Sandra Tanner cuts through the crap to the heart of the matter. Smith was incredibly manipulative and psychopathic. Facts are nasty little things when contextualized...
This example makes my skin crawl. I worked in correctional services for over 20 years as a nurse. In that time, I worked with men and women who had committed crimes against women and children. In today's world, Prophet or not, Joseph Smith would have been convicted of sex crimes. He was, in my mind, a sexual predator. We have recent examples of men who have formed cults and preyed upon women/girls sexually. Why is there continued blindness on the part of the LDS Leadership, surely if they know the history and are privy to what has happened in the past do they continue to remain silent on these matters. Reading what the Church Apologist's have written is not the same as these matter being addressed by the current Prophet and Apostles. They are supposedly inspired of God, yet they remain silent. That in itself speaks volumes!
And no, 30 year old men marrying and having sex with multiple 12, 13, 14 year old girls back in the 1800's is not completely different than it is now. That is why they had/have LAWS against polygamy. I am not ignoring that women and children were treated differently. Men made the rules. That is why women were punished for committing adultery and men weren't. But if Joseph Smith was a true prophet of god, he would obey the 10 commandments. That includes number 7: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
1890, because the US Government had enough and was about to send an army to Utah, then magically there was a "revelation" to stop it. Just like the racism in 1978 that was finally stopped.
I'm looking at videos of psychopaths and the more I look at the story of JSmith, I think he fits into the definition of 'Psychopath' which is interesting, although I do have to say that I feel sorry for JSmith's childhood. I wanted to ask for whosoever had the answer, can someone tell me where I can find the stories of the wives of JSmith? Thank you for reading this.
It is unfortunate that Smith became what is all too common, a "law" unto himself. He neither followed God nor regarded anything that was truly Christian. He died a pagan in every sense of the word. He was unrepentant, and God judged him at the jail at Carthage....
If you can read about Joseph Smith, which was so recent that the stories are less shrouded in mystery, and not come away with the fact that he was a charlatan, you probably are one too. That goes triple for Scientologists where L. Ron Hubbard's intentions were crystal clear from the beginning.
To DefendingMormonism, Using "God" to get 14 year-olds and 15 year-olds in the sack was NOT normal for the time period. A lot of coercion was applied - take the girl's age into account; what 15 year old had the will and mental prowess to withstand the pressure of family, LDS society, and the church? Also, sending men on missions so you could marry their wives was deceptive (FACT: Both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did this). The church also kept this "doctrine" secret for years.
No it is not CIRCUMSTANTIAL.(learn to spell). It was written in the diaries of his wives. It is not a game of telephone. It is directly from handwritten journals. It is not a "so-called" action. It has been PROVEN that Joseph Smith married over 30 women that Emma did not know about. Check out familysearch (dot) org. It is an LDS-approved website. It shows that Joseph Smith had many MANY wives.
After seeing an objective documentary of Smith, it's my opinion that he was an extremely intelligent, and extremely horny...that's HORNY guy, who wanted several young wives and to justify it, constructed an elaborate justification for it.
@ragnarok042 Again, if what she is saying is not true, refute it and I will agree with you. But honestly, I would not want anyone I care about following a man who married young girls behind his wifes back. I dont see anything wrong with exposing a person who takes advantage of others in the name of religion. That the Tanners ask for compensation for the books they publish or accept donations to continue their research is not evil as you imply.
@ImLDSRU2 Oaks also said that the owners of the press could have easily sued for damages. The real gem of the Nauvoo Expositor is that it revealed Joseph Smith's secret practice of Polygamy. Joseph had been condemning polygamy in public but practicing it in private. Fellow Mormon, William Law, was disgusted by this hypocrisy and exposed Smith in the paper. In retaliation, Smith had the press destroyed. And just like Smith, Mormons like you can't stand it when uncomfortable truths come out!
@cevansroxy Wow you wrote alot. quick question. Did the girls married to Joseph Smith have the option of divorce? My understanding of marriage in the Mormon church is it lasted for eternity.
defender of the Church and also was quite sure the "Anti-Mormons" told lies. One of them told me to go look it up for myself -- in the Church's own publications! I did. I am no longer a believer in the Church because I found MOUNTAINS of evidence against the Church from its own early publications and faithful members diaries.
Feeling good and worshiping a god made up by a man will not give you a free pass into heaven. Guess what? There is NO outer darkness but their is a hell.
Mormons have to give Joseph a pass their whole faith depends on it, polishing his character is why I consider Mormons dishonest, at least the ones that know his real history
Did you not hear the part about Lucy much later expressing extreme regret over the entire thing? I swear, the Joseph Smith supporters in these comments have selective hearing.
Oh Savaii! So glad to see that you have your head firmly in place between you hind quarters! How has that research being coming along to prove that Smith was who you want him to be? Honest, pure, virtuous etc. Please research, and stop by the Foundation's site again if you have any more questions in your search. All the best in your continued studies!
2 Corinthians 11 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
In effect from 1823 the age of consent WITH parental permission was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. The difference between plural marriage and open relationships is that open relationships do not involve MARRIAGE. And they often involve actual feelings toward another person. Smith just pointed at a girl and said, "Hey you. God said you have to marry me." Polygamy was not just taboo. Polygamy was and is ILLEGAL. Being gay and porn is NOT illegal.
You've explained nothing! You said it was all lies and now that prove otherwise you say it was just on paper. Again when I show evidence to the contrary you again claim its false. What would you like to present to the contrary? (crickets) Question: Why did Joseph Smith marry them in the first place since the purpose of polygamy was to raise seed? How is that possible if no intimate contact took place? In nearly every case the woman's husband didn't know nor did Emma? What does that tell you?
I accept Christ as my Savior, and I know He is my Lord. I believe in following his commandments and that he foretold the coming of false prophets. One of those false prophets is Joseph Smith.
@cevansroxy Marriage to n barely pubescent girl whose father was sent on a mission is just 'unusual'? Criminal, predatoryand pedophilic would be the right term.
@scottwins2 As for Jacob, his polygamy was the source of a great deal of family heartache and dysfunction. He was never commanded to take additional wives; in fact, his own intention was to take only one, but family pressures and trickery pushed him into polygamy. Do you want to see more?
@dorisfenella Roman coins being used in the day of Jesus in the first century AD Chapter 11 says Nephites coinage set forth, than it goes through and describes how the money system, of the book of Mormon worked, if we take this images of coins we find In the book of Mormon, and contrast them to the system of exchange in place of ancient Americas, we find that they are not at all alike, there were no metallic coins being used. The book of Mormon is that flat out wrong
I think he just had to bed EVERY woman he met and loved the thrill and secrecy behind the backs of his wife and their husbands/fathers! He married women of 47, 48 and even in their 50s--and had he lived to be old, I bet he'd have had wives in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. We've all known these guys who know just what to say to women, how to take her hand, look her in the eye, and as women, we react in spite of ourselves. And yes, he was a sexual predator to the 16 yr old girls he manipulated!
just because the FLDS practice Polygamy does not reflect on what the mainstream mormon church teaches, the LDS stopped Polygamy in the 1800's there are things that Joseph Smith said that mainstream mormonism doesnt do
There's also Marinda Hyde who was married go Joseph Smith. "Frank Henry was born on January 23, 1845. Orson Hyde left for Washington April 4, 1844. The difference in these two dates is 294 days! That is almost a month longer than expected and is basically physiologically impossible, especially considering that Orson Hyde had not returned to Nauvoo until August 6, 1844 (Andrew Jenson, Church Chronology, August 6, 1844)." P.S. Only 4% of women even gestate two weeks past the average!
Mormons, the information presented in this clip is historically accurate and can be verified by you through a process known as research. Why would your god sanction such abhorrent behavior in a supposed prophet? Where was Lucy's "free agency?" As one of her descendants, I am ashamed that I once counted Smith as honorable & virtuous. Please research. The Mormon Church is not what it claims to be. Perhaps this site run by active Mormons will aid you in your studies: MormonThink d o t c o m
@dorisfenella •Por que no hay mapas en el libro del mormon? Solo hay fotos, cualquiera puede poner fotos. No hay mapas, ensenando tierras en el libro del mormon, sabe por que? becuase you can’t place it on Earth. Usted sabe donde estan? En donde estan los coins q habla en alma? Una civilizasion como la que habla su libro, tiene q dejar marcars, como, caminos, coins, records escritos. En fin
The reintroduction of the horses into the Americas began in 1519 when Cortez came from Spain for the conquest of the Aztecs. The only horses that ever existed in America before the 1500s were there millions of years ago. And they were no bigger than German Shepherds.
No I did not change my story. The AGE OF CONSENT was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. That does not mean they all got married at 12 and 14. Most of them WAITED until they were sexually mature enough. Pedophilia is the same as it was then. Pedophilia is characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children. Look it up.
Wait, there's more! Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)
I totally agree with this. I am so tired of people praising his name and making him worthy of been a prophet of God! It is insane! And yes, he was clearly a predator!
@ImLDSRU2 Joseph was the mayor wasn't he? The Expositor was against Smith not the city council. Once he died, there was no reason to sue the city council.
it was as if she lived in those days... I testify that Joseph smith is a prophet of God and that he is a great man of integrity and a great disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you knew anything, at least 95% of his marriages were in Illinois. It was illegal in Ohio and Missouri where he married the other 5% of his wives. 8 years old is not an ideal marrying age. Neither is 9, 10 or 11 or even 12 for that matter. The purpose of marriage is to produce offspring. A 10 year old in the 1800s wouldn't have even reached puberty yet, making it impossible to have kids.
Section 101 in the 1835 printing of the Book of Commandments (later the Doctrine and Covenants) contained the following verse that was later removed. "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the CRIME of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." It was later removed in 1876. Google it if you think I'm lying.
"I heard from a friend that She is the source of all the lies . . ." Repeating gossip here are we? In 30 years of studying Mormonism one thing I learned was that of all the "critics" out there the Tanners were the most scrupuliously honest and accurate. When the Book of Mormon was attacked based on handwriting in the original manuscript the LDS church allowed Gerald Tanner to view the manuscript. They knew he, although a full-time critic, was impeccably honest.
@ImLDSRU2 I rebuke you in the name of the Lord and pray that you will listen to good people like Sandra Tanner who was saved from the darkness of Joseph Smith and his lies. I truly do hope you will wake up and stop fighting the truth.
What is rumored? The states he was married in? It shows where he was married on the LDS genealogical websites. And censuses in the 1800s showed the statistics of the ages of girls' first marriages. And scientific studies have proven that the age that puberty started back then was between 12 and 15.
Yes I did. What I find preposterous just like Joseph Smith getting a free pass on being a sexual predator is this flimsy excuse: "Applying the definition of polyandry to describe these marriages, however, is misleading, as its compatibility deviates from LDS marital theology." Joseph Smith's polyandry shouldn't be called such and somehow deserves its own special definition? Based on what?
@ImLDSRU2 I do not mean to hurt you, but I sincerely believe that you are deceived. Please pray for help and stick to your Bible rather than the man made temple worship that Joseph Smith crafted from the Masons! You cannot fully know Jesus when you are following a false prophet like Joseph Smith. It is easy to dismiss others as "anti-Christs" but you must hear the message: Jesus is the way. It's not Jesus plus Joseph's teachings. It's Jesus ALONE.
Have you ever read the Journal of Discources? The quotes I cited by BY are contained in them. I didn't pull them out of my ass as you like to assume which makes you the idiot. I have to question just how active a member you are because if you were truly active you'd know that the manual contains portions of BY's discourses and not the whole series. The church took selected quotes by BY and edited any references to wives and children to say wife making it seem as if BY was a monogamist.
Yet again, the Tanners tell half the story. Here's the rest: "Lucy prayed more fervently for an answer. She couldn’t sleep the entire night. Just before dawn, and Joseph’s deadline, she “received a powerful and irristable testimony of the truth of the mariage covenant called 'Celestial or plural mariage'” and "I afterwards married Joseph as a plural wife and lived and cohabitated with him as such.""
She spent very little of time focusing on the girls age. Her point was directed at Joseph Smiths disgusting methods for convincing these girls to join him in polygamy. Maybe you should listen a little closer to the video before making a fool of yourself....
@ImLDSRU2 Most Mormons I know try to say that his polygamy doesn't matter or that there's no proof of it. They may "know it" but getting them to admit it is like twisting someone's arm. Honest and truly, you're the first Mormon I've met who said they were glad he was a polygamist.
@dorisfenella War The footnote of the book of Mormon, suggested that the lenamites exterminations of the Nephites took place around 400 AD, yet it left no archeological evidence, by contrast, a much smaller battler that happened centuries earlier in the 1st century AD. In Palestine, demonstrates what one can expect to find, if the battle like the one describes in the book of Mormon had really accrued. Si me explico Doris? con todo lo que le eh mandado? fotos no pueden ser fundamentos.
@ImLDSRU2 Really? I don't remember any Mormon being as upfront as you, but I guess you couldn't deal with some evidence in the past, so you start spewing the "You reject the Lord" stuff. I reject Joseph Smith, not the Lord. It's sad that you think they are one in the same.
The funny thing about christians is that they totally ignore that all of their heros in the old testament had multiple wives too. So why do they hate the mormons so much?
@ImLDSRU2 Hey, I'm glad you admit it. That's more than I can say for most Mormons who get read in the face and start saying no one can prove he was a polygamist.
Joseph Smith knew about polygamy as early as 1831. There is a lot of mystery as to who was the first polygamous wife, but he did ineed do it. This lady is ignorning the fact that it wasn't abnormal to mary a 14 year old girl in the 1840s (the youngest of Joseph Smith's wives). Nor that there were many other women far older. This is classic one sided, bias, anti-mormon rehtoric that has been around since the beginning.
@cevansroxy The old 'it was not illegal so therefore its okay' argument does not fly. I cannot imagine how brainwashed a person would have to be to excuse or rationalize - or lionize - such a predatory pedophile.
She didn't emphasize the age as much as the method in which joe acted. He exploited the situation and clearly took advantage of the girl. He was a powerful and influential person that used it for his own lustful gain. Sorry, you're off the mark.
Here's a quote by Zina Jacobs, wife of Henry Jacobs and faithful member: I wish to bear my testimony to the principle of celestial marriage, that it is true I became [Joseph's] wife at this time in Nauvoo and I never in my life had a rebellious thought against that principle, for which I thank the Lord. (Collected Discourses. Joseph F. Smith. Vol. 5: 23 December 1894. Out of print).
Here are a few points that destroys your man made god and man made gospel of bondage. LDS doctrine is a blasphemy according to the Bible. Next, You worship your church. Worthiness is not an attribute that God approves of. You are as filthy rags to God. Adultery is a sin and Joseph Smith "the adulterer" came in #2 to Brigham Young. The God of Israel does not accept lies as the mormon god does in the PofGp. Go ask a Jew if God was once a man and he is confined by universal law.
I will not speak ill of the dead, so I just will address polygamy. The Mormons of the period would claim their idea of polygamy isn't really different than a man who marries then divorce's his wife. If he had three wives then who was really his wife in heaven. Of course, all three would be considered his wife. Being the Mormons dropped polygamy from their church over a 100 years ago, it is still amazing people still talk about it. To them it's not a moral question, but a salacious one 't thi
What lies you ask? Jesus is not Lucifer's brother. God was not once a man. Brigham Young taught that Adam was god. That is a lie. You cannot become a god. Joseph Smith was a Freemason. Your temples are decorated pagan symbols. So are your temple garments. Mormons were not raped and robbed. They were the ones raping and robbing and burning things down. It's their own fault because they went around spreading lies. Your prophet was the one teaching that it was okay to have sex with 12 year olds.
@dorisfenella Y q no ahiga ninguna literatura comprobando su existencia es simplemente algo fantasioso, Doris is there any document trail for the book of mormon? Are there any texts? That we can go to? Me dira, claro, hasta 1830, pero entre los eventos in el libro del mormon q segun termino en 400 AD y la primera rastra documentaria es 1400 anos, antes d poder encontrar alguna prueba documentaria, que me dice esto, que el Libro del Mormon solo fue construida por un hombre, este hombre fue jose
All it is is a lack of a contracts. witch comes down to a vebal agreement. witch if you can prove is as good as a contract. a relationship is a relationship regardless of how you look at it.
What a sad life Sandra Tanner has had. She has allowed pride to infect her heart, rejecting the Spirit of God altogether, being left to wallow in the mire of doubt and negativity. So is the life of a devoted and obsessed critic of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Besides the spiritual hallowness so clear in her talks, she also has no understanding of American culture in the 1800s as well as marital trends. Getting married in your teens was the norm.
Do you not know how to read? I did not say that the LDS church is greedy. I said JOSEPH SMITH was greedy.The only love and kindness I experienced when investigating the Mormon church was when they thought I was going to be baptized.Then as soon as I said "no" they stopped being nice to me.And the LDS is not the only organization that donates money to the needy.And how in hell would you know if I have said anything to any other churches or not?And I never said I HATED the church. I said DESPISE.
REVLUKE "What drew me to a CHRISTIAN Church, was i liked seeing the FOCUS on JESUS CHRIST & not so much, on Joseph Smith" I still haven't witnessed such a claim REV. Every Sunday we take the Sacrament in which we each renew our covenants & promises made in the water of baptism (1)always remember Him (2)keep His commandments (3)always have His Spirit's presence within ourselves. A little over 3yrs ago I quit being a born-again Christian. There is nothing in there. Ministers & pastors disagree
You are just as stubborn as the rest of the members of your cult. You say that there are no facts to support what we say. Even after I provide you with statistics. Look it up for yourself. Oh wait, you can't. Your prophets have told you not to research your own religion. They advise against it because they don't want you to find out the real truth. Look up the Book Of Abraham. Find out the REAL story behind that and come back to me.
@dorisfenella Your comment about Joseph Smith, which I have repeated here says volumes about you and about Mormonism, none of it good. 'Traitors and tyrants are fight him in vain.' You are calling exmormons traitors? You are calling non-mormons tyrants? Do you have any idea how bad that makes you and Mormonism look? I reckon you do not, or you would take that comment down.
This is the hardest thing for members to accept! I think he was under Satan's influence on this polygamy. He apparently tried to get it stopped before his death , but Brigham carried it on . I want to read the stories of all of Joseph's wives . Can you give me a few books to look into ?
@dorisfenella En Ether 9:19, Horses and there were elephants. Los mayas no tenian caballos, la unica vez que miraron un caballo en las Americas fue en 1677 cuando un hombre blanco llego cabaleando. 1 Nephi 18:25 And we did find all manner of “ore. Both of Gold and silver, and copper, No se a encontrado ningun lugar donde alguien pueda decir q en ese lugar se derretia metal oro o cobre. Entonces como los Jeridites y los niphites usaron armaduras de metal?
The sick thing is, mormons actually believe smith was threatened by a sword... Smith was a pervert who used "God" as an excuse to exploit young girls.
Sandra Tanner cuts through the crap to the heart of the matter. Smith was incredibly manipulative and psychopathic. Facts are nasty little things when contextualized...
This example makes my skin crawl. I worked in correctional services for over 20 years as a nurse. In that time, I worked with men and women who had committed crimes against women and children. In today's world, Prophet or not, Joseph Smith would have been convicted of sex crimes. He was, in my mind, a sexual predator. We have recent examples of men who have formed cults and preyed upon women/girls sexually. Why is there continued blindness on the part of the LDS Leadership, surely if they know the history and are privy to what has happened in the past do they continue to remain silent on these matters. Reading what the Church Apologist's have written is not the same as these matter being addressed by the current Prophet and Apostles. They are supposedly inspired of God, yet they remain silent. That in itself speaks volumes!
Smith was a cad, pressing young females to service him with claims of heavenly guidance.
Not to mention, he was practicing polygamy years before "god told him it was okay."
And no, 30 year old men marrying and having sex with multiple 12, 13, 14 year old girls back in the 1800's is not completely different than it is now. That is why they had/have LAWS against polygamy. I am not ignoring that women and children were treated differently. Men made the rules. That is why women were punished for committing adultery and men weren't. But if Joseph Smith was a true prophet of god, he would obey the 10 commandments. That includes number 7: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
1890, because the US Government had enough and was about to send an army to Utah, then magically there was a "revelation" to stop it. Just like the racism in 1978 that was finally stopped.
Sandra Tanner is a woman blessed with logic and clarity. How lucky we are to have her.
Smith was a sexual predator and didterrible neglect of his children and defiled his wife Emma Why is this man of such sin so honored?
Excellent presentation. How can we get this message across to Mormons?
I love Sandra Tanner.
I'm looking at videos of psychopaths and the more I look at the story of JSmith, I think he fits into the definition of 'Psychopath' which is interesting, although I do have to say that I feel sorry for JSmith's childhood. I wanted to ask for whosoever had the answer, can someone tell me where I can find the stories of the wives of JSmith? Thank you for reading this.
It is unfortunate that Smith became what is all too common, a "law" unto himself. He neither followed God nor regarded anything that was truly Christian. He died a pagan in every sense of the word. He was unrepentant, and God judged him at the jail at Carthage....
@scottwins2 Scott.. which of Joseph's many versions of the first vision do you believe?
So Brigham Young is wrong and a false prophet then? I'm glad we agree...
If you can read about Joseph Smith, which was so recent that the stories are less shrouded in mystery, and not come away with the fact that he was a charlatan, you probably are one too. That goes triple for Scientologists where L. Ron Hubbard's intentions were crystal clear from the beginning.
To DefendingMormonism,
Using "God" to get 14 year-olds and 15 year-olds in the sack was NOT normal for the time period. A lot of coercion was applied - take the girl's age into account; what 15 year old had the will and mental prowess to withstand the pressure of family, LDS society, and the church?
Also, sending men on missions so you could marry their wives was deceptive (FACT: Both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did this). The church also kept this "doctrine" secret for years.
Truth!
No it is not CIRCUMSTANTIAL.(learn to spell). It was written in the diaries of his wives. It is not a game of telephone. It is directly from handwritten journals. It is not a "so-called" action. It has been PROVEN that Joseph Smith married over 30 women that Emma did not know about. Check out familysearch (dot) org. It is an LDS-approved website. It shows that Joseph Smith had many MANY wives.
After seeing an objective documentary of Smith, it's my opinion that he was an extremely intelligent, and extremely horny...that's HORNY guy, who wanted several young wives and to justify it, constructed an elaborate justification for it.
This is amazing! Thank you so much!
@ragnarok042 Again, if what she is saying is not true, refute it and I will agree with you. But honestly, I would not want anyone I care about following a man who married young girls behind his wifes back. I dont see anything wrong with exposing a person who takes advantage of others in the name of religion. That the Tanners ask for compensation for the books they publish or accept donations to continue their research is not evil as you imply.
@MrChamp51 Who cares if she is old or dry and why call her a hag? Doesn't what matter is if her argument is correct or false?
I see no madness in her.
Ugh! Sexual predators are “too sincere!”
@ImLDSRU2 Oaks also said that the owners of the press could have easily sued for damages. The real gem of the Nauvoo Expositor is that it revealed Joseph Smith's secret practice of Polygamy.
Joseph had been condemning polygamy in public but practicing it in private. Fellow Mormon, William Law, was disgusted by this hypocrisy and exposed Smith in the paper. In retaliation, Smith had the press destroyed.
And just like Smith, Mormons like you can't stand it when uncomfortable truths come out!
@cevansroxy Wow you wrote alot. quick question. Did the girls married to Joseph Smith have the option of divorce? My understanding of marriage in the Mormon church is it lasted for eternity.
Wow! Great video! The truth rings clear!
defender of the Church and also was quite sure the "Anti-Mormons" told lies. One of them told me to go look it up for myself -- in the Church's own publications! I did. I am no longer a believer in the Church because I found MOUNTAINS of evidence against the Church from its own early publications and faithful members diaries.
What can ya say? One mans sexual predator is another man's prophet...
Feeling good and worshiping a god made up by a man will not give you a free pass into heaven. Guess what? There is NO outer darkness but their is a hell.
Mormons have to give Joseph a pass their whole faith depends on it, polishing his character is why I consider Mormons dishonest, at least the ones that know his real history
Did you not hear the part about Lucy much later expressing extreme regret over the entire thing? I swear, the Joseph Smith supporters in these comments have selective hearing.
Joseph Smith was the Warren Jeffs of his day.
I have a whole heap of friends from the LDS church that NEED to hear this, and many other things about their prophet..
Oh Savaii! So glad to see that you have your head firmly in place between you hind quarters! How has that research being coming along to prove that Smith was who you want him to be? Honest, pure, virtuous etc.
Please research, and stop by the Foundation's site again if you have any more questions in your search.
All the best in your continued studies!
2 Corinthians 11
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
In effect from 1823 the age of consent WITH parental permission was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. The difference between plural marriage and open relationships is that open relationships do not involve MARRIAGE. And they often involve actual feelings toward another person. Smith just pointed at a girl and said, "Hey you. God said you have to marry me." Polygamy was not just taboo. Polygamy was and is ILLEGAL. Being gay and porn is NOT illegal.
You avoided the question: would science confirm walking on water, resurrection after being dead 3 days or an unending basket of fish?
You've explained nothing! You said it was all lies and now that prove otherwise you say it was just on paper. Again when I show evidence to the contrary you again claim its false. What would you like to present to the contrary? (crickets)
Question: Why did Joseph Smith marry them in the first place since the purpose of polygamy was to raise seed? How is that possible if no intimate contact took place? In nearly every case the woman's husband didn't know nor did Emma? What does that tell you?
@dorisfenella I do not take youtube replies. If you have something to reply. say in in the open forum here in TH-cam.
I love Sandra. So right on the money...
I accept Christ as my Savior, and I know He is my Lord. I believe in following his commandments and that he foretold the coming of false prophets. One of those false prophets is Joseph Smith.
@cevansroxy Marriage to n barely pubescent girl whose father was sent on a mission is just 'unusual'? Criminal, predatoryand pedophilic would be the right term.
@scottwins2 As for Jacob, his polygamy was the source of a great deal of family heartache and dysfunction. He was never commanded to take additional wives; in fact, his own intention was to take only one, but family pressures and trickery pushed him into polygamy. Do you want to see more?
"sexual predator" is such a strong term. Joseph Smith was more like the David Duchovny character in "Californication".
"I don't understand why they keep saying [Joseph's actions] are okay!" Maybe because they had a testimony that he really was a prophet of God.
@dorisfenella Roman coins being used in the day of Jesus in the first century AD
Chapter 11 says Nephites coinage set forth, than it goes through and describes how the money system, of the book of Mormon worked, if we take this images of coins we find In the book of Mormon, and contrast them to the system of exchange in place of ancient Americas, we find that they are not at all alike, there were no metallic coins being used. The book of Mormon is that flat out wrong
I think he just had to bed EVERY woman he met and loved the thrill and secrecy behind the backs of his wife and their husbands/fathers! He married women of 47, 48 and even in their 50s--and had he lived to be old, I bet he'd have had wives in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
We've all known these guys who know just what to say to women, how to take her hand, look her in the eye, and as women, we react in spite of ourselves. And yes, he was a sexual predator to the 16 yr old girls he manipulated!
just because the FLDS practice Polygamy does not reflect on what the mainstream mormon church teaches, the LDS stopped Polygamy in the 1800's there are things that Joseph Smith said that mainstream mormonism doesnt do
She needs to “bear her testimony” of this, at a Mormon church. 👏🏻
There's also Marinda Hyde who was married go Joseph Smith. "Frank Henry was born on January 23, 1845. Orson Hyde left for Washington April 4, 1844. The difference in these two dates is 294 days! That is almost a month longer than expected and is basically physiologically impossible, especially considering that Orson Hyde had not returned to Nauvoo until August 6, 1844 (Andrew Jenson, Church Chronology, August 6, 1844)."
P.S. Only 4% of women even gestate two weeks past the average!
Mormons, the information presented in this clip is historically accurate and can be verified by you through a process known as research. Why would your god sanction such abhorrent behavior in a supposed prophet? Where was Lucy's "free agency?" As one of her descendants, I am ashamed that I once counted Smith as honorable & virtuous.
Please research. The Mormon Church is not what it claims to be. Perhaps this site run by active Mormons will aid you in your studies:
MormonThink d o t c o m
Can't ya tell which comments are from Mormons? Glad I got out of that arrogant, perverted group.
@dorisfenella •Por que no hay mapas en el libro del mormon? Solo hay fotos, cualquiera puede poner fotos. No hay mapas, ensenando tierras en el libro del mormon, sabe por que? becuase you can’t place it on Earth. Usted sabe donde estan? En donde estan los coins q habla en alma? Una civilizasion como la que habla su libro, tiene q dejar marcars, como, caminos, coins, records escritos. En fin
The reintroduction of the horses into the Americas began in 1519 when Cortez came from Spain for the conquest of the Aztecs. The only horses that ever existed in America before the 1500s were there millions of years ago. And they were no bigger than German Shepherds.
No I did not change my story. The AGE OF CONSENT was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. That does not mean they all got married at 12 and 14. Most of them WAITED until they were sexually mature enough. Pedophilia is the same as it was then. Pedophilia is characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children. Look it up.
Wait, there's more!
Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)
Joseph was possibly worse than Muhammed
I totally agree with this. I am so tired of people praising his name and making him worthy of been a prophet of God! It is insane! And yes, he was clearly a predator!
@ImLDSRU2 Joseph was the mayor wasn't he? The Expositor was against Smith not the city council. Once he died, there was no reason to sue the city council.
simple, obvious, and the best explanation
I agree
it was as if she lived in those days...
I testify that Joseph smith is a prophet of God and that he is a great man of integrity and a great disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I didn't know that sexual predators could be "sincere"🤦♂️
If you knew anything, at least 95% of his marriages were in Illinois. It was illegal in Ohio and Missouri where he married the other 5% of his wives. 8 years old is not an ideal marrying age. Neither is 9, 10 or 11 or even 12 for that matter. The purpose of marriage is to produce offspring. A 10 year old in the 1800s wouldn't have even reached puberty yet, making it impossible to have kids.
Section 101 in the 1835 printing of the Book of Commandments (later the Doctrine and Covenants) contained the following verse that was later removed. "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the CRIME of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."
It was later removed in 1876. Google it if you think I'm lying.
"I heard from a friend that She is the source of all the lies . . ."
Repeating gossip here are we?
In 30 years of studying Mormonism one thing I learned was that of all the "critics" out there the Tanners were the most scrupuliously honest and accurate.
When the Book of Mormon was attacked based on handwriting in the original manuscript the LDS church allowed Gerald Tanner to view the manuscript. They knew he, although a full-time critic, was impeccably honest.
@ImLDSRU2 I rebuke you in the name of the Lord and pray that you will listen to good people like Sandra Tanner who was saved from the darkness of Joseph Smith and his lies. I truly do hope you will wake up and stop fighting the truth.
What is rumored? The states he was married in? It shows where he was married on the LDS genealogical websites. And censuses in the 1800s showed the statistics of the ages of girls' first marriages. And scientific studies have proven that the age that puberty started back then was between 12 and 15.
Yes I did. What I find preposterous just like Joseph Smith getting a free pass on being a sexual predator is this flimsy excuse: "Applying the definition of polyandry to describe these marriages,
however, is misleading, as its compatibility deviates from LDS
marital theology." Joseph Smith's polyandry shouldn't be called such and somehow deserves its own special definition? Based on what?
@ImLDSRU2 I do not mean to hurt you, but I sincerely believe that you are deceived. Please pray for help and stick to your Bible rather than the man made temple worship that Joseph Smith crafted from the Masons!
You cannot fully know Jesus when you are following a false prophet like Joseph Smith.
It is easy to dismiss others as "anti-Christs" but you must hear the message: Jesus is the way. It's not Jesus plus Joseph's teachings. It's Jesus ALONE.
Have you ever read the Journal of Discources? The quotes I cited by BY are contained in them. I didn't pull them out of my ass as you like to assume which makes you the idiot. I have to question just how active a member you are because if you were truly active you'd know that the manual contains portions of BY's discourses and not the whole series. The church took selected quotes by BY and edited any references to wives and children to say wife making it seem as if BY was a monogamist.
Yet again, the Tanners tell half the story. Here's the rest: "Lucy prayed more fervently for an answer. She couldn’t sleep the entire night. Just before dawn, and Joseph’s deadline, she “received a powerful and irristable testimony of the truth of the mariage covenant called 'Celestial or plural mariage'” and "I afterwards married Joseph as a plural wife and lived and cohabitated with him as such.""
She spent very little of time focusing on the girls age. Her point was directed at Joseph Smiths disgusting methods for convincing these girls to join him in polygamy. Maybe you should listen a little closer to the video before making a fool of yourself....
@ImLDSRU2 Most Mormons I know try to say that his polygamy doesn't matter or that there's no proof of it. They may "know it" but getting them to admit it is like twisting someone's arm. Honest and truly, you're the first Mormon I've met who said they were glad he was a polygamist.
@dorisfenella
War
The footnote of the book of Mormon, suggested that the lenamites exterminations of the Nephites took place around 400 AD, yet it left no archeological evidence, by contrast, a much smaller battler that happened centuries earlier in the 1st century AD. In Palestine, demonstrates what one can expect to find, if the battle like the one describes in the book of Mormon had really accrued. Si me explico Doris? con todo lo que le eh mandado? fotos no pueden ser fundamentos.
@ImLDSRU2 Really? I don't remember any Mormon being as upfront as you, but I guess you couldn't deal with some evidence in the past, so you start spewing the "You reject the Lord" stuff. I reject Joseph Smith, not the Lord. It's sad that you think they are one in the same.
The funny thing about christians is that they totally ignore that all of their heros in the old testament had multiple wives too. So why do they hate the mormons so much?
@ImLDSRU2 Hey, I'm glad you admit it. That's more than I can say for most Mormons who get read in the face and start saying no one can prove he was a polygamist.
Joseph Smith knew about polygamy as early as 1831. There is a lot of mystery as to who was the first polygamous wife, but he did ineed do it. This lady is ignorning the fact that it wasn't abnormal to mary a 14 year old girl in the 1840s (the youngest of Joseph Smith's wives). Nor that there were many other women far older. This is classic one sided, bias, anti-mormon rehtoric that has been around since the beginning.
@cevansroxy The old 'it was not illegal so therefore its okay' argument does not fly. I cannot imagine how brainwashed a person would have to be to excuse or rationalize - or lionize - such a predatory pedophile.
@HomesliceDrummer Kill the messenger? Do you really think that condeming her for telling the truth about a pedophile makes your religion look good?
She didn't emphasize the age as much as the method in which joe acted. He exploited the situation and clearly took advantage of the girl. He was a powerful and influential person that used it for his own lustful gain. Sorry, you're off the mark.
Here's a quote by Zina Jacobs, wife of Henry Jacobs and faithful member:
I wish to bear my testimony to the principle of celestial marriage, that
it is true I became [Joseph's] wife at this time in Nauvoo and I
never in my life had a rebellious thought against that principle, for
which I thank the Lord. (Collected Discourses. Joseph F. Smith. Vol.
5: 23 December 1894. Out of print).
Here are a few points that destroys your man made god and man made gospel of bondage. LDS doctrine is a blasphemy according to the Bible. Next, You worship your church. Worthiness is not an attribute that God approves of. You are as filthy rags to God. Adultery is a sin and Joseph Smith "the adulterer" came in #2 to Brigham Young. The God of Israel does not accept lies as the mormon god does in the PofGp.
Go ask a Jew if God was once a man and he is confined by universal law.
@ImLDSRU2 No one sued because Smith was dead. Why bother suing a dead person? Was it legal for him to sneak a gun into his jail cell too?
You have section 132 of your D C there is polygamy still in your doctrine.
As Cenk would say "Of coooourse!"
I will not speak ill of the dead, so I just will address polygamy. The Mormons of the period would claim their idea of polygamy isn't really different than a man who marries then divorce's his wife. If he had three wives then who was really his wife in heaven. Of course, all three would be considered his wife. Being the Mormons dropped polygamy from their church over a 100 years ago, it is still amazing people still talk about it. To them it's not a moral question, but a salacious one
't thi
What lies you ask? Jesus is not Lucifer's brother. God was not once a man. Brigham Young taught that Adam was god. That is a lie. You cannot become a god. Joseph Smith was a Freemason. Your temples are decorated pagan symbols. So are your temple garments. Mormons were not raped and robbed. They were the ones raping and robbing and burning things down. It's their own fault because they went around spreading lies. Your prophet was the one teaching that it was okay to have sex with 12 year olds.
@dorisfenella Y q no ahiga ninguna literatura comprobando su existencia es simplemente algo fantasioso, Doris is there any document trail for the book of mormon? Are there any texts? That we can go to? Me dira, claro, hasta 1830, pero entre los eventos in el libro del mormon q segun termino en 400 AD y la primera rastra documentaria es 1400 anos, antes d poder encontrar alguna prueba documentaria, que me dice esto, que el Libro del Mormon solo fue construida por un hombre, este hombre fue jose
All it is is a lack of a contracts. witch comes down to a vebal agreement. witch if you can prove is as good as a contract. a relationship is a relationship regardless of how you look at it.
What a sad life Sandra Tanner has had.
She has allowed pride to infect her heart, rejecting the Spirit of God altogether, being left to wallow in the mire of doubt and negativity.
So is the life of a devoted and obsessed critic of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Besides the spiritual hallowness so clear in her talks, she also has no understanding of American culture in the 1800s as well as marital trends.
Getting married in your teens was the norm.
Do you not know how to read? I did not say that the LDS church is greedy. I said JOSEPH SMITH was greedy.The only love and kindness I experienced when investigating the Mormon church was when they thought I was going to be baptized.Then as soon as I said "no" they stopped being nice to me.And the LDS is not the only organization that donates money to the needy.And how in hell would you know if I have said anything to any other churches or not?And I never said I HATED the church. I said DESPISE.
@sirhood2 Amen :) Well said it. alleluya to the lamb of the Living God.
REVLUKE "What drew me to a CHRISTIAN Church, was i liked seeing the FOCUS on JESUS CHRIST & not so much, on Joseph Smith"
I still haven't witnessed such a claim REV. Every Sunday we take the Sacrament in which we each renew our covenants & promises made in the water of baptism (1)always remember Him (2)keep His commandments (3)always have His Spirit's presence within ourselves. A little over 3yrs ago I quit being a born-again Christian. There is nothing in there. Ministers & pastors disagree
@ragnarok042 So, all you have to do is label someone as anti-Mormon and it instantly negates anything they say? How convenient for you.
You are just as stubborn as the rest of the members of your cult. You say that there are no facts to support what we say. Even after I provide you with statistics. Look it up for yourself. Oh wait, you can't. Your prophets have told you not to research your own religion. They advise against it because they don't want you to find out the real truth. Look up the Book Of Abraham. Find out the REAL story behind that and come back to me.
@dorisfenella Your comment about Joseph Smith, which I have repeated here says volumes about you and about Mormonism, none of it good.
'Traitors and tyrants are fight him in vain.'
You are calling exmormons traitors? You are calling non-mormons tyrants? Do you have any idea how bad that makes you and Mormonism look? I reckon you do not, or you would take that comment down.
This is the hardest thing for members to accept! I think he was under Satan's influence on this polygamy. He apparently tried to get it stopped before his death , but Brigham carried it on . I want to read the stories of all of Joseph's wives . Can you give me a few books to look into ?
@dorisfenella En Ether 9:19, Horses and there were elephants. Los mayas no tenian caballos, la unica vez que miraron un caballo en las Americas fue en 1677 cuando un hombre blanco llego cabaleando. 1 Nephi 18:25 And we did find all manner of “ore. Both of Gold and silver, and copper, No se a encontrado ningun lugar donde alguien pueda decir q en ese lugar se derretia metal oro o cobre. Entonces como los Jeridites y los niphites usaron armaduras de metal?