A2k started pretty well and it grew on me. Some people might dislike this man jyp but he knows how to produce girl groups. Wishing them success for thier debut
I agree. Despite what people think about JYP - I personally think he's among the top CEOs in K-pop compared to others, he produces some great girl groups. I also wish A2K well on their debut.
watching these contests by JYP has given me much respect towards him. He always looks so rigid, but through the shows, he is very humble and tries to say things in the best light, sometimes bluntly but most of the time positive.
I think A2K girls would succeed seeing how they already have this kpop feel to them and I love their personality and chemistry with each other which is something that kpop fans love about kpop. I’m supporting them all the way!
You should watch BabyMonster. They already completed their journey to forming the group but its so much better than what JYP did with VCHA. YG showcase a lot more and did much more with BabyMonster compare to what JYP did with VCHA.
I think you accidentally reversed the Eastern and Western culture differences. Asian cultures are collectivist societies, while we in the west are individualistic. Eastern cultures prioritize discipline so much more than us, we are more freedom-focused
Yeah, I can't wait to see the Neflix documentary on the upcoming reality show. Quite curious to see Hybe and Geffen Record's strategy on creating a global group.
@@Popsori no, its the worst line up ever. only pretty girls without talent. i dont like hybe survival shows cuz you can definetly watch that trainees are doin lip sync and the pre recorded voices are fully auto tuned.
@@PopsoriNOPE the final line up is a joke, the most talented members were yeeted out of the show. I recommend you to watch the Bad Boy performance of one unit in the show and you'll be shocked to know that none debuted from that unit
One thing I've noticed about Kpop is that with enough money you can secure success for your group, and while you still need HUGE financial backing to be successful in the west it's meant to look like organic growth, and even singers with huge labels behind them they can still fail if they feel inauthentic.
I do think money helps you get more promotions and funding to put out a group, yes. But like you hinted, money only goes so far. But I do think branding and powerful labels are more important. For instance, a major reason why A2K and the upcoming Dream Academy reality shows are making a huge wave among int'l fans is because they're from JYP and Hybe, which are Big 4 companies. Big labels + organic growth are most likely the best ways to grow a new group, especially overseas.
That's feels false to me, some of the biggest music acts in the west have been inauthentic groups from New Kids on the Block, Nsync, Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, Pussy Cat Dolls, One Direction, Little Mix, Fifth Harmony. The fact is that naturally forming groups is just way harder then going solo or forming a band and so you see organically form pop groups very rarely. So when it comes to groups, the west really doesn't care how they get them as long as they get them and their good.
Money doesn't guarantee success in the music business. JYP has a lot of groups including Twice, Stray Kids & Itzy and as long as they stay in Korea, they will thrive. USA is not really friendly towards Asian singers sadly so VCHA could fail in America but succeed in Asian countries.
it would be nice if the final a2k members will be the next american girl group who can sing, rap, and dance. But i want them to sing in english and to be promoted in america or in global stage.
They are gonna sing in english just like how NiziU sings in japanese (maybe having korean/japanese/spanish versions of their english songs but that's it)
Yes, I think they'll be singlng in english as well. They might have some songs that are korean/english mix like the normal K-POP groups but the majority of the songs written for them will be in English. They've already performed several english versions of popular kpop songs and personally I think it was great.
you can get success from being Viral on TikTok, and people don't care if you are korean or not: CUPID, New Jeans... If JYP markets them right and give them a unique personality and creative direction, they can make it globally and have their audience, they don't need to belong to a specific country to make money. It's all about good music, if JYP invest in good content and the girls are charismatic, they will get an audience
they look promising since they have at least 5 contestants who are musically inclined and has wrote, composed, and produced their own songs before like releasing few singles. I'm sure JYP is still training them to speak Korean but I wish they would just market them as a global gg same as XG. I hope they will be trained liek Nmixx&Xdinary Heroes vocally and through their intruments.
I mean, that's basically the end goal, which is to be a global gg. The A2K main market would be the West, similar to how NiziU's main market is Japan, even though they were trained through the K-pop system. I'm sure they'll go on Korean music shows from time-to-time but I'm assuming their music will be in English only. It will be interesting to see if A2K and HYBE's Dream Academy will take off. There is a market for a western girl group since there's not a big one at the moment.
@@MrSuperjam789I actually don't know why people is still confused about them "singing in korean", it's clear that they are gonna sing in english and promote in the West
As an American, kpop entirely fascinates simply because its a window into a totally different culture: that's the appeal. The whole family communal nature with honorifics, this is very different from western focus on individuality and independence. We have variety shows in the states I couldn't care less about cause they're one note and passe to me. I find shows like knowing bros, old weekly idol and all the unique to me korean variety shows more interesting cause it's an actual culture study. The whole idea of an American kpop group is ass backwards to me, it's like someone is actively trying to disinterest me. The risk of overexposure and pushback is very real.
For sure, I think the appeal into a vastly different culture, Korean, is a huge appeal to Westerners. Like you said, the whole respect thing in Korea (and Asian countries, in general), being part of a group, family, and honorifics when speaking is like living in a different world from the US. I can see how an American K-pop group may turn off many people, and in A2K's case, it's not the girl's fault. Rather, it's that the K-pop group won't have Korean culture and language behind it, since the girls grew up in the US / Canada. The experiment of Western girls backed up by JYP and K-pop training will be interesting. Let's see if groups like A2K and Dream Academy can carve out a niche in the US.
Like you said, I'm thinking the A2K girls are going to Korea since JYP has his main HQ and training center in Seoul. I do agree with you that foreigners like K-Entertainment because it's not English / Western based. But we'll see what happen and if the casual, non-K-pop American will like the A2K and even Dream Academy group.
I think they won't either. The only way an American group with girls as young as Kaylee and Gina are supported is if they come from a Disney background or similar kids-friendly vibe. In JYP and A2K's case, they have to play this extremely safe, leaning towards cutesy and fun songs until the two become adults.
My two biggest concerns with a A2K is definitely the age of the girls and how fast this whole process is from auditions to debut. The regional auditions were around this time last year so the timeframe from auditions to the expected debut is only about a year and a half which for trainees is extremely fast. Not sure why they’re trying to rush this so much, definitely think the group could use another one to two years for training.
But isn't the training system one of the most important features of kpop that sets it apart from other industries? But I agree, this show seems to be more westernized.
Same here. It’s hard to believe the amount of (non-Asian) Asiaboos I’ve encountered who are deluded enough to think that they “need” to be an actual K-pop star to pursue such dreams.
I am thinking that only kpop has a clear system on how to make a star or at least how to get into the big stage. In the west it's really not clear how to get there when you are just a teenager. I guess that's why kpop lures people to try.
I agree. I think with K-pop, it's audition, pass said audition, then train until your debut. The path is a lot more clear than Western idol groups when they were popular.
You left out the success of Fifth Harmony, the most recent western girl group around. They were pretty big and with them gone, there's a girl group vacuum in the West. Ever since Fifth Harmony and One Direction disbanded, those groups' target audiences either turned to Kpop because there was no one else in the english speaking market to satisfy their general desire for a music group, or they turned to soloists because they werent necessarily interested in korean culture. Yes, Korean culture fascination plays into why a lot of people enjoy kpop, but you forget about the more broad market of people who just want girl/boy groups in general and could care less about whether they come from korea or not, or they may actually care and inversely would prefer a western group. These global groups will tap into so many different markets: the kpop market, the general western market, the broad overarching market of people who want girl/boy groups, and the more specific market of people who would prefer an english speaking or western group (which, as I mentioned, exists in a vacuum right now). I think overall this is all meant as a multi-faceted experiment: 1. To see if the girl group market in the West is still alive (maybe its dead, maybe its dormant, or maybe its desperate and turned to korea to compensate); 2. To see if Western audiences will respond well to the kpop system if its directed specifically at them (and not mostly at Korea) 3. To try to understand to what extent korean culture plays into the success of kpop (is it the system or the culture? Is it the style of music or the fact that koreans are performing it? Who knows?) 4. If the kpop system functions like a factory, will that be replicable in the West? And 5. To test the potential of a Global girl group that could not only appeal to Korea and the West, but to every country/culture in between (Dream Academy is trying harder in this area than A2K but it still applies to both). If Blackpink, Twice, New Jeans, and even 50/50 can be so popular in the West, why not a group made FOR the West? First and foremost, this is an experiment.
I think DA and A2K will do ok with the international K-pop fanbase, but I'll be surprised if they manage to reach much outside it. Companies are going to eventually conclude they are probably better off just putting a lot of foreign trainees in their Korean groups. At least as long as the domestic Korean audience will go along with it.
Both can work in Latin America if the latin ones debut (Camila, Yuna, Cristina and Savannah from A2K and the Brazilian and the argentinian one from DA)
Great video, very informative, and many of the points you made make so much sense. Another point I have to add is in the West there is a way we perceive groups nowadays in 2023, and I'm not sure if the Korean take will translate well. People always say there's a Beyonce in the group, many girl groups have one member that's pushed to the forefront due to popularity, in Korea they normally push all the members who are popular and place them under positions, rather than allowing the audience to choose themselves. Plus the group cannot just do Pop music, there's a girls group called BOYZ WORLD who debuted recently and they have not gotten any traction because they do the Y2K Pop sound. The West didn't gravitate towards them, but they do like FLO a Rnb girl group that debuted last year. Flo is doing extremely well for their Rnb sound, vocals, and charisma. Newjeans literally does what BOYZ WORLD does with the Y2K garage sound and they are well-received in Korea and Western K-pop fans. I'm not sure how A2K will be received, but I do feel they are targeting younger teens as most of the members are younger than/or 17. I feel the standards are stricter on Western groups as we have multiple groups that are legendary to compare to, so for A2K they will be compared to those groups. If they don't fit that mold it will be hard for them to get noticed.
This was a really fascinating video! I'm a non-US Westerner new to K-pop. I found A2K within a week of discovering that K-pop is awesome and I’ve been following them and Nizi Project season 2 very closely. I’m excited to watch Dream Academy! (If it is streamed for free on TH-cam because I don’t know how else to watch it.) You brought up a lot of points I had not thought about before. As you took the trouble to make such a thought-provoking video, I had a few thoughts I would like to respectfully share. I'm going to use the term "Americans/Westerners" or "A/W" unless I specifically mean one or the other. Marketing: "A2K is an American group." Camila, the leader, and Melissa are Canadian. It's true that the world doesn't notice much (any?) difference between Canadians and Americans, but Canada, despite quite a small population, is a top 10 music market that is bigger than Brazil's. Canada also tends to have a harmless, "small country" reputation like Denmark or Portugal. This might help with the marketing to other Western countries if A2K plays up the international aspect of the group - also including that Camila is of Cuban heritage and is multilingual, and the various ethnic backgrounds that the other girls have including Korean. K-pop fans seem to feel very proud of the extra talents of and languages spoken by their favourite groups' members, and A2K has a lot to offer here! "Will they be too Korean-ized for an American/W audience?" Although the US is the biggest music market, there is a vast international market, which is neither American nor East Asian which is available to appreciate something new which might have more elements of familiarity than an all-Korean group. "Will they be too American/W for a Korean audience?" If A2K were to become wildly successful, would Koreans fear that K-pop is going to be westernized in a way that would dilute what makes K-pop special? In general, I think you're underestimating the A/W tolerance or respect for other countries' customs and rules of behaviour that are expected of everybody living in that country, regardless of their national origin. A/W would find it very disrespectful for A/W in Korea to not bow or observe all the expected formalities. Although individualism is considered important, A/W tend to be VERY concerned about not offending anybody, and would be much more likely to overdo the formalities rather than neglect them. And these A2K girls in particular are anxious to be as respectful and deferential as possible, as their entire dream is to become idols which means they wish to be approved of by Koreans. Humbleness: When you were highlighting the differences between American and Korean culture, what you wrote about Korean culture traditionally fits Great Britain and by extension Canada and the other Commonwealth countries. Self-effacing, never pushing oneself forward, allowing the praise of oneself by others, but also rather embarrassed by it. For example, Canadians expect their successful athletes to be polite and to thank their coaches and parents, and everybody who has ever helped them along the way from kindergarten onwards. Braggarts are not appreciated. There are also many Americans who share these preferences. Criticism: I watched Nizi Project season one last week, and I was astonished at how much stricter/harsher Mr. Park was with Nizi candidates. I was also surprised at how much they cried, but the worst thing was that nobody ever had a tissue or was given a tissue. They had to make do with their hands. Is that a cultural thing? As for judges being mean without being constructive, that has been a standard feature of A/W talent contests for decades now. It started with "The weakest link", and then Simon Cowell on "American Idol" became famous for it. I was very pleasantly surprised when Mr. Park gave very detailed constructive advice to the Nizi candidates in both seasons. I am extremely impressed that he can say detailed, technical things in three languages! Creative control in K-pop: Nobody could realistically expect A2K to write their own songs from the beginning of their careers, nor that they would/should be able to display all the individualism they individually might like to (and might, if they were in the A/W music industry.) Creative control new artists have in the A/W music industry: Regardless of which country, they want to sell an image of a star or band members freely expressing his or her individual personality. However, the likelihood that they use numerous focus groups to find out what "personality" is going to sell the best to the target demographic is very, very high. Indeed, it would be a reckless business practice to not use focus groups. Thank you very much for this very interesting video. Subscribed! 🙏😃💐 I wish A2K all the success in the world. 🥰
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm truly humbled to read your kind comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and watching A2K and Dream Academy. With that said, let's get to your comments. I'll use the same abbreviations as you, such as "A/W" and even spell using the British / Canadian way lol (using "ur" for behaviour" for instance.) Let's go! Marketing: I do agree that having a multilingual group will help the group. JYP's standard for his idols is to speak at least two languages (usually Korean and English) and preferably three (usually Korean / English / Japanese). Canada does have that more friendly, pristine image from the world, true. The US is also highly respected in Korea as well. I remember a poll in Korea back in 2018 or so of countries most respected by Koreans. The US was number 1. "Will they be too Korean-ized for an A/W audience?": I agree that there's a lot of other countries, outside of the US, that could appreciate this group. "Will they be too A/W for a Korean audience?": While I do agree that the A2K girls are quite respectful and humble, I do think they're the exception, not the norm. These girls knew what they were signing up for and studied the Korean landscape to know manners and respect. Yet, with general manners and respect outside of A2K-like shows, I do think Western culture is a lot more relaxed in these aspects. For instance, there's really no formalities in formal speech, outside of "yes, sir" and "yes, madam" or saying "please" and "thank you." In Korean, there's nine levels of politeness, ranging from very informal and lax to incredibly respectful that you'd say to presidents, royalty, or the CEO of Samsung. If you use the wrong formality in Korean or don't bow towards elders, it's considered incredibly rude and shows you have no manners. Such formality does simply not exist in the English language. When I moved back from Korea to the US (California) back in 2022 (I lived in Korea for almost 12 years), I experienced major culture shock. I saw more kids not respecting elders, which is a no-no in Asia. I've seen a lot of kids talking back, cursing, etc. for the smallest things. I don't see people talking respectfully to elders or their boss. And I don't see many people not thanking others or appreciating others. Now it may be just those people that I saw, but I see more of this behavior a lot back in the US. And to be fair, it's not all Americans or Westerners. Humbleness: Maybe it's a lot different in Canada and the UK, but in America, I do think more people here are more boastful. People here are taught to be confident, boast about accomplishments, and talk about themselves. I do think humbleness here is often thrown out the window. While being confident by itself is not bad at all (I personally think it's a good thing), being boastful and talking about yourself often can be seen as anti-humble. With that said, I do find the older people get, the more humble and more respect they'll give to others. For example, I've rarely met an American over 50 that's not respectful and nice. Criticism: Yeah... if a candidate cries, you just wipe it off with your arm or clothes. In Asia, you need to have tough skin to survive. As for judges being mean, sure, it's shown in shows like "American Idol" since the audience loves to see Simon go off. Music reality shows gets high ratings when harsh criticism is dished out. Yet, with normal people, I find that a lot of Americans can't take harsh-constructive criticism. It's better to beat-around-the-bush or nicely hint at what's wrong. I'm fortunate to have grown up in the US, since being blunt here wouldn't fly well here. However, in Korea (and much of Asia), bluntness is the rule. For example, if someone is fat, they'll just say "you're fat and you need to lose weight" to your face. Yet, in America and in the West, this is a big no-no since it's rude. How this relates to K-pop is that producers and CEOs can and will be blunt and dish out criticism towards their idols. Their thinking is that beating around the bush is a waste of time and they'd rather get straight to the point. I'll say that JYP is one of the nicer CEOs / founders in K-pop, as he knows both Korean and American cultures. Because of this, he knows when to criticize harshly (Korean) and when to pull back (American). Creative control in K-pop: I agree with your take. A lot of pop singers have their songs written by others for much of their career. I think writing your own songs is more common in the rock and hip-hop world after the singers have a few years in the industry. Creative control new artists have in the A/W music industry: I would respectfully disagree. While in A/W, individual personality is highly valued and is great image branding, in Asia, I do think it's quite different. Korean culture is all about group culture. There's a saying in Korean called "uri-nara" (우리나라), which means "our country." In other words, Koreans should look out for their country, and by extension, the group first. This follows into K-pop, where it's about the group first, then the individual. If an idol tries to go against the group or just do things for themselves, they'll be shunned. This is not to say that individuals can't have their own star power or promote themselves. It's just that they should always be about the team first. So the individual personality may work in A/W with the A2K girls, it may not be the same in Korea. ---- Thank you so much again for your comments. I'm truly humbled again by your words and you subscribing :) Despite my critiques towards A2K, I do wish the group does well. Welcome to Popsori!
@@Popsori Wow, thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions, and so thoroughly as well! I'm sorry about the delay in responding. I know the most recent A2K episode has been shown, but I have not seen it yet! I'm certain you have much better insight into comparing cultures than I do as I have not had the pleasure of visiting Asia (yet). Absolutely, North American culture is more relaxed than any other culture I can think of. 1. It is probably partly due to the English language which is the exception among European languages for not having an informal and formal mode of address eg. English: you. French: tu/vous. German: Du/Sie. Spanish: tu/usted. Dutch: jij/u. Bulgarian: ti/Vie. For the French-speaking culture in Quebec, I have been told that they are considerably more informal than what would be acceptable in France. Introducing English-speaking kids to other European languages, explaining formal and informal is always interesting. The nine levels of politeness sound like they would take some getting used to for westerners! 2. Besides the informal language, another major reason why North America is more relaxed than Great Britain is because Great Britain has always been a very class-structured society in which great deference is paid to nobility, my lord. Upward mobility was only rarely possible before the 20th century (and only for men, although women were sometimes able to marry into a higher social class). Probably one could make an argument that even today, it may be possible to rise from humble beginnings, and attend Oxford, have a successful and prestigious career, marry into the upper class - but one will never be truly accepted by the upper class “He’s not one of us, my dear.” I think it would be similar for students of working class backgrounds who attend Harvard with the US East Coast elite. (What really pleasantly surprised me about the late Queen Elizabeth is that her most trusted lady-in-waiting was the daughter of a dock worker from Liverpool!) The grand vision of America's founding fathers was a country of freedom; a place for (white mostly) men to escape the class-structured societies of Europe. In America, it didn't matter who your father was or if you didn't know who your father was (this was still a stigma even in western Europe till the 1970-80s!). If you were born poor in the US, you could have a great work ethic and entrepreneurial skills and make something of yourself. This is something very much lost on the current, and several generations of recent Americans, because (western) Europe has become a lot more similar after World War II (and eastern Europe starting in 1990s). I wonder how much influence pop-culture is having on the kids in California whom you mentioned. If you are talking about kids of Korean immigrant parents, I have heard the same complaints from parents who are immigrants from India and China. The kids want to fit in with the predominant culture and often don't want to speak their parents' language or eat their culture's food especially when they're with North American kids. The kids from Indian parents or grandparents tend to gravitate to hip-hop culture including the clothes and speech. Any Indian kids who are recent immigrants themselves, as opposed to those born in the west, are treated like dorks. It's the opposite with the Chinese. Many newly-arrived Chinese kids look down on the western-born as not being genuine/pure (?) enough. Any western-born Chinese kid who doesn't speak the language is written off by them as being the same as a white kid. Humble: I agree that boasting and talking about oneself is anti-humble! Regarding giving criticism, I was taught 20 years ago the concept of the "crap sandwich." This means the supervisor tells you what you're doing wrong, then remarks on something that you've done well, then finishes it off with the things you need to improve on. It was seen as a big step forward from the straight dishing out of crap! I fear that participation trophy culture has made the youngest generation emotionally weaker than they need to be. (I don’t know how far spread it is in non-English-speaking Europe.) Without having to put in any effort, they get the same reward everybody else gets. I agree it may make them feel better momentarily (? unless they realize how patronizing it is), but in the long run, it's a terrible strategy. It's also a disincentive to the top performers. The team player concept is very much pushed in western team sports, but if people don't participate in that, they might find it strange to put the team above themselves. Now that I think about it, when A/W kids dream of being music stars, they almost certainly dream of individual stardom (unless they want to be part of an orchestra). The introduction of K-pop into the western mainstream has obviously intrigued and captivated kids of all cultures and backgrounds. Because they admire it, and because these particular girls want to succeed in K-pop, I think they are eager to be team players, and that is the attitude they need to start with. Living in a foreign culture, for some of these girls for the first time - being immersed in a culture very different from home makes it much easier to get used to the local customs and concepts. Having been in a non-English European culture, one quickly gets used to the standards and wouldn't dream of addressing a teacher informally, for example. Once as an adult, I was addressed informally by a stranger who sounded like a native speaker, and I remember feeling quite affronted for a sec - then I almost burst out laughing about my reaction! Thank you very much for taking so much time to answer my questions! I have seen a lot of interesting video titles from your channel so I'll be looking into those! Best wishes! 😎🙏🌸
XG is a pretty successful group. Japanese idols Trained in korea, who sing mostly rnb style music in English. They hit a lot of targets to the public and are pretty popular in japan, Korea and American
XG is doing well so far(I'm a fan) but they're definitely not that popular in Korea. They have a small Korean fanbase at the moment but they also get a lot of hate as well. As for Japan, they definitely have a fanbase but they're not at the top just yet. I do think they'll continue to get successful since they're such a unique group.
Yeah, I can attest to XG not being popular in Korea. I think because of Japan-Korea history, it may be hard to accept an all-Japanese global group (as opposed to a group with some Japanese members, like Twice). I talked to friends in Japan and they told me that XG is quite popular, so I'm hoping they can continue to grow the Alphaz fandom in the West and Japan.
I think a2k will succeed They have gathered a good amount of fans throughout the show. The girls are also very likable at first glance like you could tell they choose soft-looking girls on purpose. Even if they don't hit it big they will still gain some success looking at how much attention they're getting on Twitter and TikTok,, really curious at the reception. would be
I am from America, and Motown was founded by Berry Gordy. Motown provided training for their artists in singing, dancing, costumes, and choreography. Our system was different from the training programs in South Korea and Japan, but there was a similar training program at Motown. In the 80s and 90s, we had more boys' and girls' groups than the Backstreet Boys. What I admire about K-pop groups is their dedication and commitment to their fans. Some of our solo artists and singing groups in America also have strong connections with their fan base, but it's different in many ways. What could work is a Korean American group who can speak Korean and English. I've noticed that K-groups are using American and European producers and songwriters for their songs. I also noticed that hip-hop and R&B influences are woven into some K-group songs and dance moves too. Black culture has historically pioneered music, dance, and fashion. The last thing is in America it's rarely a singing group that stays together.
I dont think this will be a huge success. I like the A2K girls so far but America doesn't care about groups and they will have to focus on American Kpop audience. I think the skills difference will show and they are literally only training for 3 months before debuting. If they want foreign kpop idols to succeed, they should just open up to non-Asians and accept them as a regular trainee. A regular kpop group with white, black, latin members would be way better imo.
I hoping if the A2K group is debuting in late 2024 that JYPE marketing dept. hypes them up until their debut. It's great that they're getting ample training and time to adjust to the K-pop industry. Yet, I'm also afraid that if there's not enough marketing between now and their debut, the A2K girls will be forgotten. The boys from LOUD is the best example, as they haven't been heard from since October 2021 (check their Instagram or Twitter).
I agree with this video and your comment. In my opinion I don't think this concept will be successful in the long run. K-pop groups have a unique look and sound crafted through years of training that make them popular in Korea and Asia, which is their core audience. There's also the cultural background with factors such as humility and the Asian work ethic where trainees undergo strict training and will train for 14-16 hours without complaining and the group is prioritized above the individual whereas Western cultures value independence and individuality. I live in the US and like K-pop because it's different from mainstream American music. There are plenty of big name American talents in the U.S. so I don't think A2K can compete with them and they don't fit in with the current K-pop groups
They can, if the produce team do their best job and the finalists have that star qualities. Hope they will be famous like Little Mix, XG and One Direction❤.
...in order for this to work, JYP will have to make them more than a group. These girls will need to become a brand in order to attract American audiences. JYP should recreate a Dream High type show to introduce the girls to the American public. Their songs will also need to be extremely catchy and unique in order to capture American audiences. The songs also need to be age appropriate since Americans are very angry about minors in entertainment rn. I would also suggest JYP take some notes from YG's marketing department and get them some collabs with F21, Target, Claire's, etc. so the girls can get more visibility to a wider audience.
I think the mainstream in the US doesn't like cutesy things or girly concepts and it's mostly just seen for children that's why BP could be even more popular but YG hates women lmao. But i do see them making songs that are kid friendly like Jojo Siwa used to do or sumn like that.
Im a Shawol !!! Shinee’s fan and Im going to support these girls. I have not missed an episode! It’s good that Korean entertainment can have a balance now that our girls going there!!
A2K won't be an American Kpop Group just as NiziU isn't a Japanese Kpop Group or Boy Story isn't a Chinese Kpop Group. JYPE's plan is Globalisation by Localization which is part of JYP 2.0 announced in 2018 where they will be creating talent in other countries to promote in them so Boy Story for China (and Project C), NiziU (and NiziU's Brother Group) for Japan and A2K for America. JYPE has registered E2K and L2K, speculation that it's Europe2Korea and Latin2Korea. So based on their previous groups, South Korea and Koreans will be less relevant for a target audience as A2K won't be promoting much in SK but will be facing the American Market however Kpop fans, especially International Fans will definitely be a demographic that will be targetted. But the weakness is that Kpop Groups that sing in Japanese get a fraction of the MV views for thier Japanese MVs that they do for their Korean MVs as Kpop fans all around the world are more interested in Kpop
Sure, I can agree with your analogy that A2K won't be a straight American K-pop group. Rather, they'll be an American group backed by K-pop training, musical sound, and branding (JYP). In other words, the A2K group will be looked at like NiziU, who's recognized as a J-pop group that sings in Japanese, but known to fans as K-pop trained and influenced in all things music. A more accurate description for the A2K group would be "American group trained in the K-pop ways" or "American group with K-pop training." I do want to see how JYP 2.0's globalization plans turns out in the upcoming years. If JYPE registered E2K and L2K, as you say, it's going to get interesting fast to see a European and Latin American K-pop trained group. While yes, South Korea and Koreans are less emphasized with these int'l groups, it never hurts to have the motherland of K-pop drawing interest, as it provides another market to sell and tour. With K-pop groups singing Japanese, I do think it's largely there to appeal to Japanese fans, which as we both know, are have some of the most passionate and profitable fanbase within K-pop. However, I do agree that more people around the world are interested in K-pop than J-pop these days.
@@Popsori From a marketing point of view I think it would be better if A2K gets Asian promotions in Japan rather that South Korea, the japanese market is more attractive for a group like them (I remember Little Mix doing well in Japan) and then expanding to other Asian countries (Philippines, Indonesia, Singapour, Malasya, Taiwan, Thailand, etc). But I might be biased due to the fact that I gave up about having hopes of koreans liking anything related to jype again, like they really hate the company and their groups 😅
I have to compliment you on your report, but I think most of your concerns are not as problematic today as they were 5 years ago when there was little interest in Kpop in the U.S. Today a number of Kpop groups are selling out stadiums and coliseums all across North America. One of the biggest reasons is that Popular North American Music has become boring. The reason the average singers in the U.S. are getting older is that there is little to nothing new happening. The whole scene is boring. Fans and music lovers are having to look elsewhere if they what something new and fresh. Pop Music in the U.S. is giving way to county music and the Kpop scene. Kpop is always coming up with new, fresh, and original acts like New Jeans, Black Pink, Itzy, Twice, and G-Idle. They are fresh, original, and exciting. There is nothing boring about these groups. Kpop may have it's faults, but it is an industry that is vibrant enough to generate this kind of creativity. If JYP is smart and He has proven over and over again that he is. He could be the one to pull it off. Sure there are a lot of reason to be skeptical but that's the fun of it. It's in overcoming the obstacles, that success is made sweet. Rose` of Black Pink said, "We come from two different worlds, but Music makes us one".
One thing you failed to mention - many Americans are disappointed with the state of American pop. Kpop is being viewed by the execs as something that can help revive the American pop scene. And I also think that America didn't give up on the big vocal groups of the 90's - there's a growing nostalgia for those days. The individualism that gets cultivated through the current crop of talent shows such as American Idol and The Voice seems to suggest to audiences that entertainment can only be solo endeavors. Something like A2K will be new and exciting for American audiences.
1:12 Oh Yeah I had the feeling he (JYP) gave every Contestant that was shown to us the same feedback, but different. His feedback was: “You’re not great, but I believe in you, so you’re in” I had the feeling he said that to every contestant but different 😅
You simply MUST MUST add XG from XGALX/Avex to this conversation because they are absolutely killing it in America, Japan and Korea with all Japanese members, Korean system of training and promotion and shows, with all songs in English with a super strong Hip/Hop/R&B xcross KPop sound!
100% true on the K-indie part! I first started in the Korean indie and hip-hop as a journalist in Seoul. Seeing the amount of college students and young adults transitioning from K-pop to indie / hip-hop was eye-opening.
It’s going to be interesting seeing them and dream academy compete (especially bc they seem much higher tier) buttt these girls are all supposed to be pre trainee I’m sure all those dream girls have been training for a while
For sure. I want to see a Western / Global group appeal to Americans, but I have to admit, it's going to be tough. There's so many barriers to come down for Americans to embrace K-pop or K-pop influenced groups (i.e. the A2K and Dream Academy groups).
Just imagine they have a lot of trainess at jyp. But there's no promise that every one will debut. As we all know there are trainess waited for years to debut. Some just gave up and leave.
0:46 Oh Yeah, we also had “Easy On Me” a lot, I personally don’t reaaally like That song, so after two times I skipped it and then in the End in the LA Boot Camp, I was like “hey, who is she? (Mischa) I don’t know her, Oh and who is she (Christina)?” I did not know some of them, cuz I skipped 😅
I appreciate your comment. I'm hopeful that Western / American K-pop groups will be successful, but myself (and others) have some major concerns, as seen in this video. A lot of commenters here have a different take though, as about 75% of them are optimistic the group will do well once they debut. I guess some fans don't like it that others point out the major difficulties in bringing K-pop - an American group, no less - to America and expecting the average, casual music listener to suddenly embrace K-pop. I respect their opinion, as it's great to hear differing opinions. But I think a lot of Western / American commenters aren't taking into account Korean culture and the K-pop fandom in supporting a Western K-pop group. They solely look at the talent and the charisma of the A2K girls and automatically think they'll succeed. Let's hope they do.
Why label a western group "k-pop" if by definition k-pop is korean? Why not just produce them as a western pop group with k-pop training and standards ? Culturally westerner wouldn't act as korean, so maybe aegyo, bowing, and strict rules won't be appropriate for foreigners. We have to accept that westerners will never be exactly as koreans. A2K had a lot of good talents hope they take this into consideration and market them differently and reflect this in their music.
I thought about the definition of K-pop too. I used to think the "K" in K-pop (Korean) means a group should have all Korean members. Yet, if we used that definition above, then many groups that have Asian members, but not Korean ones, would not be Korean. For instance, would you consider miss A and f(x) not Korean since both groups had Chinese members in them? Would you consider Kep1er a non-K-pop group since they have non-Koreans in them. I think with those examples, fans would still consider them K-pop. I would too. The new definition I have of "K-pop" is if a group sings in Korean, learns Korean, its culture, and uses the K-pop training system and sound. By using this definition, then groups such as Blackswan, who don't have any Korean members but immersed themselves in Korean, are still considered K-pop, despite their ethnicity. A more tricky example is XG, who doesn't sing in Korean (all in English), yet checks all the other boxes (i.e. learns Korean, its culture, uses the K-pop training system, has a Korean manager, etc.), so I would still consider them K-pop. Going past the definition of the "K" in K-pop, you asked why produce a Western group with K-pop standards and training. I'm sure A2K and Dream Academy are intending to do just that. Yet fans, right or wrong, will still lump them as a K-pop trained and influenced group. An American / global based group will still be fighting for K-pop fans for support, since it may be much harder for the average, casual American to warm up to K-pop.
@@Popsori Of course i agree all these groups are k-pop despite their ethnicity. I am more questionning the need to sing in Korean and learn the culture when these groups are mostly aspiring to be good performers. Of course the influence of kpop and the style of kpop is really distinctive but maybe you could have this standard of performance and visuals in other languages ? I get that it's also a tool for Korea to get foreigners interested in their culture and you cannot separate this agenda from kpop. You could say a lot of foreign artist learn English and sing in English to enter the American market. So maybe it's just because it's new and challenging the views of the world we have ? We are so used to artists singing in English to make it global, it can be bothering to see artists learn another language or culture to do so now ?
@Michyeon Ahhh gotcha. I see what you mean now. I think with K-pop groups, whether traditional or the more US/global ones being created now, fans associate K-pop with well... singing Korean. Now, there's a lot of leeway with this, as NewJeans has probably 30-40% of their lyrics in English in their songs. XG, of course, has 100% English. And other groups have around 5-10% of English in them. I think with XG, especially, fans still see them as K-pop despite going all in in English, since they're based in Korea and learning its language and culture. So when groups like A2K and the Dream Academy girls may strive to be performers first, a lot of K-pop fans may then ask, "well, if they won't sing in Korean, why don't they just apply at an American music label then?" I know that's unfair to ask that, as America has no real idol culture these days and traditionally harder for Asian-Americans to break in, but I think that's what many fans will think regardless. I think with English being the global language, it may be easier for K-pop groups to just learn English (like you mentioned). But I would personally love it if English-speaking groups attempted to learn Korean if they use the K-pop training system. I'm not asking them to be fluent, as Korean is a hard language to learn, but have a 70/30 split of English to Korean. Or a English-Korean line split like NewJeans.
HYBE and JYP seem to have two different thoughts about this. Bang PD said in a recent interview they have to be willing to get rid of the "K" to reach even bigger global audiences (but of course it will still reflect back on S. Korea, I assume). Meanwhile JYP is pushing "American K-pop" with the idea that it's like an Italian restaurant that doesn't need to employ all Italian staff to be recognizable.
Ive spoken a little bit about this on my channel... Age is a small issue but the concepts, mannerism, cultural differences and style will have to be altered to fit both cultures. In America when it comes to ladies, we like older more mature around 18-34 with sexy, confident, outspoken and bold. Starting out, a group can do something fun like Fifth Harmony's Miss Movin On or Little Mix's Wings but eventually we want to see growth into Beyonce, Danity Kane, or Post-Glory Days Little Mix. I don't the Korean audience would be receptive to that level of maturity (I've heard and read about the level of censorship) Honorifics will be an issue for Korean but how will that fly for Americans, UK, & Australians? Western Culture we are very loose, relaxed, chill, and very very informal in our language and mannerism. there are so many different factors that will need to addressed but I'm rooting for the girls as we're invested now. Asan artist, this is definitely inspired me to train heavy and do my own artist development. I hope American label take notes
I love that you mentioned 'Miss Movin On' and 'Wings' and the whole Little Mix music before Glory Days (amazing btw). People tend to forget that these girlgroups were not always sexy/mature/badass and they had a more "teenage" vibe at first
Dream Academy before EP01: Adela, (19) Slovakia Brooklyn, (17) USA Celeste, (19) Argentina Daniela, (19) USA Emily, (17) USA Ezrela, (20) Australia Hinari, (14) Japan Iliya, (21) Belarus Karlee, (19) USA Lara, (17) USA Lexi, (19) Sweden Manon, (21) Switzerland Marquise, (17) Thailand Megan, (17) USA Mei, (17) Japan Nayoung, (21) South Korea Samara, (17) Brazil Sophia, (20) Philippines Ua, (15) Japan Yoonchae, (15) South Korea
I'm surprised they have a few 20+ year-olds as applicants. At the same time, I do like how older applicants are getting a shot (as opposed to just teens). From this list, it looks like the age range for applicants are from 14-21.
I'm not a specialist of Kpop but I also feel like lots of Kpop fans in the world as myself living in France. Lots were starting to like less and less american singers and culture and starting to embrass South korean culture, the kpop system and the asians face also. We can't deny. America is a huge influence in culture in lots of countries in the world so lots of young and older people wanted to appreciate something else. As America is always so present in our life. In France for example, America as a figure of the country of people showing off to much and being not elegant. Also we really like japanese culture with manga anime and movies from years ago so South korean's pop music and entertainment appealed to French people. That's my analyse from an amateur of Kpop since 2007 haha (sorry for my english). Also my opinion on A2K : I think contestants who look like too much of american girls / cali girls won't be appreciated as much as I say. Lots of people love Kpop because it is different to american music and image. For example KG (the blond contestant) is the image of USA.
I think doing a show like they’ve done will help, give people time to hear about them, get to know the potential members and get to like them. I’d imagine it could at least draw a few more eyes to the debut. I don’t think they’ll be anything close to Twice levels, and while I like the girls I’m still not sold on if it’ll actually work. We’ll see
It's a realtively new concept that's why we have the feeling it's not working, but like everything in life, it takes time. The labels starting it today are gonna be the ones paving the way in 10 years. Just like the first kpop group who arrised in the early 90s paved the way for groups like BTS and others to shine on top of the world today. So ig we must be patient. It's taking its time now and might not find success immediately, but it will ultimately since people are fed up with the generic kpop group made of koreans native speakers (or aussie/Japanese). So like everything that's new, people like it. The main question is to know if it's not gonna harm Kpop's identity bc having international groups mean it's not kpop anymore? My answer would be that as long as they are managed by korean labels of Kpop who supervise other kpop groups, I don't see a problem and think it can be considered like Kpop
Well, this clip is very interesting point of view from Americans(?) and I do agree with most of narration. In western world after your twinkle twinkle genre, pre-teens don't really have much choice of listening to music before they step into adulthood and starts to talk about money, sex, drugs, foul language, etc, especially like in R&B. I think K-pop mostly sings about love, friendships, rebellious, pains as they grow up, etc. Well America has kids Disney channel, but.... I think K-pop targets pre-adult which allows to maintain kids naive purity before steps into an adulthood as like becoming a butterfly AND majority of Kpop music, melodies are imported from Sweden, perhaps that's why when you hear Kpop for the first time, rhythms can be somewhat familiar. Also another important factor is very eye catching highly production of M/V and choreography. Kpop fans experiences part of being their idol by participating dance moves or cover dances unlike waving your hand or clap while watching Taylor Swift or other R&B rappers music video. Kpop is indeed new genre not only for Americans but massive supporting global auditions where fans want their voices be heard with new genre whether you are ready or not.
As a Korean, I don't think this group is a K-pop group. This is just an American pop group using a K-pop system. And if promote this group as a K-pop group, it will only backfire. I think this group will appeal more to Western fans if it is promoted as an American pop group influenced by K-pop.
0:39 Yes, sooo many, as you say 90% danced “DALLA DALLA”, after 3 performances of “DALLA DALLA” I skipped it, cuz I got bored of it, really bored, I love DALLA DALLA as a song and I kinda get why nearly all contestants picked it, but couldn’t some of them picked “Not Shy” or another dance by Itzy that is not DALLA DALLA 😅
Agreed with everything except one point. With the staggering rise of Japanese culture in America that has *kawaii* in similarity to aegyo... I'm not seeing how you think that will need to stop in order to do well. Also, since its so prominent in k-pop in general, I think a group that makes it a point to entirely stray from aegyo would be weird seeing as even adult idol still do aegyo even if its less freequent.
I AM AMERICAN, THIS GIRLS WILL BE GREAT IN USA AND INTERNATIONAL, GIVEN THEY CUT THE RAP CRAP AND HAVE GREAT WRITTEN AND ARRANGED POP SONGS. DIDDYBOPER ♥️💝💖💕😇😘 🙏
This might be your best video. All of my concerns you addressed! This is weird, but one of my favorite things about Kpop is I DON'T understand the lyrics (I always shut off captions on MV's) I'm curious if other American Kpop fans are like me. You speak Korean, though, correct,
The best part of not knowing Korean and turning off the subtitles is that you can create your own lyrics :) I do understand Korean, yes, but sometimes I wish I didn't for some songs, since they have silly lyrics. If this is my best video, it looks like I should build on this then. I'll study this video and see if all my future videos can be bangers.
I agree with you! I'd rather not know what they're saying. It adds to the experience of enjoying music from another country. Also, there is Western music I have really loved until I read/understood the lyrics and that ruined it for me. Shania Twain "Any man of mine" and "I'm gonna getcha"; Shaggy "It wasn't me". 😖 In both of Shania's songs, she is objectifying men in a bad way. In the first one, she lists all the rules he has to follow, but she can do whatever she wants and he had better like it. In the second one, she's basically announcing her intention of purchasing/owning a man like she would purchase/own real estate. This is concerning because this is exactly how sociopaths look at other humans - as objects. They have no emotions and no conscience which is not their fault because they were born like that but they look at desirable mates as someone they can prey on (they are golddiggers, but there are probably golddiggers who do have a conscience). Once they have identified their target, they can go to extraordinary lengths to start a relationship. For example, one lady moved to a different city and began training for a career she was not interested in because that was the way she could get close to the man she was targeting. She completed her training and convinced him to hire her. She got him. Another one used up almost all of her savings to go on a very expensive vacation because she knew that her target was going to be there. She got him and had him for a while but he escaped. Sociopaths isolate their partner from their family and friends, emotionally abuse them (at a minimum) and take over their lives. If you have never experienced this personally or among your family and friends, you're very lucky. It is terrifying when it happens to somebody you care about. REMEMBER THIS: If she or he seems too good to be true, there's something wrong. If he or she shares every single one of your interests and loves exactly all the same things you love, there's something wrong. As for the Shaggy song, he's cheating on his girlfriend, and at least one witness saw him cheating with her all over the house, and he just keeps denying it. "It wasn't me." It's very disrespectful to women (to both his girlfriend and the woman he was cheating with. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt as she may not have known that he had a girlfriend and he's also being disrespectful to her regardless) and he thinks it's cool to not only cheat but to lie about it in the face of eyewitness testimony. But the music is good. I've tried to find instrumental versions, but no luck so far. Thanks for reading! 🙏😄🌺
So deep with the lyrics :) From your examples, I do think Americans just listening to a banging song without knowing its meaning isn't enough. They want to understand Korean song's lyrics and will look up the English translations of what the K-pop lyrics mean.
have to dissagree with a lots of your points: 8:38 that not true at all, the us industry have for decades plenty of succesful singers who debuted at the same age as a2k: taylor swift chris brown for exemple found huge succes in the us when they debuted at 15 years old. and multiple boybands like jackson 5 new kids on the block new editon etc started at the same age range and nobody questioned their age.the fans who worry ussally don't know the history of us music and how ageist they are. 10:24 the argument about being "too westernized" is kinda stupid since kpop is always being a byproduct from many cultures, including western cultures.and the western culture kpop borrow from (hip hop) is influenced by asian culture snce his inception. and having an american kpop will not having a hurdle of the interest of korean culture in fact it will enhance.since a2k will be associated with stray kids wice more than bieber or ariana grande the new fans they will attract will also check these groups since a2k is directly influenced by these groups. 11:05 first of all you seems to forget the changing landscape of medias .nowdays there is no monoculture like 20 30 years ago so the notion of being "mainstream" is pointless with the rise of streaming (both movies music) who divide folks more than.righ know having a big hit doesnt have the same weight as 20 30 years ago when only mtv was the presciptor of "cool".the lack of monoculture is also why kpop blew up since american medias no longer dictate what is considered "cool"" also we should stop using this word "niche" for describing the popularity of kpop today.its not niche its a billion dollar industry and you can't be a niche and being a billlion dollar industry at the same time.and just because the average us folk can't reconie a kpop star doesn't mean they aren't succesful. take esport for exemple.same as kpop its a billion dolla industry with massive audience .more folks in us watched the final of lege of legends than the nba yet the average joe doesn't know who faker is but know michael ordan even they have no interrest in basket.doesnt mean esport is a niche. 11:50 the decline of western groups in the west have nothing to do with the audience but more with the us music industry being in decline in revenues.creating a group cost a lots of money and with the cd sales declining revenues goes down as well so they cant develop artist in the west anymore. also the music landscape in us is changing.according to billboard hip hop sales are in decline and even popular rappers lke lil durk have cancelled their arena tour dues to low sales tickets.and some insiders said labels now deprioritise singing rappers and prefers sinigng others rising genres like kpop latin singer or afro beats. rnb is commericialy dead for over a decade and rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades now. i dont know what you talking about about mvs cause the west stopped investing in mvs a while ago.even western pop agree kpop mvs are at another level.and folks in us still love dance choreography.michael jackson is still see as the benchmark performance wise and beyonce bruno mars was always being compared to hm even tho they arent at his level or kpop level. 16:53 only in some circle writing your own song is valued like hip hop or rock even tho its all hypocrisy since ghoswriting is huge in hip hop but very taboo to talk.most pop stars hire songwriters and nobody cares whitney houston didint write her songs. 24:50 but american pop have borrowed from many culture to created new genre . hip hop,and numerous genres , who will not exist as today without the 808 created in japan and popularised by yellow magic orchestra. i can go even deeper in hip hop with the influence of bruce lee and shaw brothers on the culture but its another topic. also 60% of netflix uses watched k drama a least once and k dramas are massively popular in the west.folks in usa have no problem watching subs a long as they find the story good. and kpop have also a massive audience in the west its the us white gatekeepers who don't want foreign singer being popular cause its threatening the dominance in us music.
All good in disagreeing. That's where some of the best K-pop discussion comes in. I do remember you from awhile back in posting on another video. Onto your comments. 8:38 - Sure, there's been stars younger than 18 that have been successful. The examples you listed like the Jackson 5 and New Kids on the Block and Taylor Swift are a few. Yet, with the dangerous age range, I was more referring to young teenage females. Nearly all Americans would prefer their female stars to be in the 18-34 year-old range. 10:24 - The "too Westernized" argument is from the hundreds of Americans fans I've talked to at concerts, cons, and K-pop stores just this year. To these fans, they don’t want too much Western influence to invade their K-pop. To them, they don’t listen to American music because they didn’t like certain aspects of mainstream, US music. You can also find this argument all over the internet, such as Reddit, Twitter, and TH-cam. 11:05 For mainstream, just because it’s searchable on live streaming, Google, and TH-cam, doesn’t mean people will search for that topic. Or even care. Most people in the US simply don’t care about K-pop, despite its growing popularity out here. Outside of K-pop communities in large cities, such as NY, LA, SF, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, etc. finding people that share K-pop interests are a lot harder. Contrast this to traditional sports, where it's easy to find a bar of sports fans. Catch a game on TV. Or just talking to a random person about the NFL or NBA team. As for your other point, I use the word “niche” more as a medium not breaking into mainstream America (or any other country), but can still make a lot of money. Using your own example, Faker is not known to nearly all Americans (whereas Michael Jordan is), but he's still hugely popular in his field (esports - League of Legends), around much of the world's gamers, and makes a ton of money. As huge as Faker is, he would still be considered "niche" to the average American, since they don't keep up with esports. There's a lot of industries where they generate millions or billions of dollars, but are still niche and are not known in a country's mainstream public. Two examples are tech and finance, where you may have used their products and services before, but you couldn't really name the company, nor their CEO. I’m also glad you brought up esports, since I worked in the industry for seven years in Korea. Yes, esports is popular and I would say mainstream among Gen Z and many Millennials, it's not universally known to the public. Also, esports is currently on a sharp decline, as investors are finding esports fans are nowhere near as profitable as traditional sports fans. A prime example of this is Overwatch League, which was trying to be the video game equivalent of the NFL or NBA, but crashed hard. With that said, there is still some interest in esports, but it’s largely in the legacy games that came out 10+ years ago, like League of Legends, DoTA 2, Counterstrike, etc. Valorant is one of the few, newer games that have big appeal. But rather than esports itself, more fans are flocking towards supporting content creators on TH-cam and Twitch, who happen to also be esports players. The esports scene, from a tournament and competitive league standpoint, is currently on shaky ground. As for K-pop, while it’s taken big steps in establishing their presence in the US, the genre is still largely known just among US / Western K-pop fans. Most Americans may have heard of BTS and Blackpink before, other groups, not so much. I’ve talked and interviewed hundreds of fans at K-pop concerts, K-pop stores, events, etc. just this year and they tell me that their families and non-K-pop friends a novelty. These people don’t hate or dislike K-pop, but they’re not interested in exploring idol pop. 11:50 Even with a decline in revenue, the top music genres in the US are still hip-hop / R&B (#1), rock (#2), and pop (#3). Latin music is up there too. I wouldn’t say “rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades” when it’s still the 2nd most popular genre still. There's a lot of rock (and heavy metal, if you include it in this genre) groups that play around the country in smaller to mid-sized venues. If you add up all those indie rock bands, as well as the throngs of rock fans across the US, I see why rock America's #2 genre. There’s also a huge rock event called Aftershock that always sells out, showing the big appeal of the rock genre in the US. With all that said, American music is still number 1 in the world in terms of revenue, while Korean music is #6, which is still impressive, but still far behind the US. 16:53 I agree with your take here. With hip-hop and rock, it’s more valued to write your own music after awhile. On the other hand, pop stars hire songwriters to write their music. 24:50 I do agree that American pop also borrowed from many cultures to create / redefine their own music. As for K-pop having a massive audience, I would say it’s only for the biggest groups that draw fans. I’ve been to a lot of K-pop concerts where the attendance is only 60% with a slew of empty seats. As for Netflix, while I do think that K-dramas and K-movies are slowly breaking down the subtitle stigma, it’s still there in the US. As stated in the video, 54% of Americans are turned off by subtitles, preferring English dubs. This was evident in the drama Squid Game, where a lot of Americans used English dubs. In addition, some K-dramas are starting to have English dubs in them. I agree that there may be some gatekeepers in the US that want to keep foreign music being more popular. Some may not like that, say, K-pop is in a foreign language and culture they don’t understand. EDIT: Some grammar and flow fixes.
@@Popsori ""cessful. The examples you listed like the Jackson 5 and New Kids on the Block and Taylor Swift are a few. Yet, with the dangerous age range, I was more referring to young teenage females. Nearly all Americans would prefer their female stars to be in the 18-34 year-old range.""" what's the difference? cuz boybands female singers have the same demographic:young teenage girls. """"too Westernized" argument is from the hundreds of Americans fans I've talked to at concerts, cons, and K-pop stores just this year. To these fans, they don’t want too much Western influence to invade their K-pop. To them, they don’t listen to American music because they didn’t like certain aspects of mainstream, US music. You can also find this argument all over the internet, such as Reddit, Twitter, and YouTu""" just because an opinion is popular doesnt mean its the gospel.its still a ridiculous argument regarless. """"Using your own example, Faker is not known to nearly all Americans (whereas Michael Jordan is), but he's still hugely popular in his field (esports - League of Legends), around much of the world's gamers, and makes a ton of money. As huge as Faker is, he would still be considered "niche" to the average American, since they don't keep up with esports."""" but your exemple fail to take a consideration of one crucial point of my argumentation: the fragmentation of media.back then (i mean in the 80s until early 2000s) they was more a shared culture:you knew some celebrities even yo're not interessed in their domain.back then everyone knew who michael jordan was evenif you weren't into basket.nowdays if you're not into basket you don't know who lebron james is.does that mean basket ball is a niche cuz my grandma don't know who lebron james is? no its still a billion dollar industry so still popular. same thing in musc.im from the mtv era and back then everyone knew who michael jackson madonna u2 bon jovi backstree boys britneyetc.... even if you didnt like their music cause before they was no youtube no social media jus mtv who was the coolest thing for the youth. a "niche" would be something like jazz who reach a very small audience.kpop in the west, is no where near jazz statut popularity wise so using the world niche is very innappropriaated. """I wouldn’t say “rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades” when it’s still the 2nd most popular genre still. There's a lot of rock (and heavy metal, if you include it in this genre) groups that play around the country in smaller to mid-sized venues. If you add up all those indie rock bands, as well as the throngs of rock fans across the US, I see why rock America's #2 genre."" no you're wrong on this one.yes its a fack rock is no longer popular.by popular .its not just me who said that bur rock fans and critics themselfes who reconise rock isn't popping anymore.they are many reason for why its happened but its a differnet subject.. the reason why rock is number 2 genre isn't because of new artist but its cataog sales.rock fans listen more old rock band than the new one and since its become a nostalgia fest the genre stopped being trendy. same thing going right now with hip hop and pop music so a2k dream academy or even kpop group in general have a huge road for them to conquer. """As for Netflix, while I do think that K-dramas and K-movies are slowly breaking down the subtitle stigma, it’s still there in the US. As stated in the video, 54% of Americans are turned off by subtitles, preferring English dubs. This was evident in the drama Squid Game, where a lot of Americans used English dubs. In addition, some K-dramas are starting to have English dubs in them."" tv show is a different medium than music.music doesnt have the language barrier tv show have for obvious reason.we saw kpop songs goin viral in us like new jeans omg and the song was full korean lyrics.
Looks like we're back for round 2! Here's my responses: "what's the difference? cuz boybands female singers have the same demographic:young teenage girls." The difference is that for many older fans (18+ years old), they will be a lot more comfortable looking at a female adult singing than a kid, unless that group is from a Disney group and geared towards children. Even with teenage stars like Britney and Christina (Aguilera), older fans were more comfortable singing their songs and watching their MVs, since well... they're adults. "just because an opinion is popular doesnt mean its the gospel.its still a ridiculous argument regarless." I would disagree. If millions of K-pop fans say their favorite group is BTS/Blackpink/Twice, it does mean something. It means that there's a ton of demand for that group and they're incredibly popular. Or in my case asking several hundred fans who they like, it also means something. It means that there's a pattern of whom K-pop fans like and yes, there's demand. Having a favorite K-pop group is subjective and like you said, "it's not gospel." Yet, it doesn't escape the fact that when many people like a group, it's a fact that they're popular and businesses will try and meet that demand (via concerts, more merch, more songs, etc.). """"Using your own example, Faker is not known to nearly all Americans (whereas Michael Jordan is), but he's still hugely popular in his field (esports - League of Legends), around much of the world's gamers, and makes a ton of money. As huge as Faker is, he would still be considered "niche" to the average American, since they don't keep up with esports."""" I think you're not understanding my definition of what "niche" is. To me, niche means mainstream (like at least 70% of people of all ages) know who a person or company is. If a niche makes a million or billion dollars, that's great too, but not necessary. To you, you're arguing that if something -- like esports -- makes a billion dollars, it can't be niche because... well, it makes a billion dollars. I argue (using my definition) that there's a ton of industries, like fintech, tech, banking, etc., that are billion dollar industries, yet you and I don't know who the CEOs are or even the company. If I went out in the middle of a city's downtown and asked who random Fortune 500 fintech or tech company is (that's not Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc.), nearly no one would know. So yes, even if that company made a ton of money, it's still niche, since it's not known to mainstream (again 70% or more people of all ages). Yet, if I went into downtown LA or NY and asked who LeBron James, Beyonce, or Bruno Mars are, I bet 9 out of 10 people would be like "yeah, I know them." Those people are mainstream and not niche. """I wouldn’t say “rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades” when it’s still the 2nd most popular genre still. There's a lot of rock (and heavy metal, if you include it in this genre) groups that play around the country in smaller to mid-sized venues. If you add up all those indie rock bands, as well as the throngs of rock fans across the US, I see why rock America's #2 genre."" Okay, so do you have a published source on rock not being the #2 genre or outside of the top 3 genres in the US? My sources are Billboard (in the video) and Aftershock, which I'll be covering as media and sold out at like $399 per ticket, showing there's still a lot of demand for rock. Let's say that your argument is true and that rock fans today still listen to the older rock musicians, like Guns n' Roses, Metallica, etc. That still counts to those group's sales, attendance, and more importantly, propels rock to the #2 most listened to in the US. If you have any sources that say rock is no longer in the top 3 of US music genres, I'm all ears. "same thing going right now with hip hop and pop music so a2k dream academy or even kpop group in general have a huge road for them to conquer." I do agree with you that Dream Academy and A2K have a huge road ahead of them to conquer. It's possible, but it will be difficult, for sure. """"As for Netflix, while I do think that K-dramas and K-movies are slowly breaking down the subtitle stigma, it’s still there in the US. As stated in the video, 54% of Americans are turned off by subtitles, preferring English dubs. This was evident in the drama Squid Game, where a lot of Americans used English dubs. In addition, some K-dramas are starting to have English dubs in them."" While movies is a different medium than music, there's still a lot of Americans that still have the same stigma about not understanding a song's lyrics. Also, picking NewJeans is not the best example to support your argument. I just looked up their newest song "ETA" and over 50% of their lyrics are in English. Heck, even the chorus "what's your ETA? What's your ETA? Mmm-hmm" is all in English, making it a lot easier for the casual, non-K-pop American listener to understand. Heck, even your example of "OMG" has around 35-40% English lyrics in it. Which brings me up to my new point: the casual, non-K-pop American listener will be drawn to songs that have a lot of English in it, like most of NewJeans' songs, XG, FIFTY FIFTY's "Cupid," or any English album release from K-pop stars. If K-pop labels just released full out Korean songs to the American public, most won't listen to it outside of K-pop fans. Understanding a song's lyrics is very important to Americans. EDIT: Just noticed that there's a few TH-cam comments here that back up what I say. These American commenters said they showed their co-workers or friends K-pop and they didn't care or were confused as to "why would someone listen to something they can't understand."
I thought A2K group will be based in the U.S. like NiziU in Japan. Of course they will be recording and training in Korea, but probably releasing the album from Republic Records. Most of the NiziU fans are non K-pop fans. Actually NiziU made K-pop popular in Japan. I’m wondering if the same thing will happen for A2K, and I‘m excited.
You were saying how Korean culture values humbleness. I just stumbled across this video (which I am enjoying very much!!), in which Mr. JY Park is singing to the younger generation about all of his accomplishments. "Still Alive" is the title, and it appears to be at least seven years old. How is Mr. Park's attitude perceived in Korean society? Is it ok because he really has achieved all of these things? He's obviously a marvelous entertainer! I don't mean to put you on the spot as it were. I don't mean this comment as a "gotcha." I really enjoyed the video and personally have absolutely no problem with Mr. Park exuding confidence especially as the songs I have seen from him are bursting with joy! I would like to know the reaction of Koreans, though, because it would help me to understand the culture better! 🙏😄💕
No problem at all! I'll be more than happy to answer your question 😀 I can't speak for all Koreans, as I'm actually not even Korean myself. I lived and worked in the K-pop industry in Seoul for 11 years, so I can speak from my experiences and what I've seen talking to friends, fans, managers, and sometimes, other CEOs from labels. From all this, JYP is quite respected in the K-pop industry in Korea. Even though being humble is a big virtue in Korean society, if elders do it, it's more acceptable, even if some may still think they're a braggart. If a person is a known celebrity that can back up their accomplishments, like JYP or the CEO of Samsung, then a lot more Koreans will accept it. Since JYP is also a bit older, there's this aspect of having to respect elders. So there's a bit of a pass in Korea for accomplished, elder people to brag a lot, especially to younger people that want to learn from that person. Now if it's just a normal person that brags a lot, that will get quickly get shunned in Korean society. To brag in Korean society, especially in the upper-middle to wealthy classes, you have to do it subtly. Something like: Person A: My family and I just came back from vacation in Busan. What did your family do during the summer. Person B (wealthy person): Oh, Busan sounds nice! I hope you had fun! We were originally going to go there too, but then I thought I wanted something more grand. At the last minute, we decided to go overseas to Hawaii, then LA to visit family, then New York to catch the opera house. Even though person B didn't directly put down person A's vacation choice, they flaunted their wealth by saying they just, on a whim, went on a much more expensive trip to the States. This "humble bragging" or "subtle bragging" is also seen a lot in the education scene, where parents will brag about their high school kid's accomplishments, test scores, and where they got accepted to university / college. If you've seen the drama "Sky Castle," you'll see a lot of subtle bragging a lot. I hope this answers your question and thank you so much for the kind words!
@@Popsori thank you, very, very much for your very thorough reply! You worked in the K-pop industry for 11 years? That’s amazing! You must know practically everything! It makes sense to me that very successful adults would be given quite a bit of leeway in terms of bragging, especially if he can prove what he says is accurate, and is a decent person in other respects. The humble bragging example is excellent! As a matter of fact, that is very much the kind of subtlety girls use on each other starting at approximately age 9 or 10. One girl can say to another, “Oh, I really like your hairstyle today” and the guys who are listening think it’s a compliment. The other girls know from a slight change of tone, and an overly sweet facial expression that the girl means, “You look dreadful/ridiculous. I noticed, and if is any of the other girls didn’t, everybody who is listening right now knows what I think.” It is a form of bullying, but it’s very difficult to get boys and men to understand these nuances. My mom’s boss used to say things like this to her in the elevator, but only when there were other businessmen around: “I’m so jetlagged since I got back from Singapore. And next week I have to be in Geneva with the CEO.” It was true, too, but he had some self-confidence issues and bragging seemed to make him feel better. I guess he assumed the other businessman would be pretty impressed. Maybe they were! Thanks for the tip about “Sky Castle.“ I will definitely be looking that up! Parental bragging is really bad in North America, especially regarding college admissions (also sports achievements). For some reason, parents seem to want to send their kids to the other end of the continent or to an Ivy League school … just so they can impress the other parents and family members. I even know a girl who wanted to attend her hometown university, which had a perfectly sound reputation, but her parents insisted she attend university five hours’ plane travel away. The poor girl was terribly homesick. In Germany, learning English is considered essential by most parents, and they are very eager to have their kids go on an exchange program for a year. Definitely not to Great Britain though. That’s much too close to brag about. Many end up in small town USA and basically get ignored by all the local kids the whole time while their parents are boasting to anyone who will listen that their kids are in America. I don’t know if it’s the same for Scandinavians or other Europeans, but it would not surprise me! Thank you, very, very much for all the times you’ve taken to answer my questions! I really appreciate it! 🙏😍🌺
Oh, I definitely do not know everything in K-pop lol. I actually learn a lot from you guys in the comments, especially when it comes to fandom culture. Oh yeah, from your example with your mom's boss, you definitely have heard the subtle bragging before. And yes, the subtlety girls use in your example happens a lot in Korea too. With "Sky Castle" and parents in Europe sending their kids to university far away, that happens so much in Korean society as well. I've met a lot of Germans in Korea for foreign exchange and when I visited Germany (my parents used to live there) and I haven't met a German that doesn't speak fluent (or near fluent) English. Europe is amazing with everyone speaking 3+ languages. I can see a lot of German international exchange students studying in the US for a year (since Great Britain is too close). It's sad that the German exchange students get ignored in small town USA. In Korea, people are curious with foreigners and will often strike a conversation with them. Europeans get a ton of respect in Korea and heck, even Americans get some respect. I used to go to language meetups in Seoul and remember a lot of Koreans wanting to study abroad or work in Europe. There were study groups in Spanish, German, French, and English. No problem in answering your question! Just want to have good conversation with people around the world 😀
Tough question. It all depends on viewers and the fans choice and taste of KPOP. Blackswan is a team without ANY Koreans. Not sure if they are growing in popularity or not. Some Korean groups fail too. JYP is a big company so I am sure the marketing team will have a good crack for A2K's success. Just don't stop your resources for your current Groups
This is gonna be controversial but I think the biggest problem with American Kpop groups is simply that the members aren’t Asian. For a large chunk of Western fans, the attractiveness/visuals of members plays a huge role, and what drew them to Kpop is their preference towards Asian features.
I agree completely. I know it sounds controversial in the West. Your take shouldn't even be a "hot take," as the kids say either. In Korea and much of Asia, your take is common. Outside of being Asian, I think another big problem is Westerners learning Korean and Korean culture. K-pop fans expect K-pop groups to sing in Korean (or at least a lot of the lyrics in Korean.)
K-pop has always been an Asian entertainment sector, so racial representation tends to skew more heavily towards Asian. The only successful “non-Asian” K-pop acts (so far) have partial Asian heritage. LANA doesn’t even count as fully non-Asian largely because she came from the Asian part of Russia and likely has Eurasian genes.
Good video! It was interesting to hear your balanced perspective on K-pop's success in the US. I think the structural problems in the US music industry and cultural diversity are important factors that K-pop groups need to overcome in order to achieve success in the US. If they can develop strategies that address these issues, I think K-pop groups have the potential to achieve even greater success in the US.
It's been a while! Love the vid! Recently I been thinking about XG, just because lots of their songs are all English and I am addicted to their presentation of music. Maybe next vid idea?
Yo, how's it been! Welcome back :) As for XG, your wish is my command! I've been getting this request a ton. I took a ton of footage of XG at KCON LA 2023 and what better way to show it off than in a video. I may post some XG video snippets on a new Instagram account until the video comes out. I think the schedule is a KCON LA video (with some XG in it, since they popped off at KCON), then "The rise of XG" after. Can't wait to get to the XG video!
If people think JPY's comment is harsh and blunt, good luck tasting bitter taste of life in a harsher way in later stage of your life and you will thank me later.
Im the opinion that music companys and records Labels should create with based on new Systems New Groups to find out what their customer wants from music~~to make people happy there is no limits ~🎉#worldwideworkrightwiderangemorecustomers Its a salad bowl need to be in a global villaging musicindustry When they assimilate to much then they are like Robots~ A Balance between. Both side its nessasary,
JYP will most likely give the girls of A2K PG rated content until Kaylee turns 14 then leave them at PG13 level until Kaylee is an adult. The biggest draw for K-pop is it's similarity to the 1990s golden age of boy and girl bands not the fact it is Korean.
Oh I’m exited for this, cause yeaaah, HYBE has my favorite groups (not that I Stan only HYBE groups, cuz I don’t) and I think HYBE is creative with concepts
I think they don't need or want to adapt to the American market as much as you say. Their goal is to exploit the mainstream reach that Kpop has already gained internationally. They don't need to become standard Amercian pop, but rather they want to promote the new groups internationally from the start, as opposed to letting them spread from Korea organically like it's been happening until now. They need to keep the Kpop formula or else they will lose their own Kpop category that they already have inside the American music market today. I expect these new international groups to still debut and perform in Korean shows because that's where they can showcase their dancing product. Thanks to the internet it doesn't matter where they perform as long as their content is accessible in the target markets, in the target audience's language and so on.
I thought they would be only trained like kpop Idols. Hope they Will sing mainly in english and keep there american vibe with them. The west needs a girlgroup.
tbh, these girls are highly talented, though I'm not sure how I feel about some of his biases. KG has amazing vocals, but she lacks so much in the other areas. However, I can definitely see these girls being a debut group. Lexus has the vibes and dance, Kendall has amazing stage presence and Korean's beauty standard, Kaylee has the cuteness as well as good vocals/dance/and stage presence, and Christina as the rapper vibe (I hope she can learn rap--she seems like the one who would be doin it XD). I don't know about who will be in the final lineup, but I'm sure Camila, Kaylee, Kendall, and highly likely KG (jyp has a HUGE bias towards her).
Eh I do see what you’re saying here but I do think you are confused about what k-pop is comprised of. K-pop is just pop music based in whichever part of korea specified of course in the context of this discussion we’re talking about South Korea…so generally, a2k is in collaboration with a western label but that doesn’t negate the factors that are required for a group to be considered k-pop. A2k is still a k-pop group lol there’s no “american” in the front of it because these girls are training and recording at JYP entertainment which is located in South Korea…overall, you guys need to remember that one’s ethnicity or race doesn’t determine whether a group is k-pop or not, it’s really the location and source of production value (which is usually the same). So yes, k-pop groups with non Korean members or k-pop groups in collaboration with western labels are possible solely depending on the budget. A groups success usually heavily relies on the budget, beauty standards and promotion. But excluding those factors no, a fully American budget and label based k-pop group (with no collaboration from a South Korean label) wouldn’t be successful because it wouldn’t be taken seriously, low budgeting issues would be a turn off for most obviously and lastly it would just be perceived as appropriation/mocking. Part of the appeal in kpop is the k culture that is expressed in within that sphere of media like interviews, variety shows, the language, etc. without those things? People wouldn’t care and again people wouldn’t take it seriously. So yeah.
While I do see what you're saying too, I respectfully disagree with your take. A traditional K-pop group is one that has all Koreans, overseas Koreans (such as Korean-Americans or half-Koreans), or Asians in it. As a journalist and reporter that worked in Seoul in the K-pop industry for 11 years, you quickly learn a major factor is a K-pop group's ethnicity and how they're treated based on that. From that, you learn fast that K-pop is a very Asian-favored industry. You also learn that you can't just stick Westerners with K-pop dance/vocal training alone and call them K-pop. Even if they're being trained in JYP's studio in Seoul. A group's ethnicity, as well as other major factors, such as knowing Korean language and culture, makes a K-pop group more legit in most fans' eyes. Yes, even more than its training system. A K-pop group that is American or Westernized is vastly different than a K-pop group, thus, the "American" in front of the A2K K-pop group. A similar parallel is comparing a Korean-American and a native Korean. If you've lived in Korea or know a lot of Koreans, these two are worlds part, in terms of fluency of the language, knowing the culture, way of thinking, mannerisms and acting Americanized. In A2K's case, they're the "Korean-Americans." Unlike a traditional K-pop group, they'll automatically stick out, for better or worse, for being foreigners. With that said, I do think anyone, regardless of ethnicity (non-Asian) can be K-pop. So groups like Kaachi, EXP Edition, and Blackswan are all K-pop. Yet, you can't blame fans for putting a "Western / American" tag in front of all these groups, since it's not normalized for K-pop to be non-Asian. Because of this, these groups have varying levels of knowing Korean, its culture, and its way of thinking. I know there's a lot of fans online that support the A2K group -- and I do too -- the hundreds of K-pop fans I've talked to at K-pop concerts, K-pop stores, at KCON, just this year, paint a different picture. To these fans, they prefer the more traditional K-pop groups than a Westernized or Americanized one. So like you said in your last paragraph, fans wouldn't take an American-only label heading this project seriously. Sadly, many fans are treating the group as if only Republic Records (an American label) was heading the project, even with JYP being the frontman, since the group is Americanized. As in, they're not taking the group seriously. Or want the group to succeed, such as myself, but have major concerns. With that said, I do appreciate your take, as it keeps me on my toes! I also learned something new. EDIT: Grammar and flow
@@Popsori well I mean when you throw in words in front of it that require extra context like “traditional” or “American” then yeah the definition changes but regardless of how people handle it, most people know a k-pop group does not have to be comprised of all Korean members to be considered k-pop…if you did work as a journalist in South Korea I’m shocked you didn’t give proper context on the group black swan in your video either most k netizens literally said themselves that they are still counted as a k-pop group and your take on their audience wasn’t accurate either considering that k- netizens actually support them way more than international fans, their international fanbase is extremely limited and actually tbh international k-pop stans are incredibly rude/racist towards fatou/the group. Vocals and training implemented alone doesn’t matter I’m not sure where you got that but, it’s the source and location specifically that matters. A group training in America and under an American label cannot be considered K-pop obviously but yes a group training under a South Korean label in South Korea pretty much is. there’s much more nuance to my take that usually gets shoved aside due to perceptions that heavily invalidate the understanding of poc unity as well as everyone’s ignorant understanding of ethnicity, nationality and race but yeah umm… nobody is really mad at the way people perceive American contestants in k-pop groups either I mean at least I’m not tbh. it’s pretty clear that both sides will have varying issues because both parts of the world function off of different standards and interests. It’s definitely a special case we have to simply try out with more than one group like you said in the video because we genuinely don’t know. more or less I do think the concern is very melodramatic though because overall as much as everyone tries to break stuff down, it all comes down to wealth. That’s literally it…any artist in the world has a huge chance at success if they are under a highly funded or even popular label…it’s just simple as that…a majority of the examples of attempted American kpop acts you listed off in the video had other major set backs you failed to touch on that prevented their success outside of being American based groups like budget, timing, age and visual marketability….I mean tbh those factors could have been dissected more in your video especially knowing how financial gain is the core of the music industry But eh overall, this thought process that one’s race or nationality will hinder the success of a group under some of the richest companies in the world (dream academy and a2k) is a bit odd specifically in the context of which labels are behind this which we all know but hey! I personally think these groups will do just fine solely because of the high budget they are getting. We see blackswan, we see xg. they’re decently successful groups under not so huge companies..I mean they may not be blackpink level famous but they’re still doing good…ofc they get discourse every now and then but so far, there hasn’t been any amount of outrage or boycotting that has caused these groups to disband due to the public’s issues with non Korean idols and that says a lot especially when we look at the rocky history that blackswan and DR Music had. Don’t get me wrong I love the ins and outs of this discussion but some of the concern and critique does seem severely out of touch and as if everyone is kind of overthinking it and aggressively worrying instead of understanding the context, the examples or the proof that is right in front of us imo
After explaining your take a bit more, I'll roll with your definition what makes a K-pop group: source and location. I would add that if that group is learning Korean language and culture. Believe it or not, there's some idols that don't try to learn them. It's much like some ex-pats that live in Korea for 15-20 years, but still don't learn any Korean. As for Blackswan and other non-Asian K-pop groups, I do agree that K-netizens support them more than international fans. I even say in the video that international fans can be a double-edged sword, in that there are many fans that say they're support of American / Western K-pop groups, but their actions show otherwise and crap on them. As for groups coming from the Big 4, I agree being from a huge label helps a ton.
An American K-pop group by definition can not succeed in Korea. The expectations and prejudices are too difficult to overcome for them to be big in Korea. However, an American girl group trained in the manner of K-pop can in America! They must be tailored to the American market and not the Korean market. They could cross over but it is very much a crap shoot. I will go out on a limb and say they will be successful in the American market, a mild hit in the Asian market, but they will rule and takeover the Latino market.
Every Kpop fan knows that JYP is a perfectionist so his hard criticism is not a surprise. People who say he is too harsh ya just a bunch of snowflakes.
Good summary overall, but this is not a very positive or a balanced review. Its giving us a lot more negativity, but do realize this is a money making career, for long term, over 15 years average for dedicated kpop artists! But thanks for treating JYP and the contestants fairly. Humility reigns in Korea.
That's a fair comment and I respect your opinion. I would say my take is more of "I support the girls, but see a lot of obstacles for VCHA and future American K-pop groups because of these reasons." I like to keep it real on this channel. I think a person can both be critical, yet supportive at the same time. I do like JYP - I think he gets a crap ton of unfair hate when he's one of the better CEOs / producers - and the contestants are great. If VCHA can make American K-pop big, I'm all for it.
13:44 I don't see that at all. Diversity is just an assertion in the States. The hip-hop/RnB sector is dominated by the black music scene. Rock/Metal by whit guys. Only in pop there are more diverse groups, but they have not been as popular for a long time. There is also Latin pop as a strong niche, but it is also hardly diverse. btw. Especially from the Black/Latin music scene comes the criticism that diversity is only pretended and separated with subgenres.
You make a great point. Genres in US music are largely dominated by one ethnicity. I think with idol music, that's where diversity plays a bigger part (or at least, is more encouraged). Thanks for the heads up on this!
i think its impossible to say if VCHA will find success, there might have been previous attempts, but VCHA feels like a more serious venture into the unknown, its well funded (Jyp money) well broadcast and advertised ( a free to watch youtube show showing the process of forming the group) and heres to hoping they will have quality music, but VCHA is an experiment, and people dont do experiments unless they want to find out if something works
Once i've Heard from Camila of 5th Harmony that when they released songs that were family friendly, there was not Massive response from public, it was when they released Work from Home, and other songs that had more sexy content, the group Start to going well. i don't know, american market is used to that. The future is not said, so let's SEE how Jyp surprise US.
If you just think of them as American or UK group and not a American K-pop group then what made Spice Girls or Fifth Harmony popular? Good songs, radio play and a big record label backing them. If a group like A2K can get a hit song and get some radio play or Spotify playlisting then they can be popular in America like Fifty Fifty Cupid.
JYP might be harsh, but he's always fair minded -- it's pretty hard to give criticism to teenagers, especially if they're already overachievers like potential idols. He knows what it takes to survive in that crazy world and blends very specific motivational comments with criticism. He also seems way less shady than Lee Soo Man and YG lol
9:45 I get this but at the same time as long as the members from any group make an effort to learn, respect, and understand Korean and Korean culture, it's not that big of a deal. After all, K-pop is heavily influenced by other cultures, especially African American culture. So to anyone who has made this argument, why should people from other cultures not be allowed to participate in it? 12:23 We are quite literally the blueprint, and even JYP has acknowledged this himself. Hip-hop and R&B are not the same genre though, but it's typical of Billboard to mash them together like that considering the way they treat Black artists. Anyway, I really like the points made in this video and even the topic itself is very interesting as an American. I'm not really into K-pop, I love a few songs here and there but I personally do prefer solo artists over music groups/bands, but Vcha has gotten me interested. The show also helped, as it's gotten to help the audience personally know the members.
The American music industry has had many cross-over artists, such as Latin/Spanglish music. Aegyo in American English is called goo-goo-face, and it's more common among Gen-X and older Americans. Gen-X and older Americans also learned singing and performance skills in school starting in Kindergarten. Honorifics and associated good manners exist in American language and culture but Gen-X seems to be the last to use them. American entertainment companies control what their artists do in public. There are Korean pop performers who clearly lack discipline and creative freedom.
Ahhh that's a good catch with goo-goo face that I missed! It's well-before my time, but it'd be interesting if aegyo made goo-goo face come back in US pop culture.
An American K-pop group won't work for several reasons: 1. Musically, I think that Westerners interested in K-pop like it *because it isn't Western.* Now, there may very well be a Yellow Fever aspect to this, and there may very well be a hipster "I like [insert act here] - you probably haven't heard of them" aspect to this, but, though hard to define, there is some "K-pop-ness" that K-pop fans want that cannot be had from Western artists. Especially for 2nd Gen ajusshi like me, there is something about current 4th Gen K-pop that feels off, and it is because the 4th Gen is chasing the Western market. BTS after "Blood Sweat and Tears," is tres meh, and I think that it is so because their music changed as a consequence of their viral success. 2. Speaking of BTS (and Blackpink), it is a mistake to use them as examples of what people looking for K-pop want. A lot of their fans are not K-pop fans - they are BTS and/or Blackpink fans, just as Americans who were crazy about the Beetles were not into the British music scene of the 1960's and '70's as such. We see this also with Blackpink's music; there was a shift after "Ddu-du Ddu-du" in which their recent stuff is not as interesting. I will also note that half of Blackpink grew up in the Anglosphere, and I think that this easy code-switch into Western culture helped people not into K-pop as such like them. Of course, there is no reason why a company like JYPE couldn't just make a Western pop group and incorporate aspects of the Korean idol training system. Such systems have worked before - Disney stars and Motown groups are good examples. It just won't be accepted as K-pop because making their music "appeal to the international fan base" means leaving the K-pop ecosphere and entering the much larger English pop ecosphere, and what results is a pop act that happens to come from Korea rather than K-pop. 3. Speaking of Yellow Fever, one major problem with an American K-pop group is that it would not look right. Call it racist or whatever, but K-pop fans expect their idols to look East Asian. Sure, one can throw in a SE Asian for flavor, but CJK is an essential part of the look of K-pop. IT is sort of like the reverse of what Ailee dealt with in the States - her voice and her appearance did not match the industry standard. This is also why white rappers have a difficult time making it big (unless their work is all behind the scenes). Eminem had great talent, but I suspect that what really helped him get popular was that he did in fact grow up in the 3rd-World shithole part of Detroit; for comparison, Ice Cube went to a nice suburban school, and went to college where he studied architecture, but had could easily put on gangstaface. Similarly, the 2012 "Les Misérables" was just an American musical film - it wasn't an American version of Bollywood. K-pop needs to look Korean. Similar-looking Japanese or Chinese (ethnicity - includes Taiwan) who can speak Korean are good enough to pass. Note that all the Thai K-pop idols seem to look more East Asian rather than Southeast Asian as compared to the average Thai (or at least can approximate it with makeup). Like it or not, this is a part of K-pop that cannot be overcome by whispering "JYP" at the beginning of the song. On a related note, being fans of a particular entertainment company is normal, arguably essential, in K-pop. It is a concept that Americans find weird, but that is because we don't live in a country where our professional sports teams are tied to a company like LG (meaning the teams themselves, not the naming rights to the stadium). 4. I don't think that lyrics in English are necessary, or even necessarily desirable for K-pop. Idols don't write their title tracks and everyone knows it and is OK with it. For non-Korean speakers, the lack of auditory understanding might even be a positive as they can enjoy the music without having to deal with the insipid lyrics. As you say in the video, Western pop artists are expected to write their own songs - it makes listeners feel like the songs have meaning. People expect idol music to be written by someone other than the singer(s), so lyrical content isn't that important. 5. The biggest problem with creating American K-pop, however, is the nature of how the parasocial relationship between consumers of K-pop and the idols is built and maintained. A good part of the appeal of the idol is that they appear on variety shows with idols from other groups, actors and people like Yoo Jae Suk where they do silly things for the camera. Sure, they may still be performing rather than being themselves, but it is good enough for the illusion of relatability - sort of like how fans of pro wrestling know it is fake, but the show is real enough to accept the illusion. This works in Korea because travelling the whole length of the country takes only 3 hours and half (literally) live in the Seoul metro area anyway, so it is not difficult for all these different players to interact on or off camera. In contrast, not only are American entertainment fields more distinct from one another (i.e., idols appearing in dramas is normal, an American pop star appearing in a non-music show that is not a cameo is not), but there are multiple different large metropoles far enough away from each other (5 hours by plane from LA to NYC) that it takes some serious commitment for a celebrity to film in another city. We cannot have something like Running Man in which a cast member shoots the show on Monday in Busan, performs on a music show in Seoul on Tuesday, throws out a pitch at a baseball game in Incheon on Wednesday, shoots Happy Together back in Seoul on Thursday, films an episode of a drama in Gyeongsang on Friday morning before driving to Ulsan for the fan-meet later that day, flies down to Indonesia to film Law of the Jungle on the weekend, arriving back late on Sunday, then be expected to do this week after week, year after year. This assumes that the idol is also still not in school. Seeing this celebrity interaction, not only with other idols, but also with entertainers in different fields, is a non-negotiable part of idol culture, and the United States simply doesn't have the geography or cross-genre entertainment culture to accommodate this.
It will not be possible here because the US has too many strict rules that protects young talent, and they have to be cautious about abusive practices including sexist and mental abuse…
JYP's criticism of a singer's singing isn't being harsh. He is looking for a certain sound/emotion. It's not personal. He just wants the best from them.
A2k feels like a western group made for korean Market, whereas HYBE approach seems like a western group for western market, just the system is korean.. Much like XG
i love kpop. first got interested in 2007 with Wonder Girls (jyp) and then SNSD (Girls Generation an SM company). i have loved it ever since. their is nothing else like kpop nothing..it is on a whole other LEVEL....i also like hard rock and metal. but kpop is awesome , great. maybe the Western Experiment will work maybe it won't. But i think it is worth a try., if it maintains many of the elements that make kpop great in the first place. that being said, nothing will replace kpop for me personally..kpop makes you feel good.
A2k started pretty well and it grew on me. Some people might dislike this man jyp but he knows how to produce girl groups. Wishing them success for thier debut
I agree. Despite what people think about JYP - I personally think he's among the top CEOs in K-pop compared to others, he produces some great girl groups. I also wish A2K well on their debut.
watching these contests by JYP has given me much respect towards him. He always looks so rigid, but through the shows, he is very humble and tries to say things in the best light, sometimes bluntly but most of the time positive.
He’s good at producing but not marketing them for sustainability reasons. It’s been so many years I still only know 4 members from Twice 😅
@@_aPaladin nah he plays the "cool guys" instead of telling them what's wrong
why is he giving itzy bad songs then?
I think A2K girls would succeed seeing how they already have this kpop feel to them and I love their personality and chemistry with each other which is something that kpop fans love about kpop. I’m supporting them all the way!
Almost all of their views are already more than 2B
Mhmmm JYP really knows what he's doing and I'm so happy he's making it happen
@@sheisme6327it does not💀
As an American, I've really enjoyed watching the A2K shows so far. The girls are very talented and several of them are truly beautiful.
You should watch BabyMonster. They already completed their journey to forming the group but its so much better than what JYP did with VCHA. YG showcase a lot more and did much more with BabyMonster compare to what JYP did with VCHA.
@@harryvuemedia5106no one cares
I think you accidentally reversed the Eastern and Western culture differences. Asian cultures are collectivist societies, while we in the west are individualistic. Eastern cultures prioritize discipline so much more than us, we are more freedom-focused
Dream Academy looks next level. I believe they will also have a Netflix docu on it.
Yeah, I can't wait to see the Neflix documentary on the upcoming reality show. Quite curious to see Hybe and Geffen Record's strategy on creating a global group.
if the final group is going to be like r u next one, definitely is not going to be on a talent next level 🤣
Oh, I didn't watch R U Next. Is the group on that show good?
@@Popsori no, its the worst line up ever. only pretty girls without talent. i dont like hybe survival shows cuz you can definetly watch that trainees are doin lip sync and the pre recorded voices are fully auto tuned.
@@PopsoriNOPE the final line up is a joke, the most talented members were yeeted out of the show. I recommend you to watch the Bad Boy performance of one unit in the show and you'll be shocked to know that none debuted from that unit
One thing I've noticed about Kpop is that with enough money you can secure success for your group, and while you still need HUGE financial backing to be successful in the west it's meant to look like organic growth, and even singers with huge labels behind them they can still fail if they feel inauthentic.
I do think money helps you get more promotions and funding to put out a group, yes. But like you hinted, money only goes so far.
But I do think branding and powerful labels are more important. For instance, a major reason why A2K and the upcoming Dream Academy reality shows are making a huge wave among int'l fans is because they're from JYP and Hybe, which are Big 4 companies.
Big labels + organic growth are most likely the best ways to grow a new group, especially overseas.
That's feels false to me, some of the biggest music acts in the west have been inauthentic groups from New Kids on the Block, Nsync, Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, Pussy Cat Dolls, One Direction, Little Mix, Fifth Harmony. The fact is that naturally forming groups is just way harder then going solo or forming a band and so you see organically form pop groups very rarely. So when it comes to groups, the west really doesn't care how they get them as long as they get them and their good.
Money doesn't guarantee success in the music business. JYP has a lot of groups including Twice, Stray Kids & Itzy and as long as they stay in Korea, they will thrive. USA is not really friendly towards Asian singers sadly so VCHA could fail in America but succeed in Asian countries.
lol Show them a Simon Cowell critique.
it would be nice if the final a2k members will be the next american girl group who can sing, rap, and dance. But i want them to sing in english and to be promoted in america or in global stage.
They most likely will
They are gonna sing in english just like how NiziU sings in japanese (maybe having korean/japanese/spanish versions of their english songs but that's it)
Yes, I think they'll be singlng in english as well. They might have some songs that are korean/english mix like the normal K-POP groups but the majority of the songs written for them will be in English. They've already performed several english versions of popular kpop songs and personally I think it was great.
I think that's the point? Just like NIZIU is promoted in Japan mostly
you can get success from being Viral on TikTok, and people don't care if you are korean or not: CUPID, New Jeans... If JYP markets them right and give them a unique personality and creative direction, they can make it globally and have their audience, they don't need to belong to a specific country to make money. It's all about good music, if JYP invest in good content and the girls are charismatic, they will get an audience
they look promising since they have at least 5 contestants who are musically inclined and has wrote, composed, and produced their own songs before like releasing few singles. I'm sure JYP is still training them to speak Korean but I wish they would just market them as a global gg same as XG. I hope they will be trained liek Nmixx&Xdinary Heroes vocally and through their intruments.
I mean, that's basically the end goal, which is to be a global gg. The A2K main market would be the West, similar to how NiziU's main market is Japan, even though they were trained through the K-pop system. I'm sure they'll go on Korean music shows from time-to-time but I'm assuming their music will be in English only. It will be interesting to see if A2K and HYBE's Dream Academy will take off. There is a market for a western girl group since there's not a big one at the moment.
Camila as a vocalist is on-par with Nmixx's Lily. All the girls need now is a great song to debut with.
@@MrSuperjam789I actually don't know why people is still confused about them "singing in korean", it's clear that they are gonna sing in english and promote in the West
@@twice__drippin_stan4676most of them that had that mindset probably didn’t watch nizi season one or follow Niziu
As an American, kpop entirely fascinates simply because its a window into a totally different culture: that's the appeal. The whole family communal nature with honorifics, this is very different from western focus on individuality and independence. We have variety shows in the states I couldn't care less about cause they're one note and passe to me. I find shows like knowing bros, old weekly idol and all the unique to me korean variety shows more interesting cause it's an actual culture study. The whole idea of an American kpop group is ass backwards to me, it's like someone is actively trying to disinterest me. The risk of overexposure and pushback is very real.
For sure, I think the appeal into a vastly different culture, Korean, is a huge appeal to Westerners. Like you said, the whole respect thing in Korea (and Asian countries, in general), being part of a group, family, and honorifics when speaking is like living in a different world from the US.
I can see how an American K-pop group may turn off many people, and in A2K's case, it's not the girl's fault. Rather, it's that the K-pop group won't have Korean culture and language behind it, since the girls grew up in the US / Canada. The experiment of Western girls backed up by JYP and K-pop training will be interesting.
Let's see if groups like A2K and Dream Academy can carve out a niche in the US.
Like you said, I'm thinking the A2K girls are going to Korea since JYP has his main HQ and training center in Seoul. I do agree with you that foreigners like K-Entertainment because it's not English / Western based.
But we'll see what happen and if the casual, non-K-pop American will like the A2K and even Dream Academy group.
@@_I-OvO-I_lol that's exactly what they will be doing. They will be an English speaking group with kpop style training.
@@Popsori I know people aren't going to support a2k if there are people as young and Kaylee and gina
I think they won't either. The only way an American group with girls as young as Kaylee and Gina are supported is if they come from a Disney background or similar kids-friendly vibe.
In JYP and A2K's case, they have to play this extremely safe, leaning towards cutesy and fun songs until the two become adults.
My two biggest concerns with a A2K is definitely the age of the girls and how fast this whole process is from auditions to debut. The regional auditions were around this time last year so the timeframe from auditions to the expected debut is only about a year and a half which for trainees is extremely fast. Not sure why they’re trying to rush this so much, definitely think the group could use another one to two years for training.
I think Dream Academy is not trying to be a "K-pop" group, they are just using the training method.
I was thinking that too, but wasn't sure, so I put Dream Academy as another show that uses the K-pop training system.
But isn't the training system one of the most important features of kpop that sets it apart from other industries? But I agree, this show seems to be more westernized.
Same here. It’s hard to believe the amount of (non-Asian) Asiaboos I’ve encountered who are deluded enough to think that they “need” to be an actual K-pop star to pursue such dreams.
I am thinking that only kpop has a clear system on how to make a star or at least how to get into the big stage. In the west it's really not clear how to get there when you are just a teenager. I guess that's why kpop lures people to try.
I agree. I think with K-pop, it's audition, pass said audition, then train until your debut. The path is a lot more clear than Western idol groups when they were popular.
You left out the success of Fifth Harmony, the most recent western girl group around. They were pretty big and with them gone, there's a girl group vacuum in the West. Ever since Fifth Harmony and One Direction disbanded, those groups' target audiences either turned to Kpop because there was no one else in the english speaking market to satisfy their general desire for a music group, or they turned to soloists because they werent necessarily interested in korean culture. Yes, Korean culture fascination plays into why a lot of people enjoy kpop, but you forget about the more broad market of people who just want girl/boy groups in general and could care less about whether they come from korea or not, or they may actually care and inversely would prefer a western group. These global groups will tap into so many different markets: the kpop market, the general western market, the broad overarching market of people who want girl/boy groups, and the more specific market of people who would prefer an english speaking or western group (which, as I mentioned, exists in a vacuum right now). I think overall this is all meant as a multi-faceted experiment: 1. To see if the girl group market in the West is still alive (maybe its dead, maybe its dormant, or maybe its desperate and turned to korea to compensate); 2. To see if Western audiences will respond well to the kpop system if its directed specifically at them (and not mostly at Korea) 3. To try to understand to what extent korean culture plays into the success of kpop (is it the system or the culture? Is it the style of music or the fact that koreans are performing it? Who knows?) 4. If the kpop system functions like a factory, will that be replicable in the West? And 5. To test the potential of a Global girl group that could not only appeal to Korea and the West, but to every country/culture in between (Dream Academy is trying harder in this area than A2K but it still applies to both).
If Blackpink, Twice, New Jeans, and even 50/50 can be so popular in the West, why not a group made FOR the West? First and foremost, this is an experiment.
I think DA and A2K will do ok with the international K-pop fanbase, but I'll be surprised if they manage to reach much outside it. Companies are going to eventually conclude they are probably better off just putting a lot of foreign trainees in their Korean groups. At least as long as the domestic Korean audience will go along with it.
Both can work in Latin America if the latin ones debut (Camila, Yuna, Cristina and Savannah from A2K and the Brazilian and the argentinian one from DA)
Great video, very informative, and many of the points you made make so much sense.
Another point I have to add is in the West there is a way we perceive groups nowadays in 2023, and I'm not sure if the Korean take will translate well. People always say there's a Beyonce in the group, many girl groups have one member that's pushed to the forefront due to popularity, in Korea they normally push all the members who are popular and place them under positions, rather than allowing the audience to choose themselves. Plus the group cannot just do Pop music, there's a girls group called BOYZ WORLD who debuted recently and they have not gotten any traction because they do the Y2K Pop sound. The West didn't gravitate towards them, but they do like FLO a Rnb girl group that debuted last year. Flo is doing extremely well for their Rnb sound, vocals, and charisma. Newjeans literally does what BOYZ WORLD does with the Y2K garage sound and they are well-received in Korea and Western K-pop fans. I'm not sure how A2K will be received, but I do feel they are targeting younger teens as most of the members are younger than/or 17.
I feel the standards are stricter on Western groups as we have multiple groups that are legendary to compare to, so for A2K they will be compared to those groups. If they don't fit that mold it will be hard for them to get noticed.
This was a really fascinating video! I'm a non-US Westerner new to K-pop. I found A2K within a week of discovering that K-pop is awesome and I’ve been following them and Nizi Project season 2 very closely. I’m excited to watch Dream Academy! (If it is streamed for free on TH-cam because I don’t know how else to watch it.)
You brought up a lot of points I had not thought about before.
As you took the trouble to make such a thought-provoking video, I had a few thoughts I would like to respectfully share. I'm going to use the term "Americans/Westerners" or "A/W" unless I specifically mean one or the other.
Marketing:
"A2K is an American group." Camila, the leader, and Melissa are Canadian. It's true that the world doesn't notice much (any?) difference between Canadians and Americans, but Canada, despite quite a small population, is a top 10 music market that is bigger than Brazil's. Canada also tends to have a harmless, "small country" reputation like Denmark or Portugal.
This might help with the marketing to other Western countries if A2K plays up the international aspect of the group - also including that Camila is of Cuban heritage and is multilingual, and the various ethnic backgrounds that the other girls have including Korean.
K-pop fans seem to feel very proud of the extra talents of and languages spoken by their favourite groups' members, and A2K has a lot to offer here!
"Will they be too Korean-ized for an American/W audience?"
Although the US is the biggest music market, there is a vast international market, which is neither American nor East Asian which is available to appreciate something new which might have more elements of familiarity than an all-Korean group.
"Will they be too American/W for a Korean audience?" If A2K were to become wildly successful, would Koreans fear that K-pop is going to be westernized in a way that would dilute what makes K-pop special?
In general, I think you're underestimating the A/W tolerance or respect for other countries' customs and rules of behaviour that are expected of everybody living in that country, regardless of their national origin.
A/W would find it very disrespectful for A/W in Korea to not bow or observe all the expected formalities.
Although individualism is considered important, A/W tend to be VERY concerned about not offending anybody, and would be much more likely to overdo the formalities rather than neglect them. And these A2K girls in particular are anxious to be as respectful and deferential as possible, as their entire dream is to become idols which means they wish to be approved of by Koreans.
Humbleness: When you were highlighting the differences between American and Korean culture, what you wrote about Korean culture traditionally fits Great Britain and by extension Canada and the other Commonwealth countries. Self-effacing, never pushing oneself forward, allowing the praise of oneself by others, but also rather embarrassed by it. For example, Canadians expect their successful athletes to be polite and to thank their coaches and parents, and everybody who has ever helped them along the way from kindergarten onwards. Braggarts are not appreciated. There are also many Americans who share these preferences.
Criticism: I watched Nizi Project season one last week, and I was astonished at how much stricter/harsher Mr. Park was with Nizi candidates.
I was also surprised at how much they cried, but the worst thing was that nobody ever had a tissue or was given a tissue. They had to make do with their hands. Is that a cultural thing?
As for judges being mean without being constructive, that has been a standard feature of A/W talent contests for decades now. It started with "The weakest link", and then Simon Cowell on "American Idol" became famous for it.
I was very pleasantly surprised when Mr. Park gave very detailed constructive advice to the Nizi candidates in both seasons. I am extremely impressed that he can say detailed, technical things in three languages!
Creative control in K-pop: Nobody could realistically expect A2K to write their own songs from the beginning of their careers, nor that they would/should be able to display all the individualism they individually might like to (and might, if they were in the A/W music industry.)
Creative control new artists have in the A/W music industry: Regardless of which country, they want to sell an image of a star or band members freely expressing his or her individual personality.
However, the likelihood that they use numerous focus groups to find out what "personality" is going to sell the best to the target demographic is very, very high. Indeed, it would be a reckless business practice to not use focus groups.
Thank you very much for this very interesting video. Subscribed! 🙏😃💐
I wish A2K all the success in the world. 🥰
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm truly humbled to read your kind comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and watching A2K and Dream Academy.
With that said, let's get to your comments. I'll use the same abbreviations as you, such as "A/W" and even spell using the British / Canadian way lol (using "ur" for behaviour" for instance.) Let's go!
Marketing:
I do agree that having a multilingual group will help the group. JYP's standard for his idols is to speak at least two languages (usually Korean and English) and preferably three (usually Korean / English / Japanese).
Canada does have that more friendly, pristine image from the world, true. The US is also highly respected in Korea as well. I remember a poll in Korea back in 2018 or so of countries most respected by Koreans. The US was number 1.
"Will they be too Korean-ized for an A/W audience?":
I agree that there's a lot of other countries, outside of the US, that could appreciate this group.
"Will they be too A/W for a Korean audience?":
While I do agree that the A2K girls are quite respectful and humble, I do think they're the exception, not the norm. These girls knew what they were signing up for and studied the Korean landscape to know manners and respect.
Yet, with general manners and respect outside of A2K-like shows, I do think Western culture is a lot more relaxed in these aspects. For instance, there's really no formalities in formal speech, outside of "yes, sir" and "yes, madam" or saying "please" and "thank you."
In Korean, there's nine levels of politeness, ranging from very informal and lax to incredibly respectful that you'd say to presidents, royalty, or the CEO of Samsung. If you use the wrong formality in Korean or don't bow towards elders, it's considered incredibly rude and shows you have no manners.
Such formality does simply not exist in the English language.
When I moved back from Korea to the US (California) back in 2022 (I lived in Korea for almost 12 years), I experienced major culture shock.
I saw more kids not respecting elders, which is a no-no in Asia. I've seen a lot of kids talking back, cursing, etc. for the smallest things. I don't see people talking respectfully to elders or their boss. And I don't see many people not thanking others or appreciating others.
Now it may be just those people that I saw, but I see more of this behavior a lot back in the US.
And to be fair, it's not all Americans or Westerners.
Humbleness:
Maybe it's a lot different in Canada and the UK, but in America, I do think more people here are more boastful. People here are taught to be confident, boast about accomplishments, and talk about themselves. I do think humbleness here is often thrown out the window.
While being confident by itself is not bad at all (I personally think it's a good thing), being boastful and talking about yourself often can be seen as anti-humble.
With that said, I do find the older people get, the more humble and more respect they'll give to others. For example, I've rarely met an American over 50 that's not respectful and nice.
Criticism:
Yeah... if a candidate cries, you just wipe it off with your arm or clothes. In Asia, you need to have tough skin to survive.
As for judges being mean, sure, it's shown in shows like "American Idol" since the audience loves to see Simon go off. Music reality shows gets high ratings when harsh criticism is dished out.
Yet, with normal people, I find that a lot of Americans can't take harsh-constructive criticism. It's better to beat-around-the-bush or nicely hint at what's wrong. I'm fortunate to have grown up in the US, since being blunt here wouldn't fly well here.
However, in Korea (and much of Asia), bluntness is the rule. For example, if someone is fat, they'll just say "you're fat and you need to lose weight" to your face. Yet, in America and in the West, this is a big no-no since it's rude.
How this relates to K-pop is that producers and CEOs can and will be blunt and dish out criticism towards their idols. Their thinking is that beating around the bush is a waste of time and they'd rather get straight to the point.
I'll say that JYP is one of the nicer CEOs / founders in K-pop, as he knows both Korean and American cultures. Because of this, he knows when to criticize harshly (Korean) and when to pull back (American).
Creative control in K-pop:
I agree with your take. A lot of pop singers have their songs written by others for much of their career.
I think writing your own songs is more common in the rock and hip-hop world after the singers have a few years in the industry.
Creative control new artists have in the A/W music industry:
I would respectfully disagree. While in A/W, individual personality is highly valued and is great image branding, in Asia, I do think it's quite different.
Korean culture is all about group culture. There's a saying in Korean called "uri-nara" (우리나라), which means "our country." In other words, Koreans should look out for their country, and by extension, the group first.
This follows into K-pop, where it's about the group first, then the individual. If an idol tries to go against the group or just do things for themselves, they'll be shunned. This is not to say that individuals can't have their own star power or promote themselves. It's just that they should always be about the team first.
So the individual personality may work in A/W with the A2K girls, it may not be the same in Korea.
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Thank you so much again for your comments. I'm truly humbled again by your words and you subscribing :)
Despite my critiques towards A2K, I do wish the group does well.
Welcome to Popsori!
@@Popsori Wow, thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions, and so thoroughly as well!
I'm sorry about the delay in responding. I know the most recent A2K episode has been shown, but I have not seen it yet!
I'm certain you have much better insight into comparing cultures than I do as I have not had the pleasure of visiting Asia (yet).
Absolutely, North American culture is more relaxed than any other culture I can think of.
1. It is probably partly due to the English language which is the exception among European languages for not having an informal and formal mode of address eg. English: you. French: tu/vous. German: Du/Sie. Spanish: tu/usted. Dutch: jij/u. Bulgarian: ti/Vie.
For the French-speaking culture in Quebec, I have been told that they are considerably more informal than what would be acceptable in France.
Introducing English-speaking kids to other European languages, explaining formal and informal is always interesting.
The nine levels of politeness sound like they would take some getting used to for westerners!
2. Besides the informal language, another major reason why North America is more relaxed than Great Britain is because Great Britain has always been a very class-structured society in which great deference is paid to nobility, my lord. Upward mobility was only rarely possible before the 20th century (and only for men, although women were sometimes able to marry into a higher social class).
Probably one could make an argument that even today, it may be possible to rise from humble beginnings, and attend Oxford, have a successful and prestigious career, marry into the upper class - but one will never be truly accepted by the upper class “He’s not one of us, my dear.” I think it would be similar for students of working class backgrounds who attend Harvard with the US East Coast elite. (What really pleasantly surprised me about the late Queen Elizabeth is that her most trusted lady-in-waiting was the daughter of a dock worker from Liverpool!)
The grand vision of America's founding fathers was a country of freedom; a place for (white mostly) men to escape the class-structured societies of Europe. In America, it didn't matter who your father was or if you didn't know who your father was (this was still a stigma even in western Europe till the 1970-80s!). If you were born poor in the US, you could have a great work ethic and entrepreneurial skills and make something of yourself.
This is something very much lost on the current, and several generations of recent Americans, because (western) Europe has become a lot more similar after World War II (and eastern Europe starting in 1990s).
I wonder how much influence pop-culture is having on the kids in California whom you mentioned. If you are talking about kids of Korean immigrant parents, I have heard the same complaints from parents who are immigrants from India and China. The kids want to fit in with the predominant culture and often don't want to speak their parents' language or eat their culture's food especially when they're with North American kids.
The kids from Indian parents or grandparents tend to gravitate to hip-hop culture including the clothes and speech. Any Indian kids who are recent immigrants themselves, as opposed to those born in the west, are treated like dorks.
It's the opposite with the Chinese. Many newly-arrived Chinese kids look down on the western-born as not being genuine/pure (?) enough. Any western-born Chinese kid who doesn't speak the language is written off by them as being the same as a white kid.
Humble: I agree that boasting and talking about oneself is anti-humble!
Regarding giving criticism, I was taught 20 years ago the concept of the "crap sandwich." This means the supervisor tells you what you're doing wrong, then remarks on something that you've done well, then finishes it off with the things you need to improve on.
It was seen as a big step forward from the straight dishing out of crap!
I fear that participation trophy culture has made the youngest generation emotionally weaker than they need to be. (I don’t know how far spread it is in non-English-speaking Europe.) Without having to put in any effort, they get the same reward everybody else gets. I agree it may make them feel better momentarily (? unless they realize how patronizing it is), but in the long run, it's a terrible strategy. It's also a disincentive to the top performers.
The team player concept is very much pushed in western team sports, but if people don't participate in that, they might find it strange to put the team above themselves. Now that I think about it, when A/W kids dream of being music stars, they almost certainly dream of individual stardom (unless they want to be part of an orchestra).
The introduction of K-pop into the western mainstream has obviously intrigued and captivated kids of all cultures and backgrounds. Because they admire it, and because these particular girls want to succeed in K-pop, I think they are eager to be team players, and that is the attitude they need to start with.
Living in a foreign culture, for some of these girls for the first time - being immersed in a culture very different from home makes it much easier to get used to the local customs and concepts.
Having been in a non-English European culture, one quickly gets used to the standards and wouldn't dream of addressing a teacher informally, for example. Once as an adult, I was addressed informally by a stranger who sounded like a native speaker, and I remember feeling quite affronted for a sec - then I almost burst out laughing about my reaction!
Thank you very much for taking so much time to answer my questions! I have seen a lot of interesting video titles from your channel so I'll be looking into those! Best wishes! 😎🙏🌸
XG is a pretty successful group. Japanese idols Trained in korea, who sing mostly rnb style music in English. They hit a lot of targets to the public and are pretty popular in japan, Korea and American
XG is doing well so far(I'm a fan) but they're definitely not that popular in Korea. They have a small Korean fanbase at the moment but they also get a lot of hate as well. As for Japan, they definitely have a fanbase but they're not at the top just yet. I do think they'll continue to get successful since they're such a unique group.
Yeah, I can attest to XG not being popular in Korea. I think because of Japan-Korea history, it may be hard to accept an all-Japanese global group (as opposed to a group with some Japanese members, like Twice).
I talked to friends in Japan and they told me that XG is quite popular, so I'm hoping they can continue to grow the Alphaz fandom in the West and Japan.
Excellent video. Very well researched and thought out. Learned a lot. Thank you!
Thank you so much for watching! Quite humbled and always an honor.
I think a2k will succeed They have gathered a good amount of fans throughout the show. The girls are also very likable at first glance like you could tell they choose soft-looking girls on purpose. Even if they don't hit it big they will still gain some success looking at how much attention they're getting on Twitter and TikTok,, really curious at the reception. would be
I am from America, and Motown was founded by Berry Gordy. Motown provided training for their artists in singing, dancing, costumes, and choreography. Our system was different from the training programs in South Korea and Japan, but there was a similar training program at Motown. In the 80s and 90s, we had more boys' and girls' groups than the Backstreet Boys. What I admire about K-pop groups is their dedication and commitment to their fans.
Some of our solo artists and singing groups in America also have strong connections with their fan base, but it's different in many ways. What could work is a Korean American group who can speak Korean and English.
I've noticed that K-groups are using American and European producers and songwriters for their songs. I also noticed that hip-hop and R&B influences are woven into some K-group songs and dance moves too. Black culture has historically pioneered music, dance, and fashion. The last thing is in America it's rarely a singing group that stays together.
I dont think this will be a huge success. I like the A2K girls so far but America doesn't care about groups and they will have to focus on American Kpop audience. I think the skills difference will show and they are literally only training for 3 months before debuting. If they want foreign kpop idols to succeed, they should just open up to non-Asians and accept them as a regular trainee. A regular kpop group with white, black, latin members would be way better imo.
A2K has been training for around a year now, what you're seeing in the show now happened in 2022.
@@rohan68842 Yeah but they are training in Korea for only about 3 months. I heard it could be a bit longer as well but not a lot of time tbh.
They aren't debuting this year. Probably ending of next year
I hoping if the A2K group is debuting in late 2024 that JYPE marketing dept. hypes them up until their debut. It's great that they're getting ample training and time to adjust to the K-pop industry.
Yet, I'm also afraid that if there's not enough marketing between now and their debut, the A2K girls will be forgotten. The boys from LOUD is the best example, as they haven't been heard from since October 2021 (check their Instagram or Twitter).
I agree with this video and your comment. In my opinion I don't think this concept will be successful in the long run. K-pop groups have a unique look and sound crafted through years of training that make them popular in Korea and Asia, which is their core audience. There's also the cultural background with factors such as humility and the Asian work ethic where trainees undergo strict training and will train for 14-16 hours without complaining and the group is prioritized above the individual whereas Western cultures value independence and individuality. I live in the US and like K-pop because it's different from mainstream American music. There are plenty of big name American talents in the U.S. so I don't think A2K can compete with them and they don't fit in with the current K-pop groups
They can, if the produce team do their best job and the finalists have that star qualities. Hope they will be famous like Little Mix, XG and One Direction❤.
...in order for this to work, JYP will have to make them more than a group. These girls will need to become a brand in order to attract American audiences.
JYP should recreate a Dream High type show to introduce the girls to the American public. Their songs will also need to be extremely catchy and unique in order to capture American audiences. The songs also need to be age appropriate since Americans are very angry about minors in entertainment rn.
I would also suggest JYP take some notes from YG's marketing department and get them some collabs with F21, Target, Claire's, etc. so the girls can get more visibility to a wider audience.
I think the mainstream in the US doesn't like cutesy things or girly concepts and it's mostly just seen for children that's why BP could be even more popular but YG hates women lmao. But i do see them making songs that are kid friendly like Jojo Siwa used to do or sumn like that.
Im a Shawol !!! Shinee’s fan and Im going to support these girls. I have not missed an episode! It’s good that Korean entertainment can have a balance now that our girls going there!!
A2K won't be an American Kpop Group just as NiziU isn't a Japanese Kpop Group or Boy Story isn't a Chinese Kpop Group.
JYPE's plan is Globalisation by Localization which is part of JYP 2.0 announced in 2018 where they will be creating talent in other countries to promote in them so Boy Story for China (and Project C), NiziU (and NiziU's Brother Group) for Japan and A2K for America.
JYPE has registered E2K and L2K, speculation that it's Europe2Korea and Latin2Korea.
So based on their previous groups, South Korea and Koreans will be less relevant for a target audience as A2K won't be promoting much in SK but will be facing the American Market however Kpop fans, especially International Fans will definitely be a demographic that will be targetted.
But the weakness is that Kpop Groups that sing in Japanese get a fraction of the MV views for thier Japanese MVs that they do for their Korean MVs as Kpop fans all around the world are more interested in Kpop
Sure, I can agree with your analogy that A2K won't be a straight American K-pop group. Rather, they'll be an American group backed by K-pop training, musical sound, and branding (JYP).
In other words, the A2K group will be looked at like NiziU, who's recognized as a J-pop group that sings in Japanese, but known to fans as K-pop trained and influenced in all things music.
A more accurate description for the A2K group would be "American group trained in the K-pop ways" or "American group with K-pop training."
I do want to see how JYP 2.0's globalization plans turns out in the upcoming years. If JYPE registered E2K and L2K, as you say, it's going to get interesting fast to see a European and Latin American K-pop trained group.
While yes, South Korea and Koreans are less emphasized with these int'l groups, it never hurts to have the motherland of K-pop drawing interest, as it provides another market to sell and tour.
With K-pop groups singing Japanese, I do think it's largely there to appeal to Japanese fans, which as we both know, are have some of the most passionate and profitable fanbase within K-pop. However, I do agree that more people around the world are interested in K-pop than J-pop these days.
@@Popsori From a marketing point of view I think it would be better if A2K gets Asian promotions in Japan rather that South Korea, the japanese market is more attractive for a group like them (I remember Little Mix doing well in Japan) and then expanding to other Asian countries (Philippines, Indonesia, Singapour, Malasya, Taiwan, Thailand, etc). But I might be biased due to the fact that I gave up about having hopes of koreans liking anything related to jype again, like they really hate the company and their groups 😅
I have to compliment you on your report, but I think most of your concerns are not as problematic today as they were 5 years ago when there was little interest in Kpop in the U.S. Today a number of Kpop groups are selling out stadiums and coliseums all across North America. One of the biggest reasons is that Popular North American Music has become boring. The reason the average singers in the U.S. are getting older is that there is little to nothing new happening. The whole scene is boring. Fans and music lovers are having to look elsewhere if they what something new and fresh. Pop Music in the U.S. is giving way to county music and the Kpop scene. Kpop is always coming up with new, fresh, and original acts like New Jeans, Black Pink, Itzy, Twice, and G-Idle. They are fresh, original, and exciting. There is nothing boring about these groups. Kpop may have it's faults, but it is an industry that is vibrant enough to generate this kind of creativity. If JYP is smart and He has proven over and over again that he is. He could be the one to pull it off. Sure there are a lot of reason to be skeptical but that's the fun of it. It's in overcoming the obstacles, that success is made sweet. Rose` of Black Pink said, "We come from two different worlds, but Music makes us one".
One thing you failed to mention - many Americans are disappointed with the state of American pop. Kpop is being viewed by the execs as something that can help revive the American pop scene. And I also think that America didn't give up on the big vocal groups of the 90's - there's a growing nostalgia for those days. The individualism that gets cultivated through the current crop of talent shows such as American Idol and The Voice seems to suggest to audiences that entertainment can only be solo endeavors. Something like A2K will be new and exciting for American audiences.
1:12 Oh Yeah I had the feeling he (JYP) gave every Contestant that was shown to us the same feedback, but different. His feedback was: “You’re not great, but I believe in you, so you’re in” I had the feeling he said that to every contestant but different 😅
You simply MUST MUST add XG from XGALX/Avex to this conversation because they are absolutely killing it in America, Japan and Korea with all Japanese members, Korean system of training and promotion and shows, with all songs in English with a super strong Hip/Hop/R&B xcross KPop sound!
Also in Korea, most Kpop fans are grade school and some mid school... The older kids and college students young adults listen to a variety of K-Indie
100% true on the K-indie part! I first started in the Korean indie and hip-hop as a journalist in Seoul. Seeing the amount of college students and young adults transitioning from K-pop to indie / hip-hop was eye-opening.
It’s going to be interesting seeing them and dream academy compete (especially bc they seem much higher tier) buttt these girls are all supposed to be pre trainee I’m sure all those dream girls have been training for a while
Yes, the concepts are quite different in that aspect. DA girls are already trained while A2K is raw talent that is going to be trained
glad you mentioned blackswan.
i love them ❤❤❤❤❤❤
We Lumina will always support Blackswan 📸🖤🦢🔥
Great video.
Western K-Pop groups have too many challenges to overcome in order to be successful. I just don't see it happening on a big enough level.
For sure. I want to see a Western / Global group appeal to Americans, but I have to admit, it's going to be tough. There's so many barriers to come down for Americans to embrace K-pop or K-pop influenced groups (i.e. the A2K and Dream Academy groups).
The questions posed will be settled (probably) if the songwriting is great!
Just imagine they have a lot of trainess at jyp. But there's no promise that every one will debut. As we all know there are trainess waited for years to debut. Some just gave up and leave.
0:46 Oh Yeah, we also had “Easy On Me” a lot, I personally don’t reaaally like That song, so after two times I skipped it and then in the End in the LA Boot Camp, I was like “hey, who is she? (Mischa) I don’t know her, Oh and who is she (Christina)?” I did not know some of them, cuz I skipped 😅
I loved how well you pointed out facts. I hope who ever watch this understand
I appreciate your comment. I'm hopeful that Western / American K-pop groups will be successful, but myself (and others) have some major concerns, as seen in this video.
A lot of commenters here have a different take though, as about 75% of them are optimistic the group will do well once they debut. I guess some fans don't like it that others point out the major difficulties in bringing K-pop - an American group, no less - to America and expecting the average, casual music listener to suddenly embrace K-pop.
I respect their opinion, as it's great to hear differing opinions. But I think a lot of Western / American commenters aren't taking into account Korean culture and the K-pop fandom in supporting a Western K-pop group. They solely look at the talent and the charisma of the A2K girls and automatically think they'll succeed.
Let's hope they do.
Why label a western group "k-pop" if by definition k-pop is korean? Why not just produce them as a western pop group with k-pop training and standards ? Culturally westerner wouldn't act as korean, so maybe aegyo, bowing, and strict rules won't be appropriate for foreigners. We have to accept that westerners will never be exactly as koreans. A2K had a lot of good talents hope they take this into consideration and market them differently and reflect this in their music.
I thought about the definition of K-pop too. I used to think the "K" in K-pop (Korean) means a group should have all Korean members.
Yet, if we used that definition above, then many groups that have Asian members, but not Korean ones, would not be Korean. For instance, would you consider miss A and f(x) not Korean since both groups had Chinese members in them? Would you consider Kep1er a non-K-pop group since they have non-Koreans in them.
I think with those examples, fans would still consider them K-pop. I would too.
The new definition I have of "K-pop" is if a group sings in Korean, learns Korean, its culture, and uses the K-pop training system and sound.
By using this definition, then groups such as Blackswan, who don't have any Korean members but immersed themselves in Korean, are still considered K-pop, despite their ethnicity.
A more tricky example is XG, who doesn't sing in Korean (all in English), yet checks all the other boxes (i.e. learns Korean, its culture, uses the K-pop training system, has a Korean manager, etc.), so I would still consider them K-pop.
Going past the definition of the "K" in K-pop, you asked why produce a Western group with K-pop standards and training. I'm sure A2K and Dream Academy are intending to do just that.
Yet fans, right or wrong, will still lump them as a K-pop trained and influenced group. An American / global based group will still be fighting for K-pop fans for support, since it may be much harder for the average, casual American to warm up to K-pop.
@@Popsori Of course i agree all these groups are k-pop despite their ethnicity. I am more questionning the need to sing in Korean and learn the culture when these groups are mostly aspiring to be good performers. Of course the influence of kpop and the style of kpop is really distinctive but maybe you could have this standard of performance and visuals in other languages ? I get that it's also a tool for Korea to get foreigners interested in their culture and you cannot separate this agenda from kpop. You could say a lot of foreign artist learn English and sing in English to enter the American market. So maybe it's just because it's new and challenging the views of the world we have ? We are so used to artists singing in English to make it global, it can be bothering to see artists learn another language or culture to do so now ?
@Michyeon Ahhh gotcha. I see what you mean now.
I think with K-pop groups, whether traditional or the more US/global ones being created now, fans associate K-pop with well... singing Korean.
Now, there's a lot of leeway with this, as NewJeans has probably 30-40% of their lyrics in English in their songs. XG, of course, has 100% English. And other groups have around 5-10% of English in them.
I think with XG, especially, fans still see them as K-pop despite going all in in English, since they're based in Korea and learning its language and culture.
So when groups like A2K and the Dream Academy girls may strive to be performers first, a lot of K-pop fans may then ask, "well, if they won't sing in Korean, why don't they just apply at an American music label then?"
I know that's unfair to ask that, as America has no real idol culture these days and traditionally harder for Asian-Americans to break in, but I think that's what many fans will think regardless.
I think with English being the global language, it may be easier for K-pop groups to just learn English (like you mentioned).
But I would personally love it if English-speaking groups attempted to learn Korean if they use the K-pop training system. I'm not asking them to be fluent, as Korean is a hard language to learn, but have a 70/30 split of English to Korean. Or a English-Korean line split like NewJeans.
HYBE and JYP seem to have two different thoughts about this. Bang PD said in a recent interview they have to be willing to get rid of the "K" to reach even bigger global audiences (but of course it will still reflect back on S. Korea, I assume). Meanwhile JYP is pushing "American K-pop" with the idea that it's like an Italian restaurant that doesn't need to employ all Italian staff to be recognizable.
Ive spoken a little bit about this on my channel... Age is a small issue but the concepts, mannerism, cultural differences and style will have to be altered to fit both cultures. In America when it comes to ladies, we like older more mature around 18-34 with sexy, confident, outspoken and bold. Starting out, a group can do something fun like Fifth Harmony's Miss Movin On or Little Mix's Wings but eventually we want to see growth into Beyonce, Danity Kane, or Post-Glory Days Little Mix. I don't the Korean audience would be receptive to that level of maturity (I've heard and read about the level of censorship)
Honorifics will be an issue for Korean but how will that fly for Americans, UK, & Australians? Western Culture we are very loose, relaxed, chill, and very very informal in our language and mannerism.
there are so many different factors that will need to addressed but I'm rooting for the girls as we're invested now. Asan artist, this is definitely inspired me to train heavy and do my own artist development. I hope American label take notes
I love that you mentioned 'Miss Movin On' and 'Wings' and the whole Little Mix music before Glory Days (amazing btw). People tend to forget that these girlgroups were not always sexy/mature/badass and they had a more "teenage" vibe at first
Dream Academy before EP01:
Adela, (19) Slovakia
Brooklyn, (17) USA
Celeste, (19) Argentina
Daniela, (19) USA
Emily, (17) USA
Ezrela, (20) Australia
Hinari, (14) Japan
Iliya, (21) Belarus
Karlee, (19) USA
Lara, (17) USA
Lexi, (19) Sweden
Manon, (21) Switzerland
Marquise, (17) Thailand
Megan, (17) USA
Mei, (17) Japan
Nayoung, (21) South Korea
Samara, (17) Brazil
Sophia, (20) Philippines
Ua, (15) Japan
Yoonchae, (15) South Korea
I'm surprised they have a few 20+ year-olds as applicants. At the same time, I do like how older applicants are getting a shot (as opposed to just teens).
From this list, it looks like the age range for applicants are from 14-21.
I'm not a specialist of Kpop but I also feel like lots of Kpop fans in the world as myself living in France. Lots were starting to like less and less american singers and culture and starting to embrass South korean culture, the kpop system and the asians face also. We can't deny. America is a huge influence in culture in lots of countries in the world so lots of young and older people wanted to appreciate something else. As America is always so present in our life. In France for example, America as a figure of the country of people showing off to much and being not elegant. Also we really like japanese culture with manga anime and movies from years ago so South korean's pop music and entertainment appealed to French people. That's my analyse from an amateur of Kpop since 2007 haha (sorry for my english).
Also my opinion on A2K : I think contestants who look like too much of american girls / cali girls won't be appreciated as much as I say. Lots of people love Kpop because it is different to american music and image. For example KG (the blond contestant) is the image of USA.
I think doing a show like they’ve done will help, give people time to hear about them, get to know the potential members and get to like them. I’d imagine it could at least draw a few more eyes to the debut.
I don’t think they’ll be anything close to Twice levels, and while I like the girls I’m still not sold on if it’ll actually work. We’ll see
It's a realtively new concept that's why we have the feeling it's not working, but like everything in life, it takes time. The labels starting it today are gonna be the ones paving the way in 10 years. Just like the first kpop group who arrised in the early 90s paved the way for groups like BTS and others to shine on top of the world today.
So ig we must be patient. It's taking its time now and might not find success immediately, but it will ultimately since people are fed up with the generic kpop group made of koreans native speakers (or aussie/Japanese). So like everything that's new, people like it.
The main question is to know if it's not gonna harm Kpop's identity bc having international groups mean it's not kpop anymore? My answer would be that as long as they are managed by korean labels of Kpop who supervise other kpop groups, I don't see a problem and think it can be considered like Kpop
If you remember "the rap game" , then you know jyp is a really kind mentor
Not a factory system but a professional system for singing and dancing artists and entertainers.
isn't XG the first global girl group with actual talent? it seems like jyp wants to do something similar to XG
Well, this clip is very interesting point of view from Americans(?) and I do agree with most of narration. In western world after your twinkle twinkle genre, pre-teens don't really have much choice of listening to music before they step into adulthood and starts to talk about money, sex, drugs, foul language, etc, especially like in R&B. I think K-pop mostly sings about love, friendships, rebellious, pains as they grow up, etc. Well America has kids Disney channel, but....
I think K-pop targets pre-adult which allows to maintain kids naive purity before steps into an adulthood as like becoming a butterfly AND majority of Kpop music, melodies are imported from Sweden, perhaps that's why when you hear Kpop for the first time, rhythms can be somewhat familiar. Also another important factor is very eye catching highly production of M/V and choreography. Kpop fans experiences part of being their idol by participating dance moves or cover dances unlike waving your hand or clap while watching Taylor Swift or other R&B rappers music video. Kpop is indeed new genre not only for Americans but massive supporting global auditions where fans want their voices be heard with new genre whether you are ready or not.
As a Korean, I don't think this group is a K-pop group.
This is just an American pop group using a K-pop system.
And if promote this group as a K-pop group, it will only backfire.
I think this group will appeal more to Western fans if it is promoted as an American pop group influenced by K-pop.
I agree on almost everything you have said in this video but please let’s be hopeful for these girls
I agree with you on this. Despite all the concerns I have, I do wish the very best for the A2K girls. I hope they can get a sizable fanbase in the US.
0:39 Yes, sooo many, as you say 90% danced “DALLA DALLA”, after 3 performances of “DALLA DALLA” I skipped it, cuz I got bored of it, really bored, I love DALLA DALLA as a song and I kinda get why nearly all contestants picked it, but couldn’t some of them picked “Not Shy” or another dance by Itzy that is not DALLA DALLA 😅
I think it was said they'll debut in 2024. Also Gina is part Korean as well.
Kpop is all about the visual. The fans want petite, beautiful people
Agreed with everything except one point. With the staggering rise of Japanese culture in America that has *kawaii* in similarity to aegyo... I'm not seeing how you think that will need to stop in order to do well. Also, since its so prominent in k-pop in general, I think a group that makes it a point to entirely stray from aegyo would be weird seeing as even adult idol still do aegyo even if its less freequent.
I AM AMERICAN, THIS GIRLS WILL BE GREAT IN USA AND INTERNATIONAL, GIVEN THEY CUT THE RAP CRAP AND HAVE GREAT WRITTEN AND ARRANGED POP SONGS. DIDDYBOPER ♥️💝💖💕😇😘 🙏
LOL
I’m 💯 love this girl group and will continue supporting them ❤
This might be your best video. All of my concerns you addressed! This is weird, but one of my favorite things about Kpop is I DON'T understand the lyrics (I always shut off captions on MV's) I'm curious if other American Kpop fans are like me. You speak Korean, though, correct,
The best part of not knowing Korean and turning off the subtitles is that you can create your own lyrics :)
I do understand Korean, yes, but sometimes I wish I didn't for some songs, since they have silly lyrics.
If this is my best video, it looks like I should build on this then. I'll study this video and see if all my future videos can be bangers.
I agree with you! I'd rather not know what they're saying. It adds to the experience of enjoying music from another country. Also, there is Western music I have really loved until I read/understood the lyrics and that ruined it for me. Shania Twain "Any man of mine" and "I'm gonna getcha"; Shaggy "It wasn't me". 😖
In both of Shania's songs, she is objectifying men in a bad way. In the first one, she lists all the rules he has to follow, but she can do whatever she wants and he had better like it.
In the second one, she's basically announcing her intention of purchasing/owning a man like she would purchase/own real estate. This is concerning because this is exactly how sociopaths look at other humans - as objects. They have no emotions and no conscience which is not their fault because they were born like that but they look at desirable mates as someone they can prey on (they are golddiggers, but there are probably golddiggers who do have a conscience).
Once they have identified their target, they can go to extraordinary lengths to start a relationship. For example, one lady moved to a different city and began training for a career she was not interested in because that was the way she could get close to the man she was targeting. She completed her training and convinced him to hire her. She got him.
Another one used up almost all of her savings to go on a very expensive vacation because she knew that her target was going to be there. She got him and had him for a while but he escaped.
Sociopaths isolate their partner from their family and friends, emotionally abuse them (at a minimum) and take over their lives.
If you have never experienced this personally or among your family and friends, you're very lucky. It is terrifying when it happens to somebody you care about.
REMEMBER THIS: If she or he seems too good to be true, there's something wrong. If he or she shares every single one of your interests and loves exactly all the same things you love, there's something wrong.
As for the Shaggy song, he's cheating on his girlfriend, and at least one witness saw him cheating with her all over the house, and he just keeps denying it. "It wasn't me." It's very disrespectful to women (to both his girlfriend and the woman he was cheating with. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt as she may not have known that he had a girlfriend and he's also being disrespectful to her regardless) and he thinks it's cool to not only cheat but to lie about it in the face of eyewitness testimony.
But the music is good. I've tried to find instrumental versions, but no luck so far.
Thanks for reading! 🙏😄🌺
So deep with the lyrics :) From your examples, I do think Americans just listening to a banging song without knowing its meaning isn't enough. They want to understand Korean song's lyrics and will look up the English translations of what the K-pop lyrics mean.
have to dissagree with a lots of your points:
8:38 that not true at all, the us industry have for decades plenty of succesful singers who debuted at the same age as a2k: taylor swift chris brown for exemple found huge succes in the us when they debuted at 15 years old. and multiple boybands like jackson 5 new kids on the block new editon etc started at the same age range and nobody questioned their age.the fans who worry ussally don't know the history of us music and how ageist they are.
10:24 the argument about being "too westernized" is kinda stupid since kpop is always being a byproduct from many cultures, including western cultures.and the western culture kpop borrow from (hip hop) is influenced by asian culture snce his inception. and having an american kpop will not having a hurdle of the interest of korean culture in fact it will enhance.since a2k will be associated with stray kids wice more than bieber or ariana grande the new fans they will attract will also check these groups since a2k is directly influenced by these groups.
11:05 first of all you seems to forget the changing landscape of medias .nowdays there is no monoculture like 20 30 years ago so the notion of being "mainstream" is pointless with the rise of streaming (both movies music) who divide folks more than.righ know having a big hit doesnt have the same weight as 20 30 years ago when only mtv was the presciptor of "cool".the lack of monoculture is also why kpop blew up since american medias no longer dictate what is considered "cool""
also we should stop using this word "niche" for describing the popularity of kpop today.its not niche its a billion dollar industry and you can't be a niche and being a billlion dollar industry at the same time.and just because the average us folk can't reconie a kpop star doesn't mean they aren't succesful. take esport for exemple.same as kpop its a billion dolla industry with massive audience .more folks in us watched the final of lege of legends than the nba yet the average joe doesn't know who faker is but know michael ordan even they have no interrest in basket.doesnt mean esport is a niche.
11:50 the decline of western groups in the west have nothing to do with the audience but more with the us music industry being in decline in revenues.creating a group cost a lots of money and with the cd sales declining revenues goes down as well so they cant develop artist in the west anymore.
also the music landscape in us is changing.according to billboard hip hop sales are in decline and even popular rappers lke lil durk have cancelled their arena tour dues to low sales tickets.and some insiders said labels now deprioritise singing rappers and prefers sinigng others rising genres like kpop latin singer or afro beats. rnb is commericialy dead for over a decade and rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades now.
i dont know what you talking about about mvs cause the west stopped investing in mvs a while ago.even western pop agree kpop mvs are at another level.and folks in us still love dance choreography.michael jackson is still see as the benchmark performance wise and beyonce bruno mars was always being compared to hm even tho they arent at his level or kpop level.
16:53 only in some circle writing your own song is valued like hip hop or rock even tho its all hypocrisy since ghoswriting is huge in hip hop but very taboo to talk.most pop stars hire songwriters and nobody cares whitney houston didint write her songs.
24:50 but american pop have borrowed from many culture to created new genre . hip hop,and numerous genres , who will not exist as today without the 808 created in japan and popularised by yellow magic orchestra. i can go even deeper in hip hop with the influence of bruce lee and shaw brothers on the culture but its another topic.
also 60% of netflix uses watched k drama a least once and k dramas are massively popular in the west.folks in usa have no problem watching subs a long as they find the story good. and kpop have also a massive audience in the west its the us white gatekeepers who don't want foreign singer being popular cause its threatening the dominance in us music.
All good in disagreeing. That's where some of the best K-pop discussion comes in. I do remember you from awhile back in posting on another video.
Onto your comments.
8:38 - Sure, there's been stars younger than 18 that have been successful. The examples you listed like the Jackson 5 and New Kids on the Block and Taylor Swift are a few. Yet, with the dangerous age range, I was more referring to young teenage females. Nearly all Americans would prefer their female stars to be in the 18-34 year-old range.
10:24 - The "too Westernized" argument is from the hundreds of Americans fans I've talked to at concerts, cons, and K-pop stores just this year. To these fans, they don’t want too much Western influence to invade their K-pop. To them, they don’t listen to American music because they didn’t like certain aspects of mainstream, US music. You can also find this argument all over the internet, such as Reddit, Twitter, and TH-cam.
11:05 For mainstream, just because it’s searchable on live streaming, Google, and TH-cam, doesn’t mean people will search for that topic. Or even care.
Most people in the US simply don’t care about K-pop, despite its growing popularity out here. Outside of K-pop communities in large cities, such as NY, LA, SF, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, etc. finding people that share K-pop interests are a lot harder.
Contrast this to traditional sports, where it's easy to find a bar of sports fans. Catch a game on TV. Or just talking to a random person about the NFL or NBA team.
As for your other point, I use the word “niche” more as a medium not breaking into mainstream America (or any other country), but can still make a lot of money.
Using your own example, Faker is not known to nearly all Americans (whereas Michael Jordan is), but he's still hugely popular in his field (esports - League of Legends), around much of the world's gamers, and makes a ton of money. As huge as Faker is, he would still be considered "niche" to the average American, since they don't keep up with esports.
There's a lot of industries where they generate millions or billions of dollars, but are still niche and are not known in a country's mainstream public. Two examples are tech and finance, where you may have used their products and services before, but you couldn't really name the company, nor their CEO.
I’m also glad you brought up esports, since I worked in the industry for seven years in Korea. Yes, esports is popular and I would say mainstream among Gen Z and many Millennials, it's not universally known to the public.
Also, esports is currently on a sharp decline, as investors are finding esports fans are nowhere near as profitable as traditional sports fans. A prime example of this is Overwatch League, which was trying to be the video game equivalent of the NFL or NBA, but crashed hard.
With that said, there is still some interest in esports, but it’s largely in the legacy games that came out 10+ years ago, like League of Legends, DoTA 2, Counterstrike, etc. Valorant is one of the few, newer games that have big appeal.
But rather than esports itself, more fans are flocking towards supporting content creators on TH-cam and Twitch, who happen to also be esports players.
The esports scene, from a tournament and competitive league standpoint, is currently on shaky ground.
As for K-pop, while it’s taken big steps in establishing their presence in the US, the genre is still largely known just among US / Western K-pop fans. Most Americans may have heard of BTS and Blackpink before, other groups, not so much. I’ve talked and interviewed hundreds of fans at K-pop concerts, K-pop stores, events, etc. just this year and they tell me that their families and non-K-pop friends a novelty. These people don’t hate or dislike K-pop, but they’re not interested in exploring idol pop.
11:50 Even with a decline in revenue, the top music genres in the US are still hip-hop / R&B (#1), rock (#2), and pop (#3). Latin music is up there too.
I wouldn’t say “rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades” when it’s still the 2nd most popular genre still. There's a lot of rock (and heavy metal, if you include it in this genre) groups that play around the country in smaller to mid-sized venues. If you add up all those indie rock bands, as well as the throngs of rock fans across the US, I see why rock America's #2 genre.
There’s also a huge rock event called Aftershock that always sells out, showing the big appeal of the rock genre in the US.
With all that said, American music is still number 1 in the world in terms of revenue, while Korean music is #6, which is still impressive, but still far behind the US.
16:53 I agree with your take here. With hip-hop and rock, it’s more valued to write your own music after awhile. On the other hand, pop stars hire songwriters to write their music.
24:50 I do agree that American pop also borrowed from many cultures to create / redefine their own music.
As for K-pop having a massive audience, I would say it’s only for the biggest groups that draw fans. I’ve been to a lot of K-pop concerts where the attendance is only 60% with a slew of empty seats.
As for Netflix, while I do think that K-dramas and K-movies are slowly breaking down the subtitle stigma, it’s still there in the US. As stated in the video, 54% of Americans are turned off by subtitles, preferring English dubs. This was evident in the drama Squid Game, where a lot of Americans used English dubs. In addition, some K-dramas are starting to have English dubs in them.
I agree that there may be some gatekeepers in the US that want to keep foreign music being more popular. Some may not like that, say, K-pop is in a foreign language and culture they don’t understand.
EDIT: Some grammar and flow fixes.
@@Popsori ""cessful. The examples you listed like the Jackson 5 and New Kids on the Block and Taylor Swift are a few. Yet, with the dangerous age range, I was more referring to young teenage females. Nearly all Americans would prefer their female stars to be in the 18-34 year-old range."""
what's the difference? cuz boybands female singers have the same demographic:young teenage girls.
""""too Westernized" argument is from the hundreds of Americans fans I've talked to at concerts, cons, and K-pop stores just this year. To these fans, they don’t want too much Western influence to invade their K-pop. To them, they don’t listen to American music because they didn’t like certain aspects of mainstream, US music. You can also find this argument all over the internet, such as Reddit, Twitter, and YouTu"""
just because an opinion is popular doesnt mean its the gospel.its still a ridiculous argument regarless.
""""Using your own example, Faker is not known to nearly all Americans (whereas Michael Jordan is), but he's still hugely popular in his field (esports - League of Legends), around much of the world's gamers, and makes a ton of money. As huge as Faker is, he would still be considered "niche" to the average American, since they don't keep up with esports.""""
but your exemple fail to take a consideration of one crucial point of my argumentation: the fragmentation of media.back then (i mean in the 80s until early 2000s) they was more a shared culture:you knew some celebrities even yo're not interessed in their domain.back then everyone knew who michael jordan was evenif you weren't into basket.nowdays if you're not into basket you don't know who lebron james is.does that mean basket ball is a niche cuz my grandma don't know who lebron james is? no its still a billion dollar industry so still popular.
same thing in musc.im from the mtv era and back then everyone knew who michael jackson madonna u2 bon jovi backstree boys britneyetc.... even if you didnt like their music cause before they was no youtube no social media jus mtv who was the coolest thing for the youth.
a "niche" would be something like jazz who reach a very small audience.kpop in the west, is no where near jazz statut popularity wise so using the world niche is very innappropriaated.
"""I wouldn’t say “rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades” when it’s still the 2nd most popular genre still. There's a lot of rock (and heavy metal, if you include it in this genre) groups that play around the country in smaller to mid-sized venues. If you add up all those indie rock bands, as well as the throngs of rock fans across the US, I see why rock America's #2 genre.""
no you're wrong on this one.yes its a fack rock is no longer popular.by popular .its not just me who said that bur rock fans and critics themselfes who reconise rock isn't popping anymore.they are many reason for why its happened but its a differnet subject..
the reason why rock is number 2 genre isn't because of new artist but its cataog sales.rock fans listen more old rock band than the new one and since its become a nostalgia fest the genre stopped being trendy.
same thing going right now with hip hop and pop music so a2k dream academy or even kpop group in general have a huge road for them to conquer.
"""As for Netflix, while I do think that K-dramas and K-movies are slowly breaking down the subtitle stigma, it’s still there in the US. As stated in the video, 54% of Americans are turned off by subtitles, preferring English dubs. This was evident in the drama Squid Game, where a lot of Americans used English dubs. In addition, some K-dramas are starting to have English dubs in them.""
tv show is a different medium than music.music doesnt have the language barrier tv show have for obvious reason.we saw kpop songs goin viral in us like new jeans omg and the song was full korean lyrics.
Looks like we're back for round 2! Here's my responses:
"what's the difference? cuz boybands female singers have the same demographic:young teenage girls."
The difference is that for many older fans (18+ years old), they will be a lot more comfortable looking at a female adult singing than a kid, unless that group is from a Disney group and geared towards children. Even with teenage stars like Britney and Christina (Aguilera), older fans were more comfortable singing their songs and watching their MVs, since well... they're adults.
"just because an opinion is popular doesnt mean its the gospel.its still a ridiculous argument regarless."
I would disagree. If millions of K-pop fans say their favorite group is BTS/Blackpink/Twice, it does mean something. It means that there's a ton of demand for that group and they're incredibly popular. Or in my case asking several hundred fans who they like, it also means something. It means that there's a pattern of whom K-pop fans like and yes, there's demand.
Having a favorite K-pop group is subjective and like you said, "it's not gospel." Yet, it doesn't escape the fact that when many people like a group, it's a fact that they're popular and businesses will try and meet that demand (via concerts, more merch, more songs, etc.).
""""Using your own example, Faker is not known to nearly all Americans (whereas Michael Jordan is), but he's still hugely popular in his field (esports - League of Legends), around much of the world's gamers, and makes a ton of money. As huge as Faker is, he would still be considered "niche" to the average American, since they don't keep up with esports.""""
I think you're not understanding my definition of what "niche" is. To me, niche means mainstream (like at least 70% of people of all ages) know who a person or company is. If a niche makes a million or billion dollars, that's great too, but not necessary.
To you, you're arguing that if something -- like esports -- makes a billion dollars, it can't be niche because... well, it makes a billion dollars.
I argue (using my definition) that there's a ton of industries, like fintech, tech, banking, etc., that are billion dollar industries, yet you and I don't know who the CEOs are or even the company.
If I went out in the middle of a city's downtown and asked who random Fortune 500 fintech or tech company is (that's not Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc.), nearly no one would know. So yes, even if that company made a ton of money, it's still niche, since it's not known to mainstream (again 70% or more people of all ages).
Yet, if I went into downtown LA or NY and asked who LeBron James, Beyonce, or Bruno Mars are, I bet 9 out of 10 people would be like "yeah, I know them." Those people are mainstream and not niche.
"""I wouldn’t say “rock stopped being relevant for more than two decades” when it’s still the 2nd most popular genre still. There's a lot of rock (and heavy metal, if you include it in this genre) groups that play around the country in smaller to mid-sized venues. If you add up all those indie rock bands, as well as the throngs of rock fans across the US, I see why rock America's #2 genre.""
Okay, so do you have a published source on rock not being the #2 genre or outside of the top 3 genres in the US? My sources are Billboard (in the video) and Aftershock, which I'll be covering as media and sold out at like $399 per ticket, showing there's still a lot of demand for rock.
Let's say that your argument is true and that rock fans today still listen to the older rock musicians, like Guns n' Roses, Metallica, etc. That still counts to those group's sales, attendance, and more importantly, propels rock to the #2 most listened to in the US.
If you have any sources that say rock is no longer in the top 3 of US music genres, I'm all ears.
"same thing going right now with hip hop and pop music so a2k dream academy or even kpop group in general have a huge road for them to conquer."
I do agree with you that Dream Academy and A2K have a huge road ahead of them to conquer. It's possible, but it will be difficult, for sure.
""""As for Netflix, while I do think that K-dramas and K-movies are slowly breaking down the subtitle stigma, it’s still there in the US. As stated in the video, 54% of Americans are turned off by subtitles, preferring English dubs. This was evident in the drama Squid Game, where a lot of Americans used English dubs. In addition, some K-dramas are starting to have English dubs in them.""
While movies is a different medium than music, there's still a lot of Americans that still have the same stigma about not understanding a song's lyrics.
Also, picking NewJeans is not the best example to support your argument. I just looked up their newest song "ETA" and over 50% of their lyrics are in English. Heck, even the chorus "what's your ETA? What's your ETA? Mmm-hmm" is all in English, making it a lot easier for the casual, non-K-pop American listener to understand.
Heck, even your example of "OMG" has around 35-40% English lyrics in it.
Which brings me up to my new point: the casual, non-K-pop American listener will be drawn to songs that have a lot of English in it, like most of NewJeans' songs, XG, FIFTY FIFTY's "Cupid," or any English album release from K-pop stars.
If K-pop labels just released full out Korean songs to the American public, most won't listen to it outside of K-pop fans. Understanding a song's lyrics is very important to Americans.
EDIT: Just noticed that there's a few TH-cam comments here that back up what I say. These American commenters said they showed their co-workers or friends K-pop and they didn't care or were confused as to "why would someone listen to something they can't understand."
I thought A2K group will be based in the U.S. like NiziU in Japan. Of course they will be recording and training in Korea, but probably releasing the album from Republic Records. Most of the NiziU fans are non K-pop fans. Actually NiziU made K-pop popular in Japan. I’m wondering if the same thing will happen for A2K, and I‘m excited.
You were saying how Korean culture values humbleness. I just stumbled across this video (which I am enjoying very much!!), in which Mr. JY Park is singing to the younger generation about all of his accomplishments. "Still Alive" is the title, and it appears to be at least seven years old.
How is Mr. Park's attitude perceived in Korean society? Is it ok because he really has achieved all of these things?
He's obviously a marvelous entertainer!
I don't mean to put you on the spot as it were. I don't mean this comment as a "gotcha." I really enjoyed the video and personally have absolutely no problem with Mr. Park exuding confidence especially as the songs I have seen from him are bursting with joy!
I would like to know the reaction of Koreans, though, because it would help me to understand the culture better!
🙏😄💕
No problem at all! I'll be more than happy to answer your question 😀
I can't speak for all Koreans, as I'm actually not even Korean myself. I lived and worked in the K-pop industry in Seoul for 11 years, so I can speak from my experiences and what I've seen talking to friends, fans, managers, and sometimes, other CEOs from labels.
From all this, JYP is quite respected in the K-pop industry in Korea. Even though being humble is a big virtue in Korean society, if elders do it, it's more acceptable, even if some may still think they're a braggart.
If a person is a known celebrity that can back up their accomplishments, like JYP or the CEO of Samsung, then a lot more Koreans will accept it. Since JYP is also a bit older, there's this aspect of having to respect elders. So there's a bit of a pass in Korea for accomplished, elder people to brag a lot, especially to younger people that want to learn from that person.
Now if it's just a normal person that brags a lot, that will get quickly get shunned in Korean society. To brag in Korean society, especially in the upper-middle to wealthy classes, you have to do it subtly. Something like:
Person A: My family and I just came back from vacation in Busan. What did your family do during the summer.
Person B (wealthy person): Oh, Busan sounds nice! I hope you had fun! We were originally going to go there too, but then I thought I wanted something more grand. At the last minute, we decided to go overseas to Hawaii, then LA to visit family, then New York to catch the opera house.
Even though person B didn't directly put down person A's vacation choice, they flaunted their wealth by saying they just, on a whim, went on a much more expensive trip to the States.
This "humble bragging" or "subtle bragging" is also seen a lot in the education scene, where parents will brag about their high school kid's accomplishments, test scores, and where they got accepted to university / college. If you've seen the drama "Sky Castle," you'll see a lot of subtle bragging a lot.
I hope this answers your question and thank you so much for the kind words!
@@Popsori thank you, very, very much for your very thorough reply! You worked in the K-pop industry for 11 years? That’s amazing! You must know practically everything!
It makes sense to me that very successful adults would be given quite a bit of leeway in terms of bragging, especially if he can prove what he says is accurate, and is a decent person in other respects.
The humble bragging example is excellent! As a matter of fact, that is very much the kind of subtlety girls use on each other starting at approximately age 9 or 10. One girl can say to another, “Oh, I really like your hairstyle today” and the guys who are listening think it’s a compliment. The other girls know from a slight change of tone, and an overly sweet facial expression that the girl means, “You look dreadful/ridiculous. I noticed, and if is any of the other girls didn’t, everybody who is listening right now knows what I think.” It is a form of bullying, but it’s very difficult to get boys and men to understand these nuances.
My mom’s boss used to say things like this to her in the elevator, but only when there were other businessmen around: “I’m so jetlagged since I got back from Singapore. And next week I have to be in Geneva with the CEO.” It was true, too, but he had some self-confidence issues and bragging seemed to make him feel better. I guess he assumed the other businessman would be pretty impressed. Maybe they were!
Thanks for the tip about “Sky Castle.“ I will definitely be looking that up! Parental bragging is really bad in North America, especially regarding college admissions (also sports achievements).
For some reason, parents seem to want to send their kids to the other end of the continent or to an Ivy League school … just so they can impress the other parents and family members. I even know a girl who wanted to attend her hometown university, which had a perfectly sound reputation, but her parents insisted she attend university five hours’ plane travel away. The poor girl was terribly homesick.
In Germany, learning English is considered essential by most parents, and they are very eager to have their kids go on an exchange program for a year. Definitely not to Great Britain though. That’s much too close to brag about. Many end up in small town USA and basically get ignored by all the local kids the whole time while their parents are boasting to anyone who will listen that their kids are in America. I don’t know if it’s the same for Scandinavians or other Europeans, but it would not surprise me!
Thank you, very, very much for all the times you’ve taken to answer my questions! I really appreciate it! 🙏😍🌺
Oh, I definitely do not know everything in K-pop lol. I actually learn a lot from you guys in the comments, especially when it comes to fandom culture.
Oh yeah, from your example with your mom's boss, you definitely have heard the subtle bragging before. And yes, the subtlety girls use in your example happens a lot in Korea too.
With "Sky Castle" and parents in Europe sending their kids to university far away, that happens so much in Korean society as well.
I've met a lot of Germans in Korea for foreign exchange and when I visited Germany (my parents used to live there) and I haven't met a German that doesn't speak fluent (or near fluent) English. Europe is amazing with everyone speaking 3+ languages.
I can see a lot of German international exchange students studying in the US for a year (since Great Britain is too close). It's sad that the German exchange students get ignored in small town USA. In Korea, people are curious with foreigners and will often strike a conversation with them. Europeans get a ton of respect in Korea and heck, even Americans get some respect. I used to go to language meetups in Seoul and remember a lot of Koreans wanting to study abroad or work in Europe. There were study groups in Spanish, German, French, and English.
No problem in answering your question! Just want to have good conversation with people around the world 😀
Tough question. It all depends on viewers and the fans choice and taste of KPOP.
Blackswan is a team without ANY Koreans. Not sure if they are growing in popularity or not.
Some Korean groups fail too. JYP is a big company so I am sure the marketing team will have a good crack for A2K's success.
Just don't stop your resources for your current Groups
This is gonna be controversial but I think the biggest problem with American Kpop groups is simply that the members aren’t Asian. For a large chunk of Western fans, the attractiveness/visuals of members plays a huge role, and what drew them to Kpop is their preference towards Asian features.
I agree completely. I know it sounds controversial in the West. Your take shouldn't even be a "hot take," as the kids say either.
In Korea and much of Asia, your take is common.
Outside of being Asian, I think another big problem is Westerners learning Korean and Korean culture. K-pop fans expect K-pop groups to sing in Korean (or at least a lot of the lyrics in Korean.)
K-pop has always been an Asian entertainment sector, so racial representation tends to skew more heavily towards Asian. The only successful “non-Asian” K-pop acts (so far) have partial Asian heritage. LANA doesn’t even count as fully non-Asian largely because she came from the Asian part of Russia and likely has Eurasian genes.
Good video! It was interesting to hear your balanced perspective on K-pop's success in the US. I think the structural problems in the US music industry and cultural diversity are important factors that K-pop groups need to overcome in order to achieve success in the US. If they can develop strategies that address these issues, I think K-pop groups have the potential to achieve even greater success in the US.
It's been a while! Love the vid! Recently I been thinking about XG, just because lots of their songs are all English and I am addicted to their presentation of music. Maybe next vid idea?
Yo, how's it been! Welcome back :)
As for XG, your wish is my command! I've been getting this request a ton. I took a ton of footage of XG at KCON LA 2023 and what better way to show it off than in a video. I may post some XG video snippets on a new Instagram account until the video comes out.
I think the schedule is a KCON LA video (with some XG in it, since they popped off at KCON), then "The rise of XG" after. Can't wait to get to the XG video!
If people think JPY's comment is harsh and blunt, good luck tasting bitter taste of life in a harsher way in later stage of your life and you will thank me later.
We lumina will always support BLACKSWAN!!! 🖤🦢
You know it❤let's go🖤🦢🔥📸
i LOVE A2k! iif a2k only has one fan, its me
Im the opinion that music companys and records Labels should create with based on new Systems New Groups to find out what their customer wants from music~~to make people happy there is no limits ~🎉#worldwideworkrightwiderangemorecustomers
Its a salad bowl need to be in a global villaging musicindustry
When they assimilate to much then they are like Robots~
A Balance between. Both side its nessasary,
Vcha , will succeed ,vcha fighting ❤❤❤
It doesn't matter what nationality, if the songs are good they will be popular and if the songs are bad they won't be successful.
JYP will most likely give the girls of A2K PG rated content until Kaylee turns 14 then leave them at PG13 level until Kaylee is an adult. The biggest draw for K-pop is it's similarity to the 1990s golden age of boy and girl bands not the fact it is Korean.
they are under jyp they will be successful
Oh I’m exited for this, cause yeaaah, HYBE has my favorite groups (not that I Stan only HYBE groups, cuz I don’t) and I think HYBE is creative with concepts
I think they don't need or want to adapt to the American market as much as you say. Their goal is to exploit the mainstream reach that Kpop has already gained internationally. They don't need to become standard Amercian pop, but rather they want to promote the new groups internationally from the start, as opposed to letting them spread from Korea organically like it's been happening until now.
They need to keep the Kpop formula or else they will lose their own Kpop category that they already have inside the American music market today.
I expect these new international groups to still debut and perform in Korean shows because that's where they can showcase their dancing product. Thanks to the internet it doesn't matter where they perform as long as their content is accessible in the target markets, in the target audience's language and so on.
I thought they would be only trained like kpop Idols. Hope they Will sing mainly in english and keep there american vibe with them. The west needs a girlgroup.
tbh, these girls are highly talented, though I'm not sure how I feel about some of his biases. KG has amazing vocals, but she lacks so much in the other areas. However, I can definitely see these girls being a debut group. Lexus has the vibes and dance, Kendall has amazing stage presence and Korean's beauty standard, Kaylee has the cuteness as well as good vocals/dance/and stage presence, and Christina as the rapper vibe (I hope she can learn rap--she seems like the one who would be doin it XD). I don't know about who will be in the final lineup, but I'm sure Camila, Kaylee, Kendall, and highly likely KG (jyp has a HUGE bias towards her).
It might be a little hard with these Koreaboo running amok.
I dont think 14 is that bad, Camila and Dinah were literally 14/15 years old in fifth harmony
If the music for VCHA is like what they showed them perform in the last three episodes they will fail UTTERLY. I remain highly skeptical.
Eh I do see what you’re saying here but I do think you are confused about what k-pop is comprised of. K-pop is just pop music based in whichever part of korea specified of course in the context of this discussion we’re talking about South Korea…so generally, a2k is in collaboration with a western label but that doesn’t negate the factors that are required for a group to be considered k-pop. A2k is still a k-pop group lol there’s no “american” in the front of it because these girls are training and recording at JYP entertainment which is located in South Korea…overall, you guys need to remember that one’s ethnicity or race doesn’t determine whether a group is k-pop or not, it’s really the location and source of production value (which is usually the same).
So yes, k-pop groups with non Korean members or k-pop groups in collaboration with western labels are possible solely depending on the budget. A groups success usually heavily relies on the budget, beauty standards and promotion.
But excluding those factors no, a fully American budget and label based k-pop group (with no collaboration from a South Korean label) wouldn’t be successful because it wouldn’t be taken seriously, low budgeting issues would be a turn off for most obviously and lastly it would just be perceived as appropriation/mocking. Part of the appeal in kpop is the k culture that is expressed in within that sphere of media like interviews, variety shows, the language, etc. without those things? People wouldn’t care and again people wouldn’t take it seriously.
So yeah.
While I do see what you're saying too, I respectfully disagree with your take.
A traditional K-pop group is one that has all Koreans, overseas Koreans (such as Korean-Americans or half-Koreans), or Asians in it. As a journalist and reporter that worked in Seoul in the K-pop industry for 11 years, you quickly learn a major factor is a K-pop group's ethnicity and how they're treated based on that.
From that, you learn fast that K-pop is a very Asian-favored industry. You also learn that you can't just stick Westerners with K-pop dance/vocal training alone and call them K-pop. Even if they're being trained in JYP's studio in Seoul.
A group's ethnicity, as well as other major factors, such as knowing Korean language and culture, makes a K-pop group more legit in most fans' eyes. Yes, even more than its training system.
A K-pop group that is American or Westernized is vastly different than a K-pop group, thus, the "American" in front of the A2K K-pop group. A similar parallel is comparing a Korean-American and a native Korean. If you've lived in Korea or know a lot of Koreans, these two are worlds part, in terms of fluency of the language, knowing the culture, way of thinking, mannerisms and acting Americanized.
In A2K's case, they're the "Korean-Americans." Unlike a traditional K-pop group, they'll automatically stick out, for better or worse, for being foreigners.
With that said, I do think anyone, regardless of ethnicity (non-Asian) can be K-pop. So groups like Kaachi, EXP Edition, and Blackswan are all K-pop. Yet, you can't blame fans for putting a "Western / American" tag in front of all these groups, since it's not normalized for K-pop to be non-Asian. Because of this, these groups have varying levels of knowing Korean, its culture, and its way of thinking.
I know there's a lot of fans online that support the A2K group -- and I do too -- the hundreds of K-pop fans I've talked to at K-pop concerts, K-pop stores, at KCON, just this year, paint a different picture. To these fans, they prefer the more traditional K-pop groups than a Westernized or Americanized one.
So like you said in your last paragraph, fans wouldn't take an American-only label heading this project seriously. Sadly, many fans are treating the group as if only Republic Records (an American label) was heading the project, even with JYP being the frontman, since the group is Americanized.
As in, they're not taking the group seriously. Or want the group to succeed, such as myself, but have major concerns.
With that said, I do appreciate your take, as it keeps me on my toes! I also learned something new.
EDIT: Grammar and flow
@@Popsori well I mean when you throw in words in front of it that require extra context like “traditional” or “American” then yeah the definition changes but regardless of how people handle it, most people know a k-pop group does not have to be comprised of all Korean members to be considered k-pop…if you did work as a journalist in South Korea I’m shocked you didn’t give proper context on the group black swan in your video either most k netizens literally said themselves that they are still counted as a k-pop group and your take on their audience wasn’t accurate either considering that k- netizens actually support them way more than international fans, their international fanbase is extremely limited and actually tbh international k-pop stans are incredibly rude/racist towards fatou/the group. Vocals and training implemented alone doesn’t matter I’m not sure where you got that but, it’s the source and location specifically that matters. A group training in America and under an American label cannot be considered K-pop obviously but yes a group training under a South Korean label in South Korea pretty much is. there’s much more nuance to my take that usually gets shoved aside due to perceptions that heavily invalidate the understanding of poc unity as well as everyone’s ignorant understanding of ethnicity, nationality and race but yeah umm… nobody is really mad at the way people perceive American contestants in k-pop groups either I mean at least I’m not tbh. it’s pretty clear that both sides will have varying issues because both parts of the world function off of different standards and interests. It’s definitely a special case we have to simply try out with more than one group like you said in the video because we genuinely don’t know. more or less I do think the concern is very melodramatic though because overall as much as everyone tries to break stuff down, it all comes down to wealth. That’s literally it…any artist in the world has a huge chance at success if they are under a highly funded or even popular label…it’s just simple as that…a majority of the examples of attempted American kpop acts you listed off in the video had other major set backs you failed to touch on that prevented their success outside of being American based groups like budget, timing, age and visual marketability….I mean tbh those factors could have been dissected more in your video especially knowing how financial gain is the core of the music industry But eh overall, this thought process that one’s race or nationality will hinder the success of a group under some of the richest companies in the world (dream academy and a2k) is a bit odd specifically in the context of which labels are behind this which we all know but hey! I personally think these groups will do just fine solely because of the high budget they are getting. We see blackswan, we see xg. they’re decently successful groups under not so huge companies..I mean they may not be blackpink level famous but they’re still doing good…ofc they get discourse every now and then but so far, there hasn’t been any amount of outrage or boycotting that has caused these groups to disband due to the public’s issues with non Korean idols and that says a lot especially when we look at the rocky history that blackswan and DR Music had. Don’t get me wrong I love the ins and outs of this discussion but some of the concern and critique does seem severely out of touch and as if everyone is kind of overthinking it and aggressively worrying instead of understanding the context, the examples or the proof that is right in front of us imo
After explaining your take a bit more, I'll roll with your definition what makes a K-pop group: source and location. I would add that if that group is learning Korean language and culture. Believe it or not, there's some idols that don't try to learn them. It's much like some ex-pats that live in Korea for 15-20 years, but still don't learn any Korean.
As for Blackswan and other non-Asian K-pop groups, I do agree that K-netizens support them more than international fans. I even say in the video that international fans can be a double-edged sword, in that there are many fans that say they're support of American / Western K-pop groups, but their actions show otherwise and crap on them.
As for groups coming from the Big 4, I agree being from a huge label helps a ton.
As long as they release good pop music, they will succeed.
An American K-pop group by definition can not succeed in Korea. The expectations and prejudices are too difficult to overcome for them to be big in Korea. However, an American girl group trained in the manner of K-pop can in America! They must be tailored to the American market and not the Korean market. They could cross over but it is very much a crap shoot. I will go out on a limb and say they will be successful in the American market, a mild hit in the Asian market, but they will rule and takeover the Latino market.
Every Kpop fan knows that JYP is a perfectionist so his hard criticism is not a surprise. People who say he is too harsh ya just a bunch of snowflakes.
Good summary overall, but this is not a very positive or a balanced review. Its giving us a lot more negativity, but do realize this is a money making career, for long term, over 15 years average for dedicated kpop artists! But thanks for treating JYP and the contestants fairly. Humility reigns in Korea.
That's a fair comment and I respect your opinion. I would say my take is more of "I support the girls, but see a lot of obstacles for VCHA and future American K-pop groups because of these reasons." I like to keep it real on this channel.
I think a person can both be critical, yet supportive at the same time.
I do like JYP - I think he gets a crap ton of unfair hate when he's one of the better CEOs / producers - and the contestants are great. If VCHA can make American K-pop big, I'm all for it.
13:44 I don't see that at all. Diversity is just an assertion in the States. The hip-hop/RnB sector is dominated by the black music scene. Rock/Metal by whit guys. Only in pop there are more diverse groups, but they have not been as popular for a long time. There is also Latin pop as a strong niche, but it is also hardly diverse.
btw. Especially from the Black/Latin music scene comes the criticism that diversity is only pretended and separated with subgenres.
You make a great point. Genres in US music are largely dominated by one ethnicity. I think with idol music, that's where diversity plays a bigger part (or at least, is more encouraged).
Thanks for the heads up on this!
I dont agree but let's see what they do
At least it’s more honest then murican idol
I watched both A2k and Dream Academy. Both are amazing but DA wins by far.
i think its impossible to say if VCHA will find success, there might have been previous attempts, but VCHA feels like a more serious venture into the unknown, its well funded (Jyp money) well broadcast and advertised ( a free to watch youtube show showing the process of forming the group) and heres to hoping they will have quality music, but VCHA is an experiment, and people dont do experiments unless they want to find out if something works
Conclusion : KAACHI paved the way.
Once i've Heard from Camila of 5th Harmony that when they released songs that were family friendly, there was not Massive response from public, it was when they released Work from Home, and other songs that had more sexy content, the group Start to going well. i don't know, american market is used to that. The future is not said, so let's SEE how Jyp surprise US.
I love blackswan ❤❤ and I am hopeful about future groups
If you just think of them as American or UK group and not a American K-pop group then what made Spice Girls or Fifth Harmony popular? Good songs, radio play and a big record label backing them. If a group like A2K can get a hit song and get some radio play or Spotify playlisting then they can be popular in America like Fifty Fifty Cupid.
JYP might be harsh, but he's always fair minded -- it's pretty hard to give criticism to teenagers, especially if they're already overachievers like potential idols. He knows what it takes to survive in that crazy world and blends very specific motivational comments with criticism. He also seems way less shady than Lee Soo Man and YG lol
9:45 I get this but at the same time as long as the members from any group make an effort to learn, respect, and understand Korean and Korean culture, it's not that big of a deal. After all, K-pop is heavily influenced by other cultures, especially African American culture. So to anyone who has made this argument, why should people from other cultures not be allowed to participate in it?
12:23 We are quite literally the blueprint, and even JYP has acknowledged this himself. Hip-hop and R&B are not the same genre though, but it's typical of Billboard to mash them together like that considering the way they treat Black artists.
Anyway, I really like the points made in this video and even the topic itself is very interesting as an American. I'm not really into K-pop, I love a few songs here and there but I personally do prefer solo artists over music groups/bands, but Vcha has gotten me interested. The show also helped, as it's gotten to help the audience personally know the members.
The American music industry has had many cross-over artists, such as Latin/Spanglish music. Aegyo in American English is called goo-goo-face, and it's more common among Gen-X and older Americans. Gen-X and older Americans also learned singing and performance skills in school starting in Kindergarten. Honorifics and associated good manners exist in American language and culture but Gen-X seems to be the last to use them. American entertainment companies control what their artists do in public. There are Korean pop performers who clearly lack discipline and creative freedom.
Ahhh that's a good catch with goo-goo face that I missed! It's well-before my time, but it'd be interesting if aegyo made goo-goo face come back in US pop culture.
An American K-pop group won't work for several reasons:
1. Musically, I think that Westerners interested in K-pop like it *because it isn't Western.* Now, there may very well be a Yellow Fever aspect to this, and there may very well be a hipster "I like [insert act here] - you probably haven't heard of them" aspect to this, but, though hard to define, there is some "K-pop-ness" that K-pop fans want that cannot be had from Western artists. Especially for 2nd Gen ajusshi like me, there is something about current 4th Gen K-pop that feels off, and it is because the 4th Gen is chasing the Western market. BTS after "Blood Sweat and Tears," is tres meh, and I think that it is so because their music changed as a consequence of their viral success.
2. Speaking of BTS (and Blackpink), it is a mistake to use them as examples of what people looking for K-pop want. A lot of their fans are not K-pop fans - they are BTS and/or Blackpink fans, just as Americans who were crazy about the Beetles were not into the British music scene of the 1960's and '70's as such. We see this also with Blackpink's music; there was a shift after "Ddu-du Ddu-du" in which their recent stuff is not as interesting. I will also note that half of Blackpink grew up in the Anglosphere, and I think that this easy code-switch into Western culture helped people not into K-pop as such like them. Of course, there is no reason why a company like JYPE couldn't just make a Western pop group and incorporate aspects of the Korean idol training system. Such systems have worked before - Disney stars and Motown groups are good examples. It just won't be accepted as K-pop because making their music "appeal to the international fan base" means leaving the K-pop ecosphere and entering the much larger English pop ecosphere, and what results is a pop act that happens to come from Korea rather than K-pop.
3. Speaking of Yellow Fever, one major problem with an American K-pop group is that it would not look right. Call it racist or whatever, but K-pop fans expect their idols to look East Asian. Sure, one can throw in a SE Asian for flavor, but CJK is an essential part of the look of K-pop. IT is sort of like the reverse of what Ailee dealt with in the States - her voice and her appearance did not match the industry standard. This is also why white rappers have a difficult time making it big (unless their work is all behind the scenes). Eminem had great talent, but I suspect that what really helped him get popular was that he did in fact grow up in the 3rd-World shithole part of Detroit; for comparison, Ice Cube went to a nice suburban school, and went to college where he studied architecture, but had could easily put on gangstaface. Similarly, the 2012 "Les Misérables" was just an American musical film - it wasn't an American version of Bollywood. K-pop needs to look Korean. Similar-looking Japanese or Chinese (ethnicity - includes Taiwan) who can speak Korean are good enough to pass. Note that all the Thai K-pop idols seem to look more East Asian rather than Southeast Asian as compared to the average Thai (or at least can approximate it with makeup). Like it or not, this is a part of K-pop that cannot be overcome by whispering "JYP" at the beginning of the song. On a related note, being fans of a particular entertainment company is normal, arguably essential, in K-pop. It is a concept that Americans find weird, but that is because we don't live in a country where our professional sports teams are tied to a company like LG (meaning the teams themselves, not the naming rights to the stadium).
4. I don't think that lyrics in English are necessary, or even necessarily desirable for K-pop. Idols don't write their title tracks and everyone knows it and is OK with it. For non-Korean speakers, the lack of auditory understanding might even be a positive as they can enjoy the music without having to deal with the insipid lyrics. As you say in the video, Western pop artists are expected to write their own songs - it makes listeners feel like the songs have meaning. People expect idol music to be written by someone other than the singer(s), so lyrical content isn't that important.
5. The biggest problem with creating American K-pop, however, is the nature of how the parasocial relationship between consumers of K-pop and the idols is built and maintained. A good part of the appeal of the idol is that they appear on variety shows with idols from other groups, actors and people like Yoo Jae Suk where they do silly things for the camera. Sure, they may still be performing rather than being themselves, but it is good enough for the illusion of relatability - sort of like how fans of pro wrestling know it is fake, but the show is real enough to accept the illusion. This works in Korea because travelling the whole length of the country takes only 3 hours and half (literally) live in the Seoul metro area anyway, so it is not difficult for all these different players to interact on or off camera. In contrast, not only are American entertainment fields more distinct from one another (i.e., idols appearing in dramas is normal, an American pop star appearing in a non-music show that is not a cameo is not), but there are multiple different large metropoles far enough away from each other (5 hours by plane from LA to NYC) that it takes some serious commitment for a celebrity to film in another city. We cannot have something like Running Man in which a cast member shoots the show on Monday in Busan, performs on a music show in Seoul on Tuesday, throws out a pitch at a baseball game in Incheon on Wednesday, shoots Happy Together back in Seoul on Thursday, films an episode of a drama in Gyeongsang on Friday morning before driving to Ulsan for the fan-meet later that day, flies down to Indonesia to film Law of the Jungle on the weekend, arriving back late on Sunday, then be expected to do this week after week, year after year. This assumes that the idol is also still not in school. Seeing this celebrity interaction, not only with other idols, but also with entertainers in different fields, is a non-negotiable part of idol culture, and the United States simply doesn't have the geography or cross-genre entertainment culture to accommodate this.
It will not be possible here because the US has too many strict rules that protects young talent, and they have to be cautious about abusive practices including sexist and mental abuse…
JYP's criticism of a singer's singing isn't being harsh. He is looking for a certain sound/emotion. It's not personal. He just wants the best from them.
A2k feels like a western group made for korean Market, whereas HYBE approach seems like a western group for western market, just the system is korean.. Much like XG
i love kpop. first got interested in 2007 with Wonder Girls (jyp) and then SNSD (Girls Generation an SM company). i have loved it ever since. their is nothing else like kpop nothing..it is on a whole other LEVEL....i also like hard rock and metal. but kpop is awesome , great. maybe the Western Experiment will work maybe it won't. But i think it is worth a try., if it maintains many of the elements that make kpop great in the first place. that being said, nothing will replace kpop for me personally..kpop makes you feel good.