorce wasn’t something I wanted to do it was a thing that I needed to do as the Adult in that dynamic,as an adult you have to make tough decisions. My nephew who turned 9 years of age last week,whom I love and respect his wishes and boundaries If it were up to him ,he’ll stay in his favourite theme park all day until closing time but as the adult I have to make the final decision when it’s time to go home .
Sending hugs 🫂 healing and recovery to you all 🌸
My ex is the rare friendly presenting controlling person. The ultimate “nice guy” victim that’s willing to give you “everything” but then goes back and changes “everything” to suit them…all with a smile until you object to something. Then they do a show of anger that makes it look like you are the one that’s being unreasonable in the face of all that faked niceness and generosity.
It’s a trip. He got everything he wanted. Drug the whole thing out for hours until we were all frustrated and just wanted to leave.
THIS. A hundred million times this.
I guess I should consider myself lucky after marrying a psychopath and a narcissist. At the time I did not even know what either really was. I got married older in life and I put very little energy and resources into the wedding, even though it was great! And my ex who is 13 years older, at the age of 50 convinced me that we shared many of the same common values and I realize later he had become the person that I wanted and needed at the time. Comes from a very well-known family from another English-speaking country, that has almost as high of a living standard as we do, and has led a life of privilege. There were literally no red flags the beginning and all of my friends and family became very endeared to this man who seemed so selfless. Right after we had the ceremony and reception, everything changed. His rage started peeking out several months later, and I experienced being the victim of some very unsettling and strange crimes. He would literally go out for happy hour, I wouldn't hear anything from him all night and he would arrive home drunk at 3:30 or 4 in the morning on a work night, and often when he got home he would just terrorize me by yelling and screaming at me. Because I had sponsored him, I couldn't just kick him out of my house, and the kept saying Love Me or Leave Me starting about 6 months into the marriage. Shockingly about a year until the marriage I came home from work and he and all his belongings had disappeared with absolutely no warning. He got his green card, and I think he really wanted access to my network a very influential policymakers, as well as access to my finances. He got the first and not the second and third, and by that time was already with another woman and probably thought that he wasn't able to get anything more from me and was extremely angry about it. Of course he did this right before Thanksgiving which he knew was my favorite holiday. He spent Christmas with my closest friends and Neighbors, and later found out that he started a smear campaign with them probably 6 months or more from the date of leaving me. I asked him what his reason was for leaving and he said that if he continued to stay with me that I would have a negative effect on his credit. I started seeing a therapist because all of these crazy things were happening, and this man being extremely charming and cunning had even co-opted my entire family. I'm glad that I went to see her because she told me flat out that this man is a psychopath and potentially dangerous. I began realizing that he had been using all sorts of Insidious manipulation tactics like ambient abuse straight out of the movie Gaslight. The stuff he was doing with clearly sickening. I immediately went Grey Rock without knowing it was a term and perhaps back then it wasn't! Despite having tons of resources, and securing a whole team of lawyers, I found it very strange. I consulted with several lawyers and they basically said you guys have been married for a year you have no community property and there's really nothing to dispute. Where I live abuse only is considered when it is physical. So there's nothing I could really say about that. Furthermore I was very careful because I did not want to anger him. Not having a lot of funds at the time I had no lawyer representing me. I had my cousin go with me to the hearing for moral support. He didn't dispute anyting and I think if he had even tried it could have exposed him for basically using me, because he left not too long after getting his green card so he was smart enough not to raise anything. Furthermore all of his money was in offshore financial institutions and he kept everything very hidden. So if something triggered the system to require him to relinquish his financial records, furthermore that would put him under additional scrutiny. So ironically for me this process was very easy and I represented myself! Even as the victim of narcissistic abuse! Having to see him at the hearing made me so anxious, and when the courts were preparing the paperwork and divorce decree they asked us to wait in the back of the courtroom. My ex proceeded to sit down right next to me and start massaging my back. This absolutely made my skin crawl. And I had to get out of there. My cousin who is with me and noticed, and pulled me out to go get some coffee downstairs and then wait in the the hall. My advice is as soon as you detect there is a narcissist or psychopath that you were duped by and married, start seeing a therapist and start crafting a plan. Fortunately my own intuitions stopped him from getting into my finances and other things that he could have messed with. Find a way to get out as soon as you're able and if you can't get out because the abuser is living in your home, make sure you do not give them anything that you think that they want. They will see no use for you and they will leave. And the most important thing is to never have a child with one of these people or that will ruin the rest of your life.
I ended up having a child whose father is somewhat narcissistic, but he's really not sophisticated like my ex-husband. He became abusive right after my daughter was born and I was able to get a restraining order to get him to leave my house and to leave my daughter and me alone. Despite the fact that I had a restraining order and supervised visits we're not being done because of the pandemic, the family courts basically disregarded the domestic violence Court's ruling and made me in charge of supervised visits. They eventually gave him unsupervised visits in which he would take my daughter and his car without a proper car seat. She was like one or two years old. He would also show up with alcohol on his breath and pick her up and take her away. Despite telling the court this and the fact that both of these things are not only extremely unsafe, they're both illegal. Oh, and yes he also had a reckless driving charge on his record that was not terribly old at that time. They didn't care at all. And I was forced to give up my daughter to a man who didn't care about her safety. So when they say that the family courts are all about giving rights to the abusive one. They don't care that another Court in the same court system found him to commit domestic violence, but basically do things with our daughter that put her In Harm's Way. It was really surreal for me. Fortunately he moved out of state, and the visits ended. He didn't even want to talk to her on video phone. I eventually got the courts to grant me child support. But not wanting to pay this and having several things on his record to include the domestic abuse, he knew that as a green card holder, the courts would eventually track him down and he could risk his status. So he signed over all of his rights. Life has been very hard, even though I don't have to deal with any of his BS anymore. But I had never planned to be a single mother, and it's been 4 years since I've been able to work, and have not had a day off ever since. Having to fund everything myself and not being able to get any assistance whatsoever because I own a 2-unit dwelling, and receive rental income from one of them, it renders me ineligible. I deal with a lot of anger especially stemming from the part that he manipulated me into having a kid with him, and this was actually not our first because the first go-around did not go smoothly, and I felt that he was invested and having a kid. I never expected he'd be the father of the year but I never expected that he would put me through hell, only to completely abandon his daughter. Even though I'm not obligated I allow him to chat with his daughter and he has no interest. It just also makes me really sad for her. I guess the moral of the story is that there are cases where it is not in the narcissist interest to fight, because it could expose them. And even after years of fighting in the family courts, some narcissists end up backing out completely because when required to take on certain responsibilities they don't like, they just give up.
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I just stumbled across this video and Omg! This topic is so needed and important for people to watch. Fortunately, my ex-husbands were not narcissists and both of my divorce experiences were agreeable and handled easily by paralegal filings. Both in California. But I have met narcissists in other aspects in life and they are self-centered and unpleasant.
Thank you for a super spot on analysis of these kind of divorces!
I wish I could have had this input 9 years ago!
Never knew there was something called narcissism, but that self important insistence on control, no matter what, nails it!
Feel this is a discussion that should be presented at school level, as a life skill.
You're both brilliant! Thank you!
I am presently in divorce property division proceedings. She has narcissistic traits on top of CPTSD & DID, all professional diagnosed. So, during our arguments I was working with 5 personalities or pieces of her personality.
I have had depressive disorder most of my adult life & the mental/emotional/verbal abuse put the Complex to my PTSD.
I appreciate your & the lawyer advice. Thanks
question, we’re the diagnoses made prior to filing divorce by a mental professional or was this discovered by a professional during an evaluation during divorce?
This information was enlightening, educational and extremely thought provoking. Excellent lawyer representation. “What’s love got to do with it.” “Nothing, just a second hand 🖤 emotion.”
This is so helpful! Are you able to have a video on going through child custody, visitation, and child support?
Excellent, informative video!! Bravo Ladies! 🙌🏼
In 2016, I left the father of my daughters. 2017, we had a DV, cops were called, and I was arrested for assaulting him. ( I was just trying to get away while he was strangling me) so I hit him. He was arrested for having a gun, and he's a felon. CPS picked up.my kids we both went to jail, and CPS said he was the victim even though he was a felon with a gun when the incident happened. His background are Drive by shootings and selling firearms to a federal agent. Yet CPS closed my case and gave my kids to their dad. Ever since then, I have been fighting to get my kids back. I've spent so much money on attorneys. 1 attorney actually started using meth and took my money. Shocker!! I beat my DV case, and now I saved enough money to hire another attorney. All I want is 50/50 and my dad's father just will not settle next month we go to trial. For what? For nothing.just cause he's so mad at me for leaving and moving on. I guess I really will never know why or even get closer.
My divorce with my covert, narcissistic husband has been going fast because he has a shit ton of money and he’s afraid of financial exposure!
Excellent interview. Learned a lot. I am currently going through the divorce process with a female covert narcissist.
I have so much respect for attorney Demetria that she did realize she wasn't up to dealing with a narcissist and she did her research and became and expert in how to handle them at court! Thank you in the name of all your clients and other people carrying heavy memories of narcissistic abuse. I wish that all professionals would do this, attorneys, doctors, teachers, preachers, counselors etc, and would continue being interested in what they are doing and would keep learning.
It was such an uplifting experience for me to watch this interview. Thank you Dr. Ramani!
Just when you think they can't possibly go any lower, believe me, they will go down to depths you never imagined. Make sure you have support!!!!!
So true. I lost my relationship with our teenaged children. But now I live a life without abuse. I hope to rebuild with the (now grown) children in the future.
Sadly, as a therapist; I had to walk my friend through this. Her attorney was great! But he didn't understand narcissism. The judge ordered her and her traumatized kids into family therapy with her abusive narcissistic ex-husband🤦🏾♀️
😭😭😭😭
Sad because Judges are pretty oblivious - even after, Trumb|p!
Horrid!
Please send a copy of this checklist! I need it urgently! Dr. Romani
Yes! Me too please
Demetra! She helped me with my child custody case back in 2016.
This topic hits close to home. My husband's childhood bestfriend married his then girlfriend right after graduation; She convinced him to move them to California so she could join the military. And he cut off all contacts with family and friends back home. After 10 years, he reached back out to my husband, admitting that he was going through a divorce (should have listened to my husband to not rush into marriage), had been kicked out of the house, and was lost and confused. Once back in our homestate, he admitted that their marriage and sex life died after 5 years, but he held on until his wife filed for divorce and took everything they owned.... ~sigh~ I have never seen such a broken person, who still loves the other person :(
This is a society that does not respect its children. And that's one of the major causes for children not to respect abusive parents.