Waaaaaaaay ahead of you, Danny-👦 I'll subscribe but I'll never BOW! (...again; that was a one-time thing!! 😆 #ShadowLife) Go join nae'blis's discord! His giveaways are legit!
Already did. Also I would like to ask if any of yall are on any of the wheel of time forums like dragonmount.com. That place was the very first online source for information on the wheel of time for me back in early 2000s.
Wow. No 2 better guys to talk about adaptation speculation together. Another KILLER WoTtalk in the books. Ps- We all hated Matt until getting 4, 5 books in.
Love you both! This was awesome; you guys should do a monthly get together! You could call it The Village Council! (Maybe you could invite the ladies from the white tower podcast, too?)
Daniel, your WoT passion has made me continue reading it and next to that I want to thank you for your work in the Fantasy field, please keep on going. What I wanted to say is: perhaps you could add timestamps in your video description of the main themes, questions, problems you address in the WoT-talk. That way, people who don't want to watch all of it or don't have the time to do so, can watch the relevant part for them. ~
I just found out about the TV series, and it got me watching these videos, from you both, and they are great. Keep doing what you are doing. You contrast each other perfectly. I started reading WoT about 6 months after it's release, way back when and was heartbroken when Jordan died, thinking it would go unfinished. I got my brother hooked on it, and we have discussed the books for many years, and how hard it would be to bring this world to Movie's or TV, thinking there was no way it would ever happen. I hope they do it justice. Favorite series ever.
I've listened to this wottalk while washing the dishes and I started hearing a spoiler (I haven't read memory of light yet) so I just started shouting so I wouldn't hear anything and I scared the shit out of my roommate 😂
its a shame they alter mins voice halfway through the books to sound more childlike compared to the others (take elayne and Avihenda as example) even tho she is both older and in manny ways more mature than them. it felt really ofputting :(
Thanks for the great content Daniel! Your a passionate and down to earth person and love your writing insight. I look forward to reading your book it's done. Cheers
So many things to say...1st, I follow both of you, and can’t get enough! 2nd in reference to beginning the series with EoW prologue; it has to happen! Then the braking of world can be shown per Nae’blis and then that world breaking animation/cinematic scene becomes the beginning credits for all following episodes. It doesn’t matter that new people to the series won’t know wtf is happening, either did we and it sets the tone for the dreaded prophecy of the Dragon. All will Come to understand the import...it will make rewatching just as valuable as reading the the books again. I hope they include as much of Jordan’s fore shadowing from the novels in the show as possible, and that prologue is one of the most critical bits. It must happen, make the first episode an hour and 15 if need be. Keep up the WoT streams, seriously can’t get enough!
Elayne having trouble when wearing a veil speaks straight to what you are talking about with the descriptive sections adding depth to the story...Elayne literally looks down her nose at people!
45:15 without the prologue i would never have finished the book back in 1995. i spent years reading the books just to understand what that prologue was.
I feel the prologue should be introduced through Thom as a history. Have it filmed as a flashback as Thom is educating the boys about the history of the ages.
I wish I could already be finished with this series so I could join the discussion and forum talks . I'm only on the second book. The first book was kinda slow but the 2nd one really takes off! I'm really enjoying it. So far I like Lan, Moiraine and Thom the gleeman
Something came to mind while Nae'blis was talking about the many examples of miscommunication. I now realize Robert Jordan wrote the dialogue with a purpose and I think that the miscommunication is just an example of how so many things happen like that in real life. He'll the job I have now, one of the biggest issues we have is departments not communicating with eachother. It does throw everything out of wacky because everyone thinks they know all the information they need. ROBERT JORDAN totally brings this out in the story. Oh and Nae'blis... the word you are looking for in reference to Graendal is EXCESS. She is a great example of excess on a grand scale in fact. A Graendal scale. I think an easy way to incorporate sharans into the show would be to have some sharans in the crowds of big cities. Maybe Demondred sent eyes and ears for the shadow to the bigger cities to track things or certain people.
Good cliff hanger moment in the middle of the great hunt is the lose of the Horn at the Inn in Caihrien. Hero's low point or using the Portal Stone with Verin shouting "something is gone wrong!" allowing for the tale the next season to start with Egwene imprisoned. I have noticed many series like Magicians and Cloak & Dagger and The Expanse do this mid season climax and do it with great success. I think the Eye of the World could be done in 6 or 7 episodes with a change like meeting Loial on the outskirts of Shadarlogoth entering the gateway and getting to Camelin that way eliminating the long road. The Myrdraal attacks Thom, Mat, and Perrin while they're trying for a look at Logan. They flee the city leaving Thom behind for Caihrien but don't enter instead find the kings Park and the Way gate there, Perrin has his awakening there to the wolf brothers. Moraine, Lan, Egwene and Nynieve follow helped by the link on Perrins coin. and the Ta'verin nature of the boys leads them to Shienar. Into the blight for an episode and the Eye for another episode. Not a great story arch but sacrifices will need to be made
I think the prologue was very interesting. I never realised it was futuristic, until some books later, so they need to emphasise that. But if people see the prologue and then see a time jump, and see this late medieval/Renaissance community, it leaves many interesting questions as to what has happened. Plus the mentions about the Dragon/Lews Therin negative perception will make it even more intriguing, and a few mentions to the Breaking of the World will make it very interesting. I don't want a huge exposition dump explaining what happens in one go, in needs to come organically, as if we were the Two Rivers kids learning about the history of the world. Look at GOT, pieces of Robert's rebellion was revealed throughout the episodes.
Graendal is one of the most interesting characters in the books. She is a bundle of contradictions and misdirection and the ultimate survivor. Graendal doesn't buy into any of the Team Evil goals, she is Team Graendal. She doesn't care about being the favorite of the Dark One, or doing his bidding, or any of that. Yet she is right there shoulder to shoulder with true believers like Moridin and Mesaana and Rahvin, and all of them have a completely wrong idea about who Graendal is. All of Graendal's sledgehammer Compulsion and apparent love of decadence is a façade. Graendal has a very deft and fine control of Compulsion, as we later learn during the Last Battle. She does not want her fellow Forsaken to know that though, so she hides her ability with her mindless adoring thralls. And her pets are really just furniture, to keep the other Forsaken thinking that she cares about beauty and the pleasures of the flesh above all else. She isn't nearly as attached to that sort of thing as she wants other people to believe she is. She doesn't even care about being a ruler or a general. And Graendal doesn't revel in cruelty the way other Forsaken do, one could argue that making her thralls mindless but happy is a mercy of a kind. It's certainly better than the way Semirhage treats people that fall into her orbit. On the other hand, Graendal has a VERY clear idea of who the other Forsaken are, and how they can and can't be nudged to keep herself in a good spot. She understands why they do the things they do, why they might be convinced to consider herself an ally, and how they might be used to serve her purposes. Asmodean and Aran'gar especially fatally miscalculated who Graendal is, and provided some memorable story moments and a longstanding mystery for the fans. Remember 'who killed Asmodean?' Graendal has layers. I think Graendal is underappreciated as a character. Demandred, on the other hand, is a plot device. HIs motivation is very similar to Sammael and Rahvin and Be'lal. He is jealous of Lews Therin, wants to be a king, etc. Pretty standard, boring motivation. Then he pops up with his attempt at a deus ex machina during the Last Battle, and laughably tries to call out Lews Therin for a one-on-one duel with swords, of all things. He makes a big splash, but he is ultimately pretty dumb. "Lews Therin" isn't even there, and the person he is now would never play this game on Demandred's terms. But Demandred has no concept of the game that is actually being played, and is still behaving as if this is War Of Power, Part Deux. He makes a big splash, but if the goal is to win the Last Battle, he showed up on the wrong battlefield, and prepared for the wrong fight. Switching gears, I think snippets of the prologue should be peppered throughout the first season, to show Rand's growing awareness of who he is. A series of hazy, inchoate, dreamlike vignettes, depicting parts of that scene from a first-person perspective. I'm envisioning shots of Ilyena, smiling and alive, then cut to her blood-streaked blonde hair amid the rubble of the palace. And as the episodes progress, you start seeing Ishamael, and begin to hear his voice. Then, as the prologue to the episode in season one when Moiraine proclaims Rand the Dragon Reborn, after Aginor and Balthamel are defeated at the Eye Of The World, that sequence should be shown in its entirety. This time, though, it should be shown with clarity, from a third-person perspective, almost verbatim from the books. This builds a fascination for what these visions are and what they mean. It could also be cut into the episodes in such a way that you're not sure which character is having the visions, to maintain the idea for show-only types that any one of these three yokels could be The Chosen One™.
Your "Switching gears" point is really good. That prologue has thrown everybody I know that hasn't "got into" the books nor even half way thru EotW. It's frustrating to see that out of context death followed by a "shire" retread, kill someone's motivation... even when they were warned! 📕📚😤 ... 📖😵💭👺💣🌋🌀🌊☔⚡🐲
You analyze characters so deeply and well. I could read an entire essay you write about WoT characters haha I really wish you’d join Daniel’s Discord (you too Twiggie Leon), but I’ll stop bothering you about it after this. That LTT sequence method sounds like it could be really captivating. I would worry whether new audiences would understand what is going on, but with the right transitions and music, I think it would work.
@@rossj4755 I am a member of Daniel's Discord and a few others, but I'm only rarely able to carve out time to look around. It all moves so fast, and it's hard to know where and when I should be directing my attention on Discord.
@@Siansonea Just go into the WoT Spoilers channel and say "I have an opinion that I would like to share," and type out your thought, and people will read it and talk about it. It does move fast, but there's no real order, just kinda a free-flowing thing!
Just in response to the question of did the fans grow. I loved and read the books, the latter books even as they came out. But with Jordan gone, i hadnt expected to see the series return to the spotlight, as much as i loved it
47:25 holy shit you just cracked a nut. yes, end of the season, the last thing in the first season should be that prologue, it is just too much for the start of the show, but at the very end of a season, probably ending in fal dara before they go to the eye btw, it would blow people's minds. after all that they have seen to see the power used the way it is used in the prologue would drop their jaws, to really understand that the power is allot more than it looks like. yes yes yes, i hope they do this.
lews therin MELTED large parts of his home, and scrambled the whole thing up. but in a video context you can't explain that or how it happened, or why, i don't think people would be able to feel the horrific implications of the prologue without knowing the world first, they should push the kinslayer aspect a little more than they did in the first book, then show them kinslayer at the end of the first season.
It is fairly common for the first episode to be a bit longer in streamed series nowadays so I am hoping they get 90 minutes or something or that to cover the first 13 chapters. I think one of the biggest mistakes they could make is to rush it too much to "get to the action" and leave audiences confused about what is going on. As they say here I think they need 12-13 episodes to cover the first 2 books and hopefully they get that but Amazon usually gives 10 episodes I think so we will see. It will be problematic to end midway through a book since RJ made the first few books to have natural contained story arcs.
I believe they have confirmed that the first season will be 8 episodes so I don’t think they will have enough time to do all of great Hunt. Now I have not read New Spring but I wonder if they would include it in season 1.
@Jim LoganI think they're 60 minute episodes and if they are just doing The Eye of the World, they could easily adapt it all in 8 episodes. Mathematically that's 480 minutes for a 782 page book, so about 1 minute for every 2 pages. You could easily do that considering how descriptive Jordan's writing style is and still have some time to flesh out characters like Mat who's biggest problem is his lack of focus until Book 3/4
@Jim LoganMy guess is that the first season will just be the first book. If it's an 8 episode season that's plenty to adapt Eye of the World and get people hooked. I'd then probably say that Season 2 would cover The Great Hunt and The Dragon Reborn, Season 3 The Shadow Rising and half of The Fires of Heaven, Season 4 the second half of The Fires of Heaven and Lord of Chaos. Season 5 would probably be A Crown of Swords and The Path of Daggers, Season 6 would be Winter's Heart, Crossroads of Twilight, and Knife of Dreams. After that either do Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight individually or as a combined single season. A Memory of Light would have to be one season on its own just because of how long that book is. I'd also guess that the 8 episode starting number I honestly don't remember where I read it, so I could be wrong and I wouldn't be surprise if the seasons fluctuate in episode length and number because this is a streaming service show so it's easier to do that.
But if book 1 and 2 will be season 1, do u think 5 episodes will be enough per book? I doubt it. Maybe 8 episodes for book 1 and 2 for book 2 continuing with season 2 is better if they can do book 1 in less than 10 episodes.
Daniel - I like your point about Rahvin, what little role he played was immense. He completely destabilized the most powerful nation without much effort. What I don't want to see and I've heard it before from others, I think even you had mentioned it, is the Morgase storyline which then leads to the Shaido and Malden and her eventual return to Caemlyn which, imo, does not really serve the story.
If Moiraine is the main character, would they start with Rand? Or would the do some of New Spring? Although, they obviously can’t keep her as the main character throughout. So, perhaps they will start with Rand and just focus more on her as it goes on.
I think the prologue should be little cut scene flashes (I dare not call them flashbacks) but done throughout the season(s). I think it should be mysterious and I the audience to be questioning wth is it. Did you watch Breaking Bad? There was a while that they would open with the black and white clips of the aftermath of the plane crash but you were just completely unaware of what it was until it happened. That is sorta what I am talking about. Or not, you know. Whatevs.
When it comes to the Forsaken, I personally feel condensing them into maybe 6 or 7 people, most likely 7 (analogy for the 7 deadly sins). Not only would this cut lower the number of casts and plotlines, but also makes the Forsaken a lot more effective antagonist, rather than glass cannons who pretty much keel over when Rands frowns in their direction. Ishamael\Moridin should stay the same, obviously. Lanfear should be merged with Simerhage and Graendal; this will give you a character who is highly manipulative, hedonistic as well as sadistic, with an obsession fixated on the main character. Doesn't she sound a lot more dangerous than all 3 of her parts already? I'd combine Demandred and Sammael, both are very similar characters anyway; both master strategists with a burning hatred/jealousy for the Dragon. Mesaana and Moghedian as a single character would be deadlier than either of them; mixing the spiders skills with espionage and assassinations with Mesaanas cool, calculated intelligence. And as easy as that I've managed to condense 8 forsaken down to 4, most of whom are a lot more effecftive than they were in the books.
hey guys as to math's strangenes, him being prejudice's and smart. thats because you have math and then you have al the old memorie's. so yes you get conflicting traites in a person when there are multible persoons in his head
A question about the adaptation. It took me a while to realise that Semirhage and Tuon were black. Do you think it will be controversial that one of the most evil characters and the leader of a slave owning culture is portrayed as black on screen?
Mat has EVERY reason to be reluctant to be touched by the One Power/Aes Sedai, even to be healed by it. 1. He cannot know what an Aes Sedai will actually do - Rand was raped/bonded by one pretending to just want to heal him. The three oaths are useless, they hardly protect ppl from Aes Sedai. In a way, the Forsaken are much more honest than the "white" tower. 2. He knows Aes Sedai are fully aware that Mat is a strong taveeren. Which means he knows, Aes Sedai will most definitely try to leech onto him and use him in their plans. 3. If you are healed by Aes Sedai, they can find you anywhere. Which is not something Mat would ever want. Mat's reluctance towards Aes Sedai is absolutely reasonable. Aes Sedai do nothing but use ppl like him, keep them alive only to have them serve their purposes in the future. Its not that he hates them (like most Whitecloaks), he just cannot ever trust them.
Although I don't want it to happen their is a strong likelihood that they wheels of time will end with the Dragon Reborn. I would love to see the whole series done but the pessimist in me thinks that it is huberus to assume that the show runners will do the whole series.
i got banned from dragonmount right before the sanderson content started coming out, it was over curse words in the live chat on their website. fuck them.
WOT tv show will not be WOT, it is going to follow moraine, yall are talking about Rand and Egwene which should be the simplified focus for WOT tv The prologue needs to be Moraine finding out the dragon is born bc they are making her the lead. Moraine shouldnt be the lead bc she only around begining, in Tear, and the waste. She isnt there for the rest of the story.
I believe they are beginning the show from Moraine's prospective initially and then the show will expand organically. The parties split early and often and you're absolutely correct that Moraine does not have her hands on every thread of the story arc.
Just my opinion, but, I think they are making Moraine the lead, so that people (new TV Viewers that have not read the books) can love her, and then, when she dies (or so they think), it will be a big deal. TV Shows, now, love killing off major characters, because it gets ratings, because people talk about it. Kind of like Ned Stark in the first season of GoT. Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, SoA, etc. Most of the highest rated shows of all time have unexpected deaths, and I think this TV series will follow suit. People want to be shocked. That's how they get more seasons, and that's how they get through the whole story.
Maybe they will switch the story to Rand and Egwene when Moraine goes thru the door. The problem with the books as written is that when it comes to filming you can have 1-2 lead actors, you cannot have 6 lead actors filming in 3-5 different locations all the time.
@@blueeyedcowboy8291 No i think they did it so the reveal of the Dragon Reborn isn't so obvious. They'll probably spend equal time with Rand, Perrin and Mat, rather than the book, where Rand is the complete focus for basically the whole book.
6:14 ishamael is correct like 100% (allot of bluffing and boasting though) of the time, it is only his conclusion that is wrong. ishamael was never a liar, he just got too full of himself.
Go sub to Naeblis!
Daniel Greene you’re too kind!
I already did already.
Waaaaaaaay ahead of you, Danny-👦 I'll subscribe but I'll never BOW! (...again; that was a one-time thing!! 😆 #ShadowLife)
Go join nae'blis's discord! His giveaways are legit!
Nae'blis entertains me while I wait for more Daniel Greene content and vice versa 😆
Already did. Also I would like to ask if any of yall are on any of the wheel of time forums like dragonmount.com. That place was the very first online source for information on the wheel of time for me back in early 2000s.
You and Nae’blis are my favorite booktubers/WoTtubers ❤️❤️
Because they are the only two wheel of time content creators in youtube.
Wow. No 2 better guys to talk about adaptation speculation together. Another KILLER WoTtalk in the books.
Ps- We all hated Matt until getting 4, 5 books in.
I'd concur on both points. I'm almost done with my first read of book 3, and I really can't stand him.
Love you both! This was awesome; you guys should do a monthly get together! You could call it The Village Council! (Maybe you could invite the ladies from the white tower podcast, too?)
Daniel, your WoT passion has made me continue reading it and next to that I want to thank you for your work in the Fantasy field, please keep on going. What I wanted to say is: perhaps you could add timestamps in your video description of the main themes, questions, problems you address in the WoT-talk. That way, people who don't want to watch all of it or don't have the time to do so, can watch the relevant part for them. ~
Daniel Greene for Olver! lol. Good talk, thanks for coming together for this.
Two well spoken and knowledgeable speakers. Thank you both of your contributions.
I just found out about the TV series, and it got me watching these videos, from you both, and they are great. Keep doing what you are doing. You contrast each other perfectly. I started reading WoT about 6 months after it's release, way back when and was heartbroken when Jordan died, thinking it would go unfinished. I got my brother hooked on it, and we have discussed the books for many years, and how hard it would be to bring this world to Movie's or TV, thinking there was no way it would ever happen. I hope they do it justice. Favorite series ever.
I've listened to this wottalk while washing the dishes and I started hearing a spoiler (I haven't read memory of light yet) so I just started shouting so I wouldn't hear anything and I scared the shit out of my roommate 😂
This is everything! Give me more of you two talking anything WoT! And who doesn’t love Mat?
I am doing my 2nd read through with the audiobooks. Min's visions are on point now I know how the story goes.
Yeah! Those get real fun in a re-read
its a shame they alter mins voice halfway through the books to sound more childlike compared to the others (take elayne and Avihenda as example) even tho she is both older and in manny ways more mature than them. it felt really ofputting :(
Thanks for the great content Daniel! Your a passionate and down to earth person and love your writing insight. I look forward to reading your book it's done. Cheers
Thank you so much!
I guess typos are what happens when when the sun is so bright that you can barely see your phone screen.
I am currently on a reread of WoT, and I can agree with Naeblis on the amount of foreshadowing RJ includes.
So many things to say...1st, I follow both of you, and can’t get enough! 2nd in reference to beginning the series with EoW prologue; it has to happen! Then the braking of world can be shown per Nae’blis and then that world breaking animation/cinematic scene becomes the beginning credits for all following episodes. It doesn’t matter that new people to the series won’t know wtf is happening, either did we and it sets the tone for the dreaded prophecy of the Dragon. All will
Come to understand the import...it will make rewatching just as valuable as reading the the books again. I hope they include as much of Jordan’s fore shadowing from the novels in the show as possible, and that prologue is one of the most critical bits. It must happen, make the first episode an hour and 15 if need be. Keep up the WoT streams, seriously can’t get enough!
The prologue sets up the first dream conversation for Rand. It is directly mentioned in that conversation.
Elayne having trouble when wearing a veil speaks straight to what you are talking about with the descriptive sections adding depth to the story...Elayne literally looks down her nose at people!
45:15 without the prologue i would never have finished the book back in 1995. i spent years reading the books just to understand what that prologue was.
I feel the prologue should be introduced through Thom as a history. Have it filmed as a flashback as Thom is educating the boys about the history of the ages.
Steve Bridge that’s a great idea!!!
Hey Daniel, just finished Nae'Blis's vid. I really like both your videos
I wish I could already be finished with this series so I could join the discussion and forum talks
. I'm only on the second book. The first book was kinda slow but the 2nd one really takes off! I'm really enjoying it. So far I like Lan, Moiraine and Thom the gleeman
Something came to mind while Nae'blis was talking about the many examples of miscommunication. I now realize Robert Jordan wrote the dialogue with a purpose and I think that the miscommunication is just an example of how so many things happen like that in real life. He'll the job I have now, one of the biggest issues we have is departments not communicating with eachother. It does throw everything out of wacky because everyone thinks they know all the information they need. ROBERT JORDAN totally brings this out in the story. Oh and Nae'blis... the word you are looking for in reference to Graendal is EXCESS. She is a great example of excess on a grand scale in fact. A Graendal scale. I think an easy way to incorporate sharans into the show would be to have some sharans in the crowds of big cities. Maybe Demondred sent eyes and ears for the shadow to the bigger cities to track things or certain people.
My favorite WoT Talk so far!
all i wanted was Gordon Ramsey as Uno , but now i also want Daniel as Olver
Good cliff hanger moment in the middle of the great hunt is the lose of the Horn at the Inn in Caihrien. Hero's low point or using the Portal Stone with Verin shouting "something is gone wrong!" allowing for the tale the next season to start with Egwene imprisoned. I have noticed many series like Magicians and Cloak & Dagger and The Expanse do this mid season climax and do it with great success. I think the Eye of the World could be done in 6 or 7 episodes with a change like meeting Loial on the outskirts of Shadarlogoth entering the gateway and getting to Camelin that way eliminating the long road. The Myrdraal attacks Thom, Mat, and Perrin while they're trying for a look at Logan. They flee the city leaving Thom behind for Caihrien but don't enter instead find the kings Park and the Way gate there, Perrin has his awakening there to the wolf brothers. Moraine, Lan, Egwene and Nynieve follow helped by the link on Perrins coin. and the Ta'verin nature of the boys leads them to Shienar. Into the blight for an episode and the Eye for another episode. Not a great story arch but sacrifices will need to be made
The two of you go together like cheese and pizza. More collabs 👍🏻
I think the prologue was very interesting. I never realised it was futuristic, until some books later, so they need to emphasise that. But if people see the prologue and then see a time jump, and see this late medieval/Renaissance community, it leaves many interesting questions as to what has happened. Plus the mentions about the Dragon/Lews Therin negative perception will make it even more intriguing, and a few mentions to the Breaking of the World will make it very interesting. I don't want a huge exposition dump explaining what happens in one go, in needs to come organically, as if we were the Two Rivers kids learning about the history of the world. Look at GOT, pieces of Robert's rebellion was revealed throughout the episodes.
Graendal is one of the most interesting characters in the books. She is a bundle of contradictions and misdirection and the ultimate survivor. Graendal doesn't buy into any of the Team Evil goals, she is Team Graendal. She doesn't care about being the favorite of the Dark One, or doing his bidding, or any of that. Yet she is right there shoulder to shoulder with true believers like Moridin and Mesaana and Rahvin, and all of them have a completely wrong idea about who Graendal is. All of Graendal's sledgehammer Compulsion and apparent love of decadence is a façade. Graendal has a very deft and fine control of Compulsion, as we later learn during the Last Battle. She does not want her fellow Forsaken to know that though, so she hides her ability with her mindless adoring thralls. And her pets are really just furniture, to keep the other Forsaken thinking that she cares about beauty and the pleasures of the flesh above all else. She isn't nearly as attached to that sort of thing as she wants other people to believe she is. She doesn't even care about being a ruler or a general. And Graendal doesn't revel in cruelty the way other Forsaken do, one could argue that making her thralls mindless but happy is a mercy of a kind. It's certainly better than the way Semirhage treats people that fall into her orbit.
On the other hand, Graendal has a VERY clear idea of who the other Forsaken are, and how they can and can't be nudged to keep herself in a good spot. She understands why they do the things they do, why they might be convinced to consider herself an ally, and how they might be used to serve her purposes. Asmodean and Aran'gar especially fatally miscalculated who Graendal is, and provided some memorable story moments and a longstanding mystery for the fans. Remember 'who killed Asmodean?' Graendal has layers. I think Graendal is underappreciated as a character.
Demandred, on the other hand, is a plot device. HIs motivation is very similar to Sammael and Rahvin and Be'lal. He is jealous of Lews Therin, wants to be a king, etc. Pretty standard, boring motivation. Then he pops up with his attempt at a deus ex machina during the Last Battle, and laughably tries to call out Lews Therin for a one-on-one duel with swords, of all things. He makes a big splash, but he is ultimately pretty dumb. "Lews Therin" isn't even there, and the person he is now would never play this game on Demandred's terms. But Demandred has no concept of the game that is actually being played, and is still behaving as if this is War Of Power, Part Deux. He makes a big splash, but if the goal is to win the Last Battle, he showed up on the wrong battlefield, and prepared for the wrong fight.
Switching gears, I think snippets of the prologue should be peppered throughout the first season, to show Rand's growing awareness of who he is. A series of hazy, inchoate, dreamlike vignettes, depicting parts of that scene from a first-person perspective. I'm envisioning shots of Ilyena, smiling and alive, then cut to her blood-streaked blonde hair amid the rubble of the palace. And as the episodes progress, you start seeing Ishamael, and begin to hear his voice. Then, as the prologue to the episode in season one when Moiraine proclaims Rand the Dragon Reborn, after Aginor and Balthamel are defeated at the Eye Of The World, that sequence should be shown in its entirety. This time, though, it should be shown with clarity, from a third-person perspective, almost verbatim from the books. This builds a fascination for what these visions are and what they mean. It could also be cut into the episodes in such a way that you're not sure which character is having the visions, to maintain the idea for show-only types that any one of these three yokels could be The Chosen One™.
Your "Switching gears" point is really good. That prologue has thrown everybody I know that hasn't "got into" the books nor even half way thru EotW.
It's frustrating to see that out of context death followed by a "shire" retread, kill someone's motivation... even when they were warned!
📕📚😤
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📖😵💭👺💣🌋🌀🌊☔⚡🐲
Love this reply, its spot on
You analyze characters so deeply and well. I could read an entire essay you write about WoT characters haha
I really wish you’d join Daniel’s Discord (you too Twiggie Leon), but I’ll stop bothering you about it after this.
That LTT sequence method sounds like it could be really captivating. I would worry whether new audiences would understand what is going on, but with the right transitions and music, I think it would work.
@@rossj4755 I am a member of Daniel's Discord and a few others, but I'm only rarely able to carve out time to look around. It all moves so fast, and it's hard to know where and when I should be directing my attention on Discord.
@@Siansonea
Just go into the WoT Spoilers channel and say "I have an opinion that I would like to share," and type out your thought, and people will read it and talk about it. It does move fast, but there's no real order, just kinda a free-flowing thing!
Just in response to the question of did the fans grow. I loved and read the books, the latter books even as they came out. But with Jordan gone, i hadnt expected to see the series return to the spotlight, as much as i loved it
47:25 holy shit you just cracked a nut. yes, end of the season, the last thing in the first season should be that prologue, it is just too much for the start of the show, but at the very end of a season, probably ending in fal dara before they go to the eye btw, it would blow people's minds. after all that they have seen to see the power used the way it is used in the prologue would drop their jaws, to really understand that the power is allot more than it looks like. yes yes yes, i hope they do this.
lews therin MELTED large parts of his home, and scrambled the whole thing up. but in a video context you can't explain that or how it happened, or why, i don't think people would be able to feel the horrific implications of the prologue without knowing the world first, they should push the kinslayer aspect a little more than they did in the first book, then show them kinslayer at the end of the first season.
of course NOT who the dragon is, just kinslayer with an acknowledgement that he is the dragon. shock the hell out of them.
It is fairly common for the first episode to be a bit longer in streamed series nowadays so I am hoping they get 90 minutes or something or that to cover the first 13 chapters. I think one of the biggest mistakes they could make is to rush it too much to "get to the action" and leave audiences confused about what is going on.
As they say here I think they need 12-13 episodes to cover the first 2 books and hopefully they get that but Amazon usually gives 10 episodes I think so we will see. It will be problematic to end midway through a book since RJ made the first few books to have natural contained story arcs.
I believe they have confirmed that the first season will be 8 episodes so I don’t think they will have enough time to do all of great Hunt. Now I have not read New Spring but I wonder if they would include it in season 1.
@Jim LoganI think they're 60 minute episodes and if they are just doing The Eye of the World, they could easily adapt it all in 8 episodes. Mathematically that's 480 minutes for a 782 page book, so about 1 minute for every 2 pages. You could easily do that considering how descriptive Jordan's writing style is and still have some time to flesh out characters like Mat who's biggest problem is his lack of focus until Book 3/4
@Jim LoganMy guess is that the first season will just be the first book. If it's an 8 episode season that's plenty to adapt Eye of the World and get people hooked. I'd then probably say that Season 2 would cover The Great Hunt and The Dragon Reborn, Season 3 The Shadow Rising and half of The Fires of Heaven, Season 4 the second half of The Fires of Heaven and Lord of Chaos. Season 5 would probably be A Crown of Swords and The Path of Daggers, Season 6 would be Winter's Heart, Crossroads of Twilight, and Knife of Dreams. After that either do Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight individually or as a combined single season. A Memory of Light would have to be one season on its own just because of how long that book is.
I'd also guess that the 8 episode starting number I honestly don't remember where I read it, so I could be wrong and I wouldn't be surprise if the seasons fluctuate in episode length and number because this is a streaming service show so it's easier to do that.
have you got a link to confirming it was 8 episodes. I thought that was the witcher.
But if book 1 and 2 will be season 1, do u think 5 episodes will be enough per book? I doubt it. Maybe 8 episodes for book 1 and 2 for book 2 continuing with season 2 is better if they can do book 1 in less than 10 episodes.
Daniel - I like your point about Rahvin, what little role he played was immense. He completely destabilized the most powerful nation without much effort. What I don't want to see and I've heard it before from others, I think even you had mentioned it, is the Morgase storyline which then leads to the Shaido and Malden and her eventual return to Caemlyn which, imo, does not really serve the story.
Should of start with eye of the world or new spring?
If Moiraine is the main character, would they start with Rand? Or would the do some of New Spring? Although, they obviously can’t keep her as the main character throughout. So, perhaps they will start with Rand and just focus more on her as it goes on.
I think the prologue should be little cut scene flashes (I dare not call them flashbacks) but done throughout the season(s). I think it should be mysterious and I the audience to be questioning wth is it. Did you watch Breaking Bad? There was a while that they would open with the black and white clips of the aftermath of the plane crash but you were just completely unaware of what it was until it happened. That is sorta what I am talking about. Or not, you know. Whatevs.
I hope WOT gets a brand new cast so wot watchers can’t complain about this actor/actress isn’t any good etc, etc.
I think a place if safety is Shadar Logoth. Irony is a bitch.
Shadetree Surgeon sent me here
When it comes to the Forsaken, I personally feel condensing them into maybe 6 or 7 people, most likely 7 (analogy for the 7 deadly sins). Not only would this cut lower the number of casts and plotlines, but also makes the Forsaken a lot more effective antagonist, rather than glass cannons who pretty much keel over when Rands frowns in their direction.
Ishamael\Moridin should stay the same, obviously. Lanfear should be merged with Simerhage and Graendal; this will give you a character who is highly manipulative, hedonistic as well as sadistic, with an obsession fixated on the main character. Doesn't she sound a lot more dangerous than all 3 of her parts already?
I'd combine Demandred and Sammael, both are very similar characters anyway; both master strategists with a burning hatred/jealousy for the Dragon. Mesaana and Moghedian as a single character would be deadlier than either of them; mixing the spiders skills with espionage and assassinations with Mesaanas cool, calculated intelligence. And as easy as that I've managed to condense 8 forsaken down to 4, most of whom are a lot more effecftive than they were in the books.
hey guys as to math's strangenes, him being prejudice's and smart. thats because you have math and then you have al the old memorie's. so yes you get conflicting traites in a person when there are multible persoons in his head
My boys! =)
Daniel Greene for Oliver xD xD
A question about the adaptation. It took me a while to realise that Semirhage and Tuon were black. Do you think it will be controversial that one of the most evil characters and the leader of a slave owning culture is portrayed as black on screen?
There are more non-white characters though. Leane and Juilin are two examples.
they better get moiraine telling the story of manetherine to emond's field right. it is VERY important.
Mat has EVERY reason to be reluctant to be touched by the One Power/Aes Sedai, even to be healed by it.
1. He cannot know what an Aes Sedai will actually do - Rand was raped/bonded by one pretending to just want to heal him. The three oaths are useless, they hardly protect ppl from Aes Sedai. In a way, the Forsaken are much more honest than the "white" tower.
2. He knows Aes Sedai are fully aware that Mat is a strong taveeren. Which means he knows, Aes Sedai will most definitely try to leech onto him and use him in their plans.
3. If you are healed by Aes Sedai, they can find you anywhere. Which is not something Mat would ever want.
Mat's reluctance towards Aes Sedai is absolutely reasonable. Aes Sedai do nothing but use ppl like him, keep them alive only to have them serve their purposes in the future. Its not that he hates them (like most Whitecloaks), he just cannot ever trust them.
Although I don't want it to happen their is a strong likelihood that they wheels of time will end with the Dragon Reborn. I would love to see the whole series done but the pessimist in me thinks that it is huberus to assume that the show runners will do the whole series.
I hated Mat at the beginning of the series but by the end he was my favorite.
subbed to both of you. although darkfriends.... careful dan.
i got banned from dragonmount right before the sanderson content started coming out, it was over curse words in the live chat on their website. fuck them.
literally just the curse words, the cussing, nothing about the actual meaning of what i was saying. once again, fuck them.
I despise Mat, and adore Nynaeve.
Cut the Sea Folk, they're fairly dull
WOT tv show will not be WOT, it is going to follow moraine, yall are talking about Rand and Egwene which should be the simplified focus for WOT tv
The prologue needs to be Moraine finding out the dragon is born bc they are making her the lead. Moraine shouldnt be the lead bc she only around begining, in Tear, and the waste. She isnt there for the rest of the story.
I believe they are beginning the show from Moraine's prospective initially and then the show will expand organically. The parties split early and often and you're absolutely correct that Moraine does not have her hands on every thread of the story arc.
Just my opinion, but, I think they are making Moraine the lead, so that people (new TV Viewers that have not read the books) can love her, and then, when she dies (or so they think), it will be a big deal. TV Shows, now, love killing off major characters, because it gets ratings, because people talk about it. Kind of like Ned Stark in the first season of GoT. Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, SoA, etc. Most of the highest rated shows of all time have unexpected deaths, and I think this TV series will follow suit. People want to be shocked. That's how they get more seasons, and that's how they get through the whole story.
Maybe they will switch the story to Rand and Egwene when Moraine goes thru the door. The problem with the books as written is that when it comes to filming you can have 1-2 lead actors, you cannot have 6 lead actors filming in 3-5 different locations all the time.
@@blueeyedcowboy8291 No i think they did it so the reveal of the Dragon Reborn isn't so obvious. They'll probably spend equal time with Rand, Perrin and Mat, rather than the book, where Rand is the complete focus for basically the whole book.
6:14 ishamael is correct like 100% (allot of bluffing and boasting though) of the time, it is only his conclusion that is wrong. ishamael was never a liar, he just got too full of himself.