Well, an interesting signpost to the current times where i think its fair to say motherhood is even less valued, extended family more estranged, and women more confused due to cultural changes. Good chat.
Fromm is off the mark in focusing on the attachment to the mother to explain the Oedipus complex.The Oedipal conflict is about triangularization and observable in young children, even toddlers, who become upset at its parents' exchange of tender gestures. Girls experience the complex as well, and the claim to exclusive attachment may switch from mother to father, with hostility directed at the parent excluded. In this sense the oedipal complex is about a modality of relationship characterized by the attempt to maintain a closed dyadic bond with one of the parents and not sharing the affection of that parent. As such it is a claim of possession that must be disabused by reality.
Even if it's a relationship of dependence between mother and son, it is differentiable from a relationship of father and son. A mother's love is more unconditional, after all. A great mind like Eric Fromm must have comprehended that, at least it seems obvious to me by listening Fromm's recording in first few minutes. So, I find it rather ignorant of that guy to assume that somehow Fromm wasn't able to understand the difference. (09:40)
MANY mothers fail to liberate their children... On the other hand... Modern societies fail to teach children that they have a responsibility to return to their parents, especially in old age, what they received from them in the early stages of their lives.
Striking that Fromm does not go into Freud's idea that the child relationship to his mom is not mainly about dependence, but is erotic in the sexual sense. the child, therefore, needs first, to learn that his mother is not a client for his genital-sexual drives, second, that to gain a mature erotic love with a woman is different than to continue the infantile love relationship with his mother, which is a different kind of love, or at least, it ought to be.
E. Fromm is postulating that the attachment of a mother and child should be seen primarily as one of close interdependence of needs, physical and emotional. He does Not acknowledge that the sexual nature of the Oedipus complex is mostly to be understood symbolically in psycho-analysis. -----The comparison between the roles of women in the USA and India should Not be put in competition. The role of mothers' in the context of the extended family, with aunt's and others helping in the mother's role is vital in Indian life as is most of the older cultures including Aboriginal American. The role of women in the USA as being more educated and in positions of employment and power is said in the talk to substitute, or sublimate the nature of the woman as mother. On the contrary, the ideal as I see it is for the combination of the roles of the woman as mother, and women as equal partner to men in education and professional employment. The archetype of the goddess is the common link for all humanity in understanding the feminine.
Gosh, these American dudes are so ignorant! Not only in doubting Fromm's findings, but also in assuming that the American mother is more loving / respected than the Indian mother. Especially the Indian mother is the most self-sacrifying mother in the earth. And most revered is the Muslim mother. Muslims say paradise lies under the feet of the mother... The Western mother, in comparison to the Indian mother or the Muslim mother, is most detached. And also the children of the Western mother are detached from her.
I thought it's psychology. Well I disagree with it completely that the child is free if he loves another woman more than the mother.1. as you are bringing the competition between women in a men's life. 2. A child is not only male so what about the female part.
It was never said that one is free if one loves another woman more than they love their own mother. It was stated as an outcome to be achieved, if one successfully severs those infantile bonds which can impede on one’s growth and maturation. Second, no one is bringing competition between women into anything. That is an inevitable outcome if the mother doesn’t allow her child to individuate. There’s plenty of evidence for these occurrences. And in reference to your question of what about female children, the Oedipus complex refers to male children. The Electra complex offers a comparable theory for females. What do you mean by, “I thought it’s psychology”?
I agree. The nature of love should be such that it is Not based on comparison and preference; for the mother or wife for example. For the male to find the feminine within himself, what C. Jung calls the anima, manifests in the mature man who sees the female divinity (and the male) in all people.
Well, hailing mother goddess concept , could you be able to put light on why after 4 to 5 years the so called dignified mother desires to give birth again what prompts the urge, why such deeper insecurities!
Mother's concept is out of the necessity to keep women overwhelmed and docile to men whereas it has nothing to do with unconditional love all the contemporary mother concepts are to serve only this necessity.
I can't help but notice the level of intellectual thought that used to exist in American media as opposed to the dumbed down side show it is today.
Indeed.
Not even the same universe now. Utterly transformed.
Fromm is from Germany.
Same happened with BBC
The insecurities sprung with more dominance whereas in societies where motherhood is taken as goddess are doomed deeper.
This is some heavy shit
Well, an interesting signpost to the current times where i think its fair to say motherhood is even less valued, extended family more estranged, and women more confused due to cultural changes. Good chat.
The mother in any society protects its interests only which already she infers from the society.
What a great mind that 7 million listens right and who are the 2 idiots who didn't like it.
Your shadow projection is showing
Fromm is off the mark in focusing on the attachment to the mother to explain the Oedipus complex.The Oedipal conflict is about triangularization and observable in young children, even toddlers, who become upset at its parents' exchange of tender gestures. Girls experience the complex as well, and the claim to exclusive attachment may switch from mother to father, with hostility directed at the parent excluded. In this sense the oedipal complex is about a modality of relationship characterized by the attempt to maintain a closed dyadic bond with one of the parents and not sharing the affection of that parent. As such it is a claim of possession that must be disabused by reality.
thank you.
The mother is or can't be created it is a learned attribute therefore us not automated.
Even if it's a relationship of dependence between mother and son, it is differentiable from a relationship of father and son. A mother's love is more unconditional, after all. A great mind like Eric Fromm must have comprehended that, at least it seems obvious to me by listening Fromm's recording in first few minutes.
So, I find it rather ignorant of that guy to assume that somehow Fromm wasn't able to understand the difference. (09:40)
@Make Me Believe Possessive yes, but more forgiving too. We are talking relatively, right?
The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness
MANY mothers fail to liberate their children...
On the other hand...
Modern societies fail to teach children that they have a responsibility to return to their parents, especially in old age, what they received from them in the early stages of their lives.
Striking that Fromm does not go into Freud's idea that the child relationship to his mom is not mainly about dependence, but is erotic in the sexual sense. the child, therefore, needs first, to learn that his mother is not a client for his genital-sexual drives, second, that to gain a mature erotic love with a woman is different than to continue the infantile love relationship with his mother, which is a different kind of love, or at least, it ought to be.
E. Fromm is postulating that the attachment of a mother and child should be seen primarily as one of close interdependence of needs, physical and emotional. He does Not acknowledge that the sexual nature of the Oedipus complex is mostly to be understood symbolically in psycho-analysis. -----The comparison between the roles of women in the USA and India should Not be put in competition. The role of mothers' in the context of the extended family, with aunt's and others helping in the mother's role is vital in Indian life as is most of the older cultures including Aboriginal American. The role of women in the USA as being more educated and in positions of employment and power is said in the talk to substitute, or sublimate the nature of the woman as mother. On the contrary, the ideal as I see it is for the combination of the roles of the woman as mother, and women as equal partner to men in education and professional employment. The archetype of the goddess is the common link for all humanity in understanding the feminine.
nice
Tx
Gosh, these American dudes are so ignorant!
Not only in doubting Fromm's findings, but also in assuming that the American mother is more loving / respected than the Indian mother.
Especially the Indian mother is the most self-sacrifying mother in the earth. And most revered is the Muslim mother. Muslims say paradise lies under the feet of the mother... The Western mother, in comparison to the Indian mother or the Muslim mother, is most detached. And also the children of the Western mother are detached from her.
When I See Mommy I Feel Like Mummy
I thought it's psychology.
Well I disagree with it completely that the child is free if he loves another woman more than the mother.1. as you are bringing the competition between women in a men's life. 2. A child is not only male so what about the female part.
It was never said that one is free if one loves another woman more than they love their own mother. It was stated as an outcome to be achieved, if one successfully severs those infantile bonds which can impede on one’s growth and maturation.
Second, no one is bringing competition between women into anything. That is an inevitable outcome if the mother doesn’t allow her child to individuate. There’s plenty of evidence for these occurrences. And in reference to your question of what about female children, the Oedipus complex refers to male children. The Electra complex offers a comparable theory for females.
What do you mean by, “I thought it’s psychology”?
I agree. The nature of love should be such that it is Not based on comparison and preference; for the mother or wife for example. For the male to find the feminine within himself, what C. Jung calls the anima, manifests in the mature man who sees the female divinity (and the male) in all people.
From where the bible comes?
Well, hailing mother goddess concept , could you be able to put light on why after 4 to 5 years the so called dignified mother desires to give birth again what prompts the urge, why such deeper insecurities!
Mother's concept is out of the necessity to keep women overwhelmed and docile to men whereas it has nothing to do with unconditional love all the contemporary mother concepts are to serve only this necessity.
The Oedipus c is a myth gibberish trams