Hi 77 year old retired engineer, part time DIY’er, they say you learn something new every day, this was my daily bit of learning. Thanks and greetings from the UK (England).
Why is it that only engineers feel compelled to tell everyone that they are an engineer? Maybe doctors too. There's probably plumbers, managers, technical writers, etc in the comments below. The only other person that mentioned his career is the cabinet maker. That info is germaine to the topic.
@@1QKGLH I'm a priest and I like this video. God Bless You, My Son. Pax Vobiscum. (I'm really nothing.) An unemployed former friend of mine became an ordained minister. Why? I'm sure I have no clue. He uses these screws all the time.
Hi, 72 year old professional woodworker here. Been using these screws for over 30 plus years. They are the best for any composition wood material like MDF or Particle Board. They were designed specifically for these materials with their large diameter bore and wide and coarse thread design. Readily available from Hafele Corporation out of Carey, NC. Hafele also provide a jig assembly for attaching to a Mikita drill ( or at least the use to) as well as a multistep drill bit for boring. The jig assemble assist in keeping your drill bit at a 90 degree angle and also sets depth of cut.
I’m a cabinet maker in Detroit. I’ve been use confirmat screws for 20 years! I use a construction/line boarding machine to line up the holes for the cabinet construction in plywood. All my cabinets are made of plywood, although I have use these in melamine boxes before. Far superior to any fastening system or dowels on the market currently I can see no limitations.
@@MadLadsAnonymous so the hand drill bit is a two part construction. I like the Amana Tool 55103. The outer bit is carbide (7mm) and then there is a bit through the center (5mm). On my construction/line boring machine I use a 7mm for the sides and the a 5mm for cross member the screw it self has nib built in so there’s no need for counter sinks.
I never knew these strange screws had a name. I've often used them because they come with Ikea flatpack furniture, which goes together with really precise, very tight joints. The factory drills all the holes in precisely the right position, and you just put the screws they provide into the holes and tighten them up. I'm always impressed by them. I totally admit that your average finished piece of flatpack furniture (a wardrobe or the like) is very plain, not aesthetic, but if you need a wardrobe and can't afford several hundred pounds or over a thousand pounds, flatpacks do the job and are affordable. (And being flatpack, you can get them through a narrow front door, whereas a lot of pre-assembled furniture would not easily go through. But you DO need a fairly large floorspace to assemble them, because you have to assemble flat on the floor. That may mean you have to push your bed onto its side against the wall to create space on your bedroom floor.) I am amazed that the makers produce their products so accurately. It must be because they make them by the hundred thousand if not by the million, and they've got them off to a fine art in the factory. The precision of the joints is remarkable, considering they are designed to be put together by the merest amateurs at woodwork, like myself.
I agree. It’s not heirloom quality stuff but if you assemble it well it lasts a long time for the price. Even as a furniture/cabinet maker I have IKEA stuff in my house.
A good way to strengthen these or any other screws into wood connection, is to use a needle injector to squirt a small amount of glue (urethane, yellow, whatever) deep into the hole before putting in the screw. Drilling as well as the act of screwing the screw into the wood, shreds, cuts, and splits the wood fibers. That small amount of adhesive, glues those fibers back together, actually making them stronger than the original wood. I first used this method while repairing old doors where the screws would no longer hold the hinges tight.
What a great demo of how to use confirmat screws in a normal bench setup, with basic tools. I need to build a non standard size kitchen cabinet, so will defo use this method. Thanks 😊
In every case the main failure is where the fasteners are in the edge of laminated stock. Used some free distressed IKEA style cabinets for shop bench bases. Numerous times I had to put real wood blocks in panel intersections and add screws from both sides. Sheet goods aren’t good at holding an ordinary screw in the edge. Particle board stock isn’t good at screw holding in the face either.
I’m a full time cabinetmaker at a custom shop. Confirmat screws work really well in particle board and mdf. They tend to delaminate the veneer layers in cabinet grade plywood. They also telegraph. Run your hand over the surface above the confirmat screws and you’ll feel the bumps they create. Or look at the surface of the ply with raking light. I use the 5, 7, 10 mm full carbide counter sink drill bit
I’ve been saving these screws from old flat pack furniture for years, thinking they’ll come in useful at some point. Now I know how to drill the holes correctly ! Thanks.
I'd be intrigued to see how they would have held up on solid wood, given that in both tests it was the material that gave way. Even dowels and glue won't help if the material itself breaks rather than the joint. I imagine it would be rare for someone to use these screws on a solid wood project, but it would still be interesting to see how well they would do.
Clicked on this video curious as to what Confirmat screws are. Not sure if this is actually correct, but working in my uncle's shop and later assembling furniture at home I learned that these are called Euroscrews (well, that the word for ford translation anyway). Used with MDF or particle boards, but have seen them used for other materials too. And always used together with dowels, almost in a 1-to-1 relationship. If two confirmat screws are used to join two faces of a cabinet, there will be for sure a minimum of two dowels also, placed ~50mm (~2inches) next to the screws. As far as assembling furniture myself, experience showed me not to trust the clutch settings on my cordless drill, and always tighten them by hand, especially with lower quality (aka cheapest furniture pieces) particle boards. Or better said, drive them with clutch set to a lower torque than needed and then drive it flush with the surface by hand, so you can feel id the particle board you are screwing into starts to give...
Thank you for the video, I’ve got a large jar full of these screws which I took off kitchen cabinets many years ago before I discarded the carcasses. Never used them because I didn’t know what drill bits to use, now I know 👍
It's a little less accurate but you can do the same thing with multiple bits. The one shot bit and countersink is definitely the better way to go if you have to install a lot of these screws.
Very interesting! Never heard of those screws before now & wonder what the price difference is between confirmat & regular screws are? Thanks for the demo! 👍👍
Cool demo~! I've seen these screws for years in DIY melamine furniture. Definitely a beefy fastener, but never really thought about trying them in something other than melamine. Interesting idea...Thanks for sharing~!
I'm getting ready to build some built in shelves. Making them out of 1x8 pine. Would it be good to use these in the pine instead of wood screws? I like the strength these would give.
They are great screws and I’ve used them in quite a few cabinets that I’ve built. I don’t have doweling machine but I think that where these would really shine. At least for me, the Domino/Biscuit, staple, screw method is just as fast. I’ve also been using Wurth Assembly screws (Assy Screws) in chip board with great results.
Thank you for this video .And your recommendation of this screws . I will be using them shortly on a project .As always very informative video .Thanks Jeff
Always good to learn something new. I will reference this video when using melamine next. Pretty sure I have those same Dubuque clamps as well - the best I've ever used.
I moved to using these for woodchip board construction (particleboard) a few years ago as I figured if Ikea were using them for all thier woodchip construction, there must be a good reason - turns out I was right, they are MUCH better than normal screws in woodchip. Coarser and wider threads have much better grip than normal screws.
I've used these in plywood and chip board and they seem ok. I also tried to use them in MDF and the MDF bulged and split as I tried to drive them in so foe MDF I'd say not so good unless you want to mess around with the pilot drill size but then you'll lose the strength.
It's not melamine, it's particle board. Or chipboard. Or Barton wood. And if you're assembling flat pack furniture or you're drilling and building it yourself, just be darn sure you don't over torque, because it's ridiculously easy to strip out the weak glued sawdust that those threads are biting into. If that happens, put glue on a matchstick or two, shove them in the hole, and refasten. Once assembled and properly reinforced with cross members or backing boards, it's pretty strong. But without cross bracing or backboard reinforcement, this stuff just folds right over if you push on it. Source: Spent time assembling samples for major box stores.
Great video as usual. Can these also be used for MDF? For novice woodworker building cabinets what's the best combination of wood and fastener? I know you spoke about the different woods before but what are the best fasteners for those woods? Sorry for the long winded question....😁🤘🤘🤘
I wonder how well that would work in some premium Baltic birch or Medite MDF? I put together a bunch of flat pack book cases and saved all the extra Confirmats, they come in two sizes 5mm and 7mm. For a home shop, the bit is the killer, $30+. And when I demo cabinets for my friends I always keep the Confirmat screws, and other odd hardware.
@@mikeking7470 They work just fine. Again, the design of these screws is to overcome the inherent weakness in particle board as well as MDF…… but I have used them in plywood for years.
We used these screws when I was a apprentice, you basically have a 12 ga screw with a 8 ga head . Because particle board is so much like weetbix the course thread and more surface area results in more holding force . If my boss saw me screwing that close to the edge like you did I would be in trouble 😂
Good video ... straightforward. You said wood screw then construction screw. Did it have angular smooth portion near top ... as does traditional wood screw. You should show it. Also, a bit more close up shot on the confirmant
How do you like your wide belt sander? if toy had the chance to do it over again; would you buy the same one? I am in the market for one or a drum sander.
It’s great for the size and price. Given the size of our old shop we couldn’t go any bigger. It’s still a huge time saver even though I could fit something much bigger now.
Used these in 1985 in a cabinet shop. The only difference was the screw and drill bit had a taper to it. Had to make sure the bit was lined up and in the center of the board. But they work really good.
Local furniture makers would use 2 confirmats and two wooden dowels (with or without PVA). If I don't mind costs, would 4 confirmats be better or worse long term?
It's a screw for particle board or press-wood (both euphemisms for "crap"). It's not for "melamine". That stuff is a coal industry by-product used, in this case, for veneer. Particle board screw.
@@TodaysCraftsmen Well, same here. In the 90s, Melamine referred exclusively to veneer you would usually buy in 4x8 sheets. Basically for counter top. Then stuff came per-venerrd, and was called "melamine". Problem is, it was now particle board covered with a thin, chippable skin. Kind of "bait and switch" over time. My thing with screws is, they're designed for a specitic material, so I call it by that. But, I totally get you, people hear Melamine and think particle board. Peace.
I thought Melamine was the plastic film glued to a substrate to give a timber or clean white surface to it. The substrate is often MDF or Medium Density Fibreboard. If I went to ask my local merchant for "Melamine" he would sell me a roll of plastic. I speak fluent Ikea and have seen these screws in their flatpacks and wondered about using them for my own joinery. Apart from a terminology glitch, I enjoyed to video..
I think they're better in low density fibreboard (chipboard) as they have a greater surface area, see them used in conjunction with dowels on flat pack furniture. They definitely have a place and that drill bit saves a lot of time and you know you're not going to split anything.
Have seen a lot of these in all sorts of flat-pack furniture, both melamine/laminate and solid wood. I don't think I've ever seen a pozidrive confirmat screw though - they've all been hex...
Just a little tip when it comes to screws in plywood, and this goes for endgrain too: try not to position your screws where it is going into endgrain, or the ends of plywood. Screws are much stronger going into sidegrain where the threads can work between the fibers. In endgain the threads tend to shear the fibers and will pull out. In plywood edges, the force of the screw wedging into the laminated layers puts stress on the glue, which generally makes the lamination fail. This is shown in the test where the confirmat screws pulled out. (besides not being a fair comparison just from the difference of the gauge of the fasteners, no surprise the #8's broke) While I am not a fan of pocket holes, in some cases, such as corners with end grain, you can use the pocket screw to Exit the endgrain. This puts the head of the screw inside the endgrain with relatively undisturbed fibers and the threads into sidegrain. It is also important to have the direction of the pocket pointed away from the end of a board so you don' split it. Unfortunately, this places some pocket holes in more visible locations which could require plugging. Sometimes you can make your pocket hole a little shallower to maximize the strength of a corner, just remember to go back and predrill the clearance for the shank of the screw so it doesn't split the wood.
I think the screw location is pretty arbitrary in cabinet construction. But from experience I can tell you a 2” screw through the side and into the endgrain is FAR more strong than a 1-1/4” pocket screw from the endgrain into the side.
It's worth noting that the initial strength of the first joint is important for people who don't have a good workspace with clamps. When assembling an Ikea piece of furniture on the floor of their apartment, that first joint may get stressed by the novice assembler.
2:37 They look like some kind on hanger contraption for your toolbelt when you are up a ladder etc... awkward-looking things that look like they really interfere with the grip of the tool... 🤔 😎👍☘️🍻
Screws are hardened to allow them to be driven in without bending, while the confirmat screws are large enough that having them be normal cold rolled steel, which does harden the edges of the threads, and the head as it is punched in during manufacture, is enough to have them strong enough to survive entry, and still be able to bend. That the plywood broke says the screws are stronger than the wood, which is all that is needed. Not actually melamine board, though I would say that is a local thing, as those are plastic faced composite wood boards, basically chipboard with a top and bottom plastic or paper covering for cabinet work. Locally called shitboard, because they both will disintegrate when exposed to humid weather, and also the modern ones are made with poor glue, while the board from the 1970's was made with formaldehyde resin, so it is both water resistant, and also non edible by insects, unlike the modern ones.
Good info on the screws. You seem mid-informed on TFL, though. Although we refer to this product as melamine it’s actually called Thermally Fused Laminate. Good quality TFL like Egger or Tafisa is way more water resistant than you’d expect and is incredibly durable. There’s a reason that the majority of commercial millwork is made with TFL and it’s not just because of the price point.
Melamine is a plastic. Sometimes used as a veneer like Formica. What you have there is melamine finished chipboard(?) not melamine. Melamine got famous in the '60s for making unbreakable dinnerware before Corelle hit the market.
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Hi 77 year old retired engineer, part time DIY’er, they say you learn something new every day, this was my daily bit of learning. Thanks and greetings from the UK (England).
Why is it that only engineers feel compelled to tell everyone that they are an engineer? Maybe doctors too.
There's probably plumbers, managers, technical writers, etc in the comments below. The only other person that mentioned his career is the cabinet maker. That info is germaine to the topic.
Glad we could teach an old dog a new trick! 🙏🏼
Cabinet maker here 😉 👍🏼
@@1QKGLH I'm a priest and I like this video. God Bless You, My Son. Pax Vobiscum. (I'm really nothing.) An unemployed former friend of mine became an ordained minister. Why?
I'm sure I have no clue. He uses these screws all the time.
@@1QKGLHDo you also take issue with the gentleman referencing his age
Hi, 72 year old professional woodworker here. Been using these screws for over 30 plus years. They are the best for any composition wood material like MDF or Particle Board.
They were designed specifically for these materials with their large diameter bore and wide and coarse thread design. Readily available from Hafele Corporation out of Carey, NC.
Hafele also provide a jig assembly for attaching to a Mikita drill ( or at least the use to) as well as a multistep drill bit for boring. The jig assemble assist in keeping your drill bit at a 90 degree angle and also sets depth of cut.
Thanks for watching! We get ours from Hafele 💪🏼
With my experience of 127 years of wood working, I never knew what those screws were and i can finally sleep easy now. Thank you
you are one old dude.
Time for a long nap after 127 years
😂😂😂
127 years??? SEE I ALWAYS SAID " YOU DARN KIDS DON'T KNOW ANYTHING...LOL
Get off my lawn!
I’m a cabinet maker in Detroit. I’ve been use confirmat screws for 20 years! I use a construction/line boarding machine to line up the holes for the cabinet construction in plywood. All my cabinets are made of plywood, although I have use these in melamine boxes before. Far superior to any fastening system or dowels on the market currently I can see no limitations.
Does the same advice apply for pilot holes? e.g. bit diameter roughly equal to inner diameter of the confirmat screw?
@@MadLadsAnonymous so the hand drill bit is a two part construction. I like the Amana Tool 55103. The outer bit is carbide (7mm) and then there is a bit through the center (5mm). On my construction/line boring machine I use a 7mm for the sides and the a 5mm for cross member the screw it self has nib built in so there’s no need for counter sinks.
Nice! I use my Gannomat Optima 25!
I agree
I never knew these strange screws had a name. I've often used them because they come with Ikea flatpack furniture, which goes together with really precise, very tight joints. The factory drills all the holes in precisely the right position, and you just put the screws they provide into the holes and tighten them up. I'm always impressed by them.
I totally admit that your average finished piece of flatpack furniture (a wardrobe or the like) is very plain, not aesthetic, but if you need a wardrobe and can't afford several hundred pounds or over a thousand pounds, flatpacks do the job and are affordable. (And being flatpack, you can get them through a narrow front door, whereas a lot of pre-assembled furniture would not easily go through. But you DO need a fairly large floorspace to assemble them, because you have to assemble flat on the floor. That may mean you have to push your bed onto its side against the wall to create space on your bedroom floor.)
I am amazed that the makers produce their products so accurately. It must be because they make them by the hundred thousand if not by the million, and they've got them off to a fine art in the factory. The precision of the joints is remarkable, considering they are designed to be put together by the merest amateurs at woodwork, like myself.
I agree. It’s not heirloom quality stuff but if you assemble it well it lasts a long time for the price. Even as a furniture/cabinet maker I have IKEA stuff in my house.
A good way to strengthen these or any other screws into wood connection, is to use a needle injector to squirt a small amount of glue (urethane, yellow, whatever) deep into the hole before putting in the screw. Drilling as well as the act of screwing the screw into the wood, shreds, cuts, and splits the wood fibers. That small amount of adhesive, glues those fibers back together, actually making them stronger than the original wood. I first used this method while repairing old doors where the screws would no longer hold the hinges tight.
Makes sense! 👍🏼
What a great demo of how to use confirmat screws in a normal bench setup, with basic tools. I need to build a non standard size kitchen cabinet, so will defo use this method. Thanks 😊
🙏🏼 Thanks for watching!
have seen these the first time while assembling IKEA furniture, about 25years ago. Good video anycase 😎 greetz from germany
Thanks for watching!
FYI. Melamine is the plastic laminated to the particle board.
Yes, you’re correct. In the US the board as a whole is colloquially known as melamine.
In every case the main failure is where the fasteners are in the edge of laminated stock. Used some free distressed IKEA style cabinets for shop bench bases. Numerous times I had to put real wood blocks in panel intersections and add screws from both sides. Sheet goods aren’t good at holding an ordinary screw in the edge. Particle board stock isn’t good at screw holding in the face either.
Yes but in a normal static state once installed they’re plenty strong enough.
OK, thanks for the explaination.
Anytime. 🙌🏼
Using the posi-drive #3 bit made me happy. I don’t even have one, but the right bit feels great. Thanks :)
100% thanks for watching!
I’m a full time cabinetmaker at a custom shop. Confirmat screws work really well in particle board and mdf. They tend to delaminate the veneer layers in cabinet grade plywood. They also telegraph. Run your hand over the surface above the confirmat screws and you’ll feel the bumps they create. Or look at the surface of the ply with raking light. I use the 5, 7, 10 mm full carbide counter sink drill bit
I’ll check that out, thanks!
as old as i am i can still learn new stuff, thanks....i will buy a bit and screws, you never know when a use will come up...thanks again
Awesome! Thanks for tuning in!
I’ve been saving these screws from old flat pack furniture for years, thinking they’ll come in useful at some point. Now I know how to drill the holes correctly ! Thanks.
No problem! Grab that drill bit and you’re in business.
the team I work with uses Confirmat all the time, maple pre ply....cnc drilled, mad strong and square, thanks for your videos! -installer-esjay
Awesome! Thanks for watching.
I put together a very large cabinet and used these screws they worked very well
Awesome! 🙌🏼
I'd be intrigued to see how they would have held up on solid wood, given that in both tests it was the material that gave way. Even dowels and glue won't help if the material itself breaks rather than the joint. I imagine it would be rare for someone to use these screws on a solid wood project, but it would still be interesting to see how well they would do.
I think it would be very strong. Especially with a dab of glue.
Clicked on this video curious as to what Confirmat screws are. Not sure if this is actually correct, but working in my uncle's shop and later assembling furniture at home I learned that these are called Euroscrews (well, that the word for ford translation anyway). Used with MDF or particle boards, but have seen them used for other materials too. And always used together with dowels, almost in a 1-to-1 relationship. If two confirmat screws are used to join two faces of a cabinet, there will be for sure a minimum of two dowels also, placed ~50mm (~2inches) next to the screws.
As far as assembling furniture myself, experience showed me not to trust the clutch settings on my cordless drill, and always tighten them by hand, especially with lower quality (aka cheapest furniture pieces) particle boards. Or better said, drive them with clutch set to a lower torque than needed and then drive it flush with the surface by hand, so you can feel id the particle board you are screwing into starts to give...
We call the small 5mmx13mm euro screws
They are very popular in Romania between finerboard/ mdf cabinet makers.
Very cool!
I kept splitting MDF and was trying to see how to prevent it and ran into these. They make a BIG difference and aren't expensive.
Awesome! Always great finding a solution.
Thank you for the video, I’ve got a large jar full of these screws which I took off kitchen cabinets many years ago before I discarded the carcasses. Never used them because I didn’t know what drill bits to use, now I know 👍
Now you can try em out!
It's a little less accurate but you can do the same thing with multiple bits. The one shot bit and countersink is definitely the better way to go if you have to install a lot of these screws.
Yeah totally worth the $20
The comparison to dowels is spot on! Confirmat screws provide that extra stability we all crave when building cabinets.
They’re definitely overlooked by many.
Great comparison there, Jeff! I’ll have to give them a try.
Have a great weekend!
Awesome! Let us know how you make out.
Great video. I have used these before on MDF. They work great.
Thank you! Yes they do!
Great video Very Informative. You guys are always dropping gems
We appreciate it!
Shank you very much for showing us.
😂😂😂
Shank you too... ;-)
😂
First thought after seeing the screw was “Ikea” and the five millimeter allen wrench. 😂
💀💀💀
They gotta do *something* right to be valued at 21billion smackaroos. :)
Same though here. (Romania, Europe) I use these screws, here the head is allen 5, no other option, lenghts are 50 and 70mm. Only for particle board.
All I thought of, were room temperature meatballs 🍔
😂😂😂
Very interesting! Never heard of those screws before now & wonder what the price difference is between confirmat & regular screws are? Thanks for the demo! 👍👍
Thanks, Steve! I don’t know off the top of my head but they are definitely more.
Cool demo~! I've seen these screws for years in DIY melamine furniture. Definitely a beefy fastener, but never really thought about trying them in something other than melamine. Interesting idea...Thanks for sharing~!
Thanks for tuning in!
I'm getting ready to build some built in shelves. Making them out of 1x8 pine. Would it be good to use these in the pine instead of wood screws? I like the strength these would give.
Where will you be using the screws in the construction?
Yes they were designed for chipboard, they've been around for 40 years!!
Yup! Good stuff.
And IKEA have been using them for 40 years…
👍🏼
very helpful info. I've been wanting to know this for years, thanks!
Awesome! Thanks!
They are great screws and I’ve used them in quite a few cabinets that I’ve built. I don’t have doweling machine but I think that where these would really shine. At least for me, the Domino/Biscuit, staple, screw method is just as fast. I’ve also been using Wurth Assembly screws (Assy Screws) in chip board with great results.
They’re definitely under appreciated.
Interesting, Jeff. I'll have to try them on a project.
Bill
Thanks, Bill!
Thanks for the test Jeff, I’ll be trying some of these out
Awesome, thanks!
Thank you for this video .And your recommendation of this screws . I will be using them shortly on a project .As always very informative video .Thanks Jeff
Thanks, Rob! Always happy to help.
Thanks for an excellent video .
Glad you liked it!
Really useful for mold boxes too. Glad I found your channel (tinkerer and wannabe inventor)
Thanks for watching!
Always good to learn something new. I will reference this video when using melamine next. Pretty sure I have those same Dubuque clamps as well - the best I've ever used.
Awesome. Dubuque is THE BEST!
i misread that as confirmation screws, thats the one that gets you married !
Lmfao
Fascinating,thank you from England.
Thanks for watching!
Nice video team, learnt a lot. Good for heavier load builds I think
Thanks for watching!
I moved to using these for woodchip board construction (particleboard) a few years ago as I figured if Ikea were using them for all thier woodchip construction, there must be a good reason - turns out I was right, they are MUCH better than normal screws in woodchip. Coarser and wider threads have much better grip than normal screws.
Yes you’re absolutely right.
I've used these in plywood and chip board and they seem ok. I also tried to use them in MDF and the MDF bulged and split as I tried to drive them in so foe MDF I'd say not so good unless you want to mess around with the pilot drill size but then you'll lose the strength.
I bet it would work better in HDF. It’s much more dense!
It's not melamine, it's particle board. Or chipboard. Or Barton wood. And if you're assembling flat pack furniture or you're drilling and building it yourself, just be darn sure you don't over torque, because it's ridiculously easy to strip out the weak glued sawdust that those threads are biting into. If that happens, put glue on a matchstick or two, shove them in the hole, and refasten.
Once assembled and properly reinforced with cross members or backing boards, it's pretty strong. But without cross bracing or backboard reinforcement, this stuff just folds right over if you push on it.
Source: Spent time assembling samples for major box stores.
In the US a particleboard core with TFL faces is colloquially known as melamine.
Your channel is better than many 'big' woodworking channels! Subbed.
Much appreciated! Help us out and tell a friend 👍🏼
Great video as usual. Can these also be used for MDF? For novice woodworker building cabinets what's the best combination of wood and fastener? I know you spoke about the different woods before but what are the best fasteners for those woods?
Sorry for the long winded question....😁🤘🤘🤘
Thanks! From the comments it sounds like they can be used in MDF although I haven’t myself!
Thanks guys. Helpful demonstration. Definitely going to try
Whatcha got zip-tied to the drill handle?
Thanks! It’s a Spyder tool holster mount.
I wonder how well that would work in some premium Baltic birch or Medite MDF? I put together a bunch of flat pack book cases and saved all the extra Confirmats, they come in two sizes 5mm and 7mm. For a home shop, the bit is the killer, $30+. And when I demo cabinets for my friends I always keep the Confirmat screws, and other odd hardware.
I bet it would work great!
@@mikeking7470
They work just fine. Again, the design of these screws is to overcome the inherent weakness in particle board as well as MDF…… but I have used them in plywood for years.
Nice
Someone should send these to Matthias Wandel to test in his joint testing machine.
I would be honored!
I also double as a 'joint' testing machine. According to my lady...
😂😂😂
We used these screws when I was a apprentice, you basically have a 12 ga screw with a 8 ga head . Because particle board is so much like weetbix the course thread and more surface area results in more holding force . If my boss saw me screwing that close to the edge like you did I would be in trouble 😂
Yeah, my clamp was in the way 😝
Good video ... straightforward. You said wood screw then construction screw. Did it have angular smooth portion near top ... as does traditional wood screw. You should show it. Also, a bit more close up shot on the confirmant
These are type 17 cabinet construction screws from Fasco Fasteners.
Here in the UK, we would call that Melamine faced chipboard. The plastic Melamine facing is not very thick, compared to the chipboard core.
Yup. In the US we refer to the entire board as melamine. Not correct but almost universal.
How do you like your wide belt sander? if toy had the chance to do it over again; would you buy the same one? I am in the market for one or a drum sander.
It’s great for the size and price. Given the size of our old shop we couldn’t go any bigger. It’s still a huge time saver even though I could fit something much bigger now.
You also can get these screws with a sunk hexagon instad of the X in the head.
Yup!
Thanks for introducing me to a fastener about which I was completely unaware.
Glad to help! Thanks for watching.
Try using construction grade zinc . Same thing, less cost.
Construction grade zinc what?
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing
Thanks, Jim!
Very informative - Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Used these in 1985 in a cabinet shop. The only difference was the screw and drill bit had a taper to it. Had to make sure the bit was lined up and in the center of the board. But they work really good.
Nice! 🙌🏼
Thank you very much!
You're welcome!
Local furniture makers would use 2 confirmats and two wooden dowels (with or without PVA). If I don't mind costs, would 4 confirmats be better or worse long term?
Good question! Worth testing out.
I found that drilling first with a standard 5mm bit then finishing with the stepped bit is much easier....
Definitely. We use a 25 spindle boring machine to do these so no drilling necessary 🤓
great for any chipboard but you can use them on almost anything good strong fix, i used them on recycled plastic post to fix to tree very strong fix
Nice! I’ll have to try them elsewhere.
Never knew what they were called. Thanks. Aren't those 12V Max drills awesome?
Thanks for watching! Love my Bosch 12v
It feels like they were designed for composite, or end-grain.
Make me feel more confident when building flat-pack
Def made for engineered material.
Thanks for the informative video
Glad it was helpful!
This was the first of your videos that I've seen, but it won't be the last. I've subscribed. (Also being named Jeff didn't hurt. ;-) )
Awesome! Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
The confirmat screws are great if you have to break down any furniture to get into a house
100% right!
It's a screw for particle board or press-wood (both euphemisms for "crap"). It's not for "melamine". That stuff is a coal industry by-product used, in this case, for veneer. Particle board screw.
Did you know that people have different names for things in different places? In the US this product is almost exclusively referred to as melamine.
@@TodaysCraftsmen Well, same here. In the 90s, Melamine referred exclusively to veneer you would usually buy in 4x8 sheets. Basically for counter top. Then stuff came per-venerrd, and was called "melamine". Problem is, it was now particle board covered with a thin, chippable skin. Kind of "bait and switch" over time. My thing with screws is, they're designed for a specitic material, so I call it by that. But, I totally get you, people hear Melamine and think particle board. Peace.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Surprised you just discovered, in europe it is used for long time, I used first time in my diy cabinets about 25 years ago..
I didn’t just discover them…
Remember: the first three letters of "assume."
😂😂😂
I thought Melamine was the plastic film glued to a substrate to give a timber or clean white surface to it. The substrate is often MDF or Medium Density Fibreboard. If I went to ask my local merchant for "Melamine" he would sell me a roll of plastic. I speak fluent Ikea and have seen these screws in their flatpacks and wondered about using them for my own joinery. Apart from a terminology glitch, I enjoyed to video..
In the USA we refer to TFL (thermally fused laminate) as melamine.
Shear resistance is the biggest issue when it comes to using screws in construction. I wonder how well Confirmat screws would do compared to nails?
Good question. The issue would be how do you get a decent size nail into plywood? Predrill and hand nail?
I think they're better in low density fibreboard (chipboard) as they have a greater surface area, see them used in conjunction with dowels on flat pack furniture. They definitely have a place and that drill bit saves a lot of time and you know you're not going to split anything.
For sure!
Would you use a confirmat screw in a cabinet if you were already using dowels. The cabinet's exterior box will be visible on both sides.
If we had finished ends we would use dowels with pocket screws or Lamello Clamex, etc.
Nice video. Would be interesting to see what actual load would break them, rather than blows with a hammer.
Thanks! I can imagine it takes a lot
How do these compare to pocket hole screws fro this application?
Good question.
Hi professional slacker here. I use deck screws because that's what I already have.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
at least you own it :) lol
💯
Thanks for sharing the video but I think it would have been a better comparison to use #10 or #12 screws instead of those puny #8s.
Yeah but no one assembles cabinets with #10 or #12
@@TodaysCraftsmen Then why do they seel M5 and M7 confirmat screws? Do you know the comparable size?
Regardless of the size of the Confirmat screws no one uses 10’s or 12’s for cabinet construction.
By the way what was the price difference between the two?? It would also be a special order item around here as no one carries a line of them.
I’m not positive! We buy from Hafele.
How do they compare to Pocket hole screws though?
I’d wager they’re stronger.
Thanks, learn something new here
Thanks for tuning in!
Where do you get those long Pozidriv bits?
That one is out of my Vessel screwdriver.
Have seen a lot of these in all sorts of flat-pack furniture, both melamine/laminate and solid wood. I don't think I've ever seen a pozidrive confirmat screw though - they've all been hex...
Definitely! They come in a few different drive styles.
Great info. Where do you get these screws? Probably a distributor? What brand do you recommend?
Thanks! We buy ours from Hafele.
Just a little tip when it comes to screws in plywood, and this goes for endgrain too: try not to position your screws where it is going into endgrain, or the ends of plywood. Screws are much stronger going into sidegrain where the threads can work between the fibers. In endgain the threads tend to shear the fibers and will pull out. In plywood edges, the force of the screw wedging into the laminated layers puts stress on the glue, which generally makes the lamination fail. This is shown in the test where the confirmat screws pulled out. (besides not being a fair comparison just from the difference of the gauge of the fasteners, no surprise the #8's broke) While I am not a fan of pocket holes, in some cases, such as corners with end grain, you can use the pocket screw to Exit the endgrain. This puts the head of the screw inside the endgrain with relatively undisturbed fibers and the threads into sidegrain. It is also important to have the direction of the pocket pointed away from the end of a board so you don' split it. Unfortunately, this places some pocket holes in more visible locations which could require plugging. Sometimes you can make your pocket hole a little shallower to maximize the strength of a corner, just remember to go back and predrill the clearance for the shank of the screw so it doesn't split the wood.
I think the screw location is pretty arbitrary in cabinet construction. But from experience I can tell you a 2” screw through the side and into the endgrain is FAR more strong than a 1-1/4” pocket screw from the endgrain into the side.
I always build my boxes out of plywood but I may have to give these a shot!
Worth a try! They’re a quite strong “screw”
It's worth noting that the initial strength of the first joint is important for people who don't have a good workspace with clamps. When assembling an Ikea piece of furniture on the floor of their apartment, that first joint may get stressed by the novice assembler.
Thanks, sounds good advice.
Oh 100%
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What do you have ziptied to your drills?
2:37 They look like some kind on hanger contraption for your toolbelt when you are up a ladder etc... awkward-looking things that look like they really interfere with the grip of the tool... 🤔
😎👍☘️🍻
It’s a Spyder tool holster mount.
Correct but I hang it from a tool cart. Hasn’t gotten in my way yet!
Hi, thanks.
Thanks for watching.
I use them in plywood for cabinet boxes.
Nice! Looks like I do now too!
These are a great screw, but when did you last see a cabinet break apart after any type of assembly method?
Basically never! That’s why we’re confident with butt-joint construction. We do qualified tenon when CNc cut.
nice video , but the plywood test was a bit unfair , you should have used 2" fourteens as well , you wouldnt break them so easily :-)
Very true.
These are popular in Europe, we call them Euro screws :)
We call the little 5mmx13mm ones euro screws!
Huh, never knew they had that name. When I worked at a cabinetmaker's I was just told they were "Euro" screws.
We call the little guys euro screws. 5mmx13mm
Great to see an American using metric
Only when I have to 😝
The Stupid System 🤮
Which?
Screws are hardened to allow them to be driven in without bending, while the confirmat screws are large enough that having them be normal cold rolled steel, which does harden the edges of the threads, and the head as it is punched in during manufacture, is enough to have them strong enough to survive entry, and still be able to bend. That the plywood broke says the screws are stronger than the wood, which is all that is needed. Not actually melamine board, though I would say that is a local thing, as those are plastic faced composite wood boards, basically chipboard with a top and bottom plastic or paper covering for cabinet work. Locally called shitboard, because they both will disintegrate when exposed to humid weather, and also the modern ones are made with poor glue, while the board from the 1970's was made with formaldehyde resin, so it is both water resistant, and also non edible by insects, unlike the modern ones.
Good info on the screws. You seem mid-informed on TFL, though. Although we refer to this product as melamine it’s actually called Thermally Fused Laminate. Good quality TFL like Egger or Tafisa is way more water resistant than you’d expect and is incredibly durable. There’s a reason that the majority of commercial millwork is made with TFL and it’s not just because of the price point.
Melomien....... that’s the coating on the chipboard that gives it the wood effect pattern.......
Yes. In the US a particleboard core with TFL faces is colloquially known as melamine.
Never heard of that screw before this, thanks! Why the strange name?
I’m not sure!
Nice video, thanks :)
Glad you liked it!
Melamine is a plastic. Sometimes used as a veneer like Formica. What you have there is melamine finished chipboard(?) not melamine.
Melamine got famous in the '60s for making unbreakable dinnerware before Corelle hit the market.
Yes, I understand that. In the US the board as a whole is colloquially known as melamine.