When the moon has a low elevation, isn't there an atmospheric refractive effect when working at 10gig? In this case the elevation of your dish might be different from what you see with the scope. Just an idea. The higher the elevation the less the difference between both.
At 10 Hz I have not tried it yet, there is no equipment, but at 144 I have already made three connections through the Moon. I have 2X9H and 100 watts. Now I'm preparing a nasal setup.
Dunno Hayden, I've been a part of several conversations at REAST in the past but some how YT vids seem to check a comprehension box in my brain. Thanks for putting this up and cheers Richard & Rex for all your work with EME. 73 - VK7FPCL
Thank you Hayden and Richard for that glimpse of EME, this is something I'd like to get into down the track, possibly on 70cm or some higher frequency? Is the fabrication of RF stuff in the upper bands really as hard as it is sold as, with respect to solder tracks and connectors becoming antennas? I would like to one day, build a transverter, I'm just not sure how I would go about that.
It doesn't have to be. This dish had a feed that would work already on the frequency & it has waveguides and switches, that's about it really. Plug that into a waveguide to SMA transition and you're good to go.
Ever worked EME on 1296? I'm interested in trying microwave/EME but the the VHF/UHF antenna arrays are too big for the QTH. Hoping a high gain dish with a transverter and my 705 will be the ticket. Just wondering your thoughts
@@HamRadioDX Wow I had no idea. Like radiation dangerous? I'm looking into getting into this hobby. A moon bounce would be awesome to do! I've also been looking into radio telescopes people build.
@@TheIrishez Its not ionizing radiation, but it will heat your body, especially on zones with water content, like inner skin, very dangerous for the eyes too, because the high water content. Think of this system is like a small microwave oven shooting a very concentrated ray to the moon :)
For a ham getting into Moonbounce, what is the cost of required hardware seen on the tripod? And now hard is it to "tune up", adjust to get first light?
The transverter and PA is a Kuhne DB6NT design. You can look those up on his website. The dish, tripod, level and adjustments are all from various places picked up over time.
The 60W amp is going to make your eyes water. About 700 euro for the transverter, 4,100 euro for the 60W amp, 240 euro for the LNA, probably close to a thousand dollars US for the power supply, dish, switch, sequencer, tripod and various other bits and bobs you need. So about USD $6k for what's on the tripod, plus USD $1500 for the radio, and another thousand for a couple of laptops. So about $9k. This price can vary tremendously depending on what you build vs what you buy, and some of it has to be found on the surplus market, so that varies a lot as well. As far as tuning, if you buy a premade dish and feed that are already engineered to work together, it is easy. If you make your own, it can be quite fiddly. Most folks on 10G EME use much larger dishes to save money with a lower powered amp. For example, if you use a 1.2 meter dish instead of a 60cm one, you only need a 15W amp for the same transmit performance. It also makes your receiver 6db more sensitive. That would save you several thousand dollars, but it is harder to point.
@@HamRadioDX Hi Hayden, There was a close up of the mount and it is a Celestron. I have a fork mount from a Meade 16" LX200GPS telescope that should make a very stable mount for some EME communications. I can use astronomy software to have the mount track the Moon. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
It's possible, but it's difficult due to ionospheric absorption. At lower frequencies, radio waves can be absorbed by the ionosphere, which can weaken or distort the signal that is being transmitted. Especially below about 30 MHz, which are more likely to be absorbed by the ionosphere than higher frequencies. Lower frequencies can also be affected by other forms of interference, such as man-made noise and natural sources of electromagnetic radiation. These can add to the noise level of the signal and make it more difficult to distinguish the desired signal from other sources.
@@HamRadioDX I was not thinking of HF. I know that most of that gets bounced back to earth. I was thinking about 70 cm or maybe 2m. There is no way I could get anything in the GHz range. But I have VHF and UHF. Someone was talking about someone had a UHF Yage pointing up. That is the only think I could think of was EME.
@@lyingeyes5579I don't think necessarily bad, just a huge latency which makes it usable only for certain things that only require relatively high speeds but not a good latency. Guess no moon bounce gaming for me anytime soon-
Weird. The Earth, Moon, Sun and Milky way Galaxy have combined speeds close to 1 million miles per hour yet a weak beam can return to a 2 foot dish 2.5 seconds later.
@@matthewford5946 It works just like the sunlight that illuminates the Moon - it doesn't come back in a beam. The reflected signal illuminates the entire Moon facing side of the planet. You can hear the signal from the Moon anywhere on Earth that can see the Moon.
Is your system similar to the radio/TV system the astronauts used for radio communication?. I appreciate e technology has greatly improved but I presume the basics would be similar? Fascinating video! 👍👍
You'd be correct Scouter Stu. In fact, the astronauts also use amateur radio on the ISS for communicating with the ground. More information here - www.ariss.org/contact-the-iss.html
crazy. get a hobby, it is a, very awesome, hobby. have fun. But, when you can hear it, why can't the other station hear you? it is the same way, directly to the moon and bck.
@@HamRadioDX 11 stations across Europe with a 7 element 2m yagi when the moon is low to the east. The other stations did the heavy lifting and some of them were quite loud given the path.
Yes, on 23cm with the SGlabs transverter and 25W PA, using a 1.8m solid dish (cheap c-band tv dish) and a good LNA, using a OK1DFC septum feed. The first night i made 5 contact's, later i upgraded to a ~50w G4BAO PA (built from scratch from a kit, very cheap!, under 100usd) and i have worked about 25 stations so far... so you can certainly do EME on 1296Mhz without breaking the bank :)
This is quite bullsheit. Notice you never see the moon. Doesn’t it work when the moon is over hear and wait for it - closer ? Or does it only work when the moon is setting on the horizon and - farther , blocked by the trees as indicated in the video?
Since the earth appears to look and test as flat by laser test, infrared, long distance imaging, and be covered by a firmament dome, perhaps this is more accurately known as some form of dome bounce
...What is the material composition makeup of your Dome? ...Please travel to where the Dome meets Earth's surface. Please do some experiments and show evidence of your Dome.
Our education systems have failed you. Apparently this system assumes you have a minimal IQ, which apparently, you don't have at all. It's a miracle you can write a few word English. Amazing
Anyone know the guys who detected the moon transmissions weren't coming from the moon as there was not long enough delay so it was obvious also that had secret Chanels for talking secrets back to base ie we see crafts following us
I have talked to about everyone on everything, now I'm bored... Oh I know, TONIGHT WE STEAL THE MOON!!! 😂
The complexity of a 10GHz QSO is amazing, wow!!! Just wow! Thanks for posting de KT1R
Thanks for the comment Lou. It is fairly complex but incredibly rewarding! 73 and thanks again
When the moon has a low elevation, isn't there an atmospheric refractive effect when working at 10gig? In this case the elevation of your dish might be different from what you see with the scope. Just an idea. The higher the elevation the less the difference between both.
At 10 Hz I have not tried it yet, there is no equipment, but at 144 I have already made three connections through the Moon. I have 2X9H and 100 watts. Now I'm preparing a nasal setup.
Your best video so far VK7HH...really enjoyable to watch!
Just gotta work on the shakiness of the camera whilst adjusting the dish!!
@@HamRadioDX en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steadicam One of these? :p
60W on 10GHz.... Yoiks!
Dunno Hayden, I've been a part of several conversations at REAST in the past but some how YT vids seem to check a comprehension box in my brain. Thanks for putting this up and cheers Richard & Rex for all your work with EME. 73 - VK7FPCL
Thanks Paul! Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
Ooo, this is 'advanced level'
10 GHz! Amazing signals on terrestrial paths too with that ERP
Great effort... very inspiring ! 73, Hugh VA3TO
Thank you. Please subscribe if you haven't already. 73
Thank you Hayden and Richard for that glimpse of EME, this is something I'd like to get into down the track, possibly on 70cm or some higher frequency?
Is the fabrication of RF stuff in the upper bands really as hard as it is sold as, with respect to solder tracks and connectors becoming antennas?
I would like to one day, build a transverter, I'm just not sure how I would go about that.
It doesn't have to be. This dish had a feed that would work already on the frequency & it has waveguides and switches, that's about it really. Plug that into a waveguide to SMA transition and you're good to go.
Ever worked EME on 1296? I'm interested in trying microwave/EME but the the VHF/UHF antenna arrays are too big for the QTH. Hoping a high gain dish with a transverter and my 705 will be the ticket. Just wondering your thoughts
I'd be a bit leery sticking my eye up to a hole in a dish looking into a feedhorn emitting 60 watts at 10 GHz.
Probably not visible in the photo is really fine mesh across the center of the dish.
@@HamRadioDX Are they dangerous? Is it only when you stand in front of them?
@@TheIrishez Yes. Only dangerous to stand in front of the dish while transmitting
@@HamRadioDX Wow I had no idea. Like radiation dangerous? I'm looking into getting into this hobby. A moon bounce would be awesome to do! I've also been looking into radio telescopes people build.
@@TheIrishez Its not ionizing radiation, but it will heat your body, especially on zones with water content, like inner skin, very dangerous for the eyes too, because the high water content. Think of this system is like a small microwave oven shooting a very concentrated ray to the moon :)
Great effort, i know that you did it next day! Soon i will join the 10GHz Moon party! 73 Miguel CT1BYM
Thanks Muguel. Please subscribe if you haven't already. 73
@@HamRadioDX RR, meanwhile i am QRV EME at 10GHz and 24GHz! ! Great fun, 73
Greetings Hayden, if you two would like a
👉 😁 on your faces... @1:20 if you turn on subtitles, it will say ( Yakedy Sax Resumes ) LoL ☝️‼️
What's the gain of each antenna dish? 30dB or so? If so, 60W becomes 120kW EIRP (both dishes in equation)? Cheers, 73
That's awesome 👍👍
Cheers Aeron
That is great!
Thank you. Please subscribe if you haven't already. 73
Thx for opening my eyes to 10Ghz, not yr typical HF discussion,... part of the hobby not everyone delves in,.. cheers 73s AE1TP A92GW
And whilst that is a complicated looking setup, it can be quite easy to get on 10 GHz! Have a google around for W1GHZ
I couldn't help but wonder how well mounting a dish on a cheap auto tracking telescope tripod. Once set it simply follows the moon across the sky
Freaking fantastic and frustrating at the same time.
Thanks for the sub! 73
Houston we have no problems
Speed of light is not a constant. Did you know it's affected by medium and altitude proving aether
is it possible to bounce signals on earth from space?, also i have in mind that uhf goes through matter, wasnt it supposed to go through the moon?
They doing phone or digital? 🤔
For a ham getting into Moonbounce, what is the cost of required hardware seen on the tripod? And now hard is it to "tune up", adjust to get first light?
The transverter and PA is a Kuhne DB6NT design. You can look those up on his website. The dish, tripod, level and adjustments are all from various places picked up over time.
The 60W amp is going to make your eyes water. About 700 euro for the transverter, 4,100 euro for the 60W amp, 240 euro for the LNA, probably close to a thousand dollars US for the power supply, dish, switch, sequencer, tripod and various other bits and bobs you need. So about USD $6k for what's on the tripod, plus USD $1500 for the radio, and another thousand for a couple of laptops. So about $9k. This price can vary tremendously depending on what you build vs what you buy, and some of it has to be found on the surplus market, so that varies a lot as well. As far as tuning, if you buy a premade dish and feed that are already engineered to work together, it is easy. If you make your own, it can be quite fiddly. Most folks on 10G EME use much larger dishes to save money with a lower powered amp. For example, if you use a 1.2 meter dish instead of a 60cm one, you only need a 15W amp for the same transmit performance. It also makes your receiver 6db more sensitive. That would save you several thousand dollars, but it is harder to point.
Hi Hayden,
Is that a Meade or Celestron fork mount being used for the dish?
Shepherds crook feed I believe
@@HamRadioDX Hi Hayden,
There was a close up of the mount and it is a Celestron. I have a fork mount from a Meade 16" LX200GPS telescope that should make a very stable mount for some EME communications. I can use astronomy software to have the mount track the Moon. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Do Anytone make a mobile radio for this frequency?
Absolutely stunning!
Thanks! 73 and thanks for subscribing
At 0.25mis you point out the moon in the daytime sky. The sky is black because it is night on the other side of the world and is the moon also seen?
I think Ray Naughton VK3ATN (SK) was a pioneer of moonbounce back in the 1960's using Rhombic antennas on VHF.
Sensational stuff
It is!
Enjoyed that ! Fingers crossed for next time👍
Hopefully another attempt toward the end of this month!
I am new. Can EME be done at lower frequency? How low?
It's possible, but it's difficult due to ionospheric absorption.
At lower frequencies, radio waves can be absorbed by the ionosphere, which can weaken or distort the signal that is being transmitted. Especially below about 30 MHz, which are more likely to be absorbed by the ionosphere than higher frequencies.
Lower frequencies can also be affected by other forms of interference, such as man-made noise and natural sources of electromagnetic radiation. These can add to the noise level of the signal and make it more difficult to distinguish the desired signal from other sources.
@@HamRadioDX I was not thinking of HF. I know that most of that gets bounced back to earth. I was thinking about 70 cm or maybe 2m. There is no way I could get anything in the GHz range. But I have VHF and UHF. Someone was talking about someone had a UHF Yage pointing up. That is the only think I could think of was EME.
@@donaldsmith3048yes 2m and 70cm are used for EME.
But ..... Not FM mode, you'd need at least 100w and you'd need a high gain yagi or a dish antenna.
Super interesting setup there.
Thanks!
Is that transverter commercially available or is it home brew?
Hi Tony, yes, link below
shop.kuhne-electronic.com/kuhne/en/shop/converter-transverte/transverter/MKU+10+G4+PROF++3+cm+Transverter/?card=1701
nice
Thank you. Please subscribe if you haven't already. 73
Can this only be done when the moon has not gone beyond the curve of the earth?
The moon needs to be visible to both stations at each end
Very Nice! ;)
Thank you for the comment
What if E.T. transmits a reply during your moon bounce QSO? 😸
Then he goes home
just out of curiosity, do you have the irradiation patter of the dish ?
Interesting! Could be a lot of fun. 73 de KD4HCT
What's the diameter of the dish?
65cm
Amazing, maybe you can bounce internet of the moon if the conection becomes reliable.
Nah. I dont think that will ever be possible. The connection will be insanely bad if possible.
@@lyingeyes5579I don't think necessarily bad, just a huge latency which makes it usable only for certain things that only require relatively high speeds but not a good latency. Guess no moon bounce gaming for me anytime soon-
if radio? not rf radio?
IF Radio. Intermediate Frequency
You even doesn't need moon to bounce the signal 🤣🤣
What?
Apparently he thinks the moon is only present at night
:-D
Weird. The Earth, Moon, Sun and Milky way Galaxy have combined speeds close to 1 million miles per hour yet a weak beam can return to a 2 foot dish 2.5 seconds later.
RF is only as fast as the speed of light. At 300,000km/second that means it's 2.5 seconds before it arrives back here on earth. Thanks for the comment
@@HamRadioDX How wide is the beam returning? Do you project where you are going to be x, y, a axis? Even Apollo aimed where moon would be.
*Weird. The Earth, Moon, Sun and Milky way Galaxy have combined speeds close to 1 million miles per hour...*
Not in our reference frame.
@@matthewford5946 It works just like the sunlight that illuminates the Moon - it doesn't come back in a beam. The reflected signal illuminates the entire Moon facing side of the planet. You can hear the signal from the Moon anywhere on Earth that can see the Moon.
There is no absolute motion my friend.
How wide an area will that return signal cover and how do you calculate where it will land on the Earth's surface?
The reflected signal illuminates the entire half of the planet that is facing the Moon. Anyplace on Earth that can see the Moon can hear it.
could the bounce be used in manufacturing moon landing? Hence Russians never disputed the signal?
No, as the signal would be way more spread out as it should.
Is your system similar to the radio/TV system the astronauts used for radio communication?. I appreciate e technology has greatly improved but I presume the basics would be similar? Fascinating video! 👍👍
You'd be correct Scouter Stu. In fact, the astronauts also use amateur radio on the ISS for communicating with the ground. More information here -
www.ariss.org/contact-the-iss.html
Dit dit dit dit…
crazy. get a hobby, it is a, very awesome, hobby. have fun.
But, when you can hear it, why can't the other station hear you? it is the same way, directly to the moon and bck.
Where's the moon?
In the sky. Has to be visible to both ends.
@vonnierandall238 just not visible in this video other than the thumbnail
Have you done moonbounce or satellite communication before? Let us know below!
Sure have! Jt65b VHF 500w
How many stations have you worked?
@@HamRadioDX 11 stations across Europe with a 7 element 2m yagi when the moon is low to the east. The other stations did the heavy lifting and some of them were quite loud given the path.
I've done satellite, and terrestrial 10G. I'm itching to try 10G EME.
Yes, on 23cm with the SGlabs transverter and 25W PA, using a 1.8m solid dish (cheap c-band tv dish) and a good LNA, using a OK1DFC septum feed. The first night i made 5 contact's, later i upgraded to a ~50w G4BAO PA (built from scratch from a kit, very cheap!, under 100usd) and i have worked about 25 stations so far... so you can certainly do EME on 1296Mhz without breaking the bank :)
This is quite bullsheit. Notice you never see the moon. Doesn’t it work when the moon is over hear and wait for it - closer ? Or does it only work when the moon is setting on the horizon and - farther , blocked by the trees as indicated in the video?
Globe confirmed 💯🌎
Please learn some things before replying.
Since the earth appears to look and test as flat by laser test, infrared, long distance imaging, and be covered by a firmament dome, perhaps this is more accurately known as some form of dome bounce
It only works with the moon. It does not work with a "dome"
So the dome is 240,000 miles up?
All of what you said is factually wrong.
@kitcanyon658 kinda weird how the globe matches with everything we do, test, and use in reality- almost like the earth is a globe ;)
@@meloney100% false. Globe model is completely falsified in every way.
No one checked the forecast? Lol
that sucks grab a microphone and try to talk to someone.
You're the expert champ, you tell me how much power and antenna gain is required at each end to have a voice QSO via the moon..
This has nothing to do with the moon, you are bouncing it off the dome/firmament.
Literally not, you get nothing if you dont aim for the moon
It would be kinda hard to bounce it off something, that doesn't exist.
...What is the material composition makeup of your Dome?
...Please travel to where the Dome meets Earth's surface. Please do some experiments and show evidence of your Dome.
Our education systems have failed you. Apparently this system assumes you have a minimal IQ, which apparently, you don't have at all. It's a miracle you can write a few word English. Amazing
The bible says that birds fly in the "firmament" so obviously it is the sky.
Globe confirmed 🌎💯
Anyone know the guys who detected the moon transmissions weren't coming from the moon as there was not long enough delay so it was obvious also that had secret Chanels for talking secrets back to base ie we see crafts following us
Whatever you say champ
You're weird. Anti science troll