I think this challenge could include a special ability to "rewind". Basically, you can get softlocked due to the order in which you unlock things, as there is some degree of choice available, but you don't know what is where so it's essentially dumb luck. What about a version where you are allowed to reset the entire run, but use the same generated multiworld, so everything is in the same place? Then you could start to strategize, now that you do know where *some* things are. What to pick up, in what order, and try to build a route that works for this multiworld. Of course, that would be much easier than the current run (but to be fair, it's not like you won this one at all-in, but you got super close!), so it should probably come with some other "nerfs" in the rules. Something like static defense counting as a unit instead of being conditional-freebies, since now, getting stuck with only medivacs just means you should route better next go around :D
Ooh, I like that idea a lot! Archipelago does actually support the feature to restart a world and play through the same seed with a different profile, so it’s definitely doable. Another thing you could do if you want to be more strategic about it and don’t want to reset the run could be to use archipelagos hint system. Archipelago allows you to check where upgrades are ahead of time at a cost that you can set, based on currency you earn by unlocking things. You could set it to zero cost and just know everything ahead of time for a more strategic and less luck based option that still has the random mission order and unlock order. You could also set getting hints to be more expensive or limit these hints some way if you want to maintain randomness. Static defense as its own unit is an interesting idea. I like it in theory, though in practice I feel like you’d have to give something to units that can’t attack. If units like medics and science vessels lose their static defense support, you’d run in to way more walls with them, and it is possible to still get these units as unavoidable upgrades by beating a level. That said, you are right that you could probably route around these units pretty effectively if you knew where they were, but at the same time, I feel like trying to make stuff work with useless units is part of the fun too. I love your mindset with this! There are so many ways you could change the rules to change the experience, and I really enjoy seeing how different people go about the same premise.
@@redwings13400 I'm actually one of the developers that works on Archipelago. Specifically, I'm in charge of Stardew Valley and DLC Quest, not Starcraft, but I do love Starcraft so I played it a lot in Archipelago. Based on your comments, you should look into the following features: start_hints, plando and triggers. Start hints would allow you to start your playthrough with an arbitrary number of hints on specific things. This could be used to pre-hint all the units, and try to build your route around them from the very beginning. Or, it could be used to hint specifically the non-attacking units, so that you have to try to dodge them, or make a route that unlocks them but unlocks something to replace them immediately after. Or build up a big force before unlocking it, so you can still win the mission. Lots of possibilities! Plando is a very powerful tool to pre-determine some of the randomization. You can pick any item and force it into any location (but of course, that's boring). Or you can pick a number of items, give them a number of locations, and the randomizer will place them at random, on these. This would allow you to place all the non attacking units on random bonus objectives, instead of on mission completions, garanteeing that they are all dodgeable, at least theoretically, without knowing where any of them are. This also opens up a significant number of possibilities for funky-but-winnable rules. Triggers can be used to roll your own randomness, and select different settings for them. You can use advanced triggers to make intelligent rules like "If a non-attacking unit rolls on a bonus objective, the victory of that same mission is garanteed to hold an attacking unit", so you are sure to always get out of there with something that attacks for next mission. Again, the only limit is your creativity! I'd love to see another video in this style that uses some of these features intelligently to make an entertaining challenge that is both chaotically random, yet prepared enough to be winnable if you are strategic enough! PS: You can also hide things in other worlds. Not sure how useful that'd be, but I imagine someone more creative than me can find a use for it!
@@MrBBmap ooh, those sound cool! If I do another archipelago run I’ll definitely remember this and work with you to set it up! Thank you for your teams incredible work on this mod, it’s an amazing program and works really well! I think the most important upgrade in this run is probably the missile turret, since without it, playing with units that have no anti air would probably be impossible. There are some levels that you can kind of get your way through without any extra anti air, but the further you get in the campaign the harder that becomes. So if someone were to do this run that should probably appear in the first level. I do think the seed I had is possible if I had routed things better and had a unit that wasn’t the wraith as my last unit. I mean, it might be possible with the wraith too but oh god that would be hard. I probably could have saved the Goliath for the end or something, which probably would have been really good. That said, I was really lucky to get the missile turret early, so I think that and not getting a super early non attacking unit are what you’d need to set up reliably completable seeds.
I've never played a starcraft game so can't say I had much idea what was happening but I do admire all the extra detail you add to your videos. They have great flow🚿
This very much resembled the other challenge you did, where you use previous planet unit unlock, though with the twist of total randomization & the funny case of have really good tech upgrades early on. The interesting take would be, which one was more difficult. I don't know what it is about modern RTS but their challenge runs unless they focus on the merits of the improvements they don't pan out with, don't let it disgruntle you but old RTSs are just so charming, due to their oddities I guess. Don't know where we are heading next but I can't wait to find out!.
Thank you! Hmm… I’d say this one was probably more difficult than my previous wings of liberty challenge, just because there’s less way to plan it out and therefore a higher chance to get stuck in an awful situation. I have a plan for my next video, and will start writing the script for it soon. We are entering an entirely new franchise, and I’m really excited to share my experiences with it. I left a hint at the very end of this video, can you figure out what it is? :D
I'm back! :D My upload schedule is probably always going to be pretty irregular, as editing videos is still just my hobby and I'm busy with work. Still, I really enjoy doing this, I have my next video planned out (going to start scripting it soon), and I hope you have fun watching! :D
Yep, I agree. There’s a fine line between a challenge that grinds you down with no reward, and a challenge that feels incredibly rewarding, it’s constantly moving, and it’s different for each person. But it’s always an important line to stay at because that’s the line we enjoy the most.
No druid? I'm getting very close to releasing my next video. Going to be a series of three long ones, you'll understand why there was such a long delay after I release it :)
I use control groups. You can see what they are in the bottom, I usually have control 4 for my command center, usually a control group for my production, and one or two groups for my army. It’s probably not the world’s most efficient control groups, but I’m a bit confused by this comment.
I’ve generally found that games run better on lower graphics, and I’ve never really felt like my experience changes much on higher graphic settings. I guess there’s an argument I should be raising the graphics if I’m making videos, but I’ve honestly never thought about that before now.
@@Mecha444 I haven’t really tried it on higher graphics on my current computer, so I can’t say for sure. But in the past, that’s what I’ve experienced.
Welcome back! Glad to see a new video
Thank you! Hope you enjoy! :D
I almost jumped out of my bed!
I think this challenge could include a special ability to "rewind".
Basically, you can get softlocked due to the order in which you unlock things, as there is some degree of choice available, but you don't know what is where so it's essentially dumb luck.
What about a version where you are allowed to reset the entire run, but use the same generated multiworld, so everything is in the same place? Then you could start to strategize, now that you do know where *some* things are. What to pick up, in what order, and try to build a route that works for this multiworld.
Of course, that would be much easier than the current run (but to be fair, it's not like you won this one at all-in, but you got super close!), so it should probably come with some other "nerfs" in the rules. Something like static defense counting as a unit instead of being conditional-freebies, since now, getting stuck with only medivacs just means you should route better next go around :D
Ooh, I like that idea a lot! Archipelago does actually support the feature to restart a world and play through the same seed with a different profile, so it’s definitely doable.
Another thing you could do if you want to be more strategic about it and don’t want to reset the run could be to use archipelagos hint system. Archipelago allows you to check where upgrades are ahead of time at a cost that you can set, based on currency you earn by unlocking things. You could set it to zero cost and just know everything ahead of time for a more strategic and less luck based option that still has the random mission order and unlock order. You could also set getting hints to be more expensive or limit these hints some way if you want to maintain randomness.
Static defense as its own unit is an interesting idea. I like it in theory, though in practice I feel like you’d have to give something to units that can’t attack. If units like medics and science vessels lose their static defense support, you’d run in to way more walls with them, and it is possible to still get these units as unavoidable upgrades by beating a level.
That said, you are right that you could probably route around these units pretty effectively if you knew where they were, but at the same time, I feel like trying to make stuff work with useless units is part of the fun too.
I love your mindset with this! There are so many ways you could change the rules to change the experience, and I really enjoy seeing how different people go about the same premise.
@@redwings13400
I'm actually one of the developers that works on Archipelago. Specifically, I'm in charge of Stardew Valley and DLC Quest, not Starcraft, but I do love Starcraft so I played it a lot in Archipelago.
Based on your comments, you should look into the following features: start_hints, plando and triggers.
Start hints would allow you to start your playthrough with an arbitrary number of hints on specific things. This could be used to pre-hint all the units, and try to build your route around them from the very beginning. Or, it could be used to hint specifically the non-attacking units, so that you have to try to dodge them, or make a route that unlocks them but unlocks something to replace them immediately after. Or build up a big force before unlocking it, so you can still win the mission. Lots of possibilities!
Plando is a very powerful tool to pre-determine some of the randomization. You can pick any item and force it into any location (but of course, that's boring). Or you can pick a number of items, give them a number of locations, and the randomizer will place them at random, on these. This would allow you to place all the non attacking units on random bonus objectives, instead of on mission completions, garanteeing that they are all dodgeable, at least theoretically, without knowing where any of them are. This also opens up a significant number of possibilities for funky-but-winnable rules.
Triggers can be used to roll your own randomness, and select different settings for them. You can use advanced triggers to make intelligent rules like "If a non-attacking unit rolls on a bonus objective, the victory of that same mission is garanteed to hold an attacking unit", so you are sure to always get out of there with something that attacks for next mission. Again, the only limit is your creativity!
I'd love to see another video in this style that uses some of these features intelligently to make an entertaining challenge that is both chaotically random, yet prepared enough to be winnable if you are strategic enough!
PS: You can also hide things in other worlds. Not sure how useful that'd be, but I imagine someone more creative than me can find a use for it!
@@MrBBmap ooh, those sound cool! If I do another archipelago run I’ll definitely remember this and work with you to set it up! Thank you for your teams incredible work on this mod, it’s an amazing program and works really well!
I think the most important upgrade in this run is probably the missile turret, since without it, playing with units that have no anti air would probably be impossible. There are some levels that you can kind of get your way through without any extra anti air, but the further you get in the campaign the harder that becomes. So if someone were to do this run that should probably appear in the first level.
I do think the seed I had is possible if I had routed things better and had a unit that wasn’t the wraith as my last unit. I mean, it might be possible with the wraith too but oh god that would be hard. I probably could have saved the Goliath for the end or something, which probably would have been really good. That said, I was really lucky to get the missile turret early, so I think that and not getting a super early non attacking unit are what you’d need to set up reliably completable seeds.
I've never played a starcraft game so can't say I had much idea what was happening but I do admire all the extra detail you add to your videos. They have great flow🚿
Aw, thank you! Glad you enjoyed it even if you were confused. :)
Love the content, excellent presentation, keep ‘em coming!
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed! :D
This very much resembled the other challenge you did, where you use previous planet unit unlock, though with the twist of total randomization & the funny case of have really good tech upgrades early on.
The interesting take would be, which one was more difficult.
I don't know what it is about modern RTS but their challenge runs unless they focus on the merits of the improvements they don't pan out with, don't let it disgruntle you but old RTSs are just so charming, due to their oddities I guess.
Don't know where we are heading next but I can't wait to find out!.
Thank you! Hmm… I’d say this one was probably more difficult than my previous wings of liberty challenge, just because there’s less way to plan it out and therefore a higher chance to get stuck in an awful situation.
I have a plan for my next video, and will start writing the script for it soon. We are entering an entirely new franchise, and I’m really excited to share my experiences with it.
I left a hint at the very end of this video, can you figure out what it is? :D
@@redwings13400It is time to listen to the last part music, over and over again!, :D
You are back!
I'm back! :D
My upload schedule is probably always going to be pretty irregular, as editing videos is still just my hobby and I'm busy with work. Still, I really enjoy doing this, I have my next video planned out (going to start scripting it soon), and I hope you have fun watching! :D
Im happy the end was fun for you
Challenges are good but grinding yourself into nothing is no good
Yep, I agree. There’s a fine line between a challenge that grinds you down with no reward, and a challenge that feels incredibly rewarding, it’s constantly moving, and it’s different for each person. But it’s always an important line to stay at because that’s the line we enjoy the most.
Hi it’s me koon Seck maw my old account is still here but this is account!
It’s been 3 months ago and no Druid
No druid?
I'm getting very close to releasing my next video. Going to be a series of three long ones, you'll understand why there was such a long delay after I release it :)
@@redwings13400 thank you dryads are Druid too
In blood elf campaign can you do with only archers?
Probably not anytime soon. Maybe eventually, but my motivation is in other places right now.
No control groups on a challenge like this?
my god
I use control groups. You can see what they are in the bottom, I usually have control 4 for my command center, usually a control group for my production, and one or two groups for my army. It’s probably not the world’s most efficient control groups, but I’m a bit confused by this comment.
@@redwings13400 oh yeah nvm. I noticed you didnt use them in some earlier missions but now that Im further in I can see them.
My bad
@@raglock1433 no problem! Hope you enjoyed the video even with my potentially subpar play :D
@@redwings13400 even Serral complains he has subpar play. Dont worry about it.
And yeah. I finished the video so it was fun.
Happy birthday to me!
Happy birthday!
@@redwings13400 it’s me koonseckmaw my old account bugged
Why are you using low graphics?
I’ve generally found that games run better on lower graphics, and I’ve never really felt like my experience changes much on higher graphic settings. I guess there’s an argument I should be raising the graphics if I’m making videos, but I’ve honestly never thought about that before now.
It will be lag?
@@Mecha444 I haven’t really tried it on higher graphics on my current computer, so I can’t say for sure. But in the past, that’s what I’ve experienced.
@@redwings13400hello?
Hi it’s me Koon Seck maw my old account got bugged and do you remember me?
of course :) You've commented on my videos more than anyone else probably has, I'm glad you've enjoyed what I make :)
@@redwings13400 yeah my old account got bugged and I got desperate
Question I reach a top commenter comment 48 heart 27