Why Leave the Missouri Synod?
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- What is a good reason to leave the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod? Is there a Biblical reason to leave? Why do so many pastors and laymen remain in the Synod as they acknowledge its blatant errors?
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Oh men, this is horrible, we all lutherans should repent because we fight over every difference, we should be ashame, so ashame, we dont want unity, we want to have the reason and the best opinion, we dont act christ-like, we act as a rationalized church acting as a organization and not as the church of Christ.
There are not tiny differences between the ELCA and the LCMS. The ELCA blesses gay marriages, has openly gay clergy, and female ministers, and does not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Those are big differences.
Honestly, if I were not a Christian and a lifelong member of the LCMS (which I know isn't perfect, as no church is) and I listened to this, I would throw up my hands and say that Christianity sounds way too complicated - I want no part of that. I wonder what Christ thinks. Where did Christ ever say that a person must have a "perfect" intellectual understanding of multiple points of doctrine to belong to God? I think humans love to complicate everything.
That's the perfect argument for going back to Rome!
@@AskThePastor Guess I'm confused. Does ELDONA align with the Catholic Church? I just came upon your channel when searching for TH-cam channels with LCMS in the title. (I checked out the official ELDONA website and couldn't find a clear expression of beliefs even under the link called "Confessing of the Faith" - articles not written for the layman.)
No we' don't confess what the Roman Church confesses. We're Lutheran. The point of this video is the LCMS is not, in many of its beliefs, Lutheran (read: Scriptural), and the Scripture is clear on what to do in such situations.
@@AskThePastor Oh, okay. Well thank you for replying.
There are two main forces at work to destroy mainstream Christianity, both Satan-inspired: 1) The theological eggheads who sit in their ivory towers and proclaim truth in doctrine and are so quick to point out everyone else's errors while ignoring their own....refer to Jesus "plank and speck" sermon, and 2) Longtime, blueblood, Germanic-oriented WELS and LCMS Lutherans who want worship styles and the doctrine of the adiaphora THEIR WAY or you know, just "hit the road, Jack!" and they don't care if anyone looks back. Leadership and lay folks alike are ripping our faith apart, losing focus on Jesus and casting their lots into the mess of church tradition, habits, rites, rituals and other man-made doctrines. They will all answer for it so I like your thoughts here, Julia. It's like a hospital saying only the well need enter for treatment with the sick told to stay away or worse yet, be cast out. God help them all.
My LCMS church has this in the front of the bulletin: "All Christians who come confessing their sins to God, believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior, desiring to live a new life in Christ and recognizing Jesus' bodily presence in this sacrament, are encouraged and welcomed to our Communion Table". We have fulfilled our obligation to ensure that the Lord's Supper is not taken "in an unworthy manner". Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup." That being said, I never knew of anyone turned away from the Lord's table.
It makes sense that you've never heard of anyone being turned away from the Lord's Supper if you practice open communion. That's not fulfilment of any obligation. That's the pastor avoiding his obligation to make sure all who are at communion are actually "in communion" with each, i.e. holding the same doctrine (and not just belief in the real presene). If your pastor and congregation think open communion is acceptable, how do you justify remaining in LCMS when its official practice is closed communion, that is, only communining with those with whom we hold the apostolic doctrine (those with whom we are in fellowship)? Seems weird that you'd want to belong to a Synod's whose official doctrine is different than your own. I'd suggest you check out the following videos:
Why Closed Communion?
th-cam.com/video/fpRuxCXu-Ek/w-d-xo.html
Differnece between ELDONA and LCMS - Closed Communion
th-cam.com/video/sW07U8V021E/w-d-xo.html
Closed Communion in the Lutheran Confessions
th-cam.com/video/3sNbC9tB-hg/w-d-xo.html
@@AskThePastor Sure. And with WHOM is the LCMS in fellowship with? NONE. No one. Zero. Nyet. Nada. And the last one that was (the WELS) dumped the LCMS although for specious and unworthy reasons. Fun to be alone, eh? Heroes of the faith! Not.
@@AskThePastor Interesting example is to think the Roman Catholic Church does not have open communion. You must be Roman Catholic or Orthodox to receive, but a recent poll shows a large percentage of Catholics do not believe in the real presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Host and Wine. This goes to show there is no way to determine where someone is spiritually in their faith and beliefs in spite of saying it with the tongue and receiving. The open communion is no worse for those professing their belief than closed communion, as only God and the person receiving knows their heart. After leaving the RC Church, this is heaven! I would not leave LCMS for its imperfections which seem like a bandaid compared to what I witnessed and experienced!
@@jeanmarcheschi1218 jean, agreed. Recently decided to be more Lutheran and no longer consider myself a catholic. When did you decide to leave?
Catholic churches do not check who communes at their alters. They do not make any announcement or check in any way if you are Catholic. I know from personal experience.@@jeanmarcheschi1218
I know this is important discussion. But I must say that I get nervous when I hear clergy beginning to sound so much like lawyers. Somehow the healing message of Christ gets lost and the Bible goes from a book of hope to a Criminal Code.
I understand your concern, but don't lose side of the fact that when the scripture is obscured then it doesn't offer any true healing. It is a book of hope but only to those who repent of their sin. God has two words, the law and the Gospel. And when a church body goes astray from the word the scripture addresses what to do with that as well.
@@AskThePastor 💯
What does this have to do with Jesus Christ?
Nothing
Luther didnt leave the Catholic church. He attempted to reform it, until He was booted from...
A hand full of errant pastors and a few bad apples in synod polity isnt cause to run away. If it were there would be no unified synods, only stand alone individual congregations that would split regularly.
Considering your mentions of fellowship and communion, I want to toss you a devil's advocate argument: I'm LCMS who went back an fourth between PCA and LCMS. One thing I remember of PCA is that, though they do not practice what we would call closed communion, they instead read the passage of 1 corinthians, that warns people not to partake of communion in an unworthy manner. From my perspective it was a way to instead of leaving the guilt of sin on the pastor for communing one who is not in true fellowship, but rather throwing the guilt on one who may be communing out of fellowship by way of disclaimer.
I don't say this to advocate for the PCA but rather considering the issue of communing one who claims to be of fellowship but is not, could this not be a good method while still incorporating confirmation? After all, how many have been confirmed on the "outside", but are not truly in fellowship on the "inside"? Just curious to hear your thoughts on this matter.
I think I see what you're getting at. I do like that there is a admonition to communion. In older Lutheran liturgies in Germany they had something like that. It is the communicants responsibility to examine himself it's also the stewards responsibility to steward God's things correctly. But I'm not opposed to that sort of thing.
@@AskThePastor Could that potentially be a remedy to the idea of being an LCMS pastor who is against some of the issues with the LCMS?
I don't see how it could be. They're still "in communion" with those pastors and churches that teach/practice falsely, by virtue of synodical membership
@@AskThePastor I suppose. The only true remedy is finding a way through service to explain their beliefs, as well as use the 1 Corinthians verse. I don't know what that would look like though.
PCA? Presbyterian? They don't believe in the real presence.
I am Baptist, thinking about switching to LCMS. Can someone tell me, quickly, what exactly the issue is?
Please consider a LCMS church. I hope you will be warmly welcomed. To join you would need to go through a class so that you understand what we believe.
@@run4cmt That's what I'm doing, actually. I visited an LCMS church a few weeks ago and not only did they invite me back but also gave me some free books. I found the experience entirely civilized, and was thinking about joining. I didn't know there was some heresy going on, and not sure what OP is talking about.
@@Procopius464The argument is about closed communion. The LCMS (on the books) states that they have closed (not open) communion, but there are many individual churches and church leaders who flaunt that both doctrinally and in practice, and those pastors/churches commune anyone who comes to the Table, often without even inquiring whether the person is LCMS or not.
I am from the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod WELS. We do not have fellowship with the LCMS because the LCMS has some fellowship with the ELCA, which allows gays. Homosexual, Lesbians , women on pulpits , in with the Pope. Antichrists, and a lot of faults doctrines which is damming to hell. St Paul's said separate from them. There is a lot of faults churches that even going into other faults religions so where do you stop. The LCMS walks the fence and tris to be on both sides of the fence at the same time and you see you can not do that. The WELS is correct on this teachings. Jim.
The issue is that some folks think it's possible and or necessary to have perfect unity on earth in order to commune together. Frankly, I've never heard of such a denomination or even an individual church with such unity here on earth. Unfortunately sin abounds everywhere.
Also, the truth is that you cannot find a perfect replica of 16th Lutheranism in America. American Lutheranism has all it's own unique twists and turns. As one American Lutheran professor quipped, "all the real Lutherans are dead." And yet there is still much good to be found in spite of all our sins. I prefer it to Arminianism, of which I also use to belong. I love Lutheran doctrine and practice. We do the best we can in this fallen world...
I believe in all things the Missouri Synod adheres to, yet left ELCA some years ago. Would that ELCA 'stain' exclude me from Divine Service?
If you believe everything the LCMS stands for, why not just join the LCMS? Your past in the ELCA is irrelevant.
@@shellieperreault6262 Because there are no LCMS churches near me. We are in solid ELCA territory.
@@ruthgoebel723 So which Divine Service are you referring to? If you have zero intention of going to an LCMS church, why even ask the question?
@@shellieperreault6262 I never said I had no intention of joining LCMS. I cannot join a church that does not exist. There had been a local LCMS outreach and when I called the contact number I found on the Internet, I was told the outreach closed and was no longer there. Never did I see any local advertising for it or I would have visited. You have to advertise if you want people to show up!
I think there IS going to be a split .....on a small scale... i have found our district seems to be very tight on things, whether or not they worship traditionally or contemporary in style, BUT i do agree there are districts out there that preach more traditionally, but are lax in communion practices, etc. There was one LCMS congregation in our district that years back that joined the ELCA ( NOT sure if the pastor did as well).
So, If that causes the LCMS to shrink, it doesn't bother me. What WILL bother me is if they are MORE worried about losing numbers, THEN the writing will be on the wall, and wouldn't surprise me then if the AALC would call off A/P fellowship with the LCMS, which would indicate a HUGE concern. At that point , I would hope that our congregation (and pastor) would want to remain in a tight confessional body such as The AALC or even the ELDoNA.
Just like I left the holy Roman Catholic Church of perversion. And then the Episcopal church of everything goes. If the LCMC starts non scripture and many ways to heaven i will leave them too
There’s no ELDONA perish around me. I only have LCMS and NALC. What do I do?
LCMS
I’ve got a question, I am catholic who has studied Lutheranism for years, and agree with it. I was going to convert, but there is only liberal Lutherans around me, also are some LCMS. Should I join with LCMS? And if not, what should I do about taking communion? Please pastor can u help?
Stay Catholic...don't go near the LCMS. Trust me. I was LCMC and now I'm Catholic and will leave this Earth as a proud and happy Roman Catholic. If you have any doubts, read about what happened to the LCMS from 1969 - 1981. You want no part of this schismatic force in the universe AKA the LCMS. Wave off with all deliberate speed.
@@frankconnors9497 The Catholic has some major errors in their doctrine: Pope being infallible, veneration or Mary, Mary being a co-redeemer, praying to Saints. That is some serious error.
@@run4cmt First, you have no understanding of what Papal Infallibility IS and what IT IS NOT. Second; The Blessed Mother; NOT a co-redeemer (don't know where you go that one) but once again, one more position spoken from ignoarance. Here's a hint; the Davidic line of kings and the role of the Mother of the King. Praying to Saints. Do you ask people to pray for you don't you? We believe that the Saints in Heaven are alive so we can't ask them to pray for us? Look, on points 1 & 2, you've not read the real position of The Church on these two points so why don't you do some extended research and don't tell me you've done the extended research, your reply to me reveals your glaring ignorance.
@@frankconnors9497 you traded the truth for a lie. Your pagan institution is why ppl leave. Satan has you in his grasp.
@@frankconnors9497 Rome doesn't even have a proper view on basic justification. What a poor choice you made.
My biggest problem with Missouri Synod lies in its belief that the church holds the keys to heaven.
It leads to the belief that the pastor is the voice of Jesus on earth and closed communion for anyone that disagrees with them on things not clearly stated in the Bible.
Here is the thing, my LCMS church is in small town Missouri and is as conservative as it gets, we have had great pastors and have never really had drama. Even though the LCMS isn’t perfect it is still better than all other church bodies in their confessions. Sure, there might be some problems but let’s address them rather than leaving. My brother is in an LCMS seminary right now and I can tell you that he 100% doesn’t believe in open communion, and would probably agree with your criticisms. If your church gets big enough I’m sure there will be similar issues in which case you’ll have to leave that one too.
I was LCMS for 34 years, I felt out of place in it.
I tried too hard to fit in. I was never part of the founding fathers of thd congregation.
I left LCMS.
I see no other place to go! Closed communion is something I support! I don’t see a lot of false doctrine! Are you going to the ELCA! Good luck with that! All LCMS Lutherans should enjoy communion with each other!
You're right. All LCMS lutherans SHOULD enjoy communion together. But we're not to have communion with impentitent false teachers and those who hold different beliefs, which is the case throughout the Synod. Everyone in the LCMS is in communion with everyone else's errors, as well as the Synod's officially sanctioned errors.
As for where to go: www.eldona.org
th-cam.com/play/PLgcePX5zNB9ImNzurPCQwldpAKK3gVrAa.html
@@AskThePastor How is that any different than any other denomination? They all have problems, issues, and errors.
What about WELS? For those who want to remain Lutheran... I find it to be the most reliable. I find it to be the one that will probably be the last to fall in rejoining back to the Catholic faith which is what the push is right now amongst all the denominations. Rome is rising up once again. Denominations are catering to the Pope and the Laudato Si will become an issue. So many times denominations are so focused on their denomination they don't know what's going on in the world. The main push everywhere is anti-reformation and to rejoin back to the mother Church. Heaven help us because Catholicism is Babylonian paganism if you really study it. And protestantism carried along with it too many of the Babylonian pagan traditions and just wrapped it in the wrapping paper calling it Christian. Not too sure this is pleasing to the father.
Personally I no longer believe in infant baptism so I'm having difficulty with Lutheranism completely but I was raised Wels. There's much I respect about this denomination. It is anti-ecumenical. I happen to be at church secretary at a Missouri synod and they spend more time teaching Satan Santa with no creche to be found. They are bringing in public school teachers into the Lutheran School to teach art which includes African masks and henna painting and teaching about other gods. I'm just watching all of this. I'm not a member of the Missouri or the Wisconsin and the whole thing breaks my heart. But if you love The Lutheran faith Wels is the way to go because they would never allow something like this. Just my opinion.
@@soundimpact4633 They already are if they've incorporated themselves with the government, usually through the 501c3 tax designation. Many don't see the connections between our federal gov and Rome. They are there. I'm not Lutheran but many coming to Christ right now are home churches.
@@searchthescripturesdaily I completely agree. Personally I don't offer up any kind of "tax deduction" because I don't want to fall under that 501c3 program... I give to the government what they want and I offer to God. I keep it separate. I see tons of money pouring into the church and school and then they have to start making decisions based on keeping that money. This is the same thing that's going to happen with the mark of the beast. These are all precursors. It might seem unrelated but it's not..... You can't serve God and money.
I left pop-eva for LCMS. was EXTREMELY careful. Watched numerous sermons. Chose the church with best scriptural sermons, liturgy, following the lectionary.
Pastor retired. Young Turk came in, denounces crony capitalism and other unrelated nonsense. Brings in another LCMS Young Turk who claims "Jesus would vote for women's rights" , says "Make Jesus famous again" and so on. It's like a Calvary Chapel Bizarro world.
Guest pastor reads a mantra from gnostic masterpiece "The Secret", quotes Max Lucado and Ravi Zacharias, etc.
I'm at an impasse. No ELDONA or AALC anywhere close. Tough times.
Sorry you became Lutheran to experience that. Those were a few of the many reasons I left that fellowship. tough times indeed.
There has to be a number to call to report the imposters.
@@BibleLovingLutheran Why would there be? There's crap going on right under Pres. Harrison's nose in St. Louis. Historic Trinity Lutheran, where C.F.W. Walther preached, having a "deaconess" lead the Communion service is just one example.
Try a different LCMS church.
Report this to the higher-ups within the larger LCMS body. Don't leave. Stand firm, and call for a casting out of those who seek to inject false word.
Here in Québec, the only missionary efforts to reach out to non-Lutherans, to convert and to become Lutherans, is the Missouri Synod (whether Solvak LCMS or the Lutheran Church Canada, in communion with the LCMS in the U.S.). The WELS, which is perhaps more of a mess than the LCMS, made some effort in the Ottawa-Gatineau area on the Québec side of the border, but, not reaping any fruits from its Church Grown Movement approach, gave up the effort. I live in the Canadian province of Québec, but there is not yet a mission anywhere in the Abitibi region of Québec where I reside. There is no Lutheran presence anywhere for hundreds upon hundreds of miles around. The L.C.C. parish of Ascension Church in Montréal is trying to evangelise French- and English-speaking Québec, but that reach is far short of the Abitibi. I live here, thus, with no Lutheran parish or mission stop available. I have to say that if the L.C.C. were to extend to the Aibitibi, it would be sorely tempting to join it, just to have some sort of Lutheran alternative available to me, despite my utter rejection of and contempt for Missouri/L.C.C. doctrine of Universal Objective Justification (U.O.J. or simply O.J.). I am not faced with that quandary at present, but what are stranded Lutherans such as myself to do?
Most “Christian” churches don’t have the backbone to stand up and declare false teaching as such and many others teach man’s laws instead of opening scripture and reading it. If a man wrote a commentary 300 years ago it gets placed right next to the Bible and in some ways it gets lifter higher. Todays “Christianity” resembles the first century Judaism.
As a member of an LCMS church, your words are troubling. What are these false doctrines you claim the LCMS is guilty of?
I don’t get it.
As a recent member of the LCMS in Florida, my church is faithful to the word of God. However, I can’t find any other Confessional Lutheran church near by. I’ll be moving to davenport soon and There’s no AALC at all. I can’t just move out of state.
Go to an LCMS Church. It’ll be fine.
Davenport Iowa? Iowa District East is fairly conservative, most of their congregations are confessional...
@@timnewman1172 Florida
I have been a Lutheran my whole life. Baptized into the Lutheran church as a baby. I am now in the ELCA. Can I take communion in a Missouri Synod? Never heard of closed communion. Seems like the MS carry’s a lot of excess baggage compared to the ELCA. Seems quite complicated.
The ELCA has openly gay clergy, and women pastors. They perform gay marriages.hey do not believe in a literal interprestation of the Bible. So no the LCMS is not in communion with the ELCA.
If a congregation is properly following the doctrine of the LCMS, the answer is no. Sadly, there are many who do not...
@@run4cmt Not just that, they don't take fellowship seriously hence why ELCA allows communion to anyone.
Read into scripture and/or Speak with the pastors in LCMS and/or WELS on why closed communion is implemented into their practice.
My pastor takes closed communion seriously. First time I walked in the door he ran over and asked me if I was LCMS, after I told him yes he said I was welcome to take communion. I loved that so much!
I'm sure glad Jesus wasn't so exclusive.
@@pogojet Well Jesus actually was because he had a very divine and orderly way when it came to Holy Mass. He taught his Disciples and the true Lutheran way is in fact doing the same things.
Well, Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners while they were still tax collectors and sinners, despite the religious laws forbidding this.
I was recently on a church hunt. I went to four LCMS churches in the area around my home. At every single one, a pastor or elder greeted me and had a conversation with me about my communion beliefs and if I was a LCMS member. I also loved that.
My mother was ELCA and when they retired, they moved to a retirement area, and she went to the closest Lutheran church which turned out to be Missouri Synod. She "kidnapped" me one Sunday to take me to communion. I haven't been much of a religious person at all, but it felt good and proper, and it touched something inside of me to do this. Would people call this the Holy Spirit? No questions were asked about my official credentials. I liked the Pastor. Apparently the self-important attitudes and Pharesee behaviors of the Missouri Synod are not standard. I have found this in other denominations, don't talk to us unless you are 100%. I'm like 10%, but I'm reaching out. Where that would go,I don't know.
If you're not LCMS then what church organization are you apart of?
clministerium.org/
I agree with you and do not practice selective fellowship. However, I do believe that on a local level pastoral practice is necessary and practicing closed communion while difficult in any context selective & open are I think irresponsible. I do not think the LCMS promotes false doctrine but I will admit that it appears to tolerate it. that being said I also believe it is incumbent upon any member pastor to admonish false doctrine and practice in their context. In accord with the 4th commandment, we are also to pray for and cherish our leaders and not to pass judgment on things that are outside our purview or our vocation. As a Visitor, I am called to speak the truth in love, first to my parishioners, then to my fellow pastors who have asked me to lead them, and finally to the president. as well as to the world I live in. I do not have the time or the calling to examine from a distance what the council of presidents and above but to pray for them and use the system we have in place to speak the truth in love with them should the need arise. my 2 cents :-)
I invite you to watch the playlist "Differences between ELDONA and LCMS" (th-cam.com/play/PLgcePX5zNB9ImNzurPCQwldpAKK3gVrAa.html).It outlines the official positions of the LCMS where it has contradicted the Scriptures and Lutheran Confessions. Membership in a church body is a public confession that one agrees with that body's official teachings. i'm not talking decisions of the COP, but official doctrinal statements and binding resolutions of the Synod in convention. I'm happy to hear you don't practice selective fellowship. So many pastors who openly admit the doctrinal errors of the Synod continue to in that fellowship but mark off their own fellowships within it. Thanks for watching and for your comment.
@@AskThePastor The link dose not work but I think I watched it a few years back and I am pretty sure that was the one where I discovered that you and I disagree on justification. Have a blessed day. Would love to talk it over with you over a beer so look me up if you are ever in East Tennessee.
Closed Communion almost DESTROYED MY FAMILY. My only living son's fiance was denied the Eucharist because she was baptized ELCA Lutheran and needed "instruction and counselling" before being able to FULLY WORSHIP and partake in a spiritual/physical gift from Christ Himself to His followers. Jesus communed Peter the Denier and Judas the Betrayer and he did so not in a church building but a private dwelling. And I suppose, using the warped/wicked mainstream theology, that women are not to commune since Jesus had none present at the Last Supper. Baloney and B.S. both to all the dividers of the faithful who use their power and misguided theology all rolled into warped doctrine that does not advance the Gospel nor tell the outside world that we truly LOVE EACH OTHER. I would turn non-Denominational Christian and leave LCMS but thankfully I found a parish in the ENGLISH DISTRICT that does not practice Closed Communion nor does it use the Eucharist as a threat and punishment in the sad, sick doctrine of "church discipline" as ministered under another warped doctrine of the Office of the Keys. No human, outside of the Apostles of Jesus' command, could speak tongues, heal, prophesy or retain/forgive sins. Yet our Lutheran synods (WELS, LCMS) choose to inherit Roman Catholic doctrine to do just that, the sheer duplicity of failed, human-inspired heresy. And mainstream Christian churches of ALL stripes wonder why they are losing gobs of members as the non-denominational Christian churches through off Rome and the traditions of the Germanic past. "Tradition is being forced to obey the rules of dead people." I guess preaching and teaching the pure, simple Gospel message is boring and thus the men of the cloth in too many denominations continue to create their own challenges by working doctrines that have nothing to do with salvation but everything to do with dividing the Body of Christ and sending people away, never to return. The ongoing and continued decline of the WELS and LCMS will end up with their demise unless a RE-formation in the 21st century occurs, both for pastors and members alike. God help us all. Please.
Did you leave ELDoNA? If so, why?
I was in the TAALC and studied at ALTS under Dr. Schoubye when ALTS was located in St. Paul. Presiding Pastor Hays was the most unChristian and cruel person I have ever met in a church. He was manipulative and deceitful, and lied openly at a convention concerning the Seminary. He took over the Sem. and tried to be both Sem President and Presiding Pastor, but was denied. Most of us Sem students left TAALC and ended up in the LCMS, for good reason. Yes, LCMS has its issues, but NOTHING like TAALC. TAALC was heterodox from the beginning with its so-called three legged stool. Has that changed? Can't say, but not a very firm foundation.
Where are you located in Missouri?
He's in Kerrville, TX.
No one knows what is in a man's heart. Just because someone is a member of a church doesn't mean the pastor actually knows he is a Christian and should be allowed at the Lord's table. Do you believe that non-Lutherans cannot be true Christians? I don't understand the closed communion thing unless that's what you believe. Seems like a tool to coerce people into joining a church rather than a sacrament that should be for all true Christians.
Not at all. We Lutherans believe that the Lord's Supper is a sacrament and is for the forgiveness of sins. Many other denominations view it as a memorial feast. They do not believe the same things we do. The Bible says it can be damaging for their soul to take communion wrongly.
@@run4cmt Thank you for that information. Now I understand. We agree that taking communion wrongly is dangerous - but we do not agree on the forgiveness part.
@@keithmoore3199 you are welcome. We LCMS members believe Baptism and the Lords Supper were instituted by God for the forgivensss of sins. They are means of grace to us. They strenghten our faith.
Well to sum it up in a few words (the pastor also mentions this). Communion is a confession to the Church and to the people in that Church that you are in fellowship with one another (and are in doctrinal agreement). They do it out of guests not taking the sacrament in an unworthy manner.
Oh it’s worse today. I see splits coming. Missouri is going like the ELCA. No doubt in my mind.
This ELCA Lutheran is appalled at the errors of the LCMS. First, you do not welcome other Lutherans to the communion rail. You refuse to ordain women as pastors. You discipline pastors who dare engage in ecumenical fellowship with others, such as working with other churches in town following a tornado.
Is the bible God's Word, or does it merely contain God's Word? If it's the former, you cannot Biblically justify women as Pastors. Women ARE equal, but we serve different roles. If your position is the latter, that it merely contains God's Word, we have no common premise on which to base our discussion.
@johnhouchins3156 You just don't get it. There is little or no difference between your alternate statements on the Bible. And your passage betrays an intent to discriminate against women.
The Bible was written down by imperfect men. It cannot be totally God's word because some men write down things that are not God's word. Paul's statements on women reflected the condescending attitude toward women at that time. Christ did not make those statements.
In conclusion the Bible mostly contains God's word but with some statements not true. (An early translation stated in one commandment that thou shall commit adultery.)
Luther sought to get rid of the pope and we ended up with 1000 popes.
What about reform? Semper reformanda?
True. But the structure of the Synod does not allow for reform, which is why previous attempts have failed.
This was an interesting testimony. Thank you.
Why is all this on U-Tube?
What are the false teachings that you are talking about??
ELDONA and LCMS Differences: th-cam.com/play/PLgcePX5zNB9ImNzurPCQwldpAKK3gVrAa.html
I am a former LCMS member and one of the reasons I left the LCMS is the belief on closed communion. I don’t find it biblical to not open the Lords table to anyone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I am now a member of an Assembly of God church that has open communion to all believers.
Of course the AoG has open communion. They don't believe its Christ's body and blood.
We believe there is healing in communion. As a former Lutheran I do believe Jesus is present in communion. But telling a believer who is saved they can’t take communion is wrong. I think they should be able to take communion even if there small differences in doctrine that’s not essential for salvation. Now I wouldn’t take communion at a church that’s not a Christian church for example Mormon or Jehovah witness but any bible believing church that believes Jesus is the only way to heaven.
@@karstenkallesen4811 Oh man, you're jumping through the hurtles I used to jump through. I left the LCMS for a time, because I found a PCA church that appeared to have a holy and biblical view of communion. For the longest time, it gave me a bad taste for closed communion.
It was not until I actually read through the entire Book of Concord(particularly "The Formula of Concord: Solid Declaration, Article VII"), that i realize I had been absolutely fooled. Those who do not accept the physical body of Christ only do so by using the exact same arguments the pagans used as they hunted down and killed members and founders of the early Christian church. They also refuse to use Sola Scriptura, and church history's unified beliefs an this topic. Every single argument they make was not new, it was pagan. Read through the formula, it'll blow your mind.
@Ozonelayer chidozie Tried that. Ya'll are kind of a mess.
@Ozonelayer chidozie I'd sooner go baptist
When. Will the ELDONA teach the Golden State?
This video is a pretty profound example of how the namesake of the original protester proves itself a condemnation of his own rebellion against Christ’s Bride. Repent and come home - you are loved and welcome! Abandon the “reformer” of straw and submit to Christ’s Vicar.
The pope is an antichrist.
Who might that be? The Jesuit anti-pope who puts pacha mama statues on the altar?
And you believe the RC church, administered by men is free from discord and controversy? We acknowledge that we are sinners and that our earthly leaders are sinners as well. When we disagree, where do we go? SCRIPTURE! And you? A supreme EARTHLY leader?
I was raised in my early teens (tween) in the LCMS. I was 20 when married and divorced at 24 (long story, but the D was supported by scripture to be biblical ground of divorce). I contacted various seminaries within the LCMS, AALC, NALC, WELS and other theologically conservative congregations and they told me "I'm sorry, you can be a divorced individual to be a pastor in our congregations, but if you have intent on getting married again, that automatically disqualifies you."
"So basically a Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox rule for clergy?"
"That's right."
"Aight, I'll leave the LCMS (*with on call with someone from the Missouri Synod office in St Louis)".
I recently joined the ELCA to have the 2nd chance the confessional Lutherans wouldn't give me and they permit individuals to enter ELCA pastoral office once they get to the Seminary. I absolutely regret joining the ELCA, but I was left with no choice.
When I was 13-14, I felt God calling me to become a pastor and my dreams were absolutely crushed and I fell hard into a severe depression until Bishop TD Jakes sermon "don't quit" and my local AG pastor sermon gave me through God offered hope and a 2nd chance, but I can't sell myself out as I only accept theology in align with the Bible that the LCMS & other Confessional branches agree with.
There will not be a split because the truth is yet to be tabled and any vision might be interpreted..but that's only as good as you know as that who holds the body..or is reading..Amen it's coming but " the heart " might be falling Babylon.. maybe..when you move your family from all places and dig in like Moles..(Mormon)..just blowing time🌬️💨🌪️💌🔥🕳️🕶️☝️🕊️⛪
Okay, so I see you bugged out of the LCMS. What synod or denomination do you now belong to. Please, please don't tell me "independent" or "non-denominational" although it would not really surprise me.
Got it...another one where "EEGH" member.....Everyone Else is Going to Hell denomination. Just what Christianity needs. The forces of evil are gaining momentum, even in the formerly safe U.S. and Christians divided will make it all the more easy to divide, conquer and destroy. See ya on the other side, I hope.
No offense but I would prefer to ask the Holy Spirit.
Where are you heading?
?
LCMS is so different today. I remember as a boy we would travel all over America and the LCMS were all the same. Today you don’t know what you will get. And it’s sad. I can’t find a church with old 41 Liturgy and hymnal close by. And when I was a boy in catechism I never ever heard about this business of everybody’s saved at the cross. My pastor taught that you must believe first or you’re not going to be saved. So I don’t know how this universalism crept into the church but it has no doubt this OJ as they say. And I had to quit a Missouri Synod church for that reason and because our pastor even though he claims to be conservative supported hospice which I do not and I am a medical professional and I know that they kill people. Nobody will ever change my mind on that because I can prove it. They killed my dad. That’s enough proof for me. And they are supporting things today that just aren’t right. So where do I go? Well I listen to beautiful old liturgy and old Walter Maier sermons. Today they promote Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was a heretic. It’s just unbelievable
LSB is a good hymnal if used properly, I grew up with TLH & my congregation used it until 2008...
Not saved, but FORGIVEN.
Terrible advice. The LCMS is a good church body. ELDONA is just some random offshoot
2 yrs too late..Maybe ,"heritage"older bodies such as ALCA,,,Lutheran brethren
North American Lutheran Church
I'm not sure what this guy is babbling about? Maybe you are overreacting and should not be speaking out of emotion? Pray and stop trying to divide the flock.
If you think the Missouri Synod is in good shape today, you really are brainwashed. He’s telling the truth. I remember the day when Missouri was pretty much united and you could go to church to church as my parents took us kids all over the United States on trips, and we would stop for church on Sunday and you could expect to see the same thing in every church… The Lutheran hymnal, and it was very orderly and none of this crazy stuff they’re doing today. I can go into one Lutheran Missouri and into another one today and some aren’t even liturgical anymore and that is terrible. No I am departing Missouri and I am trying to find a good traditional Luther Lutheran Church and there’s one right now that is trying to start up so I’m going to watch to see how it goes and I also like ELDONA. Harrison just polarized everybody with his latest comments on who gets to stay in Missouri, and who doesn’t because of his judgment on the alt right which I find so hypocritical, because the republican and democrat parties have done far worse. Smh. Preach the gospel and never kick people out! Only if they are just sinning and don’t care and hating the church then boot them.
@@jochimbenschneider1915 well mine is confessional so I’m okay where I’m at at the moment.
@@BibleLovingLutheran It’s tragic however. Only some are now good.
Жаль что нет перевода на русский