Notorious S.A.M BOTH ARE GOOD IN MY BOOK. Go see the movie, when it is FULLY RELEASED in August. Donot follow One-Sided and Biased People. Let us SUPPORT ALL DC MOVIES.
It's not really subjective. Quality in a movie can be objectively determined because there is such a thing as quality. It's taste that's subjective. Batman v. Superman is not a very good movie, but it's not a horrible one neither. I enjoyed it, but was very aware of it's pronounced deficiencies.
I always hated that element of Harley's origin that she didn't earn her doctorate with her own knowledge and smarts, but with her body. It's almost as if they saw her becoming too powerful, with too much potential and dumbed her down so that the males were more powerful. I'm glad Suicide Squad's Harley has made her way with her own ability, and seems to be able to hold her own against Joker in terms of cunning and manipulation. I love the crime boss Joker interpretation. It's similar to Nicholson's and Arkham's Joker and gives more to the character than simply trying to cause chaos. Luther was just irritable to me. I would have loved if they played up the millennial aspect but I personally never saw that. I just seen a spoilt brat with an extreme sense of entitlement.
+Ian Jackson power, authority, control, anything he desires. That's something we see with the comic version but this was simply a spoilt child throwing his toys out of the pram.
+Jordan Tate dude, already has money and power? I mean you could argue he's a spoiled brat, it's implied he earned his success through his genius. I don't see him being entitled to anything he doesn't already have and have earned. It's not like he's the type of character that loses all his money then whines and cries about how that should be his. That's not who this character was so I don't understand the "entitlement" the character has
+Ian Jackson but the money and power he has was never enough. He always wanted more and simply expected to be granted it. You can see it with the Kryptonite. He just expected to be handed the Kryptonite and was angered when he didn't get it. Although you could argue that he was trying to prove himself better than his father and Superman, but that again highlights his never ending thirst for power and wanting to prove himself superior to others.
Based on what I have heard from Margo Robbie on her Harley character, although the joker loves her it is still a very toxic relationship. It's addictive. And in my personal opinion if the Joker loves Harley instead of being dismissive of her, then that love in addition to his determination and psychosis, that could make him more dangerous for her then ever.
Correction. The Joker has always loved Harley even in the Animated series. The creatures of the show have gone on record saying that the Joker loves Harley as much as he's able to. They and Mark Hamill even say the parts of the Joker that are human are only there because of Harley. The most showing example of this is in a comic that is in the same canon as the animated series where therapists are able to cure the Joker's obsession with needing to kill Batman, after that happens he spends the entire comic telling Harley how much he loves her and showers her with gifts. Like putting a bunch of Harley motorcycles in a giant tank of puddin'.So having the Joker love Harley isn't anything new.
Three Reasons: 1. Jared leto and margot Robbie is spot on casting 2. The trailers show ayer does it wonderful and People Are just hungry for Another than zack snyder to the helm of A DC movie 3. The chances Are not to far away as Like lex Luther was and is more justified
I think you're doing a disservice to the character of Harley when you say her original intention was to be a poster girl for abuse. I don't recall that ever being the case. She has shown to be a more girl power type of character since she became an honorary Amazon pre-New 52, when she teamed up with Catwoman and Ivy for Gotham City Sirens and when she broke off from the Joker in New 52 continuity. She was already evolving as a character. Furthermore, she has been shown to be very intelligent even going so far as to psychoanalyzing Batman and figuring out he was Bruce Wayne before discarding the idea. She broke into GCPD by herself in Gotham City Sirens using psychological tactics. So on that front I have to call you out for being wrong. good video though!
I don't think she meant Harley is a victim flat out, but did start out as a subservient character which is very much true. It's part of Harley's charm to start out weak and dependent and to grow into a more self realized character. That is what I got from Grace's video and I completely agree.
My problem with Lex in BvS was not cos he wasn't comic accurate, it was that he was an over the top goofball that didn't fit in that movie. I didn't even like Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey as Lex either so i don't think it's a new issue
+cb2198 I disagree, I actually think he's a good actor. For me it was more of Snyder and terrio's fault cos it was the take on lex I didn't like, another actor wouldn't have exactly made it better. I actually think he is fine in the now you see me films and I thought he was great in The Social Network
michael rosembaum is the only real lex luthor...he should have been the first choice of casting...eisenberg is a great actor but he didn't work at all...it was too wierd for me.
I love how Harley antagonizes everyone around her. The fact that they have to rotate to the guards outside her cell so she doesn't corrupt them is pure genius.
My new logo is of me stood on top of Elephant Mountain (Mynedd Mountain) in North Wales, claimin Welsh Mountain for Yorkshire! As fellow Brit u shud know more or less where it is. Etc.
13:50 This was somewhat explored in Gotham City Sirens where Harley breaks into Arkham intending to kill the Joker. She goes from bubbly ditz to calculating psychological manipulator for each member of the staff that she meets as she makes her way through the facility. It was actually a very good moment for the character that I enjoyed. I'm happy to see this type of Harley explored more in the movies.
The problem with Luthor wasn't just that he's not like the comics. It's that this interpretation is really annoying and has a bunch of weird constantly changing motivations. Even if he was a completely original character, a lot of people wouldn't like him.
Lex Luther always hated superman for a reason and he would do actions that won't harm him but in this movie is a awkward adult who has daddy issues and hates God
Bat Bapeck But he's not like the comics. In the comics, Luthor hates Superman because he believes that he earned everything he has while Superman was just given his powers but people still love Superman more than they love him. He hates how no matter what he does, he can never have the power Superman was born with. And he believes Superman is making humanity weak by taking away challenges humans should overcome by themselves. In BvS, Luthor hates Superman because he's projecting his own troubled past with his father and religion onto Superman. He hates the fact that his father abused him and god wasn't there to protect him. And he's now projecting his beliefs about god onto Superman despite the fact that Superman has never claimed that he was a god.
its because superman is a representation of god he dosent have to claim he is lex wants to destroy god an superman is the closets to that so that is what he is doing he also wants to ruin the image of god so he makes superman look evil
Remember when they were filming and we saw Joker slap Harley? I do hope that between the time they first meet and when Harley joins the squad we at least see snippets of her becoming stronger overtime as oppose to being this badass the whole time.
Uh-uh, don't put words in my mouth. I don't want her to be an air-head, but I don't want her to be a master genius either. There are PLENTY of options in between.
+Beyond The Trailer sorry grace I didn't mean to offend you😢, it's just that you don't really explain must of your point about certain characters and kinda confuses me. and sorry about the misunderstanding
Well the thing about Harley is.. she is a master genius and manipulator. Remember the Joker had held her back, the one night he didn't and she went out on her own she 'almost' killed Batman on her first attempt. That shows just how brilliant Harley could be. In many ways the kind of villain she could be if she didn't have the Joker around. That's the scary prospect about her. She is brilliant, she isn't a master genius but she can be the smartest person in the room at times, but most people would never figure it out, because she plays them. If that's the kind of Harley Quinn we're getting. Not the "anti-hero" the comics have made her, but the true villain but you can cheer for but feel bad for it, that's how I'd like her to be. She's not a good guy and the comics got away from that by making her essentially a misunderstood hero instead of anti-hero. That's when suddenly fans started to go "hey wait a minute.." because that's not the Harley we know. Which is why there was such backlash with HOW she broke up with the Joker, beating him down, him trying to kill her etc, when the Joker would never care enough to do it. Also Grace, The Joker "does" love Harley, but actually coming to grips with that fact freaked him out so much he wanted to strap her to a rocket and send her off into space to blow up. I think it was Ivy that saved her actually.
I think she would prefer if they stuck to the original Mad love story. All I have seen her say about Harley is that she loves the original Mad Love story. She, if I remember correctly, has complained about some of the incarnations. I understand that. She wants Harley smart, but not at the expense of the Joker or the original story. I personally think you can have both.
+SAMUEL BOWEN it doesn't always matter how smart you are, you can still slip into an abusive relationship. Especially without realizing it's true gravity because love is a strong emotion, it drives people mad, it makes people accommodating and vulnerable. He is her weakness. ( in the comics she is able to fight her weakness ;)
Gonna steal a line from "The Killing Joke". I don't mind the different interpretations of the Joker, I prefer my Joker to be multiple choice. Ha Ha Ha!!
The problem with Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor wasn't that he was a millenial with a full head of hair. The problem was that Superman's arch nemesis couldn't even finish a blasted sentence, let alone give a speech, but he somehow had to convince us that he's a huge threat to Supes and humanity. I was probably one of the few who liked this modern version in anticipation for the movie. Then I saw the movie, and it was terrible. Which is a shame, because I actually like Eisenberg and believed he would do just fine. What we got however was a scatterbrain who at no point is convincing as a businessman or a villain. As far as the Joker goes, I still don't like the look, but the trailers did convince me of Leto's ability to make him menacing and scary. And maybe, who knows, there's validity to the Jason Todd-theory, but assuming he is in fact the real, actual Joker, if he's scary and intimidating, I'll gladly accept the look, and so far it looks promising.
Maybe I'm reading too far into it but something that stood out to me was how she called deadshot 'another textbook sociopath' when he told her he didn't feel love which makes me feel like because of her background in psychology she actually has a pretty good understanding of how people think and she might actually be pretty aware that the joker is probably too messed up to really return her feelings.
it's kinda impossible to win with comic book fans. being a part of that community, it's very clear to see that straying too far away from the original material will anger them BUT then staying too close to it gets you called unoriginal and makes writers seem as though they have no new ideas or viewpoints on characters and stories. david ayer honestly has some big balls to take the risks he did. especially with two such iconic characters. there is absolutely no way to please everybody. even if he had stayed completely true to both characters he would have lost. i'm really pleased you made a video on this, i've been thinking about this for a while! love your suicide squad videos :)
I like how Harley got her colors blue and pink. The blue was from the blue dress she was wearing when the joker pushed her into the chemical bath and the pink was from the shirt he was wearing. So she literally is a mixture of herself and the joker:)
Lex Luther came across like a Joker imitation. I did enjoy BvS, but it was different than what I expected. Suicide Squad seems good for what I've seen in the trailers. I used to watch the Batman Animated show and this truly looks modern.
I see what Jesse was trying to do with the role but with comic book movies you don't want to get too far from the source material. It is a iconic villain afterall
Great video Grace! I completely agree with you, and I'm really looking forward to see this version of Joker and Harley's relationship blossom on screen! Do you think they'll retain an element of Joker's abuse? And do you think she'll leave him like in the New 52?
grace... question... here you say that they brought david ayer, someone who doesn't have the background on the characters to direct the suicide squad, and made some changes because of that, and in another video you said that they should hire someone from the filming industry to write the wonder woman movie instead of geoff jhons, which one do you think is the best to make a comic book movie.... a director with no knowledge of the characters or a comic book writer with all the character info...?
people are more open to these changes because harley and the jokers personalities from the comics don't change unlike lex luthor ( imagine the outrage if the joker were sane)
I dont mind the changes cause I'm ready for a different interpretation of these characters because the version of Harley and joker will always be there
I think one of the issues of Eisenberg's L.L. falling a little flat is that he seems to have looked at all these iconic portrayals of comic villains (in particular Ledger's Joker) and wanted to make his mark as the most out there Batman villain yet. However, it just didn't work. A big reason being Lex is a Superman villain, not a Batman villain which the writers of BvS are also partly to blame (looking at you, Terrio). Lex isn't a lunatic that belongs in Arkham. He's a genius, no doubt pushing the limits to insanity, but not going over. J.E. played LL like Joker meets a mainstream business man. He gave him weird unnecessary ticks and such when the character is most successful when he is simply outsmarting, and being one step ahead of his foes. In fact, for those who are unfamiliar with his character in the comics, try to imagine Ozymandias in Snyder's Watchmen. That kind of high rise, playing the long game type if villain. Though unlike Ozymandias, Luthor is definitely only trying to help himself and also take out Supes. I actually really like BvS. But to me, Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was really off the mark. I could even dig the young, sorta evil Mark Zuckerberg angle. But it seems like Eisenberg saw the words, "comic book movie villain" and without reading any comic books, let alone any Superman books, went ahead and did what he thought that meant. As for these new takes on Joker and Harley...So far I'm optimistic. I'm open to Leto's interpretation. Look at his performance in Dallas Buyers Club, he can definitely act and put together a quality character. I also remember when the first images of Ledger's Joker appeared and some folks dismissed it as a lost Juggalo who was kicked out of the Insane Clown Posse. Luckily it turned out quite different. So I'm going try and combine being open, with having reasonably low expectations. Maybe I'll be surprised.
Oh yeah, I know how much u like cute emojis, so in effort to bribe my way into being mentioned on the show, here you go! ;) :) :* (not sure if my mobile phone will make them work! Either way, love the show. You're very intelligent and the show is both fun and informative! Keep it up! Excelsior, true believer! )
I have to say as someone who never read the comics that those changes are way more appealing to a mainstream audience. I can't wait to watch this movie.
While Harley Quinn was incarcerated in Arkham she began to think for herself and was not under the Jokers influence, therefore she started to think for herself, therefore she became more self reliant and she was pretty mad at him for abandoning her inside Arkham anyway.
The issue with Jessie lex was that he was given enough of a back ground. To the changes there was too much going on around him. So he kind of just popped up in the end of the movie rather than being involved from the beginning.
I always thought that while the Joker in the comics obviously used Harley, manipulated her, and abused her, he did have some affection for her. He doesn't love her like a normal person would, and not selflessly at all, but there's some moments in Emperor Joker and No Man's Land for example where he seems to show legit affection for her. He doesn't love her more than himself, and he treats her terribly, but he does have some feelings for her.
When the first picture of Jared Leto's Joker was released it didn't bother me. Joker has always been my favorite Villain, and whenever a movie featuring Joker is announced I'm excited to see how that actor will play him.
I think that the main reason why people really disliked Jesse's Lex is that he was completely different to the idea we have of him which has been cultivated in the comics and the last incarnations, whereas in the case of these new Harley and Joker, they are essentially the same characters that have been changed for the purpose of the film. For example, they are still intelligent, crazy villains while Luthor went from a calculating, manipulative business man to this idealistic guy that didn't really charm people into following him.
I'm fine with Joker and Harley being actually in love with each other. mostly because I've always thought that the Joker had some affection toward her in the comics. The only thing I am worried about is that they will make Harley too much like the Joker, I mean she is supposed to be similar because he is the one who made her the way she is but at the same time she is her own person even when she is with him. She has different ideas and looks at things differently then him on occasion. I just hope she don't turn into female Joker because that's not who Harley is.
I have a good hunch that the scene where the group is in the lab-type area in the trailers, that it's because Batman is telling whatever the squads boss's name is to have them infiltrate LexCor to get the kryptonite. remember, we never got a scene in BvS of who attacked LexCor, just the aftermath. I think it's the Suicide Squad that does it :)
The photo of Harley at 8:04 is actually the TH-camr Glam&Gore. Her and her boyfriend did it and you can see the full story on her Harley Quinn makeup tutorial.
At first i didn't like the new Joker's look, but it's been growing into me A LOT. Matter of fact i love it now, i am fascinated by the way he looks and specially his clothes
So, I understand everything you're saying Grace. I understand the Bonnie & Clyde comparison, I understand the new take on the Joker, all of that is interesting. What a great explanation of the material! But the reason I can't get behind it (and I'm usually all for new ideas and new interpretations) is that I think it takes away from the conflict between Batman and Joker. As you said, the Joker and Batman are equals. Foils of each other. But if they go with this new take, Joker isn't up to Batman's level. He's just not. Bonnie and Clyde appeal to younger audiences because they stand for a very immature dream of being irresponsible and doing whatever you want to do with an attractive significant other. This is a completely valid character construct on it's own but it significantly limits the Joker. If it was used with Poison Ivy, it might work. To achieve the dramatic weight of the character, The Joker is not someone people should relate to. Something happened to him in his past to make him truly understand the meaninglessness of life and how frail and stupid people look when they try to hold their lives and identities for dear life. He sees morals as an intellectual idea, not real. He is not suppose to be normal or relatable. He's a force of nature. He's like a natural disaster. Making him have a creed that is more than human makes him an equal to Batman. A creed that a man can only have under very precise given circumstances. Just like Batman. Because Batman is not normal. They are united through a commonality of undeniable tragedy. If Bruce hadn't been there during his parents murder, face to face with the armed killer, things might have turned out differently. They are united because they are drastically changed humans by an unspeakable, undeniable tragedy. It's not that the story becomes heightened, it's that the character's headspaces become heightened. So they act in heightened ways. That's where the drama comes from. Both of them have a psychology that operates outside of humanity and any social norm. Their respective tragedies (whatever Joker's is) were so undeniable that they couldn't escape it and were forced to change because of it. I commend storytellers who to bring their ideas to the table. I've been watching this pan out with some interest because of that. But from what I've seen and what I take away from this video is that they're setting things up that won't work down the line. If I see Jared Leto's Joker down the line face off with Batman, as he is, he's look childish simply because he doesn't have the dramatic weight to him. No matter how much scene chewing Leto does. This concept would work with a different character such as Black Mask but I don't see it working with the Joker. He just doesn't have the dramatic weight to face off with Batman and feel like an equal yet. It's like shoving the wrong puzzle piece into the wrong hole.
In the animated series joker doesn't necessarily love Harley but he does have some need for her. In the episode where Harley left and went to stay with Ivy, the joker ended up going after her. So he doesn't not care about her at all, he does have some need for her, but the joker is incapable of ever loving someone more than himself. IF YOU WATCH ASSAULT ON ARKHAM YOU WILL KNOW HOW THIS MOVIE IS GOING TO PLAY OUT.
The problem is that Lex Luthor in batman V Superman didn't feel like he fit in the movie. Since the movie tired to be more grounded, he should have been more grounded as well
But why would David Ayer make reference to the latino gang look almost 3 times in suicide squad? You have Slipknot and Diablo who is also fully cover in tattoos. The thing I like about the other members so far is that they are different from each other like how Katana is the no nonsense Samurai, Capt. Boomerang is the Euro punk, Killer Croc is the monster etc
Hello Grace! I'm a subscriber and always enjoy your videos and I'm wondering; are you planning on seeing and reviewing Swiss Army Man? As you say: "I'd be curious to hear your opinion on it." lol thanks!
After watching Batman v Superman, both my sister and mother [who do not read comics] thought that the best part of the movie was Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor, and that there were many references in the film that they did not understand. There have also been many changes made in some of the most famous comic book adaptations that ended up receiving people's praise. It is interesting to see how much studios struggle sometimes to adapt the original material in a way that satisfies fans' needs and, at the same time, is accessible to non-comic book readers.
Grace? it's the opposite, The comic adapted the animated series episode. Harley was created in the AS and became so liked that it was incorporated in the comics.
Eisenberg's portrayal of Luthor and Leto's portrayal of The Joker are two completely different situations. The Joker has always been known over the years to embody different portrayals in the cinema. So it's not supposing we get a different portrayal from Leto since we've seen that a little different could turn out to be quite amusing (Heath Ledgers joker). Lex Luthor however has always been portrayed as the same bald headed bad businessman and instead of Luthor to give audiences a performance they gradually grew on us, he left us with "the bells are ringing, ding ding ding blah blah"
My main issue with Luthor was that he wasn't as calculating as his comic self. His plans aren't as needlessly destructive and chaotic unless intended to be. Lex Luthor's strengths come from control through money and power as well as making the public believe he is the good guy. In the film he didn't think his plan through at all. Usually he loses due to his own hubris, not his inability to piece together his objective. If a millennial was what they were going for, then he should've been more of a polite, awkward, and modest guy that is secretly extremely egotistical. This character is supposed to be a diabolical mastermind who leads a group of villains against the Justice League. Instead we got a really goofy and overly ambitious nutcase that never had a clear plan other then "KILL THEM ALL! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!" Perhaps the writers will learn from this and get better in future films with his inclusion because I really like the idea they were trying pull off.
The whole point of the Joker is that nobody else could ever be the Joker. Nobody can be that unhinged and psychotic. It doesn't seem like they're doing that at all
Im really curious to see how they handle Harley's action and fight scenes. I'm interested to see how the stunt crew incorporates her gymnastic abilities into the characters choreography. Sometimes the non-superhuman, melee/hand to hand fights are the best. To use the MCU as an example, Black Widow's fights are always awesome to watch. With her gymnast style, Harley has the potential for some really great action scenes too.
Grace, what animated Batman movies or TV shows do you think are worth watching? Or if there is any other superhero animated stuff, I especially like the X-Men.
I think you got it when you said it "His favorite toy." I think that the best way to compare it though is in the sense of comparing it to a "pet and owner relationship." He loves and is obsessed with his dog, but he doesn't see it as his equal. But now that someone stole his dog from him he wants it back. At least I hope that is what they are going with it. Otherwise, I will feel that the Joker was degraded. The difference between Harley's changes to Lex's, is that where Harley improved, Lex didn't. Harley went from a "dumb psychopathic side-kick" to a "highly intelligent psychopathic side-kick." Whereas Lex, in my opinion, went from a threatening figure, a figure that imposes power and respect, to a person who doesn't. I get it that the way he acts helps him. Because he isn't threatening, people underestimate him. Which can lead his plans to success. In short, I feel that where Harley was upgraded and evolved. Lex was degraded and devolved. Thanks for the video Grace. What do you think?
The biggest problem I had with Eisenbergs Lex Luthor is that we never really see him at work in LexCorp. Sometimes he did his private practice with investigating Zods corpse and researching metahumans, so he is a scientist? But then LexCorp is supposed to be a company that provides advanced technologies like softwares, programmes, computers, weapons and what not, at least that was mentioned here and there, and Lex never seemed like a CEO of such a company, more like a goofy philisoph more versed in history. So what is it Lex? What are you doing? I never see you at work.
I think I'm ok with these changes to Harley because I've known her since the character was created and these changes are all things I've wanted to see in her. I think we've all wanted to see her take control at some point and be empowered even if we're just feeling sympathy for her.
I don't necessarily agree with you in terms of Harley's personality. She has a very similar psyche, personality and presence of intelligence as teased in this film. And in my opinion, while I do believe that the idea that Harlequin + Alex DeLange + Deadpool + Feminism + Hannibal + The Joker = Harley seems pretty crazy, if done well, it can really be something great.
So true, and to be honest I'm tired of the whole Harley going her separate way thing and being a lesbian, etc. I just want to see Joker and Harley together and happy for a change
It is said he manipulated her but Harley has always been manipulative.She is strong,devoted and looney. She also has a bit of a heart a huge one and not really a heavy grasp on reality.When she starts her own ventors or pulls of a big heist Mister J comes back or if another bloke is eyeing his girl.One comic guys were even afraid to look at her because of the the Joker killing someone who whistled at her.
I think people were more okay with Harley & Joker then Lex Luther because, we have seen a lot of different versions off both Harley & Joker then we've seen off Lex
In the comics, the new 52 version, Joker takes Harley to ACE chemicals explaining to her that this is where he was born which means he did fall into the chemicals. It is where he then pushes her into the chemicals and Harley is reborn into her white, pale skin just like the Joker.
I do believe that it's good to interpret characters in different ways and take risks but the only thing I dislike is that the Joker is possibly chasing down Harley in this film. What makes their relationship unique is that joker only uses Harley for his own gain. I don't want them to be just another Bonnie & Clyde, we've seen that all done before. There are really such great, complex characters and their relationship is what makes them interesting, dont water it down.
of all the problems with BvS Lex not having washboard abs was not one of them. i was fine with how Jesse Eisenberg looked in the movie, it was his behavior that was the problem.
What the hell is she rambling about with Leto version of joker? They show him in the trailer taking chemical bath?? Why is she saying he is just normal person??
it would be great if she put on the Harley accent only when joker is around as a submissive act to tantalize and also manipulate the Joker to lower his defenses for the team.
Harley isn't dumb. She CAN manipulate people and guards or whatever, doesn't matter if the joker did it to her. The Joker is her biggest weakness, but that doesn't mean that she can't 'manipulate people'. And I don't think that she was made just as an example of abuse. The Joker was also more of a business man in my opinion, in the comic's I mean. To be fair, the Joker does have some sort of feelings for Harley. Just look at the 'Joker' graphic novel 2008. But I do agree with some stuff, like Harley's outfit.
Can't really compare how they are in the comics to how they are in the film as the film never copies the comics 100%. They just adapt it from the comics. Comicbook fans need to accept this
Grace I've been looking around the ibterwebs and I've noticed that August 2016 has less films than usual and the only one that stands out as a sucess is suicide squad. Is this because of the rio 2016 games or are summer movies just not really a thing anymore because so many fail at the box office?
You described the possibility of Harley Quinn becoming cooler than the joker as "dangerous". It's a movie, not nuclear war. I love the new Harley and I fully support the changes they made to her character and not just cause she's sexy but because she's INTERESTING. That's the problem with the changes to Lex Luthor, he didn't become more interesting, they just made him weird. The changes they made to Harley makes her relationship with the Joker more interesting and her role in Suicide Squad more interesting. Why would I want to watch a full movie about a groupie when I could be watching a super villain power couple?
I dont think that these changes to Joker and Harley necessarily cut against their comic characterizations nearly as much as Eisenberg did Luthor's. I hope they dont completely cut out the abuse in their relationship, but I don't think Harley is an interesting character if their relationship is completely one-sided. I think assault on Arkham did it best, where Joker is trying to convince himself she's expendable but knows deep down she's the perfect partner. Movie Luthor, on the other hand, is a completely different person from the comics; what I love about comic Luthor is that he makes your skin crawl but is also so likeable, he can convince anyone that they have shared interests, while Eisenberg Luthor is so awkward and alienating that no one trusts him
Actually there has been multiple times that the Joker pursued & treated her as an equal in the comics & animation... I think David's taking that part of Harley's power & independence from the Joker from her New 52 & rebirth solo & Suicide Squad comics... In that she is Mistah J's equal but not on a Batman (more of an insanity level)... I'm kinda liking that they have evolved an iconic villian, anti-heroine, or whatever she is now... There is a recent comic in her solo series where she literally beat Joker up... It kinda tells how far she's come from a victim of abuse to her own person... But I also feel like in those flashbacks they most definitely address to times when Joker was only abusing her & weren't equals to at least show her growth... Love ya Grace
I wonder if this Joker created Harley because he was lonely. He tried with Batman, and couldn't crack him. So over the years he grew lonely, and eventually decided he needed someone on his level. So he created Harley, and then something happens and they separated. Now he desperately wants her back.
Jared Leto NAILED IT AS THE JOKER. To be honest, he is THE BEST LIVE-ACTION INCARNATION OF THE JOKER. GREAT, GREAT PERFORMANCE.
Notorious S.A.M BOTH ARE GOOD IN MY BOOK. Go see the movie, when it is FULLY RELEASED in August. Donot follow One-Sided and Biased People. Let us SUPPORT ALL DC MOVIES.
+leroy kong I hated BvS but Suicide Squad loooooks amazing omg
Totally agree. I know I'm alone on this, but I really didn't like Ledger's Joker.
leroy kong How much screentime did you originally get with the Joker in your pre-screening?
I don't care about the changes, just give me good movie.
They already have given two. But I know who you are.
I hated bvs, so..... yeah. I'm optimistic about squad though.
Jackie Estacado
You hated BvS?. Cool, but don't go out there saying is bad just because you hated it.
DaRtHSyCkO it's subjective bro, calm down.
It's not really subjective. Quality in a movie can be objectively determined because there is such a thing as quality. It's taste that's subjective. Batman v. Superman is not a very good movie, but it's not a horrible one neither. I enjoyed it, but was very aware of it's pronounced deficiencies.
I always hated that element of Harley's origin that she didn't earn her doctorate with her own knowledge and smarts, but with her body. It's almost as if they saw her becoming too powerful, with too much potential and dumbed her down so that the males were more powerful. I'm glad Suicide Squad's Harley has made her way with her own ability, and seems to be able to hold her own against Joker in terms of cunning and manipulation. I love the crime boss Joker interpretation. It's similar to Nicholson's and Arkham's Joker and gives more to the character than simply trying to cause chaos. Luther was just irritable to me. I would have loved if they played up the millennial aspect but I personally never saw that. I just seen a spoilt brat with an extreme sense of entitlement.
Entitled to what?
+Ian Jackson power, authority, control, anything he desires. That's something we see with the comic version but this was simply a spoilt child throwing his toys out of the pram.
+Jordan Tate dude, already has money and power? I mean you could argue he's a spoiled brat, it's implied he earned his success through his genius. I don't see him being entitled to anything he doesn't already have and have earned. It's not like he's the type of character that loses all his money then whines and cries about how that should be his. That's not who this character was so I don't understand the "entitlement" the character has
+Ian Jackson but the money and power he has was never enough. He always wanted more and simply expected to be granted it. You can see it with the Kryptonite. He just expected to be handed the Kryptonite and was angered when he didn't get it. Although you could argue that he was trying to prove himself better than his father and Superman, but that again highlights his never ending thirst for power and wanting to prove himself superior to others.
Based on what I have heard from Margo Robbie on her Harley character, although the joker loves her it is still a very toxic relationship. It's addictive. And in my personal opinion if the Joker loves Harley instead of being dismissive of her, then that love in addition to his determination and psychosis, that could make him more dangerous for her then ever.
Correction. The Joker has always loved Harley even in the Animated series. The creatures of the show have gone on record saying that the Joker loves Harley as much as he's able to. They and Mark Hamill even say the parts of the Joker that are human are only there because of Harley. The most showing example of this is in a comic that is in the same canon as the animated series where therapists are able to cure the Joker's obsession with needing to kill Batman, after that happens he spends the entire comic telling Harley how much he loves her and showers her with gifts. Like putting a bunch of Harley motorcycles in a giant tank of puddin'.So having the Joker love Harley isn't anything new.
Three Reasons:
1. Jared leto and margot Robbie is spot on casting
2. The trailers show ayer does it wonderful and People Are just hungry for Another than zack snyder to the helm of A DC movie
3. The chances Are not to far away as Like lex Luther was and is more justified
Every time I see Letos joker I can see Oscar potential
i dont think so
He will win an Oscar
or at least nominated
hell Fuk yea
he wont! and not because i think his acting will be bad actually i think he would be great but the script wont be as good as the dark knight
BvS Lex seemed like a manic genius. I liked it.
I did too
The only thing I didn't like was his weird moments (Like the Jolly Rancher scene, even though it was hilarious, it was still pretty weird)
+Michael Joseph that's was cringy to watch
the ultimate edition actually helped him quite a bit. really fleshed him out
I agreed with almost everything you said in this video.
:)
Why are you so ugly
+Beyond The Trailer I want to marry you
+Beyond The Trailer you are beautiful and a comic book geek i like that i am a comic book geek my self and i sing alot i wonder if you can sing too
jaylen dixon I wanna hear you sing
I think you're doing a disservice to the character of Harley when you say her original intention was to be a poster girl for abuse. I don't recall that ever being the case. She has shown to be a more girl power type of character since she became an honorary Amazon pre-New 52, when she teamed up with Catwoman and Ivy for Gotham City Sirens and when she broke off from the Joker in New 52 continuity. She was already evolving as a character. Furthermore, she has been shown to be very intelligent even going so far as to psychoanalyzing Batman and figuring out he was Bruce Wayne before discarding the idea. She broke into GCPD by herself in Gotham City Sirens using psychological tactics. So on that front I have to call you out for being wrong. good video though!
I don't think she meant Harley is a victim flat out, but did start out as a subservient character which is very much true. It's part of Harley's charm to start out weak and dependent and to grow into a more self realized character. That is what I got from Grace's video and I completely agree.
My problem with Lex in BvS was not cos he wasn't comic accurate, it was that he was an over the top goofball that didn't fit in that movie. I didn't even like Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey as Lex either so i don't think it's a new issue
+cb2198 I disagree, I actually think he's a good actor. For me it was more of Snyder and terrio's fault cos it was the take on lex I didn't like, another actor wouldn't have exactly made it better. I actually think he is fine in the now you see me films and I thought he was great in The Social Network
michael rosembaum is the only real lex luthor...he should have been the first choice of casting...eisenberg is a great actor but he didn't work at all...it was too wierd for me.
I love how Harley antagonizes everyone around her. The fact that they have to rotate to the guards outside her cell so she doesn't corrupt them is pure genius.
Jared Leto's Joker has grown on me. Wasn't a fan of the look at first
+Sebastien O. haha :).
My new logo is of me stood on top of Elephant Mountain (Mynedd Mountain) in North Wales, claimin Welsh Mountain for Yorkshire! As fellow Brit u shud know more or less where it is. Etc.
+Sean Peter Loool I can watch other vids as well as making them 😉
i hated the look and i still think its od to the joker to have those tats but, im quite sold for this movie so im blind
queenline_94 :D the tattoos are odd but they're pivotal to his past apparently
13:50 This was somewhat explored in Gotham City Sirens where Harley breaks into Arkham intending to kill the Joker. She goes from bubbly ditz to calculating psychological manipulator for each member of the staff that she meets as she makes her way through the facility. It was actually a very good moment for the character that I enjoyed. I'm happy to see this type of Harley explored more in the movies.
The problem with Luthor wasn't just that he's not like the comics. It's that this interpretation is really annoying and has a bunch of weird constantly changing motivations. Even if he was a completely original character, a lot of people wouldn't like him.
Lex Luther always hated superman for a reason and he would do actions that won't harm him but in this movie is a awkward adult who has daddy issues and hates God
Yeah, it was just so weird to hear Luthor rant about how god wasn't there to protect him from his father's fists.
Bat Bapeck But he's not like the comics. In the comics, Luthor hates Superman because he believes that he earned everything he has while Superman was just given his powers but people still love Superman more than they love him. He hates how no matter what he does, he can never have the power Superman was born with. And he believes Superman is making humanity weak by taking away challenges humans should overcome by themselves.
In BvS, Luthor hates Superman because he's projecting his own troubled past with his father and religion onto Superman. He hates the fact that his father abused him and god wasn't there to protect him. And he's now projecting his beliefs about god onto Superman despite the fact that Superman has never claimed that he was a god.
its because superman is a representation of god he dosent have to claim he is lex wants to destroy god an superman is the closets to that so that is what he is doing he also wants to ruin the image of god so he makes superman look evil
It's not Lex in the comics, it's his son -> apparently, people dont get it. no, not your fault, still the film maker's fault.
Actually, Lex Luthor was the least problematic element in BvS in my opinion.
Loved this video Grace, I hope you do more like this in the future!
Remember when they were filming and we saw Joker slap Harley? I do hope that between the time they first meet and when Harley joins the squad we at least see snippets of her becoming stronger overtime as oppose to being this badass the whole time.
I have no problem with these changes always up for some new ideas but we will have to see the movie for sure
grace,
You always wanted harley to be smart but now that she is your saying she should be a victim of abuse come on
Uh-uh, don't put words in my mouth. I don't want her to be an air-head, but I don't want her to be a master genius either. There are PLENTY of options in between.
+Beyond The Trailer sorry grace I didn't mean to offend you😢, it's just that you don't really explain must of your point about certain characters and kinda confuses me. and sorry about the misunderstanding
Well the thing about Harley is.. she is a master genius and manipulator.
Remember the Joker had held her back, the one night he didn't and she went out on her own she 'almost' killed Batman on her first attempt. That shows just how brilliant Harley could be.
In many ways the kind of villain she could be if she didn't have the Joker around. That's the scary prospect about her. She is brilliant, she isn't a master genius but she can be the smartest person in the room at times, but most people would never figure it out, because she plays them.
If that's the kind of Harley Quinn we're getting. Not the "anti-hero" the comics have made her, but the true villain but you can cheer for but feel bad for it, that's how I'd like her to be. She's not a good guy and the comics got away from that by making her essentially a misunderstood hero instead of anti-hero. That's when suddenly fans started to go "hey wait a minute.." because that's not the Harley we know.
Which is why there was such backlash with HOW she broke up with the Joker, beating him down, him trying to kill her etc, when the Joker would never care enough to do it.
Also Grace, The Joker "does" love Harley, but actually coming to grips with that fact freaked him out so much he wanted to strap her to a rocket and send her off into space to blow up. I think it was Ivy that saved her actually.
I think she would prefer if they stuck to the original Mad love story. All I have seen her say about Harley is that she loves the original Mad Love story. She, if I remember correctly, has complained about some of the incarnations. I understand that. She wants Harley smart, but not at the expense of the Joker or the original story. I personally think you can have both.
+SAMUEL BOWEN it doesn't always matter how smart you are, you can still slip into an abusive relationship. Especially without realizing it's true gravity because love is a strong emotion, it drives people mad, it makes people accommodating and vulnerable. He is her weakness. ( in the comics she is able to fight her weakness ;)
Gonna steal a line from "The Killing Joke". I don't mind the different interpretations of the Joker, I prefer my Joker to be multiple choice. Ha Ha Ha!!
The problem with Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor wasn't that he was a millenial with a full head of hair. The problem was that Superman's arch nemesis couldn't even finish a blasted sentence, let alone give a speech, but he somehow had to convince us that he's a huge threat to Supes and humanity. I was probably one of the few who liked this modern version in anticipation for the movie. Then I saw the movie, and it was terrible. Which is a shame, because I actually like Eisenberg and believed he would do just fine. What we got however was a scatterbrain who at no point is convincing as a businessman or a villain. As far as the Joker goes, I still don't like the look, but the trailers did convince me of Leto's ability to make him menacing and scary. And maybe, who knows, there's validity to the Jason Todd-theory, but assuming he is in fact the real, actual Joker, if he's scary and intimidating, I'll gladly accept the look, and so far it looks promising.
I am a fan of the new changes and really enjoyed the different incarnation of lex.
Grace, Did you do a Video review of the Entertainment Weekly or Behind the Scenes clips? If you did can you link it pls, I don't see one in your vids.
Maybe I'm reading too far into it but something that stood out to me was how she called deadshot 'another textbook sociopath' when he told her he didn't feel love which makes me feel like because of her background in psychology she actually has a pretty good understanding of how people think and she might actually be pretty aware that the joker is probably too messed up to really return her feelings.
the thing is joker has been a crime boss for 20 plus years.
he's a threat of one
therefore ledger did a modern portrayal of the comics, I am looking forward to Leto's original take
hasn't *
The thing is in some versions joker does love Harley but he doesn't know how to deal with it
it's kinda impossible to win with comic book fans. being a part of that community, it's very clear to see that straying too far away from the original material will anger them BUT then staying too close to it gets you called unoriginal and makes writers seem as though they have no new ideas or viewpoints on characters and stories. david ayer honestly has some big balls to take the risks he did. especially with two such iconic characters. there is absolutely no way to please everybody. even if he had stayed completely true to both characters he would have lost. i'm really pleased you made a video on this, i've been thinking about this for a while! love your suicide squad videos :)
I like how Harley got her colors blue and pink. The blue was from the blue dress she was wearing when the joker pushed her into the chemical bath and the pink was from the shirt he was wearing. So she literally is a mixture of herself and the joker:)
Lex Luther came across like a Joker imitation. I did enjoy BvS, but it was different than what I expected. Suicide Squad seems good for what I've seen in the trailers. I used to watch the Batman Animated show and this truly looks modern.
I see what Jesse was trying to do with the role but with comic book movies you don't want to get too far from the source material. It is a iconic villain afterall
Great video Grace! I completely agree with you, and I'm really looking forward to see this version of Joker and Harley's relationship blossom on screen! Do you think they'll retain an element of Joker's abuse? And do you think she'll leave him like in the New 52?
This examination on the Jokers (and the actors that played them) was incredible and made me subscribe! +1
This reminds me so much of the graphic novel "Joker".
grace... question... here you say that they brought david ayer, someone who doesn't have the background on the characters to direct the suicide squad, and made some changes because of that, and in another video you said that they should hire someone from the filming industry to write the wonder woman movie instead of geoff jhons, which one do you think is the best to make a comic book movie.... a director with no knowledge of the characters or a comic book writer with all the character info...?
The thing is larger kept the essence of joker. Eisenberg didn't.
depends on wat lex ur talkin about. They took rebirth lex which is even crazier
F44B3
should have said ledger
people are more open to these changes because harley and the jokers personalities from the comics don't change unlike lex luthor ( imagine the outrage if the joker were sane)
I dont mind the changes cause I'm ready for a different interpretation of these characters because the version of Harley and joker will always be there
I freaking love your videos i always listen to them even i'm playing games hahah. *thumbs up* good job :)
I loving everything that David say about joker and harley.
I like the new take of lex
At4.35 the picture of joker in the left corner, you can see jareds 30STM tattoo. Was that a mistake or was it left in inpurpouse?
11:45 Every time I see that “Lucky You” tattoo I laugh
Harley should never be better than Joker. It's Joker.
I think one of the issues of Eisenberg's L.L. falling a little flat is that he seems to have looked at all these iconic portrayals of comic villains (in particular Ledger's Joker) and wanted to make his mark as the most out there Batman villain yet. However, it just didn't work. A big reason being Lex is a Superman villain, not a Batman villain which the writers of BvS are also partly to blame (looking at you, Terrio). Lex isn't a lunatic that belongs in Arkham. He's a genius, no doubt pushing the limits to insanity, but not going over. J.E. played LL like Joker meets a mainstream business man. He gave him weird unnecessary ticks and such when the character is most successful when he is simply outsmarting, and being one step ahead of his foes. In fact, for those who are unfamiliar with his character in the comics, try to imagine Ozymandias in Snyder's Watchmen. That kind of high rise, playing the long game type if villain. Though unlike Ozymandias, Luthor is definitely only trying to help himself and also take out Supes.
I actually really like BvS. But to me, Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was really off the mark. I could even dig the young, sorta evil Mark Zuckerberg angle. But it seems like Eisenberg saw the words, "comic book movie villain" and without reading any comic books, let alone any Superman books, went ahead and did what he thought that meant.
As for these new takes on Joker and Harley...So far I'm optimistic. I'm open to Leto's interpretation. Look at his performance in Dallas Buyers Club, he can definitely act and put together a quality character. I also remember when the first images of Ledger's Joker appeared and some folks dismissed it as a lost Juggalo who was kicked out of the Insane Clown Posse.
Luckily it turned out quite different. So I'm going try and combine being open, with having reasonably low expectations. Maybe I'll be surprised.
Oh yeah, I know how much u like cute emojis, so in effort to bribe my way into being mentioned on the show, here you go! ;) :) :*
(not sure if my mobile phone will make them work! Either way, love the show. You're very intelligent and the show is both fun and informative! Keep it up! Excelsior, true believer! )
I have to say as someone who never read the comics that those changes are way more appealing to a mainstream audience. I can't wait to watch this movie.
While Harley Quinn was incarcerated in Arkham she began to think for herself and was not under the Jokers influence, therefore she started to think for herself, therefore she became more self reliant and she was pretty mad at him for abandoning her inside Arkham anyway.
so Joker wants Harley back? I guess he can't find his pants
The issue with Jessie lex was that he was given enough of a back ground. To the changes there was too much going on around him. So he kind of just popped up in the end of the movie rather than being involved from the beginning.
I always thought that while the Joker in the comics obviously used Harley, manipulated her, and abused her, he did have some affection for her. He doesn't love her like a normal person would, and not selflessly at all, but there's some moments in Emperor Joker and No Man's Land for example where he seems to show legit affection for her. He doesn't love her more than himself, and he treats her terribly, but he does have some feelings for her.
When the first picture of Jared Leto's Joker was released it didn't bother me. Joker has always been my favorite Villain, and whenever a movie featuring Joker is announced I'm excited to see how that actor will play him.
Joker also cares very deeply for Penguin, he even cried when he thought he had died! Other than that great video
Your videos are amazing, Grace !! Always professional, yet so charming. I feel like im listening to my friend
I think that the main reason why people really disliked Jesse's Lex is that he was completely different to the idea we have of him which has been cultivated in the comics and the last incarnations, whereas in the case of these new Harley and Joker, they are essentially the same characters that have been changed for the purpose of the film. For example, they are still intelligent, crazy villains while Luthor went from a calculating, manipulative business man to this idealistic guy that didn't really charm people into following him.
I'm fine with Joker and Harley being actually in love with each other. mostly because I've always thought that the Joker had some affection toward her in the comics. The only thing I am worried about is that they will make Harley too much like the Joker, I mean she is supposed to be similar because he is the one who made her the way she is but at the same time she is her own person even when she is with him. She has different ideas and looks at things differently then him on occasion. I just hope she don't turn into female Joker because that's not who Harley is.
The pic you used of harlequin at 8:04 isn't Margot Robbie. It's fan made art made by Myke and her boyfriend Chase from glamandgore (TH-cam channel)
I have a good hunch that the scene where the group is in the lab-type area in the trailers, that it's because Batman is telling whatever the squads boss's name is to have them infiltrate LexCor to get the kryptonite. remember, we never got a scene in BvS of who attacked LexCor, just the aftermath. I think it's the Suicide Squad that does it :)
Maybe in the Batman movie they'll show Harley in her early days as jokers playtoy and show her evolve into the macho woman she is now
The photo of Harley at 8:04 is actually the TH-camr Glam&Gore. Her and her boyfriend did it and you can see the full story on her Harley Quinn makeup tutorial.
At first i didn't like the new Joker's look, but it's been growing into me A LOT. Matter of fact i love it now, i am fascinated by the way he looks and specially his clothes
So, I understand everything you're saying Grace. I understand the Bonnie & Clyde comparison, I understand the new take on the Joker, all of that is interesting. What a great explanation of the material! But the reason I can't get behind it (and I'm usually all for new ideas and new interpretations) is that I think it takes away from the conflict between Batman and Joker. As you said, the Joker and Batman are equals. Foils of each other. But if they go with this new take, Joker isn't up to Batman's level. He's just not. Bonnie and Clyde appeal to younger audiences because they stand for a very immature dream of being irresponsible and doing whatever you want to do with an attractive significant other. This is a completely valid character construct on it's own but it significantly limits the Joker. If it was used with Poison Ivy, it might work. To achieve the dramatic weight of the character, The Joker is not someone people should relate to. Something happened to him in his past to make him truly understand the meaninglessness of life and how frail and stupid people look when they try to hold their lives and identities for dear life. He sees morals as an intellectual idea, not real. He is not suppose to be normal or relatable. He's a force of nature. He's like a natural disaster. Making him have a creed that is more than human makes him an equal to Batman. A creed that a man can only have under very precise given circumstances. Just like Batman. Because Batman is not normal. They are united through a commonality of undeniable tragedy. If Bruce hadn't been there during his parents murder, face to face with the armed killer, things might have turned out differently. They are united because they are drastically changed humans by an unspeakable, undeniable tragedy. It's not that the story becomes heightened, it's that the character's headspaces become heightened. So they act in heightened ways. That's where the drama comes from. Both of them have a psychology that operates outside of humanity and any social norm. Their respective tragedies (whatever Joker's is) were so undeniable that they couldn't escape it and were forced to change because of it. I commend storytellers who to bring their ideas to the table. I've been watching this pan out with some interest because of that. But from what I've seen and what I take away from this video is that they're setting things up that won't work down the line. If I see Jared Leto's Joker down the line face off with Batman, as he is, he's look childish simply because he doesn't have the dramatic weight to him. No matter how much scene chewing Leto does. This concept would work with a different character such as Black Mask but I don't see it working with the Joker. He just doesn't have the dramatic weight to face off with Batman and feel like an equal yet. It's like shoving the wrong puzzle piece into the wrong hole.
In the animated series joker doesn't necessarily love Harley but he does have some need for her. In the episode where Harley left and went to stay with Ivy, the joker ended up going after her. So he doesn't not care about her at all, he does have some need for her, but the joker is incapable of ever loving someone more than himself. IF YOU WATCH ASSAULT ON ARKHAM YOU WILL KNOW HOW THIS MOVIE IS GOING TO PLAY OUT.
The problem is that Lex Luthor in batman V Superman didn't feel like he fit in the movie. Since the movie tired to be more grounded, he should have been more grounded as well
But why would David Ayer make reference to the latino gang look almost 3 times in suicide squad? You have Slipknot and Diablo who is also fully cover in tattoos. The thing I like about the other members so far is that they are different from each other like how Katana is the no nonsense Samurai, Capt. Boomerang is the Euro punk, Killer Croc is the monster etc
Hello Grace! I'm a subscriber and always enjoy your videos and I'm wondering; are you planning on seeing and reviewing Swiss Army Man? As you say: "I'd be curious to hear your opinion on it." lol thanks!
After watching Batman v Superman, both my sister and mother [who do not read comics] thought that the best part of the movie was Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor, and that there were many references in the film that they did not understand. There have also been many changes made in some of the most famous comic book adaptations that ended up receiving people's praise. It is interesting to see how much studios struggle sometimes to adapt the original material in a way that satisfies fans' needs and, at the same time, is accessible to non-comic book readers.
Grace? it's the opposite, The comic adapted the animated series episode. Harley was created in the AS and became so liked that it was incorporated in the comics.
yep
She knows that
Diana Gonzalez Then is even worst, because she stated the opposite in this video.
+Diana Gonzalez I don't think she does
Eisenberg's portrayal of Luthor and Leto's portrayal of The Joker are two completely different situations. The Joker has always been known over the years to embody different portrayals in the cinema. So it's not supposing we get a different portrayal from Leto since we've seen that a little different could turn out to be quite amusing (Heath Ledgers joker). Lex Luthor however has always been portrayed as the same bald headed bad businessman and instead of Luthor to give audiences a performance they gradually grew on us, he left us with "the bells are ringing, ding ding ding blah blah"
My main issue with Luthor was that he wasn't as calculating as his comic self. His plans aren't as needlessly destructive and chaotic unless intended to be. Lex Luthor's strengths come from control through money and power as well as making the public believe he is the good guy. In the film he didn't think his plan through at all. Usually he loses due to his own hubris, not his inability to piece together his objective. If a millennial was what they were going for, then he should've been more of a polite, awkward, and modest guy that is secretly extremely egotistical. This character is supposed to be a diabolical mastermind who leads a group of villains against the Justice League. Instead we got a really goofy and overly ambitious nutcase that never had a clear plan other then "KILL THEM ALL! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!" Perhaps the writers will learn from this and get better in future films with his inclusion because I really like the idea they were trying pull off.
The whole point of the Joker is that nobody else could ever be the Joker. Nobody can be that unhinged and psychotic. It doesn't seem like they're doing that at all
Im really curious to see how they handle Harley's action and fight scenes. I'm interested to see how the stunt crew incorporates her gymnastic abilities into the characters choreography.
Sometimes the non-superhuman, melee/hand to hand fights are the best. To use the MCU as an example, Black Widow's fights are always awesome to watch.
With her gymnast style, Harley has the potential for some really great action scenes too.
Grace, what animated Batman movies or TV shows do you think are worth watching? Or if there is any other superhero animated stuff, I especially like the X-Men.
Jesse Eisenberg was The Riddler of BVS.
Does anyone know the name of the phone cover joker uses in suicide squad
Loved the video and I really liked Lex in BvS. A less traditional take on the character and I feel it worked well.
I think you got it when you said it "His favorite toy." I think that the best way to compare it though is in the sense of comparing it to a "pet and owner relationship." He loves and is obsessed with his dog, but he doesn't see it as his equal. But now that someone stole his dog from him he wants it back. At least I hope that is what they are going with it. Otherwise, I will feel that the Joker was degraded.
The difference between Harley's changes to Lex's, is that where Harley improved, Lex didn't. Harley went from a "dumb psychopathic side-kick" to a "highly intelligent psychopathic side-kick." Whereas Lex, in my opinion, went from a threatening figure, a figure that imposes power and respect, to a person who doesn't. I get it that the way he acts helps him. Because he isn't threatening, people underestimate him. Which can lead his plans to success. In short, I feel that where Harley was upgraded and evolved. Lex was degraded and devolved.
Thanks for the video Grace. What do you think?
The biggest problem I had with Eisenbergs Lex Luthor is that we never really see him at work in LexCorp. Sometimes he did his private practice with investigating Zods corpse and researching metahumans, so he is a scientist? But then LexCorp is supposed to be a company that provides advanced technologies like softwares, programmes, computers, weapons and what not, at least that was mentioned here and there, and Lex never seemed like a CEO of such a company, more like a goofy philisoph more versed in history. So what is it Lex? What are you doing? I never see you at work.
I think I'm ok with these changes to Harley because I've known her since the character was created and these changes are all things I've wanted to see in her. I think we've all wanted to see her take control at some point and be empowered even if we're just feeling sympathy for her.
Nice editing 😃 Keep the good Work
I don't necessarily agree with you in terms of Harley's personality. She has a very similar psyche, personality and presence of intelligence as teased in this film. And in my opinion, while I do believe that the idea that Harlequin + Alex DeLange + Deadpool + Feminism + Hannibal + The Joker = Harley seems pretty crazy, if done well, it can really be something great.
Grace I disagree they've had an abusive relationship but I think the joker HAS had some type of love for her even tho he uses her
So true, and to be honest I'm tired of the whole Harley going her separate way thing and being a lesbian, etc. I just want to see Joker and Harley together and happy for a change
yeah, both Marvel and DC should stop getting their writers from Tumblr.
It is said he manipulated her but Harley has always been manipulative.She is strong,devoted and looney. She also has a bit of a heart a huge one and not really a heavy grasp on reality.When she starts her own ventors or pulls of a big heist Mister J comes back or if another bloke is eyeing his girl.One comic guys were even afraid to look at her because of the the Joker killing someone who whistled at her.
Okay with both changes. Love when the envelope is pushed and we take risks
I think people were more okay with Harley & Joker then Lex Luther because, we have seen a lot of different versions off both Harley & Joker then we've seen off Lex
so this joker doesn't fall into a vat a chemicals? There's a scene of harley and him falling into a the ace chemicals.
In the comics, the new 52 version, Joker takes Harley to ACE chemicals explaining to her that this is where he was born which means he did fall into the chemicals. It is where he then pushes her into the chemicals and Harley is reborn into her white, pale skin just like the Joker.
+salma sandoval oh ok thank u. see I never read any of the new 52 stuff
+salma sandoval which comic is this?
I do believe that it's good to interpret characters in different ways and take risks but the only thing I dislike is that the Joker is possibly chasing down Harley in this film. What makes their relationship unique is that joker only uses Harley for his own gain. I don't want them to be just another Bonnie & Clyde, we've seen that all done before. There are really such great, complex characters and their relationship is what makes them interesting, dont water it down.
of all the problems with BvS Lex not having washboard abs was not one of them. i was fine with how Jesse Eisenberg looked in the movie, it was his behavior that was the problem.
What the hell is she rambling about with Leto version of joker? They show him in the trailer taking chemical bath?? Why is she saying he is just normal person??
Always love your point of view :)
it would be great if she put on the Harley accent only when joker is around as a submissive act to tantalize and also manipulate the Joker to lower his defenses for the team.
Harley isn't dumb. She CAN manipulate people and guards or whatever, doesn't matter if the joker did it to her. The Joker is her biggest weakness, but that doesn't mean that she can't 'manipulate people'. And I don't think that she was made just as an example of abuse. The Joker was also more of a business man in my opinion, in the comic's I mean. To be fair, the Joker does have some sort of feelings for Harley. Just look at the 'Joker' graphic novel 2008. But I do agree with some stuff, like Harley's outfit.
Great video Grace! You're one of my favorite TH-camrs!
Can't really compare how they are in the comics to how they are in the film as the film never copies the comics 100%. They just adapt it from the comics. Comicbook fans need to accept this
Grace I've been looking around the ibterwebs and I've noticed that August 2016 has less films than usual and the only one that stands out as a sucess is suicide squad. Is this because of the rio 2016 games or are summer movies just not really a thing anymore because so many fail at the box office?
rarely any fail. August is just not a hot month. DC has specifically Targeted cold months such as March, August, June
June is not a cold month.
You described the possibility of Harley Quinn becoming cooler than the joker as "dangerous". It's a movie, not nuclear war. I love the new Harley and I fully support the changes they made to her character and not just cause she's sexy but because she's INTERESTING. That's the problem with the changes to Lex Luthor, he didn't become more interesting, they just made him weird. The changes they made to Harley makes her relationship with the Joker more interesting and her role in Suicide Squad more interesting. Why would I want to watch a full movie about a groupie when I could be watching a super villain power couple?
I dont think that these changes to Joker and Harley necessarily cut against their comic characterizations nearly as much as Eisenberg did Luthor's. I hope they dont completely cut out the abuse in their relationship, but I don't think Harley is an interesting character if their relationship is completely one-sided. I think assault on Arkham did it best, where Joker is trying to convince himself she's expendable but knows deep down she's the perfect partner. Movie Luthor, on the other hand, is a completely different person from the comics; what I love about comic Luthor is that he makes your skin crawl but is also so likeable, he can convince anyone that they have shared interests, while Eisenberg Luthor is so awkward and alienating that no one trusts him
Just because the joker may love her more doesn't mean he might not be abusive towards Harley. We will have to see.
I have grown to absolutely love BvS since the extended cut came out
if you don't edit the face cam footage, how many takes does it take to do one video like this?
Well, you can easily re-imagine the Joker because he doesn't necessarily have a set origin.
Actually there has been multiple times that the Joker pursued & treated her as an equal in the comics & animation... I think David's taking that part of Harley's power & independence from the Joker from her New 52 & rebirth solo & Suicide Squad comics... In that she is Mistah J's equal but not on a Batman (more of an insanity level)... I'm kinda liking that they have evolved an iconic villian, anti-heroine, or whatever she is now... There is a recent comic in her solo series where she literally beat Joker up... It kinda tells how far she's come from a victim of abuse to her own person... But I also feel like in those flashbacks they most definitely address to times when Joker was only abusing her & weren't equals to at least show her growth... Love ya Grace
I wonder if this Joker created Harley because he was lonely. He tried with Batman, and couldn't crack him. So over the years he grew lonely, and eventually decided he needed someone on his level. So he created Harley, and then something happens and they separated. Now he desperately wants her back.