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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- I took the plunge this week and designed a very simple PCB so that PCBWay could manufacture it just like the thousands they do every week.
Video sponsored by www.pcbway.com
After they invited me to do a sponsored unboxing video, I designed a simple NE555 LED flasher circuit following an online tutorial. Whilst the design results were aesthetically pretty dire, the PCB worked with just a quick design adjustment. Read my blog for more details of this: ralphbacon.blog
PCBWay themselves were true to their word - and I had no special privileges once I had submitted my design files in Gerber format. I was just another customer awaiting my PCB!
PCBWay inspected the design to ensure I hadn't made any fundamental design errors (such as running too close to a PCB pad) and then passed it along the manufacturing process.
From the time I submitted the design, on Thursday around lunchtime, the PCBs were returned to me by DHL on Monday, around 10am.
I find that turnaround impressive.
A cheaper (but slightly riskier, and lengthier) method of delivery is with China Post, and you can decide which one suits you best. Other options are available too.
There are a couple of things PCBway.com offer that I highlight in this promotional video - such as assembly of your board for just $88 (up to 10 pieces). They can even source the components.
They also have regular competitions, so if you design a board and have it manufactured by them, do enter the competition. Someone must win, after all!
I've given an honest and independent review of PCBWay.com's PCB design service in this video - see what you think.
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My channel and blog are here:
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/ ralphbacon
ralphbacon.blog
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Hi Ralph...….First impressions often last, and I'm happy that you had a good impression of PCBWay. My story is very similar indeed as it too began a long, long time ago in a galax…..Oooop's, sorry, early start on the eggnog!....I used to make single sided PCB's the same way you described by simply drawing them freehand with an etch resist pen, usually bought along side ferric chloride crystals from my local Maplin shop, as a young prototype wireman my tools where little more than a pencil and a piece of graph paper, but I loved it (back when I got paid to pursue my hobby !)….At the beginning of this year I had a go with EasyEDA, this was my first experience with any form of CAD, and after initially finding the whole experience very frustrating it all fell into place and sorta clicked ….it made sense ! and became great fun. JLCPCB was my logical choice of manufacturer as they are closely tied to the cloud based software, and the ordering was as smooth as silk, they offer the same sort of deal that you described but ever so slightly cheaper (not by much and I'm not affiliated to them !) I had several PCB's made this way and I still look at them and cant believe it, so cheap, so good, so quick!..... anyhow I then moved on to KICAD, pronounced "KeyCad" by the team who wrote it, and after getting used to a complicated libary structure, fell for it too, its open source and used by professionals and is not cloud based and its a full installation, but when it came to PCB,s I went to JLCPCB because I had a great first impression. So for anyone reading this I guess you should try these services because they seem good all round, and as for Eagle never tried it, and I don't think I will, as KICAD will keep me busy learning for many years to come. Maybe you will give it a go Ralph?....Merry Christmas to you Benny and family!
Like you, Andy, I found it quite frustrating at first but I knew that perseverance was key. Unfortunately I was under a self-imposed time constraint so I rushed it and ended up with a rubbish design - but I learned so much along the way (and much more afterwards) so I am now looking forward to designing a proper board (using KiCAD or EasyEDA) that looks good and serves a useful purpose too.
I notice that there are a lot of JCLPCB mentions here - probably why PCBWay wants more exposure. As my experience of them was good I'll stick with them, and they allow me to share my design(s) making it easy for anyone to copy my design.
It feels like it's been ages! Welcome back, Ralph! It's good to see a video from you again.
Thank you so much, I'm glad you missed me!
Ralph S Bacon I just went back and saw your other video. Eye patch + seeing how strong your glasses are made me immediately wonder about a detached retina.
I’m at -8.5 or so. My mother has similarly-poor vision. About 20 years ago she had a detached retina and had to have it laser-tacked into place. I lived, and live, in constant fear of this fate.
I am so glad to see you seem to have received immediate care! No need to answer questions or the like, but know that you’re not alone and you are missed. Your presence on the Internet, and in the world, is not without notice or merit.
On a serious note, if you really are at -8.5 just just be vigilant about a sudden increase in floaters in your eye(s) - that's a sure sign that something is wrong. It's not life or death but certainly something that should be addressed immediately. Fingers crossed that nothing ever happens in your case. And thank you for your kind words, most appreciated.
Ralph S Bacon good advice there. I had until now only been vigilant against sudden “why do I have a black field in my vision?” artifacts. I am indeed at -8.50, down from -6.50 13 years ago. My last glasses (from a year ago) I had made for -8.25 as I like to make the muscles around my eyes work a bit, but yes, I was not being hyperbolic and have quite poor uncorrected vision.
Also, where are our bionic eyes? I remember growing up in the 1980s and being told this was something we would get “rather soon, surely by 2000 and along with our flying cars.”
What I like about doing pcb’s is that I know the board is in sync with the schematic. After I populate and ‘fix’ my mistakes it’s easy to see what is the original circuit and what are the parches. This assumes you start the process with the schematic editor. Layout can be relaxing, kind of zen like oil painting. Knowing when to stop is a problem common to both.
Quite so, Dan, the sync between schematic and board is fantastic. And knowing when to stop is something I now face too. Just move that one track over to the left, oh and that one up a bit...
I designed a 4 channel relay board ( Only because I have 300 or more of them ) with Easyeda and sent them off to JLPCB. They were done fast and very well also. I did thicken up the tracks on mine and after doing it all I sent the files and paid. I think 2.00 and 25.00 shipping.
After getting the PCB's ( 10 for the 27.00 ) I mounted all the parts and it works fine. The only screw-up I did was the transistor pad was 3 pin vertical ( Not Triangle Shaped ) which is hard to solder because the pads were so close together. I think the next 9 boards I do I will use Kapton tape as I solder so they don't bridge across to the next pin. I like the Idea that PCBWay lets you share boards. That to me is worth it. Thanks for all the videos you have done so far and I hope you do many more in the future. Drex / B.C. Canada.
Wow, you too have much more experience than me in the PCB design world, Drex. I don't really know why I haven't explored this avenue before. so I have something to thank PCBWay for too! I'm looking at KiCad right now but will also look at EasyEDA too. If I get good at it, or design something useful, I'll let everyone know!
The price is right - all a good learning curve for your next project. Very satisfying when you get back some boards. A bit like a whole new hobby! Will be nice to see the progress you will make in 2019
Yes, Michael, it IS like a new hobby. Something I've wanted to do for years but never quite knew how to start of how to order... now I know and am practicing using KiCAD but want to try out EasyEDA too as several have mentioned it here.
I couldn't believe how thin and close your tracks were, Ralph, but it's all about learning. I think you covered the topic very well and I watched it all. I build a lot of projects on Veroboard / IC pad board and I think I'm going to get many of them on to pcbs. The 10% commission sounded interesting but I think making the designs available to others is an excellent idea.
Have a Merry Christmas, Ralph, and all the best for the New Year.
Yes, it's been an almost vertical learning curve for me, but very rewarding all the same. And I too, want to convert a couple of my stripboard designs to PCBs. And likewise, a Merry Xmas to you too and a Happy New Year.
That was really interesting but I would like to have seen how you got to the gerber file stage as for me that would appear to be the tricky bit! I would like to try using one of these services but haven't yet plucked up the courage!
I would have loved to have shown you that but it requires a video in itself. You need to be able to draw the circuit diagram first (the schematic). The PCB is then linked to the schematic so you know you've done it right. Once I am up to speed (probably with KiCAD or EasyEDA) I'll look to do a video.
@@RalphBacon I look forward to it. I have a watched some videos on creating Gerber files but they can take a lot for granted! Schematics are not really an issue as I was an electrical engineer but software is another story!
Really like your videos Ralph. Have a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
You are too kind, Bill. And you too, A merry Xmas and Happy New year.
Nice. Will keep them in mind if I ever get to the stage of needing PCBs made.
Indeed, Lee. I hope to become more proficient and perhaps do a video on designing a simple PCB in the future. Perhaps that might encourage you (and others) to try it out.
I'm very excited about this but have a terrible head cold right now which has caused all computer activity to cease - I'm typing this with just one eye open, the other eye streaming, a box of tissues next to me and Paracetamol on standby. But soon...
Wow, that's a good price!! Should be doing this in the new year!! Cheers
Yes, do it, ifell3, once you have done it once, like me, you will see the amazing advantages over stripboard.
Thank for this video! Useful for me
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the very informative video Ralph. I ordered my first ever PCBs from PCBWay after watching this. My design was over their 100x100 mm $5 limit which put it up to $25, I still got to use my $5 first order voucher though. Also, this must have put me over some kind of import tariff threshold, hence I had pay DHL another £17 to release the delivery. Even with this, it was much cheaper than anywhere I could find in the UK.
I ordered on Saturday and they arrived on the following Friday! Amazing! As far as I can tell they boards are great quality. I didn't even make any mistakes with my design! Couldn't be happier.
Congratulations, Tom, on your error-free design. Great when it works out that way. A pity you went over the import allowance that definitely bumps up the price considerably, happened to me once with something from the States. It's the VAT that can really add up at 20%. Anyway, all's well that ends well, good luck with your construction!
£15 max for goods outside the EU
looks good
Thanks Raad, I'm hoping I will improve on my designs over the next few weeks.
Have always wanted to know about the process of steps; Thank You
Me too, Paul, that's why I did the whole ordering process. So simple! Now I am itching to get a PCB designed properly, using either KiCAD or Easy EDA.
If you're going to put your vanity label onto the board copper, then make sure that it excludes the solder mask from that copper as well. Nice and shiny. 😎
ENIG is shiny gold. [Also well worth it because it makes soldering easier.]
BTW: The check is to ensure that the board meets their manufacturing capability and the limits for which you're paying.
P.S. I've had to consider 6 layers in one board. Produced 4 layer boards.
Uebung macht den Meister, as my mother would always tell me, but I don't think I will ever get to 4-layer boards let alone 6-layer ones. Wow! I'm very impressed. I'll practice using 2-layers, that's about all my brain can map!
@@RalphBacon ; It's pretty straight-forward when you start with internal ground and power layers. That leaves only the top and bottom layers for signals.(You can flood-fill other layers once signals have been routed with ground - typically - to increase built-in capacitance.)
The 6-layer board was a design for tandem Mega2560 module with microcontrollers communicating via dual-ported RAM - on a module about 40mm by 95mm - with over 100 I/O available through 0.1"-spaced pins … because an initial design required that many pins. Costs turned out to be over AUD$100 each (min qty 5) driven largely by the costs of dual-ported RAM and because components were "loaded" on both sides.
The RAM, in case you weren't aware, can be mapped into the address space of the 2560s with (in this case) the dual-ported RAM generating an interrupt signal when either side was wrote to a particular location. Also shared was the clock; the "master" 2560 providing an output to directly connect into the slave. The slave side was to do the bulk of data capture, including initial processing of measurements to e.g. provide temperatures in predetermined locations in the dual-ported RAM. It could also provide output signals to motors and communicate via I2C to other devices, reading set-points from dual-ported RAM locations written by the master; and write back things like actual motor speeds using tachometer signals so that the master could read them directly as e.g. rpm. The objective was to allow the slave to operate in 'harder" real-time than the master which would deal with external events.
Only a subset of AVR support external memory (XMEM) in hardware. ATmega64(A) in some package forms seems to be the "smallest".
P.S. Merry Christmas from Down Under!
It all sounds very complicated, Bernd, but having power and GND as the two internal layers does make it less so, I admit.
Since you posted your previous comment I have spent many a (happy?) hour getting to grips with EasyEDA which I quite like and have developed a PCB. I then tried to develop the same PCB using KiCAD, and although I got pretty much the same result I felt I was always pushing up-hill - in comparison, EasyEDA was more intuitive.
Anyway, that enough of a spoiler of a future video! Thanks for the kind greetings and have yourself a Happy New Year (which will already have taken place at the time of writing as you're so many hours ahead of the UK!).
Hi Ralph, Possible to link to the pcb software you use? I did notice your mention of Eagle but it seems there are a couple of different ones(cadsoft and autocad), also seems a bit of a hastle to get.
The Eagle CAD software I initially used, Jeff, was the one found here:
www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/overview
May the force be with you.
However, I strongly recommend you look at EasyEDA and KiCAD both of which are free and easy to use and, whilst they can be used very well by the professional user, they also give a nod to hobbyist and small businesses hoping to make their own boards.
I'm normally not fond of promotional videos, but this one was really good and informative. I might very well even use PCBWay.
I actually stopped making pcbs because of the hassle (done on the kitchen table kind of) but if I can get quality pcbs for that price and short waiting time - I think I'd better get started on all the old projects that have been sitting around for a while now.
Thanks for a very informative video.
You are most welcome, Zeedijk Mikem glad you enjoyed it.
I thought long and hard about doing this video, but finally I thought that I "promote" items from Banggood, Aliexpress, Gearbest, Amazon... (the list goes on) in most of my videos. So I thought that if I were going to do this I would do it faithfully, as though I were a regular customer. It seems to have been accepted as such, for which I'm thankful, as there was no way I was going to just promote an item without having tried it out first! Like you, I stopped making PCBs on the kitchen table some time ago; too messy, too amateurish and too long-winded! And, of course, only single sided (usually).
The hardest part now is actually designing the PCB from a proven schematic. I used both EasyEDA and KiCAD and you'll have to wait for my report on which I prefer, but I've just received my 2nd PCB (an Arduino Uno shield for my ultrasonic dog barking project) which looks much better than the first one. I've yet to check it out, it literally arrived an hour ago. We shall see!
@@RalphBacon
I have always loved laying out pcbs. I can easily spend days design. Quite often I end up starting all over from scratch just to avoid a wire link. I have made a few double sided boards but _that's_ too much a hassle.
Have a look at my blog if you want to see a few of my boards, nothing super fancy or exciting just enjoyable projects (-:
And so I did have a quick look. Nice boards. I was particularly impressed with the pendulum clock, not just the PCB for it but the overall project. Very nice indeed. Of course, if you did use one of the Chinese PCB fabs then your boards would be even nicer, green and double sided too! :)
Very good video.
I'm trying to make a PCB for my project with a ESP32 Dev Kit board.
Could you make a video maybe using Fritzing for designing very simple PCB?
Easyeda is another web based solution but I find it a little more complicated.
I don't know why, but Fritzing is frowned upon in the Arduino forum - I think schematics (circuit diagrams) are the best way of describing a circuit - they can be directly linked to a PCB using KiCAD or EasyEDA. Once I get up to speed I will probably do a beginners' video.
Hi Ralph, and welcome back! I think we all have missed seeing you, but understand your need for rest.
I wish you would post your attiny fuse setter's gerber files somewhere that I/we could download them from. I tried to piece together photos (screen shots) and such, but I wasn't sure if I had it figured out right or not. I know I would even consider buying a board if priced right. Please leave plenty of room for different sized ziff sockets. Even if we need to add some of our own holes for extra large ziffs.
This could indeed be a candidate for my first PCB. There is a schematic posted on my Github for that video (created by a fellow Arduinite, not me) but I'll see how it goes.
@@RalphBacon I must be as blind as my wife says. I didn't find it. Please let me know if you proceed with the project.
Hmm, no you're not going blind, it has "disappeared" - but I've re-uploaded it to my GitHub for that video (#87). Remember, it was drawn by kintara58 not by me.
github.com/RalphBacon/ATTiny85_Fuse_Resetter
@@RalphBacon You are the man Ralph! Merry Christmas and happy New Year.
Hello, what circuit did you make? It looks a like a simple flashing led with a 555 timer with a 3V coin battery?
Yes, 4 years ago I was just starting my PCB making journey. A 555 timer and two 🟢🍎flashing LEDs seemed a simple enough circuit just to get something running.
Today, I make PCBs as a matter of course, having learned many lessons on the way (mainly how NOT to do things!). Experience does not come cheap!
In fact, today I am in much the same position with my 3D printer, just starting out, learning CAD along the way and generating ever-increasing complex modules. It's a rocky road but a very rewarding one.
Really good thanks for showing me this, I have a project I am planning on finishing in the new year and need to get my PCB board printed. EasyEDA recommend JLB and I haven't heard of PCBway so thanks for showing the ordering process will probably use them. Btw you need to practice more with PCB design 😂 I have finally seen something that I can do better than you. Please don't think that's a dig as I think your skill with microcontroller is way above mine. G
You speak the truth, Gordon, my design was rubbish. But it was my very first design, using the rather complicated Eagle for the first time so I can only improve, I hope! I'm currently using KiCAD but will try out EasyEDA too. I'll soon be designing 4-layer Arduino shields... 😂
@@RalphBacon yes eagle is good but you have to pay to use the good features on it, and it's very difficult for beginners. I started with PCB wizard witch is fantastic for beginners! The draw back is you can't make grber files lol as it's for home use. btw I use easyEDA because I have a Mac computer and its most compatible. Loads of people use kiCad but it's triable on Mac. If you switch and make another video try KiCad as many users have PC's.
you should look at easyeda and jlcpcb, cheaper, good quality, and also sponsors tech channels
I've been looking at easyeda and jlcpcb as well. I build many projects and was surprised to hear from Ralph that you can get 10% commission for open source pcb designs with PCBWay. Do JLCPCB have the same promotion?
I'm certainly looking at EasyEDA (along with KiCAD), Peter, but I'll stick with PCBWay now that I have a relationship with them. As I said in the video, "other PCB manufacturers are available" and each to their own. It's good that there is competition out there, keeps the prices low and quality good.
Why do they send packages for the UK trough my neighborhood (Leipzig is an hours drive away)? Does not really make sense or? Nevertheless nice video. I never created/made/ordered a PCB myself until now because often I just produce a one off and use a Perfboard. So I can finish the project the same day. Because projects that lay around sometimes never finish (as we’ve found out before).
I'm just guessing here, Michael, but cargo deliveries via Leipzig in Germany and then West Midlands Airport in the UK are probably a lot cheaper than going via the main passenger hubs. They are probably designed to take large volumes of packages rather than passengers too. As I say, though, this is a guess.
I hear you when you say that projects that lay around awaiting a PCB never get finished. True. But the design of the PCB is now part of that project, and if you are prepared to pay the DHL delivery I don't think 3 days would be long enough for me to lose interest in a project. If I used the slow China Post delivery it would be a different story, probably! I've just a few IRF7317 dual MOSFET chips delivered that I ordered back in October. Um... what was that all about again?
Ralph S Bacon Leipzig is besides Frankfurt the biggest DHL Logistic Centre in Germany. And it’s next to the Leipzig airport. So you May be right. And they are allowed to start and land all trough the night in Leipzig which is not usual on every airport in Germany. I started to make notes for which project I ordered something. So I can recap if a package on the slow boat from China arrives months later.....
Dear sir bacon, it would be really nice if you use your new, amazing pcb design superpower to create a little breakout board with the 'no Power consumption while deepsleep' circuit from one of your recent videos. So your viewers can use it for their own project :) greetings from germany
Exactly, Frank, I need a board to design that will be USEFUL so your suggestion is ausgezeichnet and I'll see what I end up with. Mit freundlichen Gruesse aus England!
I'm still trying to make a 10 led round pcb
What problems are you having doing this Bryan? Do you mean 10 standard, two-lead LEDs or addressable WS2812 (or similar) NeoPixel 4-wire LEDs?
Hi Ralph, appreciate your efforts, but the pace is very VERY slow, e.g. explaining DHL vs china post?
I'm sorry you found it too slow, JF. That particular point you mention I felt I had to emphasise as I would not part with $20 lightly and wanted to show a cheaper option. But I will take this on board and pay particular attention to my delivery speed, the feedback is appreciated, thank you.
As an alternative, you could always changes the settings of the video whilst it is playing to play at 1.25 times normal speed, something I often do even to videos where I like the presenter's voice. This makes it move along with alacrity and I can slow it down it again when it gets technical.
@@RalphBacon I've heard quite a few youtuber's say that shorter vids get more clicks. So prob something worth considering also. I don't know how true that is though. I've done audiobooks at faster speed. So maybe its just me! :-)
I like the pace as is because I am not 20 anymore so I can follow without my brain hurting 🤓