I can remember that had to rescue Ireland in 2008-2010 when they were bankrupt due to the finance crisis and their gambling. I bet this will end in the same situation. In the 80 the EU gave money and german car suppliers moved plants to ireland back then cause I can remember the trouble in the assembly line where the parts were missing cause the irish could not deliver in time. Then they had to hire airplanes to deliver electric harnesses for car production
Well done Patrick. Good video explaining the disparity between paper wealth and reality. One thing isn't understood (using Apple as an example; I'm sure all the other companies do the same) : Say Apple sells an iPhone in the USA and makes $500 profit. Does Apple actually move that $500 into Ireland and pay the (low) tax there, or just reporting to Ireland their $500 profit? If the latter, the Irish politicians are just sitting there happy to collect 2% ($10) on that sale as free money rolling in? Truly, that can disappear any time. Maybe they should require the actual transfer of that money... but then Apple would have no money to pay their USA and China employees, who actually made that iPhone. LOL
Irish GDP is a fake, cheating with lower corporate tax rates and attracting companies like Apple to tax in Ireland (to in fact evade taxes) is just a manipulation and is not changing anything in country's economy which is very weak. Ireland has not invented anything as it is technologically underdeveloped, never produced a any car, which is the first sign of technological status. Technology goods are not even produced in Ireland, they are just re-packaged in Ireland to get the EU stamp and evade taxes. Irish economy is a joke and germany will sooner or later close this circus. Criminal developers and corrupted government are hand in hand pushing young generation to emigrate abroad so this will end up in a total disaster.
I was just in Ireland and listened to all the phone one following last week's budget. Family's distraught because they couldn't afford school uniforms and wanting to claim for their children's shoes........ A mass exit of professionals who cannot afford a house. Not quite the picture painted here?
I spent 3 years in Dublin and although the locals are super friendly and welcoming, the problems with lack of infrastructure and housing crisis were truly shocking. The cost of living vs income level simply does not make sense…
I honestly don’t know how anyone can Ford to live in Dublin. Average salary is about 85% of that for the UK for my company but house prices in Dublin are about 50% higher again than London.
Indeed. Infrastructure in Ireland is third tier. Their electric showers are a good example. What a joke. Electricity prices are also insane. Internet slow and expensive. List goes on.
Capitals rarely represent countries. They really only represent capitals in general. Moving to any capital without a six figure salary awaiting you is a good way to get poor
@@NorthernContrarianInternet in Dublin is not slow. Standard residential connections these days are 500Mb-1Gb. Rural Ireland doesn't have the same reliability, but urban Ireland is plenty fast
Well done, probably the most factual and unbiased explanation of the Irish economy and tax system I have seen. Before everyone that is reading this decides that they are emigrating to Ireland unfortunately our governments have never figured out how to get value for money when funding public services nor used the revenues its received to fund major infrastructural projects such as roads, hospitals, schools etc. We might appear to be a richer country than yours, but for most living in Ireland the cost of living is far higher than you probably experience. If you still decide to come don't forget to bring a tent. The decades of under investment in social housing and a government that encouraged and allowed vulture funds to buy up massive amounts of property after the financial crash now means that there simply is not enough rental properties on the market at a price that the typical worker can afford. (liked and subscribed 👍)
could you please do more content relating to Ireland? You explain things so well and do incredibly thorough research, it would be great to hear more about what's going on here without having to filter through a load of noise and personal opinions
24:01 - There is no general government debt, at least not in the traditional sense. There is private, corporate debt that was moved onto tax payer (in return for lower wages, higher unemployment, reduced funding of social programs and etc). Aka, socialized losses.
I recently took a job in Melbourne on a similar salary to the one I was in Dublin (~100k). My rent has gone from a third of my salary to a sixth, and my overall living expenses vs salary has decreased dramatically. I love Ireland and would love to move back, but when you make twice the average salary and can’t even imagine owning a home it’s a non runner
Excellent video. Really enjoyed. It's rare to find one nowadays that doesn't just talk about some kind of Irish exceptionalism and focuses on the cold, hard facts.
Patrick specifically talked about thousands of Irish citizens leaving in 1993 for work as a point of reference compared to net returns in 1998. I met Irish nurses who took good paying jobs in Saudi Arabia in 1994-95. I am thrilled the Irish have opportunities at home close to family and schoolmates.
The problem in Ireland today is not that there are a lack of jobs, but there are a serious lack of places to live. Residential building has not kept up at all with population growth, and these days many nurses leave because of the difficulty finding somewhere to live.
People have always been Ireland's greatest export and that will always continue. The average Irish person is not better off now then they were in the 90s, in fact like everyone else they have went backwards - prices of things like housing and food are astronomical now and the average person is breaking under that strain. Ireland seems rich because so many corporations have used it as a tax haven while employing few people directly and paying very little (if anything) in taxes. Ireland will not be able to keep up this facade forever and when it crumbles Ireland will be in a worse state then it ever was because it is essentially doing nothing to prepare for this future.
I own my own company in Ireland, as an Irishman and it's been absolutely amazing. We were an extremely poor country but the improvements in the last three decades have been fantastic
I remember being a kid in the 80s. Endless strikes, no one young was working, Dublin was crumbling. Ballsbridge and beyond was derelict with the exception of a handful of houses. Loads were converterted bedsits. Then boom. I love my little slice of the world. ❤
@@atix50 It's hard now, but it's far better then what it once was. So glad to see my city improve from like you said, the 80s, when the docklands and quays were in ruins and the inner city was derelict. Now everyone in my family and extended family have amazing opportunities like going to college and this Erasmus thing I never got the chance to do. It's just simply amazing
Hey Patrick. I just want to say I've really been enjoying your channel. I think your dry wit is really fitting when it comes to economics, there's so much ridiculous with the economy, but in the end, we're all just kind of going with it. I've always been interested in economics and tech companies, but there's so much in that space that doesn't make any sense. Dollars just seem to appear out of nowhere in silicon valley, and I always knew there was something fishy, but I'm not educated enough to really know for sure. In the process of watching your SBF takedowns, I'm starting to learn a little more how our society really works, learning much more about what the modern-day corporation does, the absurdity of company valuations, what "liquidity" is. It's been very educational and I hope I can form some better informed opinions based on what you taught me. I'm sure you'd probably say I'm not even close to understanding the world, and I'd agree, but I'll keep tuning in and seeing what you have to say, I'd love to hear it.
I'd recommend Patrick's video "The Rise And Fall Of Blitzscaling!" if you haven't watched it already, it covers what you mentioned about the absurdity of company valuations and other things.
I tried to get a job in Ireland recently. I was told my middle class pay is not enough for getting a decent flat next to the workplace. I gpt lucky, they did not hire me.
Property prices dropping like a stone in Wales here. Can get a two bed house for about 120k. Seems to have dropped a quarter behind people's backs, in plain sight. Knew it was coming.
@@huwzebediahthomas9193not gonna happen in Ireland. Banks cut mortgage lending so much that unlike the UK most of the buyers here are Investment funds, Foreigners, or the Government.
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 I wish i could buy a house for 120k in Finland! lol That probably can get you a 20sq2 old apartment in a really bad neighbourhood.
I have never understood how a country where, businesses pay almost no taxes and residents are forced to live in rat cages, with a near-zero public system and forced to pay everything at full price from dawn to dusk, is considered “rich”. Or that people over 30 are not yet homeowners or are waiting for the death of their parents/grandparents to finally afford a house or apartment. Who gets rich here? Businesses in Ireland or the Irish?
And then you go to Ireland and realize the infrastructure is crumbling, public transit is a pure joke compared to the rest of Europe, and people live in obscenely expensive shoeboxes. But hey, at least the corporate overlords are happy.
It has nothing to do with corporate overlords. Ireland is a high tax economy and that is most obvious when it comes to car prices when compared to other countries. On average each Irish person is subjected to a near 50% taxation. Until that changes do not surprised at the issues that arise.
@@coyotelong4349 50k salary about 23% income tax. 100k about 37% The more you earn the more you pay, it's a progressive tax system. Very low earners pay almost no income tax.
I had a job that required me to work 3 months of the year in Ireland from 1995-99. There were two things happening that I think really drove their economy. One was they had a very large number of university educated young people with technical degrees AND they offered sweetheart deals to large corporations that were required to have a presence in the EU. I can remember there being more Mercedes sold there per capita than anywhere else. I managed a team of engineers. They were smart, worked hard and wanted to succeed. It is no surprise that they are where they are. I live in Canada and am jealous that our govt is driving us down the drain rather than building the country.
It's important to note WHY they had so many educated people - the government would pay their tuition and give them a living wage to go to school. The engineers were a minority - there were a lot of graduates in things like liberal arts because a lot of people didn't actually expect to be employed after graduation. You are also glossing over the handouts that the EU provided Ireland as an incentive to join - it's very easy to build an economy when you are flooded with so much free money. Patrick was incorrect when he said that Ireland wanted to decouple from the UK to marry its fortunes with the EU economy, Ireland wanted to be a EU welfare state. The EU offered Ireland far more money to leave the UK then the UK could spend to keep them.
@@michaelstanley5215eh, the republic of Ireland left the UK a few generations before joining the EU/EEC. If you just mean decoupling further then yeah, but what would you expect a country to do in that situation. Ireland is a net contributer to the EU. I dont understand your gripe. I understand people getting annoyed about multinationals accounting tricks but that is a different matter.
@@rherydrevins They do earn from refining oil and manufacturing chemicals from oil. But the value added of the entire chemicals sector is only 4% of GDP.
Bankers were jailed in Ireland following the 2008 financial crisis. Former Anglo Irish Bank CEO David Drumm was sentenced to six years in prison for his role in a bank fraud scheme in 2008 In addition, former Irish Life and Permanent Chief Executive Denis Casey was sentenced to two years and nine months following a 74-day criminal trial, Ireland’s longest ever. Willie McAteer, former finance director at the failed Anglo Irish Bank, and John Bowe, its ex-head of capital markets, were given sentences of 42 months and 24 months respectively...
yes, but people who were involved in audits and stress tests of anglo irish at the time leading to subprime crisis of 2008 are now in senior managerial positions in banking. so its just a few scape goats.
Jailing bankers who made mistakes just makes angry people feel better but does not address the real issues of the time. Irish government finances in that era were horrible. There was a point that the government got caught spending 50 billion per year but was only taking in 30 billion in taxes. There are still problems today such as road taxes taking in about 4 billion per year but the budgets for the roads is only about 1.5 billion and then people wonder why the roads are so bad.
@@millevenon5853 Why should people be jailed for making mistakes in a job. No body talks about jailing county council workers who make mistakes or HSE front line staff. People were angry at the time but for all the wrong reasons. By the way the exact same thing could happen again only it would be an entirely different work force.
I love this. I have worked in global finance for almost 20 years, and someone from my company tried explaining the Ireland thing. This video does a much better job. *smashes SUBSCRIBE button*
Very good video. - A bit off point but I wish we were using the budget surpluses to fix the housing crisis and improve the health service. The cost of either buying a home or renting is unaffordable for many and it's a massive chunk out of most people's income. It means companies have to offer higher and higher wages to entice workers. Corporation tax is probably going to harmonised throughout the EU. We need to look at how we can keep Ireland as attractive a base for companies as possible, even without a tax advantage. We should be doing all we can to reduce the cost of living here and fixing the housing crisis would really help.
So do I while conspiratorial I believe that the government don't necessarily see fixing the housing crisis as within their interest as fixing the crisis is going to cause massive deflation to the housing market as the supply/demand curve fixes itself suddenly leaving a massive amount of people in negative equity or seeing maybe 40% sliced off the value of their homes. That plus the recent surge in people deciding that small amounts of investment properties are a viable retirement strategy. Suddenly the government will make a lot of their core voter base angry and believe they would have a very hard time getting elected for a while
@@darragho6358 But fixing the housing crisis should involve measures for dealing with houses that will go into negative equity when house prices fall. One thing we could do would be for the government to buy distressed loan portfolios from the banks at a discount - and then pass those discounts on to the mortgage holders. So while homeowners would see a drop in the value of their home, they would have a reduced mortgage to pay back, and the cost of paying rent for their child who has gone to college in another part of the country would also be lower. If done right, it would be hugely popular with voters. It just wouldn't be popular with the large institutional investors in our property market.
@@darragho6358I wouldn't even say that's "conspiratorial". It's pretty much blatantly obvious. FFGs main voter base are largely older property owners. The electoral reality for them makes it impossible to actually solve the housing crisis. "Vote for us, we're going to tank the value of your home by 40% by flooding the market with supply" Yeah, that's not going to happen.
I knew what this was about when I read the title. As a sidenote: this is the reason the backlog for European privacy cases against Big Tech is gigantic. Ireland got saddled with the EU's GDPR authority over all these multinationals and it's overwhelming.
Irish GDP is a fake, cheating with lower corporate tax rates and attracting companies like Apple to tax in Ireland (to in fact evade taxes) is just a manipulation and is not changing anything in country's economy which is very weak. Ireland has not invented anything as it is technologically underdeveloped, never produced a any car, which is the first sign of technological status. Technology goods are not even produced in Ireland, they are just re-packaged in Ireland to get the EU stamp and evade taxes. Irish economy is a joke and germany will sooner or later close this circus. Criminal developers and corrupted government are hand in hand pushing young generation to emigrate abroad so this will end up in a total disaster.
@@Fudmottin Sounds good. May have got it wrong about importing. The Aran Sweater Market is the big company supplying many tourist outlets but secretive about exactly where they are made, claiming Ireland but not specifying where. Given the quantities very unlikely to be made on the Aran Islands or hand-knitted, despite suggestive carefully worded text on their advertising, but they probably do special lines of hand-loomed sweaters too. Some locals probably still do them by hand-knitting. "Well wear!" as we say here to someone with a new garment.
@@sean_d My late grandmother used to knit sweaters. This has that look, but I'm sure a machine could duplicate it well enough to fool me. It does have particular care instructions. No tossing that into a washing machine! LOL. Thanks!
I worked at a major financial institution that built its global trading infrastructure around an Irish incorporated bank. We had a huge back office in Dublin, starting in the early 1990s, and very good relations with the Central Bank of Ireland. It was a huge component of our ability to embrace new product, efficient tax structures, reliable settlement and effective investigations. I realize that there isn’t a great sharing of wealth from this kind of activity and we were benefiting from legal and political arbitrage but that Dublin operation was a significant relative advantage for our institution. I hope the high tide is lifting all boats now.
@@Art-is-craftyet real income has massively been decreasing in this country for years and the unemployment rates post 2008 have been manipulated by part time work zero hour contracts. Yes we created jobs through the austerity but the figures are there that those jobs were not meaningful
It worked in the past under lemass but the system fails as production has changed in the last 60 years. Suddenly the necessary labour in comparison to production is very low so given the level of tax breaks we create we don't create anywhere near the same level of employment we did in the past.
I distinctly remember that when I set up my PayPal account, it was some middle aged Irish woman who performed the KYC call. She was very pleasant. Never actually used the account (debit cards exist), but I 've always remembered it as a benchmark for the level of customer service I want my business to provide.
@@AcidOlliehaha good one. One of the worst level of customer service in Europe. Try speaking to any one in retail or civil service. Shocking. I’m Irish and lived in multiple countries and currently living in Ireland
Moral of the story: The country showing best GDP does not mean that country is livable for regular people. And any Government of any country does not give damn about their own people
Thanks very much, Patrick. This message needs to be heard everywhere. It's not working anymore, printing money out of thin air and favouring corporation over people, while repressing savers and rewarding speculators.
@@kerimgueney Not at all. The countries can enforce taxation policies that do not allow companies to do this. As Patrick said in the video, Apple told congress what reform could be done so they would pay tax in the US, the US chose not to do implement it.
The real estate is the problem, which is an artificial creation of the government due to anti landlord and anti build regulations. If that’s fixed it’s blue skies for Ireland (not literally)
@@flamaros1987 the population is uneducated and poor. the youth is out of control, they are either drug addicts or criminals or both. the public does not trust the central government. sometimes you feel like you are living in a medieval mountain and there is no order. a vast number of people are frauding the government with welfare schenanigans, and they have been doing it for at least 2 generations. the greed of the wealthy and the anger of the poor is clearly visible when you walk on the streets, especially in the central dublin. unless they do something to fix the wealth inequality by punishing greed, ireland won't last long. the indirect effects of the big companies like 40% payroll taxes will disappear when no one wants to live in ireland and work for these companies. irish people are proud, unlike the governments, they won't admit that they depend on these companies and their foreign workers. but they absolutely do and unless they educate their already not properly educated population into qualified workers to replace them they will lose in the metrics outside gdp too.
@papi8659 yes but Ireland's literally has like 700 houses available to rent and there was this house viewing that went viral why because the land owner allowed anyone who wants to come go to the house and view and didn't expect what would happen next so people did and for this one house viewing over 100 people came Before Sunrise to see this one house that picture is just exemplar of the housing crisis that we are deal with it's common for a foreign students to get accepted into an Irish University and then they would have to go home because there's literally no space in student accommodation and as soon as you can't get that there's no way you can get a place to live outside the uni unless you're willing to commute with a car from rural area so you might as well just go home especially as a student because landlords are getting so many applications that they only pick the perfect people and don't bother with less than the ideal tenant they literally have like 200 people and over to pick from
Thanks to our growing list of Patreon Sponsors and Channel Members for supporting the channel. www.patreon.com/PatrickBoyleOnFinance : Paul Rohrbaugh, Marc De Mesel, Nate Stapleton,Timothy Baird, WIlam, Hernan Merino, Random Encounter, Nieuwsbrief Ikwil, Bee Positive Consulting, hyunjung Kim, John Cadena, Ian Tracey, Callum McLean, Oscar, Simon Pena, Ed, Erik Van Ekelenburg, David O'Connor, Pjotr Bekkering, Alex, Robert W Proudfoot, Andre Michel, Ivan Iliev, Gopaljee Atulya, Mark Hooker, Artem Vasenin, Sebastian, Michal Lacko, Peter Bočan, Michael Pierce, V Jordan, Gil, Mark Brophy, David Urdenata, Juan Valdez, Bruce Roberts, Chad Norman, Bruce Roberts, Shamikh Rana, Friday Guy, Marc De Mesel, Augusto Ramos, Soy Boomer Doomer, Bob Slartabartfast, Robert Feiler, Camil Dbouk, Erik Montesinos, Matthew Loos, Az Indragiri, Aman Bali, Lautaro Parada, Pratap, Deborah Joseph, Robin Sung, Kurt Johnston, Dominik Auerbach, Gurmeet Kaushal, John Hall, Dara Mo, Josef Goergen, Wilbert Cheng, Jaroslav Tupý, Trevor Lucey JB Weld, Alex, Carlos Figuera, Peter Pomelov, Null065, Rick Thor, MeBerzerk, Henry Nguyen, Sola F, The Collier, Carlos Mejia, J Wadia, Bitcoin OG, easy boekhouding, Albert, Eugene Jung, Daniel Cervini, Jonathon Yong, Iris Ji, Emil Nicolaie Perhinschi, Charles, Eli Auto, Excks, Michael Li, Par Hedman, Praveen Mishra, Gerard Scott, joel köykkä, Areeb Ahmed, David Wang, Rodolfo Cornetti, Daniel Winroth, johnny, Nick Jerrat, Chris Houston, Alastair Currie, Robert Griffin, Andrei, zizi Golo, Fab Vida, Constantin Petrenco, pawel irisik, NotAScam, James Halliday, 22 Dust, Carsten Baukrowitz, Heinrich, Arron T, Ben Brown, Stephen Mortimer (to The Moon), Ryan B. Hicks, Liam, Logan Vrankovic, William Heaton, Paul McCourt, Daniel, Aaryan Koura, Christopher Boersma, Ulf Lundblad, Dorothy Watson, Greg Blake, Simon Bone, Livermores Quant, The Collier Report, Scott Gardner, The Man Koala, Brian McCullough, Finance Student, Julie, Mohammad Rehman, James Wallace, Daniel Poellmann, Edosa Odigie, Dixon Yuen, Marek Novák, Stamatis Drepaniotis Michael Smith, Ahmed Hamadto, Chris Davey, Mike Farmwald, Michael A. Mayo, Lachezar Georgiev, Bradley Johnson, Sagar Gudi, Michael Chessar, Kate ATL, Tong Cheung, Lady Dje, James Barnes, Chris Hall, Kurt Johnston, ICBM Catcher Juan Valdes, Linn Engström, Veltsh, Konrad P-kala, Pastacat, Adam Vorting, Matthew McQuade, Christopher Lesner, freebird, Kenneth WedMore Lund, erfective, Jason Young, Jonathan Kopnick, Peter Hendrickson, steel, Bastien, Tom Willett, Chris Whitehead, Anil Jason, JOJO, Greg Thatcher, Ezekiel Templin, MrLuigi1138, Leszek Frankowski, Nam Nguyen, Karim THIBAULT, C, David R. Ingemi, Robert Wave, Dmitri Alexeev, Aaron Rose, Ethan Hernandez, Claude Chevroulet, Stephan Marosvary, Louis Julien, Jan Lukas Kiermeyer, Gearoid O Connor, Fredrick Saupe, Subliminal Transformation, Alex McMahon, Adi, Ben, Kurt Mueller, Janusz Wieczorek, Federico Viscomi, Corgi, Mahdi, Quinn Cone, QiKaiQian, Stephen, Joshua Rosenthal, Michael Smith, Emilian Marius Tudor, Cormac, Ian Shearer, Michael Kopřiva, Tinni, Goran Milivojevic, Joe Del Vicario, Alexandre Mah, Norman A. Letterman, maRiano polidoRi, Stephan Prinz, Gary Yrag, Mattia Midali, Matthew Berry, Jay T, Gabor, Shivendra Saklani, Zachary Tu, Jeffrey, Lane Alan Deyoe, Chett Flynn Jonathan Horn, Mo Herbert, Justin Thuet, Olaf Thiele, Todd Gross, Douglas Caldwell, Wade Hobbs, Volodymyr Palii, James Hoctor, Gavotti SGP, Ryne Davis, Jean-Philippe Lemoussu, Keanu Thierolf, Michael Chow, Stefan Alexander, Miroslav Ognyanov, Scott Guthery, Arto Karhu, James Bache, Jason Harner, Dale Patch, Stefan Penner, Arvid, Eric, Jonathan Metter, John Way, Maria Baker, Sharath Vulupala, Keith Elkin, Chris Nicholl, Luis Carmona, Vinci Chan, Olivier, Yasha, James Yoh, Eduardo Martinez, Adi Blue, Swain Gant, georgejr, hyeora, old gambling art bag, Boussaken, Vik, Chris Albertson, Sprite_tm, matt f, Douglas Caldwell, Adgn, Chris Rock, Tuan Nguyen Minh, Daniel Baak, Jeremy King, Julien Debache, M1, Dougald Middleton, Tom, Diarmuid Kelly, Gregory Mahoney, Angelo Rauseo, Ryne Davis, Anne Molphy, Ekaterina Lukyanets, Alfred, sugarfrosted, Okkie, Larry, Sarah, miilo, Alexandre GUYAMIER-CROISSANT, Alex C, Henk S, Noel Kurth, John Tran, Daniel Soderberg, Daniel Ralea, Steve Crotti, Shaun Deanesh, DaFlesh, Dominique Buri, Manmeet Sheera, Stephen Walker, Richard Stagg, Bo Grünberger, Justin Sublette, R, Paul Twilley, 인기 김, Louis Görtz, Arjun K.S, josef strand, Simon Crosby, Alex Do, Minnah seoh, Jacob Snedaker, Edgar De Sola, Izidor Vetrih, WhiskeyTuesday, Compuart, Felix Goroncy, Nick Top, Anita Mui, C.J. Christie, lazypikachu23, Olivia Ney, Steven, Jordan Millar, Reagan Glazier, Viki Rebic, Adrian, KoolJBlack, Deborah R. Moore, Alonso Ibarra, Dru Hill, Dean Maurer, Tim Jamison, gavin, Ultramagic, HEWHOSHALLNOTBENAMED, Nigel Knight, Daniel Winroth, Paul Niekamp, Job Zamora, Zhnjy, Brian K. Lee, Tony Bianucci, storm, scott johnson, Agatha DeStories, Chris Peterson, Nesh Hassan, Molly Carr, Christan, Michael Jones, Ross P, Conor Rainey, Milos Krljanovic, Richard Hagen, Nicholas Muller, Adam Stickney, Peter Weiden, RVM, Brainless, Marcio Andreazzi, Yih Pin, Ziad Azam, STEPHEN INGRAM, Michael Wilson, Daan Jetten, Ivan Katanic, Benjamin, Boris Azais, Flanneryo, Paul Hilscher, Manuel Barkhau, Earnest Williams, Harun Akyürek, Dionysis Partsinevelos, toufik ouriachi, Maximiliano Rios, Claire Walsh, AT, Atanas Atanasov, William J. Murphy, Tom Eccles, Matthew Lang, Fernanda Alario, nishil, Alfred Tagher, Ulf Lundblad, Weijie Diao, Dave Jones, Matthew Colter, Alan Medina, Georgios Kontogiannis, M, Kirandeep Kaur, Charles, William Ching, Omer Secer, Clement Schoepfer, A M, Ivo Stoicov, Wade Hobbs, Sam Freed, DesuuDesuu, Oliver Goemans, ML, Kalimero Eric Holloman, waziam, Saaientist, DebsMO, Mike Pearce, Andrew Backer, David Kavanagh, Piotr Klos, JAG, Stonks, Yura Vladimirovitch, Artiom Casapu, Davíð Örn Jóhannesson, Anna, M G, Jacob Warbrick, Jessie Chiu, gurbans, Eric Bowden, Michael Green, james Brummel, Sahil Kumar, Huxky, Deb-Deb, David Swastek, Fly Girl, D F CICU, michael briggs, Dakota Jones, Stephen Fotos, David Nguyen, Bill Walsh, eliott, Ignacio David Palladino, Meee, Bolutife Ogunsuyi, Mihai, Tomislav Kožić, Max Macial, Thomas Foster, D Vidot, Reginald Gilbert, Brian W. Bush, korede oguntuga Zoe Nolan, TheGabornator, Erik Johansson, Shaun Alexander, Martin Esser, Old Ulysses, Nay Lin Tun, e_mister-t, Hong Phuc Luong Rolf-Are Åbotsvik, Viktor Nilsson, Daniel Taylor, Kirk Naylor-Vane John Martin, Heather Meeker, Martin Dráb, Gautham Chandra, Chan Mun Kay, Tom, Julien Leveille, Sean Wheeler, yuiop qwerty, Kerry McClain Paye Mann, Tom Sinnott, Mr Dietsam, Alexander List, Joshua Ivan Chong Jay-Quallin Bbalake, Ningli Wang, Ahmad Murshidi, LoOP, Mithun Choudhary, Gavin Gallagher, Milanka Vasiljević, LT Marshall and Yoshinao Kumaga
As an Irish person, i can't say Ireland is not a tax haven of sorts, but the difference with Ireland is that pretty much all the companies that use Ireland for tax purposes also set up in Ireland and employee thousands of people. This could not be said to be the case for the other so called tax heavens around the world. Also a lot of Irelands prosperity before and after the crash is driven by governments that set up an education system the was pretty much tailored to educating a work force to work in all these companies. Ever other country if free to follow the Irish model
If every country followed Ireland's model it would ruin their taxes. It is only working for Ireland because they can attract the businesses looking to avoid taxes in their actual home countries, which when added up can still be a lot of money even at Ireland's low tax rate (and especially compared to Ireland's relatively modest population). If other countries took Ireland's model and then those companies returned home, it would be disastrous for Ireland and wouldn't benefit the other countries very much either. It'd be a race to the bottom.
@@damienmc9973 I'm aware they do employ people but it comes no where close to generating that much additional GDP. And whatever they do is irrelevant, the question is if they dodge higher taxes somewhere else that way. Purely from an operational standpoint it makes no sense to do it all in Ireland, a more central location in Europe would make more sense for that. And no, they can't follow the Irish model. If everyone lowers their taxes then no place is more attractive anymore and they'll just stay where it's more convenient
I live in the Netherlands. The country scores quite high in various “rich country” rankings. Well, the truth is that 75% of the rental market is social housing. Something isn’t right here.
I thought that was one of the best things about the Netherlands actually. I friend of mine immigrated there in a quite good job, and he told me without any shame that loads of people he knows are on government housing. But I'm not from there. So if anyone knows any better I'd love to hear it.
@@FederalPandas well the good thing is everyone has some housing (not this won't apply to the expats but mostly to locals; expats pay the full price, of course). But I put it in a contrast with the headline - if the country is so rich, why there are so many poor people that they can't even pay for their own housing?
@@FederalPandas social housing seems to mean everyone is generally better off. There's no series of middle man taking a cut so everyone has more disposable income which gets spent on local business. It's exactly the same as Singapore where about 80% is also social housing and they've also got great economy.
Kindly do a segment on Poland growth. Also Indonesia-if it could be an Asian Powerhouse. Then Morocco for Africa and finally Mexico for the American continent. These countries are touted to grow as US firms shift operations from China to these areas and chip firms like Intel are building plants in Poland and Ireland.
Honestly I'd love to see a video from you on why the US doesn't have it's own sovereign wealth fund, as it would on paper align with nearly everyone's preferences; a free market solution to the lack of social services, paid for via investments in the economy rather than through straight taxation.
Because the US would artificially manipulate markets (even more than it already does) simply by using its financial institutions. A US sovereign wealth fund would literally break markets.
@@aarzu10This is the correct answer. At best the US sovereign wealth fund could be a passive investor. Any activist investment like other SWFs would be too politically charged. Even passive investment would be accused of favoring big businesses.
I’m an Engineer and have never had any interest in finance or economics until I discovered Patrick’s channel. He makes the concepts interesting and easy to understand. Although I would like to hear more about rap music.
I would have hoped for some breakdown of salaries. After all, a country is made by people, right? Regardless of whether the above is right or wrong, it would have given more context and helped explain some of its problems.
The infrastructure money he refers to is from the early 90s known as EU structural funds for the development of impoverished regions of the EU. Frankly, Ireland makes a mess of alot of things but those funds were well spent on our first major dual carriageway Road network, which has literally transformed the country...just fyi
@@Finderskeepers. I don't know of any. I think the economic activities of an entire country are way too complex to be captured by a single (or few) metrics. But I know comparing countries based on GDP is pointless.
@@b3arwithm3 That's the point, we dont have a better measurement yet. But yeah GDP with other measurements hand in hand can paint a better picture. GDP is still an important measurement but needs to be with other data too to make more sense.
@@Finderskeepers. Median salary. Not average, that is also useless. Median salary will give a proper ideia of what the normal person gets. And that will always be a proportion of the real economy quality.
During a visit to Ireland in 2023, as I walked around Dublin and Cork, I thought the places looked fairly prosperous but they did not have a really affluent look to them and neither did the people I saw in the streets. Amsterdam, Munich, Vienna, Copenhagen and Oslo were cities I visited and they all had a more affluent look to them.
I'd love to see how much the Irish people actually benefit from schemes like this versus the benefits in profit and shareholder dividend increase these massive corporations get from doing them. All I see online is unhappy Irish folk, in particular the effect that second home buyers and airbnb owners have had on the housing market. If everything becomes more expensive for the people living there because of stuff like this and the government does nothing to rebalance this then overall what benefit is there apart from kickbacks for politicians and PR headlines.
I think a lot of the complaints around housing stem from irelands planning laws. At the moment it is quite difficult, and expensive to build large scale developments which are really what’s needed at the moment to increase supply. The benefits to the Irish people are really employment and above average salaries. US companies employ enormous number of people both directly and indirectly. The tax they generated has also helped the government to decrease tax on employees and increase benefits over the last years
We can probably say this - outside of the oil rich states (Norway, UAE) and the city states (Monaco etc), Ireland has probably the wealthiest government in the world, with budget surpluses predicted for years into the future. But a rich government does not mean a rich population, although the money does trickle down somewhat. There is a large affluent population making a good living from working in those multinationals (particularly in south Dublin) but the majority of the rest of the country and the working class are really struggling with the costs. It's a tough one - do we want lots of jobs and high costs, or few jobs and low costs. Hard to have both lots of jobs and low costs at the same time - in fact you probably need a "slave" population of minimum wage workers to make that happen.
We have a "slave" minimum wage (or near minimum wage) worker class already. Remember all those retail workers? Those 'essential' workers that people tried to virtue signal to at the height of the pandemic? Those people. Give them a pat on the back. Increase their wages? Help them afford their own accommodation? Fuck no. That patronising 'appreciation' disappeared pretty fucking quickly let me tell you. Not that it was ever real in the first place.
The iPhone really did come from Ireland. It is named for the book “I Robot” Which in turn is named for the book “I Claudius” Which in turn is named for the irish poem “mise Raifteiri”
Three companies paying a third of corporate tax revenue in a country that depends on that revenue for basic services like healthcare sounds risky to me. If a business looked at its books and realized that a third of their revenue came from just three customers, they'd need to think about how to diversify their sources of income, or risk having the loss of even one of those "big three" throw them from profit to loss. The people who really run things in the US don't want to tax corporations to fund healthcare for Americans, but we're willing to have tax laws that reward companies for sending profits to countries that do so for their own citizens.
I was hoping for a more in depth look on the social implications of this "miracle". Was the life of the average Irish citizen changed for the better? Did the citizens see any benefit from this rise?(others ,not those employed by big tech-who are few in any case,like Apple employing just 1 person in Ireland to run their "offices") What is the best way forward for the Irish, and how dangerous is this dependency on big corporations?
The best way for Ireland to lower that dependency is to develop a local economy that is internal. The best means of doing that is to move to a lower tax economy. Lowering vat and income tax would achieve that. At the same time prsi could be increased and usc could be changed.
about 10 years ago i remember seeing articles saying that Ireland was offering $200,000 US for anyone who wanted to move to Ireland and start a business that would eventually employ at least 10 people. i seriously considered going for it, but felt my business plan was not that great. plus i had elderly family i could not leave.
its striking, considering that the native irish population was really struggling at that time with high unemployment, delinquencies and bankruptcies. somehow western governments and companies always prefer giving jobs and money to foreigners. i am wondering why is that?
@@bigbarry8343you are wondering why incentives were being given for individuals to set up companies that created a minimum amount of jobs while unemployment was high...
@@bigbarry8343 seems Ireland wanted to increase GDP and employment of Irish citizens. why they did not offer 200K to their own citizens? i don't know. there are foreigners living for free in my neighborhood, and they are not required to start a business nor employ anyone. it is very frustrating. at least Ireland was asking for something in return.
The Commission didn't fine Apple. It found that Ireland had given illegal and incompatible State aid in favour of Apple and the Ireland had to recover the tax amount it would have received had it provided Apple with such favoutqble tax rulings.
It's funny I was actually visiting Ireland when this video came out, and nearly the same day I was talking to the guide in the Cathedral in Limerick about how I'd seen cranes absolutely everywhere. He pointed to just how small the country is. Yeaj weve done pretty good for out little small nation, but we're just not a big player, was his attitude. Even at 5 million, Ireland has a population less than Michigan or British Columbia. And therein lies the rub. Ireland is playing a zero-sum game in its wealth building. Wealth generated by most of the world's iPhones is going to benefit a very small population tremendously, at the cost of much more revenue to much larger states. The problem is simply that it doesn't work if everyone does it.
I, an American, have an Irish co-worker who has nothing good to say about Irish government. He failed to find work after graduating and ended up in the US about a decade ago. Still, I remember 20+ years ago when everyone in the US saw Ireland as a perpetual basket case on poverty and civil strife. So, progress!
If he was trying to get a job a decade ago it was during a recession. Jobs were hard to come by for a few years, but it had already turned around by 2015. Bad timing most likely.
In my opinion, and with respect to Apple, it was crappy transfer pricing regulation allowing Apple to not pay tax anywhere in any one nation. That's against the spirit of the intent of OECD BEPS directive. But it also reflects the low quality of OECD committees and representatives. Their public meetings, for example, are a joke.
It seems like it wouldn't be that hard for the U.S. to nail them for tax fraud either. I am not sure how they can claim to be Irish on one tax form of one country and then not Irish on another tax form of another country. If Ireland doesn't consider Apple to be an Irish resident/ corporate citizen, then they shouldn't be able to claim it on their American tax filings. Pretty straight forward.
Also because of Brexit a lot of UK companies HQ their EU subsidiaries in Ireland because the laws and no language barriers. So the revenue flows through Ireland but practically no headcount or positive economic benefits.
Patrick, I would love to see a video about multinationals, wealthy countries' Double Tax Treaties, and the way they are used to deprive developing economies of taxes. The UK is so bad with this
I havent watched one second and to answer the question, it depends who ypu ask. The single professional man whose on €45,000 but struggling to afford his flat and bills in Dublin would say no but the unemployed man with 4 kids on welfare that lives in a 4 bed semi which he doesnt even pay his rent on but will never be kicked out by the council anyway would probably say yes.
So get on the welfare then. There's no point in you crying about people being on benefits and doing better than you when you choose to get shafted up the rear by your employer. You'll soon find yourself shocked at what a struggle being on benefits is.
Just bought 2 mars bars yesterday in dunnes to help GDP. On a side note eating 2 mars bars will effect my health which will put more pressure on our healthcare system, but short term expect good GDP numbers
The opposite. If countries were incentivised to drive down their tax rates and cut regularatory red tape, both costs which are passed on to the consumer, that would make their products cheaper for said consumer. Regularatory costs also massively benefit large multinationals who can easier afford to pay them while penalising smaller companies. Less onerous regulation lowers the cost of entry into the market, meaning more competition which is better for the consumer. Point being, the world would be significantly richer if trade were less restricted. That's exactly what the post WWII history shows. Poverty has gone down in concert with a decline trade restrictions.
When targeting a few huge multionationals which Ireland is arguably doing, sure... But low tax rates do not equal to having just certain businesses flocking to you.. It obviously also generates new business. I would have a business if the social tax on doing it in my country wouldn't be so high and getting even higher. Whether it would be profitable is another matter.
I agree. Ireland is essentially stealing tax receipts from other countries. Anyone who thinks the low corporation tax would work by stimulating local business alone, is delusional. As someone who lives in Ireland, I have to say the sustainability of this economy is concerning.
Really great video, Patrick. Definitely makes the cognitive dissonance in the experience of taking a train from Belfast to Dublin make more sense. I wonder where Ireland would really rank in Global GDP, if the distortion were accounted for.
There is no distortion, it’s a real measure. But if you’re referring to purely transactional money that passes through Ireland, it’s generally agreed that a reduction of 20-25% is realistic. Still places Ireland way up the GDP rankings, far ahead of the U.K. in per capita terms.
I think what you actually want is a measure of how well economically the average Irish person is. In that case, you should look at consumption per capita, not GDP per capita. And if you look at that you'll see that Ireland ranks much lower compared to its GDP per capita ranking, probably more close to Spain or Greece.
@@bk1507 a pretty poor measure because that doesn’t include savings where Ireland has the highest rates. It also counts consumption on healthcare where Ireland has one of the lowest spends because of better demographics.
The Irish economy is amazing if you're a millionaire CEO. Normal people are all over this comment section saying they can't afford to exist in their own country.
Yeah they say that, move to Oz for 2-5 years, and then come back bc they realise the grass actually ain’t greener anywhere else. It’s a right of passage for us 🇮🇪 ✈️
@@SilentEireSorry but the grass is greener a lot of the time. I have multiple family members who are living in Australia, and they've flat out told me they will never return to Ireland (other than visit family/friends) Unless you're part of the wealthy privileged class, once you expand your horizons beyond Ireland, you see how small Ireland really is.
Head to brilliant.org/patrick/ to start your free 30-day trial. The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant's annual premium subscription.
Patrick, you visited my country, Malaysia? Why didn't you let me know? I thought we were friends /jk
How was the food?
I can remember that had to rescue Ireland in 2008-2010 when they were bankrupt due to the finance crisis and their gambling.
I bet this will end in the same situation.
In the 80 the EU gave money and german car suppliers moved plants to ireland back then cause I can remember the trouble in the assembly line where the parts were missing cause the irish could not deliver in time. Then they had to hire airplanes to deliver electric harnesses for car production
Well done Patrick. Good video explaining the disparity between paper wealth and reality.
One thing isn't understood (using Apple as an example; I'm sure all the other companies do the same) : Say Apple sells an iPhone in the USA and makes $500 profit. Does Apple actually move that $500 into Ireland and pay the (low) tax there, or just reporting to Ireland their $500 profit? If the latter, the Irish politicians are just sitting there happy to collect 2% ($10) on that sale as free money rolling in? Truly, that can disappear any time. Maybe they should require the actual transfer of that money... but then Apple would have no money to pay their USA and China employees, who actually made that iPhone. LOL
I didn't know the 20mil was struck down. Cheers
Irish GDP is a fake, cheating with lower corporate tax rates and attracting companies like Apple to tax in Ireland (to in fact evade taxes) is just a manipulation and is not changing anything in country's economy which is very weak. Ireland has not invented anything as it is technologically underdeveloped, never produced a any car, which is the first sign of technological status. Technology goods are not even produced in Ireland, they are just re-packaged in Ireland to get the EU stamp and evade taxes. Irish economy is a joke and germany will sooner or later close this circus. Criminal developers and corrupted government are hand in hand pushing young generation to emigrate abroad so this will end up in a total disaster.
Im a young professional Irish man who moved to Spain because I couldn't rent an apartment in my home city Dublin
How are the job opportunities in Spain? What job do you do? Is it easy to make friends?
You loser you can't afford shit
I was just in Ireland and listened to all the phone one following last week's budget. Family's distraught because they couldn't afford school uniforms and wanting to claim for their children's shoes........ A mass exit of professionals who cannot afford a house. Not quite the picture painted here?
@@colinporter7108 is this housing picture any different from anywhere else in the first-world-countries?
@@colinporter7108
I would advise you to look at the situation in the UK.....
I spent 3 years in Dublin and although the locals are super friendly and welcoming, the problems with lack of infrastructure and housing crisis were truly shocking. The cost of living vs income level simply does not make sense…
I honestly don’t know how anyone can Ford to live in Dublin. Average salary is about 85% of that for the UK for my company but house prices in Dublin are about 50% higher again than London.
Indeed. Infrastructure in Ireland is third tier. Their electric showers are a good example. What a joke. Electricity prices are also insane. Internet slow and expensive. List goes on.
Literally copy and paste this for any hamlet, township, city, metro, etc…
Capitals rarely represent countries. They really only represent capitals in general. Moving to any capital without a six figure salary awaiting you is a good way to get poor
@@NorthernContrarianInternet in Dublin is not slow. Standard residential connections these days are 500Mb-1Gb. Rural Ireland doesn't have the same reliability, but urban Ireland is plenty fast
Well done, probably the most factual and unbiased explanation of the Irish economy and tax system I have seen.
Before everyone that is reading this decides that they are emigrating to Ireland unfortunately our governments have never figured out how to get value for money when funding public services nor used the revenues its received to fund major infrastructural projects such as roads, hospitals, schools etc. We might appear to be a richer country than yours, but for most living in Ireland the cost of living is far higher than you probably experience. If you still decide to come don't forget to bring a tent. The decades of under investment in social housing and a government that encouraged and allowed vulture funds to buy up massive amounts of property after the financial crash now means that there simply is not enough rental properties on the market at a price that the typical worker can afford.
(liked and subscribed 👍)
I think the housing issues in Ireland have far more to do with our planning laws than vultures funds and social housing.
Excellent Video Patrick! Thanks super informative and concise with entertaining qualities. Cheers from Cork city. You're the man!
I have been waiting for ever for a great Irish gdp per capita video that puts it all together.
That was brilliant. Thank you so much.
Sub'ed.
Thank you for your informative videos. The clarity with which you convey complicated subjects is amazing.
could you please do more content relating to Ireland? You explain things so well and do incredibly thorough research, it would be great to hear more about what's going on here without having to filter through a load of noise and personal opinions
24:01 - There is no general government debt, at least not in the traditional sense. There is private, corporate debt that was moved onto tax payer (in return for lower wages, higher unemployment, reduced funding of social programs and etc). Aka, socialized losses.
I recently took a job in Melbourne on a similar salary to the one I was in Dublin (~100k).
My rent has gone from a third of my salary to a sixth, and my overall living expenses vs salary has decreased dramatically.
I love Ireland and would love to move back, but when you make twice the average salary and can’t even imagine owning a home it’s a non runner
Excellent video. Really enjoyed. It's rare to find one nowadays that doesn't just talk about some kind of Irish exceptionalism and focuses on the cold, hard facts.
Patrick specifically talked about thousands of Irish citizens leaving in 1993 for work as a point of reference compared to net returns in 1998. I met Irish nurses who took good paying jobs in Saudi Arabia in 1994-95. I am thrilled the Irish have opportunities at home close to family and schoolmates.
The problem in Ireland today is not that there are a lack of jobs, but there are a serious lack of places to live. Residential building has not kept up at all with population growth, and these days many nurses leave because of the difficulty finding somewhere to live.
People have always been Ireland's greatest export and that will always continue. The average Irish person is not better off now then they were in the 90s, in fact like everyone else they have went backwards - prices of things like housing and food are astronomical now and the average person is breaking under that strain. Ireland seems rich because so many corporations have used it as a tax haven while employing few people directly and paying very little (if anything) in taxes. Ireland will not be able to keep up this facade forever and when it crumbles Ireland will be in a worse state then it ever was because it is essentially doing nothing to prepare for this future.
lets not forget about the tax and fees on a lot of stuff, and owning a car is a must to get around anywhere in Ireland.
@@michaelstanley5215that's actually nonsense.
@@RazorMouth It isn't, but certainly inconvenient for you.
I own my own company in Ireland, as an Irishman and it's been absolutely amazing. We were an extremely poor country but the improvements in the last three decades have been fantastic
I remember being a kid in the 80s. Endless strikes, no one young was working, Dublin was crumbling. Ballsbridge and beyond was derelict with the exception of a handful of houses. Loads were converterted bedsits. Then boom. I love my little slice of the world. ❤
@@atix50 It's hard now, but it's far better then what it once was. So glad to see my city improve from like you said, the 80s, when the docklands and quays were in ruins and the inner city was derelict. Now everyone in my family and extended family have amazing opportunities like going to college and this Erasmus thing I never got the chance to do. It's just simply amazing
On the expense of everyone else...
@@PhilippBlum Yeah sorry, I forgot my company in Ireland was destroying your life Philipp Blum, from Germany.
Apple sure likes storing billions of US dollars there tax free, must be great
The tie selection was a nice touch. Great video.
Hey Patrick. I just want to say I've really been enjoying your channel. I think your dry wit is really fitting when it comes to economics, there's so much ridiculous with the economy, but in the end, we're all just kind of going with it. I've always been interested in economics and tech companies, but there's so much in that space that doesn't make any sense. Dollars just seem to appear out of nowhere in silicon valley, and I always knew there was something fishy, but I'm not educated enough to really know for sure. In the process of watching your SBF takedowns, I'm starting to learn a little more how our society really works, learning much more about what the modern-day corporation does, the absurdity of company valuations, what "liquidity" is. It's been very educational and I hope I can form some better informed opinions based on what you taught me. I'm sure you'd probably say I'm not even close to understanding the world, and I'd agree, but I'll keep tuning in and seeing what you have to say, I'd love to hear it.
I'd recommend Patrick's video "The Rise And Fall Of Blitzscaling!" if you haven't watched it already, it covers what you mentioned about the absurdity of company valuations and other things.
Absolutely stunning. What a fantastic video! Appreciate the research and time
I tried to get a job in Ireland recently. I was told my middle class pay is not enough for getting a decent flat next to the workplace. I gpt lucky, they did not hire me.
Property prices dropping like a stone in Wales here. Can get a two bed house for about 120k. Seems to have dropped a quarter behind people's backs, in plain sight. Knew it was coming.
@@huwzebediahthomas9193not gonna happen in Ireland. Banks cut mortgage lending so much that unlike the UK most of the buyers here are Investment funds, Foreigners, or the Government.
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 That wouldn't buy a garage in Ireland
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 I wish i could buy a house for 120k in Finland! lol That probably can get you a 20sq2 old apartment in a really bad neighbourhood.
I have never understood how a country where, businesses pay almost no taxes and residents are forced to live in rat cages, with a near-zero public system and forced to pay everything at full price from dawn to dusk, is considered “rich”. Or that people over 30 are not yet homeowners or are waiting for the death of their parents/grandparents to finally afford a house or apartment. Who gets rich here? Businesses in Ireland or the Irish?
Ireland may have invented the iPhone, but the Netherlands created all of U2's music.
I mean have u2 we don't want them
@@darragho6358 X'D
Seems like U2 are the only ones who can afford to live there.
And then you go to Ireland and realize the infrastructure is crumbling, public transit is a pure joke compared to the rest of Europe, and people live in obscenely expensive shoeboxes. But hey, at least the corporate overlords are happy.
This. So much this. Been there done that. I like Ireland and the Irish but wouldn’t want to live there again.
It has nothing to do with corporate overlords. Ireland is a high tax economy and that is most obvious when it comes to car prices when compared to other countries. On average each Irish person is subjected to a near 50% taxation. Until that changes do not surprised at the issues that arise.
@@Art-is-craft
50% taxation? That’s absurd
@@coyotelong4349
Now not 50% income tax but an accumulation of taxes to include income, sale tax and other taxes.
@@coyotelong4349
50k salary about 23% income tax.
100k about 37%
The more you earn the more you pay, it's a progressive tax system.
Very low earners pay almost no income tax.
I had a job that required me to work 3 months of the year in Ireland from 1995-99. There were two things happening that I think really drove their economy. One was they had a very large number of university educated young people with technical degrees AND they offered sweetheart deals to large corporations that were required to have a presence in the EU. I can remember there being more Mercedes sold there per capita than anywhere else. I managed a team of engineers. They were smart, worked hard and wanted to succeed. It is no surprise that they are where they are. I live in Canada and am jealous that our govt is driving us down the drain rather than building the country.
Dublin looks so Much like Montréal
So Ireland is just a tax heaven which steals other countries taxes
It's important to note WHY they had so many educated people - the government would pay their tuition and give them a living wage to go to school. The engineers were a minority - there were a lot of graduates in things like liberal arts because a lot of people didn't actually expect to be employed after graduation. You are also glossing over the handouts that the EU provided Ireland as an incentive to join - it's very easy to build an economy when you are flooded with so much free money. Patrick was incorrect when he said that Ireland wanted to decouple from the UK to marry its fortunes with the EU economy, Ireland wanted to be a EU welfare state. The EU offered Ireland far more money to leave the UK then the UK could spend to keep them.
@@michaelstanley5215eh, the republic of Ireland left the UK a few generations before joining the EU/EEC. If you just mean decoupling further then yeah, but what would you expect a country to do in that situation. Ireland is a net contributer to the EU. I dont understand your gripe. I understand people getting annoyed about multinationals accounting tricks but that is a different matter.
@@mikeOnTheChoob Who said I had a gripe? You seem to be reading far more into this then actually exists.
Do one for Singapore too! Another country with big sovereign wealth funds but no oil reserves.
They do export a lot of oil, though (look it up). Being located along a major shipping route opens up very unexpected opportunities.
@@rherydrevins They do earn from refining oil and manufacturing chemicals from oil. But the value added of the entire chemicals sector is only 4% of GDP.
That one, I suspect, is a product of a work ethic you can bend horseshoes around and a fairly benevolent, fairly totalitarian leadership structure.
Slave labor helps Singapore a lot.
@@rherydrevins
You mean Singapore trades.
Bankers were jailed in Ireland following the 2008 financial crisis. Former Anglo Irish Bank CEO David Drumm was sentenced to six years in prison for his role in a bank fraud scheme in 2008 In addition, former Irish Life and Permanent Chief Executive Denis Casey was sentenced to two years and nine months following a 74-day criminal trial, Ireland’s longest ever. Willie McAteer, former finance director at the failed Anglo Irish Bank, and John Bowe, its ex-head of capital markets, were given sentences of 42 months and 24 months respectively...
yes, but people who were involved in audits and stress tests of anglo irish at the time leading to subprime crisis of 2008 are now in senior managerial positions in banking. so its just a few scape goats.
Good
Jailing bankers who made mistakes just makes angry people feel better but does not address the real issues of the time. Irish government finances in that era were horrible. There was a point that the government got caught spending 50 billion per year but was only taking in 30 billion in taxes.
There are still problems today such as road taxes taking in about 4 billion per year but the budgets for the roads is only about 1.5 billion and then people wonder why the roads are so bad.
@@Art-is-craftI agree underlying problems must be fixed but normal people would be jailed for making mistakes. Why not bankers?
@@millevenon5853
Why should people be jailed for making mistakes in a job. No body talks about jailing county council workers who make mistakes or HSE front line staff. People were angry at the time but for all the wrong reasons. By the way the exact same thing could happen again only it would be an entirely different work force.
I love this. I have worked in global finance for almost 20 years, and someone from my company tried explaining the Ireland thing. This video does a much better job.
*smashes SUBSCRIBE button*
Could you explain if these companies do not repatriate their profits to the US, what do they do with it and how to pay dividends to US shareholders?
“You can’t just throw around the L word like that “ 😂
😛
Very good video. - A bit off point but I wish we were using the budget surpluses to fix the housing crisis and improve the health service. The cost of either buying a home or renting is unaffordable for many and it's a massive chunk out of most people's income. It means companies have to offer higher and higher wages to entice workers. Corporation tax is probably going to harmonised throughout the EU. We need to look at how we can keep Ireland as attractive a base for companies as possible, even without a tax advantage. We should be doing all we can to reduce the cost of living here and fixing the housing crisis would really help.
So do I while conspiratorial I believe that the government don't necessarily see fixing the housing crisis as within their interest as fixing the crisis is going to cause massive deflation to the housing market as the supply/demand curve fixes itself suddenly leaving a massive amount of people in negative equity or seeing maybe 40% sliced off the value of their homes.
That plus the recent surge in people deciding that small amounts of investment properties are a viable retirement strategy.
Suddenly the government will make a lot of their core voter base angry and believe they would have a very hard time getting elected for a while
@@darragho6358 But fixing the housing crisis should involve measures for dealing with houses that will go into negative equity when house prices fall. One thing we could do would be for the government to buy distressed loan portfolios from the banks at a discount - and then pass those discounts on to the mortgage holders. So while homeowners would see a drop in the value of their home, they would have a reduced mortgage to pay back, and the cost of paying rent for their child who has gone to college in another part of the country would also be lower. If done right, it would be hugely popular with voters. It just wouldn't be popular with the large institutional investors in our property market.
@@darragho6358I wouldn't even say that's "conspiratorial". It's pretty much blatantly obvious.
FFGs main voter base are largely older property owners. The electoral reality for them makes it impossible to actually solve the housing crisis.
"Vote for us, we're going to tank the value of your home by 40% by flooding the market with supply"
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
Something needs to happen, immigration is just going to keep increasing
"It was really when the iPhone, the search engine and social networks were invented in Ireland........"
Pure Gold.........a pot of gold!
No but lots of service and technical industries were developed.
I knew what this was about when I read the title. As a sidenote: this is the reason the backlog for European privacy cases against Big Tech is gigantic. Ireland got saddled with the EU's GDPR authority over all these multinationals and it's overwhelming.
Does it seem likely Ireland will be in a rush to sort the backlog?
@mikethomas4193 Good point. Can't has apparently turned into wont, seeing as the DPC itself lobbied for rules being nicer to Facebook
But it was an impossible task to begin with and you wonder who ever thought this set-up was a good idea
Irish GDP is a fake, cheating with lower corporate tax rates and attracting companies like Apple to tax in Ireland (to in fact evade taxes) is just a manipulation and is not changing anything in country's economy which is very weak. Ireland has not invented anything as it is technologically underdeveloped, never produced a any car, which is the first sign of technological status. Technology goods are not even produced in Ireland, they are just re-packaged in Ireland to get the EU stamp and evade taxes. Irish economy is a joke and germany will sooner or later close this circus. Criminal developers and corrupted government are hand in hand pushing young generation to emigrate abroad so this will end up in a total disaster.
@TrulyMadlyShallowly Tax lawyers, I believe, approved the setup. And who's to say they are wrong?
Did my purchase of a couple of very nice wool sweaters help? Irish made from Irish wool. They really are nice sweaters.
I hope they really are. Lots of sweaters sold to tourists in Irish beauty spots are really imported and named as if they are Irish.
@@sean_d They were expensive enough. They were very particular about the wool they were made from and place of manufacture. However, I am no expert.
@@Fudmottin Sounds good. May have got it wrong about importing. The Aran Sweater Market is the big company supplying many tourist outlets but secretive about exactly where they are made, claiming Ireland but not specifying where. Given the quantities very unlikely to be made on the Aran Islands or hand-knitted, despite suggestive carefully worded text on their advertising, but they probably do special lines of hand-loomed sweaters too. Some locals probably still do them by hand-knitting. "Well wear!" as we say here to someone with a new garment.
@@sean_d My late grandmother used to knit sweaters. This has that look, but I'm sure a machine could duplicate it well enough to fool me. It does have particular care instructions. No tossing that into a washing machine! LOL. Thanks!
I worked at a major financial institution that built its global trading infrastructure around an Irish incorporated bank. We had a huge back office in Dublin, starting in the early 1990s, and very good relations with the Central Bank of Ireland. It was a huge component of our ability to embrace new product, efficient tax structures, reliable settlement and effective investigations. I realize that there isn’t a great sharing of wealth from this kind of activity and we were benefiting from legal and political arbitrage but that Dublin operation was a significant relative advantage for our institution. I hope the high tide is lifting all boats now.
Irelands wages have increased several fold since the 1980s. Unemployment is also several times lower.
@@Art-is-craftyet real income has massively been decreasing in this country for years and the unemployment rates post 2008 have been manipulated by part time work zero hour contracts. Yes we created jobs through the austerity but the figures are there that those jobs were not meaningful
It worked in the past under lemass but the system fails as production has changed in the last 60 years. Suddenly the necessary labour in comparison to production is very low so given the level of tax breaks we create we don't create anywhere near the same level of employment we did in the past.
@@darragho6358
Income in Ireland has increased. And the number of people employed has also increased.
Efficient tax structures 😂😂 that is the white collar way of say tax evasion 😂
I distinctly remember that when I set up my PayPal account, it was some middle aged Irish woman who performed the KYC call. She was very pleasant. Never actually used the account (debit cards exist), but I 've always remembered it as a benchmark for the level of customer service I want my business to provide.
Yes this is indicative of every single person in Ireland. They are all happy, pleasant and helpful if you call any of them at any time for any reason.
@@AcidOlliehaha good one. One of the worst level of customer service in Europe. Try speaking to any one in retail or civil service. Shocking. I’m Irish and lived in multiple countries and currently living in Ireland
@@johnoconnell3842you sound like a Karen John
@@bid84you’re right of course…that must be it. Have a travel around and come back to me
Moral of the story: The country showing best GDP does not mean that country is livable for regular people. And any Government of any country does not give damn about their own people
Exactly
so how should the Irish government arrange their economy?
Your last sentence is sad but true.
Thanks very much, Patrick.
This message needs to be heard everywhere.
It's not working anymore, printing money out of thin air and favouring corporation over people, while repressing savers and rewarding speculators.
Did you hear the part where he explained that's where Ireland gets 80% of its tax revenue? Corporations..
@@atix50at the expense of every country apple, etc operate in.
@@jetnavigator ..because of the tax rules those countries implement.
@@lovelylemonfactory are you suggesting a race to the bottom in corporate tax? I mean, I'm all for it. Let's live in an anarcho-capitalist nightmare.
@@kerimgueney Not at all. The countries can enforce taxation policies that do not allow companies to do this. As Patrick said in the video, Apple told congress what reform could be done so they would pay tax in the US, the US chose not to do implement it.
Thank you Mr. Boyle. Very informative.
Living in Ireland the situation here is not good, it can only end in tears here.
The real estate is the problem, which is an artificial creation of the government due to anti landlord and anti build regulations. If that’s fixed it’s blue skies for Ireland (not literally)
@@flamaros1987 the population is uneducated and poor. the youth is out of control, they are either drug addicts or criminals or both. the public does not trust the central government. sometimes you feel like you are living in a medieval mountain and there is no order. a vast number of people are frauding the government with welfare schenanigans, and they have been doing it for at least 2 generations. the greed of the wealthy and the anger of the poor is clearly visible when you walk on the streets, especially in the central dublin. unless they do something to fix the wealth inequality by punishing greed, ireland won't last long. the indirect effects of the big companies like 40% payroll taxes will disappear when no one wants to live in ireland and work for these companies. irish people are proud, unlike the governments, they won't admit that they depend on these companies and their foreign workers. but they absolutely do and unless they educate their already not properly educated population into qualified workers to replace them they will lose in the metrics outside gdp too.
@flamaros1987 there's no housing and the government doesn't care about helping it's homeless
@@reggie69. So its the same as everywhere else then ....
@papi8659 yes but Ireland's literally has like 700 houses available to rent
and there was this house viewing that went viral why because the land owner allowed anyone who wants to come go to the house and view and didn't expect what would happen next
so people did and for this one house viewing over 100 people came Before Sunrise to see this one house that picture is just exemplar of the housing crisis that we are deal with
it's common for a foreign students to get accepted into an Irish University and then they would have to go home because there's literally no space in student accommodation and as soon as you can't get that there's no way you can get a place to live outside the uni unless you're willing to commute with a car from rural area so you might as well just go home
especially as a student because landlords are getting so many applications that they only pick the perfect people and don't bother with less than the ideal tenant they literally have like 200 people and over to pick from
Thanks to our growing list of Patreon Sponsors and Channel Members for supporting the channel. www.patreon.com/PatrickBoyleOnFinance : Paul Rohrbaugh, Marc De Mesel, Nate Stapleton,Timothy Baird, WIlam, Hernan Merino, Random Encounter, Nieuwsbrief Ikwil, Bee Positive Consulting, hyunjung Kim, John Cadena, Ian Tracey, Callum McLean, Oscar, Simon Pena, Ed, Erik Van Ekelenburg, David O'Connor, Pjotr Bekkering, Alex, Robert W Proudfoot, Andre Michel, Ivan Iliev, Gopaljee Atulya, Mark Hooker, Artem Vasenin, Sebastian, Michal Lacko, Peter Bočan, Michael Pierce, V Jordan, Gil, Mark Brophy, David Urdenata, Juan Valdez, Bruce Roberts, Chad Norman, Bruce Roberts, Shamikh Rana, Friday Guy, Marc De Mesel, Augusto Ramos, Soy Boomer Doomer, Bob Slartabartfast, Robert Feiler, Camil Dbouk, Erik Montesinos, Matthew Loos, Az Indragiri, Aman Bali, Lautaro Parada, Pratap, Deborah Joseph, Robin Sung, Kurt Johnston, Dominik Auerbach, Gurmeet Kaushal, John Hall, Dara Mo, Josef Goergen, Wilbert Cheng, Jaroslav Tupý, Trevor Lucey JB Weld, Alex, Carlos Figuera, Peter Pomelov, Null065, Rick Thor, MeBerzerk, Henry Nguyen, Sola F, The Collier, Carlos Mejia, J Wadia, Bitcoin OG, easy boekhouding, Albert, Eugene Jung, Daniel Cervini, Jonathon Yong, Iris Ji, Emil Nicolaie Perhinschi, Charles, Eli Auto, Excks, Michael Li, Par Hedman, Praveen Mishra, Gerard Scott, joel köykkä, Areeb Ahmed, David Wang, Rodolfo Cornetti, Daniel Winroth, johnny, Nick Jerrat, Chris Houston, Alastair Currie, Robert Griffin, Andrei, zizi Golo, Fab Vida, Constantin Petrenco, pawel irisik, NotAScam, James Halliday, 22 Dust, Carsten Baukrowitz, Heinrich, Arron T, Ben Brown, Stephen Mortimer (to The Moon), Ryan B. Hicks, Liam, Logan Vrankovic, William Heaton, Paul McCourt, Daniel, Aaryan Koura, Christopher Boersma, Ulf Lundblad, Dorothy Watson, Greg Blake, Simon Bone, Livermores Quant, The Collier Report, Scott Gardner, The Man Koala, Brian McCullough, Finance Student, Julie, Mohammad Rehman, James Wallace, Daniel Poellmann, Edosa Odigie, Dixon Yuen, Marek Novák, Stamatis Drepaniotis Michael Smith, Ahmed Hamadto, Chris Davey, Mike Farmwald, Michael A. Mayo, Lachezar Georgiev, Bradley Johnson, Sagar Gudi, Michael Chessar, Kate ATL, Tong Cheung, Lady Dje, James Barnes, Chris Hall, Kurt Johnston, ICBM Catcher Juan Valdes, Linn Engström, Veltsh, Konrad P-kala, Pastacat, Adam Vorting, Matthew McQuade, Christopher Lesner, freebird, Kenneth WedMore Lund, erfective, Jason Young, Jonathan Kopnick, Peter Hendrickson, steel, Bastien, Tom Willett, Chris Whitehead, Anil Jason, JOJO, Greg Thatcher, Ezekiel Templin, MrLuigi1138, Leszek Frankowski, Nam Nguyen, Karim THIBAULT, C, David R. Ingemi, Robert Wave, Dmitri Alexeev, Aaron Rose, Ethan Hernandez, Claude Chevroulet, Stephan Marosvary, Louis Julien, Jan Lukas Kiermeyer, Gearoid O Connor, Fredrick Saupe, Subliminal Transformation, Alex McMahon, Adi, Ben, Kurt Mueller, Janusz Wieczorek, Federico Viscomi, Corgi, Mahdi, Quinn Cone, QiKaiQian, Stephen, Joshua Rosenthal, Michael Smith, Emilian Marius Tudor, Cormac, Ian Shearer, Michael Kopřiva, Tinni, Goran Milivojevic, Joe Del Vicario, Alexandre Mah, Norman A. Letterman, maRiano polidoRi, Stephan Prinz, Gary Yrag, Mattia Midali, Matthew Berry, Jay T, Gabor, Shivendra Saklani, Zachary Tu, Jeffrey, Lane Alan Deyoe, Chett Flynn Jonathan Horn, Mo Herbert, Justin Thuet, Olaf Thiele, Todd Gross, Douglas Caldwell, Wade Hobbs, Volodymyr Palii, James Hoctor, Gavotti SGP, Ryne Davis, Jean-Philippe Lemoussu, Keanu Thierolf, Michael Chow, Stefan Alexander, Miroslav Ognyanov, Scott Guthery, Arto Karhu, James Bache, Jason Harner, Dale Patch, Stefan Penner, Arvid, Eric, Jonathan Metter, John Way, Maria Baker, Sharath Vulupala, Keith Elkin, Chris Nicholl, Luis Carmona, Vinci Chan, Olivier, Yasha, James Yoh, Eduardo Martinez, Adi Blue, Swain Gant, georgejr, hyeora, old gambling art bag, Boussaken, Vik, Chris Albertson, Sprite_tm, matt f, Douglas Caldwell, Adgn, Chris Rock, Tuan Nguyen Minh, Daniel Baak, Jeremy King, Julien Debache, M1, Dougald Middleton, Tom, Diarmuid Kelly, Gregory Mahoney, Angelo Rauseo, Ryne Davis, Anne Molphy, Ekaterina Lukyanets, Alfred, sugarfrosted, Okkie, Larry, Sarah, miilo, Alexandre GUYAMIER-CROISSANT, Alex C, Henk S, Noel Kurth, John Tran, Daniel Soderberg, Daniel Ralea, Steve Crotti, Shaun Deanesh, DaFlesh, Dominique Buri, Manmeet Sheera, Stephen Walker, Richard Stagg, Bo Grünberger, Justin Sublette, R, Paul Twilley, 인기 김, Louis Görtz, Arjun K.S, josef strand, Simon Crosby, Alex Do, Minnah seoh, Jacob Snedaker, Edgar De Sola, Izidor Vetrih, WhiskeyTuesday, Compuart, Felix Goroncy, Nick Top, Anita Mui, C.J. Christie, lazypikachu23, Olivia Ney, Steven, Jordan Millar, Reagan Glazier, Viki Rebic, Adrian, KoolJBlack, Deborah R. Moore, Alonso Ibarra, Dru Hill, Dean Maurer, Tim Jamison, gavin, Ultramagic, HEWHOSHALLNOTBENAMED, Nigel Knight, Daniel Winroth, Paul Niekamp, Job Zamora, Zhnjy, Brian K. Lee, Tony Bianucci, storm, scott johnson, Agatha DeStories, Chris Peterson, Nesh Hassan, Molly Carr, Christan, Michael Jones, Ross P, Conor Rainey, Milos Krljanovic, Richard Hagen, Nicholas Muller, Adam Stickney, Peter Weiden, RVM, Brainless, Marcio Andreazzi, Yih Pin, Ziad Azam, STEPHEN INGRAM, Michael Wilson, Daan Jetten, Ivan Katanic, Benjamin, Boris Azais, Flanneryo, Paul Hilscher, Manuel Barkhau, Earnest Williams, Harun Akyürek, Dionysis Partsinevelos, toufik ouriachi, Maximiliano Rios, Claire Walsh, AT, Atanas Atanasov, William J. Murphy, Tom Eccles, Matthew Lang, Fernanda Alario, nishil, Alfred Tagher, Ulf Lundblad, Weijie Diao, Dave Jones, Matthew Colter, Alan Medina, Georgios Kontogiannis, M, Kirandeep Kaur, Charles, William Ching, Omer Secer, Clement Schoepfer, A M, Ivo Stoicov, Wade Hobbs, Sam Freed, DesuuDesuu, Oliver Goemans, ML, Kalimero Eric Holloman, waziam, Saaientist, DebsMO, Mike Pearce, Andrew Backer, David Kavanagh, Piotr Klos, JAG, Stonks, Yura Vladimirovitch, Artiom Casapu, Davíð Örn Jóhannesson, Anna, M G, Jacob Warbrick, Jessie Chiu, gurbans, Eric Bowden, Michael Green, james Brummel, Sahil Kumar, Huxky, Deb-Deb, David Swastek, Fly Girl, D F CICU, michael briggs, Dakota Jones, Stephen Fotos, David Nguyen, Bill Walsh, eliott, Ignacio David Palladino, Meee, Bolutife Ogunsuyi, Mihai, Tomislav Kožić, Max Macial, Thomas Foster, D Vidot, Reginald Gilbert, Brian W. Bush, korede oguntuga Zoe Nolan, TheGabornator, Erik Johansson, Shaun Alexander, Martin Esser, Old Ulysses, Nay Lin Tun, e_mister-t, Hong Phuc Luong Rolf-Are Åbotsvik, Viktor Nilsson, Daniel Taylor, Kirk Naylor-Vane John Martin, Heather Meeker, Martin Dráb, Gautham Chandra, Chan Mun Kay, Tom, Julien Leveille, Sean Wheeler, yuiop qwerty, Kerry McClain Paye Mann, Tom Sinnott, Mr Dietsam, Alexander List, Joshua Ivan Chong Jay-Quallin Bbalake, Ningli Wang, Ahmad Murshidi, LoOP, Mithun Choudhary, Gavin Gallagher, Milanka Vasiljević, LT Marshall and Yoshinao Kumaga
Pin comment
So TLDR: Ireland is a tax heaven and props up its economy by things that don't happen in Ireland
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Leprechaun economics
As an Irish person, i can't say Ireland is not a tax haven of sorts, but the difference with Ireland is that pretty much all the companies that use Ireland for tax purposes also set up in Ireland and employee thousands of people. This could not be said to be the case for the other so called tax heavens around the world. Also a lot of Irelands prosperity before and after the crash is driven by governments that set up an education system the was pretty much tailored to educating a work force to work in all these companies. Ever other country if free to follow the Irish model
If every country followed Ireland's model it would ruin their taxes. It is only working for Ireland because they can attract the businesses looking to avoid taxes in their actual home countries, which when added up can still be a lot of money even at Ireland's low tax rate (and especially compared to Ireland's relatively modest population). If other countries took Ireland's model and then those companies returned home, it would be disastrous for Ireland and wouldn't benefit the other countries very much either. It'd be a race to the bottom.
@@damienmc9973 I'm aware they do employ people but it comes no where close to generating that much additional GDP. And whatever they do is irrelevant, the question is if they dodge higher taxes somewhere else that way. Purely from an operational standpoint it makes no sense to do it all in Ireland, a more central location in Europe would make more sense for that.
And no, they can't follow the Irish model. If everyone lowers their taxes then no place is more attractive anymore and they'll just stay where it's more convenient
I just realized I'm not smart enough to follow any of this..but I light a damn good campfire.
Im a professional and lived there for 13 years. I dare say that the per capita earnings is not even half of that.
"The" or "Your"
@@jeebusk💀💀💀
I live in the Netherlands. The country scores quite high in various “rich country” rankings. Well, the truth is that 75% of the rental market is social housing. Something isn’t right here.
US has a similar scam going. Our whole economy is rich people passing money back and forth. Literally nothing gets done. Ever.
GDP is not the right figure to measure populations wealth…
I thought that was one of the best things about the Netherlands actually.
I friend of mine immigrated there in a quite good job, and he told me without any shame that loads of people he knows are on government housing.
But I'm not from there. So if anyone knows any better I'd love to hear it.
@@FederalPandas well the good thing is everyone has some housing (not this won't apply to the expats but mostly to locals; expats pay the full price, of course). But I put it in a contrast with the headline - if the country is so rich, why there are so many poor people that they can't even pay for their own housing?
@@FederalPandas social housing seems to mean everyone is generally better off. There's no series of middle man taking a cut so everyone has more disposable income which gets spent on local business. It's exactly the same as Singapore where about 80% is also social housing and they've also got great economy.
Well broken down, thanks Pat
Ireland is the richest country in the world, but only in the same way that George Bailey from It’s a Wonderful Life is “the richest man in town”
Ireland has a massive export industry. With over 35% economic exports.
Kindly do a segment on Poland growth. Also Indonesia-if it could be an Asian Powerhouse. Then Morocco for Africa and finally Mexico for the American continent. These countries are touted to grow as US firms shift operations from China to these areas and chip firms like Intel are building plants in Poland and Ireland.
Fantastic video as always Patrick.
Complex interplay if so many different factors distilled to their economic ramifications in a simple manner. 💯
Very informative and thourougly resarched. Thank you.
7:43 Patrick I love your humor
What humour?
I find your videos amazingly informative and enlightening to my non financially educated brain. Always so much to think about! Thank you, thank you.
Honestly I'd love to see a video from you on why the US doesn't have it's own sovereign wealth fund, as it would on paper align with nearly everyone's preferences; a free market solution to the lack of social services, paid for via investments in the economy rather than through straight taxation.
US doesn’t have a federal wealth fund but some states do, like the Alaska Permanent Fund.
@@andrewharris3900 That's my point though. It doesn't, which to me always seemed odd.
All great for Globalist Corporation's
The Real Irish get Crumbs
Because the US would artificially manipulate markets (even more than it already does) simply by using its financial institutions. A US sovereign wealth fund would literally break markets.
@@aarzu10This is the correct answer. At best the US sovereign wealth fund could be a passive investor. Any activist investment like other SWFs would be too politically charged. Even passive investment would be accused of favoring big businesses.
I’m an Engineer and have never had any interest in finance or economics until I discovered Patrick’s channel. He makes the concepts interesting and easy to understand. Although I would like to hear more about rap music.
It's almost as if its capital is always Dublin
They call me Mr Irelamd cause my money is Dublin.
@@arrell1xyz Did the Ulster affect the color of pee coming out of your Cork?
@@arrell1xyz 😂
Excellent video, thanks.
So the USA taxes its citizens who live abroad but not its companies? And from the country that says companies have the same rights as people?
The U.S. health industry is all about maintaining the highest imaginable charges to dumb poorish ordinary _little people._
Did you allow as many commercials as you could possibly pack into the video to interrupt the viewing? Hey, Patrick?
I would have hoped for some breakdown of salaries.
After all, a country is made by people, right?
Regardless of whether the above is right or wrong, it would have given more context and helped explain some of its problems.
Excellent video about a very complex situation
I would love to see where all this infrastructure money has been spent.
I don't think it has been spent yet.
Potatoes?
The infrastructure money he refers to is from the early 90s known as EU structural funds for the development of impoverished regions of the EU. Frankly, Ireland makes a mess of alot of things but those funds were well spent on our first major dual carriageway Road network, which has literally transformed the country...just fyi
@@joliecide quit trying to be smart people like you the way you are.
Not in county Cork that’s for sure lol
Thank you and that was brilliant
Gdp is an outdate measure. It is more suitable to measure manufacturing activity. Not so much to measure tech and innovation powered economies
True but what other metric is available that is both calculated consistently world wide and practical to collect ?
@@Finderskeepers. I don't know of any. I think the economic activities of an entire country are way too complex to be captured by a single (or few) metrics.
But I know comparing countries based on GDP is pointless.
Wouldn't it be better to measure things like average wage and cost of living?
@@b3arwithm3 That's the point, we dont have a better measurement yet. But yeah GDP with other measurements hand in hand can paint a better picture. GDP is still an important measurement but needs to be with other data too to make more sense.
@@Finderskeepers. Median salary. Not average, that is also useless.
Median salary will give a proper ideia of what the normal person gets. And that will always be a proportion of the real economy quality.
I know of a woodland nymph that would be excellent to run the fund. She just has to work out some problems 1st
Patrick most likely always wanted to cover this topic given his unique insider knowledge, great detail as always.
During a visit to Ireland in 2023, as I walked around Dublin and Cork, I thought the places looked fairly prosperous but they did not have a really affluent look to them and neither did the people I saw in the streets. Amsterdam, Munich, Vienna, Copenhagen and Oslo were cities I visited and they all had a more affluent look to them.
I'd love to see how much the Irish people actually benefit from schemes like this versus the benefits in profit and shareholder dividend increase these massive corporations get from doing them. All I see online is unhappy Irish folk, in particular the effect that second home buyers and airbnb owners have had on the housing market. If everything becomes more expensive for the people living there because of stuff like this and the government does nothing to rebalance this then overall what benefit is there apart from kickbacks for politicians and PR headlines.
I think a lot of the complaints around housing stem from irelands planning laws. At the moment it is quite difficult, and expensive to build large scale developments which are really what’s needed at the moment to increase supply.
The benefits to the Irish people are really employment and above average salaries. US companies employ enormous number of people both directly and indirectly. The tax they generated has also helped the government to decrease tax on employees and increase benefits over the last years
Thanks Patrick
Lol. I can’t tell the difference between Ireland and California. I’m SO sorry for you folks…
We can probably say this - outside of the oil rich states (Norway, UAE) and the city states (Monaco etc), Ireland has probably the wealthiest government in the world, with budget surpluses predicted for years into the future. But a rich government does not mean a rich population, although the money does trickle down somewhat. There is a large affluent population making a good living from working in those multinationals (particularly in south Dublin) but the majority of the rest of the country and the working class are really struggling with the costs. It's a tough one - do we want lots of jobs and high costs, or few jobs and low costs. Hard to have both lots of jobs and low costs at the same time - in fact you probably need a "slave" population of minimum wage workers to make that happen.
We have a "slave" minimum wage (or near minimum wage) worker class already.
Remember all those retail workers? Those 'essential' workers that people tried to virtue signal to at the height of the pandemic? Those people. Give them a pat on the back. Increase their wages? Help them afford their own accommodation? Fuck no.
That patronising 'appreciation' disappeared pretty fucking quickly let me tell you. Not that it was ever real in the first place.
10 minutes to the stream: can already like cuz I know its gonna be good ... 😅
Always! 😊
Good work.
Patrick , I love your videos and especially documentary ones like Ponzi. I wish I could help you make more of those. Cheers and keep on going!
The iPhone really did come from Ireland.
It is named for the book “I Robot”
Which in turn is named for the book “I Claudius”
Which in turn is named for the irish poem “mise Raifteiri”
Good video
@PBoyle , now we need same for Luxembourg
Good video. I question how he got that most of our population agreed that Apple shouldn't owe us the 13bn.
Because Apple had met its tax obligations in Ireland as mandated under Irish law.
It was none of the EU’s business.
Three companies paying a third of corporate tax revenue in a country that depends on that revenue for basic services like healthcare sounds risky to me. If a business looked at its books and realized that a third of their revenue came from just three customers, they'd need to think about how to diversify their sources of income, or risk having the loss of even one of those "big three" throw them from profit to loss. The people who really run things in the US don't want to tax corporations to fund healthcare for Americans, but we're willing to have tax laws that reward companies for sending profits to countries that do so for their own citizens.
I was hoping for a more in depth look on the social implications of this "miracle".
Was the life of the average Irish citizen changed for the better?
Did the citizens see any benefit from this rise?(others ,not those employed by big tech-who are few in any case,like Apple employing just 1 person in Ireland to run their "offices")
What is the best way forward for the Irish, and how dangerous is this dependency on big corporations?
The best way for Ireland to lower that dependency is to develop a local economy that is internal. The best means of doing that is to move to a lower tax economy. Lowering vat and income tax would achieve that. At the same time prsi could be increased and usc could be changed.
APPLE EMPLOYES 6,OOO. PEOPLE IN IRELAND.
Excellent as always Patrick, many thanks!
Thanks for vid. 👍
about 10 years ago i remember seeing articles saying that Ireland was offering $200,000 US for anyone who wanted to move to Ireland and start a business that would eventually employ at least 10 people. i seriously considered going for it, but felt my business plan was not that great. plus i had elderly family i could not leave.
its striking, considering that the native irish population was really struggling at that time with high unemployment, delinquencies and bankruptcies. somehow western governments and companies always prefer giving jobs and money to foreigners. i am wondering why is that?
@@bigbarry8343you are wondering why incentives were being given for individuals to set up companies that created a minimum amount of jobs while unemployment was high...
@@bigbarry8343 seems Ireland wanted to increase GDP and employment of Irish citizens. why they did not offer 200K to their own citizens? i don't know. there are foreigners living for free in my neighborhood, and they are not required to start a business nor employ anyone. it is very frustrating. at least Ireland was asking for something in return.
@@dumbcatit was to get established businesses into Ireland. We already have systems, grants etc. for startups.
The Commission didn't fine Apple. It found that Ireland had given illegal and incompatible State aid in favour of Apple and the Ireland had to recover the tax amount it would have received had it provided Apple with such favoutqble tax rulings.
i always wondered why my (american) contact lenses were made in Ireland...now i see clearly
I see what you did there!
It's funny I was actually visiting Ireland when this video came out, and nearly the same day I was talking to the guide in the Cathedral in Limerick about how I'd seen cranes absolutely everywhere.
He pointed to just how small the country is. Yeaj weve done pretty good for out little small nation, but we're just not a big player, was his attitude. Even at 5 million, Ireland has a population less than Michigan or British Columbia. And therein lies the rub. Ireland is playing a zero-sum game in its wealth building. Wealth generated by most of the world's iPhones is going to benefit a very small population tremendously, at the cost of much more revenue to much larger states. The problem is simply that it doesn't work if everyone does it.
A video about Ireland not ridiculing Irishman Kevin O'Leary is a video wasted.
What? Kevin is as Irish as Apple.
You mean Canadian Kevin?
Patrick did not need to taint himself by saying Kevin name
@@Hundredthldiotit's called sarcasm. You should try it sometime.
@@Mr-pn2eh welcome to the joke
Good to see you were at Nomad Capitalist events.
I, an American, have an Irish co-worker who has nothing good to say about Irish government. He failed to find work after graduating and ended up in the US about a decade ago. Still, I remember 20+ years ago when everyone in the US saw Ireland as a perpetual basket case on poverty and civil strife. So, progress!
Glad you’ve got him🤣
It is much easier to get a job in Ireland than to emigrate to the US.
Now you've got him keep him.
If he was trying to get a job a decade ago it was during a recession. Jobs were hard to come by for a few years, but it had already turned around by 2015. Bad timing most likely.
@@carpetslime
It was still easier to get a job in Ireland than to emigrate to the US in 2008.
The Mr Oppenheimer in minute 9 is pretty funny and ironic when having to come in for an inquiry 😂
In my opinion, and with respect to Apple, it was crappy transfer pricing regulation allowing Apple to not pay tax anywhere in any one nation. That's against the spirit of the intent of OECD BEPS directive. But it also reflects the low quality of OECD committees and representatives. Their public meetings, for example, are a joke.
It seems like it wouldn't be that hard for the U.S. to nail them for tax fraud either. I am not sure how they can claim to be Irish on one tax form of one country and then not Irish on another tax form of another country. If Ireland doesn't consider Apple to be an Irish resident/ corporate citizen, then they shouldn't be able to claim it on their American tax filings. Pretty straight forward.
@@kellygoodine9944US also nailed Microsoft for the same shit
@@kellygoodine9944I thought he explained perfectly well how that worked. It was within the law. They should change the law
Does explain much of what Analog Devices did in Ireland when I worked for them.
Also because of Brexit a lot of UK companies HQ their EU subsidiaries in Ireland because the laws and no language barriers. So the revenue flows through Ireland but practically no headcount or positive economic benefits.
Hi Patrick, pardon my off topic comment. Please would you do a talk about hydrogen energy and its feasibility? Thank you.
Patrick, I would love to see a video about multinationals, wealthy countries' Double Tax Treaties, and the way they are used to deprive developing economies of taxes. The UK is so bad with this
12:53 '... who had used Caribbean islands ... brought it *onshore* to Ireland instead.' lol :p
I havent watched one second and to answer the question, it depends who ypu ask. The single professional man whose on €45,000 but struggling to afford his flat and bills in Dublin would say no but the unemployed man with 4 kids on welfare that lives in a 4 bed semi which he doesnt even pay his rent on but will never be kicked out by the council anyway would probably say yes.
So get on the welfare then. There's no point in you crying about people being on benefits and doing better than you when you choose to get shafted up the rear by your employer.
You'll soon find yourself shocked at what a struggle being on benefits is.
Just bought 2 mars bars yesterday in dunnes to help GDP.
On a side note eating 2 mars bars will effect my health which will put more pressure on our healthcare system, but short term expect good GDP numbers
It's all on paper but the tax windfall is nice
Very good analysis learned a lot thanks for taking the time to summarise
What's worrying is that if everyone did what Ireland was doing, it wouldn't work. Those are some extremely shaky foundations ...
The opposite. If countries were incentivised to drive down their tax rates and cut regularatory red tape, both costs which are passed on to the consumer, that would make their products cheaper for said consumer.
Regularatory costs also massively benefit large multinationals who can easier afford to pay them while penalising smaller companies. Less onerous regulation lowers the cost of entry into the market, meaning more competition which is better for the consumer.
Point being, the world would be significantly richer if trade were less restricted. That's exactly what the post WWII history shows. Poverty has gone down in concert with a decline trade restrictions.
When targeting a few huge multionationals which Ireland is arguably doing, sure... But low tax rates do not equal to having just certain businesses flocking to you.. It obviously also generates new business. I would have a business if the social tax on doing it in my country wouldn't be so high and getting even higher.
Whether it would be profitable is another matter.
@@MA-go7ee I wasn't clear - I meant that Ireland wouldn't be particularly wealthy if everyone else adopted the same strategy.
@@GordonTaylorThomas
Every country would be more wealthy if taxes were lowered and deregulation occurred.
I agree. Ireland is essentially stealing tax receipts from other countries. Anyone who thinks the low corporation tax would work by stimulating local business alone, is delusional. As someone who lives in Ireland, I have to say the sustainability of this economy is concerning.
Very interesting video. Cheers Patrick
Really great video, Patrick. Definitely makes the cognitive dissonance in the experience of taking a train from Belfast to Dublin make more sense.
I wonder where Ireland would really rank in Global GDP, if the distortion were accounted for.
There is no distortion, it’s a real measure. But if you’re referring to purely transactional money that passes through Ireland, it’s generally agreed that a reduction of 20-25% is realistic.
Still places Ireland way up the GDP rankings, far ahead of the U.K. in per capita terms.
I think what you actually want is a measure of how well economically the average Irish person is. In that case, you should look at consumption per capita, not GDP per capita. And if you look at that you'll see that Ireland ranks much lower compared to its GDP per capita ranking, probably more close to Spain or Greece.
@@bk1507 a pretty poor measure because that doesn’t include savings where Ireland has the highest rates. It also counts consumption on healthcare where Ireland has one of the lowest spends because of better demographics.
@@bk1507 Money available for consumption rather than actual consumption is a better measure and Ireland ranks highly on this measure.
Great info but I need to put you in 1.5 to follow
The Irish economy is amazing if you're a millionaire CEO. Normal people are all over this comment section saying they can't afford to exist in their own country.
Yeah they say that, move to Oz for 2-5 years, and then come back bc they realise the grass actually ain’t greener anywhere else. It’s a right of passage for us 🇮🇪 ✈️
@@SilentEireSorry but the grass is greener a lot of the time. I have multiple family members who are living in Australia, and they've flat out told me they will never return to Ireland (other than visit family/friends)
Unless you're part of the wealthy privileged class, once you expand your horizons beyond Ireland, you see how small Ireland really is.
Great video!
Brilliant, as always.