I am pretty sure the rise of Lua is largely thanks to Neovim. A lot of stuff is not getting done in that space and it's also a heavily GitHub based community, so it will probably score abnormally high.
lua is used extensively in a lot of in house game engines all over the world this is another proof that ranks like this are 100% bullshit, people who make and promote them are uninformed and they spread a lot of misinformation and lies and they have a hidden agenda, probably to squeeze sponsor $ for their personal language
Agreed, but Lisp is the most criminally disrespected language. Almost every single thing the “me too” languages boast came from Lisp: code=data, lambdas, functional, declarative, multi-inheritance OO, garbage collection, tail recursion, macros, symbols, bignums, mixed interpreted and compiled code, REPL, …
@@bayrock1337 "one of the myths concerning LISP that people think up or invent for themselves becomes apparent, and that is that LISP is somehow a realization of the lambda calculus, or that was the intention. The truth is that I didn't understand the lambda calculus, really" ~ McCarthy himself
Squee! I didn't do the implementation, but I did write the RFC text for PHP's new Disjunctive Normal Form (DNF) support. The examples shown on screen for that section were the ones I wrote. Extemely minor bit of fame, and the actual work was from George Baynard, who deserves all the credit, but it was still a good feeling to see "my" work on screen.
One thing that sorta is noticeable is how often microsoft came up in this video. If you think about it, C#/.Net, python(to some extent ) and typescript all are maintained by microsoft .
It is good to Julia mentioned a bit and getting faster on time to first plot in 1.9. I really quite like the language and the team behind it seems to be on the ball.
I think Julia has the tough time competing with python and its frameworks employing GPUs or TPUs, such as Pytorch and JAX. With these in mind Julia's advantages are not so obvious.
Very nice to see news on less popular languages which may be up and coming eventually. They are often neglected if they are not in the top 20. Also I feel many are borrowing good ideas from each others. Maybe they'll be more and more similar in the future.
On the Prolog side, 2022 had new releases of SWI Prolog (9.0), Scryer Prolog (0.9), Trealla Prolog (2.0). No big changes, some of them (SWI, Trealla) added WASM support. Meanwhile, Scryer featured mostly compatibility and performance improvements.
Damn, I remember sweating my pants off trying to run SWI-Prolog in browser via wasm. It was a kinda funny experience writing low-level C interop in js tho. Glad to hear it is mainline now.
Maybe the hottest news is the slides for the upcoming Verse language from Epic Games that I mentioned in the video. But I definitely appreciate the info above on established Prologs as well.
@@Gregorius421 And here's me being unlazy now and exporting the full list of links from the video: www.reddit.com/r/contextfree/comments/10ji6fp/comment/j6agk48/?context=3
What language to choose? 1) You know the computer language and have developed your own application programs. 2) The computer language is already installed in your computer with all the libraries and packages. 3) You are using the computer language in your work.
Haha, yeah I had the said reaction. Tom does this a lot, but I think it's a good way to showcase a lot of different topics. TH-cam has a pause button, after all.
@@hello3691000 I really doubt that. Functional programming is one of those things that people who get into never want to leave on their own. I think the real issue is ecosystem. Back in those days none of the ecosystems were mature enough to make a switch from one to another. This isn't the case anymore as ecosystems of langs like Python and JS have absolutely exploded in the last decade. Like, take the example of lisps. Insanely capable and productive languages on their own, but absolutely pale in comparison to the likes of Python's scientific stack or JS's web stack. Many startups like Reddit started with lisps and moved to these later on for this exact reason.
Not a popular opinion, but it’s kinda sad to see swift endeavours dying off. Honestly I remember being hyped back in 2016, and still the evolution is kinda neat and intriguing. Honestly a decently designed language. And designed by non other than Chris Lattner (the LLVM guy)
Yeah. I dabbled in a bit of Swift back when I used a Mac and I gotta say, it's one of the sanest, sensible languages I ever had the pleasure of using; statically-typed but modern & easy enough to learn as a first language; neat ideas like native syntax for optional types (with '?') and declare-in-control-flow-headers (e.g. `if let year = parseInt(data)...`); it seemed genuinely innovative yet still familiar enough to be the perfect application programming language. But I guess there's just not much incentive (or need) for Swift to expand beyond Apple's ecosystem; I suppose it will always have a steady marketshare as just the default language for developing iPhone apps, which newcomers will find happens to be a surprisingly nice language.
Hopefully Swift will be picked up at some point. It really is a language that brings a lot of modern things together in a design that goes out of its way to be pleasant to use and still perform quite well (where it matters). The recent addition of async/await and actors, and the currently worked on (Rust inspired) ownership features and macro system will make it even more suitable for a wide range of applications. Perhaps that can revive interest
Having a second look, I'm worried about the methodology for less popular languages. Looking specifically at Julia, it looks like its pie share was as high in 2021 as in the beginning of 2012, the year it was created.
I thought the #embed in c23 was a cute idea. And finally inline asm in rust! But they could have made the syntax smoother, so you wouldn't have to wrap each instruction as a list of comma separated strings. But I guess that's a 1st world problem.
The Languish website does seem to show odd results. I think one can't just measure how much something is used by looking at websites. Indeed they will more likely reflect the number of problems with an item than how much it is actually used relatively to its alternatives. I'd much rather trust SO's survey where relevant questions are answered by enough relevant people to give a reliable overview (both by pro devs and all devs in this case). It's safe to assume that web technologies are still 1st with Javascript quickly followed by HTML/CSS.
SO surveys are no less biased than Languish. There is no way to objectively measure popularity, so it's always good to keep in mind where the data comes from. (Something Tom addresses very well in this video.) I think the SO survey is an excellent way to track sentiment though, e.g. Rust currently being the most "loved" language.
@@SLiV9 I agree that nothing is entirely objective, but SO's surveys are far less biased because it's a straight question asked to all SO members: "what languages are you using?". In comparison, Languish is based on issues and questions, so it doesn't know how many people are using the language and has to guess with heuristics. If many problems occur in a particular language, it will generate more hits, than another language which is used by the same number of developers. The results shown here make it obvious, some in the top 10 don't make any sense.
But indeed, great job for the news part, which is the meat of this video. The relative scores of those languages doesn't add much in the end and should probably just be omitted since it's quite unreliable.
Top 10 on Languish isn't actually drastically different than the top 10 on the SO survey. And where differences occur can be interesting for thinking about what it might mean. (What I recommend *not* using is TIOBE.) survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular-technologies-language
I actually forgot to look up Free Pascal, which I should have done. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have posted any news during 2022. www.freepascal.org/ And I'm much less likely to cover non open source products, such as Delphi, most of the time.
@@contextfree my comment was, of course, ironic in nature. I hate writing the occasional Delphi code in my day job. And yeah, I'm not too surprised it doesn't show up (high) in your ranking. 😉 Thanks for replying and doing what you do on this channel!
@@hymen0callis I wasn't quite sure. Maybe "rage unsub" would have made me sure. Anyway, thanks for clarifying! And I actually do have a soft spot in my heart for Pascal.
@@brandonkirincich8181 they released their self hosted compiler, it took zig 5 years after their promise V has crossplatform UI framework, zig has nothing, yet it's over advertised, they delivered nothing
@@Hoowwwww The difference is that Zig never promised that their self-hosted compiler would come out super fast and don't make unrealistic promises. Zig has comptime and can be faster than C, what new does V bring to the table?
@@mgord9518 V has memory safety built in, zig doesn't, V is as fast as C, has fastest web framework, and compile significantly faster than both C and Zig zig author was jealous and made unfounded accusations, it's all documented, you can find his hostile comments on hackernews
I am pretty sure the rise of Lua is largely thanks to Neovim. A lot of stuff is not getting done in that space and it's also a heavily GitHub based community, so it will probably score abnormally high.
lua is used extensively in a lot of in house game engines all over the world
this is another proof that ranks like this are 100% bullshit, people who make and promote them are uninformed and they spread a lot of misinformation and lies
and they have a hidden agenda, probably to squeeze sponsor $ for their personal language
Think about the number of `.config` and `dotfiles` categorized into "Lua."
nope the rise of lua is thanks to roblox
it is sad to see great languages like elixir,julia, ocaml, haskell, scala, kotlin, nim, zig not being as popular as they should be
Agreed, but Lisp is the most criminally disrespected language. Almost every single thing the “me too” languages boast came from Lisp: code=data, lambdas, functional, declarative, multi-inheritance OO, garbage collection, tail recursion, macros, symbols, bignums, mixed interpreted and compiled code, REPL, …
@@ericpmoss functional programming came from lisp? 🤨
@@jawad9757 Very much so, actually. Its predecessor is lambda calculus itself.
u forgot Clojure m8
@@bayrock1337 "one of the myths concerning LISP that people think up or invent for themselves becomes apparent, and that is that LISP is somehow a realization of the lambda calculus, or that was the intention. The truth is that I didn't understand the lambda calculus, really"
~ McCarthy himself
Squee!
I didn't do the implementation, but I did write the RFC text for PHP's new Disjunctive Normal Form (DNF) support. The examples shown on screen for that section were the ones I wrote.
Extemely minor bit of fame, and the actual work was from George Baynard, who deserves all the credit, but it was still a good feeling to see "my" work on screen.
One thing that sorta is noticeable is how often microsoft came up in this video. If you think about it, C#/.Net, python(to some extent ) and typescript all are maintained by microsoft .
F# too, just happy that Visual Basic is in the trash, where it belongs
microsoft spends more behind pl research than any other entity in existence
It is good to Julia mentioned a bit and getting faster on time to first plot in 1.9. I really quite like the language and the team behind it seems to be on the ball.
I think Julia has the tough time competing with python and its frameworks employing GPUs or TPUs, such as Pytorch and JAX. With these in mind Julia's advantages are not so obvious.
Very nice to see news on less popular languages which may be up and coming eventually. They are often neglected if they are not in the top 20. Also I feel many are borrowing good ideas from each others. Maybe they'll be more and more similar in the future.
On the Prolog side, 2022 had new releases of SWI Prolog (9.0), Scryer Prolog (0.9), Trealla Prolog (2.0). No big changes, some of them (SWI, Trealla) added WASM support. Meanwhile, Scryer featured mostly compatibility and performance improvements.
Damn, I remember sweating my pants off trying to run SWI-Prolog in browser via wasm.
It was a kinda funny experience writing low-level C interop in js tho. Glad to hear it is mainline now.
Any significant news in the logic programming scene?
Maybe the hottest news is the slides for the upcoming Verse language from Epic Games that I mentioned in the video. But I definitely appreciate the info above on established Prologs as well.
@@contextfree It wasn't easy to find the slides, so I'll drop a link here:
@@Gregorius421 And here's me being unlazy now and exporting the full list of links from the video: www.reddit.com/r/contextfree/comments/10ji6fp/comment/j6agk48/?context=3
Very good job describing state of the art of all those programming languages, your content surely deserve more attention :D
bflat was a nice surprise for me, I've been using C# for as long as I can remember and never knew about bflat. Thanks!
It seems to be rather new, but still, I'm glad that was useful for you!
What language to choose?
1) You know the computer language and have developed your own application programs.
2) The computer language is already installed in your computer with all the libraries and packages.
3) You are using the computer language in your work.
15:17 Love the use of comic sans. They certainly know how to catch people's attention.
Thanks for this video. From this video, I know about the C3 language. It's a nice language with lot of features.
RE: Markdown -- Perhaps this is "readme driven development"?
It was a very great video.
Thanks for your effort
4:39 LOL
"...so, there's an example"
*scrolls away immediately*
*cuts to go*
Haha, yeah I had the said reaction. Tom does this a lot, but I think it's a good way to showcase a lot of different topics. TH-cam has a pause button, after all.
Functional languages seem to be taking a hit. Is it just because functional features are getting rolled into other languages?
That's my guess, but hard to be sure.
Yes. At this point most OOP languages are hybrid.
@@hello3691000 I really doubt that. Functional programming is one of those things that people who get into never want to leave on their own. I think the real issue is ecosystem. Back in those days none of the ecosystems were mature enough to make a switch from one to another. This isn't the case anymore as ecosystems of langs like Python and JS have absolutely exploded in the last decade. Like, take the example of lisps. Insanely capable and productive languages on their own, but absolutely pale in comparison to the likes of Python's scientific stack or JS's web stack. Many startups like Reddit started with lisps and moved to these later on for this exact reason.
Loving zig 0.10
Could the markdown metric come from all the markdown-only "Awesome XYZ" repos?
Not a popular opinion, but it’s kinda sad to see swift endeavours dying off. Honestly I remember being hyped back in 2016, and still the evolution is kinda neat and intriguing.
Honestly a decently designed language. And designed by non other than Chris Lattner (the LLVM guy)
Yeah. I dabbled in a bit of Swift back when I used a Mac and I gotta say, it's one of the sanest, sensible languages I ever had the pleasure of using; statically-typed but modern & easy enough to learn as a first language; neat ideas like native syntax for optional types (with '?') and declare-in-control-flow-headers (e.g. `if let year = parseInt(data)...`); it seemed genuinely innovative yet still familiar enough to be the perfect application programming language.
But I guess there's just not much incentive (or need) for Swift to expand beyond Apple's ecosystem; I suppose it will always have a steady marketshare as just the default language for developing iPhone apps, which newcomers will find happens to be a surprisingly nice language.
Hopefully Swift will be picked up at some point. It really is a language that brings a lot of modern things together in a design that goes out of its way to be pleasant to use and still perform quite well (where it matters). The recent addition of async/await and actors, and the currently worked on (Rust inspired) ownership features and macro system will make it even more suitable for a wide range of applications. Perhaps that can revive interest
Same. I think Swift for TensorFlow could've broken the Apple monoculture.
Having a second look, I'm worried about the methodology for less popular languages. Looking specifically at Julia, it looks like its pie share was as high in 2021 as in the beginning of 2012, the year it was created.
It's a big and growing pie. But yeah, any methodology also has flaws.
Thanks for the overview :)
Any crystal lang people here? 🔮
So ruby runs on webassembly now? That's hype in my book!
I don’t know if you already have this kind of video, but you should make a video on what kind of language you would create.
I haven't made such a video, but I leave some hints by what I cover. Maybe I'll make videos on this during this year.
Also: you may find the language „pony“ interesting. Built in Actor Types and unique reference types ;)
Where pony 😢
Thank you so much!
I thought the #embed in c23 was a cute idea. And finally inline asm in rust! But they could have made the syntax smoother, so you wouldn't have to wrap each instruction as a list of comma separated strings. But I guess that's a 1st world problem.
Still coping for doing my own language by fusing Rust and Kotlin together...
The Languish website does seem to show odd results. I think one can't just measure how much something is used by looking at websites. Indeed they will more likely reflect the number of problems with an item than how much it is actually used relatively to its alternatives. I'd much rather trust SO's survey where relevant questions are answered by enough relevant people to give a reliable overview (both by pro devs and all devs in this case). It's safe to assume that web technologies are still 1st with Javascript quickly followed by HTML/CSS.
SO surveys are no less biased than Languish. There is no way to objectively measure popularity, so it's always good to keep in mind where the data comes from. (Something Tom addresses very well in this video.) I think the SO survey is an excellent way to track sentiment though, e.g. Rust currently being the most "loved" language.
@@SLiV9 I agree that nothing is entirely objective, but SO's surveys are far less biased because it's a straight question asked to all SO members: "what languages are you using?". In comparison, Languish is based on issues and questions, so it doesn't know how many people are using the language and has to guess with heuristics. If many problems occur in a particular language, it will generate more hits, than another language which is used by the same number of developers. The results shown here make it obvious, some in the top 10 don't make any sense.
But indeed, great job for the news part, which is the meat of this video. The relative scores of those languages doesn't add much in the end and should probably just be omitted since it's quite unreliable.
Top 10 on Languish isn't actually drastically different than the top 10 on the SO survey. And where differences occur can be interesting for thinking about what it might mean. (What I recommend *not* using is TIOBE.) survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular-technologies-language
Conor of the Code Report channel also recently made a new site where you can include or exclude various sources, which is also fun. plrank.com/
Markdown rises because Obsidian users uploading their vault to github instead of cloud storage.
Seems like Ruby needs something like Rails was to Ruby
What about the v programming language?
I've been purposely delaying covering it, but I'll probably get to it some this year.
@@contextfree please make it segfault as much as possible
@@user-zq8bt6hv9k in hello world programs!
@@user-zq8bt6hv9k That's not very hard to accomplish with V lmao
@@user-zq8bt6hv9k don't even have to try, v makes it effortless
No mentioning of Delphi, and only very little of Pascal? Unsubbed
I actually forgot to look up Free Pascal, which I should have done. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have posted any news during 2022. www.freepascal.org/ And I'm much less likely to cover non open source products, such as Delphi, most of the time.
@@contextfree my comment was, of course, ironic in nature. I hate writing the occasional Delphi code in my day job. And yeah, I'm not too surprised it doesn't show up (high) in your ranking. 😉 Thanks for replying and doing what you do on this channel!
@@hymen0callis I wasn't quite sure. Maybe "rage unsub" would have made me sure. Anyway, thanks for clarifying! And I actually do have a soft spot in my heart for Pascal.
I knew Vgrnt is joking. My first language was Pascal, so I had a soft spot for it in the beginning, but it was quickly gone, never to return 😀
why do you ignore V? they recently released their multiplatform UI under MIT licence
V is.... a language that exists.... They are very good at over promising and never delivering.
@@brandonkirincich8181 they released their self hosted compiler, it took zig 5 years after their promise
V has crossplatform UI framework, zig has nothing, yet it's over advertised, they delivered nothing
@@Hoowwwww Bun is written in Zig though.
@@Hoowwwww The difference is that Zig never promised that their self-hosted compiler would come out super fast and don't make unrealistic promises.
Zig has comptime and can be faster than C, what new does V bring to the table?
@@mgord9518 V has memory safety built in, zig doesn't, V is as fast as C, has fastest web framework, and compile significantly faster than both C and Zig
zig author was jealous and made unfounded accusations, it's all documented, you can find his hostile comments on hackernews
"lets measure programming languages by everything.. except their use"