A video like this is what seperates a good coach from a clueless waste of money coach, if it comes natural then sure but these are not strokes that should be taught to every player j.We need more coaches like you hopefully people are paying attention…As you said the game evolves and as it evolves so do strokes and technique but it’s different strokes for different folks..
Very clear explanation! I have a modern FH & BH and I am happy with my strokes because I feel like they are easier for recreational players. We recreational players just don't have as much talent and practice time haha.
@@IntuitiveTennis Well now I am confused. I thought you were distinguishing the stylistic visual aspects from the fundamental benefit of a postponed timing resulting in a whipping motion. Next gen whipping is a true evolution, improving on the modern forehand, which is a few evolutions itself of the loop introduced by Borg, away from the classical forehand. Or not?
@@knotwilg3596I think it’s more incremental and stylistic development than the modern forehand was. The classic forehand didn’t have racquet head lag or drop at all. The modern forehand fundamentally changed the nature of the stroke in response to new technologies. The next gen, while also enabled by advances in technologies, is just another expression of those same fundamentals with different timing and swing path. The downside is timing has to be absolutely perfect and it’s also inefficient because the racquet has to cover more ground, making it more likely to be late at contact if you aren’t spot on.
Requires the ability to generate higher head speed from a heavier frame - try hitting that forehand with a 300g racket and not doing regular strength training and you'll be dealing with tennis elbow in no time. I normally hit with an eastern grip and medium-long swing to create pace (modeled my strokes on Lendl as a teen in the 80s); I spent an hour trying to hit the "whippy" semi-western stroke like this and wound up with my elbow screaming for a week from it. I do know a few rec players who can hit this, and all of them tend to have a lot of strength in their forearms and use a 340g or heavier frame.
Great content as always my friend. To me, there is nothing wrong with Classic strokes either...what would be wrong however is if you have racquets, tennis balls, shorts, shoes and a shirt, sitting on your lazy fat ass and you're not on the tennis court enjoying this incredible sport. Let's go baby. Cheers, M
Thank you for the explanation. A problem with many recreational players is blindly following the motion without understanding the underlying mechanics. I saw many people "slowly" hitting through modern forehands without this whipping effect at all. I tried this modern forehand thing a few times. While I was able to add a few mph, my wrist doesn't feel very good due to the fast motion, and it is hard to time (a mishit ball even more likely to cause injuries). I guess there guess that there is a correlation between Jack Socks and Kyrios wrist problems and the modern forehand. For most amateur players, faster pace is rarely the reason for winning/loosing games anyways.
One hand backhand is completely disappeared from the ranking, we've still Grigor, Stefanos and Musetti, but all other guys just hit with doublehannded and serve with 200 km or more, even guys like De Minaur that are supposed to be more fast and technical, but in the end he's not different how he hit the ball, from Francis or others. I remember once Musetti says in an interview, that if he will have a child that want to do tennis,, he will never teach to him the one Backhanded, so sad.
Why has it changed/evolved some of u may ask and a simple answer which Nick pointed out in the video is lighter rackets and strings technology and also sports science of body mechanics and optimal movements combined with advanced imaging and physical workouts to develop these new found theories.
Are you 100% sure Nik that the basic characteristic of the NG-fh is that position of Sinner's racquet in the takeback (which by the way never stops there not even a fraction of a second, he's so fluid ) My take about Why doesn't Sinner's fh look like a NG fh? Because his elbow is not as high as the others, looks like he hits the ball as soon as it bounces, he looks so fluid, all his body seems like in a dance so synchronized with the ball and going forward 98% of the time while the others with that high elbow when facing deep-heavy balls you se them going upwards with the chest and arm, always compensating and rushed against the ball and not infrequently missing balls but mainly they don't produce ON and ON the kind of ripping balls you should expect from that "whippy" way of hitting. There must be some kind of flaw in that is my take. Eg: -Kokkinakis -Musseti -Hurkacz - Kyrgios when played -Machac (alth he's doing good lately) -Evans -Kwon? -Nakashima? -and many many others specially behind the top 100 for those who like watching the Challenger Tour. The real next gen of tennis top 5 players will have to learn to use the body like Sinner does perhaps resorting to other sports that provide a lot of corporal coordination, grace, mobility and flexibility. Some coaches believe that Sinner's side-ability was his skiing mastery since very young. Look for example in slow motion 15 min of the USO final; Fritz looks kind of stiff compared to Sinner, for one he doesn't bend much as Sinner and he's 1.5" more.
Yes I’m 100% confident with my classifications of the next gen forehands or I would not have made several videos on this subject. The elbow position has nothing to do with next gen. If it did Sampras would be classified as next gen and he is not even close. NEXT GEN: Length of path into the lag on the bottom portion of racquet drop for both fh & bh If that path is long its next gen
Great question. I thought about it a lot, did some digging and unfortunately can’t find any next gen elements. Players that use 1-h bh have stylistic variations but it’s a modern one hander (ie Federer).
I'd be surprised if there was, because 1-H is not common now, and range of motion, options are limited. Shapo and his flexibility on the finish and hanging in the air is his style.
When it comes to next gen one handed backhand look to Dominick Thiem using an open stance one hander. Most to all one handers have a closed to squared stance. Thiem was able to open his stance. Now try to find a video on it... good luck, no one knows how to teach it. Hope that helps.
Great video. As well as racquet/string tech evolution, players' athleticism has increased dramatically. They can move more laterally. The new short, whippy swing enables hitting from a big stretch.
This type of stuff has been around for over 30 years, and Pete Sampras was hitting the next Gen Forehand in the 80s and 90s! So this is nothing new, great stuff Nick. Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you for the comment and happy thanksgiving. I have to clarify this bc there is confusion about the elbow and ppl think Pete Sampras has a next gen fh and Sinner does not. The height of the elbow in the takeback has nothing to do with next gen. Sampras has a high elbow position in his takeback. He takes his racquet all the way back (tip pointing to the back fence). Therefore the distance the racquet has to cover into the lag is minimal. So this is not even close to next gen. Sinner vs Tiafoe: Both are next gen but have different elbow positions. Tiafoe high elbow start and then a drop with the next gen racquet head position. Sinner lower elbow position initially but same racquet head position as Tiafoe. Both have same extended distance into the lag. Both are next gen. I might clarify this on my second channel with a vid so I can show it 💯
I do this myself and I didn't realize it until recently. I feel that if my strings are pointing backwards I tend to have more racquet speed/acceleration. But I also think this is the result of having an extreme western grip, so if I don't do it I kind of hit late and without power.
I would never recommend a next gen style forehand for a recreational player as it is a biomechanically more complex stroke than a modern/Federer style forehand. I'm not a fan of the next gen style strokes especially the forehands but I guess if you have the talent to pull the strokes off then go for it. Cheers Nick👍
@@maxgluteus4263actually. It's not at all. You just either haven't tired it or done it properly or you simply got so used to the modern that any change feels diffcult. It takes a month or 2 of practice before understanding it. With the next gen you can pull the racquet into the power position right away. There is no waiting for the racquet to drop and use gravity. You simply load and go. It only looks more diffcult because the racket whips around. But that part you don't need to consciousnessly think about. Once the strings point behind the back fence you simply accelerate forward and the racquet will automatically flip. It's not a conscious movement. Many ppl get it wrong by thinking about how it flips. It's actually far easier to time a next gen because the motion is faster. Many older people don't understand because you have ingrained the modern movement. Any change feels extremely difficult.
@tomk5238 you wrote so many words, just because you know I don't play next gen forehand? If you always imagining stuff and talk to yourself a lot, seek professional help
The whippier the stroke, the more difficult consistency becomes due to the exactness of the timing required. Coco is a great example of a player using the NG strokes, having considerable success, but you also see her have a lot of mis-hits as well. The spin produced by these strokes is tremendous and makes it even more difficult to time and return using the same technique; great if you can master it, but exceedingly difficult and I wouldn't recommend it to mere mortals who won't or can't commit to living only a tennis life.
True...I have a next gen forehand and struggled a lot with consistency (still do but got better). The most annoying part was the lack of consistency across different days or even sets. Sometimes my forehand looked like a huge weapon (didn't mind some miss hits here and there) but other days I felt completely amateurish. It was mostly the physical shape I was in hence this forehand style requires a bit more effort than others
A lot of wrist action similar to badminton makes the whipping movement more effective. However, this can lead to wrist injury if not properly strengthened
I find this argument very interesting and your take differs from what I've seen from TK Tennis, which I agree with in the fact that the face to which the racquet is pointing at is not what makes a next gen forehand. But, it is all quite confusing and we are forced to stick into categories that not necessarily serve the point
I recently got a couple of smaller tennis coach channel videos in my recommendations where they talk about how the next-gen is ruining the strokes of juniors, and how it should be avoided at all cost, which was kinda weird. Wonder if Nick also saw them and it was part of the reason for the video.
"Next Gen" appears to be more stylistic than a biomechanical improvement. Does NG make the Agassi and Sampras forehand somehow old and obsolete? I think not, and would take their groundstrokes any day of the week. What works for the pros is not necessarily good for the average Joe's. Good biomechanics, combined with a style and timing that works best for a particular player, never gets outdated. Happy Thanksgiving.
The Agassi and Sampras forehand are obsolete in favor of like a federer Djokovic Alcaraz modern forehand or a next gen. It seems like next gen goes hand and hand with lower weight on raquets adding power at lower weights. So if thats something helps in game design that's great. But I'm not sure thats better than just using a heavier racquet
Another tennis youtube creater on here actually argues that Next Gen forehand starts with Sampras because Sampras had the high-elbow position on take-back which Next Gen forehand has.
A point / question for you Nikola (to address in possible new videos): Why I would not recommend nexgen forehand to any young recreational (underline recreational) player even to good ones and those who can pull it off -> LONGEVITY. If a person loves this game he'll want to play it well into his 70s and who knows... 80s (I know a couple of them). This nexgen forehand is simply not sustainable past your 40s let alone 50s, we simply do not have the acceleration required for this shot to work.... and we're much better served with modern or even more classic shots... What's your take on this ?
I guess the answer to the question is that people like to copy their idols, even if it's not a proper copy. It's interesting to see videos of Sinner in his Junior years, when his forehand looks different to his current version. So with him, it's evolved (probably consciously) to how it is now. It's easy to imagine someone having correct fundamentals then modifying it for more power, etc after thousands of hours of practice (this is also visible with early vs later Federer forehands). So perhaps the interesting question is whether juniors starting now should go straight to this version.
immho errrm... Ivan Lendl ushered the NexGen forehand in the 90s lol! granted he was playing with super heavy racket and not so spinny fullbed nat. gut, so the whippiness we see today was not possible then... but the forehand form was already all there 30 years ago
I find the different strokes so confusing. My coach is trying to train me out of my flat hits, and showing me a loopy topspin hit, but now my shots are super inconsistent
I think modern stroke use the wrist much more than the old technique. The racket moves faster and hits the ball at the faster speed. Does it cost more injuries to the wrist? It was though back in the pass that don't use your wrist to minimize the injury .
I wonder if the nex gen groundstrokes which are more whippy, are a technique that is more prone to error, and less pinpoint control compared to the modern groundstrokes. The Nex Gen techniques are probably more deadly when executed well ( more spin and less predictable for the opponent) but maybe more susceptible to error and less control vs the modern groundstrokes of Novak. Obviously do what works for you.
Great video! It helps me answer a question I had for some time. I tried the so called Next Gen FH by imitating Kyrgios (although I didn’t know what is called) and it didn’t work. I could not get a solid hit. The ball always ended up too short and weak. I think I know why now. It’s not for me.
Wrist lag can be executed with either the "modern FH" or this "next gen FH" - this is why Djokovic and the rest of the "modern FH" users in the top 100 that we see on TV still hit the ball just as well as these "newer" kids - BUT - I can't say with confidence that this new style of "extreme whip" with more wrist motion (not necessarily more wrist lag) that this "new" style is not robust enough to last. Why? Look at the wrist injuries happening to those who have this style: Nick Kyrgios, Jack Sock, Nishikori, etc. Look at the data - the ball pace differences between the 2 styles are nominal. So why try to get better by WAITING longer to begin stroke? I fear we have just glorified a "feeling" rather than a proper mechanic. Certainly it feels like it's "wippier" to wait and let our wrist move more, but the reality is that generations of pros that have lasted top 10 for decades do not have any lack while taking the racquet back earlier, and certainly still generate adequate levels of wrist lag WITHOUT sacrificing their timing, OR increasing the potential risk of injury. Just my thoughts - but I think we need to wait and see before we start to promote this. The clear mechanic we should be promoting IS wrist lag, that had been made clear over the data this past few decades. But there is more risk to injury on how we obtain that wrist lag depending on the movement.
Unfortunately I think there is no such thing as the best technique because there are too many factors. As tennis rackets and strings change, as one ages 10 20 years, even as your opponents change how they hit the ball over time, these all add up to the best technique for a person on a given day. As I get older, I have to change how I swing my racket due to muscle loss and tendonitis that I built up, also my rackets have gotten a lot heavier over time which also changes how I have to swing the racket. But it is good to see what the options are in different stroke types.
4:01 You said "This is the natural evolution of tennis game. Rackets keep getting lighter and more manuverable." Do you recommend lighter Racket for a modern Backhand or Forehand? Can you mention a range in terms of weight of Racket?
I still don't get the point of this different gen thing. You play whatever that you are good at, or whatever makes you win. Making next gen sound like some magic or superior evolution makes no sense.
Half of this is making up some techinical definition of what is next gen, and different coaches will say different things. For many for example loop = modern forehand, straight pull forward = next gen. Nick has equated it to passing some arbitrary level of racket angle before the lag phase. It's all a bit random. I don't particularly like Nick's definition of the forehand because it's not really a different style at all, it's just a slightly more extreme angle - you could go from say an angle of 89 degrees = modern to 90 degrees = next gen in that terminology and they'd both look and swing pretty well identically. Compare this to discussing a classic to modern forehand - the differences are techinically much more pronounced.
Check out TK Tennis’s video about modern vs next gen forehand. I like his analysis a bit better and his creation of a new term, “gull wing” forehand, to describe the high elbow on take-back was particularly insightful.
strings backwards is not what constitutes a next gen forehand, it's the high elbow combined with strings backward. Many players previosly has had strings backward, sinner def does not have a next gen forehand but rather a modern forehand.
Next gen strokes equal whip factor as explained in this video. What makes the forehand whippy is a longer path into the lag. Sinner has it bc the tip of the racquet is positioned towards the side fence in the racquet drop. Elbow height is a stylistic difference within the next gen fh. (Pic of Tiafoe in this vid) Modern forehands most commonly drop to the side and back resulting in shorter path into the lag therefore less whip. Clear to see when comparing Sinner with Alcaraz. Sinner looks whipper than Alcaraz bc Carlos drops towards the back while Jannik does not.
Nik doesn't define the next gen fh/bh by its visual stylistic aspects, but by the functional aspect of whipping the ball with a postponed racket drop and shorter lag, facilitated by the lighter rackets and powerful strings of today. Sinner does have that whipping motion more than anyone else. Where his elbow or strings are pointing is a stylistic aspect. Nik is also pointing out that copying the stylistic features won't necessarily bring you the next gen forehand's benefits, if you don't execute it with the type of timing the next gen pros have.
@@IntuitiveTennis then it seems like tennis has a bit of a symantic error when it comes to defining some strokes for i've seen several videos going in depth defining ''next gen'' forehand and there has been different explenations and definitions of what it is
Sinner’s forehand is essentially same as Djokovic’s. The only difference is the racket height. Plus, sinner is not a typical example of the so called next gen forehand😂
no, they are very similar but the tip of Djokos racket is facing the fence and brifely slows down at the end of his takeback. Sinner on the other hand has his tip of the racket facing the right side of the court at the end of his takeback and it never stops like Djokos does. Dont know if I would call Sinners forehand next-gen, but there is a is much more whip in Sinners stroke. You can also see that he leads with the albow even more than Djoko, which is an effect of the difference in the takeback:)
@ yes they are ESSENTIALLY same as both racket face at some points face to the back of the court. Sure, they are not EXACTLY same, i.e., elbow bending angle, timing of loading and acceleration.
It’s not a next gen for hand with the take back! I feel like he is making this video in response to other videos that talk about the classification of the forehands because the real chance is in the path of the C and how that has shortened and abbreviated, Cobolli, Kyrgios, Tiafoe. Sinner’s is not next gen
@@sawyer7191 He is addressing the rec players who are trying to copy the elite without having even a fraction of the speed and reaction time necessary to execute their techniques. Even Nicola himself, let alone the club players, cannot quite do it.
I disagree. Alcaraz’ backhand now is a liablity. That’s why he has to run around most of the time to use his forehand. Sinner’s backhand is more consistent with higher pace
idk, for me this is so overcomplicated and abstract that it adds 0 value. no one should watch and think about these things, and i can assure you, none of the pro players have a mindset like that. coming up with new names for the same techniques may give you viewers on youtube, but nobody cares about it
It adds value to players that are being forced to adapt certain styles that are unsuitable to them or the ones that are being told their style is wrong despite it working well
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Sinner Serve God 👉 th-cam.com/video/kPw_mpPDCwA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=h3lKJ27240NLQA4m
A video like this is what seperates a good coach from a clueless waste of money coach, if it comes natural then sure but these are not strokes that should be taught to every player j.We need more coaches like you hopefully people are paying attention…As you said the game evolves and as it evolves so do strokes and technique but it’s different strokes for different folks..
Very clear explanation!
I have a modern FH & BH and I am happy with my strokes because I feel like they are easier for recreational players. We recreational players just don't have as much talent and practice time haha.
Absolutely nothing wrong it. Next gen is a style not a fundamental
@@IntuitiveTennis Well now I am confused. I thought you were distinguishing the stylistic visual aspects from the fundamental benefit of a postponed timing resulting in a whipping motion. Next gen whipping is a true evolution, improving on the modern forehand, which is a few evolutions itself of the loop introduced by Borg, away from the classical forehand. Or not?
@@knotwilg3596I think it’s more incremental and stylistic development than the modern forehand was. The classic forehand didn’t have racquet head lag or drop at all. The modern forehand fundamentally changed the nature of the stroke in response to new technologies. The next gen, while also enabled by advances in technologies, is just another expression of those same fundamentals with different timing and swing path. The downside is timing has to be absolutely perfect and it’s also inefficient because the racquet has to cover more ground, making it more likely to be late at contact if you aren’t spot on.
Requires the ability to generate higher head speed from a heavier frame - try hitting that forehand with a 300g racket and not doing regular strength training and you'll be dealing with tennis elbow in no time. I normally hit with an eastern grip and medium-long swing to create pace (modeled my strokes on Lendl as a teen in the 80s); I spent an hour trying to hit the "whippy" semi-western stroke like this and wound up with my elbow screaming for a week from it. I do know a few rec players who can hit this, and all of them tend to have a lot of strength in their forearms and use a 340g or heavier frame.
Quality content as always!
Thank you
Great content as always my friend. To me, there is nothing wrong with Classic strokes either...what would be wrong however is if you have racquets, tennis balls, shorts, shoes and a shirt, sitting on your lazy fat ass and you're not on the tennis court enjoying this incredible sport.
Let's go baby.
Cheers,
M
Thank you for the explanation. A problem with many recreational players is blindly following the motion without understanding the underlying mechanics. I saw many people "slowly" hitting through modern forehands without this whipping effect at all. I tried this modern forehand thing a few times. While I was able to add a few mph, my wrist doesn't feel very good due to the fast motion, and it is hard to time (a mishit ball even more likely to cause injuries).
I guess there guess that there is a correlation between Jack Socks and Kyrios wrist problems and the modern forehand. For most amateur players, faster pace is rarely the reason for winning/loosing games anyways.
One hand backhand is completely disappeared from the ranking, we've still Grigor, Stefanos and Musetti, but all other guys just hit with doublehannded and serve with 200 km or more, even guys like De Minaur that are supposed to be more fast and technical, but in the end he's not different how he hit the ball, from Francis or others. I remember once Musetti says in an interview, that if he will have a child that want to do tennis,, he will never teach to him the one Backhanded, so sad.
It is sad. Hope to see more 1-h bh from youngsters
Why has it changed/evolved some of u may ask and a simple answer which Nick pointed out in the video is lighter rackets and strings technology and also sports science of body mechanics and optimal movements combined with advanced imaging and physical workouts to develop these new found theories.
Are you 100% sure Nik that the basic characteristic of the NG-fh is that position of Sinner's racquet in the takeback (which by the way never stops there not even a fraction of a second, he's so fluid )
My take about Why doesn't Sinner's fh look like a NG fh?
Because his elbow is not as high as the others, looks like he hits the ball as soon as it bounces, he looks so fluid, all his body seems like in a dance so synchronized with the ball and going forward 98% of the time while the others with that high elbow when facing deep-heavy balls you se them going upwards with the chest and arm, always compensating and rushed against the ball and not infrequently missing balls but mainly they don't produce ON and ON the kind of ripping balls you should expect from that "whippy" way of hitting.
There must be some kind of flaw in that is my take.
Eg:
-Kokkinakis
-Musseti
-Hurkacz
- Kyrgios when played
-Machac (alth he's doing good lately)
-Evans
-Kwon?
-Nakashima?
-and many many others specially behind the top 100 for those who like watching the Challenger Tour.
The real next gen of tennis top 5 players will have to learn to use the body like Sinner does perhaps resorting to other sports that provide a lot of corporal coordination, grace, mobility and flexibility.
Some coaches believe that Sinner's side-ability was his skiing mastery since very young.
Look for example in slow motion 15 min of the USO final; Fritz looks kind of stiff compared to Sinner, for one he doesn't bend much as Sinner and he's 1.5" more.
Yes I’m 100% confident with my classifications of the next gen forehands or I would not have made several videos on this subject.
The elbow position has nothing to do with next gen. If it did Sampras would be classified as next gen and he is not even close.
NEXT GEN:
Length of path into the lag on the bottom portion of racquet drop for both fh & bh
If that path is long its next gen
Is there such a thing as a Next-Gen one handed backhand?? Asking for a friend.
Great question. I thought about it a lot, did some digging and unfortunately can’t find any next gen elements. Players that use 1-h bh have stylistic variations but it’s a modern one hander (ie Federer).
I'd be surprised if there was, because 1-H is not common now, and range of motion, options are limited. Shapo and his flexibility on the finish and hanging in the air is his style.
Maybe Shapo or Musetti could be worthwhile looking into?
Giovanni mppetshi perricard
When it comes to next gen one handed backhand look to Dominick Thiem using an open stance one hander. Most to all one handers have a closed to squared stance. Thiem was able to open his stance. Now try to find a video on it... good luck, no one knows how to teach it. Hope that helps.
Great video. As well as racquet/string tech evolution, players' athleticism has increased dramatically. They can move more laterally. The new short, whippy swing enables hitting from a big stretch.
Athleticism is a component for sure
This type of stuff has been around for over 30 years, and Pete Sampras was hitting the next Gen Forehand in the 80s and 90s! So this is nothing new, great stuff Nick. Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you for the comment and happy thanksgiving.
I have to clarify this bc there is confusion about the elbow and ppl think Pete Sampras has a next gen fh and Sinner does not.
The height of the elbow in the takeback has nothing to do with next gen.
Sampras has a high elbow position in his takeback. He takes his racquet all the way back (tip pointing to the back fence). Therefore the distance the racquet has to cover into the lag is minimal. So this is not even close to next gen.
Sinner vs Tiafoe: Both are next gen but have different elbow positions. Tiafoe high elbow start and then a drop with the next gen racquet head position. Sinner lower elbow position initially but same racquet head position as Tiafoe. Both have same extended distance into the lag. Both are next gen.
I might clarify this on my second channel with a vid so I can show it 💯
I do this myself and I didn't realize it until recently. I feel that if my strings are pointing backwards I tend to have more racquet speed/acceleration. But I also think this is the result of having an extreme western grip, so if I don't do it I kind of hit late and without power.
Thanks Nik for this great video !!!... a real pro who doesn't have to declare the next gen for garbage for clickbaiting Thx Thx Thx
Evolution of tennis 🎾
I would never recommend a next gen style forehand for a recreational player as it is a biomechanically more complex stroke than a modern/Federer style forehand.
I'm not a fan of the next gen style strokes especially the forehands but I guess if you have the talent to pull the strokes off then go for it.
Cheers Nick👍
It's delayed, so needs timing, and see ball clearly. to be fast, you need to have relaxed wrist, not everybody have all these elements
@@maxgluteus4263actually. It's not at all. You just either haven't tired it or done it properly or you simply got so used to the modern that any change feels diffcult. It takes a month or 2 of practice before understanding it.
With the next gen you can pull the racquet into the power position right away. There is no waiting for the racquet to drop and use gravity. You simply load and go.
It only looks more diffcult because the racket whips around. But that part you don't need to consciousnessly think about. Once the strings point behind the back fence you simply accelerate forward and the racquet will automatically flip. It's not a conscious movement. Many ppl get it wrong by thinking about how it flips.
It's actually far easier to time a next gen because the motion is faster. Many older people don't understand because you have ingrained the modern movement. Any change feels extremely difficult.
@tomk5238 you wrote so many words, just because you know I don't play next gen forehand? If you always imagining stuff and talk to yourself a lot, seek professional help
Sinner's FH is incredibly effective but somehow I find it ugly.
I find it very beautiful and orthodox. tried myself but takes more preparation time than MH. so Not for recreation player
The whippier the stroke, the more difficult consistency becomes due to the exactness of the timing required. Coco is a great example of a player using the NG strokes, having considerable success, but you also see her have a lot of mis-hits as well. The spin produced by these strokes is tremendous and makes it even more difficult to time and return using the same technique; great if you can master it, but exceedingly difficult and I wouldn't recommend it to mere mortals who won't or can't commit to living only a tennis life.
True...I have a next gen forehand and struggled a lot with consistency (still do but got better). The most annoying part was the lack of consistency across different days or even sets. Sometimes my forehand looked like a huge weapon (didn't mind some miss hits here and there) but other days I felt completely amateurish. It was mostly the physical shape I was in hence this forehand style requires a bit more effort than others
Coco Gauff does NOT have next gen forehand or backhand
A lot of wrist action similar to badminton makes the whipping movement more effective. However, this can lead to wrist injury if not properly strengthened
I find this argument very interesting and your take differs from what I've seen from TK Tennis, which I agree with in the fact that the face to which the racquet is pointing at is not what makes a next gen forehand. But, it is all quite confusing and we are forced to stick into categories that not necessarily serve the point
What is the advantage of these next gen styles of strokes?
Indeed it’s more consistent to do these.
I recently got a couple of smaller tennis coach channel videos in my recommendations where they talk about how the next-gen is ruining the strokes of juniors, and how it should be avoided at all cost, which was kinda weird. Wonder if Nick also saw them and it was part of the reason for the video.
"Next Gen" appears to be more stylistic than a biomechanical improvement. Does NG make the Agassi and Sampras forehand somehow old and obsolete? I think not, and would take their groundstrokes any day of the week. What works for the pros is not necessarily good for the average Joe's. Good biomechanics, combined with a style and timing that works best for a particular player, never gets outdated. Happy Thanksgiving.
The way to generate power is different, you'll fill the difference once you hit one, experiment, and good luck
The Agassi and Sampras forehand are obsolete in favor of like a federer Djokovic Alcaraz modern forehand or a next gen. It seems like next gen goes hand and hand with lower weight on raquets adding power at lower weights. So if thats something helps in game design that's great. But I'm not sure thats better than just using a heavier racquet
Another tennis youtube creater on here actually argues that Next Gen forehand starts with Sampras because Sampras had the high-elbow position on take-back which Next Gen forehand has.
@transamination a lot of people make claims based on a static frame picture, often mixing kinetics and kinematics, internet is full of that
A point / question for you Nikola (to address in possible new videos): Why I would not recommend nexgen forehand to any young recreational (underline recreational) player even to good ones and those who can pull it off -> LONGEVITY. If a person loves this game he'll want to play it well into his 70s and who knows... 80s (I know a couple of them). This nexgen forehand is simply not sustainable past your 40s let alone 50s, we simply do not have the acceleration required for this shot to work.... and we're much better served with modern or even more classic shots...
What's your take on this ?
I guess the answer to the question is that people like to copy their idols, even if it's not a proper copy.
It's interesting to see videos of Sinner in his Junior years, when his forehand looks different to his current version. So with him, it's evolved (probably consciously) to how it is now. It's easy to imagine someone having correct fundamentals then modifying it for more power, etc after thousands of hours of practice (this is also visible with early vs later Federer forehands). So perhaps the interesting question is whether juniors starting now should go straight to this version.
Sinner fh development: th-cam.com/video/i10mEr_8IVg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iBJt436frsGJHcrG
Style has to fit and should not be forced
immho errrm... Ivan Lendl ushered the NexGen forehand in the 90s lol! granted he was playing with super heavy racket and not so spinny fullbed nat. gut, so the whippiness we see today was not possible then... but the forehand form was already all there 30 years ago
Jack Sock had the extreme version on his forehand... when it worked it was next level.. but it often did not.
I find the different strokes so confusing. My coach is trying to train me out of my flat hits, and showing me a loopy topspin hit, but now my shots are super inconsistent
I think modern stroke use the wrist much more than the old technique. The racket moves faster and hits the ball at the faster speed. Does it cost more injuries to the wrist? It was though back in the pass that don't use your wrist to minimize the injury .
I wonder if the nex gen groundstrokes which are more whippy, are a technique that is more prone to error, and less pinpoint control compared to the modern groundstrokes. The Nex Gen techniques are probably more deadly when executed well ( more spin and less predictable for the opponent) but maybe more susceptible to error and less control vs the modern groundstrokes of Novak. Obviously do what works for you.
the answer: the coach! probably just easier to teach and has quick result.
Great video! It helps me answer a question I had for some time. I tried the so called Next Gen FH by imitating Kyrgios (although I didn’t know what is called) and it didn’t work. I could not get a solid hit. The ball always ended up too short and weak. I think I know why now. It’s not for me.
Wrist lag can be executed with either the "modern FH" or this "next gen FH" - this is why Djokovic and the rest of the "modern FH" users in the top 100 that we see on TV still hit the ball just as well as these "newer" kids - BUT - I can't say with confidence that this new style of "extreme whip" with more wrist motion (not necessarily more wrist lag) that this "new" style is not robust enough to last. Why? Look at the wrist injuries happening to those who have this style: Nick Kyrgios, Jack Sock, Nishikori, etc.
Look at the data - the ball pace differences between the 2 styles are nominal. So why try to get better by WAITING longer to begin stroke? I fear we have just glorified a "feeling" rather than a proper mechanic. Certainly it feels like it's "wippier" to wait and let our wrist move more, but the reality is that generations of pros that have lasted top 10 for decades do not have any lack while taking the racquet back earlier, and certainly still generate adequate levels of wrist lag WITHOUT sacrificing their timing, OR increasing the potential risk of injury.
Just my thoughts - but I think we need to wait and see before we start to promote this. The clear mechanic we should be promoting IS wrist lag, that had been made clear over the data this past few decades. But there is more risk to injury on how we obtain that wrist lag depending on the movement.
Can you.please do the same video about the one handed back hand fundamentals and styles
th-cam.com/video/5Kqg1miA56A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EcKF_LEBqz-BykA_
Unfortunately I think there is no such thing as the best technique because there are too many factors. As tennis rackets and strings change, as one ages 10 20 years, even as your opponents change how they hit the ball over time, these all add up to the best technique for a person on a given day. As I get older, I have to change how I swing my racket due to muscle loss and tendonitis that I built up, also my rackets have gotten a lot heavier over time which also changes how I have to swing the racket. But it is good to see what the options are in different stroke types.
On the next gen Forehand it starts off by pointing the tip of the racket towards the net
4:01
You said "This is the natural evolution of tennis game.
Rackets keep getting lighter and more manuverable."
Do you recommend lighter Racket for a modern Backhand or Forehand?
Can you mention a range in terms of weight of Racket?
I give racquet weight recommendations here
th-cam.com/video/0z0Pw7i5DuI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nt_7c0PRlIas3wFj
@IntuitiveTennis Thank you
Yes ! But what about the next-Gen one-handed Backhand ? 😅
Doesn’t exist
It does for backhand overhead, same as badminton,
Name is New génération FH not Next Génération which is belong to Federer Nadal alcaraz etc
I still don't get the point of this different gen thing. You play whatever that you are good at, or whatever makes you win. Making next gen sound like some magic or superior evolution makes no sense.
Half of this is making up some techinical definition of what is next gen, and different coaches will say different things. For many for example loop = modern forehand, straight pull forward = next gen. Nick has equated it to passing some arbitrary level of racket angle before the lag phase. It's all a bit random. I don't particularly like Nick's definition of the forehand because it's not really a different style at all, it's just a slightly more extreme angle - you could go from say an angle of 89 degrees = modern to 90 degrees = next gen in that terminology and they'd both look and swing pretty well identically. Compare this to discussing a classic to modern forehand - the differences are techinically much more pronounced.
Not random at all. It’s simple. Length of path into the lag. Next Gen is a variation of the modern FH and we are seeing it more and more.
Check out TK Tennis’s video about modern vs next gen forehand. I like his analysis a bit better and his creation of a new term, “gull wing” forehand, to describe the high elbow on take-back was particularly insightful.
strings backwards is not what constitutes a next gen forehand, it's the high elbow combined with strings backward. Many players previosly has had strings backward, sinner def does not have a next gen forehand but rather a modern forehand.
Next gen strokes equal whip factor as explained in this video. What makes the forehand whippy is a longer path into the lag. Sinner has it bc the tip of the racquet is positioned towards the side fence in the racquet drop. Elbow height is a stylistic difference within the next gen fh. (Pic of Tiafoe in this vid)
Modern forehands most commonly drop to the side and back resulting in shorter path into the lag therefore less whip. Clear to see when comparing Sinner with Alcaraz. Sinner looks whipper than Alcaraz bc Carlos drops towards the back while Jannik does not.
Nik doesn't define the next gen fh/bh by its visual stylistic aspects, but by the functional aspect of whipping the ball with a postponed racket drop and shorter lag, facilitated by the lighter rackets and powerful strings of today. Sinner does have that whipping motion more than anyone else. Where his elbow or strings are pointing is a stylistic aspect. Nik is also pointing out that copying the stylistic features won't necessarily bring you the next gen forehand's benefits, if you don't execute it with the type of timing the next gen pros have.
@@IntuitiveTennis then it seems like tennis has a bit of a symantic error when it comes to defining some strokes for i've seen several videos going in depth defining ''next gen'' forehand and there has been different explenations and definitions of what it is
Using the Shift here….
Sinner’s forehand is essentially same as Djokovic’s. The only difference is the racket height. Plus, sinner is not a typical example of the so called next gen forehand😂
no, they are very similar but the tip of Djokos racket is facing the fence and brifely slows down at the end of his takeback. Sinner on the other hand has his tip of the racket facing the right side of the court at the end of his takeback and it never stops like Djokos does. Dont know if I would call Sinners forehand next-gen, but there is a is much more whip in Sinners stroke. You can also see that he leads with the albow even more than Djoko, which is an effect of the difference in the takeback:)
@ yes they are ESSENTIALLY same as both racket face at some points face to the back of the court. Sure, they are not EXACTLY same, i.e., elbow bending angle, timing of loading and acceleration.
I'm happy with my modern strokes.
Next-Gen strokes are ugly.
is rafa's backhand next gen?
It’s not. It’s a modern 2-h bh. He does start on the outside but takes it back shortly after the bounce
Is this a reaction to TK Tennis claiming NG a scam?
Or is this just coincidence?
it's not coincidence, nothing crazy
I believe he claims extreme NG a scam meanwhile moderate NG , he supports
Nick, because its next-generation, like now😅
Lol I'm in my 30s and I've played like that since I was 5. How is this next-gen?
Same...late 30'
It’s not a next gen for hand with the take back! I feel like he is making this video in response to other videos that talk about the classification of the forehands because the real chance is in the path of the C and how that has shortened and abbreviated, Cobolli, Kyrgios, Tiafoe. Sinner’s is not next gen
It's next gen because he is talking about professional level players who are being coached this way.
@ huh?
@@sawyer7191
He is addressing the rec players who are trying to copy the elite without having even a fraction of the speed and reaction time necessary to execute their techniques. Even Nicola himself, let alone the club players, cannot quite do it.
I don’t know if it’s wrong but it’s UGLY
That’s fair. I think modern style (fh & bh) looks better
I disagree. Alcaraz’ backhand now is a liablity. That’s why he has to run around most of the time to use his forehand. Sinner’s backhand is more consistent with higher pace
All players run around their backhand. Can you win 4 slams with a backhand that’s a liability in this baseline era? Nope!!
idk, for me this is so overcomplicated and abstract that it adds 0 value. no one should watch and think about these things, and i can assure you, none of the pro players have a mindset like that. coming up with new names for the same techniques may give you viewers on youtube, but nobody cares about it
It adds value to players that are being forced to adapt certain styles that are unsuitable to them or the ones that are being told their style is wrong despite it working well