@petertrast " I just think you want the world to be filled with good people" One of my favourite books is the Art of War. The basic assumption of the book is you can't rely on people to be good. You must rely on strategy and planning. Completely the opposite of what you thought you knew about me.
@petertrast I didn't make any suggestions as to what kind of person you are. Yet you do exactly that to me. Some consider the attitude "I'm allowed to do X because I'm me and you're not allowed to do X because you're you" is a sign of immaturity.
@petertrast That's because the song is an ALLEGORY. It's not meant to say "this is a realistic portrayal of what actually happens." It's an ALLEGORY which addresses the fact that military actions in home and abroad provides grounds for radicals to convert people. Have you taken high school english classes before? Have they not taught about about metaphors, allegories etc? What use is your Latin knowledge if you can't even understand the purpose of allegories?
@kwanarchive They are not mutually exclusive. And a song that speaks of specific tortures is not purely figurative either, even if it is not literal lacking specific victims. And I will not admit that I am wrong when it comes to addressing the intent of the songwriters. I have lived and worked with this type of musician, I KNOW the warped thinking of the anti-establishment types. I worked and lived intimately with them. That is why I think I understand your point of view, typical musician.
@petertrast "because I KNOW that violence is the only solution to some problems" I solution that propagates the problem it was meant to solve in the first place IS NOT a solution. As someone who claims to work in IT, you should KNOW that.
@kwanarchive Looking up your account seemed more reasonable than making assumptions out of thin air. TH-cam channels have a way of revealing alot about people. I was actually enjoying some of the acoustic guitar videos...
@petertrast "I know exactly what you are and it fits perfectly into my first impression." And you fit exactly to my first impression of you as an ultra-conservative who only knows how to use brute force to solve problems (as opposed to well directed force). But for the record, I am not anti-establishment. In fact, I'm very pro-science, for example, and that's viewed by many to be establishment.
@kwanarchive The discussion cannot end until you are able to admit that the purpose of the song is to suggest that the "victim" becomes a terrorist only because he is unjustly accused and tortured. The FACT is that there are thousands, potentially millions that hate us and would cut our throats JUST because we are not muslims. Some people hate simply based on differences in faith, and would slaughter man, woman and child for the single fact that they do not believe.
@petertrast "So get some sleep, programmers need rest as much as i do!" Hang on, your powerful skills of observation has not clued you in on the fact I'm in Australia and thus in a different time zone, thus making this the middle of the day for me?
@kwanarchive "I will be the man that they want me to be..." they say in the song. If you lack the IQ to understand that they are suggesting that the "alleged" terrorist becomes a "real" terrorist because of the torture he endures, then there is nothing left to say about that... Except tune that tele, use a tuner if you need to... it looks like a decent guitar but nothing sounds worse than a tele that sounds like it was left in a hot car and then dropped down the stairs.
@kwanarchive Nope. Just restating the fact that NOT torturing will not solve the problem, they will kill with no provocation at all, except your failure to convert.
@kwanarchive I would be happy to hear your ideas on solving the problem. Just let them kill and maim unanswered? Or we should just all convert so they will be happy? Convert to which sect? They are killing each other too. It is hopeless. I am a realist. I appreciate your optimism but it is misplaced, I am sorry to be the one to say that.
@petertrast "When you write a song about "real" people, ie, tortured humans that actually exist, you don't have an allegory." You're grasping at straws there, mate. The main point of the song is that it is not literal. A fact you continue to ignore. And yes, the song does qualify as an allegory because the person in the song is a PERSONIFICATION. It's written as though he's a real person, in much the same way the Death allegory is based on the real fact of death.
@kwanarchive When you write a song about "real" people, ie, tortured humans that actually exist, you don't have an allegory. An allegory would be the grim reaper representing death or Justice as a woman holding scales. Or it could even be a story like the Chronicles Of Narnia which is an allegorical representation of Biblical history. Do you think the grim reaper is an actual person? Do you believe that Aslan is a historical figure? The Latin allegoria means "veiled language, figurative". N/A
@kwanarchive I am an isolationist, I think the USA needs to mind our business. I really cannot argue with you on that point. But how do you propose we "fight terrorism" if we don't hunt them down in their homeland? Thomas Jefferson was a fierce isolationist but even he believed in hunting down terrorists and he commissioned the Marine Corps to serve that very purpose sending them to North Africa to destroy them BEFORE they could get to America. Civilian casualties are an unavoidable byproduct.
Looking back on youtube before comment threads looks mighty odd. Or maybe they still had threads 12 years ago, and the people chose to argue outside of it for fun, you know, as a gag. Actually, that sounds pretty fun. So, all who read this, spread chaos amongst some current videos. " @ " some random person, outside of "their" thread.
@petertrast "I am a realist. I appreciate your optimism but it is misplaced, I am sorry to be the one to say that." You know, I'd like to discuss ideas to the problem, but I find myself having to defend against your stupid assumptions such that I can't fit much more into a TH-cam comment. At this point, it's clear you're going to hold the fact I play guitar against me, which is completely irrelevant and takes this debate beyond what sound logic, reason and evidence can.
@petertrast How are those two conclusions mutually exclusive? Some people victims becomes radicalized. Others become radicalized because their families are victims. Others become radicalized by choice. Doesn't negate the fact that victims CAN become radicalized due to torture. It also doesn't negate the fact that the song is not LITERAL either. Stop going around in circles and admit that your criticisms have been addressed and proven wrong.
@kwanarchive At a stretch, I will admit that the dramatic exaggeration of real people might qualify as semi-allegorical since we don't have the names of the specific people that were tortured in the song and the suspected terrorist represents all others, but this is a weak allegory in that all of the atrocities mentioned in the song happened to REAL people, if not just the one dramatised character narrating the song. A better term might be satire.
@petertrast Where have I said there should be no civilian casualties? Doesn't mean we shouldn't put pressure on the military into reducing the number of civilian casualties. And furthermore, the fact is, as the song alludes to, atrocities against innocent civilians provides a breeding ground for radicalization regardless of intent of the killing. Instead of getting all emotional, how about addressing the realities in a rational manner?
@kwanarchive This is a terrible forum, true...lol. Hey, I play guitar too. Being a musician doesn't make you stupid, just more likely to have a heart, no crime there :)
@kwanarchive Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures. The figures in the song are real people who were actually "tortured" (strong teasing is a better term), so allegory does NOT apply. Maybe your English skills are the ones truly lacking. Yeah I took high school English, and I mentored college English students when I was 14. My IQ is actually only 148 so I am only barely a genious... but I am certainly capable of doing this until I bore of it... lol
@kwanarchive I do believe that some people become radicalized by the treatment those prisoners received. But inaction in response to terrorism will not wish the problem away. Hiroshima and Nagasaki experienced the death of 100's of 1000's of civilians from US made and dropped hydrogen bombs, but those bombs probably saved the lives of millions of soldiers and civilians. Japan would never have given up short of that action. They expressed this EXACT sentiment when they surrendered so don't bother
@petertrast Considering that after all this discussion, you still completely miss the meaning of the song, I think it proves my case. I don't understand the rest of your post. Nowhere have I called you out on doing something I have also done. Calling you an idiot, ignorant and immature were statements of observation, and not, as you accuse, an assumption of what or who you are. My tele was plugged up to a crappy amp and my camera has a crappy mic. High distortion + crappy mic = crappy sound.
@petertrast "Terrorists don't play by any rules." So we should become terrorists and use terror tactics? And do you not see how that attitude actually gives radicals a valid excuse, as per the allegory in the song? I'm almost afraid to bring up the song now in case we end up arguing again about what the song did not say at all. Think strategically. You do not want to give terrorists a GOOD reason to fight us.
@kwanarchive I am not anti-establishment, I merely protest the developing police state in America. Many police believe they have the right to stop and question anyone at any time. This violates the Constitution.
@petertrast "Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures. The figures in the song are real people..." Are you kidding me? How much more "symbolic" can this song be? They didn't even say the song was based on a real person. It's obvious this song was constructed rather than just a retelling of a news item. Here's another clue: It's a freaking COMEDY song. Do you hear the laughing in the video? Or did you really think the singer was singing about himself?
@kwanarchive My flaws are easy to spot :) They don't make me an idiot or make you smart for seeing them... lol... We all have them and they do not sum us up. One of my big problems with the song is that it IS done as a comedy. I find no humor in the material. It is a dark reminder of what people are, even the ones you thought were the good guys. Humiliation for fun is bullying and i would personally have busted their noses if they were in my unit.
@petertrast Did the song say that its story was a major cause of the war? NO. Are people allowed to be concerned about human rights abuses even at "minor" levels? YES. Does fighting a war against terror behoove us to act BETTER than terrorists. YES. I will not stop calling you an idiot if you persist in being provably wrong. You're wrong about the song, you're wrong about its story, you're wrong about its implications. You're also wrong about facts. eg, the London bombings IS radicalization.
@petertrast Americans have a weird understanding of the word "left" or "liberal". And really, you're going to debate on Latin grounds? That's like saying "I have no more salient arguments, so I'm going to nitpick on inconsequential words to make myself feel smart." The song is written in modern English. Not Latin. Maybe that's why you have trouble comprehending the song.
@petertrast "So... you AREN'T a musician? Someone else was playing in the videos?" Does that somehow suddenly change me into a pro-establishment or anti-establishment naive person? If you call me German, does that mean I'm no longer Chinese?
@petertrast No you miss the point of the song. In your own words "soldiers create terrorists". That is not what the song is saying AT ALL. I've already explained it to you why that is. Because you still don't get it, that is the definition of "idiot". Whereas you ASSUME I'm a leftist that watches CNN and MSNBC, you commit the error you accuse me of doing. Therefore, it is you who are doing name calling as a substitution for logic. I do name calling as a summary of observation.
@kwanarchive Well, you make alot of videos for someone who is not a musician. Obviously, you are not a pro and I never suggested otherwise. I also work in IT but so what? I am also a musician for fun. I imagine nothing. You play music, ergo, you are a musician... I did not say a pro. There is a mindset typical of MOST musicians, especially those who are programmers. Yeah, I have several that work for me. I know exactly what you are and it fits perfectly into my first impression.
@petertrast On the other hand, I like the way you looked my account up so that you can draw overarching conclusions about me based on stupid reasoning. You accused me of assuming things about you, but you are the only doing it. So it's all right when you do it, is it?
@petertrast On the contrary, by "cowboy" fantasies, I'm talking about the politicians who sent soldiers into war thinking outright force and guns and bombs and a "yeehah!" will solve a problem, forgetting to plan against the real possibility of making things worse. Futhermore, it's not just soldiers, but professional "contractors" who actually do behave like cowboys. Way to miss the point in order to allow yourself to parrot cliched talking points.
@kwanarchive I didnt say you dont deserve to speak, I merely devalued your opinion based on your naivete of the real world. We can agree on fighting wars better but... how does that actually work? Terrorists don't play by any rules.
@petertrast "I don't provide the argument for their future actions, the Q'uran does." And so you're going back to the argument that civilian abuse does not push people into radicalization?
@kwanarchive A good reason in the TERRORISTS minds. You actually think I thought it was a GOOD reason?? I don't provide the argument for their future actions, the Q'uran does. You might read it 5 or 6 times like I have and understand what they are.
@petertrast "Do you say, "Please Mr. bad man, don't hurt me, I play guitar and write software." That is naive and childish." You're arguing something completely irrelevant now, neither points I have actually argued for. However, you HAVE argued that I don't deserve to speak because I haven't fought in wars, which IS naive and childish and dictatorial at least. Once again, I have not said "no war". I said "wage war BETTER".
@kwanarchive Actually a great book. But I actually believe in the goodness of most people. I just don't count on it. Trust, but verify, as Reagan said. I never thought you ignorant or uneducated, as you have accused me. I merely stated that you are naive. Big difference.
@petertrast "A better term might be satire." A satirical piece that uses an allegory to get its message across. Or are you going to tell me satire and allegory are mutually exclusive, abusing your qualification as an English major to make up rules on the fly to take advantage of those without a degree in English? Can we end this debate? You've already admitted that torture could propagate radicalization, thereby rendering both your interpretation of the song and your own argument wrong.
@petertrast I don't believe military action necessarily makes the world a better place so I strongly disagree that I'm not allowed to speak because I have no military experience. To argue so is dictatorship and if I won't stand it coming from the Muslims, I certainly won't stand it coming from you, an American. I contribute to make the world a better place by promoting things like science and ethical economic development. For you to think peace is only obtained through war is idiotic.
It's funny you should talk about numbers. How many civilian casualties are there in Iraq and Afghanistan compared to the 9/11 attacks? If you're going to argue that human rights abuse is okay in small numbers, then you are arguing atrocities are okay in small numbers. In which case, your argument when applied to the 9/11 attacks completely exonerates the 9/11 attackers because they killed less civilians by percentage. Do you really think you should be arguing your position?
@kwanarchive Now you outright lie. You called me an idiot in your first post and ignorant in a later post. And your last post suggests I am immature. You have done exactly what you have accused me of and deny that you did it. And you did it first just because I didn't like the video and called them out for their simplistic and incorrect assumption that soldiers create terrorists. BTW, the acoustic guitar sounds way better than the tele, you should play it more.
@kwanarchive "cowboy fantasies"??? Have you ever been a soldier? I have and you insult the 99.99% of professional military that give up so much personal liberty to protect the liberty of others for a crappy paycheck and scorn by people who think they know something about military service. Until you have been a soldier and faced the grim realities of "cowboy fantasies", your opinion of soldiers is practically useless. If you have been a soldier, don't project your own shortcomings on others.
@kwanarchive If you can agree that 1000s or even millions would like to cut our throats simply for not believing in Islam and that radicalization plays a minor part in the war on terror, then we might be able to agree. If you simply want to prove me to be an "idiot", I never back down. I have been a soldier, a musician, a teacher, a mentor, and many other things practical and artistic. I have lived a broad experience and will not sit still for your insults. I only look for truth, painful or not
@petertrast "Just restating the fact that NOT torturing will not solve the problem" And so we might as well continue with the torture then. You call me naive, but your attitude is beyond childish. You may as well say: "We're not going to eliminate crime, so we should just not bother with police or the courts or the law." It's strange, as an atheist, I'm constantly accused of being morally relative. And yet I'm the one with clear morals here. I wish religious people can see this.
@petertrast "Looking up your account seemed more reasonable than making assumptions out of thin air." And yet you STILL ended up making assumptions out of thin air. It's one thing to say you're doing something, but it's another thing to end up not doing it. This is the kind of hypocrisy that turns me away from right wingers and the extreme left.
@petertrast "Now you assume I am a right winger" No, I said, your hypocrisy is why I don't like the right or the extreme left. And the charge of hypocrisy is not an assumption but based entirely on your actions that you say it's not okay for me to make assumptions about you but entirely okay for you to make assumptions about me based on TH-cam VIDEOS for God's sake. And no, in the context of GLOBAL politics, your views are CENTRIST, not the skewed left wing of the USA. And you say I'm naive...
@petertrast "But I actually believe in the goodness of most people. I just don't count on it." And nothing I said should give the impression I think we can count on people to be good. So you're basically arguing against no one. I didn't say you were uneducated. I call you an idiot precisely because you are educated and yet you draw so many false conclusions from a COMEDY SONG. I'm not the fastest of thinkers so if I can spot your flaws, you are in big trouble.
@kwanarchive But I will say this one thing. Someone said if you are not a liberal when you are young, you have no heart. And if you are not a conservative when you get old, you have no brain. I understand why you despise the actions of the antagonists so much. You just lack the wisdom of years to understand why it is unavoidable. Evil men must be dealt with and innocents are caught up in the storm. Wishing it to be different does not make it so and singing satire about it does NOT ease the pain
@kwanarchive Now you assume I am a right winger. Many of my opinions would surprise you, maybe even sound leftist to some. I don't hold to any man's creed, just to what I know is right and just and ethical, regardless of laws and social moires. i am a sovereign citizen of the earth, almost anarchistic in my world view. But some social conventions happen to align with my personal truth. Example, I hate abortion but disagree with legislating about it. I think weed is bad but should be legal, etc
@kwanarchive On the globe, most would call me a right winger because I KNOW that violence is the only solution to some problems and the fact that I happen to have a faith system that goes beyond "big bang". But i don't believe in the institutions of men that have distorted truth and created misery for millenia. So... you AREN'T a musician? Someone else was playing in the videos?
@petertrast Who's arguing that America CREATED the hate? The argument being made here is that whoever started it, the Americans aren't helping by abusing human rights and raping and killing innocent civilians. By all means, fight terrorism, but that is no excuse to go in all guns blazing and expect people to take collateral damage and not radicalize. The song just makes it a bit comical and it's ridiculous of you to draw the conclusion you did about Tripod based on a comedy song.
@kwanarchive No I understand the meaning of the song all too well. It is leftist propaganda disguised as humorous fun. Calling names is proof of an inability to make a case by logic, not observations. Your opinion of my opinion does not prove that I am any of those things. It merely proves we disagree so you take the typical liberal approach, politics of destruction, attempting to discredit me by name-calling. That's how the press does it, too. The tele is fine, you need to tune it properly.
@kwanarchive What are you talking about "cliched talking points"? You said young boys posing as adults so you obviously meant the soldiers themselves. Nice try. And I was a government contractor for 13 years after leaving the military, so again I know for a fact that you are speaking of an extremely small minority. And again, you must be repeating what the Obama propaganda machine is saying because I have been in those shoes, military and civilian. Go worry about your own socialist government.
I kind of like the sound. It makes it sound like a phonograph from the 20's when this song style was popular. It adds to the "feel" of it.
LOL I think this is my favourite Tripod song. Scod's falsetto is impeccable.
@petertrast " I just think you want the world to be filled with good people"
One of my favourite books is the Art of War. The basic assumption of the book is you can't rely on people to be good. You must rely on strategy and planning. Completely the opposite of what you thought you knew about me.
@petertrast
I didn't make any suggestions as to what kind of person you are. Yet you do exactly that to me.
Some consider the attitude "I'm allowed to do X because I'm me and you're not allowed to do X because you're you" is a sign of immaturity.
Sorry...this wasn't recorded in hi-def and ever since TH-cam tweaked things some sound went downhill.
Pandora for sure....
@petertrast
That's because the song is an ALLEGORY. It's not meant to say "this is a realistic portrayal of what actually happens." It's an ALLEGORY which addresses the fact that military actions in home and abroad provides grounds for radicals to convert people.
Have you taken high school english classes before? Have they not taught about about metaphors, allegories etc?
What use is your Latin knowledge if you can't even understand the purpose of allegories?
Weird the visual quality looks weird today. this is a fun song thanks
There is another that has side show in the name same show but good audio
Pandora!
@kwanarchive They are not mutually exclusive. And a song that speaks of specific tortures is not purely figurative either, even if it is not literal lacking specific victims.
And I will not admit that I am wrong when it comes to addressing the intent of the songwriters. I have lived and worked with this type of musician, I KNOW the warped thinking of the anti-establishment types. I worked and lived intimately with them. That is why I think I understand your point of view, typical musician.
@petertrast "because I KNOW that violence is the only solution to some problems"
I solution that propagates the problem it was meant to solve in the first place IS NOT a solution. As someone who claims to work in IT, you should KNOW that.
@kwanarchive Looking up your account seemed more reasonable than making assumptions out of thin air. TH-cam channels have a way of revealing alot about people. I was actually enjoying some of the acoustic guitar videos...
@petertrast "I know exactly what you are and it fits perfectly into my first impression."
And you fit exactly to my first impression of you as an ultra-conservative who only knows how to use brute force to solve problems (as opposed to well directed force). But for the record, I am not anti-establishment. In fact, I'm very pro-science, for example, and that's viewed by many to be establishment.
@kwanarchive The discussion cannot end until you are able to admit that the purpose of the song is to suggest that the "victim" becomes a terrorist only because he is unjustly accused and tortured. The FACT is that there are thousands, potentially millions that hate us and would cut our throats JUST because we are not muslims. Some people hate simply based on differences in faith, and would slaughter man, woman and child for the single fact that they do not believe.
This is very Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon lol.
@petertrast "So get some sleep, programmers need rest as much as i do!"
Hang on, your powerful skills of observation has not clued you in on the fact I'm in Australia and thus in a different time zone, thus making this the middle of the day for me?
So, how's it going?
I wonder if tripod lookup their own clips?
@kwanarchive Actually I was an English major. Then I taught English. Not a problem. So I might be somewhat literate...
@kwanarchive "I will be the man that they want me to be..." they say in the song. If you lack the IQ to understand that they are suggesting that the "alleged" terrorist becomes a "real" terrorist because of the torture he endures, then there is nothing left to say about that...
Except tune that tele, use a tuner if you need to... it looks like a decent guitar but nothing sounds worse than a tele that sounds like it was left in a hot car and then dropped down the stairs.
@ladypercy Can't you try to re-upload it ?
@fantasylover305 sameee!
@kwanarchive Nope. Just restating the fact that NOT torturing will not solve the problem, they will kill with no provocation at all, except your failure to convert.
Possibly their best song. I love suicide bomber...
@kwanarchive I would be happy to hear your ideas on solving the problem. Just let them kill and maim unanswered? Or we should just all convert so they will be happy? Convert to which sect? They are killing each other too. It is hopeless. I am a realist. I appreciate your optimism but it is misplaced, I am sorry to be the one to say that.
@petertrast "When you write a song about "real" people, ie, tortured humans that actually exist, you don't have an allegory."
You're grasping at straws there, mate. The main point of the song is that it is not literal. A fact you continue to ignore.
And yes, the song does qualify as an allegory because the person in the song is a PERSONIFICATION. It's written as though he's a real person, in much the same way the Death allegory is based on the real fact of death.
@kwanarchive When you write a song about "real" people, ie, tortured humans that actually exist, you don't have an allegory. An allegory would be the grim reaper representing death or Justice as a woman holding scales. Or it could even be a story like the Chronicles Of Narnia which is an allegorical representation of Biblical history. Do you think the grim reaper is an actual person? Do you believe that Aslan is a historical figure? The Latin allegoria means "veiled language, figurative". N/A
@Rasanack 131 people are his sons after that.
@kwanarchive I am an isolationist, I think the USA needs to mind our business. I really cannot argue with you on that point. But how do you propose we "fight terrorism" if we don't hunt them down in their homeland? Thomas Jefferson was a fierce isolationist but even he believed in hunting down terrorists and he commissioned the Marine Corps to serve that very purpose sending them to North Africa to destroy them BEFORE they could get to America. Civilian casualties are an unavoidable byproduct.
Looking back on youtube before comment threads looks mighty odd.
Or maybe they still had threads 12 years ago, and the people chose to argue outside of it for fun, you know, as a gag.
Actually, that sounds pretty fun. So, all who read this, spread chaos amongst some current videos. " @ " some random person, outside of "their" thread.
@petertrast "I am a realist. I appreciate your optimism but it is misplaced, I am sorry to be the one to say that."
You know, I'd like to discuss ideas to the problem, but I find myself having to defend against your stupid assumptions such that I can't fit much more into a TH-cam comment.
At this point, it's clear you're going to hold the fact I play guitar against me, which is completely irrelevant and takes this debate beyond what sound logic, reason and evidence can.
The comments below mine are just arguing....
I less-than-three Tripod. Hillarious.
@petertrast
How are those two conclusions mutually exclusive? Some people victims becomes radicalized. Others become radicalized because their families are victims. Others become radicalized by choice.
Doesn't negate the fact that victims CAN become radicalized due to torture.
It also doesn't negate the fact that the song is not LITERAL either.
Stop going around in circles and admit that your criticisms have been addressed and proven wrong.
@kwanarchive At a stretch, I will admit that the dramatic exaggeration of real people might qualify as semi-allegorical since we don't have the names of the specific people that were tortured in the song and the suspected terrorist represents all others, but this is a weak allegory in that all of the atrocities mentioned in the song happened to REAL people, if not just the one dramatised character narrating the song. A better term might be satire.
@petertrast
Where have I said there should be no civilian casualties? Doesn't mean we shouldn't put pressure on the military into reducing the number of civilian casualties. And furthermore, the fact is, as the song alludes to, atrocities against innocent civilians provides a breeding ground for radicalization regardless of intent of the killing.
Instead of getting all emotional, how about addressing the realities in a rational manner?
@kwanarchive This is a terrible forum, true...lol. Hey, I play guitar too. Being a musician doesn't make you stupid, just more likely to have a heart, no crime there :)
@kwanarchive Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures. The figures in the song are real people who were actually "tortured" (strong teasing is a better term), so allegory does NOT apply. Maybe your English skills are the ones truly lacking.
Yeah I took high school English, and I mentored college English students when I was 14. My IQ is actually only 148 so I am only barely a genious... but I am certainly capable of doing this until I bore of it... lol
@kwanarchive I do believe that some people become radicalized by the treatment those prisoners received. But inaction in response to terrorism will not wish the problem away. Hiroshima and Nagasaki experienced the death of 100's of 1000's of civilians from US made and dropped hydrogen bombs, but those bombs probably saved the lives of millions of soldiers and civilians. Japan would never have given up short of that action. They expressed this EXACT sentiment when they surrendered so don't bother
@petertrast "Actually I was an English major"
And yet you still don't understand that the song is an allegory....
Another Pandora-ite here. Went off to order the CD afterward. Import and all, but well worth it.
try again?
yay Pandora
@petertrast
Considering that after all this discussion, you still completely miss the meaning of the song, I think it proves my case.
I don't understand the rest of your post. Nowhere have I called you out on doing something I have also done. Calling you an idiot, ignorant and immature were statements of observation, and not, as you accuse, an assumption of what or who you are.
My tele was plugged up to a crappy amp and my camera has a crappy mic. High distortion + crappy mic = crappy sound.
@petertrast "Terrorists don't play by any rules."
So we should become terrorists and use terror tactics? And do you not see how that attitude actually gives radicals a valid excuse, as per the allegory in the song? I'm almost afraid to bring up the song now in case we end up arguing again about what the song did not say at all.
Think strategically. You do not want to give terrorists a GOOD reason to fight us.
@kwanarchive I am not anti-establishment, I merely protest the developing police state in America. Many police believe they have the right to stop and question anyone at any time. This violates the Constitution.
So, how's it going?
@kwanarchive So get some sleep, programmers need rest as much as i do!
@petertrast "Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures. The figures in the song are real people..."
Are you kidding me? How much more "symbolic" can this song be? They didn't even say the song was based on a real person. It's obvious this song was constructed rather than just a retelling of a news item. Here's another clue: It's a freaking COMEDY song. Do you hear the laughing in the video? Or did you really think the singer was singing about himself?
Can anyone help me find Hunterman? I will be eternally grateful.
love how the presenter couldn't keep his face straight at the beggining
lol talking into a sock
Why pandora? Why!!!!!
@kwanarchive My flaws are easy to spot :) They don't make me an idiot or make you smart for seeing them... lol... We all have them and they do not sum us up. One of my big problems with the song is that it IS done as a comedy. I find no humor in the material. It is a dark reminder of what people are, even the ones you thought were the good guys. Humiliation for fun is bullying and i would personally have busted their noses if they were in my unit.
It's 6 years old
It's nearly ten years old now
@@Nifn45 Fifteen years!
@petertrast
Did the song say that its story was a major cause of the war? NO. Are people allowed to be concerned about human rights abuses even at "minor" levels? YES. Does fighting a war against terror behoove us to act BETTER than terrorists. YES.
I will not stop calling you an idiot if you persist in being provably wrong. You're wrong about the song, you're wrong about its story, you're wrong about its implications. You're also wrong about facts. eg, the London bombings IS radicalization.
sound quality sucks but great video none the less thanx for uploading
As am I
@petertrast "Don't get me started on police."
And you call me anti-establishment...
@petertrast
Americans have a weird understanding of the word "left" or "liberal". And really, you're going to debate on Latin grounds? That's like saying "I have no more salient arguments, so I'm going to nitpick on inconsequential words to make myself feel smart."
The song is written in modern English. Not Latin. Maybe that's why you have trouble comprehending the song.
@petertrast "So... you AREN'T a musician? Someone else was playing in the videos?"
Does that somehow suddenly change me into a pro-establishment or anti-establishment naive person?
If you call me German, does that mean I'm no longer Chinese?
10 People wore Poo for a hat.
@petertrast
No you miss the point of the song. In your own words "soldiers create terrorists". That is not what the song is saying AT ALL. I've already explained it to you why that is. Because you still don't get it, that is the definition of "idiot".
Whereas you ASSUME I'm a leftist that watches CNN and MSNBC, you commit the error you accuse me of doing.
Therefore, it is you who are doing name calling as a substitution for logic. I do name calling as a summary of observation.
@kwanarchive Well, you make alot of videos for someone who is not a musician. Obviously, you are not a pro and I never suggested otherwise. I also work in IT but so what? I am also a musician for fun.
I imagine nothing. You play music, ergo, you are a musician... I did not say a pro. There is a mindset typical of MOST musicians, especially those who are programmers. Yeah, I have several that work for me. I know exactly what you are and it fits perfectly into my first impression.
BAD audio love this band off pandora I actually typed in weird al LOL
@petertrast
On the other hand, I like the way you looked my account up so that you can draw overarching conclusions about me based on stupid reasoning.
You accused me of assuming things about you, but you are the only doing it. So it's all right when you do it, is it?
only in aus
@petertrast
On the contrary, by "cowboy" fantasies, I'm talking about the politicians who sent soldiers into war thinking outright force and guns and bombs and a "yeehah!" will solve a problem, forgetting to plan against the real possibility of making things worse.
Futhermore, it's not just soldiers, but professional "contractors" who actually do behave like cowboys.
Way to miss the point in order to allow yourself to parrot cliched talking points.
@kwanarchive I didnt say you dont deserve to speak, I merely devalued your opinion based on your naivete of the real world. We can agree on fighting wars better but... how does that actually work? Terrorists don't play by any rules.
Another Pandroa victim!
Love this song!
@petertrast "I don't provide the argument for their future actions, the Q'uran does."
And so you're going back to the argument that civilian abuse does not push people into radicalization?
@kwanarchive A good reason in the TERRORISTS minds. You actually think I thought it was a GOOD reason??
I don't provide the argument for their future actions, the Q'uran does. You might read it 5 or 6 times like I have and understand what they are.
@petertrast "Do you say, "Please Mr. bad man, don't hurt me, I play guitar and write software." That is naive and childish."
You're arguing something completely irrelevant now, neither points I have actually argued for. However, you HAVE argued that I don't deserve to speak because I haven't fought in wars, which IS naive and childish and dictatorial at least.
Once again, I have not said "no war". I said "wage war BETTER".
The sound on this is really horrible
@kwanarchive Actually a great book. But I actually believe in the goodness of most people. I just don't count on it. Trust, but verify, as Reagan said. I never thought you ignorant or uneducated, as you have accused me. I merely stated that you are naive. Big difference.
@petertrast "A better term might be satire."
A satirical piece that uses an allegory to get its message across. Or are you going to tell me satire and allegory are mutually exclusive, abusing your qualification as an English major to make up rules on the fly to take advantage of those without a degree in English?
Can we end this debate? You've already admitted that torture could propagate radicalization, thereby rendering both your interpretation of the song and your own argument wrong.
@petertrast
I don't believe military action necessarily makes the world a better place so I strongly disagree that I'm not allowed to speak because I have no military experience. To argue so is dictatorship and if I won't stand it coming from the Muslims, I certainly won't stand it coming from you, an American.
I contribute to make the world a better place by promoting things like science and ethical economic development.
For you to think peace is only obtained through war is idiotic.
It's funny you should talk about numbers. How many civilian casualties are there in Iraq and Afghanistan compared to the 9/11 attacks?
If you're going to argue that human rights abuse is okay in small numbers, then you are arguing atrocities are okay in small numbers. In which case, your argument when applied to the 9/11 attacks completely exonerates the 9/11 attackers because they killed less civilians by percentage.
Do you really think you should be arguing your position?
@kwanarchive Now you outright lie. You called me an idiot in your first post and ignorant in a later post. And your last post suggests I am immature. You have done exactly what you have accused me of and deny that you did it. And you did it first just because I didn't like the video and called them out for their simplistic and incorrect assumption that soldiers create terrorists.
BTW, the acoustic guitar sounds way better than the tele, you should play it more.
@kwanarchive "cowboy fantasies"??? Have you ever been a soldier? I have and you insult the 99.99% of professional military that give up so much personal liberty to protect the liberty of others for a crappy paycheck and scorn by people who think they know something about military service. Until you have been a soldier and faced the grim realities of "cowboy fantasies", your opinion of soldiers is practically useless. If you have been a soldier, don't project your own shortcomings on others.
@kwanarchive If you can agree that 1000s or even millions would like to cut our throats simply for not believing in Islam and that radicalization plays a minor part in the war on terror, then we might be able to agree. If you simply want to prove me to be an "idiot", I never back down. I have been a soldier, a musician, a teacher, a mentor, and many other things practical and artistic. I have lived a broad experience and will not sit still for your insults. I only look for truth, painful or not
@petertrast "Just restating the fact that NOT torturing will not solve the problem"
And so we might as well continue with the torture then. You call me naive, but your attitude is beyond childish.
You may as well say:
"We're not going to eliminate crime, so we should just not bother with police or the courts or the law."
It's strange, as an atheist, I'm constantly accused of being morally relative. And yet I'm the one with clear morals here. I wish religious people can see this.
@petertrast "Looking up your account seemed more reasonable than making assumptions out of thin air."
And yet you STILL ended up making assumptions out of thin air.
It's one thing to say you're doing something, but it's another thing to end up not doing it. This is the kind of hypocrisy that turns me away from right wingers and the extreme left.
@petertrast "Now you assume I am a right winger"
No, I said, your hypocrisy is why I don't like the right or the extreme left. And the charge of hypocrisy is not an assumption but based entirely on your actions that you say it's not okay for me to make assumptions about you but entirely okay for you to make assumptions about me based on TH-cam VIDEOS for God's sake. And no, in the context of GLOBAL politics, your views are CENTRIST, not the skewed left wing of the USA. And you say I'm naive...
@petertrast "But I actually believe in the goodness of most people. I just don't count on it."
And nothing I said should give the impression I think we can count on people to be good. So you're basically arguing against no one.
I didn't say you were uneducated. I call you an idiot precisely because you are educated and yet you draw so many false conclusions from a COMEDY SONG. I'm not the fastest of thinkers so if I can spot your flaws, you are in big trouble.
@kwanarchive But I will say this one thing. Someone said if you are not a liberal when you are young, you have no heart. And if you are not a conservative when you get old, you have no brain. I understand why you despise the actions of the antagonists so much. You just lack the wisdom of years to understand why it is unavoidable. Evil men must be dealt with and innocents are caught up in the storm. Wishing it to be different does not make it so and singing satire about it does NOT ease the pain
@kwanarchive Now you assume I am a right winger. Many of my opinions would surprise you, maybe even sound leftist to some. I don't hold to any man's creed, just to what I know is right and just and ethical, regardless of laws and social moires. i am a sovereign citizen of the earth, almost anarchistic in my world view. But some social conventions happen to align with my personal truth. Example, I hate abortion but disagree with legislating about it. I think weed is bad but should be legal, etc
@kwanarchive On the globe, most would call me a right winger because I KNOW that violence is the only solution to some problems and the fact that I happen to have a faith system that goes beyond "big bang". But i don't believe in the institutions of men that have distorted truth and created misery for millenia.
So... you AREN'T a musician? Someone else was playing in the videos?
@petertrast
Who's arguing that America CREATED the hate? The argument being made here is that whoever started it, the Americans aren't helping by abusing human rights and raping and killing innocent civilians. By all means, fight terrorism, but that is no excuse to go in all guns blazing and expect people to take collateral damage and not radicalize.
The song just makes it a bit comical and it's ridiculous of you to draw the conclusion you did about Tripod based on a comedy song.
@kwanarchive lol... no, that was a lame attempt at humor, my comedy career died a quick death...
Damn what a terrible recording. I can barely hear what they're saying
@kwanarchive No I understand the meaning of the song all too well. It is leftist propaganda disguised as humorous fun.
Calling names is proof of an inability to make a case by logic, not observations. Your opinion of my opinion does not prove that I am any of those things. It merely proves we disagree so you take the typical liberal approach, politics of destruction, attempting to discredit me by name-calling. That's how the press does it, too.
The tele is fine, you need to tune it properly.
worst recording on youtube.
no complaints about the song itself
im sorry but these guys aren't very good because their not really that funny aside from 'gonna make you happy' plus you can't hear what their saying
@kwanarchive What are you talking about "cliched talking points"? You said young boys posing as adults so you obviously meant the soldiers themselves. Nice try. And I was a government contractor for 13 years after leaving the military, so again I know for a fact that you are speaking of an extremely small minority. And again, you must be repeating what the Obama propaganda machine is saying because I have been in those shoes, military and civilian. Go worry about your own socialist government.
@Rasanack 131 people are his sons after that.