The parents were "fed up with their son and his behavior"?! Imagine how "fed up" the children felt at the abusive hands of their mother and a father who allowed it. The wording makes it sound like the parents didn't have a child taken away by CPS. This is a terrible outcome of systemic child abuse.
Stop excusing this deranged murderer. Millions of kids go through similar, if not worse childhoods, but NEVER kill. He obviously was of weak character and took what he thought was the easiest way out (for his selfish self). He showed no remorse at all for what he had done afterwards and literally went out and partied. People who take the word of a murderer, who has none of the victims to countermand his points, are not helping the situation.
@@rivermoon6190 Some abused people can’t control the anger as they suffered so much and everyone reacts different he was never shown love by anyone so ofc he isn’t going to know to break free. she or he isn’t excusing him for his actions as the mother actions were literally excused she went through abuse from her father what did she do ?? exactly.
@@rivermoon6190 excuse me but not everyone is strong minded and the abuse is something that stays with you forever, it does affect the whole family. Internal scars don'theal . It's not an excuse, he became sick. You apparently have no clue, mentally abused kids nevermind the physical changes everyone. Just because no one else in the family didn't wind up like John doesn't mean the other kids didn't have problems they just handle it differently. So shhhhh about something you know nothing about. Get educated
A child name Sean that was an overeater but a skinny kid that was growing, mother felt she had to chain her son, and kitchen cabinets, a father that died not get involved in what goes on in the household, a mother that showed favoritism only to one child, that is so terrible what happened, but love and praise to your kids go a long long way, this reminds me of the scene in. Natural Born Killers!!
@@rivermoon6190 There is a difference between identifying the cause of someone's behavior and excusing or justifying their behavior. What Tom did was absolutely heinous and inexcusable. The abuse he suffered contributed largely to his deranged thoughts and depraved actions, arguably serving as the cause or A cause of his horrific crime. And you're right, other people experience abuse all the time and do not become killers. Many others, however, do. Human behavior cannot be understood in such simplistic terms of cause and effect. There are many ingredients that go into making a killer. Abuse can be a factor when combined with other factors but typically not by itself. Also, keep in mind that not all killers were abused. It's the same thing as poverty, which is quite often cited as a causal factor for crime. While poverty can and often does influence criminal behavior to an extent, it is not the sole cause nor is it necessarily a prerequisite. One need only look at our politicians, judges, attorneys, CEO's and stockbrokers to realize that oftentimes wealth can foster criminal behavior just as often as poverty
That whole abused during childhood thing can go either way I guess. My parents were physically and somewhat psychologically abusive to me and my younger brother. At around 14yrs old, I realized that getting punched in the face by your father doesn't fix whatever it is he was trying to fix. I decided at that age that I wasn't going to do that to my children. And I've got 2 sons now, both adult, and I've never laid an angry hand on either of them. They grew into good men. Same goes for my brother; he has a 12yr old son who he shows nothing but love and proper parenting.
😢 Am so proud of you. Glad you both over came the abuse. Truly Some people don't deserve to be parents. It's good that you both over came everything and didn't turned in to psychopaths. I wish the both of you and the kids a very happy long life. You both deserve it. 🙂
How horrible! The mother was a monster and the father complicit in that terrible abuse. What wretched parents! Tom knew what he was doing but the abuse he received can be a roadmap for an ending like this. I feel bad for the other children who never had a chance.
@@KlaunFuhrer-du7fr Did you miss the whole first half where teachers and CPS were getting involved and the statements from both Tom and his younger brother to them about the abuse that was going on? Clearly Tom is not the only source.
@@KlaunFuhrer-du7fr Literally no one is saying Tom is not at fault for what he did, but based on the facts it's pretty clear his violent behavior didn't just come from nowhere. Though based on your comments it looks like in your mind child abuse is fully excusable.
I'm a bit surprised that I've never heard about this case. How tragic that the cycle of abuse that began with Tom's maternal grandfather ended up destroying so many lives.
It is very tragic. I wonder if the grandfather himself was abused. He sounded mentally ill when he forced his daughter to get married because she kissed someone. I feel so sorry for Tom’s siblings.
I am from Mount Vernon Illinois. I was about 10 when this happened. It was terrifying. My girlfriends were neighbors and classmates of the family members. My aunts best friend lived across the street and knocked on the door while the murders were happening.
Not from Mt Vernon but have lived here for 30 years.. and I'm from so. Illinois... period. Know people who went to school with... and knew Tom odle. All say he was strange fella and this didn't surprise them.
I'll never understand people who grow up with abusive/neglectful parents then become what they hated so much when they were young. My "mom" completely neglected me unless she put me down or told lies about me to whoever would listen. I got pregnant at 16 & swore I'd never do that & 5 kids later, I never have. Trust I've had to fight the urge occasionally, but I tell myself "oh that's what she would say" & it stops me cold. Tom definitely took it to the extreme but it's sad knowing that if he'd just been given some love, attention & support, I guarantee this wouldn't have happened. In this case I'm glad he didn't get the death penalty & is getting a chance to figure things out.
You have a good soul and heart. I'm sorry you went through all that and I hope you are proud of yourself for rising above it. I hope you loved a happy adult life full of love.
I appreciate you being open with us here and shedding light on a similar scenario. It was extreme, but you’re probably correct if he had love maybe it wouldn’t have happened. It’s that old nature vs nurture argument. Thank you for watching ✨
I agree! My upbringing was horrible abused left alone for weeks at a time when I was like four years old and up. Or with random teenage boy babysitters. And like physical mental verbal abuse all my life. All parental figures were drug addicts. Just really fucked up shit. And I haven't not been lucky enough to have kids, but I wanted to have kids. But I always told myself if I ever had kids I am going to give them the best life that they can ever have! the total opposite of what my life was. I could never have turned into what my parents were or worse towards others or kids. Because I know how it felt for me so I would never have intern done that to somebody else. So I get that I don't understand how some people who grow up with fucked up upbringings turn into that. Like I've seen so many and read so many documentaries or whatever about rapists and murderers serial killers etc. And they're upbringing was like a cakewalk compared to mine, and I'm like how are you this fucked up? when my shit was worse off. And I didn't do any of those things and I would never do any of those things. To people.
@@unde.rtheashtreeI was raised 20 miles from Mt.Vernon, I forwarded this episode to my friend because this was her relation. We have talked about writing a book of retaliation because Tom is full of sh@t in this book.
Good one, Ash ! First of the year winner !This story hit home. My familys story is quite similar, without the murder, thank God. My mom married very young to a very nice but completely enabling man. She brought with her the abuse and inherited bi polar traits from her upbringing and her moms genes . Pop was a Boeing Aircraft career man and was gone a lot. My brother and two sisters and i survived as best we could. Sexual abuse and the whole enchilada. It's amazing to realize how great our family looked on the outside, compared to what was going on inside. A therapist heard our story once from me. She stopped me after a bit and asked, "No suicide or violence and / or prison with you siblings ?" She was stunned that there wasn't. I was stunned she asked. When it's your story, it becomes kind of "yea whatever" sometimes. I've been working with others for years now that have similar stories, mostly with the addiction issues that often result as a way of coping. Im pretty open about our story, bringing these issues out of the darkness into the light is our only hope. Thank you for presenting this families history in a perfectly balanced and kind way. You're a very skilled teller of difficult tales.
Correct. Those who enable abuse, or sit back in order to make their own lives easier while failing to protect their children are complicit in the same abuse.
@@unde.rtheashtree LOL I'm sure somebody, somewhere, bought it and passed it on. I watch a lot of true crime and I thought, "Nope. Even the "scarily accurate" sketches aren't that good".
@@omarra6781 It's always been a mystery to me how anyone could recognize a suspect from a police sketch. I've yet to see one that looks even remotely like the actual person.
During my life i wasn't aware of all these kinds of things. I remember John List but i thought it wasn't like that all over and on. Growing up in my little world things like that didn't happen. Now the place where i grew up is crime ridden. Weve heard of awful things happening here and there where i live now but its rather safer. Thank you Ash. Im going to relisten.
It sounds like a lot of people let Tom down. It doesn't condon murder but you wonder what would have happened if someone would have stepped in and helped him as a child. No wonder he had issues with his mother being so cruel and his father just allowing it to happen.
I read his grandmother did, but he took advantage of the situation. Everything I know about the family dynamic comes from his perspective. I don’t necessarily mean family, but maybe the DCFS workers someone outside of the situation.
Just saying, a parent who loves their children does NOT turn a blind eye to abuse! Cowardice is not love and Robert was a 100% cowardly father. The only innocents I see in this story are the children :(
The parents pretty much deserved what they got, but why kill the other siblings? Esp the other brother who was also abused! I guess I'm in the minority, but I have no sympathy for Tom. I'm also tired of excuses for people like him. There are many (too many) people who suffer what he did without harming anyone. The 3 siblings were younger than him and did not abuse him, and his reasons for killing them were totally selfish and self-serving. If you're in Tom's position, you can either decide to lash out and get revenge on everyone indiscriminatly, or you can decide to break the cycle - God bless those who chose the latter! Not much sympathy for the former.
So he was "abused" but when he got a chance to get away from them in the army, he quit and returned home.... so much was he "abused"... he is a monster simple as that...
Monsters aren't real. People who have lived through trauma and the neurological damage it creates are though. That isn't to say its acceptable to slaughter your family but when your decision making, emotional regulation and impulsivity are all impaired from abuse its why these things occur.
I have doubts about Tom's sincerity and Dr. Hanlon's conclusions but if the book can help prevent another family tragedy, then maybe the deaths won't have been for nothing
It's so sad that he killed his siblings. As for his parents, if the abuse allegations are true, they sound like a pair of scumbags who were messing with his head for all his life & basically pointed him in the direction of disaster. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I chose not to have children because I had a brutal mother and feared that I would be the same. I just didn’t want to take a chance. I don’t regret my early decision.
Men and women, take note. Bad parenting can lead to your murder. Be nice, be decent parents and treat your children well. What goes around comes around.
This is 2 counties over from where I live and happened when I was 14. It's sad she continued the cycle of abuse. It sounds a lot like Ronnie DeFeo except the father was abusive in that case.
I had never heard of this story. Many aspects remind me of the List family murders. Although it was the List father who killed, the passage of time between the killings, waiting for each member and clustering most of them together.
@unde.rtheashtree when I wrote my comment, I was partially blind from a migraine, and was searching for an audible story. Yours came along at the exact moment I needed. Thank you. It was the perfect distraction. 🩷🩷🩷
"Out of control freight train"? The guy who blindfolded his siblings and said he had a surprise for them? And showed them the bodies of their family? That shrink is incompetent.
Tom was the poster child for what the adult child of abusive parents can become. Not all of us do, we overcome it, but this is the outcome for many kids just like tom.
Sadly sounds like a cycle of not so great parenting lead to this. Not justifying what he did but the way you get treated, treat others, etc. sometimes play out not so good...
I was born and raised and still about 20 mins from Mt.Vernon, I still have the newspaper article with the picture of him in custody. This book and Tom’s versions are a bunch of BS. I have sent this to a family member, I’m sure you will be getting an earful from her.
@@rozphelps9977it has been since the book was first released that we spoke on the subject. I don’t want to mis say something and add to the lies. I’m trying to get her to reach out to the channel.
As someone who works with children who have endured similar trauma in early life I must question the qualifications of the doctor who was willing to publish private correspondence and information from counseling sessions, the fact that an individual is aware of his actions in no way indicates that he suffers from no mental illness. I'm not surprised by the sentence, an abused child who kills is often seen as a monster; while parents who kill their children rarely receive more than twenty years, if that. It's a reflection on our society that children are still widely seen as property rather than people.
I can vaguely remember this happening at the time. I remember the family photo, though, and I still feel like none of them really look like they should be in the same photo together. You can see the mom looks absolutely squirrelly….
It’s hard when you see your less than loving mother in yourself. And it’s truly frightening when personality disorders aren’t considered mentally I’ll. I suspect it’s because it’s not fixable.
He may have viewed the whole family as culpable. In cases where there is an abusive family member and no one in the family reports it the victim will take it out on the family in order to punish them for lack of action.
My mom was abused in every way possible. Abandoned by her mother, her father picked her up and had her move around relatives’ houses working as a cook and a maid since she was 7 years old. She suffered neglect, physical abuse, hunger, and verbal abuse. When she went to live with her father and stepmother a half brother raped her repeatedly for a long period of time. Despite all that she suffered, she has been the most loving and sweetest mother to her three children. She never neglected us and always put us first. As I raised my daughter I was complimented as being a great mother and I always credited my mother for being an excellent role model. She’s 86 now and my siblings and I love and care for her as she deserves.
For all those showing sympathy for Tom, do not forget we only have HIS version of events about his life, before all this happened. Millions of kids are brought up in similar circumstances and yet do not kill. I do feel that this particular story was narrated with a very strong bias towards Tom. How many of us, of the same generation as him, did not have strict parents and rules to follow? I suspect he was a bad seed from the start and the non-loving atmosphere did not help. Think of all the other cases we have heard of children who were given everything they wanted by parents and yet still ended up killing them. As for gullible reporters and writers, who fall for the lies told by such murderers, that is nothing new. I have no sympathy for Tom at all. He took the lives of three young siblings, whose whole lives were ahead of them. No excuse at all for that.
I agree, no sympathy. Let’s not forget he was also a pedo before the murders. I had a very abusive childhood and I’ve never abused my children and I’ve never raised a hand to anyone. I have huge sympathy with his siblings.
So he was "abused" but when he got a chance to get away from them in the army, he quit and returned home.... so much was he "abused"... he is a monster simple as that...
Actually, no, there is evidence from family, cps, the school, etc, etc. I'm not saying anyone should feel sympathy for him... that went out the window for me when he extended his rage to his innocent siblings.
@@KlaunFuhrer-du7frhe came back to be with his girlfriend. He was a teen in love. It's sick & sad that he killed his siblings but these arguments are kinda stupid. OP's comment isn't even accurate & pretty sure the other reply isn't either. Sounds like people who's judgements are based on emotion rather than facts.
@@personabc8765How was he a pedo. If you're meaning cuz of his "underage girlfriend", didn't the video say she was like 17 & he was 18 or something?! That is not a pedo, or even close to that. Did I miss something else? Edit: upon checking the transcript, she said he was 17 & was with an underage girl & claimed they were in love (obviously HE was at least). Do u know how old the girl was? Cuz he was underage as well.
Both parents are to blame not just the mother. The father knew EXACTLY what was going on and allowed it. Both were monsters. I hope the children are able to rest in peace.
As much as I agree his mother deserved a punishment, prison would of been better for child abuse and each day be reminded what a horrible mother she was, his father also deserved prison. Our children are what we made them to be and she created a monster.
I was good friends with Tom Was at his house with his dead father and mother and brothers inside! Terrifying to know that now! Tom was strange but nice to me.
Sadly, we only have the murderer's side of the story. We don't really know what happened between the kids and their mother. A drug addict and convicted thief is the most reliable truth teller about what his home was really like. Please. He just pulled a Ronald DeFeo and ya'll fell for it.
He could be dehumanized by his mother and go on to murder innocent children or be dehumanized by the army, be deployed and murder innocent children. Not much of a choice
As a kid who was adopted by parents like that, i feel REALLY torn passing judgment on this boy/man for killing his parents. And if his siblings had been shoved on him by those disinterested parental units, you can even follow part of his logic for offing his siblings. It would make total sense for him to believe they felt as rejected and hopeless as he did, and even that they might never get over it. Doesn't make it right, but it does feel understandable. It's not any one of the tiny things they did, it's the mass accumulation of years of being chipped away at, with no chance to even know there "could be" a future beyond the interminably hopeless present.
Tom got picked on too much. Nothing good can come out of that. The mother could have stopped all her extracurricular activities and committed herself to being a stay-at-home mom, paying more attention and getting herself more involved with her family's welfare, especially when things were getting out of control and she noticed Tom getting worse and worse. Tom seemed to be more of a handful to raise, and that's possibly why his mother took a strong dislike to him, being that he wasn't an angel and someone who needed to be kept in line more than the other siblings..Sean's only fault seemed to be that he overate. He was a growing boy so what's with feeding him like he wanted just as long as he didn't grow into a balloon. I think the onus should have been on Tom because he should have known to separate from his family in order to develop a life away from them (temporarily) since he knew how his parents were and weren't going to change. It's unfortunate all this happened. .
Of course the mother didn't need to have 'stopped all her extracurricular activities and committed herself to being a stay-at-home mom' what a strange and frankly dangerous idea given her predilection for violence. She only needed to stop abusing her son.
@@kaz1015 There is nothing strange or dangerous about a mother shifting her priorities away from doing unnecessary activities outside the home over to devoting more attention to the preservation of her family. It is selfish for any mother not to take some positive action when she sees that her son is constantly getting himself into trouble with the law. The abuse from the mother needed to stop too, but the reality was neither was going to happen, and that's why I also stated that her son needed to recognize this and to do something for himself by getting the hell out of there.
Wow what a surprise for Friday! It is a shame Tom didn't mean a wonderful girl who would give him the love he didn't get at home. I was mistreated by stepparents but I was never unkind to my younger siblings. I certainly didn't consider murder.
When boys boys had been taken into care for having bruising on them Don't by their mum and dad who stand let her do it the two are f.p . With completing , they should have got kids back spacey the boys
The parents were "fed up with their son and his behavior"?! Imagine how "fed up" the children felt at the abusive hands of their mother and a father who allowed it. The wording makes it sound like the parents didn't have a child taken away by CPS. This is a terrible outcome of systemic child abuse.
Stop excusing this deranged murderer. Millions of kids go through similar, if not worse childhoods, but NEVER kill. He obviously was of weak character and took what he thought was the easiest way out (for his selfish self). He showed no remorse at all for what he had done afterwards and literally went out and partied. People who take the word of a murderer, who has none of the victims to countermand his points, are not helping the situation.
@@rivermoon6190 Some abused people can’t control the anger as they suffered so much and everyone reacts different he was never shown love by anyone so ofc he isn’t going to know to break free. she or he isn’t excusing him for his actions as the mother actions were literally excused she went through abuse from her father what did she do ?? exactly.
@@rivermoon6190 excuse me but not everyone is strong minded and the abuse is something that stays with you forever, it does affect the whole family. Internal scars don'theal . It's not an excuse, he became sick. You apparently have no clue, mentally abused kids nevermind the physical changes everyone. Just because no one else in the family didn't wind up like John doesn't mean the other kids didn't have problems they just handle it differently. So shhhhh about something you know nothing about. Get educated
A child name Sean that was an overeater but a skinny kid that was growing, mother felt she had to chain her son, and kitchen cabinets, a father that died not get involved in what goes on in the household, a mother that showed favoritism only to one child, that is so terrible what happened, but love and praise to your kids go a long long way, this reminds me of the scene in. Natural Born Killers!!
@@rivermoon6190 There is a difference between identifying the cause of someone's behavior and excusing or justifying their behavior. What Tom did was absolutely heinous and inexcusable. The abuse he suffered contributed largely to his deranged thoughts and depraved actions, arguably serving as the cause or A cause of his horrific crime.
And you're right, other people experience abuse all the time and do not become killers. Many others, however, do. Human behavior cannot be understood in such simplistic terms of cause and effect. There are many ingredients that go into making a killer. Abuse can be a factor when combined with other factors but typically not by itself. Also, keep in mind that not all killers were abused. It's the same thing as poverty, which is quite often cited as a causal factor for crime. While poverty can and often does influence criminal behavior to an extent, it is not the sole cause nor is it necessarily a prerequisite. One need only look at our politicians, judges, attorneys, CEO's and stockbrokers to realize that oftentimes wealth can foster criminal behavior just as often as poverty
That whole abused during childhood thing can go either way I guess. My parents were physically and somewhat psychologically abusive to me and my younger brother. At around 14yrs old, I realized that getting punched in the face by your father doesn't fix whatever it is he was trying to fix. I decided at that age that I wasn't going to do that to my children. And I've got 2 sons now, both adult, and I've never laid an angry hand on either of them. They grew into good men. Same goes for my brother; he has a 12yr old son who he shows nothing but love and proper parenting.
😢 Am so proud of you. Glad you both over came the abuse. Truly Some people don't deserve to be parents. It's good that you both over came everything and didn't turned in to psychopaths. I wish the both of you and the kids a very happy long life. You both deserve it. 🙂
Caroline was not “disciplining” her children she was punishing and abusing them. BIG difference.
How horrible! The mother was a monster and the father complicit in that terrible abuse. What wretched parents! Tom knew what he was doing but the abuse he received can be a roadmap for an ending like this. I feel bad for the other children who never had a chance.
sure... who woudnt believe story told by a such a nice young man
@@KlaunFuhrer-du7fr Did you miss the whole first half where teachers and CPS were getting involved and the statements from both Tom and his younger brother to them about the abuse that was going on? Clearly Tom is not the only source.
@@willowproxy4346 sure.... poor monster, they made him butcher his siblings...its not his fault at all....
@@KlaunFuhrer-du7fr Literally no one is saying Tom is not at fault for what he did, but based on the facts it's pretty clear his violent behavior didn't just come from nowhere. Though based on your comments it looks like in your mind child abuse is fully excusable.
@@willowproxy4346 take him home... you would get along perfectly...
This is why you don’t abuse your kids and why you don’t pick favorites.
I'm a bit surprised that I've never heard about this case. How tragic that the cycle of abuse that began with Tom's maternal grandfather ended up destroying so many lives.
It is very tragic. I wonder if the grandfather himself was abused. He sounded mentally ill when he forced his daughter to get married because she kissed someone. I feel so sorry for Tom’s siblings.
Yes , could be mental illness or like him antisocial personality disorder .
I feel sorry for the siblings, and but I'm afraid I feel none for those rotten parents
The mom deserves no respect and no one should mourn her
This whole tragedy is her fault and her husband too
I am from Mount Vernon Illinois. I was about 10 when this happened. It was terrifying. My girlfriends were neighbors and classmates of the family members.
My aunts best friend lived across the street and knocked on the door while the murders were happening.
What a small world, I can’t even imagine what it must have been like. I appreciate you sharing with us ✨
yes i am also from mount vernon
Not from Mt Vernon but have lived here for 30 years.. and I'm from so. Illinois... period. Know people who went to school with... and knew Tom odle.
All say he was strange fella and this didn't surprise them.
I'll never understand people who grow up with abusive/neglectful parents then become what they hated so much when they were young. My "mom" completely neglected me unless she put me down or told lies about me to whoever would listen. I got pregnant at 16 & swore I'd never do that & 5 kids later, I never have. Trust I've had to fight the urge occasionally, but I tell myself "oh that's what she would say" & it stops me cold. Tom definitely took it to the extreme but it's sad knowing that if he'd just been given some love, attention & support, I guarantee this wouldn't have happened. In this case I'm glad he didn't get the death penalty & is getting a chance to figure things out.
You have a good soul and heart. I'm sorry you went through all that and I hope you are proud of yourself for rising above it. I hope you loved a happy adult life full of love.
I appreciate you being open with us here and shedding light on a similar scenario. It was extreme, but you’re probably correct if he had love maybe it wouldn’t have happened. It’s that old nature vs nurture argument. Thank you for watching ✨
I agree! My upbringing was horrible abused left alone for weeks at a time when I was like four years old and up. Or with random teenage boy babysitters. And like physical mental verbal abuse all my life. All parental figures were drug addicts. Just really fucked up shit. And I haven't not been lucky enough to have kids, but I wanted to have kids. But I always told myself if I ever had kids I am going to give them the best life that they can ever have! the total opposite of what my life was. I could never have turned into what my parents were or worse towards others or kids. Because I know how it felt for me so I would never have intern done that to somebody else. So I get that I don't understand how some people who grow up with fucked up upbringings turn into that. Like I've seen so many and read so many documentaries or whatever about rapists and murderers serial killers etc. And they're upbringing was like a cakewalk compared to mine, and I'm like how are you this fucked up? when my shit was worse off. And I didn't do any of those things and I would never do any of those things. To people.
I am thankful you were strong enough to break that cycle. And though they know right from wrong, some people just aren't as strong.
@@unde.rtheashtreeI was raised 20 miles from Mt.Vernon, I forwarded this episode to my friend because this was her relation. We have talked about writing a book of retaliation because Tom is full of sh@t in this book.
6:50 that’s obviously not a police sketch. Someone just made a sketch from the photo.
I thought the same thing
Agree
A Police scetch artist might have drawn the picture from the photo. Artists frequently draw or paint with a photo for reference.
@@carlcushmanhybels8159 what do you think police sketch artists are for?
@@carlcushmanhybels8159 well if they have a photo of the suspect then why draw a sketch?
Good one, Ash ! First of the year winner !This story hit home. My familys story is quite similar, without the murder, thank God. My mom married very young to a very nice but completely enabling man. She brought with her the abuse and inherited bi polar traits from her upbringing and her moms genes . Pop was a Boeing Aircraft career man and was gone a lot. My brother and two sisters and i survived as best we could. Sexual abuse and the whole enchilada. It's amazing to realize how great our family looked on the outside, compared to what was going on inside. A therapist heard our story once from me. She stopped me after a bit and asked, "No suicide or violence and / or prison with you siblings ?" She was stunned that there wasn't. I was stunned she asked. When it's your story, it becomes kind of "yea whatever" sometimes. I've been working with others for years now that have similar stories, mostly with the addiction issues that often result as a way of coping. Im pretty open about our story, bringing these issues out of the darkness into the light is our only hope. Thank you for presenting this families history in a perfectly balanced and kind way. You're a very skilled teller of difficult tales.
That mom was a wacko!!! Terrible!
Her man wasn’t a good man because he let the mother be cruel to their children.
Correct.
Those who enable abuse,
or sit back in order to make their own lives easier while failing to protect their children are complicit in the same abuse.
so what, doesnt excuse that evil kid killing his siblings like that, he's a monster
That drawing is far too accurate for a police sketch. I've never seen one look exactly like the suspect.
I also thought it was odd, but I labeled it based on how it was described. Thanks for watching!
@@unde.rtheashtree LOL I'm sure somebody, somewhere, bought it and passed it on. I watch a lot of true crime and I thought, "Nope. Even the "scarily accurate" sketches aren't that good".
@@omarra6781 It's always been a mystery to me how anyone could recognize a suspect from a police sketch. I've yet to see one that looks even remotely like the actual person.
@@johnbgood52 LOL I've seen a few that are close, but that's it. Most are like you said, not anywhere near.
It's no wonder these boys were screwed up
During my life i wasn't aware of all these kinds of things. I remember John List but i thought it wasn't like that all over and on. Growing up in my little world things like that didn't happen. Now the place where i grew up is crime ridden.
Weve heard of awful things happening here and there where i live now but its rather safer.
Thank you Ash. Im going to relisten.
I’m glad to hear you’re in a safer place Molly. I appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. Thank you as well 🖤
It sounds like a lot of people let Tom down. It doesn't condon murder but you wonder what would have happened if someone would have stepped in and helped him as a child. No wonder he had issues with his mother being so cruel and his father just allowing it to happen.
I have to agree- I feel like if someone may have stepped up Toms life could have been different. Thank you for watching 🖤
@@unde.rtheashtreefamily members did step up
I read his grandmother did, but he took advantage of the situation. Everything I know about the family dynamic comes from his perspective. I don’t necessarily mean family, but maybe the DCFS workers someone outside of the situation.
@@unde.rtheashtreeI tagged a friend who is related to the family, you will get the real story from her, not Tom’s poor me BS one from the book
@@129stacey far too late. And where were they when the other brother was being so badly abused?
Just saying, a parent who loves their children does NOT turn a blind eye to abuse! Cowardice is not love and Robert was a 100% cowardly father. The only innocents I see in this story are the children :(
100% percent correct. Their cousin said that Robert was completely under her thumb and whipped, so to speak
Complicit. You need to protect your kids, not Indulge and enable the abuser just to avoid becoming a target yourself.
The parents pretty much deserved what they got, but why kill the other siblings? Esp the other brother who was also abused! I guess I'm in the minority, but I have no sympathy for Tom. I'm also tired of excuses for people like him. There are many (too many) people who suffer what he did without harming anyone. The 3 siblings were younger than him and did not abuse him, and his reasons for killing them were totally selfish and self-serving. If you're in Tom's position, you can either decide to lash out and get revenge on everyone indiscriminatly, or you can decide to break the cycle - God bless those who chose the latter! Not much sympathy for the former.
No sympathy from me either, Tom only cared about himself and he didn’t want to get stuck caring for his siblings
So he was "abused" but when he got a chance to get away from them in the army, he quit and returned home.... so much was he "abused"... he is a monster simple as that...
Monsters aren't real. People who have lived through trauma and the neurological damage it creates are though. That isn't to say its acceptable to slaughter your family but when your decision making, emotional regulation and impulsivity are all impaired from abuse its why these things occur.
Crazy, such a deranged crime.
Thank you Ash 🌳
I have doubts about Tom's sincerity and Dr. Hanlon's conclusions but if the book can help prevent another family tragedy, then maybe the deaths won't have been for nothing
You are correct, Tom is full of it and himself. My friend is his relation and she has a lot to say on this subject
It's so sad that he killed his siblings. As for his parents, if the abuse allegations are true, they sound like a pair of scumbags who were messing with his head for all his life & basically pointed him in the direction of disaster. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Do not frustrate your children to sin. It seems the abuse brought out the part of him that was like his mother sadly.
Surprisingly, I never heard of these murders either. Thanks! 😊
Thanks for watching!
Those siblings were killed in such a brutal, up close and personal way by their big brother. No empathy at all. 😔
I chose not to have children because I had a brutal mother and feared that I would be the same. I just didn’t want to take a chance. I don’t regret my early decision.
Why didn’t the state take him away from her
Men and women, take note. Bad parenting can lead to your murder. Be nice, be decent parents and treat your children well. What goes around comes around.
That grandfather of his really messed up that whole family... The sins of the father keep passing down.
This is 2 counties over from where I live and happened when I was 14. It's sad she continued the cycle of abuse. It sounds a lot like Ronnie DeFeo except the father was abusive in that case.
Thanks for the videos
Thank you for watching them!
I am so happy for the new video! ❤ love this channel
Thank you so much! I appreciate the love 🖤
I'll never have kids, because I had extremely abusive parents and a meth addicted older brother. I can't risk repeating that cycle.
I had never heard of this story. Many aspects remind me of the List family murders. Although it was the List father who killed, the passage of time between the killings, waiting for each member and clustering most of them together.
Hi Ash, so glad you're feeling better ❤ thanks for another great video 👍
Thank you for your well wishes and for watching! 🖤
I'm glad you're back and feeling better. Thank you for an intriguing story. ❤
Thank you for the well wishes and support 🖤😊
@unde.rtheashtree when I wrote my comment, I was partially blind from a migraine, and was searching for an audible story. Yours came along at the exact moment I needed. Thank you. It was the perfect distraction. 🩷🩷🩷
I’m sorry to hear about the migraine! But I’m happy to help, hope you’re better!
"Back the blue" lol
Wow! Talk about a tragic ending to an ongoing cycle of abuse. Sad story indeed.
Grew up in abusive home, one brother abusive to women, other three not. No answer why some follow parents, and others don't
5:57 is there a difference between being ‘chained’ and ‘shackled’? 🤔 lol
They always got mental issues . If the abuse was that bad why did they have to give him a deadline to leave i would just leave …
Thank you, you're always kind and concise in your presentations
Thank you so much! I appreciate your kindness!
"Out of control freight train"? The guy who blindfolded his siblings and said he had a surprise for them? And showed them the bodies of their family? That shrink is incompetent.
Terrible amount of abuse. The crime was wrong but the abuse is a contributor
Tom was the poster child for what the adult child of abusive parents can become. Not all of us do, we overcome it, but this is the outcome for many kids just like tom.
New to your channel, very well done also nice voice for narrative, hello from Anchorage, Alaska
I am not excusing Toms behavior but we all have to agree that the neglect/abuse he received as a child could have brought out this terrible event.
Sadly sounds like a cycle of not so great parenting lead to this. Not justifying what he did but the way you get treated, treat others, etc. sometimes play out not so good...
So mom hated her boys....
I was born and raised and still about 20 mins from Mt.Vernon, I still have the newspaper article with the picture of him in custody. This book and Tom’s versions are a bunch of BS. I have sent this to a family member, I’m sure you will be getting an earful from her.
Do tell?
@@rozphelps9977it has been since the book was first released that we spoke on the subject. I don’t want to mis say something and add to the lies. I’m trying to get her to reach out to the channel.
Sad it ended like it did.😢
As someone who works with children who have endured similar trauma in early life I must question the qualifications of the doctor who was willing to publish private correspondence and information from counseling sessions, the fact that an individual is aware of his actions in no way indicates that he suffers from no mental illness. I'm not surprised by the sentence, an abused child who kills is often seen as a monster; while parents who kill their children rarely receive more than twenty years, if that. It's a reflection on our society that children are still widely seen as property rather than people.
She hated her son because of how her father treated her.a misandrist to the ump degree.
I get the parents. Dad knew what was going on but did nothing and let it happen. Mom was just awful. The siblings? I don't get it.
Jealousy?
@@ohsuzeyq_ maybe. I don’t want to think like a killer to figure it out. lol
I'm speechless.
How can one say a child is an unwelcome burden? Close ya legs for a start!
Thank you
I can vaguely remember this happening at the time. I remember the family photo, though, and I still feel like none of them really look like they should be in the same photo together. You can see the mom looks absolutely squirrelly….
Interesting! What are your thoughts or conclusion?
It’s hard when you see your less than loving mother in yourself. And it’s truly frightening when personality disorders aren’t considered mentally I’ll. I suspect it’s because it’s not fixable.
What drove him to kill? Beyond evil mother and worthless dad...like that would not destroy a kid in ways one cannot imagine?!? Pretty damn obvious!
Really Sad! hi Lady!
Hi! 😊
Definitely one of your best, thanks for distracting me from my shit day 😌🙏😌
Thank you! I appreciate you and hope your day gets better 🖤
I'm an artist. There's absolutely no way that's a police sketch at 6:18. That's a drawing that was done directly from the photo beside it.
Why the WHOLE family??!!! Mom, if anyone, was the most deserving, if anyone was.
He may have viewed the whole family as culpable. In cases where there is an abusive family member and no one in the family reports it the victim will take it out on the family in order to punish them for lack of action.
Shame about the siblings but no sympathy for the parents
Nice work.
What do I think? Well that mom made him what he was. So lesson learned?
Thank you for watching!
those poor kids. What he did to them was so violent and they trusted him bc he was their big brother :(
My mom was abused in every way possible. Abandoned by her mother, her father picked her up and had her move around relatives’ houses working as a cook and a maid since she was 7 years old. She suffered neglect, physical abuse, hunger, and verbal abuse. When she went to live with her father and stepmother a half brother raped her repeatedly for a long period of time. Despite all that she suffered, she has been the most loving and sweetest mother to her three children. She never neglected us and always put us first. As I raised my daughter I was complimented as being a great mother and I always credited my mother for being an excellent role model. She’s 86 now and my siblings and I love and care for her as she deserves.
For all those showing sympathy for Tom, do not forget we only have HIS version of events about his life, before all this happened. Millions of kids are brought up in similar circumstances and yet do not kill. I do feel that this particular story was narrated with a very strong bias towards Tom. How many of us, of the same generation as him, did not have strict parents and rules to follow? I suspect he was a bad seed from the start and the non-loving atmosphere did not help. Think of all the other cases we have heard of children who were given everything they wanted by parents and yet still ended up killing them. As for gullible reporters and writers, who fall for the lies told by such murderers, that is nothing new. I have no sympathy for Tom at all. He took the lives of three young siblings, whose whole lives were ahead of them. No excuse at all for that.
I agree, no sympathy. Let’s not forget he was also a pedo before the murders. I had a very abusive childhood and I’ve never abused my children and I’ve never raised a hand to anyone. I have huge sympathy with his siblings.
So he was "abused" but when he got a chance to get away from them in the army, he quit and returned home.... so much was he "abused"... he is a monster simple as that...
Actually, no, there is evidence from family, cps, the school, etc, etc. I'm not saying anyone should feel sympathy for him... that went out the window for me when he extended his rage to his innocent siblings.
@@KlaunFuhrer-du7frhe came back to be with his girlfriend. He was a teen in love. It's sick & sad that he killed his siblings but these arguments are kinda stupid. OP's comment isn't even accurate & pretty sure the other reply isn't either. Sounds like people who's judgements are based on emotion rather than facts.
@@personabc8765How was he a pedo. If you're meaning cuz of his "underage girlfriend", didn't the video say she was like 17 & he was 18 or something?! That is not a pedo, or even close to that. Did I miss something else?
Edit: upon checking the transcript, she said he was 17 & was with an underage girl & claimed they were in love (obviously HE was at least). Do u know how old the girl was? Cuz he was underage as well.
He looks like a psychopath
Couldn't blame him for getting back at his evil mother!
This is a generation curse! She brought it on her family.
It’s sometimes referred to as the “cycle of abuse”
Her father forced her to marry and brought it on all of them.
I’m so sorry that Tom has abused and it’s tragic that it came to this.
Here there, sorry I missed chat~~~Thanks for the video
No problem Kim thanks for watching 😊
Have a most wonderful 2024@@unde.rtheashtree
You as well!
Both parents are to blame not just the mother. The father knew EXACTLY what was going on and allowed it. Both were monsters. I hope the children are able to rest in peace.
As much as I agree his mother deserved a punishment, prison would of been better for child abuse and each day be reminded what a horrible mother she was, his father also deserved prison. Our children are what we made them to be and she created a monster.
I was good friends with Tom Was at his house with his dead father and mother and brothers inside! Terrifying to know that now! Tom was strange but nice to me.
I blame his parents.
They made him what he is.
Lousy parents, followed by lousy parents and no stability.
And i thought MY childhood was bad.
That mother was horrible and she got justice
God this is horrible
Hope he never gets out
Sadly, we only have the murderer's side of the story. We don't really know what happened between the kids and their mother. A drug addict and convicted thief is the most reliable truth teller about what his home was really like. Please. He just pulled a Ronald DeFeo and ya'll fell for it.
My friend, their cousin, was furious at the book, nothing but lies. I’m trying to get her to contact this channel. Tom was born evil
So we only have his side of a story? victim my ass....
So if he sufferred so much at the hands of his parents why he didnt stay in the army,,, he returned home... I feel his story is a BS
His story is
He could be dehumanized by his mother and go on to murder innocent children or be dehumanized by the army, be deployed and murder innocent children. Not much of a choice
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@@unde.rtheashtree
@@unde.rtheashtree ❄🐶❄🐶❄
As a kid who was adopted by parents like that, i feel REALLY torn passing judgment on this boy/man for killing his parents. And if his siblings had been shoved on him by those disinterested parental units, you can even follow part of his logic for offing his siblings. It would make total sense for him to believe they felt as rejected and hopeless as he did, and even that they might never get over it.
Doesn't make it right, but it does feel understandable. It's not any one of the tiny things they did, it's the mass accumulation of years of being chipped away at, with no chance to even know there "could be" a future beyond the interminably hopeless present.
Tom got picked on too much. Nothing good can come out of that. The mother could have stopped all her extracurricular activities and committed herself to being a stay-at-home mom, paying more attention and getting herself more involved with her family's welfare, especially when things were getting out of control and she noticed Tom getting worse and worse. Tom seemed to be more of a handful to raise, and that's possibly why his mother took a strong dislike to him, being that he wasn't an angel and someone who needed to be kept in line more than the other siblings..Sean's only fault seemed to be that he overate. He was a growing boy so what's with feeding him like he wanted just as long as he didn't grow into a balloon. I think the onus should have been on Tom because he should have known to separate from his family in order to develop a life away from them (temporarily) since he knew how his parents were and weren't going to change. It's unfortunate all this happened. .
Of course the mother didn't need to have 'stopped all her extracurricular activities and committed herself to being a stay-at-home mom' what a strange and frankly dangerous idea given her predilection for violence. She only needed to stop abusing her son.
@@kaz1015 There is nothing strange or dangerous about a mother shifting her priorities away from doing unnecessary activities outside the home over to devoting more attention to the preservation of her family. It is selfish for any mother not to take some positive action when she sees that her son is constantly getting himself into trouble with the law. The abuse from the mother needed to stop too, but the reality was neither was going to happen, and that's why I also stated that her son needed to recognize this and to do something for himself by getting the hell out of there.
Another family that shouldn’t have become a family…..
Fly high beautiful Angels.
Wow what a surprise for Friday!
It is a shame Tom didn't mean a wonderful girl who would give him the love he didn't get at home. I was mistreated by stepparents but I was never unkind to my younger siblings. I certainly didn't consider murder.
Hi Michael! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Hope you’re well 😊
That's PTA
When boys boys had been taken into care for having bruising on them Don't by their mum and dad who stand let her do it the two are f.p . With completing , they should have got kids back spacey the boys
The doctor screwed him again with the book
To be fair...it's the parents fault especially the mother
Greetings😊🙌💕✨
Hi! 🖤🦇
He never really had a chance did.
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