That was great! For what it's worth, I trout spey on the Delaware year round, and 100% agree that while rainbows like a straight swing, browns definitely respond better to moving the fly during the swing or just stripping it entirely (depending on water speed and time of year). Been proven to me year after year. During the coldest months, browns are more receptive a straight swing, but otherwise, moving the fly works best. One other advantage of the spey is that we can wade fish when the water's blown out and you can barely get two feet off the bank. Some of my best days with the spey rod have been when the water is 5-8K and dirty!
This was great. Answered a lot of questions about Browns v Rainbows, swinging Galloup style streamers, basically everything you talked about covered tons of info I was curious about. The Slide inn Podcast is my favorite of all the fishing podcasts, as well as the other content you create; you don't hold info back. I'm curious what spey rods you all Montana guys use for trout and steelhead.
Love that you guys touch on swinging. Definitely not the most effective way to fish, especially for browns , but there is something about casting, shooting 50’ of running line and getting a tug on a traditional click pawl that gets me going. Just love waking the whole river up with a hardy Ziiiiiinnnngggg!
I'm headed out to Montana this Summer and am really excited so many locals have gotten into the trout spey thing. Here in NC/VA I have literally never seen another person fishing a two-hander in the 3 or 4 years I've been at it. We may be known for our little creeks and Appalachian strain Brookies, but we also have a lot of larger tailwaters here in the South East - one I know for a fact that Kelly has fished because I watched the video ;) I think it's neat how so many of the things Braeden talked about I have also discovered on my own here in the East. That's part of the fun factor for me - discovering things for myself. There isn't a lot of information on actually fishing a trout spey rod so it's all about figuring out what works and putting the time in. Something I was hoping you'd bring up is how effective wet flies are for catching Brown trout on a spey rod. My home water is a Brown trout fishery and when the caddis are active you can get some violent tugs and catch tons of fish. I actually had to start tying all of my soft hackle caddis flies on oversized, large gap hooks because the fish were swallowing my fly. Thanks always for the content!
If you wanted to catch a two foot brown trout. What western river would you go? What time of the year? What time of day or night ? What would you use ?
Have Kelly talk to us about small mouth fishing for those of us that don't leave where there is much trout water. Yes, the aluminum flotilla is definitely a thing in Michigan. The good thing is most of the time their in bunches. Keep the good stuff coming guys.
me too. very limited trout fishing here in northern indiana. great smallmouth fishing though…..and steelhead fishing depending on the year. last year would have been the return for fish stocked in 2020…they didnt stock during covid though…so 2024 kinda stunk.
I think an episode, or multiple episodes, dedicated to the Midwest would be great. Kelly obviously has a strong influence in our region. Be really cool to have Kelly chat with folks like Russ, Alex, Jerry Darkes, Schultz, etc.
Love the podcast and I fish streamers here in BC combining your style and west coast style where I flip between targeted zones and swinging for the past 8 years. If I'm swinging its Broadside 90% of the time and by catch/hook steelhead more often then you would expect...
man enjoying the series, hope y'all get some interesting new guests at some point. i fish smaller rivers on foot for browns and my retrieve usually starts coming down stream towards me and is cross current by the middle and then swinging in the last ten percent when the fly is like a rod length away. i catch alot, smart ones too that follow all the way and then eat it on the baby swing at my feet. i think its like a figure 8 for browns. do yall experience a similar thing? sometimes i think its a natural end game for fish following a baitfish.
This was a very interesting podcast, and I'm curious about y'alls opinion about targeting big fish on the Yellowstone. Other rivers in SW Montana, I primarily only stick big ones on a faster downstream retrieve. However, every big fish I've caught on the Yellowstone has been on the swing. I'll stick the 18-22's on the active retrieves, but almost seems like big ones prefer a dead drift low and slow. Do you think that's just due to the depth/amount of water on the Yellowstone, or pressure from every dingus in Bozeman fast stripping a dungeon at mach 7?
"Do nothing" retrieves that are essentially long deep dead drifts with occasional small movements work great everywhere. Hell, on the Madison you can put your favorite sculpin patter under a big ol bobber and just drag bottom all over the place and catch tons of fish.
What do you guys think about jig streamers like lance egans poacher and mayers mini leech, and do you guys think they catch the same caliber of fish a 3 inch dungeon will catch ? Great show
Wondering if Kelly and Johnny might be able to elaborate on when, where and why they stall a fly on a jerk/strip retrieve? I'm guessing ledges, buckets. etc. - but would be great if they could discuss it at some point - both on The Madison and maybe slower waters like the lower AuSable, Missouri, etc. Thank you, Eric Summers
When you add that you are tying flies using feathers from the water fowl and upland game birds you've shot with shells you reload in 100+ year old shotguns you've rebuilt, then you've reached the top of the mountain!!
The Slide Inn Pod, great stuff. Content is mostly foreign to me, as not much of trout feeding or drift boat floating applies to the fisheries in my neck o’ the woods. But it’s interesting none the less. Kelly, you were one eons before Gen Z coined the word influencer. As such there is one question needing an answer from you; take all the bait dunkers, feather chuckers, spooners, Tenkaracites, aquaculturists, commercial netters, plankton seiners supplying the health supplement and cosmetics mega industry with krill and tar us all with the same PETA brush. They are not just gunning for you or me, they are coming for us all. So, the question is, how best to survive this anti-fishing juggernaut barreling down on us?... Cheers!
@@TheSlideinn Actually Braeden, been fishing here 40 years. Caught my first wild brown on a Muddler #4. Stacked , fast water. 20 feet wide most times. You can mini swing some of the bigger pools. Not much time for animation in the runs 'cept a few jerk strips - but that is usually all it takes. I am applying your and Kellys description of technique to what we do here. On smallies, jerk strip rules.
I would love for you guys to tackle the “game changer” fly tying platform. Your thoughts, whether you think it’s fly fishing and what impacts you believe it has had on the industry. In some cases, I think game changers have built upon what Kelly pioneered. In some cases I think they are great, but I do believe they lack tradition and soul. Love for you guys to dive in deep on how you view game changers.
I trout spey twice a week here in Oregon and catch huge fish. Also catch them on Henrys fork. Approach just like a steelhead swing. Try not stripping. I'm 67 yr young.
Ok, since I've just never had an interest in tying flies, I realize that what follows is probably an incredibly ignorant question - I'm going to ask it anyway. If the big reason why it is not preferred (in many instances) to swing streamers has to do with the streamer swinging "facing" upstream on the swing, might it be possible to creatively somehow relocate the eye of the streamer hook onto the side of streamer - such that the streamer swings perpendicular to the river bank???
There are hooks and flies that create a Leech pattern called a Balanced Leech. The tough part is that even if the fly floats horizontally , the current in a river doesn't help this style, it's mostly for Lough (lake) fishing. Jig-style streamers react differently, but require movement in the swing. I've caught many big 20-plus Browns with the Spey swing technique, so I don't understand what Kelly is talking about. Just because one doesn't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work. No offence to Kelly and his co-host, I just don't agree with his thoughts about the technique.
Well, look at it from perspective of advanced modern swinging flies experts, like for Atlantic salmon. They've changed their casting angles over the years to a more perpendicular one (however, the major difference was and still remains rod length, where one can't go rod tip down to animate flies using longer Atlantic salmon fly rods, but one is attempting to do so for brown trout). So from a pure river and casting angle point of view, modern streamer anglers and modern swinging fly anglers have almost converged upon the same solution as far as the casting angle question goes. But for different reasons. Jack Forde's thing was really all about introduction of slack, enough line slack at frequent enough intervals in the fly retrieve, to really make streamer fly fishing operate. Whether you do agree with it, or not as a theory (lots of jerk bait anglers debate similar things). In modern 'perpendicular' swinging fly casting, the objective is not to release tension, or introduce any slack at all. The reason for perpendicular casts is to generate extreme speed of motion of the fly itself (creating larger downstream bellies by using modern shooting heads to achieve perpendicular angle casts). They refer to this as speed of drift (not so much swing), and it gets into a lot of things like sonic resonance, hitched flies require a certain speed of drift to be achieved in order to create a noise that provokes aggression. So triggers aren't dissimilar to the more 'jerk bait', slack line, tension line cadence of other anglers. Mikael Frodin found lots of off-cut waste Ostrich on his tying room floor, and re-cycled the pieces in a new range of flies. Why? Certain river pools had been un-fishable to him, not matter how perpendicular the cast, as the current had slowed down too much. To make the swing idea work. This sort of umbrella or out-stretched wings (the hydraulic version of humans on hang gliders), made using these pieces of Ostrich which had only been discard's. Enable Frodin to return to the slow water, and enabled him to execute some kind of swing or drift that actually worked. So what Mikael is really doing again, is trying to narrow that distance a small bit further between swing method and active retrieve. The one remaining and major constrast between the two systems, is one can do stuff using a rod pointed down stance, that's not achievable using longer Spey or Switch (nor would you want to use switch rods, or heavy single handed rods to manipulate flies with, as it would result in wrist injury). Which is why I think, one has to make at least some argument for four and five weight single handed 'micro' streamer angling (a somewhat under explored frontier), as if nothing else it affords anglers opportunity to learn retrieves, even if it's to catch blue gill. I've a 2gram to 10 gram gear rod (up to less than a half ounce), and I know it's far more suitable for jerk bait retrieve, than say a 5 gram to 20 gram baitcaster (up to three quarter ounce).
There's one book that a lot more American anglers should consult (this slightly incorrect history, that 'in the beginning' there was Halford, chalk stream dry fly method, and that was supposedly the bedrock on top of which brown trout fly fishing, tweed jackets, caps and everything else, tobacco pipes and split cane fly rods was built on top of). And this is actually 19th century successful re-branding and re-marketing, or re-packaging of what the brown trout angling sport was, or was meant to be. When in actual fact, what is far closer to what 'the bedrock' or the historical origins of brown trout fly angling was like, is more like the story that is found about massive limestone lakes such as Corrib in west of Ireland (mainly non- migratory brown trout populations), as told about by T.C. Kingsmill Moore ('A Man May Fish' from the seventies). Moore provides us with one of the only descriptions that we still have, of brown trout fly fishing mechanics and flies, how it all had worked prior to when Halford later became the 'Ray Scott', or 'KVD' of the nineteenth century world. The problem was that in the post- civil war decades, early fishing and nature journal publications in north America, that whole mega- business on the imitative dry fly side of things that Halford had created, the new north American fly fishing anglers (who would go on to build the Catskills school), bought into the chalks stream version of what brown trout angling should be. And it's far from being the whole picture. What anglers such as Gary LaFontaine did in reality, was they went back and corrected this (read Gary LaFontaine, or Rene Harrop and read Kingsmill Moore, who in turn was only making synthesis and simplified formulaic fly dressings, of what the old Corrib boatmen had done). That's when you realize, that actually La Fontaine was only going back before Halford, sort of like archaeology and he discovered a layer beneath the marketing effort of 'dry fly' that was older still. It just occurs to me, that a lot of the younger American's over there, may not have a complete picture until they consult with that history. And just for record purposes, the boatmen flies (guide flies essentially), that Moore managed to boil down into formula's, were actually all about dynamic manipulation of flies. They hadn't been static. The big innovation of dry fly was drag-free presentation that was static, and it was applicable and more effective than retrieved fly in an amazing number of places. We've no idea what the Corrib boatmen thought they were imitating, but it may not have been insect life.
liked and loved.
very few speycasters here. ive seen 2 in 24 yrs of steelheading here.
thank you for the fishing talk.
May I just say - this series is awesome. Don't listen to any naysayers. These are fantastic - please keep em' coming.
That was great! For what it's worth, I trout spey on the Delaware year round, and 100% agree that while rainbows like a straight swing, browns definitely respond better to moving the fly during the swing or just stripping it entirely (depending on water speed and time of year). Been proven to me year after year. During the coldest months, browns are more receptive a straight swing, but otherwise, moving the fly works best. One other advantage of the spey is that we can wade fish when the water's blown out and you can barely get two feet off the bank. Some of my best days with the spey rod have been when the water is 5-8K and dirty!
These have been great and definitely helped me out!
Lots of food for thought, but as a retired old guy, my favorite line was Flip’s “I just like it”.
This was great. Answered a lot of questions about Browns v Rainbows, swinging Galloup style streamers, basically everything you talked about covered tons of info I was curious about. The Slide inn Podcast is my favorite of all the fishing podcasts, as well as the other content you create; you don't hold info back. I'm curious what spey rods you all Montana guys use for trout and steelhead.
Love that you guys touch on swinging. Definitely not the most effective way to fish, especially for browns , but there is something about casting, shooting 50’ of running line and getting a tug on a traditional click pawl that gets me going. Just love waking the whole river up with a hardy Ziiiiiinnnngggg!
This is so good!
I'm headed out to Montana this Summer and am really excited so many locals have gotten into the trout spey thing. Here in NC/VA I have literally never seen another person fishing a two-hander in the 3 or 4 years I've been at it.
We may be known for our little creeks and Appalachian strain Brookies, but we also have a lot of larger tailwaters here in the South East - one I know for a fact that Kelly has fished because I watched the video ;)
I think it's neat how so many of the things Braeden talked about I have also discovered on my own here in the East. That's part of the fun factor for me - discovering things for myself. There isn't a lot of information on actually fishing a trout spey rod so it's all about figuring out what works and putting the time in.
Something I was hoping you'd bring up is how effective wet flies are for catching Brown trout on a spey rod. My home water is a Brown trout fishery and when the caddis are active you can get some violent tugs and catch tons of fish. I actually had to start tying all of my soft hackle caddis flies on oversized, large gap hooks because the fish were swallowing my fly.
Thanks always for the content!
You'll be lucky if you see more than one or two guys fishing spey gear on the Madison even during a busy day with lots of anglers out.
@@Waty8413 Oh, I don't doubt that. I bet those numbers go up on Yellowstone and Mo.
If you wanted to catch a two foot brown trout.
What western river would you go?
What time of the year?
What time of day or night ?
What would you use ?
My favorite part was when Jeremy stop trying to impress Galloup on how often he Spey fishes.😂
Cool to hear you mention Chris. He was a real fun dude and will be missed in northern Michigan.
Have Kelly talk to us about small mouth fishing for those of us that don't leave where there is much trout water. Yes, the aluminum flotilla is definitely a thing in Michigan. The good thing is most of the time their in bunches. Keep the good stuff coming guys.
me too. very limited trout fishing here in northern indiana. great smallmouth fishing though…..and steelhead fishing depending on the year. last year would have been the return for fish stocked in 2020…they didnt stock during covid though…so 2024 kinda stunk.
I think an episode, or multiple episodes, dedicated to the Midwest would be great. Kelly obviously has a strong influence in our region. Be really cool to have Kelly chat with folks like Russ, Alex, Jerry Darkes, Schultz, etc.
Just wondering if you guys ever make it over to the Wyoming portion of the Green River, both above and below Fontenelle?
Is this in an audio only format on Spotify, yet?
Yes, it’s available on Spotify and Apple
Where’s the tying video for the flathead kitty?!?!
On it
Question for Kelly, have you ever dived Quake lake? I bet that would be interesting. And thank you for the best podcast to date guys!!
Shout out from Seattle!
Love the podcast and I fish streamers here in BC combining your style and west coast style where I flip between targeted zones and swinging for the past 8 years. If I'm swinging its Broadside 90% of the time and by catch/hook steelhead more often then you would expect...
man enjoying the series, hope y'all get some interesting new guests at some point. i fish smaller rivers on foot for browns and my retrieve usually starts coming down stream towards me and is cross current by the middle and then swinging in the last ten percent when the fly is like a rod length away. i catch alot, smart ones too that follow all the way and then eat it on the baby swing at my feet. i think its like a figure 8 for browns. do yall experience a similar thing? sometimes i think its a natural end game for fish following a baitfish.
This was a very interesting podcast, and I'm curious about y'alls opinion about targeting big fish on the Yellowstone. Other rivers in SW Montana, I primarily only stick big ones on a faster downstream retrieve. However, every big fish I've caught on the Yellowstone has been on the swing. I'll stick the 18-22's on the active retrieves, but almost seems like big ones prefer a dead drift low and slow. Do you think that's just due to the depth/amount of water on the Yellowstone, or pressure from every dingus in Bozeman fast stripping a dungeon at mach 7?
"Do nothing" retrieves that are essentially long deep dead drifts with occasional small movements work great everywhere. Hell, on the Madison you can put your favorite sculpin patter under a big ol bobber and just drag bottom all over the place and catch tons of fish.
What do you guys think about jig streamers like lance egans poacher and mayers mini leech, and do you guys think they catch the same caliber of fish a 3 inch dungeon will catch ? Great show
The Cedar has some big fish, just gotta find em 😁
When Swinging, do you have to wear Pink?
not required but recommended
Wondering if Kelly and Johnny might be able to elaborate on when, where and why they stall a fly on a jerk/strip retrieve? I'm guessing ledges, buckets. etc. - but would be great if they could discuss it at some point - both on The Madison and maybe slower waters like the lower AuSable, Missouri, etc. Thank you, Eric Summers
I just like it... That's why 95% of the time, I fish rods that I build, with flies that I tied. Its so much more 'organic' feeling.
When you add that you are tying flies using feathers from the water fowl and upland game birds you've shot with shells you reload in 100+ year old shotguns you've rebuilt, then you've reached the top of the mountain!!
Heck yeah! I've used mallard feathers from duckies I've dropped. And a few clips of dog tail hairs. Hahahah. It's the best.
The Slide Inn Pod, great stuff. Content is mostly foreign to me, as not much of trout feeding or drift boat floating applies to the fisheries in my neck o’ the woods. But it’s interesting none the less. Kelly, you were one eons before Gen Z coined the word influencer. As such there is one question needing an answer from you; take all the bait dunkers, feather chuckers, spooners, Tenkaracites, aquaculturists, commercial netters, plankton seiners supplying the health supplement and cosmetics mega industry with krill and tar us all with the same PETA brush. They are not just gunning for you or me, they are coming for us all. So, the question is, how best to survive this anti-fishing juggernaut barreling down on us?... Cheers!
Always cool 😎😎
Trying to apply this to how I fish streamers in Appalachia. Love this shit.
Give it a go and let us know how it goes.
@@TheSlideinn Actually Braeden, been fishing here 40 years. Caught my first wild brown on a Muddler #4. Stacked , fast water. 20 feet wide most times. You can mini swing some of the bigger pools. Not much time for animation in the runs 'cept a few jerk strips - but that is usually all it takes. I am applying your and Kellys description of technique to what we do here. On smallies, jerk strip rules.
a link to the scott hale video please??
Ron, The video you are looking for is Skagit Master 2 and I think you have to buy the DVD or the whole video online
@@kellygalloup thanks
Very good
More fly tying Kelly please ..
I would love for you guys to tackle the “game changer” fly tying platform. Your thoughts, whether you think it’s fly fishing and what impacts you believe it has had on the industry.
In some cases, I think game changers have built upon what Kelly pioneered. In some cases I think they are great, but I do believe they lack tradition and soul.
Love for you guys to dive in deep on how you view game changers.
Johnny is great it’s nice when he is on the show
Where's Johnny? He was great and very interesting
I trout spey twice a week here in Oregon and catch huge fish. Also catch them on Henrys fork. Approach just like a steelhead swing. Try not stripping. I'm 67 yr young.
OK this has probably been suggested but call it "Kelly's Rodcast" ??
Name Suggestion: “Casting Aspersions”
You mention Bob Jacklin a Lot. It would be great to see him come on.
Ok, since I've just never had an interest in tying flies, I realize that what follows is probably an incredibly ignorant question - I'm going to ask it anyway.
If the big reason why it is not preferred (in many instances) to swing streamers has to do with the streamer swinging "facing" upstream on the swing, might it be possible to creatively somehow relocate the eye of the streamer hook onto the side of streamer - such that the streamer swings perpendicular to the river bank???
There are hooks and flies that create a Leech pattern called a Balanced Leech. The tough part is that even if the fly floats horizontally , the current in a river doesn't help this style, it's mostly for Lough (lake) fishing. Jig-style streamers react differently, but require movement in the swing. I've caught many big 20-plus Browns with the Spey swing technique, so I don't understand what Kelly is talking about. Just because one doesn't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work. No offence to Kelly and his co-host, I just don't agree with his thoughts about the technique.
Well, look at it from perspective of advanced modern swinging flies experts, like for Atlantic salmon. They've changed their casting angles over the years to a more perpendicular one (however, the major difference was and still remains rod length, where one can't go rod tip down to animate flies using longer Atlantic salmon fly rods, but one is attempting to do so for brown trout). So from a pure river and casting angle point of view, modern streamer anglers and modern swinging fly anglers have almost converged upon the same solution as far as the casting angle question goes. But for different reasons. Jack Forde's thing was really all about introduction of slack, enough line slack at frequent enough intervals in the fly retrieve, to really make streamer fly fishing operate. Whether you do agree with it, or not as a theory (lots of jerk bait anglers debate similar things). In modern 'perpendicular' swinging fly casting, the objective is not to release tension, or introduce any slack at all. The reason for perpendicular casts is to generate extreme speed of motion of the fly itself (creating larger downstream bellies by using modern shooting heads to achieve perpendicular angle casts). They refer to this as speed of drift (not so much swing), and it gets into a lot of things like sonic resonance, hitched flies require a certain speed of drift to be achieved in order to create a noise that provokes aggression. So triggers aren't dissimilar to the more 'jerk bait', slack line, tension line cadence of other anglers. Mikael Frodin found lots of off-cut waste Ostrich on his tying room floor, and re-cycled the pieces in a new range of flies. Why? Certain river pools had been un-fishable to him, not matter how perpendicular the cast, as the current had slowed down too much. To make the swing idea work. This sort of umbrella or out-stretched wings (the hydraulic version of humans on hang gliders), made using these pieces of Ostrich which had only been discard's. Enable Frodin to return to the slow water, and enabled him to execute some kind of swing or drift that actually worked. So what Mikael is really doing again, is trying to narrow that distance a small bit further between swing method and active retrieve. The one remaining and major constrast between the two systems, is one can do stuff using a rod pointed down stance, that's not achievable using longer Spey or Switch (nor would you want to use switch rods, or heavy single handed rods to manipulate flies with, as it would result in wrist injury). Which is why I think, one has to make at least some argument for four and five weight single handed 'micro' streamer angling (a somewhat under explored frontier), as if nothing else it affords anglers opportunity to learn retrieves, even if it's to catch blue gill. I've a 2gram to 10 gram gear rod (up to less than a half ounce), and I know it's far more suitable for jerk bait retrieve, than say a 5 gram to 20 gram baitcaster (up to three quarter ounce).
thank you!
point to some good Kelly vid's that cover casting cross current/stream, thanks
There's one book that a lot more American anglers should consult (this slightly incorrect history, that 'in the beginning' there was Halford, chalk stream dry fly method, and that was supposedly the bedrock on top of which brown trout fly fishing, tweed jackets, caps and everything else, tobacco pipes and split cane fly rods was built on top of). And this is actually 19th century successful re-branding and re-marketing, or re-packaging of what the brown trout angling sport was, or was meant to be. When in actual fact, what is far closer to what 'the bedrock' or the historical origins of brown trout fly angling was like, is more like the story that is found about massive limestone lakes such as Corrib in west of Ireland (mainly non- migratory brown trout populations), as told about by T.C. Kingsmill Moore ('A Man May Fish' from the seventies). Moore provides us with one of the only descriptions that we still have, of brown trout fly fishing mechanics and flies, how it all had worked prior to when Halford later became the 'Ray Scott', or 'KVD' of the nineteenth century world. The problem was that in the post- civil war decades, early fishing and nature journal publications in north America, that whole mega- business on the imitative dry fly side of things that Halford had created, the new north American fly fishing anglers (who would go on to build the Catskills school), bought into the chalks stream version of what brown trout angling should be. And it's far from being the whole picture. What anglers such as Gary LaFontaine did in reality, was they went back and corrected this (read Gary LaFontaine, or Rene Harrop and read Kingsmill Moore, who in turn was only making synthesis and simplified formulaic fly dressings, of what the old Corrib boatmen had done). That's when you realize, that actually La Fontaine was only going back before Halford, sort of like archaeology and he discovered a layer beneath the marketing effort of 'dry fly' that was older still. It just occurs to me, that a lot of the younger American's over there, may not have a complete picture until they consult with that history. And just for record purposes, the boatmen flies (guide flies essentially), that Moore managed to boil down into formula's, were actually all about dynamic manipulation of flies. They hadn't been static. The big innovation of dry fly was drag-free presentation that was static, and it was applicable and more effective than retrieved fly in an amazing number of places. We've no idea what the Corrib boatmen thought they were imitating, but it may not have been insect life.
I thought Johnnie's nickname was squirrel. Squirrelly like Johnnie. Podcast should be called
"Getting Squirrelly with Johnnie"
Johnnie’s nickname is Beaver, and Shirley’s is Squirrel
That was a tough one to hang with to the end. Needed a little Roundup.