Another case of spokes not having any redundancy by being "free" in the hub and only being held with tension. Imagine one spoke snapping at high speed, the other spokes will adjust to compensate and you have high risk of a loose one popping off on the side. These types of hubs/wheels should just be illegal. edit: They do not even need to "break", just a change in tension can end up loosening a spoke enough to get it to "pop" out of the hub. Mavic used to make hubs like this and they don't anymore in case anyone is wondering...
@@stevenleffanue On a traditionally hub, the spokes are captive. If for any reason, you lose tension in 1 or 2 spokes, the other spokes are fine and while yes, the wheel will lose true, it will still remain a wheel. On these 'free' spokes, if a few spokes lose tension for some reason, ALL the spokes can come free from the hub, and the wheel will completely lose its structure. The result, is a much more catastrophic failure. That is the complaint here.
Do you have any specific examples of this actually happening? I have built many wheels, been a bike mechanic for 20 years and never heard or seen that happen.
@@stevenleffanue Being a 90kg rider, I have had spokes break before at speeds of 30-40km/h (not due to accidents but due to high km spoke fatigue or poor wheel design). In all cases, these hubs had a cover over the spoke heads to prevent rapid spoke delacing of the wheel. I don't think I would ride with a front hub without a spoke head cover. Example #1: 16 spoke front Shimano WH-7850 Dura Ace wheels towards the end of the life of rim ~30,000km (so significant amount of fatigue) for a low spoke count wheel. Example #2: 20 spoke front Mavic Kysrium Equipe wheel - high kilometre fatigue (lots of potholes hit riding in the dark along the Great Ocean Rd in Victoria). Example #3: 18 spoke front SRAM S30AL Sprint wheelset which had a design flaw (the inverted, hidden spoke nipple washers were too thin which split causing rapid detensioning of the spoke and spoke failure). I had one spoke fail at 40km/h which resulted in a 2nd spoke to fail as I was emergency braking. This nearly resulted in a crash. I hate to think what would have happened if these didn't have a cover over the spoke heads. Example #4??? However, I recently picked up a rear Kysrium SL rear wheel from the hard rubbish here in Melbourne which has some brake track life left in it and noticed that it doesn't have any cover over the spoke heads. I think I will risk it, as it is only rear wheel.
Your video reviews are always top notch and cover everything, that said I watched the entire video even though I don't want or have a use for carbon wheels. I'm a fan of aluminum wheels because I trust the material over carbon.
@@morneauh But I can buy or rather build my own, two sets of aluminum wheels for the price of one set of carbon wheels. I only build my own wheels these days because of the options I choose. I like totally silent hubs for one thing. Steel CXRay Spokes, not bladed, and rims that are asymmetrical. And if a rim were to get bent, I can just replace the rim very easily for about $130.😉
@@Raymond-Farts Carbon rim are getting close to that price nowadays. You can have a look first next time you rebuild. Personally I prefer to by once and not have to worry about it down the line. In fact I don't think my current set of carbon rim are much more than $130.
@@morneauh Carbon is a crap material for a bicycle. The problem is not everybody has learned that yet. Also bad for the environment, which is something no one can argue with.
I was wondering what I was hearing... but it was the aussie wildlife in the background. Not one to be buying disk road wheels but they are quite nice seeming with the gloss finish and high flange on one side of the hub design. I am a weirdo who likes the pawl and spring hubs since they tend to be quieter then dt swiss variants.
steve when reading from your teleprompter shilling this product please at least provide a technical overview of the pros and cons of this product's spoke and hub architecture
Your content is very good. As a constructive criticism, the video quality is holding it back a little bit. Maybe it's the camera, or maybe it's the exportation quality in the video editing software, but i would take it into consideration. Cheers!
where do i find these wheels haha. im gonna buy the new budget madone and do some upgrades starting with the wheels.. any cheap maybe chinese carbon wheels you'd recommend ? 50 ~ 60mm
1500 AUD = 992 USD = 762GBP.....that makes them cheap in my book.....Farsports S 1299usd 1330g 58mm , Lun Hyper 1599usd 1450g fro 67mm . the latter are slightly narrower. The Hypers were cutting edge a few years back but are clearly falling behind with the latest generations. The farsports will get you similar width but lighter and a DT swiss style ratchet for 30% more cost.
I do not like the open hub flange design where the spokes sit. A spoke failure courts a catastrophic failure where the loosened spokes pop out. Scary enough to keep me away. imho. Otherwise looks like a very well made wheelset.
really appreciate the detail and diligence you put into these vids! Here's a vid that Peak Torque did about spokes falling out of those secured-only-by-tension spokes. Would love to hear your take on that! th-cam.com/video/2HQrkIL87g4/w-d-xo.html
@@stevenleffanue correct, not causing the the accident. Sorry I interpreted you saying it as "spoke detensioning is not realistically possible from my experience" 23:14 when it sounds like you mean "spoke detensioning has never occurred under normal riding conditions in my experience". Although it should be noted that when an accident does occur and the spokes detension, I can imagine it exacerbating injuries.
i don't understand how this wheel set is "the beginning of the new generation" -- it's a reasonably spec'd and clearly well-QC'd wheel, but with very traditional rachet in the rear, and a familiar design of rim?
Hi Oz cycles love your videos and reviews. Very informative. I’m currently looking at getting some new wheels. I currently have roval c38 and have been looking a fair bit at the elite drive wheels and just wondering what sort of rim depth you would suggest. I do have an idea maybe 45 front 65 rear. I live in Tassie so there is a fair bit of climbing around as well just running on what your thoughts were or whether I stick with maybe a 5050 backand the other option is I do have an option to look at some vision Metron SL 60s love to get your advice. Thanks so much for your time.
I've not ridden Metrons. Drives and 8liens are very close in wheel performance. If you got rough roads the 8liens would be the pick because you can run bigger tyres for comfort, control and not have to worry about potholes so much.
Wow! These wheels look like a good option! Thanks for the great review.
Another case of spokes not having any redundancy by being "free" in the hub and only being held with tension. Imagine one spoke snapping at high speed, the other spokes will adjust to compensate and you have high risk of a loose one popping off on the side. These types of hubs/wheels should just be illegal.
edit: They do not even need to "break", just a change in tension can end up loosening a spoke enough to get it to "pop" out of the hub. Mavic used to make hubs like this and they don't anymore in case anyone is wondering...
Spokes usually break from an accident. Why would a spoke snap at high speed?
@@stevenleffanue On a traditionally hub, the spokes are captive. If for any reason, you lose tension in 1 or 2 spokes, the other spokes are fine and while yes, the wheel will lose true, it will still remain a wheel. On these 'free' spokes, if a few spokes lose tension for some reason, ALL the spokes can come free from the hub, and the wheel will completely lose its structure. The result, is a much more catastrophic failure. That is the complaint here.
Do you have any specific examples of this actually happening? I have built many wheels, been a bike mechanic for 20 years and never heard or seen that happen.
@@stevenleffanue Being a 90kg rider, I have had spokes break before at speeds of 30-40km/h (not due to accidents but due to high km spoke fatigue or poor wheel design). In all cases, these hubs had a cover over the spoke heads to prevent rapid spoke delacing of the wheel. I don't think I would ride with a front hub without a spoke head cover.
Example #1: 16 spoke front Shimano WH-7850 Dura Ace wheels towards the end of the life of rim ~30,000km (so significant amount of fatigue) for a low spoke count wheel.
Example #2: 20 spoke front Mavic Kysrium Equipe wheel - high kilometre fatigue (lots of potholes hit riding in the dark along the Great Ocean Rd in Victoria).
Example #3: 18 spoke front SRAM S30AL Sprint wheelset which had a design flaw (the inverted, hidden spoke nipple washers were too thin which split causing rapid detensioning of the spoke and spoke failure). I had one spoke fail at 40km/h which resulted in a 2nd spoke to fail as I was emergency braking. This nearly resulted in a crash. I hate to think what would have happened if these didn't have a cover over the spoke heads.
Example #4??? However, I recently picked up a rear Kysrium SL rear wheel from the hard rubbish here in Melbourne which has some brake track life left in it and noticed that it doesn't have any cover over the spoke heads. I think I will risk it, as it is only rear wheel.
@@m5louks1 th-cam.com/video/2HQrkIL87g4/w-d-xo.html
Very beautiful ❤️ great job 👍
Great review. Thank you. I’ll put these on my watch list for future purchase
That's is crazy good wheel with crazy good price.
Fantastic looking wheels. The Pro+ ones look even better!
Great review.
Yes , good choice. I would have gone for the Pro+ too but I wanted the extra wide option.
@@stevenleffanue I hope more manufacturers make more of the wider (>21mm internal) wheels to fit better with 30mm+ road tires
great job, very good review. thx and keep on 🚲
Great review. Thank you for posting.
Your video reviews are always top notch and cover everything, that said I watched the entire video even though I don't want or have a use for carbon wheels. I'm a fan of aluminum wheels because I trust the material over carbon.
Understandable. Try a carbon wheelset one day, tho , even if it's a borrowed set , they are a lot stronger than most people give them credit
If anything carbon wheel are stronger. You hit a pothole with carbon, nothing happens, aluminum tend to bend over time.
@@morneauh But I can buy or rather build my own, two sets of aluminum wheels for the price of one set of carbon wheels. I only build my own wheels these days because of the options I choose. I like totally silent hubs for one thing. Steel CXRay Spokes, not bladed, and rims that are asymmetrical. And if a rim were to get bent, I can just replace the rim very easily for about $130.😉
@@Raymond-Farts Carbon rim are getting close to that price nowadays. You can have a look first next time you rebuild. Personally I prefer to by once and not have to worry about it down the line. In fact I don't think my current set of carbon rim are much more than $130.
@@morneauh Carbon is a crap material for a bicycle. The problem is not everybody has learned that yet. Also bad for the environment, which is something no one can argue with.
Excellent review.
I was wondering what I was hearing... but it was the aussie wildlife in the background. Not one to be buying disk road wheels but they are quite nice seeming with the gloss finish and high flange on one side of the hub design. I am a weirdo who likes the pawl and spring hubs since they tend to be quieter then dt swiss variants.
beautiful, cheers from chile 🇨🇱
Amazing video.
Where to buy???
www.up-vine.cn/?lang=en
Thanks for sharing.
this kind wheel as i like no 6 wheels even use 28c maxxis it ended sized 30mm in wide. very good wheels
Speaking of servicing the DTSwiss free hub is there an alternative grease that does not cost a fortune?
Almost any medium viscosity grease will do , it's a sales gimmick to say you need special grease for it.
@@stevenleffanue Thank you, anything specific? I'll use what your using.
Talk abut the hubs used in these wheelsets.
Hubs are similar design to Fulcrum which is Campagnolo
China has a 3 thousand year history of extraordinary craftsmanship. Pleased to see that it continues in many of the products they produce.
and a history of stealing Intellectual property of Western technology which they then proceed to clone.
steve when reading from your teleprompter shilling this product please at least provide a technical overview of the pros and cons of this product's spoke and hub architecture
Your content is very good. As a constructive criticism, the video quality is holding it back a little bit. Maybe it's the camera, or maybe it's the exportation quality in the video editing software, but i would take it into consideration. Cheers!
Yeh my computer is getting old now
where do i find these wheels haha. im gonna buy the new budget madone and do some upgrades starting with the wheels.. any cheap maybe chinese carbon wheels you'd recommend ? 50 ~ 60mm
What finish is your Malone??...gloss/matt ?
@@stevenleffanue matt
@@stevenleffanue i honestly dont mind either actually
Usually matching the finish of the wheels with the frameset looks best. Ie: glossy frame finish matches glossy wheels finish
@@stevenleffanue i see i see
Microspline?
1500 AUD = 992 USD = 762GBP.....that makes them cheap in my book.....Farsports S 1299usd 1330g 58mm , Lun Hyper 1599usd 1450g fro 67mm . the latter are slightly narrower. The Hypers were cutting edge a few years back but are clearly falling behind with the latest generations. The farsports will get you similar width but lighter and a DT swiss style ratchet for 30% more cost.
It’s these types of wheels that are making me consider switching from my RIM brake 😭
Have both....2 bikes 😁
I do not like the open hub flange design where the spokes sit. A spoke failure courts a catastrophic failure where the loosened spokes pop out. Scary enough to keep me away. imho. Otherwise looks like a very well made wheelset.
Which brand would you recommend ?
Not seen evidence of that yet??
did you get the wheels for free?
All wheels are supplied at no charge but cannot be resold unless declared for import duty.
👍👍👍👍👍
$992.00 US dollars.
Hub flanges look really fragile..
🥶🥶🥶🥶
Machined from billeted alluminium. Tried and tested a lot before selling the product.
really appreciate the detail and diligence you put into these vids!
Here's a vid that Peak Torque did about spokes falling out of those secured-only-by-tension spokes. Would love to hear your take on that!
th-cam.com/video/2HQrkIL87g4/w-d-xo.html
The wheel was involved in an accident, not necessary caused by the spoke to hub connection.
@@stevenleffanue correct, not causing the the accident. Sorry I interpreted you saying it as "spoke detensioning is not realistically possible from my experience" 23:14 when it sounds like you mean "spoke detensioning has never occurred under normal riding conditions in my experience".
Although it should be noted that when an accident does occur and the spokes detension, I can imagine it exacerbating injuries.
i don't understand how this wheel set is "the beginning of the new generation" -- it's a reasonably spec'd and clearly well-QC'd wheel, but with very traditional rachet in the rear, and a familiar design of rim?
It's the 'width' and 'weight for width' which sets the new generation from the older style carbon rims.
Hi Oz cycles love your videos and reviews. Very informative. I’m currently looking at getting some new wheels. I currently have roval c38 and have been looking a fair bit at the elite drive wheels and just wondering what sort of rim depth you would suggest. I do have an idea maybe 45 front 65 rear. I live in Tassie so there is a fair bit of climbing around as well just running on what your thoughts were or whether I stick with maybe a 5050 backand the other option is I do have an option to look at some vision Metron SL 60s love to get your advice. Thanks so much for your time.
I've not ridden Metrons. Drives and 8liens are very close in wheel performance. If you got rough roads the 8liens would be the pick because you can run bigger tyres for comfort, control and not have to worry about potholes so much.
@ nice my frame is maxed to 30mm Tyers
GGGGGGAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY..........
man that trek shirt looks sick where did you get one?
Work on the team.....haha...no , it's from Aliexpress