Its the same with marine engineering , as crew i often scratch my head about how im supposed to service things , on one trawler I was the only one out of 5 guys who could fit down where the steering gear and stern gland was to grease them or pump it out and even then I had to be pulled straight up to get out
In automotive my job was partly to herd the engineers back into what I called the ‘sheep pen of fiscal reality’ as all too often they were so excited by their idea they would forget to ask if anyone else would be
@@mathewkelly9968 as a former submariner, I feel your pain. Fortunately, *someone* in the design stages must've been a working sailor, because there *was* always a way, even if it wasn't immediately obvious. My father's 'specialty' was designing processes and equipment with the maintainer in mind - speed, convenience, ease of operation - that terrified bureaucrats.
When I was about 8 I'd have my mom drop me off at the library instead of joining her shopping. I always checked out the books on all the XP and XB planes. The ones that never got mass produced. Some were great planes! Thank you, Ed!
The reason the plane was test flown in Evansville, Indiana instead of Farmingdale, NY is because the former Republic aviation plant currently at Highway 41 and St. George housing a plastics warehouse and Sugar Steel warehouse is a short drive from the former Chrysler plant on Maxwell Ave. And Garvin currently housing a warehouse for Escalade Sports. My Grandmother worked at republic in 1944-45. I drive past the plant everyday on my way to work, but when I was growing up it was the big blue Whirlpool building. If you want a fun story in war production look up everything made in Evansville between 1943 and 1952. Everything from .45acp to LST's, to P-47's, to IHC M1 Garands were built here. Btw, most people get it wrong that IHC Garands were made at the old Republic plant. They were assembled at the IHC plant across town where my grandpa worked after the war. Behind the Republic plant there's still berms where they test fired the browning mg guns on the P-47's and other planes they refit and repaired behind the plant. On the Vanderburgh County 4h fair grounds up highway 41 at Boonville-Newharmony Rd. There's still 1 or 2 I think still of what used to be many many when I was a kid ammunition bunkers spaced out on the back 40 where 40mm AA ammo and 75mm tank ammo was stored after being manufactured during the war.
Ed thank you for the information on the XP-47H. As a kid, my two favorite Revell models were the P-47 and P-40. Most of the other kids were into P-51/P-38 and of course the Spitfire.
@Atropus Arbaalish Soviets and Nazis literally had a "peace" treaty for the first years of the war, either way some of the soviet aircraft is indeed nice.
Balls. Germany and the Soviet Union collaborated in destroying non-communist Poland. Were France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Czechoslovakia, Britain and the US communist? The UK was at war with Germany long before Russia.
@atropusarbaalish4214 No they weren't, you need to learn history, on Sep 1st 1939 the Soviets co-invaded Poland with the Germans, the Germans invaded it from the west and the Soviets invaded it from the east. Hitler and Stalin had formed a pact before the war, they were going to carve up Europe between the two of them until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back when he pulled his surprise invasion of Russia in '41. You obviously don't know much about WW2 if that's what you think, try learning history from books instead of listening to people such as yourself who learn and spread misinformation around in the comments section of TH-cam videos. It's because of the pact they had with each other and their plans to carve up Europe between the two of them and Russia invading Poland in a joint operation with Germany is why I have no pity for Russia when people start throwing around the numbers they lost during the war, they brought those hardships on themselves by making their deal with the devil. I can also tell by your comment that you're one of those people who believe and spread around that false nonsense about the US supposedly doing business with Nazi Germany right up to it's entry into the war and according to some all through the war, that's total malarkey that's spread around by people like you who are eager to believe that nonsense so they spread it around without fact checking their information, all that nonsense is based on the fact that there was plants and businesses in Germany that well before the war were built and run by American companies like Ford and IBM, there were indeed, but several years before the war broke out Hitler "nationalized" them, which is a fancy word for stole, he literally declared that the rightful owners, Ford, IBM etc etc, no longer owned them and that they were at that point the property of the government of Germany, naturally the rightful owners in the US demanded payment for what they were worth and continually sent bills to the German government demanding payment for them right up until war was declared between Germany and the US and then after the war those companies demanded payment and reparations for what they'd been worth, people claim that those bills sent to the government of Germany are supposedly proof that they were doing business together but they weren't, claiming they were is nothing more than twisting the truth around to fit a narrative that's a lie.
The XP-47H was a Evansville,IN (RA) constructed & modified aircraft. The XP-47J was a Farmingdale, NY (RE) aircraft. The projects were split between plants to try to meet the initially ambitious development schedule. The XP-47H was modified & developed at the Army Modification Center #16 which was operated by Republic Aviation in Evansville. The video of the test flight takes place at this facility not the Republic Aviation Factory. The Modification Center eventually burned down, but the location is now used for the terminal building for the Evansville Regional Airport. The Evansville Wartime Museum hold in its collection the first huddle canopy put on a P-47. The XP-47K tested the new canopy and was sent to Evansville after the conversion of the Farmingdale line. The canopy of was only portion of that first of its kind to survive the war & future scrappers.
I always get excited when I see a new video from Ed, then I get sad, b/c in my heart I want them to last an hour, but then I'm like stop being greedy and enjoy the great video!
Hi Ed, if you do take requests here, I got an interesting aircraft you could cover. The Lockheed ES-3A Shadow, the EW variant of the S-3 Viking ASW aircraft used by the US Navy. Great work on the video.
S-3! (and variants) Used to call them the 'Hoover,' the 'Vacuum,' and even the 'Whistling Shitcan,' on account of the extremely distinctive sound they made with their high-bypass turbofans. I spent a good chunk of my life at SUBASE San Diego on Point Loma, right across the channel from NAS North Island, and those things were *always* buzzing in and out.
I am not sure if you would consider it to be super prop, The P- 47N which only had six guns, lightened up to be an escort Fighter for very long-range escort Missions like going to Japan with the B-29 was quite the performer. It might have been fascinating to see what a real P-47 ace like Neal Kirby or David Johnson could do with an N model
P47N's had all 8 guns, it held a total of 3,000 .50 cal rounds, 350 rounds each in the six inboard guns and 450 rounds each in the two outboard guns. It's the M variant that had two guns removed to lighten it up, the M variant was the "hot rod" model specially made for the 56th Fighter Group in Europe, it was the first variant to use the Pratt&Whitney R2800-57 engine rated at 2,800 HP, coupled with the features that lightened it up made it the fastest production variant.
Well l was going to say too little, too late , but it was hardly little !!! I did know about this aircraft and l think the engine is on show at a museum in the US . Thanks Ed.
They have 3 examples of the engine, the Chrysler XI-2220. One was at the Chrysler Museum, another is at the Smithsonian, and then another museum whose name escapes me. The Chrysler Museum makes sense!
the P-47 originated form an inline-engine design that was supposed to be part of a "light fighter" competition. It was originally inline-powered, then became the radial monster we all know, then they tried to make it inline again.
Nice topic. Btw - important examples besides those depicted at 0:55 are the Fw 190A to D conversion (and Ta152 etc) and quite a number of Italian fighters that started the war as radial powered models and were developed into DB601/605 inline engined fighters, very similar to the P-36 to P-40 lineage. So in the end it was not as rare as it may seem. Why not add the Tempest II vs V development as well.
This is definitely one of The Oddities that I've never run into. This P-47 looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger had a run-in with Corporal Klinger from mash. My uncle worked on p-47s Stateside during the war and he never told me any stories about this monstrosity.
One more issue with the aircraft: with a nose that long and with the cockpit set over the wings like that, taxiing it would have been a white-knuckle ride in itself, given that forward visibility would have been essentially nil and even doing the slalom on the taxiway wouldn't have helped much.
Funny, seeing that in flight picture, shows off the family resemblance to the F-84 Thunderjet. I guess that the XP-47H wasn't a waste of money and resources after all.
XP-47H was developed to test the 2,500 hp Chrysler XIV-2220-1 16 cylinder inverted V engine. It took a long time to develop this engine apparently because of there was lack of high-strength aluminum alloys and could be resolved through much improved production-line quality control. But soon it was realised that it was much easier and cheaper to develop a jet engine...
Chrysler liked bolting/welding engines together to (hopefully) come up with something more powerful. They also built the 30-cylinder 1,253 cu in (20.5 L) "Multi bank" engine for tanks, with five banks of inline-6 cylinder 4.1 litre engines, only made 370 hp (276 kW) @ 2400 rpm. Would have been an absolute nightmare to work on.
Capable & important as it was just never been a fan of the P47 ( I guess tend to be biased against radials)but also never really got the idea of making such a big, expensive aircraft- but not going whole hog of twin engine design. I rather like look of this P47 version. Be even better with a bubble canopy version.
Twins tend to have bad roll characteristics. It's nice to be able to change direction quickly in a fighter. Also cost even more. The P-38 did great in the PTO but there they had a large speed advantage there. I do have a soft spot for a lot of radial engined fighters but freely admit that they usually are not pretty. That's the appeal for me. Solid workhorses that got the job done. The Luftwaffe was really broken by the chunky -47's and the P-51s just delivered the coup de grâce in many ways. But then again the beautiful Spitfire thoroughbred with her less graceful stable mate Hurricanes had to hold the line until the -47s could arrive and get up to speed. Frankly it's hard for me to think of a fighter I don't like so i guess i'm just babbling on again.
Well, there kinda was. Grumman introduced the twin-engined F7F Tigercat just before the end of the war. The F7 used a pair of C-series R2800s without the turbos. It was pretty fast (440 mph I believe) and apparently a good performer up to 25000 ft or so.
@@sotros1 yes I know. Probably my 2nd favourite of all twin engines planes - elegant & powerful but unfortunately irrelevant due to late service ( exactly same as my no1 the hornet 😍). P47 important, sturdy , powerful...but to my eyes just too bulky, ugly (& I ?believe too expensive to produce)
The XP-47H wasn't ever really in contention to replace the R-2800 engined P-47 for the excellent reason that the R-2800 P-47 was abundantly available. A Griffon or Sabre P-47 would have been been entirely feasible technically, but from the customer's point of view just as redundant as a hypothetical production order for Chrysler engined ones.
That must have involved horrendous juggling with the C. of G. to keep it anywhere near reasonable. Also, the standard P-47 wasn't much fun to taxi. With a nose somewhere in the next county, the "H" could have stood for "Horrible".
Ugh...weird looking, thing. BTW, the XP-47J - with a version of the standard P&W R-2800 Double Wasp? Flew at 504 mph on August 4, 1944. Thanks for this, Ed. ☮
I have doubts as to the performance claims they had hoped for; the frontal drag isn't THAT much less than a regular P-47 - it's just split into two areas, being the engine / prop spinner area, and the radiator / intercooler / oil cooler area. If you brought those about even with eachother, you still have a LOT of frontal drag. The key to this powerplant would have been to go the way of the corsairs, bearcats, etc and put pretty much all of the intake requirements in the wing roots. If they could shave off the majority of the underbelly area on the 47H, it would have been incredibly streamlined, albeit with horrible visibility still (which wasn't mentioned in this video?) The question would be if they'd be able to move the complex ducting and oil lines into the wing roots, which would undoubtedly require a lot of work and likely totally redesigning the wings and fuel systems. If this approach had been taken earlier on, it likely would have resulted in an incredible aircraft, but the beauty of the P-47 was really the design simplicity (minus the turbo) and familiarity of Republic with the P-43. I highly doubt Republic could have successfully pitched a massive and expensive V-16 turbo-supercharged FIGHTER early in the war without the USAAC laughing hysterically.
Two inherent limitations mitigated against this interesting program. The first was an absolute mach number limitation on propeller driven aircraft with piston engines and non-supersonic propellers. This is just physics. The other was the mach number limit on the airframe as designed. It couldn't go much faster, even if it was able to, without going into the transonic range and encountering critical mach number problems. As it was, steep dives in a standard P-47 could be dangerous for these very reasons. Again, physics. All in all, it was an interesting attempt, but it was time to move on to jets.
My understanding was NACA cowlings largely offset the additional drag caused buy the chunkier nose of a radial engine anyway, plus the doublewasp is a monster of an engine putting out stupid amounts of power. I can see why this didn't go further than it did.
NACA cowlings did reduce radial drag, but an air cooled engine has to be an engine first and an imperfect heat exchanger second. It’s compromised. The P51 radiator installation was as good as it gets with near zero drag because of the Meredith effect. I’m not a Mustang fan-too dainty- but credit where credit due. The Mosquito had a good installation getting a twofer from the leading edge stagnation. The best air cooled radial installation is likely the Convair B36. I would not be surprised if the ‘36 had lower drag coefficient (Cd) than the Mustang. Cheers
Has gearing two V-engines together ever worked well? I can't think of an example. Napier in the UK built the H-24 Sabre engine which was eventually OK, although it took a lot of development. They also geared two turboshafts together as the Double Mamba, but that's easier because there are no shocks from cylinders firing. Putting a Rolls-Royce Griffon 61 V-12 in the XP-47H would have allowed testing the aerodynamics in 1943, which might have saved wasted time.
Because this engine was too big to fit into a P-51 or Spitfire. The only other single-engine Allied fighter that mighv'e been big enough was the Hawker Tempest. And this was a US project so naturally they used a US fighter.
i assume having that massive liquid cooled engine made the heaviest single engine of the war even heavier.....i have a hard time believing the millage get better
Too bad they didn't get their hands on a RR Griffon. The size of a Merlin with more power and an available contra-rotating gearbox. That and a more aerodynamic intake/radiator ductwork might've made a difference. The wetted surface of that belly is ridiculous.
How depressing that so many models were just scrapped after so much money and effort. All those hangars going spare after WWII they could have been kept in, too.
I woke up in the night so I gave this a look - no, no, no it’s ‘orrible, I couldn’t get back to sleep 🥲 nice post though Ed, where on earth do you keep finding your gems?
Well if it helped, if they modified the plane at the refit yard at republic Evansville it only had to roll in a straight line about 40 yards to the runway for takeoff... now after landing... 😬 that might have been tricky depending if it landed north or south... But I don't know if it was actually built here or just tested here...
0:35 full credit for describing the P-47 as an iconically chunky fighter, then finding an example of nose art that entirely agrees.
Never underestimate the perversity of aero engineers.
My father was one, and he came up with damnedest ideas.
Its the same with marine engineering , as crew i often scratch my head about how im supposed to service things , on one trawler I was the only one out of 5 guys who could fit down where the steering gear and stern gland was to grease them or pump it out and even then I had to be pulled straight up to get out
In automotive my job was partly to herd the engineers back into what I called the ‘sheep pen of fiscal reality’ as all too often they were so excited by their idea they would forget to ask if anyone else would be
@@charlesmoss8119 "Ferret Herding" is a job.
A rather important one, especially within budget lines.
@@mathewkelly9968 as a former submariner, I feel your pain. Fortunately, *someone* in the design stages must've been a working sailor, because there *was* always a way, even if it wasn't immediately obvious.
My father's 'specialty' was designing processes and equipment with the maintainer in mind - speed, convenience, ease of operation - that terrified bureaucrats.
@@lairdcummings9092 I was an engineer who also repaired equipment and Your Father is now my hero!
When I was about 8 I'd have my mom drop me off at the library instead of joining her shopping. I always checked out the books on all the XP and XB planes. The ones that never got mass produced. Some were great planes! Thank you, Ed!
The reason the plane was test flown in Evansville, Indiana instead of Farmingdale, NY is because the former Republic aviation plant currently at Highway 41 and St. George housing a plastics warehouse and Sugar Steel warehouse is a short drive from the former Chrysler plant on Maxwell Ave. And Garvin currently housing a warehouse for Escalade Sports.
My Grandmother worked at republic in 1944-45. I drive past the plant everyday on my way to work, but when I was growing up it was the big blue Whirlpool building.
If you want a fun story in war production look up everything made in Evansville between 1943 and 1952. Everything from .45acp to LST's, to P-47's, to IHC M1 Garands were built here. Btw, most people get it wrong that IHC Garands were made at the old Republic plant. They were assembled at the IHC plant across town where my grandpa worked after the war.
Behind the Republic plant there's still berms where they test fired the browning mg guns on the P-47's and other planes they refit and repaired behind the plant.
On the Vanderburgh County 4h fair grounds up highway 41 at Boonville-Newharmony Rd. There's still 1 or 2 I think still of what used to be many many when I was a kid ammunition bunkers spaced out on the back 40 where 40mm AA ammo and 75mm tank ammo was stored after being manufactured during the war.
Awesome info man, appreciate the knowledge dump
Is the IHC plant still there? Does the building still exist?
International Harvester didn't make M1's during WW2, they didn't start producing them until the Korean War.
Thanks for sharing this interesting info.
I always knew the jug was a big ol girl, but man that picture with the 190,109, and 51 really puts it into perspective how big the jug really was
He C H O N K
it looks somewhat right, but rather wrong at the same time
A perfect summation.
I kept thinking Disney character something out of cars.
If you take away the massive belly it would look alright.
Edit: It would actually look like the italian G.55 a bit.
Looks like a turboprop conversion - unfortunately instead of making it vastly more simply, they made it vastly more complicated instead lol.
@@randomguyingasmask To be accurate, like its Italian "cousin", the Reggiane Re. 2005.
Aircraft tremble in dread at the prospect of Ed Nash featuring them on his channel.
Looks like a pregnant early Mustang... Thanks, Ed. 👍
The fact that a 3 meter long beast of an engine when bolted into the P-47 looks undersize for that plane give a perspective on how massive the P47 is
Ed thank you for the information on the XP-47H. As a kid, my two favorite Revell models were the
P-47 and P-40. Most of the other kids were into P-51/P-38 and of course the Spitfire.
@Atropus Arbaalish Soviets and Nazis literally had a "peace" treaty for the first years of the war, either way some of the soviet aircraft is indeed nice.
Balls. Germany and the Soviet Union collaborated in destroying non-communist Poland.
Were France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Czechoslovakia, Britain and the US communist?
The UK was at war with Germany long before Russia.
@atropusarbaalish4214
No they weren't, you need to learn history, on Sep 1st 1939 the Soviets co-invaded Poland with the Germans, the Germans invaded it from the west and the Soviets invaded it from the east.
Hitler and Stalin had formed a pact before the war, they were going to carve up Europe between the two of them until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back when he pulled his surprise invasion of Russia in '41.
You obviously don't know much about WW2 if that's what you think, try learning history from books instead of listening to people such as yourself who learn and spread misinformation around in the comments section of TH-cam videos.
It's because of the pact they had with each other and their plans to carve up Europe between the two of them and Russia invading Poland in a joint operation with Germany is why I have no pity for Russia when people start throwing around the numbers they lost during the war, they brought those hardships on themselves by making their deal with the devil.
I can also tell by your comment that you're one of those people who believe and spread around that false nonsense about the US supposedly doing business with Nazi Germany right up to it's entry into the war and according to some all through the war, that's total malarkey that's spread around by people like you who are eager to believe that nonsense so they spread it around without fact checking their information, all that nonsense is based on the fact that there was plants and businesses in Germany that well before the war were built and run by American companies like Ford and IBM, there were indeed, but several years before the war broke out Hitler "nationalized" them, which is a fancy word for stole, he literally declared that the rightful owners, Ford, IBM etc etc, no longer owned them and that they were at that point the property of the government of Germany, naturally the rightful owners in the US demanded payment for what they were worth and continually sent bills to the German government demanding payment for them right up until war was declared between Germany and the US and then after the war those companies demanded payment and reparations for what they'd been worth, people claim that those bills sent to the government of Germany are supposedly proof that they were doing business together but they weren't, claiming they were is nothing more than twisting the truth around to fit a narrative that's a lie.
Thank you.🙏🙏
The XP-47H was a Evansville,IN (RA) constructed & modified aircraft. The XP-47J was a Farmingdale, NY (RE) aircraft. The projects were split between plants to try to meet the initially ambitious development schedule.
The XP-47H was modified & developed at the Army Modification Center #16 which was operated by Republic Aviation in Evansville. The video of the test flight takes place at this facility not the Republic Aviation Factory. The Modification Center eventually burned down, but the location is now used for the terminal building for the Evansville Regional Airport.
The Evansville Wartime Museum hold in its collection the first huddle canopy put on a P-47. The XP-47K tested the new canopy and was sent to Evansville after the conversion of the Farmingdale line. The canopy of was only portion of that first of its kind to survive the war & future scrappers.
@3:55, that plane's profile reminds me of Jimmy Durante, lol. Nice video timed at my nightcap, thanks Ed!
I always get excited when I see a new video from Ed, then I get sad, b/c in my heart I want them to last an hour, but then I'm like stop being greedy and enjoy the great video!
How could I have forgotten a 'plane I didn't know existed? Amazing looking aircraft! 🦈
Hi Ed, if you do take requests here, I got an interesting aircraft you could cover. The Lockheed ES-3A Shadow, the EW variant of the S-3 Viking ASW aircraft used by the US Navy. Great work on the video.
You know, that is an interesting one! I'll put it on my (long) list. Thanks for that. :)
S-3! (and variants)
Used to call them the 'Hoover,' the 'Vacuum,' and even the 'Whistling Shitcan,' on account of the extremely distinctive sound they made with their high-bypass turbofans. I spent a good chunk of my life at SUBASE San Diego on Point Loma, right across the channel from NAS North Island, and those things were *always* buzzing in and out.
the H with the Jugg's later bubble canopy would've looked downright snarl-y
Loved this one. Always found this mash up interesting since I first saw it in a book I had as a kid. it's got some wtf charm.
Excellent Ed thanks.
I am not sure if you would consider it to be super prop, The P- 47N which only had six guns, lightened up to be an escort Fighter for very long-range escort Missions like going to Japan with the B-29 was quite the performer. It might have been fascinating to see what a real P-47 ace like Neal Kirby or David Johnson could do with an N model
Pretty much the same as they could do with a D, but from a base further away
P47N's had all 8 guns, it held a total of 3,000 .50 cal rounds, 350 rounds each in the six inboard guns and 450 rounds each in the two outboard guns.
It's the M variant that had two guns removed to lighten it up, the M variant was the "hot rod" model specially made for the 56th Fighter Group in Europe, it was the first variant to use the Pratt&Whitney R2800-57 engine rated at 2,800 HP, coupled with the features that lightened it up made it the fastest production variant.
@@dukecraig2402 long may the memory of Hub Zemke's Wolfpack live!
Outstanding video and presentation
Well l was going to say too little, too late , but it was hardly little !!! I did know about this aircraft and l think the engine is on show at a museum in the US . Thanks Ed.
They have 3 examples of the engine, the Chrysler XI-2220. One was at the Chrysler Museum, another is at the Smithsonian, and then another museum whose name escapes me.
The Chrysler Museum makes sense!
@@AvengerII Thankyou
bruh this looks like something i would try to draw a P40 fighter when im still a kid :v
but to be fair the redesign was nice tho
the P-47 originated form an inline-engine design that was supposed to be part of a "light fighter" competition.
It was originally inline-powered, then became the radial monster we all know, then they tried to make it inline again.
Always love your videos. Are we on the topic of Republic? Might the XP-72 be next?
The XP-47H would've looked amazing with the bubble canopy.
If you look at this fighter at the right angles, it looks like it has a very happy expression on its "face".
Yeh you are right!😀
Big Boy Aero Design!
Nice topic.
Btw - important examples besides those depicted at 0:55 are the Fw 190A to D conversion (and Ta152 etc) and quite a number of Italian fighters that started the war as radial powered models and were developed into DB601/605 inline engined fighters, very similar to the P-36 to P-40 lineage. So in the end it was not as rare as it may seem. Why not add the Tempest II vs V development as well.
And they are legion amongst bombers.
Excellent.
It looks like something out of that Beatles yellow Submarine film.
that film was terrifying to me as a kid
This is definitely one of The Oddities that I've never run into. This P-47 looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger had a run-in with Corporal Klinger from mash. My uncle worked on p-47s Stateside during the war and he never told me any stories about this monstrosity.
Vídeo Excelente! Gratidão pelas informações!
I've always liked how this aircraft looked
One more issue with the aircraft: with a nose that long and with the cockpit set over the wings like that, taxiing it would have been a white-knuckle ride in itself, given that forward visibility would have been essentially nil and even doing the slalom on the taxiway wouldn't have helped much.
Love the T-bolt
One small problem; would the engine be survivable in ground attack?
I’m not even talking about battling with ME-262 jets.
It looks like a heavy fighter than lost some weight over the summer and starts dressing differently but isn't comfortable in its new body yet.
XP-47H, A GOOD START .
That engine is screaming to be dropped in the 1952 Plymouth coupe. Perfect sleeper car.
Funny, seeing that in flight picture, shows off the family resemblance to the F-84 Thunderjet.
I guess that the XP-47H wasn't a waste of money and resources after all.
I genuinely can't decide if I love it or hate it.
It’s a love/hate relationship.
Excellent content Sir
XP-47H was developed to test the 2,500 hp Chrysler XIV-2220-1 16 cylinder inverted V engine. It took a long time to develop this engine apparently because of there was lack of high-strength aluminum alloys and could be resolved through much improved production-line quality control. But soon it was realised that it was much easier and cheaper to develop a jet engine...
Chrysler liked bolting/welding engines together to (hopefully) come up with something more powerful.
They also built the 30-cylinder 1,253 cu in (20.5 L) "Multi bank" engine for tanks, with five banks of inline-6 cylinder 4.1 litre engines, only made 370 hp (276 kW) @ 2400 rpm.
Would have been an absolute nightmare to work on.
Capable & important as it was just never been a fan of the P47 ( I guess tend to be biased against radials)but also never really got the idea of making such a big, expensive aircraft- but not going whole hog of twin engine design. I rather like look of this P47 version. Be even better with a bubble canopy version.
Twins tend to have bad roll characteristics. It's nice to be able to change direction quickly in a fighter. Also cost even more. The P-38 did great in the PTO but there they had a large speed advantage there. I do have a soft spot for a lot of radial engined fighters but freely admit that they usually are not pretty. That's the appeal for me. Solid workhorses that got the job done. The Luftwaffe was really broken by the chunky -47's and the P-51s just delivered the coup de grâce in many ways. But then again the beautiful Spitfire thoroughbred with her less graceful stable mate Hurricanes had to hold the line until the -47s could arrive and get up to speed. Frankly it's hard for me to think of a fighter I don't like so i guess i'm just babbling on again.
Because the 47 was much more maneuverable than any comparable twin.
Well, there kinda was. Grumman introduced the twin-engined F7F Tigercat just before the end of the war. The F7 used a pair of C-series R2800s without the turbos. It was pretty fast (440 mph I believe) and apparently a good performer up to 25000 ft or so.
@@sotros1 yes I know. Probably my 2nd favourite of all twin engines planes - elegant & powerful but unfortunately irrelevant due to late service ( exactly same as my no1 the hornet 😍). P47 important, sturdy , powerful...but to my eyes just too bulky, ugly (& I ?believe too expensive to produce)
Great video - thanks...
I wonder if the XP47 H would have been a success using a Napier Saber or Rolls Royce Griffon engine
The XP-47H wasn't ever really in contention to replace the R-2800 engined P-47 for the excellent reason that the R-2800 P-47 was abundantly available. A Griffon or Sabre P-47 would have been been entirely feasible technically, but from the customer's point of view just as redundant as a hypothetical production order for Chrysler engined ones.
In profile, this aircraft looks like something you'd see in a cartoon.
From big Jug to milk Jug. Take off must have been a pain in the arse and the underside looks some kind of after market bomb bay
Ye gods, with such a long nose, it must've been a handful on take-off and landing!
That must have involved horrendous juggling with the C. of G. to keep it anywhere near reasonable. Also, the standard P-47 wasn't much fun to taxi. With a nose somewhere in the next county, the "H" could have stood for "Horrible".
The Chrysler Multibank. Fans call it the least troublesome high performance engine ever.
That engine in that plane was the first Hemi by chrysler.
Ugh...weird looking, thing.
BTW, the XP-47J - with a version of the standard P&W R-2800 Double Wasp?
Flew at 504 mph on August 4, 1944.
Thanks for this, Ed.
☮
That was probably the best looking P-47
The renowned "Superman"...
That’s been a matter of dispute for a long time. I think it has now been removed from the P-47 Wikipedia page.
I believe the AAF discounted the 504 claim. They said 495 at 33000 but no more.
@@sotros1 Some are as low as 465. The whole thing is a bit of a bidding war.
Must admit that it looks mean as hell.
I have doubts as to the performance claims they had hoped for; the frontal drag isn't THAT much less than a regular P-47 - it's just split into two areas, being the engine / prop spinner area, and the radiator / intercooler / oil cooler area. If you brought those about even with eachother, you still have a LOT of frontal drag.
The key to this powerplant would have been to go the way of the corsairs, bearcats, etc and put pretty much all of the intake requirements in the wing roots. If they could shave off the majority of the underbelly area on the 47H, it would have been incredibly streamlined, albeit with horrible visibility still (which wasn't mentioned in this video?) The question would be if they'd be able to move the complex ducting and oil lines into the wing roots, which would undoubtedly require a lot of work and likely totally redesigning the wings and fuel systems.
If this approach had been taken earlier on, it likely would have resulted in an incredible aircraft, but the beauty of the P-47 was really the design simplicity (minus the turbo) and familiarity of Republic with the P-43. I highly doubt Republic could have successfully pitched a massive and expensive V-16 turbo-supercharged FIGHTER early in the war without the USAAC laughing hysterically.
Is the forward visibility worse?
Most fighters had zero fwd visibility on the ground. How can you get worse than zero?
Two inherent limitations mitigated against this interesting program. The first was an absolute mach number limitation on propeller driven aircraft with piston engines and non-supersonic propellers. This is just physics. The other was the mach number limit on the airframe as designed. It couldn't go much faster, even if it was able to, without going into the transonic range and encountering critical mach number problems. As it was, steep dives in a standard P-47 could be dangerous for these very reasons. Again, physics. All in all, it was an interesting attempt, but it was time to move on to jets.
That Chrysler engine had hemi combustion chambers.
It was one of their very first hemi engines developed.
In one book I read figures:
660km/h with half closed radiator
600km/h with fully opened radiator.
I would have named it the P Forty bolt! ;-)
I feel XP-72 video incoming
Insane
An example of the XP-47H exists at the Smithsonian Gerber Facility
Only thing remains is, Jay Leno needs to make a car out of one of these engines
SR177 joint venture Saunders and de Haviland about 1958
Did you ever see the B-17 built with 4 liquid-cooled Allison engines?.....looked pretty slippery.
@Aqua Fyre Thanks,
I hate it
Looks like something you would see in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
My understanding was NACA cowlings largely offset the additional drag caused buy the chunkier nose of a radial engine anyway, plus the doublewasp is a monster of an engine putting out stupid amounts of power. I can see why this didn't go further than it did.
Not to mention the legendary ability of the radial to take damage.
V12 engines had big radiators and were no less draggy than radial engines
NACA cowlings did reduce radial drag, but an air cooled engine has to be an engine first and an imperfect heat exchanger second. It’s compromised.
The P51 radiator installation was as good as it gets with near zero drag because of the Meredith effect. I’m not a Mustang fan-too dainty- but credit where credit due. The Mosquito had a good installation getting a twofer from the leading edge stagnation.
The best air cooled radial installation is likely the Convair B36. I would not be surprised if the ‘36 had lower drag coefficient (Cd) than the Mustang. Cheers
Has gearing two V-engines together ever worked well? I can't think of an example. Napier in the UK built the H-24 Sabre engine which was eventually OK, although it took a lot of development. They also geared two turboshafts together as the Double Mamba, but that's easier because there are no shocks from cylinders firing.
Putting a Rolls-Royce Griffon 61 V-12 in the XP-47H would have allowed testing the aerodynamics in 1943, which might have saved wasted time.
Chrysler XIV-2220-1 on display at the New England Air Museum
Why try to make a radial airframe fit this Chrysler engine when we had P-51s, P-40s, Spitfires to shoehorn that in?
Looks like it didn't fit well into a standard Jug so I can't imagine trying to strap it onto the front of a Mustang.
Because this engine was too big to fit into a P-51 or Spitfire. The only other single-engine Allied fighter that mighv'e been big enough was the Hawker Tempest. And this was a US project so naturally they used a US fighter.
i assume having that massive liquid cooled engine made the heaviest single engine of the war even heavier.....i have a hard time believing the millage get better
A very interesting looking aircraft it's lines would have been improved but using a N model frame and the teardrop canopy
New Warthunder premium aircraft?
Very strange too see a bf 109 and a fw190 with USAAF roundels on them.. .30sec into clip
Fw190 - TA152
Looks like a giant Hurricane
Old prop blades too I think (no boots)
Just FYI, here in the States Chrysler is pronounced "KRICE-ler", not "KRIZE-ler".
I've always wondered how you could invert any V style engine without causing a whole lot of oil to go through the pistons.
Me too!
@@offshoretomorrow3346 I never understood those or radials.
Dry sump.
@@thethirdman225 I understand dry sump but oil still gets past bearings to an extend and it tends to go downward.
@@randall1959 The rings should prevent any further downward travel.
I would think that the size of that air intake negates any streamlining achieved at the nose by use of in-line engine !!!
Like many other programs, this looked good in the early war years, but not at the end of the war.
Too bad they didn't get their hands on a RR Griffon. The size of a Merlin with more power and an available contra-rotating gearbox. That and a more aerodynamic intake/radiator ductwork might've made a difference. The wetted surface of that belly is ridiculous.
How depressing that so many models were just scrapped after so much money and effort.
All those hangars going spare after WWII they could have been kept in, too.
As soon as they fitted that Chrysler engine, the airframe began to rust . . .
Looks like a banker smoking a cigar.
We can always count on Republic to come up with a wonky looking aircraft. Not bad, just wonky looking.
First plane I've seen that needs unzipping in WinRar.
Ah a p40 that has been to the buffet table a bit to long
I don't understand why they would scrap something like this. Put it on display.
I woke up in the night so I gave this a look - no, no, no it’s ‘orrible, I couldn’t get back to sleep 🥲 nice post though Ed, where on earth do you keep finding your gems?
*Insert meme of trawling the dark web in the middle of the night, chuckling madly*
I have to say ... this thing looks like a P-51 suffering from steroid abuse.
"XIV-2220", a 16-cylinder? Shouldn't that be "XVI-2220"???? :P :P :P
How much heavier is this compared to the radial version?
The C-series Double Wasps used by the P47 M/N weighed just under 2200 pounds. Not sure about about the Chrysler.
It looks stupid but happy.
2500 hp was way beyond ambitious in 1940.
Taxiing must have been "interesting"! 🤨
Reckon youre right there!
Well if it helped, if they modified the plane at the refit yard at republic Evansville it only had to roll in a straight line about 40 yards to the runway for takeoff... now after landing... 😬 that might have been tricky depending if it landed north or south...
But I don't know if it was actually built here or just tested here...
Ground crew on a wing like they did with P&W P-47s I'd imagine.
@@Bochi42 I've seen pics of the P-40s in North Africa doing that! A mechanic sitting on the wing directing the pilot.
One fine night, a spitfire visited an American airfield to seek some fun. 9 months later …….!!😱😱😱🤯🤯🤯
C H O N K Y B O I S ❤