This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire show. Here's why: When there are budgetary problems, what generally happens is that the responsibility for dealing with it rolls down the hill until the people or equipment on the bottom of the heap either break or revolt. I mean, think about the fact that we as an audience have seen freighter vessels floating around Babylon 5 all season long, seen bustling entry and exit of goods and people, and never gave a thought to the people making that happen until now. I have to side with the dockworkers here mostly because without their strike, nobody in the Earth Alliance central bureaucracy would have even noticed that anything was wrong, and even the relatively sympathetic Sinclair was offering nothing but empty promises prior to their action. If nothing else, the strike forced everybody to notice and think about the problem. Another thing which Eduardo DelVientos (the lead dockworker) pointed out is that the "experts" setting the budget very likely have no idea what it actually takes to run a space dock. This points to a very real problem when it comes to budgets and hierarchies: Managers who have not worked their way up from the bottom find themselves running things when they have absolutely no clue what's going on below them in the organization. For an example of how this relationship can be fraught, I have a friend who worked for a while as the scheduler for an industrial operation, who quickly antagonized the folks on the factory floor because she was working with no real understanding of the impact her decisions were having.
My theory on budgetary "experts" like the ones mentioned in this episode is that they run their little tests in unrealistic conditions. They have new ideas they want to test out, which is great, so they request that someone puts together a team to figure out the metrics. I'd wager 9 times out of 10, the people they get to test this are going to be the better employees, not the average or the lackluster ones. (either that or they're using non-production employees) Is someone going to behave differently on a two-week mini-job than they would after a few months or years on a job? I'd imagine they would. They're probably getting to hobnob a little with the higher-ups, and they're probably also going to get treated to dinner and maybe even nice lodging. They're not testing the new system as regular employees would be running it day in and day out. They're testing it like they're at the amusement park for the day, or maybe they're just playing along because they know the test is set over a limited duration and they don't want to prolong it or go against the current. They may also be substantially more enthusiastic than the average nine-to-fiver since they know they aren't stuck doing this beyond the test period. Their equipment is probably going to be in better condition, and their ability to affect change or at least provide feedback is likely enhanced (Try telling your boss at the factory the new system is bunk. You won't accomplish much.) They may also be selected based on their likelihood of being "yes-men." When the system rolls out to production, the inevitable bugs and shortcomings arise, but management just shrugs and says, "We made it work, you can too."
You could argue that the G'Kar/Londo plot also serves to underscore the stakes of the labor situation on the station. Even though the connection is never explicitly stated, the idea is present throughout the background of the episode that the efficiency of the cargo operation in this particular place and time could easily have implications up to and including the level of interstellar politics.
Awesome setting building and one reason B5 feels like a lived in world. A great example of how a one off episode contributes to the whole and doesn't feel wasted.
I like how G'Kar struggles in trying to understand Sinclair's motives on each interaction. It's like he never thought Sinclair could ever become anything more than an ally of convenience after the events of 'The Gathering'. Sinclair proves that he's still willing to forge a meaningful camaraderie and here's where G'Kar truly comes to regret actively trying to have Sinclair killed by the Vorlon. Not because of the negative repercussions he had to go through afterwards but because of the personal qualities of the potential friend he almost lost.
I like that is mentioned that Na'Toth and G'Kar follow diferent religious teachings. it's kinda a brake from the long standing cliche of despicting aliens as having only one culture.
7:30 Of course there is also the real life parallel of what Constantine did. Except that in that case, the pretend "holy symbol" actually did become a big deal. It had a huge impact on the next 1700 years right up to modern times.
Consequences: This is why B5 and DS9 were so much better than TNG and VOY. TNG and especially VOY had plots where they more or less impose a solution, then fly away from the problem. In B5 and DS9, the characters had to live with the things they did. They didn’t get to just sail away from the things they did.
I wasn't bored by your economics/budget analysis. Stuff like this makes a world like Babylon 5 feel believable and lived-in. Thanks to the stupid-ass teevee schedule back in the day, I never saw this episode until literally years later. That really sucked, because this was one of the better episodes of first season. I also wish we'd seen more of the pint-sized beautiful badass union rep Ms Connally.
I don't know if it's just a matter of the episode budget, but Londo describes G'Kar's need to lead this ritual as just a matter of saving face, and then at the end of the episode we see the ritual itself, and there are like FIVE other Narns. That's how small of a community G'Kar was trying to "save face" with; that was how petty the issue Londo wanted to hurt him over was. (I for one would likewise regard the strike issue as being petty, with Orrin Zento and those he represents just refusing to spend some credits because they legally don't have to. I would call that the common theme between the two plots, people abusing power for incredibly small-minded reasons.)
Sad to say that happened all the time when I was the Air Force. When we got money allocated to our squadron we used it or we lost it. We would replace broken equipment and make repairs to our squadron building areas.
On the Budget front, the Current US Military has that same issue, not weekly but annually. At the end of the year each department on a ship will submit things that they'd like for the ship, and if there's budget and it won't raise suspicion it gets ordered. So when they're decommissioned the ship ends up having enough parts to under-go mitosis, usually confounding Civs and Desk-jockies. Because if it's officially written down, then somebody is responsible and the DJs are all about the mighty Blueprints on Paper this is PERFECT and needs no changes or "improvements"
This episode is written by someone who I believe never wrote another B5 episode, and who I've never heard of before. I suspect that she's a person who has some real-life connection to the idea of labor and budgets and strikes and such. And I'm inclined to guess that she might have written the guest-star lady character as something of a self-insert. I'm not a huge fan of the episode, because I'm more interested in the kind of stuff that JMS does than I am in this kind of thing, but I definitely got the idea that this episode was written as a labor of love on behalf of this random lady writer, and I do enjoy getting those kinds of different perspectives on the show's status quo. I certainly liked this episode better than other Season 1 one-offs, such as "TKO" and "Infection", but it's still not the best, and in particular it's clearly obvious that the writer was not strong on pacing. The teaser cuts off super-abruptly, practically in mid-shot, and that happens with at least one of the other transitions (where a commercial would happen). This, plus the IMO-uninteresting subject matter, limited my ability to enjoy this episode, even though it is fairly decent overall.
Just started watching this show and your ruminations. A little confused why the episodes start to have a different order at this point than what's on my hbo max lol.
I just began watching your Dragon Age Marathon and I need to ask you: do you think Teyrn Loghain is the unholy union between G'Kar and Garibaldi? Because G'Kar has the same deep hatred for the Centaury that Loghain harbors against the Orlesians yet I always felt that what G'Kar developed after that long and bitter Centaury occupation was ingrained cynicism instead of paranoia. Garibaldi and Loghain however, do possess skillsets that would later devolve into great paranoias. Garibaldi being the great detective and Loghain the master tactician.
+Oielvert I admit I never thought of it in that direction no, though upon reflection I can see the similarities. Of course, Loghain suffered just as badly under the Orlesians as the Narn did under the Centauri, which definitely helped shape both G'Kar and Loghain.
+Lorerunner I have a lot of head canon when it comes to G'Kar and the Narn because they're just so fascinating. The Narn tend to idealize who they were before they were "tainted" by the Centauri occupation. Sometimes I picture G'Kar screaming at Londo saying: 'You turned us into demons! Now you and everything you cherish must suffer for it.' It's also very curious how G'Kar seems to be mostly sexually attracted to Centauri females. I sense an intense form of self-loathing in Narn behavior and I see their displays of ruthlessness as a sort of testament of the great injustice that the Centauri inflicted upon them. Sort of like: 'We're these devils because they made us into devils. Marvel at Centauri cruelty.'
Wow, you recorded this 5 years ago. I am really not happy, how relevant this show is today. (Rewatching in HD now). Also you look great with hair, but It also look quite weird, as I'm not used to it.
Continuity is good, and it's nice; it's not needed. However it can enhance story telling, the current issue Networks and Show-runnings are running into is that they don't know how to deal with it how to use it
This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire show.
Here's why: When there are budgetary problems, what generally happens is that the responsibility for dealing with it rolls down the hill until the people or equipment on the bottom of the heap either break or revolt. I mean, think about the fact that we as an audience have seen freighter vessels floating around Babylon 5 all season long, seen bustling entry and exit of goods and people, and never gave a thought to the people making that happen until now. I have to side with the dockworkers here mostly because without their strike, nobody in the Earth Alliance central bureaucracy would have even noticed that anything was wrong, and even the relatively sympathetic Sinclair was offering nothing but empty promises prior to their action. If nothing else, the strike forced everybody to notice and think about the problem.
Another thing which Eduardo DelVientos (the lead dockworker) pointed out is that the "experts" setting the budget very likely have no idea what it actually takes to run a space dock. This points to a very real problem when it comes to budgets and hierarchies: Managers who have not worked their way up from the bottom find themselves running things when they have absolutely no clue what's going on below them in the organization. For an example of how this relationship can be fraught, I have a friend who worked for a while as the scheduler for an industrial operation, who quickly antagonized the folks on the factory floor because she was working with no real understanding of the impact her decisions were having.
Sher Khan! LOL Wow, of all the places to get a "Talespin" reference. One person got it and he approves. :-)
My theory on budgetary "experts" like the ones mentioned in this episode is that they run their little tests in unrealistic conditions. They have new ideas they want to test out, which is great, so they request that someone puts together a team to figure out the metrics. I'd wager 9 times out of 10, the people they get to test this are going to be the better employees, not the average or the lackluster ones. (either that or they're using non-production employees) Is someone going to behave differently on a two-week mini-job than they would after a few months or years on a job? I'd imagine they would. They're probably getting to hobnob a little with the higher-ups, and they're probably also going to get treated to dinner and maybe even nice lodging. They're not testing the new system as regular employees would be running it day in and day out. They're testing it like they're at the amusement park for the day, or maybe they're just playing along because they know the test is set over a limited duration and they don't want to prolong it or go against the current. They may also be substantially more enthusiastic than the average nine-to-fiver since they know they aren't stuck doing this beyond the test period. Their equipment is probably going to be in better condition, and their ability to affect change or at least provide feedback is likely enhanced (Try telling your boss at the factory the new system is bunk. You won't accomplish much.) They may also be selected based on their likelihood of being "yes-men."
When the system rolls out to production, the inevitable bugs and shortcomings arise, but management just shrugs and says, "We made it work, you can too."
You could argue that the G'Kar/Londo plot also serves to underscore the stakes of the labor situation on the station. Even though the connection is never explicitly stated, the idea is present throughout the background of the episode that the efficiency of the cargo operation in this particular place and time could easily have implications up to and including the level of interstellar politics.
Isn't it great how they bill Zento as their "best negotiator" and when he arrives he does exactly zero negotiating? What a farce.
Awesome setting building and one reason B5 feels like a lived in world. A great example of how a one off episode contributes to the whole and doesn't feel wasted.
I like how G'Kar struggles in trying to understand Sinclair's motives on each interaction. It's like he never thought Sinclair could ever become anything more than an ally of convenience after the events of 'The Gathering'. Sinclair proves that he's still willing to forge a meaningful camaraderie and here's where G'Kar truly comes to regret actively trying to have Sinclair killed by the Vorlon. Not because of the negative repercussions he had to go through afterwards but because of the personal qualities of the potential friend he almost lost.
Palpatine talking about economics was far funnier than it should have been. :)
I like that is mentioned that Na'Toth and G'Kar follow diferent religious teachings. it's kinda a brake from the long standing cliche of despicting aliens as having only one culture.
Thanks for this and all your other Babylon 5 videos.
The image of Palpatine (Sheev or Rey) laughing, menacingly at a budget would make an excellent Robot Chicken sketch
Chuckled when Garibaldi finished counting down to zero for Ivanova at the start of the episode. Love the character. =)
7:30 Of course there is also the real life parallel of what Constantine did. Except that in that case, the pretend "holy symbol" actually did become a big deal. It had a huge impact on the next 1700 years right up to modern times.
Remember that this episode actually takes place before Deathwalker, just broadcast after Survivors
Locks only keep honest people honest. If someone really wants to break in, a lock will not stop them.
I got that " Shere Khan in the Ivory Tower " reference. It is from Disneys TaleSpin .
Consequences:
This is why B5 and DS9 were so much better than TNG and VOY. TNG and especially VOY had plots where they more or less impose a solution, then fly away from the problem.
In B5 and DS9, the characters had to live with the things they did. They didn’t get to just sail away from the things they did.
I wasn't bored by your economics/budget analysis. Stuff like this makes a world like Babylon 5 feel believable and lived-in.
Thanks to the stupid-ass teevee schedule back in the day, I never saw this episode until literally years later. That really sucked, because this was one of the better episodes of first season. I also wish we'd seen more of the pint-sized beautiful badass union rep Ms Connally.
I don't know if it's just a matter of the episode budget, but Londo describes G'Kar's need to lead this ritual as just a matter of saving face, and then at the end of the episode we see the ritual itself, and there are like FIVE other Narns. That's how small of a community G'Kar was trying to "save face" with; that was how petty the issue Londo wanted to hurt him over was. (I for one would likewise regard the strike issue as being petty, with Orrin Zento and those he represents just refusing to spend some credits because they legally don't have to. I would call that the common theme between the two plots, people abusing power for incredibly small-minded reasons.)
I got the Shir Kahn reference. Tailspin was a great show.
Sad to say that happened all the time when I was the Air Force. When we got money allocated to our squadron we used it or we lost it. We would replace broken equipment and make repairs to our squadron building areas.
Stargate does making budgets interesting well.
"It costs nearly a billion dollars just to keep the lights on"
"So we'll do a big bake sale"
One of the things I liked about this Ep is that Sinclair actually looked into the Budget of B5, to fix the issue.
On the Budget front, the Current US Military has that same issue, not weekly but annually. At the end of the year each department on a ship will submit things that they'd like for the ship, and if there's budget and it won't raise suspicion it gets ordered. So when they're decommissioned the ship ends up having enough parts to under-go mitosis, usually confounding Civs and Desk-jockies. Because if it's officially written down, then somebody is responsible and the DJs are all about the mighty Blueprints on Paper this is PERFECT and needs no changes or "improvements"
This episode is written by someone who I believe never wrote another B5 episode, and who I've never heard of before. I suspect that she's a person who has some real-life connection to the idea of labor and budgets and strikes and such. And I'm inclined to guess that she might have written the guest-star lady character as something of a self-insert. I'm not a huge fan of the episode, because I'm more interested in the kind of stuff that JMS does than I am in this kind of thing, but I definitely got the idea that this episode was written as a labor of love on behalf of this random lady writer, and I do enjoy getting those kinds of different perspectives on the show's status quo. I certainly liked this episode better than other Season 1 one-offs, such as "TKO" and "Infection", but it's still not the best, and in particular it's clearly obvious that the writer was not strong on pacing. The teaser cuts off super-abruptly, practically in mid-shot, and that happens with at least one of the other transitions (where a commercial would happen). This, plus the IMO-uninteresting subject matter, limited my ability to enjoy this episode, even though it is fairly decent overall.
She was actually JMS’s real life wife at the time…
I'm waiting to hear your comments no the next episode, which i love.
Babylon 5 has great music regardless, given they essentially have Tangerine Dream doing the soundtrack right through!
Just started watching this show and your ruminations. A little confused why the episodes start to have a different order at this point than what's on my hbo max lol.
I just began watching your Dragon Age Marathon and I need to ask you: do you think Teyrn Loghain is the unholy union between G'Kar and Garibaldi? Because G'Kar has the same deep hatred for the Centaury that Loghain harbors against the Orlesians yet I always felt that what G'Kar developed after that long and bitter Centaury occupation was ingrained cynicism instead of paranoia. Garibaldi and Loghain however, do possess skillsets that would later devolve into great paranoias. Garibaldi being the great detective and Loghain the master tactician.
+Oielvert I admit I never thought of it in that direction no, though upon reflection I can see the similarities. Of course, Loghain suffered just as badly under the Orlesians as the Narn did under the Centauri, which definitely helped shape both G'Kar and Loghain.
+Lorerunner I have a lot of head canon when it comes to G'Kar and the Narn because they're just so fascinating. The Narn tend to idealize who they were before they were "tainted" by the Centauri occupation. Sometimes I picture G'Kar screaming at Londo saying: 'You turned us into demons! Now you and everything you cherish must suffer for it.' It's also very curious how G'Kar seems to be mostly sexually attracted to Centauri females. I sense an intense form of self-loathing in Narn behavior and I see their displays of ruthlessness as a sort of testament of the great injustice that the Centauri inflicted upon them. Sort of like: 'We're these devils because they made us into devils. Marvel at Centauri cruelty.'
I think strongly that G'Kar also has to deal with the whole I have to do this because it is My station to do so
Wow, you recorded this 5 years ago. I am really not happy, how relevant this show is today. (Rewatching in HD now). Also you look great with hair, but It also look quite weird, as I'm not used to it.
Continuity is good, and it's nice; it's not needed. However it can enhance story telling, the current issue Networks and Show-runnings are running into is that they don't know how to deal with it how to use it
bahhahahahah....and now I will reduce your budget:)
the argument that the goverment doest have infinite budget whould have been a good argument if they were not wasting money on stupid crab.
A game that makes budgets interesting?
*Looks at steam library filled with Paradox games.*