I know im asking the wrong place but does someone know a tool to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me.
Good honest advice. I do somewhat disagree with the "not being fed" reason not to leave As you described the situation - the person that that only does the Christian thing at church on Sunday - I agree. People should seek after God themselves on their own time and not put the growth of their Christian faith on their pastor. Completely agree. I do believe though that many churches as a whole these days leave out mature Christians in favor to cater to non-believers, building everything about themselves to seem exciting to people. I've been to churches that could go a whole sermon without quoting one line of scripture. This could get into a whole debate about the purpose of church, or more specifically who the church is. I agree that fellowship with other Christians is very important, but that can be done at a park or coffee shop - most churches have one of those anyways. If there is nothing else of benefit on Sunday morning, then it is hard to justify being a part of it. If all you're there for is the coffee shop, then save your church donation that goes to paying for the building and everything else and drink coffee with believers at the coffee shop or park and give that money to charity.
This videos popped up on my recommended just in time. I believe God led me to this at the right moment. Thank you so much. You guys are an inspiration. Hopefully I can take what I've learned from this and help out my worship group that I'm leading.
Four years ago, this was the specific video that began my road to being a TH-cam and podcast junkie. I was in a terrible place after leaving my former church. This helped to confirm some things and challenge me in others. Thank you!
Thank you for this encouraging wisdom. I lead the choir in a southern Baptist Church that brought in an Independent Baptist pastor and now we are having to make changes, which I'm willing to try; however, I do not feel my pastor has my back. He is supporting the new Independent crowd he's drawing and not supporting me as I attempt to change.
Thanks again for a great discussion. I hope you both realize that you have 2 ministries. The worship you lead at your Church's campus and the members of that church. Just imagine the other (almost) 350k of us that you minister to with each video. Then imagine how that is multiplied with our worship teams and church members. Mind blown up! It is God's perfect plan. One seed or one drop in the water and the ripples will spread across the lands.
You guys are truly full of wisdom. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to what i know personally is a HUGE battle many people like us are going through. I have faced this question/decision many many times, and y'all are spot on. Once I've had to leave because the place's theology where I was leading went completely sideways, and recently I was tempted to move on because of extreme disunity and poisonous leadership, however God called me to hang on and fight for His people, to be a beacon of hope, vision, and unity. Praise God today we are in a new day where God has showed himself faithful. Either way, life is full of seasons, and surrendering to God's heart changing surgery in each one is our ONLY option. So lets do it with joy, trusting his Sovereignty in every area of our lives, leaning not on our own understanding, but in all ways acknowledging Him.
Good stuff, was a worship leader (unpayed) for my churchs homeless ministry. Had to quit because it was out side in Arizona, yep you gess right it got to hot and cold for me after doing it 10 years. At age 60 it seems no one needs or wants me for worship now. I have faith GOD not done with me . So I'm looking for doors to open.And still playing worship songs at home keeping my skills up and just having great alone worship with the LORD.. Pray for me, thanks guys. Bill Phoenix az.
Bill, you have a ton to offer the church and a whole generation of worship leaders! Don't believe the lie that you're "too old". You have experience and wisdom... two things that are hard to come by! Keep your head high and God will put you exactly where He wants you for your next season!!! Prayers to you!
I loved being on the worship team and started to understand the denomination i was attendih was not based and founded on Truth. I miss the people and i miss leading worhip. I am having trouble finding a new church.
I'm from Mexico, I really like your covers, I find this video that talks about a great problem inside churches in different parts of the world, it's good to find this message about continue fighting the good figth. blessings
After having a whole pew to myself for service after service and people barely speaking to me, I got the message and concluded that the spirit of Christ was absent from such a church and voted with my feet and left those snobs to turn up their nose at somebody else
Praise God for you two man! I have subscribed to your channel long ago when it was just song covers but this is the first podcast that i watch. It's so full of valuable lessons and i realise what i have missed out all this while! I have been a WL in my church for years but i always feel i'm not good enough and that i know i have not tried enough.. As i prayed to God last night about quitting as a WL, your video immediately came out! As if it was God's answer! And now i believe that i should, at least rethink my position and seek counsel from the pastors, and at the same time watch your WL podcasts to constantly upgrade myself. I thank God for you guys :)
One more thing to ponder. Is the Church (Your Church) there for you? Or are you there for the Church? Pray and fast. I thought about what you said about assignments. I think when God wants you to move, he'll give you a new assignment. Do you have your next assignment? For months I've struggled with these questions as a Worship Leader at my Church. I've done a lot of reflecting on this parable the last few days. Luke 19:12-27 I'm not suggesting that you stay where you are. I'm not suggesting you leave. I'm suggesting that you pray. Find out if you are who God has assigned to fix the problem(s?) where you are. God Bless!
I just wanna say I REALLY, REALLY appreciate what you guys do making theses videos, and all the song tutorials and stuff! It is all VERY helpful,and a blessing! I'm glad God led me to it all. This topic was RIGHT ON TIME! As I am the worship leader and as such have been part of the church staff. I am a volunteer and work a full time job my wife is not a church goer and it all spreads pretty me thin, and because of that and some other reasons I have been seriously considering leaving. It is a very small church and there is only on musician other then myself and she is not in a place in her life to help. But this video will help me to make a rational, God led decision. Thanks Again for all the work you put in!
Thank you for these videos. I especially look forward to the third one. I haven't been to church in 8 yrs since the last church hurt me terribly. It was during the time I was dealing with the loss of my mom. Last year the Lord placed a renewed calling to go back into ministry. He has placed a church on my heart to write to. I just feel inadequate after being away from ministry for so long.
The one statement Fuller made said it all: BE SENSITIVE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. Ask Him to sensitize you. :-) Definitely ask Yahweh what to do once Scriptural Principles are being violated, such as matters of integrity, compromise of Biblical Bulls' Eye issues, etc.
I really appreciate this topic and I think you guys handled it with the care and sensitivity it deserves. I realise you did not intentionally seperate the differing facets of volunteer and paid position, which might be worth investigating a bit more. There seems to be more nuance for quitting as a volunteer rather than as a member of staff; certain criteria are not always universal. Additionally, I think the conversation should extend into church abuse (e.g. emotional amd spiritual). To say no one should take it personally is absurd, music amd worship is intrinsically personal and as artists we tend to be more melancholic and charsimatically disposed. Our very hearts are in our craft. Love the tough conversations--keep them coming!
I’m really looking forward to part 3: I did leave the church I currently a part of. Part of it was due to the fact I accepted a job an hour away from my church and am in a lonely place (away from my church body.). Part of it was some bitterness over what someone said to me in regards to me in the praise team. I was hurt by this person and unintentionally hurt this person. God did have to bring me back to my church through various means. There was repentance and forgiveness on both parties after letting that person know that he hurt me.
Thank you for your video. I have a lot of reasons to stay, but the one that makes me want to go is that i’m frustrated with volunteering when i’m having a hard time providing for my family.
This was a solid vid. Right now I am going through a pretty rough time with my church. Three years ago they "decided" to try and catch up with the times so they hired a "young" pastor to get that done. That poor man went through three years of some of the most childish kicking and screaming, back stabbing I have witnessed in a long time. I joined the same time he did in order to bring the music up to speed and got it to about the 1990s era but didnt get any further due to complainers. He eventually had enough and left, the board meeting THE DAY HE LEFT got rid of the worship committee (the one I was in charge of) and one of the older board members just wrote an order of service from before I got there. I just watched three years of work go down the toilet and I couldn't be more heart broken about it. I have asked several of my mentors and all of them keep telling me to bail but I love a lot of the members to death.
This story is sadly all too common. I sometimes fear we are raising up a generation of people who have learned how to hate the church. But that’s why we are making part 3 of this series.
Worship Tutorials I can't wait to see it :) what really kills me is our pastor had us read Autopsy of a Deceased Church as a congregation and even after reading that it's gone the way it has. I def have my opinions on why people 30 (I myself being 30) and down hate/leave the church.
Great job guys! This is a really tough subject to tackle. I think ya'll did exceptional at explaining this heavy subject. Also I like that you suggested for people to think about why they should stay and not leave.
Leaving was hard for me so I guess I made the right decision. I didn’t base it off offense or defense. I actually try to stay and things just didn’t work out so I left and things got better. When I don’t know the right answer I choose one and watch how it unfolds and if you have good discernment you’ll know whether that choice you’ve made is the right or wrong one and if wrong then you’ll need to do the other.
But sometimes it's not that easy, because of my old pastor's lack of humility and his abundance in pride I was getting hurt, I didn't wanted to leave. I was forced to leave because there was too much tension between him and I and it broke my heart that someone that I trusted and respected so much would behave LIKE A CHILD! I prayed so much before leaving and after I left. I felt like a huge weight fell from my shoulders.
After 25 years in the AOG, my husband and I met at that church and got married there.We also have 3 kids.My husband was dx stage 4 cancer,given 9 months...but he fought like heck ...made it 4 years. AFTER MY SPOUSE DIED, the church ABANDONED me !
I grew up in a mega church , in my twenties I moved away from my hometown due to work , I started attending a small local church and from the mega church to the little local church I can say being involved in a worship team is something that will really test you. The sad reality is churches have become social clubs with cliques and a whole lot of people who finding their fulfillment not in God but in positions and titles. I dont play in churches anymore coz I just dont need the stress especially being a somewhat advanced player, even if you're not showing off because you're good you get labelled as someone looking for a platform which I hate this is why I avoided playing for a couple of years after attending the local church and only joined after they announced they needed help but somehow the script gets flipped and it's as if you're now working for them it's a sad state really
I literally had a situation where I was working 6 days a week and told the leader I would be able to play only 1 service a week due to my work schedule and needing to spend time with my family and was given an ultimatum of either play whenever they chose to schedule me or leave the band ,.. never went back. People that lead worship bands need to be chosen with the utmost importance if not everything falls apart l.
I left the last church I was serving because, of well them asking too much of me, some drama and big hypocrisy. I had to attend a lot of mandatory rehearsals. I can’t work a legal job, so transportation is hard for me yet I tried my best to walk there every time I had to go. They were asking me to go to my church, 4 days a week. It’s a 4 mile walk. It’s not much but considering I had to carry my guitar, pedals, and amp. It was too much, I wasn’t ever asking them for money, but some help considering the time I put in it. The sacrifices, I sometimes didnt even eat to go to the rehearsals. There was some drama regarding me and something I posted on my social media. I reposted something I thought was funny, and things blew up out of proportion the majority of the people that saw the post didnt think it was offensive, one person thought it wasnt funny, regardless they went to tell the higher ups about it. I had to attend a meeting and basically they weren’t gonna let me play with the worship team, I didnt have a problem with that. I still had to attend all the rehearsals regardless. Also I had to apologize publicly on all my social media accounts, and personally go to each that have seen it and apologize. I didnt do it. I thought it was ludacris to do such a thing. When I had the last straw was when I realized one of the people in the worship teams is someone who likes to talk behind people’s back. He has no filter and will talk badly about anyone. So much so that he makes strangers get a different idea of how a person is before even meeting them. Thats why I left my church. I’m still hurt now and its been months.
hi we have a same situation . i feel it to it hurts. what i want is serving God with what i can do . but the leaders in my church sometimes make use of those word " serve God " . i dont know if my comment say what it suppose yo say . english not my first language . but until now i havent leave my position yet . everytime they do what ever they want eithout thinking and makes me angry or dissappoint . i just remember that i want to serve God not them .
JDSteffano I wasn't the leader, just played the keyboard. But 2 members of the team spread vicious rumors about me. Plus later I found out the pastor was telling certain people to stay away from me. I never found out why. But after the last vicious rumor I left. It's a shame that they were like that. I prayed to God to help me not become bitter through my hurt.
Great topic. I so wonder though if a church is full of believers growing together and learning how to love how come every Sunday it is just one boring salvation sermon after another. I think for believers it just hurts after awhile. We are told in the Word to move on from the milk.
you talked about why "the church is too small" is not a good reason to leave, but i wish you would address "the church is too big", if that is even a bad reason
Yeah, thanks, guys! This was a much-needed topic... although for me it is after the fact. I really appreciate what you guys do... Question: It seems these days some worship teams are finding very nuanced and subtle ways of pushing out people who don't fit the image they want to display on stage, whether that be the older people serving or people not fitting in with the fashion, or who can't or won't fit into skinny jeans. I know that one reason I decided to leave a certain church was that the leader was sort of a cult of personality, who on the surface was agreeable but internally was another story completely. Thoughts?
Unfortunately there has been a "trend" in modern worship to get "young and hip and cool". It is also a failing trend. And always ends poorly. Thankfully, more and more churches and leaders across the western world are starting to realize that the shallow approach to worship DOES NOT WORK. And hopefully more churches will be repenting and turning away from this train of thought as they get re-focused back on true authentic and engaging worship from a heart that loves God!
It's true I've been in a choir where it was compulsory to wear printed for heels if u were in d team and also you had to buy several uniforms which are not exactly modest..Most teams have some sort of criteria..
I’m the worship leader at my church. After 10 years my husband has decided he wants to move out of state. I actually feel like God is moving me on and at one point I heard the Lord tell me He was moving me. But my Pastors do not feel the move is of God because of the way God is using me. How do I handle this?
Great stuff guys. I literally was having this conversation with friends this morning about doing this very thing where I am at. You helped me a lot with your perspective. Thank you
Its ironic I'm here just been passed job as worship leader (there's no music at this church) but I'm already feel troubled. as I sing everyone just looks at me, even if they know the songs? been told I'm carnal but somehow just cant seem to get pass this issue. .. not sure what to do I'm ashamed to admit it may be too much for me.... I feel like running away.. Already. Maybe I have issues , confidence issues , maybe I need a better prayer life to build myself up !
I know this is intended for people who are staff. I am not a "staff" member as our church doesn't really have "staff" we are too small for that. However my wife and I are board members. I feel like some of the stuff in this video applies. My wife and I feel excluded often by our church. While we have a church board we feel like it's irrelevant as there is a family that posseses the true "control" of the church. The board does make decisions that are executed, the family ultimately makes most of the moves and decides most of the stuff we do as a church frequently in private. There are no doctrine issues, but it's covertly true that this is their church and the buck stops with them.
What if there is no one in our leadership I can seek advise from. I love my church however, there are alot of things that happened and keep on happening that go against what we profess as Christians. compromise, sexual immorality (ungodly relationahips, affairs and infidelities) that is a stubbornly commited again and again not just by members but people in the leadership. Some instances where exposed but leaderships involved seem not repentant at all they dont deal its root, but rather just cover them up. I know no church is perfect bit there is a clear line between weakness and wickedness. This really grieves my heart. Im part of the Worship team and it really breaks my heart - im starting to question the genuiness of what we sing and preach on services. Im still praying to the Lord coz i dont want to leave my post without His Word, i love my pastor and everyone in the church but i just cant stand what im witnessing. I hope you guys can respond to this.
Wow, that must be hard on you. If it was me I'd leave. I'm aware it is 6 months later so please let us know did you leave. After reading your comment I'm genuinely curious.
Havent watched the video, about to watch, but seen you're doing a part 3 about being hurt. Would be very curious to see what you have to say on the topic. I recently left a church that I was very heavily involved with, managing the sound and media side of the worship department and also on stage playing almost weekly. I originally left to pursue Bible College in Music Ministries but never went back to the church due to severe hurt that happened during my time away caused by the church. Its been a difficult road to get back to church and still havent found a place to get involved again, something ive been wanting to do but been struggling with.
Hi Lyndon. For that one, I was actually planning to share a personal story - because I’ve been hurt pretty badly before myself. I’m not exactly sure how much I’d be ready or willing to talk about publicly, but i can talk about how I’ve worked through it.
What about, it's affecting your marriage, you are being idolized, your wife or kids are really struggling with the church, no one is game to question you (because you are so important). And, reasons not to leave, no one likes my songs...
Great advice. I would say the starting point is, don't call it a job. Ministry isn't a job, but a calling. Jobs are to make a living, ministry is to help people understand how to live.
Paul Sherman I would say that its all about the perspective on the word. I think theres nothing wrong with calling your job at a church your job. If that perspectice doesnt fit well for you then thats fine but calling it a job isnt wrong..
JReece21 I'm definitely not saying its wrong to call it a job. Just when you start thinking about whether or not to leave, think of it as ministry first, not just a source of income. I think the mentality is important in making the right decision.
A friend was very upset with her boy friend. she was near tears as we got in the car to go get her stuff from his apartment. The cassette that was in the tape deck started playing the next song: Should I stay or Should I go. Oops.
I and a worshiper and have a question.everytime we sing the mic of the worship team leader it is extremely loud where you can't hear the rest of the worshipers.also my mic is always the lowest where I have to force my vocal cords.i have spoken to the Pastor but he continues to say that her mic has to be louder.She yells losses her voice stop singing and can't get the high notes.when she can't sing she starts yelling in tongues taking away from the worship.Pastor brings songs he has only practice with the leader not with the team.i don't understand why my mic is always so low I can't here myself and I have a soft voice.been thinking about leaving.any advise?
Diana Terry I have experienced a similar situation. My advice to you is something that worked for me, but it may not be applicable to what you’re going through. My mic was always turned down, and I heard about it from a few members of the congregation. I didn’t go to leadership; I just went straight to the sound tech. It turned out to be a misunderstanding, and he accidentally turned me down outwardly, but my sound was fine for the stage speakers. I’d try talking to the sound techs 😊
@@alexandrarathert1839 well the Pastor is in control and says he wants the worship team leader higher.he won't listen to me.so I just going to let go and let God.Thank you for your advise but I try that with no positive results.
True i have been part of a worship team that did that, because of racism. And also some worship leaders hold grudges and they sing about enemies defeated referring to someone they quarreled with. If you have a problem with a person, go to a person notemotionally abuse and guilt trip people
first point taken...you should not come to a place of worship to be fed...you should come to church to SERVE. That's my take on that. And yes, if you are hungry, get out your Bible!
Loving the conversation you provoke from your videos. The music is great and the conversations are real! I do have a question. Church organization can be very different between denominational groups. What denominational background does your church have? What denominational background do you guys individually have?
14:49 - Churches drifting on their theology? If that's the case, then it's built on a house of cards. There is only one true Church that has not changed its theology ever, in spite of the many human failings within. That Church has been around for 2000 years and was instituted by Christ himself directly. And yeah, I'm aware of all the human institutional failings that mark the Church and ALL churches. I'm only speaking about the pure teachings and theology that is based in scripture and Apostolic Tradition that existed before the New Testament was even written and canonized. Go ahead and flame away. It's inevitable but it will not change the ultimate truth. In the end though, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. And we should ALWAYS keep that at the center of everything we do!
I very much enjoy these videos. Suggestion, please limit Fuller's time he gets to talk. I really like Brien's view points but I think Fuller dominates this video and has dominated many of the past videos. Please try and split the time evenly, Brien barely gets to chime in and many of these topics I would like to hear his opinion.
I beg to differ on the “not being fed.” Paul said we should be eating the “meat” of God’s”. The church SHOULD be feed spiritual meat, not spooning milk. The Ethiopian eunuch had the word of God to read for himself, but needed a teacher. Pastors are shepherds and their job is, as Jesus commanded peter, “feed” His sheep. A pastor that neglects this commandment is neglecting the essence of his calling.
Recently I have been dealing with being the keyboard player and a singer people hear me sing and play outside of church at my house and when I invite them to church they don't want to come back because they always turn my sound down and the worship sounds pretty bad it gets discouraging because I put in so much practice and when we get to the service it's like I just wasted my time they dislike the way the two main singers sound and say the guitar is always off key and off beat and that's all they can hear because they turn themselves up and everyone else down and never rotate
larriveeman Bethel and Hillsong are marketing “church” to a broader audience. It’s a beginner church meant to attract people to the idea of church and... to keep their cash cow mooing.
There are many issues, firstly false "prophecy" from bethel many times, gold dust falling, trips to heaven, preach from revelation trying to fit their revelation into scripture, it goes on and on....
larriveeman some people feel very connected to God through that though. Who am I to say it’s wrong if the end result is happier and more complete people?
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Always remember that your doing it to serve God , not people. People are always gonna fail you.
What if I don't want to play guitar to serve God? I hate church.
if the church has bad doctrine but great worship...LEAVE
I know im asking the wrong place but does someone know a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me.
Felt the Holy Spirit working in me within the first 3 minutes of watching this video. Thank you
Good honest advice. I do somewhat disagree with the "not being fed" reason not to leave
As you described the situation - the person that that only does the Christian thing at church on Sunday - I agree. People should seek after God themselves on their own time and not put the growth of their Christian faith on their pastor. Completely agree.
I do believe though that many churches as a whole these days leave out mature Christians in favor to cater to non-believers, building everything about themselves to seem exciting to people. I've been to churches that could go a whole sermon without quoting one line of scripture. This could get into a whole debate about the purpose of church, or more specifically who the church is. I agree that fellowship with other Christians is very important, but that can be done at a park or coffee shop - most churches have one of those anyways. If there is nothing else of benefit on Sunday morning, then it is hard to justify being a part of it. If all you're there for is the coffee shop, then save your church donation that goes to paying for the building and everything else and drink coffee with believers at the coffee shop or park and give that money to charity.
This videos popped up on my recommended just in time. I believe God led me to this at the right moment. Thank you so much. You guys are an inspiration. Hopefully I can take what I've learned from this and help out my worship group that I'm leading.
Four years ago, this was the specific video that began my road to being a TH-cam and podcast junkie.
I was in a terrible place after leaving my former church. This helped to confirm some things and challenge me in others.
Thank you!
Thank you for this encouraging wisdom. I lead the choir in a southern Baptist Church that brought in an Independent Baptist pastor and now we are having to make changes, which I'm willing to try; however, I do not feel my pastor has my back. He is supporting the new Independent crowd he's drawing and not supporting me as I attempt to change.
Thanks again for a great discussion. I hope you both realize that you have 2 ministries. The worship you lead at your Church's campus and the members of that church. Just imagine the other (almost) 350k of us that you minister to with each video. Then imagine how that is multiplied with our worship teams and church members. Mind blown up! It is God's perfect plan. One seed or one drop in the water and the ripples will spread across the lands.
Thank you for your encouragement !!!
People will always let you down, God won't....Amen 🙏
You guys are truly full of wisdom. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to what i know personally is a HUGE battle many people like us are going through. I have faced this question/decision many many times, and y'all are spot on. Once I've had to leave because the place's theology where I was leading went completely sideways, and recently I was tempted to move on because of extreme disunity and poisonous leadership, however God called me to hang on and fight for His people, to be a beacon of hope, vision, and unity. Praise God today we are in a new day where God has showed himself faithful. Either way, life is full of seasons, and surrendering to God's heart changing surgery in each one is our ONLY option. So lets do it with joy, trusting his Sovereignty in every area of our lives, leaning not on our own understanding, but in all ways acknowledging Him.
Good stuff, was a worship leader (unpayed) for my churchs homeless ministry. Had to quit because it was out side in Arizona, yep you gess right it got to hot and cold for me after doing it 10 years. At age 60 it seems no one needs or wants me for worship now. I have faith GOD not done with me . So I'm looking for doors to open.And still playing worship songs at home keeping my skills up and just having great alone worship with the LORD.. Pray for me, thanks guys. Bill Phoenix az.
Bill, you have a ton to offer the church and a whole generation of worship leaders! Don't believe the lie that you're "too old". You have experience and wisdom... two things that are hard to come by! Keep your head high and God will put you exactly where He wants you for your next season!!! Prayers to you!
I loved being on the worship team and started to understand the denomination i was attendih was not based and founded on Truth. I miss the people and i miss leading worhip. I am having trouble finding a new church.
Wow! I was about to quit playing keyboard at my Church..Thank you God for using these Guys, This video open my eyes..
I'm from Mexico, I really like your covers, I find this video that talks about a great problem inside churches in different parts of the world, it's good to find this message about continue fighting the good figth.
blessings
After having a whole pew to myself for service after service and people barely speaking to me, I got the message and concluded that the spirit of Christ was absent from such a church and voted with my feet and left those snobs to turn up their nose at somebody else
Praise God for you two man! I have subscribed to your channel long ago when it was just song covers but this is the first podcast that i watch. It's so full of valuable lessons and i realise what i have missed out all this while! I have been a WL in my church for years but i always feel i'm not good enough and that i know i have not tried enough.. As i prayed to God last night about quitting as a WL, your video immediately came out! As if it was God's answer! And now i believe that i should, at least rethink my position and seek counsel from the pastors, and at the same time watch your WL podcasts to constantly upgrade myself. I thank God for you guys :)
One more thing to ponder. Is the Church (Your Church) there for you? Or are you there for the Church? Pray and fast. I thought about what you said about assignments. I think when God wants you to move, he'll give you a new assignment. Do you have your next assignment? For months I've struggled with these questions as a Worship Leader at my Church. I've done a lot of reflecting on this parable the last few days. Luke 19:12-27 I'm not suggesting that you stay where you are. I'm not suggesting you leave. I'm suggesting that you pray. Find out if you are who God has assigned to fix the problem(s?) where you are. God Bless!
One of the best books I've read on this topic is Necessary Endings. Very much a paradigm shifting book
I just wanna say I REALLY, REALLY appreciate what you guys do making theses videos, and all the song tutorials and stuff! It is all VERY helpful,and a blessing! I'm glad God led me to it all. This topic was RIGHT ON TIME! As I am the worship leader and as such have been part of the church staff. I am a volunteer and work a full time job my wife is not a church goer and it all spreads pretty me thin, and because of that and some other reasons I have been seriously considering leaving. It is a very small church and there is only on musician other then myself and she is not in a place in her life to help. But this video will help me to make a rational, God led decision.
Thanks Again for all the work you put in!
Thank you for these videos. I especially look forward to the third one. I haven't been to church in 8 yrs since the last church hurt me terribly. It was during the time I was dealing with the loss of my mom.
Last year the Lord placed a renewed calling to go back into ministry. He has placed a church on my heart to write to. I just feel inadequate after being away from ministry for so long.
The one statement Fuller made said it all: BE SENSITIVE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. Ask Him to sensitize you. :-) Definitely ask Yahweh what to do once Scriptural Principles are being violated, such as matters of integrity, compromise of Biblical Bulls' Eye issues, etc.
I really appreciate this topic and I think you guys handled it with the care and sensitivity it deserves. I realise you did not intentionally seperate the differing facets of volunteer and paid position, which might be worth investigating a bit more. There seems to be more nuance for quitting as a volunteer rather than as a member of staff; certain criteria are not always universal. Additionally, I think the conversation should extend into church abuse (e.g. emotional amd spiritual). To say no one should take it personally is absurd, music amd worship is intrinsically personal and as artists we tend to be more melancholic and charsimatically disposed. Our very hearts are in our craft. Love the tough conversations--keep them coming!
I’m really looking forward to part 3: I did leave the church I currently a part of. Part of it was due to the fact I accepted a job an hour away from my church and am in a lonely place (away from my church body.). Part of it was some bitterness over what someone said to me in regards to me in the praise team. I was hurt by this person and unintentionally hurt this person. God did have to bring me back to my church through various means. There was repentance and forgiveness on both parties after letting that person know that he hurt me.
My advice: Don't ever take things Personally, Pray, Read your Bible, focus on God, and act professionally.
Truth. Hard to do, but that is the Truth.
Good advice . We gotta always remember why we are doing it.
Oh man... I thought relationships were supposed to be personal 😔. Is t church supposed to be a place to cultivate relationships ?
Well said
As a young worship leader, I can agree!!😂
It’s so hard to do but honestly it’s the only thing that’ll keep me sane and healthy!
When you're no longer scheduled to play. :)
The journey is everlasting
Thank you for your video. I have a lot of reasons to stay, but the one that makes me want to go is that i’m frustrated with volunteering when i’m having a hard time providing for my family.
The malnutritioned christian theory👏 i love that
This was a solid vid. Right now I am going through a pretty rough time with my church. Three years ago they "decided" to try and catch up with the times so they hired a "young" pastor to get that done. That poor man went through three years of some of the most childish kicking and screaming, back stabbing I have witnessed in a long time. I joined the same time he did in order to bring the music up to speed and got it to about the 1990s era but didnt get any further due to complainers. He eventually had enough and left, the board meeting THE DAY HE LEFT got rid of the worship committee (the one I was in charge of) and one of the older board members just wrote an order of service from before I got there. I just watched three years of work go down the toilet and I couldn't be more heart broken about it. I have asked several of my mentors and all of them keep telling me to bail but I love a lot of the members to death.
This story is sadly all too common. I sometimes fear we are raising up a generation of people who have learned how to hate the church.
But that’s why we are making part 3 of this series.
Worship Tutorials I can't wait to see it :) what really kills me is our pastor had us read Autopsy of a Deceased Church as a congregation and even after reading that it's gone the way it has. I def have my opinions on why people 30 (I myself being 30) and down hate/leave the church.
Great job guys! This is a really tough subject to tackle. I think ya'll did exceptional at explaining this heavy subject. Also I like that you suggested for people to think about why they should stay and not leave.
Leaving was hard for me so I guess I made the right decision. I didn’t base it off offense or defense. I actually try to stay and things just didn’t work out so I left and things got better. When I don’t know the right answer I choose one and watch how it unfolds and if you have good discernment you’ll know whether that choice you’ve made is the right or wrong one and if wrong then you’ll need to do the other.
Love this so much! I’ve been looking for someone to address these tough issues for a long time. This has helped me tremendously thank you !🙏🏻
But sometimes it's not that easy, because of my old pastor's lack of humility and his abundance in pride I was getting hurt, I didn't wanted to leave.
I was forced to leave because there was too much tension between him and I and it broke my heart that someone that I trusted and respected so much would behave LIKE A CHILD! I prayed so much before leaving and after I left. I felt like a huge weight fell from my shoulders.
After 25 years in the AOG, my husband and I met at that church and got married there.We also have 3 kids.My husband was dx stage 4 cancer,given 9 months...but he fought like heck ...made it 4 years. AFTER MY SPOUSE DIED, the church ABANDONED me !
Thank you so much for this video. It has confirmed many things in my wife and I's journey
Thank you guys for your videos. I love worship leader wednesday!!
I grew up in a mega church , in my twenties I moved away from my hometown due to work , I started attending a small local church and from the mega church to the little local church I can say being involved in a worship team is something that will really test you. The sad reality is churches have become social clubs with cliques and a whole lot of people who finding their fulfillment not in God but in positions and titles. I dont play in churches anymore coz I just dont need the stress especially being a somewhat advanced player, even if you're not showing off because you're good you get labelled as someone looking for a platform which I hate this is why I avoided playing for a couple of years after attending the local church and only joined after they announced they needed help but somehow the script gets flipped and it's as if you're now working for them it's a sad state really
I literally had a situation where I was working 6 days a week and told the leader I would be able to play only 1 service a week due to my work schedule and needing to spend time with my family and was given an ultimatum of either play whenever they chose to schedule me or leave the band ,.. never went back. People that lead worship bands need to be chosen with the utmost importance if not everything falls apart l.
You guys are AWESOME! Thanks for speaking about these topics!🙌🙌😇
I left the last church I was serving because, of well them asking too much of me, some drama and big hypocrisy.
I had to attend a lot of mandatory rehearsals. I can’t work a legal job, so transportation is hard for me yet I tried my best to walk there every time I had to go.
They were asking me to go to my church, 4 days a week. It’s a 4 mile walk. It’s not much but considering I had to carry my guitar, pedals, and amp. It was too much, I wasn’t ever asking them for money, but some help considering the time I put in it. The sacrifices, I sometimes didnt even eat to go to the rehearsals.
There was some drama regarding me and something I posted on my social media. I reposted something I thought was funny, and things blew up out of proportion the majority of the people that saw the post didnt think it was offensive, one person thought it wasnt funny, regardless they went to tell the higher ups about it. I had to attend a meeting and basically they weren’t gonna let me play with the worship team, I didnt have a problem with that. I still had to attend all the rehearsals regardless. Also I had to apologize publicly on all my social media accounts, and personally go to each that have seen it and apologize.
I didnt do it. I thought it was ludacris to do such a thing.
When I had the last straw was when I realized one of the people in the worship teams is someone who likes to talk behind people’s back. He has no filter and will talk badly about anyone. So much so that he makes strangers get a different idea of how a person is before even meeting them.
Thats why I left my church. I’m still hurt now and its been months.
hi we have a same situation . i feel it to it hurts. what i want is serving God with what i can do . but the leaders in my church sometimes make use of those word " serve God " . i dont know if my comment say what it suppose yo say . english not my first language .
but until now i havent leave my position yet . everytime they do what ever they want eithout thinking and makes me angry or dissappoint . i just remember that i want to serve God not them .
888Xristos That was the first thing I asked for
JDSteffano I wasn't the leader, just played the keyboard. But 2 members of the team spread vicious rumors about me. Plus later I found out the pastor was telling certain people to stay away from me. I never found out why. But after the last vicious rumor I left. It's a shame that they were like that. I prayed to God to help me not become bitter through my hurt.
i feel your pain.
Great topic. I so wonder though if a church is full of believers growing together and learning how to love how come every Sunday it is just one boring salvation sermon after another. I think for believers it just hurts after awhile. We are told in the Word to move on from the milk.
Awesome stuff, especially about calling/assignments/seasons. Great things to think about during transitions like this!
you talked about why "the church is too small" is not a good reason to leave, but i wish you would address "the church is too big", if that is even a bad reason
Yeah, thanks, guys! This was a much-needed topic... although for me it is after the fact. I really appreciate what you guys do... Question: It seems these days some worship teams are finding very nuanced and subtle ways of pushing out people who don't fit the image they want to display on stage, whether that be the older people serving or people not fitting in with the fashion, or who can't or won't fit into skinny jeans. I know that one reason I decided to leave a certain church was that the leader was sort of a cult of personality, who on the surface was agreeable but internally was another story completely. Thoughts?
Unfortunately there has been a "trend" in modern worship to get "young and hip and cool". It is also a failing trend. And always ends poorly. Thankfully, more and more churches and leaders across the western world are starting to realize that the shallow approach to worship DOES NOT WORK. And hopefully more churches will be repenting and turning away from this train of thought as they get re-focused back on true authentic and engaging worship from a heart that loves God!
It's true I've been in a choir where it was compulsory to wear printed for heels if u were in d team and also you had to buy several uniforms which are not exactly modest..Most teams have some sort of criteria..
Amen Gods word is His food
I’m the worship leader at my church. After 10 years my husband has decided he wants to move out of state. I actually feel like God is moving me on and at one point I heard the Lord tell me He was moving me. But my Pastors do not feel the move is of God because of the way God is using me. How do I handle this?
👍🏻 Great job covering a very heavy topic. Looking forward to the whole series. 📌
Thank you so much for this it was very helpful. God bless and stay encouraged
I left the same church one of your Hwy 50 worship members left for the same reason he did.
Great stuff guys. I literally was having this conversation with friends this morning about doing this very thing where I am at. You helped me a lot with your perspective. Thank you
6:48 amen to that Fuller! 🔥🙌🏻
Its ironic I'm here just been passed job as worship leader (there's no music at this church) but I'm already feel troubled. as I sing everyone just looks at me, even if they know the songs? been told I'm carnal but somehow just cant seem to get pass this issue. .. not sure what to do I'm ashamed to admit it may be too much for me.... I feel like running away.. Already. Maybe I have issues , confidence issues , maybe I need a better prayer life to build myself up !
Loving this chanel ❤ God bless you all !
🇧🇷
I know this is intended for people who are staff. I am not a "staff" member as our church doesn't really have "staff" we are too small for that. However my wife and I are board members. I feel like some of the stuff in this video applies.
My wife and I feel excluded often by our church. While we have a church board we feel like it's irrelevant as there is a family that posseses the true "control" of the church. The board does make decisions that are executed, the family ultimately makes most of the moves and decides most of the stuff we do as a church frequently in private. There are no doctrine issues, but it's covertly true that this is their church and the buck stops with them.
The church is NOT the hope of the world, CHRIST is ❤️
What if there is no one in our leadership I can seek advise from.
I love my church however, there are alot of things that happened and keep on happening that go against what we profess as Christians.
compromise, sexual immorality (ungodly relationahips, affairs and infidelities) that is a stubbornly commited again and again not just by members but people in the leadership.
Some instances where exposed but leaderships involved seem not repentant at all they dont deal its root, but rather just cover them up. I know no church is perfect bit there is a clear line between weakness and wickedness.
This really grieves my heart.
Im part of the Worship team and it really breaks my heart - im starting to question the genuiness of what we sing and preach on services. Im still praying to the Lord coz i dont want to leave my post without His Word, i love my pastor and everyone in the church but i just cant stand what im witnessing.
I hope you guys can respond to this.
Wow, that must be hard on you. If it was me I'd leave.
I'm aware it is 6 months later so please let us know did you leave. After reading your comment I'm genuinely curious.
Havent watched the video, about to watch, but seen you're doing a part 3 about being hurt. Would be very curious to see what you have to say on the topic. I recently left a church that I was very heavily involved with, managing the sound and media side of the worship department and also on stage playing almost weekly. I originally left to pursue Bible College in Music Ministries but never went back to the church due to severe hurt that happened during my time away caused by the church. Its been a difficult road to get back to church and still havent found a place to get involved again, something ive been wanting to do but been struggling with.
Hi Lyndon. For that one, I was actually planning to share a personal story - because I’ve been hurt pretty badly before myself. I’m not exactly sure how much I’d be ready or willing to talk about publicly, but i can talk about how I’ve worked through it.
Thanks. Its a great reminder for everyone :)
What about, it's affecting your marriage, you are being idolized, your wife or kids are really struggling with the church, no one is game to question you (because you are so important). And, reasons not to leave, no one likes my songs...
A lot of what I have seen is more of a show then fellowship
Great advice. I would say the starting point is, don't call it a job. Ministry isn't a job, but a calling. Jobs are to make a living, ministry is to help people understand how to live.
Paul Sherman I would say that its all about the perspective on the word. I think theres nothing wrong with calling your job at a church your job. If that perspectice doesnt fit well for you then thats fine but calling it a job isnt wrong..
JReece21 I'm definitely not saying its wrong to call it a job. Just when you start thinking about whether or not to leave, think of it as ministry first, not just a source of income. I think the mentality is important in making the right decision.
you can sound good and lead people in worship with the basics...
A friend was very upset with her boy friend. she was near tears as we got in the car to go get her stuff from his apartment. The cassette that was in the tape deck started playing the next song: Should I stay or Should I go. Oops.
The problem is we live in a me me me world. Tuff subject. Good job.
I am playing in a church band and the leader does not like me playing saxophone he say bad words over me and only wants me to play when he say so
That thumbnail though!! Hahaha
Good thoughts!
This is good wisdom
I and a worshiper and have a question.everytime we sing the mic of the worship team leader it is extremely loud where you can't hear the rest of the worshipers.also my mic is always the lowest where I have to force my vocal cords.i have spoken to the Pastor but he continues to say that her mic has to be louder.She yells losses her voice stop singing and can't get the high notes.when she can't sing she starts yelling in tongues taking away from the worship.Pastor brings songs he has only practice with the leader not with the team.i don't understand why my mic is always so low I can't here myself and I have a soft voice.been thinking about leaving.any advise?
Diana Terry I have experienced a similar situation. My advice to you is something that worked for me, but it may not be applicable to what you’re going through. My mic was always turned down, and I heard about it from a few members of the congregation. I didn’t go to leadership; I just went straight to the sound tech. It turned out to be a misunderstanding, and he accidentally turned me down outwardly, but my sound was fine for the stage speakers. I’d try talking to the sound techs 😊
@@alexandrarathert1839 well the Pastor is in control and says he wants the worship team leader higher.he won't listen to me.so I just going to let go and let God.Thank you for your advise but I try that with no positive results.
True i have been part of a worship team that did that, because of racism. And also some worship leaders hold grudges and they sing about enemies defeated referring to someone they quarreled with. If you have a problem with a person, go to a person notemotionally abuse and guilt trip people
How do you deal with an arrogant worship leader who seems to play to the crowd?
What is the song that plays during the intro? I really like it.
first point taken...you should not come to a place of worship to be fed...you should come to church to SERVE. That's my take on that. And yes, if you are hungry, get out your Bible!
What book was mentioned? H3 - something by who? Lol sounds really great I’d like to read it
It was H3 Leadership by Brad Lomenick
Loving the conversation you provoke from your videos. The music is great and the conversations are real! I do have a question.
Church organization can be very different between denominational groups. What denominational background does your church have? What denominational background do you guys individually have?
14:49 - Churches drifting on their theology? If that's the case, then it's built on a house of cards. There is only one true Church that has not changed its theology ever, in spite of the many human failings within. That Church has been around for 2000 years and was instituted by Christ himself directly. And yeah, I'm aware of all the human institutional failings that mark the Church and ALL churches. I'm only speaking about the pure teachings and theology that is based in scripture and Apostolic Tradition that existed before the New Testament was even written and canonized.
Go ahead and flame away. It's inevitable but it will not change the ultimate truth. In the end though, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. And we should ALWAYS keep that at the center of everything we do!
Would sending somebody a link to this video be a good way of recommending their retirement?
😂
maybe your leaving because you believe God is leading you somewhere else
A good vision is Eph 4:12
I very much enjoy these videos. Suggestion, please limit Fuller's time he gets to talk. I really like Brien's view points but I think Fuller dominates this video and has dominated many of the past videos. Please try and split the time evenly, Brien barely gets to chime in and many of these topics I would like to hear his opinion.
Wow! Thanks for your encouragement! I quit!!!
Bro. The church is not the hope of the world. The Christ we seek to magnify is.
I beg to differ on the “not being fed.” Paul said we should be eating the “meat” of God’s”. The church SHOULD be feed spiritual meat, not spooning milk. The Ethiopian eunuch had the word of God to read for himself, but needed a teacher. Pastors are shepherds and their job is, as Jesus commanded peter, “feed” His sheep. A pastor that neglects this commandment is neglecting the essence of his calling.
So go hunt, slay, prepare,
cook and serve it up.
Recently I have been dealing with being the keyboard player and a singer people hear me sing and play outside of church at my house and when I invite them to church they don't want to come back because they always turn my sound down and the worship sounds pretty bad it gets discouraging because I put in so much practice and when we get to the service it's like I just wasted my time they dislike the way the two main singers sound and say the guitar is always off key and off beat and that's all they can hear because they turn themselves up and everyone else down and never rotate
dat thumbnail...
The church is the hope of the world?
On This Rock Yes my sentiments too...the focus is CHRIST being the hope of the world, not the church.
Ha Ha! That DGT is the center of the WT universe now!
pastors change and you dont agree with the tone/tenor of the sermon and messages of the new pastor but boy do I miss the band
Third
bethel and hillsong have bad doctrine but great worship, thats a problem
larriveeman Bethel and Hillsong are marketing “church” to a broader audience. It’s a beginner church meant to attract people to the idea of church and... to keep their cash cow mooing.
There are many issues, firstly false "prophecy" from bethel many times, gold dust falling, trips to heaven, preach from revelation trying to fit their revelation into scripture, it goes on and on....
its more of a show then a service
larriveeman some people feel very connected to God through that though. Who am I to say it’s wrong if the end result is happier and more complete people?
results based upon false doctrine are not valid, there are plenty of people who "feel" connected to false gods
Second haha
you're almost 40!!?? you don't look it!
FALSE!!!!
What exactly do you think is false here?