@@TopOfAllWorlds Huh, the video contains... different data from the spreadsheet? I imagine that the spreadsheet is the accurate one of the two, since it contains the actual calculations, but that's weird.
Just wanna point out, Ghost and Flying also have a hidden benefit. Ghost types can't be trapped. This is especially useful knowledge in the competitive sphere. And the flying one seems like a tautology because they're already immune to ground, but they're also immune to groundED effects. This means spikes, toxic spikes, terrains, etc.
For me, I disagree with having Normal Ghost being low, as it's basically Ghost but with an immunity to itself along with the fact that the amount your STAB hits neutually is quite a lot
While I feel like this numerical take is interesting and in line with your modus operandi. It doesn’t take certain things into account like how weather-centric benefits require the weather to be set, how one type being OP can actually make another type better than it otherwise would be (e.g., Fairy’s introduction made poison way more viable than it would be otherwise)
I'm not convinced you can just ignore resists and immunities for offence. In practice some types are offensively strong because they have good neutral coverage. A good example of this is dragon, especially in gen 4 and 5. It rarely gets super effective hits, but it has amazing neutral coverage, which means that dragons can just spam outrage and draco-meteor without suffering any real consequences. The analysis of normal as the worst offensive type really shows this flaw, because it's just not. There have been plenty of good pure normal type attackers across the years. Tauros, Snorlax and Mega Kangaskhan have literally been the single best mons in their generation and all of them rely on normal STAB a ton, because normal has good neutral coverage. There have been more good normal type attackers throughout the years than bug, poison or grass type attackers, because those types actually have far worse coverage than normal, bug is resisted by almost half of the game and is so bad that in spite of having good bug moves most good bug mons don't run any other than First Impression. I also think there's a problem with analyzing defense and offense as equally important. Because they're not. A Pokemon with good defensive but bad offensive typing can still do things. Cyclizar and Drampa can switch in on fire, water, ghost and electric, crazy common attacking types. They can then do things other than spam stab when they get into battle. Cyclizar does supportive things and Drampa just clicks fire blast most of the time. If you look at a mon with solid offensive typing but garbage defensive typing like Aurorus it fairs far worse. Aurorus can't do anything because it rarely has switch in opportunities. Every mon carries something that deals with Aurorus, being weak to 6 types, most of which are the best offensive types in the game is completely insurmountable as a weakness. Any measurement system that doesn't recognize completely useless typings like ice/rock, ice/grass, ice/normal, bug/grass and bug/flying as the worst in the game isn't actually finding the worst types in the game. Also being immune to a type grants far more defensive benefit than 4x resisting. If you're a ground type then you're immune to thunderwave and random paralysis from electric type moves. If you're a dragon/grass type you can still be paralyzed by these. Steel types are in part the best tanks because they can't be chipped by poison because there's only one mon in the game that can actually poison them. Ghost types get to block rapid spin and the rarer power-up punch. Ignoring the secondary effect of moves is a huge advantage. The difference between a 4x resisted sludge bomb you and being a steel type isn't just chip damage, it's being able to swap into that move over and over without ever risking being poisoned.
First of all, great video! The most common complaint I've seen in the comments is how not every type has the same importance of being strong against. For example, being good against Bug or Grass doesn't necessairly makes a type better, because they are weak to a lot of types, while being good against Fairy does, because it's a strong type. So a way to try to "fix" this would be taking in consideration the score of the types themselves when accounting for them. For example, Fairy is a strong type, so it values more than Bug when accounting to the score.
I do think you shortchange the value of being able to inflict widespread neutral damage. That's part of what made Dragon so strong in gens 4 and 5; sure, it didn't hit anything super effectively except other Dragons, but the only type that resisted it was Steel, which could be easily rectified by slotting on a Fire, Ground, and/or Fighting move on your Dragons and/or having a teammate take care of opposing Steels. In fact, a popular team archetype in Gen 5 was "DragMag," which was basically Magnezone to trap and remove opposing Steels then as many as 5 Dragons to repeatedly bombard the enemy team with Outrages, Draco Meteors, and the occasional secondary STAB or coverage move, attempting to seize victory through sheer, unrelenting brute force. And it worked quite well. I get the feeling that this kind of thing is what led to the introduction of the Fairy type, which is immune to Dragon. Admittedly, without high base power moves like Outrage or Draco Meteor to quickly bludgeon opponents into submission with or without the immense base stats of such monsters as Garchomp, Latias, and Hydreigon, Dragon would not have been nearly as successful. There's a reason you don't see (non-Mega) Altaria in the highest tiers of play. I could also bring up Normal in gens 1 and (to a lesser extent) 2, but that's probably even more carried by circumstances beyond the inherent value of the type, like how incredibly splashable Body Slam and Hyper Beam were in Gen 1 making having STAB on them all the more appealing or how incredibly centralizing Snorlax was in Gen 2 thanks to its immense bulk and power, not to mention how the change from Stat Experience (allowing all of a Pokemon's stats to be maxed out) to Effort Values (forcing Pokemon to be much more selective in how they allocated their stats) in gen 3 changed the landscape of the game.
I disagree with the method of looking purely at super effective hits for offensive capabilities. Neutral effectiveness tends to be just as, if not more important than super effectiveness to how a good a type is offensively. For example, ghost is an amazing offensive type, not because it hits psychic and ghost super effectively, but because it hits everything except dark and normal at least neutral
@@Niko__01Another great example is the classic Bolt Beam combo (Electric/Ice). No monotype and very few type combos resist both (AFAIK only certain electric combos, namely Electric/Steel, Electric/Water, Electric/Fire, and Electric/Ice itself)
A very interesting video. I must say, I did a bit of a double take when I saw you had made this video; funnily enough, I'm currently working on a video on this exact topic! For that video, I used a completely different method from the method you used, and as such, I obtained a completely different ranking. Stay tuned for that... Also, I couldn't help but notice that at 8:06, your editor claims there are 162 possible type combinations, not counting duplicates. In fact, there are 171 (18 single types and 153 dual types). I'm guessing your editor took the naive answer of 18^2 = 324 type combinations and divided it by 2 without considering that single types don't have any duplicate that needs to be deleted.
The more wise pokemon fans know that if gamefreak makes a fairy ground pokemon that is fast and can hit hard. well, it will be bad for single battles.. double battles would require it to have synergy so there's hope it ain't good there.
Before finishing video: Going with fairy and..... no clue. Fairy/fire. Let's go with this. My knowledge is up to Gen 2, but know a little bit here and there outside of those gens. Edit: I suck
I actually disagree with going in more detail with your calculations at the end being pointless. While the Average Method and the Rigorous Method ended up being very similar, there was enough overlap in certain types offenses and defenses that taking a deeper look was a good idea. Basically, you didn't just prove that Fire/Steel was theoretically the best type, you proved it twice.
I think that, while doing this Numerically is a good way to look at it in a vacuum, Pokemon is NOT a Vacuum, it's not a chance game like Rock Paper Scissors, even that has certain specifics that complicate things beyond just a 1 in 3 chance, but, it's that at the base level- Pokemon, even if we look at offensive and defensive capabilities given how many pokemon are super effective or resist- puts us in a VERY different situation than if you look at what's actually good, like take Clefable from before Fairy was added to it, at the time, it was pure Normal type, but it can use that to it's advantage, it's a defensive wall that only has one weakness, and given the fact that Clefable has high HP and access to recovery moves, as well as an ability that makes it immune to non-attack chip damage that would normally wear it away. It also, being normal, baits Fighting type attacks, meaning if you know one's coming, you can switch to a ghost type, or some 1/4x resist to fighting, and suddenly, their best answer became a free switch. It's an incredibly strong wall, *BECAUSE* it's normal type- Snorlax is another good example, most good fighting types and fighting moves are physical attacks, and he has a high physical defense, yes this is looking more at the pokemon than the type as a whole, but, you can't just slap fire/steel onto any pokemon and it suddenly be good, even if all of it's originally stab moves became fire or steel- Look at Heatran, it's really good, and in part that's thanks to it being fire/steel, an absolute tank of a combo that also allows for high damage- BUT- it's also shafted by ground types, and ground having one of the best generic moves ever in Earthquake, which a LOT of pokemon get, it's been known to unironically run Air Balloon, so it can get a move off for sure before getting smacked upside the head with a ground move. And Heatran even has the extra benefit of being immune to fire thanks to it's ability. If you wanna look at the single statistical best type combo, you don't look at their type's moves and their power and frequency, you need to look at the resistance's and weakness' average power and frequency, and if you wanna narrow it down even further, only choose moves that have a certain power and accuracy, and factor in immunity to certain status moves, so like for example, fire and steel gets shafted by ground, well, how good and frequent is ground? If only 1 in every 10 pokemon learn a ground move worth using, then, sure it's pretty good, but, if it gets closer to 3, 4 or even 5, then suddenly, that 'best type' doesn't look so good anymore. And given how many pokemon can learn either Earthquake, or High Horsepower, and some even have unique ground moves as coverage like Scorching Sands, Fire/Steel's 4x weakness suddenly makes it a detriment, and with pokemon only getting more coverage moves over time, it's *much* more important to look at things like that. Another good example is the second type you have, Flying/Steel, though this time, it IS worth looking at the inverse, the thing you said you wouldn't bother with since things change all the time, we know fire isn't a common type, but it's high power, we know electric is semi-uncommon, but Thunder generally has a decent set of pokemon that can learn it- so it's defensive type overall is looking pretty good- but offensively, it has like, 4 stab moves worth using, and they're all almost exclusively pokemon dependant, if you want a good physical flying move, you need to either be using Brave Bird, which does recoil, or Fly, which is inaccurate, and has easy counterplay- you can use Aerial Ace, which never misses, but the damage is mediocre at best. So not the best options there- if we look at special, you have ONE good option that multiple pokemon get, that being Air Slash- and Steel is Notorious for having mediocre attacks at best Yes, all of this can be changed in a year, but, so can the type chart. If Nintendo deems it so, they could make Steel weak to electricity, and weak to Ice, and suddenly it goes from an incredible type to hardly an upside- but if they decide steel is suddenly also strong against flying and poison, and add in more offensive moves, consistent attacks that deal good damage, it has a more offensive niche, and that not only makes it stronger, but it also in turn makes fire stronger, and in turn, makes fairy much, much weaker, by having two things it struggles against become better against it The Types and their Interactions are incredibly important, but so are the moves and the pokemon that have them- to find the truly best type combo, what you would effectively have to do, is make the ideal pokemon, what pokemon would be carried by it's type, but can also use it to great effect? What combination of types, and abilities, allow it's type to shine the best? The answer is Zacian Maybe Flutter Mane Probably Zacian
Hot take: Water / Fairy is the best type combination. An excellent balance of offense and defense. * * caveat that any meta-game overrun with Rillaboom and Raging Bolt will be inhospitable to anything weak to either Electric or Grass (in other words, MOST Water-types).
Normal being so bad makes total sense, with no resistances to speak of, you always take neutral damage, and so you'll always take stab damage, so really it's almost like you're half weak to everything.
Flying types are immune to grounded hazards and Arena Trap Ghosts are immune to trapping. Dark types are immune to Prankster boosted moves. Fairy and Psychic types are boosted by terrains. All benefits you didn’t account for. You insult my intelligence!
if you had a shedinja(only takes damage from attacks it is weak to) with just electric type(only weak to ground) and that balloon item(ground has no effect) it cant be hurt at all
awesome video man, how bout a video(or short) on a team that can learn all the field moves? dont want to fill the moveset with field moves, and there are 14 of them and 6 pokemon in the team so i think a good way to spread it out would be that 2 pokemon will have 3 field moves and the other 4 two field moves. Oh milk drink counts as one so one of the pokemon has to be milktank.
There's a bit more nuance to the "unique defensive traits" part than was really captured here. 1. Dark type should be on that list since dark types are immune to moves that have increased priority due to the Prankster ability. Not much, but arguably just as important as grass types being immune to powder moves. 2. The benefit of each defensive quality isn't equal; fire types being immune to burn and synergizing with sun combined is more valuable than ground types being immune to sandstorm damage, for example. Giving them all the same score increase doesn't really do the buffs justice, but it's not a big deal in the end Great video, and I'm interested to see where some notoriously bad combos ended up, like rock/steel and bug/flying!
There is a huge flaw with your method for calculating offense score. By limiting it to type advantage, normal and dragon seem to underperform which couldn't be farther from the truth as we know from gens 1-5. Even though they're not super effective against much of anything, their stab moves have such a high base power that it almost feels super effective. In other words, this will feel inaccurate unless you take into account the power of moves as well, which would unfortunately complicate things more.
If abilities r taken into account then Fire & Water r a little worse off offensively being resisted/immune by 6 & 3 abilities which then total upto 71 & 43 mons respectively as of G9.
Nah Steel fire literally can't be the best type combination. It's 4x weak to ground. That's HORRIBLE. CRIPPLING even. The immunities to Poison and burn are nice, but my GOD it doesn't come close to the defensive and offensive behemoth that is Fairy Steel. 2 type immunities and only 2 weakness without a single 4x weakness.
Offensively Steel Fire isn't even better than Steel Fairy! They hit the exact same amount of types for super effective, and both are resisted by 2 types. Something went wrong here.
They hit the same number of types super effectively, but there are way more Pokémon weak to fire than to fairy. Steel and Fairy did come out as the better defensive typing (the best, in fact), but Fire Steel was better offensively. Their final scores were super close, but ultimately Fire and Steel came out just .4 points higher than steel-fairy!
I think you should run this multiple times, each time adding weight to types that are the best in the previous runs. For example, since fire/steel is the statistically best type, that makes ground much, much better.
That's a bad idea. Adding a bonus to types that are good against the best type combo is too arbitrary because that type effectiveness is already taken to account in the calculations
@@TopOfAllWorlds Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean but I don't think it is. The fact that ground is offensively strong against steel and fire is included in the calculations, but the fact that steel and fire make up the best type combination doesn't increase grounds rank.
You say that taking no damage and taking 4X resisted damage isn't that much. Tell that to Aggron who quad resists normal getting hit with a stab silk scarf boosted hyperbeam from something like Pyroar. He might quad resist, but dammit man Aggron has literally triple the defense on the physical side compared to the special. The resist's are gonna matter MUCH more if he's just gonna get CHUNKED like that.
or a video on type loops for starters? how many type 3-loops are there where each is supereffective on the next? can there also be one where additionally each does not deal very effective damage to the one preceding it? how bout one where they all have the same number of immunities to make it fair? can it be done with monotypes or are dual types needed?
I feel like Dark should also be listed as a type with a bonus for 11:15. Prankster immunity is pretty good. Also side note, slightly annoying that water is listed as a bonus going into the defensive score, since rain is purely a offensive tech (and hurting fire doesn't quite apply under as water coverage, though that's balanced out by sun anyway).
you gotta stop ignoring the importance of neutral coverage, and how that makes many types, including the normal type, decent to good, offensively just on that merit
why not use the "cha cha slide" medthos as you call it on the offense too? you even said it's not about the pokemons them selves, so why did you even consider making offensive score be dependent on existing pokemon in the first place?
BEST SINGLE TYPE: STEEL BEST DUAL TYPES: STEEL/FIRE or steel/fairy And people still ask why hiting steel for super effective means a type is good offensively
@@FranXiTAlso still packs a weakness to fighting, a fairly strong offensive type and has a weakness to water, the other type in contention for being the most common offensive type in the game. This is why Heatran has always been good but not dominant. It's typing is very good, it packs a ton of useful resists. But it's not the best by any stretch of the imagination. Those three weaknesses to really common types hurt it a lot. There are better type combinations for steel than fire in practice. I think most people would agree that either steel/fairy or steel/flying are in practice the best type combinations. There's also steel/grass, steel/bug, steel/water, steel/dragon and steel/ghost can all be argued to be at least as good or better than steel/fire. It's a good type combo, but steel has more great/top tier type combos than bad.
@@Lankpants Steel/Flying is one reason why a fire/steel having a 4x weakness to ground isn't a big problem. Fire is the only type that can hit steel types for super effective damage that doesn't have an immunity to nullify it. (Ground & Flying, Fighting & Ghost).
@@mesplin3 yeah, for sure. I don't even think ground is the worst weakness that Heatran has, it's not helping its case but it's not the biggest deal because there's a ton of things that exist to deal with ground specifically. I think the actual bigger issue (and this is relative, fire/steel is still a top 10 type combo) is the water weakness. Being weak to two of the most common attacking types hurts the combo. It makes up for it in other areas, but so do the other good steel type combos and they just have slightly lesser downsides (bug/steel, dragon/steel, water/steel, grass/steel) or slightly greater upsides (ghost/steel) or both (fairy/steel and flying/steel)
@@Lankpants I guess it just depends on the meta. If there a lot of water and ground types, then heatran will struggle to find a niche. But if there are a lot of steel types, then heatran can hit them with STAB fire for neutral damage at least.
That's not how soak works. Why did you think that is how soak worked? Soak makes a pokemon pure water type. It does not add a third type to the pokemon. It it worked how you thought it did, using soak on ground types would be completely useless, which is what it is used for a majority of the times.
Fairy Steel. Next question.
Wolfeyvgc
^^^^^^
I mean... I was expecting this comment 😂
give it levitate while you’re at it
@@MientousGao Don't give Gamefreak ideas. They already love that typing 😅🤣
And this partially explains why Heatran is always in OU
Also, the best combination WITHOUT steel type, by this methodology, is Ground Flying, which feels like it does something to explain Landorus.
@@MrCheeze no it's not, finish the video. The best combo with this method without steel is Ground/Fire.
@@TopOfAllWorlds Huh, the video contains... different data from the spreadsheet? I imagine that the spreadsheet is the accurate one of the two, since it contains the actual calculations, but that's weird.
Just wanna point out, Ghost and Flying also have a hidden benefit. Ghost types can't be trapped. This is especially useful knowledge in the competitive sphere.
And the flying one seems like a tautology because they're already immune to ground, but they're also immune to groundED effects. This means spikes, toxic spikes, terrains, etc.
Dark is immune to prankster
Normal at least used to be immune to paralyze from body slam specifically (probably not big enough to actually take into account lol)
Also grass types being immune to powder type moves (spore, leech seed, stun spore and more
@@bigcrilp7635 grass was listed
In the video
For me, I disagree with having Normal Ghost being low, as it's basically Ghost but with an immunity to itself along with the fact that the amount your STAB hits neutually is quite a lot
Agreed
While I feel like this numerical take is interesting and in line with your modus operandi. It doesn’t take certain things into account like how weather-centric benefits require the weather to be set, how one type being OP can actually make another type better than it otherwise would be (e.g., Fairy’s introduction made poison way more viable than it would be otherwise)
the sub button recognized me when my dad smacked me 😂😢😂
I'm not convinced you can just ignore resists and immunities for offence. In practice some types are offensively strong because they have good neutral coverage. A good example of this is dragon, especially in gen 4 and 5. It rarely gets super effective hits, but it has amazing neutral coverage, which means that dragons can just spam outrage and draco-meteor without suffering any real consequences.
The analysis of normal as the worst offensive type really shows this flaw, because it's just not. There have been plenty of good pure normal type attackers across the years. Tauros, Snorlax and Mega Kangaskhan have literally been the single best mons in their generation and all of them rely on normal STAB a ton, because normal has good neutral coverage. There have been more good normal type attackers throughout the years than bug, poison or grass type attackers, because those types actually have far worse coverage than normal, bug is resisted by almost half of the game and is so bad that in spite of having good bug moves most good bug mons don't run any other than First Impression.
I also think there's a problem with analyzing defense and offense as equally important. Because they're not. A Pokemon with good defensive but bad offensive typing can still do things. Cyclizar and Drampa can switch in on fire, water, ghost and electric, crazy common attacking types. They can then do things other than spam stab when they get into battle. Cyclizar does supportive things and Drampa just clicks fire blast most of the time. If you look at a mon with solid offensive typing but garbage defensive typing like Aurorus it fairs far worse. Aurorus can't do anything because it rarely has switch in opportunities. Every mon carries something that deals with Aurorus, being weak to 6 types, most of which are the best offensive types in the game is completely insurmountable as a weakness.
Any measurement system that doesn't recognize completely useless typings like ice/rock, ice/grass, ice/normal, bug/grass and bug/flying as the worst in the game isn't actually finding the worst types in the game.
Also being immune to a type grants far more defensive benefit than 4x resisting. If you're a ground type then you're immune to thunderwave and random paralysis from electric type moves. If you're a dragon/grass type you can still be paralyzed by these. Steel types are in part the best tanks because they can't be chipped by poison because there's only one mon in the game that can actually poison them. Ghost types get to block rapid spin and the rarer power-up punch. Ignoring the secondary effect of moves is a huge advantage. The difference between a 4x resisted sludge bomb you and being a steel type isn't just chip damage, it's being able to swap into that move over and over without ever risking being poisoned.
Just... all of what you just said...
First of all, great video! The most common complaint I've seen in the comments is how not every type has the same importance of being strong against. For example, being good against Bug or Grass doesn't necessairly makes a type better, because they are weak to a lot of types, while being good against Fairy does, because it's a strong type. So a way to try to "fix" this would be taking in consideration the score of the types themselves when accounting for them. For example, Fairy is a strong type, so it values more than Bug when accounting to the score.
I do think you shortchange the value of being able to inflict widespread neutral damage. That's part of what made Dragon so strong in gens 4 and 5; sure, it didn't hit anything super effectively except other Dragons, but the only type that resisted it was Steel, which could be easily rectified by slotting on a Fire, Ground, and/or Fighting move on your Dragons and/or having a teammate take care of opposing Steels. In fact, a popular team archetype in Gen 5 was "DragMag," which was basically Magnezone to trap and remove opposing Steels then as many as 5 Dragons to repeatedly bombard the enemy team with Outrages, Draco Meteors, and the occasional secondary STAB or coverage move, attempting to seize victory through sheer, unrelenting brute force. And it worked quite well. I get the feeling that this kind of thing is what led to the introduction of the Fairy type, which is immune to Dragon.
Admittedly, without high base power moves like Outrage or Draco Meteor to quickly bludgeon opponents into submission with or without the immense base stats of such monsters as Garchomp, Latias, and Hydreigon, Dragon would not have been nearly as successful. There's a reason you don't see (non-Mega) Altaria in the highest tiers of play.
I could also bring up Normal in gens 1 and (to a lesser extent) 2, but that's probably even more carried by circumstances beyond the inherent value of the type, like how incredibly splashable Body Slam and Hyper Beam were in Gen 1 making having STAB on them all the more appealing or how incredibly centralizing Snorlax was in Gen 2 thanks to its immense bulk and power, not to mention how the change from Stat Experience (allowing all of a Pokemon's stats to be maxed out) to Effort Values (forcing Pokemon to be much more selective in how they allocated their stats) in gen 3 changed the landscape of the game.
I disagree with the method of looking purely at super effective hits for offensive capabilities. Neutral effectiveness tends to be just as, if not more important than super effectiveness to how a good a type is offensively. For example, ghost is an amazing offensive type, not because it hits psychic and ghost super effectively, but because it hits everything except dark and normal at least neutral
was gonna say the same thing, but use normal type as the example
@@Niko__01Another great example is the classic Bolt Beam combo (Electric/Ice). No monotype and very few type combos resist both (AFAIK only certain electric combos, namely Electric/Steel, Electric/Water, Electric/Fire, and Electric/Ice itself)
Link vs jedi ...
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
big win for heatran
Thank you as always for all the math on what i would never quite do myself
A very interesting video. I must say, I did a bit of a double take when I saw you had made this video; funnily enough, I'm currently working on a video on this exact topic! For that video, I used a completely different method from the method you used, and as such, I obtained a completely different ranking. Stay tuned for that...
Also, I couldn't help but notice that at 8:06, your editor claims there are 162 possible type combinations, not counting duplicates. In fact, there are 171 (18 single types and 153 dual types). I'm guessing your editor took the naive answer of 18^2 = 324 type combinations and divided it by 2 without considering that single types don't have any duplicate that needs to be deleted.
I'd be interested in your ranking. I like to compare rankings to my own.
You should take into account b
Abilities like Levitate and flash fire for this
Those aren't types though.
The more wise pokemon fans know that if gamefreak makes a fairy ground pokemon that is fast and can hit hard. well, it will be bad for single battles.. double battles would require it to have synergy so there's hope it ain't good there.
Crobat hard counters that type combo easy
Before finishing video:
Going with fairy and..... no clue. Fairy/fire. Let's go with this. My knowledge is up to Gen 2, but know a little bit here and there outside of those gens.
Edit: I suck
Fairy and Fire was still pretty high up there! It’s a shame there is no fairy and Fire type yet, sound super cool!
@TheChiptide there isn't a fairy/fire?! I've been out of the game for ages now- thought that a firey tinkerbell would be around
Your channel reminds me of the attack swift... because it never misses my dude 😎
I actually disagree with going in more detail with your calculations at the end being pointless. While the Average Method and the Rigorous Method ended up being very similar, there was enough overlap in certain types offenses and defenses that taking a deeper look was a good idea.
Basically, you didn't just prove that Fire/Steel was theoretically the best type, you proved it twice.
I think that, while doing this Numerically is a good way to look at it in a vacuum, Pokemon is NOT a Vacuum, it's not a chance game like Rock Paper Scissors, even that has certain specifics that complicate things beyond just a 1 in 3 chance, but, it's that at the base level-
Pokemon, even if we look at offensive and defensive capabilities given how many pokemon are super effective or resist- puts us in a VERY different situation than if you look at what's actually good, like take Clefable from before Fairy was added to it, at the time, it was pure Normal type, but it can use that to it's advantage, it's a defensive wall that only has one weakness, and given the fact that Clefable has high HP and access to recovery moves, as well as an ability that makes it immune to non-attack chip damage that would normally wear it away. It also, being normal, baits Fighting type attacks, meaning if you know one's coming, you can switch to a ghost type, or some 1/4x resist to fighting, and suddenly, their best answer became a free switch. It's an incredibly strong wall, *BECAUSE* it's normal type-
Snorlax is another good example, most good fighting types and fighting moves are physical attacks, and he has a high physical defense, yes this is looking more at the pokemon than the type as a whole, but, you can't just slap fire/steel onto any pokemon and it suddenly be good, even if all of it's originally stab moves became fire or steel- Look at Heatran, it's really good, and in part that's thanks to it being fire/steel, an absolute tank of a combo that also allows for high damage- BUT- it's also shafted by ground types, and ground having one of the best generic moves ever in Earthquake, which a LOT of pokemon get, it's been known to unironically run Air Balloon, so it can get a move off for sure before getting smacked upside the head with a ground move. And Heatran even has the extra benefit of being immune to fire thanks to it's ability.
If you wanna look at the single statistical best type combo, you don't look at their type's moves and their power and frequency, you need to look at the resistance's and weakness' average power and frequency, and if you wanna narrow it down even further, only choose moves that have a certain power and accuracy, and factor in immunity to certain status moves, so like for example, fire and steel gets shafted by ground, well, how good and frequent is ground? If only 1 in every 10 pokemon learn a ground move worth using, then, sure it's pretty good, but, if it gets closer to 3, 4 or even 5, then suddenly, that 'best type' doesn't look so good anymore. And given how many pokemon can learn either Earthquake, or High Horsepower, and some even have unique ground moves as coverage like Scorching Sands, Fire/Steel's 4x weakness suddenly makes it a detriment, and with pokemon only getting more coverage moves over time, it's *much* more important to look at things like that.
Another good example is the second type you have, Flying/Steel, though this time, it IS worth looking at the inverse, the thing you said you wouldn't bother with since things change all the time, we know fire isn't a common type, but it's high power, we know electric is semi-uncommon, but Thunder generally has a decent set of pokemon that can learn it- so it's defensive type overall is looking pretty good- but offensively, it has like, 4 stab moves worth using, and they're all almost exclusively pokemon dependant, if you want a good physical flying move, you need to either be using Brave Bird, which does recoil, or Fly, which is inaccurate, and has easy counterplay- you can use Aerial Ace, which never misses, but the damage is mediocre at best. So not the best options there- if we look at special, you have ONE good option that multiple pokemon get, that being Air Slash- and Steel is Notorious for having mediocre attacks at best
Yes, all of this can be changed in a year, but, so can the type chart. If Nintendo deems it so, they could make Steel weak to electricity, and weak to Ice, and suddenly it goes from an incredible type to hardly an upside- but if they decide steel is suddenly also strong against flying and poison, and add in more offensive moves, consistent attacks that deal good damage, it has a more offensive niche, and that not only makes it stronger, but it also in turn makes fire stronger, and in turn, makes fairy much, much weaker, by having two things it struggles against become better against it
The Types and their Interactions are incredibly important, but so are the moves and the pokemon that have them- to find the truly best type combo, what you would effectively have to do, is make the ideal pokemon, what pokemon would be carried by it's type, but can also use it to great effect? What combination of types, and abilities, allow it's type to shine the best?
The answer is Zacian
Maybe Flutter Mane
Probably Zacian
havent watched yet but im gonna guess steel ground
Hot take: Water / Fairy is the best type combination. An excellent balance of offense and defense. *
* caveat that any meta-game overrun with Rillaboom and Raging Bolt will be inhospitable to anything weak to either Electric or Grass (in other words, MOST Water-types).
know what this channel needs? a Royal Rumble series that calculates which Pokemon would win each gen's RR based on moves
3:53 Rest in peace DJ Casper.
Normal being so bad makes total sense, with no resistances to speak of, you always take neutral damage, and so you'll always take stab damage, so really it's almost like you're half weak to everything.
Flying types are immune to grounded hazards and Arena Trap Ghosts are immune to trapping. Dark types are immune to Prankster boosted moves. Fairy and Psychic types are boosted by terrains. All benefits you didn’t account for. You insult my intelligence!
if you had a shedinja(only takes damage from attacks it is weak to) with just electric type(only weak to ground) and that balloon item(ground has no effect) it cant be hurt at all
awesome video man, how bout a video(or short) on a team that can learn all the field moves? dont want to fill the moveset with field moves, and there are 14 of them and 6 pokemon in the team so i think a good way to spread it out would be that 2 pokemon will have 3 field moves and the other 4 two field moves. Oh milk drink counts as one so one of the pokemon has to be milktank.
Great vid. If you haven't had enough of types could you consider doing a ranking of every possible triple type
That’s be a BIG list, there’s nearly 3000 possible combinations! Maybe one day when I actually have time…
Pre video predictions, Fairy Ground Fairy Steel or Ice Fighting
There's a bit more nuance to the "unique defensive traits" part than was really captured here.
1. Dark type should be on that list since dark types are immune to moves that have increased priority due to the Prankster ability. Not much, but arguably just as important as grass types being immune to powder moves.
2. The benefit of each defensive quality isn't equal; fire types being immune to burn and synergizing with sun combined is more valuable than ground types being immune to sandstorm damage, for example. Giving them all the same score increase doesn't really do the buffs justice, but it's not a big deal in the end
Great video, and I'm interested to see where some notoriously bad combos ended up, like rock/steel and bug/flying!
I don't how to quantify defensive qualities. I just used the type chart for my rankings. (Which is a little different than TheChiptide's list)
I’m guessing Water/Fairy
I think that combination is pretty good. I think TheChiptide ranked it too low.
There is a huge flaw with your method for calculating offense score. By limiting it to type advantage, normal and dragon seem to underperform which couldn't be farther from the truth as we know from gens 1-5. Even though they're not super effective against much of anything, their stab moves have such a high base power that it almost feels super effective. In other words, this will feel inaccurate unless you take into account the power of moves as well, which would unfortunately complicate things more.
Water dragon is pretty nice
Shoulda added extra detail, or shown example pokemon from the top 10 if they exist. Like what resistances that type combo has.
This is insane
If abilities r taken into account then Fire & Water r a little worse off offensively being resisted/immune by 6 & 3 abilities which then total upto 71 & 43 mons respectively as of G9.
Nah Steel fire literally can't be the best type combination. It's 4x weak to ground. That's HORRIBLE. CRIPPLING even. The immunities to Poison and burn are nice, but my GOD it doesn't come close to the defensive and offensive behemoth that is Fairy Steel. 2 type immunities and only 2 weakness without a single 4x weakness.
Offensively Steel Fire isn't even better than Steel Fairy! They hit the exact same amount of types for super effective, and both are resisted by 2 types. Something went wrong here.
They hit the same number of types super effectively, but there are way more Pokémon weak to fire than to fairy. Steel and Fairy did come out as the better defensive typing (the best, in fact), but Fire Steel was better offensively. Their final scores were super close, but ultimately Fire and Steel came out just .4 points higher than steel-fairy!
@@TheChiptide but the 4x weakness to GROUND of all things is AWFUL! Even in a vacuum, Ground tyle is INCREDIBLE offensively.
@@FranXiTBut the flying type exists. It is immune to ground attacks. This is significant when determining the best type.
@@mesplin3 ???? This has nothing to do with the discussion 💀
I think you should run this multiple times, each time adding weight to types that are the best in the previous runs. For example, since fire/steel is the statistically best type, that makes ground much, much better.
That's a bad idea. Adding a bonus to types that are good against the best type combo is too arbitrary because that type effectiveness is already taken to account in the calculations
@@TopOfAllWorlds Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean but I don't think it is. The fact that ground is offensively strong against steel and fire is included in the calculations, but the fact that steel and fire make up the best type combination doesn't increase grounds rank.
Can you do a video on witch animal is the strongest baysted on what pokemon is it most equivalent to
You say that taking no damage and taking 4X resisted damage isn't that much. Tell that to Aggron who quad resists normal getting hit with a stab silk scarf boosted hyperbeam from something like Pyroar. He might quad resist, but dammit man Aggron has literally triple the defense on the physical side compared to the special. The resist's are gonna matter MUCH more if he's just gonna get CHUNKED like that.
Great video I’ll be watching more for sure.
The brief rant about old people was fucking based
or a video on type loops for starters? how many type 3-loops are there where each is supereffective on the next? can there also be one where additionally each does not deal very effective damage to the one preceding it? how bout one where they all have the same number of immunities to make it fair? can it be done with monotypes or are dual types needed?
Take a shot every time he says type combination
11:28 U-Turn and First Impression would like a word with you
Now find the best steel fire type pokemon
Piloswine line has ground Ice offensive
What about the edge cases through moves where a pokemon can have a third type, or no types?
As far as I'm concerned, something like a "fairy type" doesn't exist in pokemon.
I feel like Dark should also be listed as a type with a bonus for 11:15. Prankster immunity is pretty good.
Also side note, slightly annoying that water is listed as a bonus going into the defensive score, since rain is purely a offensive tech (and hurting fire doesn't quite apply under as water coverage, though that's balanced out by sun anyway).
This ranking looks really similar to the one I made on reddit.
7:08 But 14.9 devide by 2 is not 3.4 but 7.45
Your chart doesn't seem to be ranking fairy type as strongly as it could. Fairy steel is so strong it got magearna banned from OU
If everyone's bugs then no one's bugs
Wiser words were never spoken
you gotta stop ignoring the importance of neutral coverage, and how that makes many types, including the normal type, decent to good, offensively just on that merit
I love that I found this video AFTEr doing my own attempt of figuring out their statistical power on my own…..hours of life wasted….
why not use the "cha cha slide" medthos as you call it on the offense too? you even said it's not about the pokemons them selves, so why did you even consider making offensive score be dependent on existing pokemon in the first place?
at least its specific
I fused Jirachi with Enti after watching this
b4 I watch video my official guess for the algorythim is going to be steel/water or ground/water
I think TheChiptide underestimated Water/Ground.
Fairy/Steel or Dragon/Water
amazing video
Not the table having wrong numbers lol, whyyyyy 7:05
Was he insulting our intelligence?!
@@viggosevenhant5595 The only explanation
Ah shoot, I think I accidentally pulled the final score column from the dual-type chart, not the single one...
I was so confused!
Sooooooo just Heatran
haha, sure got me good!
Ok cultist.
Hey Chiptune 🤗
Bug moves sucks ? U-turn and quiver dance are jokes for youb
BEST SINGLE TYPE: STEEL
BEST DUAL TYPES: STEEL/FIRE or steel/fairy
And people still ask why hiting steel for super effective means a type is good offensively
Steel fire is 4x weak to ground, one of the most common offensive types if not THE most common.
@@FranXiTAlso still packs a weakness to fighting, a fairly strong offensive type and has a weakness to water, the other type in contention for being the most common offensive type in the game. This is why Heatran has always been good but not dominant. It's typing is very good, it packs a ton of useful resists. But it's not the best by any stretch of the imagination. Those three weaknesses to really common types hurt it a lot.
There are better type combinations for steel than fire in practice. I think most people would agree that either steel/fairy or steel/flying are in practice the best type combinations. There's also steel/grass, steel/bug, steel/water, steel/dragon and steel/ghost can all be argued to be at least as good or better than steel/fire. It's a good type combo, but steel has more great/top tier type combos than bad.
@@Lankpants Steel/Flying is one reason why a fire/steel having a 4x weakness to ground isn't a big problem. Fire is the only type that can hit steel types for super effective damage that doesn't have an immunity to nullify it. (Ground & Flying, Fighting & Ghost).
@@mesplin3 yeah, for sure. I don't even think ground is the worst weakness that Heatran has, it's not helping its case but it's not the biggest deal because there's a ton of things that exist to deal with ground specifically. I think the actual bigger issue (and this is relative, fire/steel is still a top 10 type combo) is the water weakness. Being weak to two of the most common attacking types hurts the combo. It makes up for it in other areas, but so do the other good steel type combos and they just have slightly lesser downsides (bug/steel, dragon/steel, water/steel, grass/steel) or slightly greater upsides (ghost/steel) or both (fairy/steel and flying/steel)
@@Lankpants I guess it just depends on the meta. If there a lot of water and ground types, then heatran will struggle to find a niche. But if there are a lot of steel types, then heatran can hit them with STAB fire for neutral damage at least.
Heatran omegalul
Pokémon can have up to 3 types
There are moves like Soak that add an extra type to Pokémon. If you already have 2 types then it adds a third.
That's not how soak works. Why did you think that is how soak worked? Soak makes a pokemon pure water type. It does not add a third type to the pokemon. It it worked how you thought it did, using soak on ground types would be completely useless, which is what it is used for a majority of the times.
@@TopOfAllWorlds there’s also that one attack that adds grass type (or ghost type?) to your Pokémon that was introduced in gen 6
For the algorithm 😂
Let's gooo