Good analysis, I also critique main stream audio product and laugh at the working they use to try and sell snake oil tech to consumers. However I learn a lot watching this channel, like the poly cone length for strength. Anyway great vid ❤
I watched this whole thing and you never explained the purpose of it, you seemed to not understand it's purpose and therefore it must be snake oil. You kept calling this a review, but you literally talked about everything BUT the product and it's purpose, type up a script dude, bullet points, something other than just umming your way through a 20 minute "review" where I'm left hunting for ANY relevant info. There's some great videos on TH-cam about Pro Audio Cardiod Subwoofer arrays, look one of those up and maybe you'll understand the purpose of this project. I can type an entire dissertation, but just watch one of those videos. It's not snake oil, it very much has a specific purpose, and you're damn right us guys with money and a specific need will pay extra for a product that actually does what we're looking for.
Great videos, homie! Learning lots from you. Question....what do you think of Banda amps?? I have a new one in the box, but I'm not sure if i wanna use it next. Also building my first sub soooo wish me luck lol.
I'm having problems soldering a sundown aluminum coil to the tinsel leads. Can you recommend any flux and solder for aluminum that I could find in Europe? I've tried some that need high heat but my 70W soldering iron can't melt it well enough. I've also tried some aluminum fluxes with leaded, lead-free and silver solder, but none of them worked. I saw GS audio sells a kit for soldering aluminum coils but it's very expensive for one or two recones.
Also, can I use a "burnt" coil to recone? It still measures good and doesn't seem to have any loose winds. It had been removed because it rubbed somehow, but it's just a bit burnt and if I just recenter it well, shouldn't it work well again?
It’s an interesting concept but I don’t think I would be interested in it for that price, thank you for all your videos! They are very informative and helpful in understanding more about subwoofers that no one else talks about
First car I was ever able to hairtrick with was using a sealed box in 2004. Tc based subs eq'd down low just like you mentioned. Kinda funny that to this day a lot of modern "designs" that perform well start looking a lot like what thilo did. Jacob has some linear bl tech coming out supposedly. I wonder what his solution is? Didnt tc build some drivers for kef? I know they did for quite a few other home audio companies even monoprice for a while. Is this kef thing in the newest issue or just on the site?
Well it's important to remember that he shares office space with Nick Lemons. Nick lemmons developed obsidian audio as well as stereo integrity. Stereo integrity uses XBL technology from Dan Wiggins formerly of a dire audio. So it's probably going to be a reintroduction of XBL but he may call it something different since he is supposed to look like the boss of everything
@@RobotUndergroundthilo made the mags for him way back too didnt he? I think youre right about using xbl as I remember seeing some posts where he talked about using it mixed with their own bl flattening techniques or something to that effect. Would be interesting to see him actually do something that isnt just derivative and a more extreme version of things already done. Ive got some younger friends in the local car audio scene and they seem to think this stuff is magic. So when I say things like what these guys are doing is barely different then what dr jensen did a couple generations ago they often think im being a "hater" or some bs.
yea price wise it's too much I have 2 klipsh full surround sounds when I worked doing car audio for this home and auto audio dealer yea i got more than 70% off on still work they sound great but would never buy at retail price. the subs are fuckn loud , I do have an issue with one blowing the fuses right away so that's put away the other one sounds great. idk patrick would you be into looking at it or maybe you may have use of it I'm going to phx in about 2 weeks it's the sub 10 hgb powered by a 300w bash amplifier
@@RobotUnderground figured over priced shit and don't get me wrong the design is pretty nice but seems way too flimsy not enough support its rated power. I just seen them on knowledge fest I thought they were passive radiators
In the late 90's KEF made great drivers, speakers, components & subs Their components were very good SQ similar to Focal Flax & at less cost My local car audio shop has NOS but Im weary of buying 30 year old speakers...UV degradation Thanks for the video always great content 🙏
The main reason these companies do these wild and often pointless designs is exactly like you say: gimmicks. Also, they know that home theater guys will pay a TON of money for it. Once in awhile a company will actually come up with an actual new design or concept (Sunfire/Bob Carver, or Thilo for sure), but so few and far between it doesnt matter much. The exact same subwoofer (especially home subs) performance can be had with the normal standard subwoofers, but thats not "fancy". The guys that buy this stuff listen with their eyes (and wallets) before their ears. They will see even a TINY bump in frequency on a graph that doesnt even matter in most sound recordings, and you will never convince them that they cant actually hear that at all. EVER. lol. Most of the mains speakers you see, even somewhat lower to moderate priced gear can be fixed with DSP (obviously not cheap garbage white van style crap) and other software tweaks and placement anymore. But again, thats not expensive and fancy lol. Home theater is another funny thing...but i wont even bother with that (NEW! 17.5 Dolby Digital Ultra Virtual VIsual Audio Playback, with 4D Audio processing!! LOOOL). A lot of these companies DO do some R&D and sometimes it matters a little, but no one ever stops to think (although i think ive heard Patrick say something along these lines once or twice) "if it worked, everyone would be doing it", or everyone would be making a knockoff of it. The only real difference in home subs that matters is generally the size of the drivers and power behind them. Home subs as well as car subs are only using a relatively small frequency band, so what REALLY do they need to accomplish? Most well rounded accurate home stereo systems will not be more than a few hundred watts total. Maybe 5-800 at the VERY most. Anything else is just power and volume for power and volume sake...also bragging rights. No one REALLY needs the same output of an actual movie theater, nor the the same output as a medium to large concert venue. Hell, when i saw Godzilla vs Kong in a nice actual theater..it was WAY too loud, and almost intolerable at certain parts. I 100% guarantee that if you put a head to head of stereo systems from reasonably priced, to incredibly expensive with the same volume settings, with the same tracks most of listeners (even the audio snobs) would hardly tell a difference. Now add DSP/EQ to the lower end gear, and again, youre going to see more and more people being able to tell less and less difference. Its hilarious to think about. Dont get me wrong though, i as well as most of the people here love it as loud as possible, and the fancy gear def catches my eye, but its not ALL about the visual appeal in an audio world unless you cant have it any other way lol.
@RobotUnderground I'm referring to the one in art,music and design found in the natural world and applied by man through man's same creations I don't expect anyone else to see it the same way.
ewwwww whats even worse... it says its a paper cone 5:11 ... looks like their silly funnel proprietary cone... looking at 5:22 its reaaaaally small in there in relation to the surround, more like an 8" cone.... what in the world are they thinking doing a nested design like that... one has a massive oversized VC... that now has to be matched to the other sub... but how can it effectively since you have so much more surface area, wind length, inductance... wtf KEF... holy hell this thing is peak... "we did this!" instead of thinking "should we?" edit: looking on ebay there is one... pair of these drivers for sale... looks like they have some kind of feedback output in the sub on one side to let the amp know whats going on... holy hell complicated for no reason...
The owner of Stereo integrity has opposed subwoofer enclosure in his home theater room. It works. I don't understand your issue. I guess it's all about the price.. Say that and its a shorter video. 👍
You had me at "... Bob Carver's True Subwoofer" 😅, I have 8 of them. Yes, I have a problem.
Good analysis, I also critique main stream audio product and laugh at the working they use to try and sell snake oil tech to consumers. However I learn a lot watching this channel, like the poly cone length for strength. Anyway great vid ❤
Thanks for sharing
I watched this whole thing and you never explained the purpose of it, you seemed to not understand it's purpose and therefore it must be snake oil. You kept calling this a review, but you literally talked about everything BUT the product and it's purpose, type up a script dude, bullet points, something other than just umming your way through a 20 minute "review" where I'm left hunting for ANY relevant info. There's some great videos on TH-cam about Pro Audio Cardiod Subwoofer arrays, look one of those up and maybe you'll understand the purpose of this project. I can type an entire dissertation, but just watch one of those videos. It's not snake oil, it very much has a specific purpose, and you're damn right us guys with money and a specific need will pay extra for a product that actually does what we're looking for.
I agree... This guy is reviewing a restaurant's food without ever actually eating anything from there. Worthless.
Yep, this video is useless
Great videos, homie! Learning lots from you.
Question....what do you think of Banda amps?? I have a new one in the box, but I'm not sure if i wanna use it next. Also building my first sub soooo wish me luck lol.
Meh. Expensive amps. Practice, practice, practice on dead subs.
I am thinking of getting two rel s/9x for music only, any other recomendations? I dont need it to perform in a home cinema.
Make your own
I'm having problems soldering a sundown aluminum coil to the tinsel leads. Can you recommend any flux and solder for aluminum that I could find in Europe?
I've tried some that need high heat but my 70W soldering iron can't melt it well enough. I've also tried some aluminum fluxes with leaded, lead-free and silver solder, but none of them worked.
I saw GS audio sells a kit for soldering aluminum coils but it's very expensive for one or two recones.
Also, can I use a "burnt" coil to recone? It still measures good and doesn't seem to have any loose winds. It had been removed because it rubbed somehow, but it's just a bit burnt and if I just recenter it well, shouldn't it work well again?
You can ask "solder direct" or order off of Amazon
It’s an interesting concept but I don’t think I would be interested in it for that price, thank you for all your videos! They are very informative and helpful in understanding more about subwoofers that no one else talks about
Alpine got that new subwoofer 11" weird surround. Hdz 110 is product name
First car I was ever able to hairtrick with was using a sealed box in 2004. Tc based subs eq'd down low just like you mentioned. Kinda funny that to this day a lot of modern "designs" that perform well start looking a lot like what thilo did. Jacob has some linear bl tech coming out supposedly. I wonder what his solution is?
Didnt tc build some drivers for kef? I know they did for quite a few other home audio companies even monoprice for a while.
Is this kef thing in the newest issue or just on the site?
Well it's important to remember that he shares office space with Nick Lemons. Nick lemmons developed obsidian audio as well as stereo integrity. Stereo integrity uses XBL technology from Dan Wiggins formerly of a dire audio. So it's probably going to be a reintroduction of XBL but he may call it something different since he is supposed to look like the boss of everything
@@RobotUndergroundthilo made the mags for him way back too didnt he?
I think youre right about using xbl as I remember seeing some posts where he talked about using it mixed with their own bl flattening techniques or something to that effect.
Would be interesting to see him actually do something that isnt just derivative and a more extreme version of things already done. Ive got some younger friends in the local car audio scene and they seem to think this stuff is magic. So when I say things like what these guys are doing is barely different then what dr jensen did a couple generations ago they often think im being a "hater" or some bs.
What s you opinion on stereo integrity?
For the most part it's overpriced but there are some good deals but it's important to consider other companies that build similar products like Skar
@@RobotUnderground what about the performance,you can buy things second hand
If you have high end speakers you never throw aftermarket drivers in it anyway mine are 50 years old I got my driver rebuilt thay a semi transparent
Kef was just way too high like snoop on their prices. But I love the design of the dual motor subwoofer
yea price wise it's too much I have 2 klipsh full surround sounds when I worked doing car audio for this home and auto audio dealer yea i got more than 70% off on still work they sound great but would never buy at retail price. the subs are fuckn loud , I do have an issue with one blowing the fuses right away so that's put away the other one sounds great. idk patrick would you be into looking at it or maybe you may have use of it I'm going to phx in about 2 weeks it's the sub 10 hgb powered by a 300w bash amplifier
Patrick have you seen those new trulli subwoofers
meh.
@@RobotUnderground figured over priced shit and don't get me wrong the design is pretty nice but seems way too flimsy not enough support its rated power. I just seen them on knowledge fest I thought they were passive radiators
I’ll buy it 😂
In the late 90's KEF made great drivers, speakers, components & subs
Their components were very good SQ similar to Focal Flax & at less cost
My local car audio shop has NOS but Im weary of buying 30 year old speakers...UV degradation
Thanks for the video always great content 🙏
Thanks for the info!
The main reason these companies do these wild and often pointless designs is exactly like you say: gimmicks. Also, they know that home theater guys will pay a TON of money for it. Once in awhile a company will actually come up with an actual new design or concept (Sunfire/Bob Carver, or Thilo for sure), but so few and far between it doesnt matter much.
The exact same subwoofer (especially home subs) performance can be had with the normal standard subwoofers, but thats not "fancy". The guys that buy this stuff listen with their eyes (and wallets) before their ears. They will see even a TINY bump in frequency on a graph that doesnt even matter in most sound recordings, and you will never convince them that they cant actually hear that at all. EVER. lol. Most of the mains speakers you see, even somewhat lower to moderate priced gear can be fixed with DSP (obviously not cheap garbage white van style crap) and other software tweaks and placement anymore. But again, thats not expensive and fancy lol. Home theater is another funny thing...but i wont even bother with that (NEW! 17.5 Dolby Digital Ultra Virtual VIsual Audio Playback, with 4D Audio processing!! LOOOL).
A lot of these companies DO do some R&D and sometimes it matters a little, but no one ever stops to think (although i think ive heard Patrick say something along these lines once or twice) "if it worked, everyone would be doing it", or everyone would be making a knockoff of it. The only real difference in home subs that matters is generally the size of the drivers and power behind them. Home subs as well as car subs are only using a relatively small frequency band, so what REALLY do they need to accomplish?
Most well rounded accurate home stereo systems will not be more than a few hundred watts total. Maybe 5-800 at the VERY most. Anything else is just power and volume for power and volume sake...also bragging rights. No one REALLY needs the same output of an actual movie theater, nor the the same output as a medium to large concert venue. Hell, when i saw Godzilla vs Kong in a nice actual theater..it was WAY too loud, and almost intolerable at certain parts.
I 100% guarantee that if you put a head to head of stereo systems from reasonably priced, to incredibly expensive with the same volume settings, with the same tracks most of listeners (even the audio snobs) would hardly tell a difference. Now add DSP/EQ to the lower end gear, and again, youre going to see more and more people being able to tell less and less difference. Its hilarious to think about.
Dont get me wrong though, i as well as most of the people here love it as loud as possible, and the fancy gear def catches my eye, but its not ALL about the visual appeal in an audio world unless you cant have it any other way lol.
You make some very good points, it was a pleasure to read.
Old boomers will will swear by old timey floppy speakers.
Hey Patrick you should share your playlist. You turned me on to some bitchin music
It's on here. it's on my playlist of music videos that I build subwoofers to. It's only a tiny fraction but it's a well manicured sample
👍👀👍
What’s with 💩 words out in left field?
Your mom doesn't mind that kind of pillow talk.
Hey I don't have an active phone number rn, is there a way I can direct message you somewhere?
Facebook.com/authenticpatrickchandler
Octaves,the Golden ratio 👍
The Golden Ratio is not what people think it is.
@RobotUnderground I'm referring to the one in art,music and design found in the natural world and applied by man through man's same creations
I don't expect anyone else to see it the same way.
ewwwww whats even worse... it says its a paper cone 5:11 ... looks like their silly funnel proprietary cone... looking at 5:22 its reaaaaally small in there in relation to the surround, more like an 8" cone....
what in the world are they thinking doing a nested design like that... one has a massive oversized VC... that now has to be matched to the other sub... but how can it effectively since you have so much more surface area, wind length, inductance... wtf KEF... holy hell this thing is peak... "we did this!" instead of thinking "should we?"
edit: looking on ebay there is one... pair of these drivers for sale... looks like they have some kind of feedback output in the sub on one side to let the amp know whats going on... holy hell complicated for no reason...
Time to take those old Kickers and make your own badass home theater subwoofer
@@RobotUnderground nah, i got my 8 x super-soft suspension acoustic elegance 15s in the attic doing that, 17 years and still going strong
kf 92 rebranding
This is all new! You should buy it! Ignore the creepy old man behind the curtain
I can make better sounding with Newark drivers & power tools 🔧 by accident 😂🎉
Music Mafia will cum n get ya!
@@RobotUnderground Come on down... we can party 🥳 🤪 or play OK corral... either way 💯 🤷 getting closer to The Jeez-uz lol 😆
12:35 did you forget about the pole vent?
Also, um um um um um um um um.
The owner of Stereo integrity has opposed subwoofer enclosure in his home theater room. It works. I don't understand your issue. I guess it's all about the price..
Say that and its a shorter video. 👍
If you have lots of money you can do whatever the fuck you want. You're in the same boat with the guy that got the Black widow neck tattoo
@@RobotUnderground his home theater subs are quite reasonably priced in my opinion. Optimized for sealed enclosure is the shtick.
KEF's claim to fame was all from Andrew Jones speaker design in the KF50 jones left and KEF is trying too hard
2 grand for that? Ha! Gimme 500 bucks and I'll build a sealed enclosure that'll destroy that thing.
Disney, haha