American's have it easy. Try being an international collector, we have to pay at least $50 for any Elite Online. Elites in stores for me at $30 each, I'd love to be able to get Elites for $15 - $20.
As someone who just got back into collecting after a 15 year gap, it's so interesting to see how these prices jump. I still refuse to buy anything more than $25 with shipping. Amazon and Walmart still have sneaky good finds
Almost every great figure becomes expensive after a month. They have made two alsiter blacks and drew mynctres but they still go for ridiculous prices. And the fan central Mark Henry and big show go for ridiculous prices
Damadiel remember the fan central carmella, I got her for 15 dollars in the box and I’m glad I bought it because right now there is only 1 for 95 bucks
In my opinion, I feel that it’s because Mattel has been underproducing the WWE figures as of late. Either that or “distribution problems”. I remember when I first got back in to collecting around 2017 Walmart’s and Targets used to be stacked with all kinds of toys, and nowadays it seems that Target has maybe to pega full of Elites, mainly Top Picks and in my case the SummerSlam set from last year. And good luck if you go to Walmart, you’re lucky to find a single Elite on the shelf. Granted prices could have also gone up due to shipping issues created by the pandemic along with more people being at home and having more time and maybe money to buy pieces for their collection that they may not have had already. Could also be that retail chains have been underordering. But yeah it’s really crazy, imo the only consistently cheap Elites as of late are the AJ Styles and Finn Balor Elites. Just my two cents.
on amazon these exact action figures......tommaso ciampa is $99, McIntyre is $148, johnny is $43, and aleister is like... I forgot but it's like $70-200
Randy is expensive because it’s the first big arms Randy with swappable hands and also it has the shoulder skull tattoos that others don’t . Heath’s figure is expensive because it’s the first and only elite to have his short hair (and he got kids)
Definitely all for the Ranking videos some ideas 💡 you may have already considered them all Ringside Exclusives Entrance Greats Elite Two packs Defining Moments Best of NXT series Target Exclusives Walmart Exclusives Best figure to fix up ( example Hardy 75 type of figs maybe not great on the surface but to use in a fix up very nice to have ) Your Personal Top 25 figures
I’m just glad that I got Drew early! Although I have a feeling we could be getting another one with a new head sculpt and championship P.S When does the Fiend Preorder 2 ship to UK?
Because heath is a part of the action figure clique with Zack Ryder and Curt Hawkins the Major wrestling fig pod... everyone wants their favorite toy collectors action figures. I know I do.
One thing I think you should have done when looking at prices is adding the sold/completed filter to the auctions, which would have given you a more accurate figure for the comparisons. Most of the ones you showed has the seller's Buy it Now which isn't the best measure of current value in my experience. With that out of way, as someone who's sold a few of these figures at a markup there's a few different factors that play into price, most of which you touched on. The biggest factor I've experienced in my sales is distribution. I'm in Australia so I can't speak for the US (naturally), but distribution to our country is a mess. For example, in my neck of the woods over the last couple of years we've never consistently gotten waves in sequential order. I first started paying attention to the line at wave 62. The next wave I saw after that was 64...then 66 and by some miracle wave 67. After that we had nothing more for more than half a year until we got wave 73 - which by the way was the last numbered set we got in my state. The most recent Elites we got were the Wrestlemania 36 figs. You might think this is a result of the figures not selling well but this doesn't gel with my own anecdotal observations - apart from a few peg warmers (which generally go eventually, anyway) the figures sell quickly. My supposition is that our retailers aren't buying the figures due to a perpetually weak aussie dollar (when the AUD was strong against the US collecting was a lot more fun and easier). So you have a starved market competing for the few scraps we get and thus not everyone who wants one, can get it at retail. In spite of this, when we do get the waves, we generally get the US store exclusives as well, but you know who doesn't? Europe and the UK. Remember the Pete Dunne debacle? There were three of them on my local shelves. Same with Alexander Wolfe, Kassius Ohno, Paige and Peyton Royce - though Wolfe came down in price when Ringside Collectibles got their hands on some stock. In fact, most of my sales have been to the UK/European market. Then as you touched on, current prominence plays a part - Drew shot up in price after winning the title, Aleister Black is hugely over with collectors, as is Adam Cole. John Cena and Jeff Hardy are consistent sellers above standard retail. Then there were the guys recently released - I have a Curt Hawkins chase which was only ever available at near retail prices on Ebay for the longest time, but after his release the price seemed to shoot up (funny aside, I saw more chase Curt Hawkins on my shelves than I saw the regular version). And wrestling figures, just seem to be a hot commodity among collectors and non-collectors, comparatively they are cheaper to buy here in Aus than other collector lines. I bought most of mine at $29 AUD (approx $20USD), though the major carrier has recently upped that to $32 AUD. That is cheaper than Star Wars Black Series ($35-$40AUD), Power Rangers Lightning Collection ($35-$39). I've also been selling off large chunks of my collection as late and the wrestling figures always go the quickest. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but it's an interesting conversation I feel, and it's good to get the perspective of other markets. So I hope someone takes something away from this and please no throwing tomatoes for meadmitting to selling over retail.
No you’re definitely correct on the distribution! Its traaasssshhh. I remember US collectors even dealing with cases not including the collectors edition specific to the set the store was carrying, the figure was just simply left out of the packaging. My walmarts & Targets skip around with series all the time as well & never really get the same stuff outside of Top Talents or entrance greats/those kinds of figures. & the sold wasnt far off these prices. Ofcourse u had your steals but thats why I included the full listings on the pages or many different listings so that people knew it wasnt just 1 nutjob trying to get a big price! But never apologize for long comments bro! I love them. Haha theyre the best comments to me! I love the discord & open discussion.
Also one thing I think contributes to these newer figures being so expensive. Mattel has some crap distribution. If people miss out of them from Ringside you may not see another. That all black Seth Rollins does trip me out. That figure was peg warming every store in my city for a long time.
Yeah they have the best of attitude era triple H on Amazon for 20 bucks I got it a couple of weeks ago with some mini cinderblocks are use them for death matches they’re sick Brad
A good rule of thumb is to look for sold listings to gauge the true worth of a figure. That's how Pop Price Guide determines a Pop's value on their site, by averaging the prices of sold eBay listings or closed auctions to determine a mean price. I would do the same with WWE Elites, but now people are listing figs for outrageous prices for whatever reason, be it the pandemic and for a time there were no new figs coming out or were pushed back.
Elite 72 Batista is the WORST, I cannot find that thing under $40 loose or mint condition, prices still the same, and that's just crazy, Brad! (Edit: oh dang Brad, he covered it)
Mattel is mainly focused on the US market, they stoped delivering the full Elite set to European shops. Some figures like Adam Cole, Drew Mcintyre are simply mot available here for example Germany. We even got not Malmart, Target... All exclusive figures have to be imported from the US, so $50 is normal. I think that is one reason.
Good thing I have most of these. Look up some names like Mojo or Akira. They may not be going for TOO much, but some random figures are drying up. Maybe it is because who knows when or if we will ever see another Elite Mojo, Akira, ect.
I'm not sure..but I think the hall of champions is the rarest batista, also Doink the Clown figs are a lot..defining moments Flair, network spotlight big boss man, and so many more.
me: looks for old elite john morrison price: too expensive my soul: aight i’ma head out also aleister black buddy murphy and shelton benjamin are hard to find in elite form
I am happy I got the elite 72 Batista at retail. Also the Hulk Hogan defining moments. That figure goes for like 80 dollars LOOSE. I am also happy I got him in retail. I think crow Sting defining moments is also expensive.
Honestly in Detroit it take forever for the new Elite figures to get here and every time when they arrive the price is expensive and that's why I kinda only get the wwe basics because they only cost 10 bucks at walmart and target
I bought the Seth Rollins Elite Top Talents 2018 from Amazon back in December 2019 for $30. I'm also from Alabama. I wanted to know if you have seen the Elite Series 71 Drew McIntyre on any stores you have close to you.
I'm just finding this video and I can't believe these prices. I remember buying figures as a kid in the mid 90s. 1x normal figure from Toys R Us was like $7-10. I would buy 2x characters and have fun. Now I'm older with my own kids who are starting to like wrestling. So I was like let me get them some of their own figures. Just crazy seeing these prices of like $25-$30 for a basic wrestler, not a collector edition figure. God if I was a kid now, I wouldn't be able to buy these figures to enjoy and my parents wouldn't pay $50 for 2x basic figures.
Also Guys!!!!!!! On the cheap side, original elite Pete dunne is down to like 45 bucks on eBay rn!!!!!!! Just got one. Haven’t seen it lower than $130 since I missed it
Funny thing is when I watch your videos I see you part swapping expensive figures and I’m like “damn, he just gona break apart a $100+ dollar version of Drew McIntyres first figure to make Young Bucks customs” lol
the top talents rollins is my favorite figure in my collection next to my dm y2j although i lost the raw tag title, i was lucky to have only spent like $15 at retail
hey bro i just want to show you this goldberg figure which says thats its from $48 to $260 on ebay is there anyway i could send you this picture incase if you do a part 2 video and showcase it maybe?
the Liv Elite is really expensive it's 60 plus I got mine back in October I need to get my hands on a Richochet Elite and now that you mentioned it im probably ganna get a older Randy Orton
I basic drew mcintyre on ebay in Britain is going for 44 pounds, and they put a wwe championship with it, so basically the figure is worth 11 pound like it should be, so the belt would be worth just under 30 pounds
Can you do The Rock and Hogan Ultimate Edition. It was like 45$ when I bought Rock, now Rock cost in the 100$ range. Hogan's prices are just insane. And I'm referring to the ebay prices
I can't get my hands on any Ricochet, Aleister Black, Adam Cole, Tommaso Ciampa, or Drew McIntyre
Me either
eBay has great deals for all of those and I got a Drew figure basic for 10 bucks
I have all of those except aleister
@@tomperel9929 I'm looking for the elite, and drew's jacket goes for 20 bucks :/
I luck up on black, cole and camapa all under 30.
American's have it easy. Try being an international collector, we have to pay at least $50 for any Elite Online. Elites in stores for me at $30 each, I'd love to be able to get Elites for $15 - $20.
In France, you can't even find basics in stores
In Ireland elites in store are €25 and basics 13-15 euro . Online it’s way more
Lol we have to pay just as much as you for elites bud but we have the basics which are cheaper and better than Elites
shipping to asia is just so crazy, but i still buy them online, i have no choice....
the UK can barely get a hold of a pete dunne elite
ONE OF IF NOT THE BIGGEST UK WRESTLERS RN.
As someone who just got back into collecting after a 15 year gap, it's so interesting to see how these prices jump. I still refuse to buy anything more than $25 with shipping. Amazon and Walmart still have sneaky good finds
eBay does as well
@@tomperel9929 well eBay scams people
@@Zhanalyn04 that's a very rare occurrence
Almost every great figure becomes expensive after a month. They have made two alsiter blacks and drew mynctres but they still go for ridiculous prices. And the fan central Mark Henry and big show go for ridiculous prices
Damadiel remember the fan central carmella, I got her for 15 dollars in the box and I’m glad I bought it because right now there is only 1 for 95 bucks
3 drew McIntyres about to be 4 God please make the price tank by atleast 20 dollars
In my opinion, I feel that it’s because Mattel has been underproducing the WWE figures as of late. Either that or “distribution problems”. I remember when I first got back in to collecting around 2017 Walmart’s and Targets used to be stacked with all kinds of toys, and nowadays it seems that Target has maybe to pega full of Elites, mainly Top Picks and in my case the SummerSlam set from last year. And good luck if you go to Walmart, you’re lucky to find a single Elite on the shelf. Granted prices could have also gone up due to shipping issues created by the pandemic along with more people being at home and having more time and maybe money to buy pieces for their collection that they may not have had already. Could also be that retail chains have been underordering. But yeah it’s really crazy, imo the only consistently cheap Elites as of late are the AJ Styles and Finn Balor Elites. Just my two cents.
It definitely seems that way. Once a figure sells out on ringside & its not found at retail, that specific figure will skyrocket!
Presumably a solid vid as always Brad
Don’t buy figs off of scalpers, good thing I bought drew when he first came out
Your lucky
I’m not lucky I’m just smart like that and reserve them first before anyone grabs them on shelves
I love your stop motion figure intro lol.
on amazon these exact action figures......tommaso ciampa is $99, McIntyre is $148, johnny is $43, and aleister is like... I forgot but it's like $70-200
What? They made out of gold or some shit?
@@THEWINDOWGUY35 That's what I was saying too💀💀
Another super expensive action figures is buddy Murphy
Great vid it always puts a smile on my fave thank you
The intro was sick man I like the burn ittt down!! Part love you mdt
Randy is expensive because it’s the first big arms Randy with swappable hands and also it has the shoulder skull tattoos that others don’t .
Heath’s figure is expensive because it’s the first and only elite to have his short hair (and he got kids)
Buddy Murphy is crazy expensive everywhere, been trying to find him and aleister black.
Same I've been looking for Buddy Murphy, Aleister Black, and Drew Mcintyre the prices are so outrageously expensive and it's ridiculous
Definitely all for the Ranking videos some ideas 💡 you may have already considered them all
Ringside Exclusives
Entrance Greats
Elite Two packs
Defining Moments
Best of NXT series
Target Exclusives
Walmart Exclusives
Best figure to fix up ( example Hardy 75 type of figs maybe not great on the surface but to use in a fix up very nice to have )
Your Personal Top 25 figures
I’m just glad that I got Drew early! Although I have a feeling we could be getting another one with a new head sculpt and championship
P.S
When does the Fiend Preorder 2 ship to UK?
Because heath is a part of the action figure clique with Zack Ryder and Curt Hawkins the Major wrestling fig pod... everyone wants their favorite toy collectors action figures. I know I do.
I cant wait for a new McIntyre figure, I would even take a rerelease of the old Elite figure
Neville,Evan Bourne
I know this is an old video but looking at WWE figures online, it's insane how expensive most of them are getting.
One thing I think you should have done when looking at prices is adding the sold/completed filter to the auctions, which would have given you a more accurate figure for the comparisons. Most of the ones you showed has the seller's Buy it Now which isn't the best measure of current value in my experience. With that out of way, as someone who's sold a few of these figures at a markup there's a few different factors that play into price, most of which you touched on. The biggest factor I've experienced in my sales is distribution. I'm in Australia so I can't speak for the US (naturally), but distribution to our country is a mess. For example, in my neck of the woods over the last couple of years we've never consistently gotten waves in sequential order. I first started paying attention to the line at wave 62. The next wave I saw after that was 64...then 66 and by some miracle wave 67. After that we had nothing more for more than half a year until we got wave 73 - which by the way was the last numbered set we got in my state. The most recent Elites we got were the Wrestlemania 36 figs. You might think this is a result of the figures not selling well but this doesn't gel with my own anecdotal observations - apart from a few peg warmers (which generally go eventually, anyway) the figures sell quickly. My supposition is that our retailers aren't buying the figures due to a perpetually weak aussie dollar (when the AUD was strong against the US collecting was a lot more fun and easier). So you have a starved market competing for the few scraps we get and thus not everyone who wants one, can get it at retail.
In spite of this, when we do get the waves, we generally get the US store exclusives as well, but you know who doesn't? Europe and the UK. Remember the Pete Dunne debacle? There were three of them on my local shelves. Same with Alexander Wolfe, Kassius Ohno, Paige and Peyton Royce - though Wolfe came down in price when Ringside Collectibles got their hands on some stock. In fact, most of my sales have been to the UK/European market. Then as you touched on, current prominence plays a part - Drew shot up in price after winning the title, Aleister Black is hugely over with collectors, as is Adam Cole. John Cena and Jeff Hardy are consistent sellers above standard retail. Then there were the guys recently released - I have a Curt Hawkins chase which was only ever available at near retail prices on Ebay for the longest time, but after his release the price seemed to shoot up (funny aside, I saw more chase Curt Hawkins on my shelves than I saw the regular version).
And wrestling figures, just seem to be a hot commodity among collectors and non-collectors, comparatively they are cheaper to buy here in Aus than other collector lines. I bought most of mine at $29 AUD (approx $20USD), though the major carrier has recently upped that to $32 AUD. That is cheaper than Star Wars Black Series ($35-$40AUD), Power Rangers Lightning Collection ($35-$39). I've also been selling off large chunks of my collection as late and the wrestling figures always go the quickest.
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but it's an interesting conversation I feel, and it's good to get the perspective of other markets. So I hope someone takes something away from this and please no throwing tomatoes for meadmitting to selling over retail.
No you’re definitely correct on the distribution! Its traaasssshhh. I remember US collectors even dealing with cases not including the collectors edition specific to the set the store was carrying, the figure was just simply left out of the packaging. My walmarts & Targets skip around with series all the time as well & never really get the same stuff outside of Top Talents or entrance greats/those kinds of figures. & the sold wasnt far off these prices. Ofcourse u had your steals but thats why I included the full listings on the pages or many different listings so that people knew it wasnt just 1 nutjob trying to get a big price! But never apologize for long comments bro! I love them. Haha theyre the best comments to me! I love the discord & open discussion.
Also one thing I think contributes to these newer figures being so expensive. Mattel has some crap distribution. If people miss out of them from Ringside you may not see another. That all black Seth Rollins does trip me out. That figure was peg warming every store in my city for a long time.
Facts!!
My Damn Toys I saw a Dolph Ziggler basic lot on Mercari earlier for $14. 3 old basics with the swappable arms.
Some of these are rare . Love every mydammtoys video. I have notifications on
Yeah they have the best of attitude era triple H on Amazon for 20 bucks I got it a couple of weeks ago with some mini cinderblocks are use them for death matches they’re sick Brad
Last time I checked Adam Cole was minimum $22 at most $35 ish
Coming back with that iconic intro.
Elite Christian In Yellow Pants
Especially alister black on amazon his newest elite is like almost 100 dollars
I found one for like eighty 🙄
one of drew McIntyre elite are 148 now on amazon
Hey. Mdt can you review the wwe stackdown play sets there like legos
A good rule of thumb is to look for sold listings to gauge the true worth of a figure. That's how Pop Price Guide determines a Pop's value on their site, by averaging the prices of sold eBay listings or closed auctions to determine a mean price. I would do the same with WWE Elites, but now people are listing figs for outrageous prices for whatever reason, be it the pandemic and for a time there were no new figs coming out or were pushed back.
Hey been a big fan for a while I watch all of your videos
I love the randy orton figure
Thank you, this has been a problem for me big time lol
They want 95 dollars for Buddy Murphy on ebay
I got so lucky that I was able to find a Adam Cole at retail about a month ago. Too bad I can't get that for a Alister Black
I've got the HOF Elite Edge autographed and I can confirm that it is worth the 120 dollars spent on it.
Elite 72 Batista is the WORST, I cannot find that thing under $40 loose or mint condition, prices still the same, and that's just crazy, Brad! (Edit: oh dang Brad, he covered it)
Mattel is mainly focused on the US market, they stoped delivering the full Elite set to European shops. Some figures like Adam Cole, Drew Mcintyre are simply mot available here for example Germany. We even got not Malmart, Target... All exclusive figures have to be imported from the US, so $50 is normal. I think that is one reason.
Have you seen how much The Ricochet figures are???!! I was never able to get one because they are very expensive
You suck at finding figures. Go to Amazon and you will see 2 ricochet models for only 9 or 15 $
I have the bobby lashley figure it was 25 dollars around Christmas
That Roderick Strong elite is expensive too...
Adam Cole is £70-80 in the uk
maybe you could give the fiend figure his shirt logo
Randy savage is another one with crazy high figure prices
Good thing I have most of these. Look up some names like Mojo or Akira. They may not be going for TOO much, but some random figures are drying up. Maybe it is because who knows when or if we will ever see another Elite Mojo, Akira, ect.
I'm not sure..but I think the hall of champions is the rarest batista, also Doink the Clown figs are a lot..defining moments Flair, network spotlight big boss man, and so many more.
Damn those are crazy prices good thing I found my Heath Slater for $6.
Everytime I get notified about My Damn Toys I say WOOO!! Btw I saw a john Morrison elite for..... $200 PLUS $5 Shipping
Love The Intro MDT
Ever since elite 69 one or two figures from a set have gone up in price
I wake up and i watch mdt
me: looks for old elite john morrison
price: too expensive
my soul: aight i’ma head out
also aleister black buddy murphy and shelton benjamin are hard to find in elite form
You should do a top 10 of your favorite wrestlers
I was once on eBay and I saw a MVP for 325 pounds I am glad I got him for five pounds
You must be rich to spend all that money on plastic figures. I love action figures but not to make me spend 100 on 1 figure.
Storm Collectable Hogan’s flew WAYY up lol
I am happy I got the elite 72 Batista at retail. Also the Hulk Hogan defining moments. That figure goes for like 80 dollars LOOSE. I am also happy I got him in retail. I think crow Sting defining moments is also expensive.
TJP network spotlight series is expensive too
Out of newer Elites don’t forget Murphy, Strong, & Goldberg
Honestly in Detroit it take forever for the new Elite figures to get here and every time when they arrive the price is expensive and that's why I kinda only get the wwe basics because they only cost 10 bucks at walmart and target
Love the video idea man
When is a thinking outside the box happening?
The Elite 72 Buddy Murphy sky rocketed to $100 on Amazon
Even the fiend is expensive in eBay UK 48 pounds
King Harley Race elite, good luck
All that Figures are great Figures
I bought the Seth Rollins Elite Top Talents 2018 from Amazon back in December 2019 for $30.
I'm also from Alabama. I wanted to know if you have seen the Elite Series 71 Drew McIntyre on any stores you have close to you.
I got Johnny and Tommoso at Walmart for 15 bucks each epic find!!!!
I'm just finding this video and I can't believe these prices. I remember buying figures as a kid in the mid 90s. 1x normal figure from Toys R Us was like $7-10. I would buy 2x characters and have fun. Now I'm older with my own kids who are starting to like wrestling. So I was like let me get them some of their own figures. Just crazy seeing these prices of like $25-$30 for a basic wrestler, not a collector edition figure. God if I was a kid now, I wouldn't be able to buy these figures to enjoy and my parents wouldn't pay $50 for 2x basic figures.
Also Guys!!!!!!! On the cheap side, original elite Pete dunne is down to like 45 bucks on eBay rn!!!!!!! Just got one. Haven’t seen it lower than $130 since I missed it
Funny thing is when I watch your videos I see you part swapping expensive figures and I’m like “damn, he just gona break apart a $100+ dollar version of Drew McIntyres first figure to make Young Bucks customs” lol
🤣🤣🤣
I found an Otis figure that is 80$ on eBay
You should do the revival WWE action figure I found out they cost on eBay for $111
Stimulus 😜
Drew McIntyre is so expensive
I thought that you would mention at least a few CM Punk figures because those prices are INSANE.
That 71 Big Show is considered a collectors edition plus it has the big eagle belt that is what contributes to its cost
Got that in December 20 bucks off Amazon
the top talents rollins is my favorite figure in my collection next to my dm y2j although i lost the raw tag title, i was lucky to have only spent like $15 at retail
Quick question would I be able to buy things of ringside if I live in England because my friend ordered something off there and it never delivered???
Sting/Crow Defining moments
please rank ringside exclusives!
Love your videos
Frickin damn it Brad i picked up every figure from elite 59 except for Zack Ryder.....
Awesome dude sorry I was late
Hey mdt can u do a video on how to make the young bucks mat and nick jakson elites your keny omega guied help me a lot.
hey bro i just want to show you this goldberg figure which says thats its from $48 to $260 on ebay is there anyway i could send you this picture incase if you do a part 2 video and showcase it maybe?
I got the 2019 top talents fin and aj for 5 bucks at Walmart
the Liv Elite is really expensive it's 60 plus I got mine back in October I need to get my hands on a Richochet Elite and now that you mentioned it im probably ganna get a older Randy Orton
The Buddy Murphy figure is going for an expensive price
I’ve gotten my son about 90% of these....thankfully at retail price
I have a feeling elite 83 edge is probs gonna be like 80 pounds on eBay when it comes to the uk
I basic drew mcintyre on ebay in Britain is going for 44 pounds, and they put a wwe championship with it, so basically the figure is worth 11 pound like it should be, so the belt would be worth just under 30 pounds
Elite 64 Rollins is also expensive as hell, Brad!, I mean jeez it like 32 on Amazon
Seeing the Gargano elite at 48 dollars breaks my heart
Can you do The Rock and Hogan Ultimate Edition. It was like 45$ when I bought Rock, now Rock cost in the 100$ range. Hogan's prices are just insane. And I'm referring to the ebay prices
I was just looking on eBay and for elite 54 Bray Wyatt it’s like 100 bucks and seven dollars for shipping
I turned down that Heath Slater in Big Lots for 10 bucks...I was mostly interested in the tag title
Kassius Ohno is off the wall too
Ricochet on Amazon
Same thing with new older Rey mysterios they happen to be so expensive