I am an animal communicator, 25+ years experience, and this was the hardest case I ever had. •The caregiver went to vet after vet to get multiple surgeries for her dog. •I was the support person who would try to help with caring and what questions to ask the vets, etc. •It took years for me to catch on. The apparent devotion of the caregiver was very misleading. Darren’s key, that it directs so much attention to the hyper-‘devoted’ caregiver, and that they take every opportunity for manipulation and control, is really important. •20 years later, it is still painful for me to realize what was happening, and how little I was able to make a difference, for the dog, and for the person. •If anyone has an inkling this might be happening in your life or around you, please find an expert to help you look into the situation. The abuse is intense, and unnecessary.
My mother had this. She deceived everyone too. I had to move away and go no contact (other than occasional texts, we don’t talk much). It’s really so so sad but it traumatized me and people just don’t understand.
At actually, my entire family was in on this. And for most part, it was sadistic to punish me for speaking up against the abuse. My sister did it because she was jealous. They all lied and tried even to induce symptoms So they look like the hero and could also play the victim.
I was a victim of this throughout childhood. My mother particularly liked getting me diagnosed with behavioral problems. Though she also did asthma, vision problems, food intolerance etc. I was medicated, put on special diets, put in special classes at school, had blood tests, IQ tests etc. It destroys your sense of self.
@@dionhalic I am disabled by anxiety/PTSD that all the abuse caused. It seriously messes with your head. I am only just beginning to piece my past together and try to sort out truth from lies. It has helped immensely to find out about MSBP and connect with other survivors though.
That's an odd twist, was her primary care provider female? Who's attention and empathy was the husband seeking? Probably nurses for the most part. Women so dominate medicine now it doesn't surprise me that men find the hospital a sexual place. Its hard to know, maybe as a young boy a nurse pulled his head into her chest and it left a lasting longing to repeat it and then later he connected the two patterns: if she were sick, then nurses will console me.
I have aplastic anemia (bone marrow failure) and need a bone marrow transplant. My best chance for a donor match is my brother, which my mom told him not to check if he's a match for me. Due to the treatments I've taken to try to fix my bone marrow, I have damaged my kidneys and now have to do dialysis in addition. Never once in all the years I've been sick has my mom ever bothered to visit me in the hospital, not even the time they called her and told her they didn't know if I was going to live. Meanwhile, she cooks and cleans for my perfectly healthy brother. And then tells all her friends how sick and close to dying I am, so they all feel sorry for her and make a fuss over her. Meanwhile, I'm struggling to live from day to day. Then she calls me up and talks about visiting her for the holidays this year before she dies. Before she dies? She's more likely to outlive me!
What a "nice" parent she is! And what is wrong with that brother ....!? Wishing you to find good match for bone marrow transplant Sadly....your kidneys already paid the price
Same story here. It sounds more like a form of munchsausen Syndrome by neglectful behaviour. My mother never took care of health, spend years dismissing symptoms, and finally, when I was diagnosed with three autoimmune disorders, she started playing the role of the poor loving mother concerned for the future of her poor unfortunate daughter.
I experienced this as a child, my parents moved often so it wasn't discovered. I came close to death at least three times from "allergies" (poisonings). My parents were high-functioning narcissists. Obviously, I "survived".
My father would go with me to every appointment. He would talk during the sessions with the Christian counselor that he chose. Everything was my parents choice. I had no freedom. It sucked (still does) and it has been happening my whole life but the bipolar diagnosis based on the comments of my parents started in 2016. My father tells me i have something wrong with me. but claims he has nothing wrong with himself. Constantly being told I "am the only one who thinks I know everything" Constantly telling me "are you taking your medicine? I dont think you are" "You're going back to the hospital" "Social Services is going to come take you away" "If you do that," (onlyfans) "then I am taking you to the shelter" "It's all for YOU"
I've seen this between a mother and her son...immediately recognized the abuse being inflicted on a perfectly fine child...but it was her way of getting away from her husband (a controlling factor there also by her over her husband) to meet and flirt with other men (doctors, etc.) Made me sick.
Munchausen by Proxy is one of the sickest and most sadistic of all behaviors because the protector becomes the torturer. There's a great doc on Netflix about a case of how far a mother took this with her daughter. Daughter was in her forties as a lifelong wheelchair bound broken person before discovering there was never a thing wrong with her, everything in her medical chart going back to early childhood was all later falsified as misdiagnoses or external assault. It was all her mother's assault on her life. This happens in many subtle forms that don't rise to the level of physical injury and trip to the hospital. I'm not even sure one can say this doesn't happen in an innocuous form in every mother-child relationship.
It would be interesting to hear your take and if you could elaborate on the idea of slow suicide as it pertains to narcs and their legitimate but treatable illnesses or conditions who covertly exacerbate their conditions. Such a relief to hear someone speak on these subjects. 💛
Dear Darren, you have many interests and can communicate quite incisively and it's a valuable "listen" because I think there is such a myriad of pathologies and they are so well mixed and differently mixed in one individual compared to the next not to mention the swirl of pathologies in family units. But when it comes to M. by proxy which you begin observing in this video the coruscation's of derangement in the perpetrator go down into the most profound and primitive levels of the personality I think. In the best of all healing worlds I'd assert that a person with your abilities and interests--by which I mean yourself--ought take the deepest sort of dive into this particular personality disorder for the benefit of us all. The nearer you get to the heart of that darkness the more the whole field of psychology and personal relationships will benefit! Off you go, please! :-)
When you return up from those horrid depths you can be reciting Milton: Thee I re-visit now with bolder wing, Escap't the STYGIAN Pool, though long detain'd In that obscure sojourn, while in my flight Through utter and through middle darkness borne With other notes then to th' ORPHEAN Lyre I sung of CHAOS and ETERNAL NIGHT, Taught by the heav'nly Muse to venture down The dark descent, and up to reascend, Though hard and rare:
What is it called when the caretaker tries to kill the victim to receive sympathy for the death and/or insurance payouts? Is that still Munchausen by proxy? What if it's community wide, meaning social engineering, possibly for political, religious, or other reasons? If you could help that would be great because reports to police, medical, and beyond have fone unanswered snd im fearful for my life.
My mom did this to me and I just moved back to my hometown she has been stalking me and I already tried getting a restraining order and going to file another attempt on Monday. I am 30 years old my mom still trying to abuse me even though I am a adult.
It's hard when I don’t know where to turn to remove the narcissist problem because cops wont be bothered....this ruins my life. It would ruin my whole life if they could.
Can a victim develop munchausen if they beleive the disorder and continue treatment for the ficticous disorder after escaping their parent? Or is this considered an effect of the psychological abuse? I escaped home at 16 but still had contact with my abusive family and continued to beleive I had been ill for 3 years. I continued to stay involved in the treatment community I had developed and go to recovery support groups with my family's insistance. My step-mom was the perpertrator of my munchausen by proxy abuse, but my dad assisted her and fed into the lies. When I finally realized that I, unlike my friends at these groups, had never really been ill, I told my dad. He told me that he had known the whole time, and at that point I left the groups. Did I have ficticious disorder as the result of my abuse because I fed into the lies?
This is usually done by older or rather the oldest sib to her younger ones because of intense jealously occuring out of their disgusting sibs rivalry. Their way of getting even. Their attention seeking tactics. Its natural for people to praise the youngest. The toddlers get max attention. As new child arrives the guests unwittingly sideline the older ones. N the arising jealousy. N their way of discrediting the younger ones. The symptoms usually assigned to the younger ones r ones which make the younger one sound to b mentally ill. N this goes on through out entire life
Totally agree. My older sister was awful. She even broke my front teeth, spread horrific rumours/lies about me, and dragged me from a race horse… which I believe to be a murder attempt.
@@joannewood6566 Right, many older ones do try to kill their sibs. My cradle was tied on a window above a bed at a height (may b my father had suspected such traits in my older sis) and while i was less than 2 months old i fell out of this cradle and on the floor. My older sis was more than 5yrs old n climbing on bed she could have managed. My entire childhood was spent with bad stomach aches n vomiting. I feel she was responsible cause much later in life my father told me to keep away from her saying 'she is very jealous of you n don't share anything good happening in ur life with her'. I could not believe him. I had never doubted her. She always seemed very caring but then many things happened which made me realise the truth.
Modern psychology fails to understand the critical importance of social status and the vital difference between masculine and feminine cognition. Munchausen by Proxy is attention seeking and status-seeking behavior within the female heterarchy, in which empathy is primary means of signaling non-aggression as well as motivation to mind many, many of her children's safety in parallel. The target of empathy receives the least aggression, ie maximum safety, maximum soothing of anxiety. The MbyP perpetrator is different only in her level of risk taking and generally doesn't outright murder the child. Her instinct to protect the child is impaired but not missing altogether. The MbyP perpetrator has projected an inversion of the female heterarchy in such a way as to draw the benefits of empathy onto herself, increasing her status and her safety. Its sociopathic, yes, but most human behavior is disguised sociopathy. We're energy transaction machines with a hidden social accounting system driving our every deed. Normal, compassionate behavior is the delusion cast by the female herd. The sweet, kindness of any female is a signal of non-aggression to keep enemies from killing her, but beware, feminine aggresion is covert and powerful, generally by rallying others to her side to get the crowd to do the dangerous deed. This is why the rise in feminine power has produced a rise in authoritarianism in the West. The legal system does the dangerous work for her.
This is a practically unreadable faux-argument word-salad that contributes nothing to the matter in hand. Your ultimate intention is to openly attack women, as a group, for their aggression, their rising social power and their control of a new authoritarianism, a set of fantasies that are indicators of an abusive male mindset (as noted by Lundy Bancroft).
I am an animal communicator, 25+ years experience, and this was the hardest case I ever had. •The caregiver went to vet after vet to get multiple surgeries for her dog.
•I was the support person who would try to help with caring and what questions to ask the vets, etc.
•It took years for me to catch on. The apparent devotion of the caregiver was very misleading. Darren’s key, that it directs so much attention to the hyper-‘devoted’ caregiver, and that they take every opportunity for manipulation and control, is really important.
•20 years later, it is still painful for me to realize what was happening, and how little I was able to make a difference, for the dog, and for the person.
•If anyone has an inkling this might be happening in your life or around you, please find an expert to help you look into the situation. The abuse is intense, and unnecessary.
That's interesting, I never thought of it happening with an animal but it fits very well.
My mother had this. She deceived everyone too. I had to move away and go no contact (other than occasional texts, we don’t talk much). It’s really so so sad but it traumatized me and people just don’t understand.
At actually, my entire family was in on this. And for most part, it was sadistic to punish me for speaking up against the abuse. My sister did it because she was jealous. They all lied and tried even to induce symptoms
So they look like the hero and could also play the victim.
I am praying for you.
I was a victim of this throughout childhood. My mother particularly liked getting me diagnosed with behavioral problems. Though she also did asthma, vision problems, food intolerance etc. I was medicated, put on special diets, put in special classes at school, had blood tests, IQ tests etc. It destroys your sense of self.
It makes me very very sad to hear it! To what extent have you been able to "climb out of it" so to speak?
@@dionhalic I am disabled by anxiety/PTSD that all the abuse caused. It seriously messes with your head. I am only just beginning to piece my past together and try to sort out truth from lies. It has helped immensely to find out about MSBP and connect with other survivors though.
💔🩹🫂
@@h0lyspiritual.sweetheart Thank you
It's so insidious. I've seen it between a husband towards his wife in my nursing career.
That's an odd twist, was her primary care provider female? Who's attention and empathy was the husband seeking? Probably nurses for the most part. Women so dominate medicine now it doesn't surprise me that men find the hospital a sexual place. Its hard to know, maybe as a young boy a nurse pulled his head into her chest and it left a lasting longing to repeat it and then later he connected the two patterns: if she were sick, then nurses will console me.
Please ignore the previous poster. He is little more than a troll.
Sadly, I believe he is being serious but it is a weird comment, I agree.
@@joannewood6566 he is being serious and probably doesn't realise he's hanging out an abuser's red flags... 'women dominate medicine' indeed!
I have aplastic anemia (bone marrow failure) and need a bone marrow transplant. My best chance for a donor match is my brother, which my mom told him not to check if he's a match for me. Due to the treatments I've taken to try to fix my bone marrow, I have damaged my kidneys and now have to do dialysis in addition. Never once in all the years I've been sick has my mom ever bothered to visit me in the hospital, not even the time they called her and told her they didn't know if I was going to live. Meanwhile, she cooks and cleans for my perfectly healthy brother. And then tells all her friends how sick and close to dying I am, so they all feel sorry for her and make a fuss over her. Meanwhile, I'm struggling to live from day to day. Then she calls me up and talks about visiting her for the holidays this year before she dies. Before she dies? She's more likely to outlive me!
What a "nice" parent she is!
And what is wrong with that brother ....!?
Wishing you to find good match for bone marrow transplant
Sadly....your kidneys already paid the price
😮😢
Same story here. It sounds more like a form of munchsausen Syndrome by neglectful behaviour. My mother never took care of health, spend years dismissing symptoms, and finally, when I was diagnosed with three autoimmune disorders, she started playing the role of the poor loving mother concerned for the future of her poor unfortunate daughter.
I had numerous counsellors I went to diagnose my mother with doing this to me😢
I experienced this as a child, my parents moved often so it wasn't discovered. I came close to death at least three times from "allergies" (poisonings). My parents were high-functioning narcissists. Obviously, I "survived".
My father would go with me to every appointment. He would talk during the sessions with the Christian counselor that he chose. Everything was my parents choice. I had no freedom. It sucked (still does) and it has been happening my whole life but the bipolar diagnosis based on the comments of my parents started in 2016. My father tells me i have something wrong with me. but claims he has nothing wrong with himself. Constantly being told I "am the only one who thinks I know everything" Constantly telling me "are you taking your medicine? I dont think you are" "You're going back to the hospital" "Social Services is going to come take you away" "If you do that," (onlyfans) "then I am taking you to the shelter" "It's all for YOU"
I've seen it, or pretty sure I have, and it's nauseating and highly disturbing. Thank you for commenting on this.
I've seen this between a mother and her son...immediately recognized the abuse being inflicted on a perfectly fine child...but it was her way of getting away from her husband (a controlling factor there also by her over her husband) to meet and flirt with other men (doctors, etc.) Made me sick.
Munchausen by Proxy is one of the sickest and most sadistic of all behaviors because the protector becomes the torturer. There's a great doc on Netflix about a case of how far a mother took this with her daughter. Daughter was in her forties as a lifelong wheelchair bound broken person before discovering there was never a thing wrong with her, everything in her medical chart going back to early childhood was all later falsified as misdiagnoses or external assault. It was all her mother's assault on her life. This happens in many subtle forms that don't rise to the level of physical injury and trip to the hospital. I'm not even sure one can say this doesn't happen in an innocuous form in every mother-child relationship.
Such a necessary topic. Excellent work
Thank-you for this information! Most helpful.
It would be interesting to hear your take and if you could elaborate on the idea of slow suicide as it pertains to narcs and their legitimate but treatable illnesses or conditions who covertly exacerbate their conditions. Such a relief to hear someone speak on these subjects. 💛
Horrific. Slow suicide😮?
I suspect the caregiver is also a narcissist.
Great question..
Thank you Darren.
Sounds like what Lucy Letby suffers from with narcissism and psychopathy mixed in.
Thank you for this. Great information and insight 💛
Dear Darren, you have many interests and can communicate quite incisively and it's a valuable "listen" because I think there is such a myriad of pathologies and they are so well mixed and differently mixed in one individual compared to the next not to mention the swirl of pathologies in family units. But when it comes to M. by proxy which you begin observing in this video the coruscation's of derangement in the perpetrator go down into the most profound and primitive levels of the personality I think. In the best of all healing worlds I'd assert that a person with your abilities and interests--by which I mean yourself--ought take the deepest sort of dive into this particular personality disorder for the benefit of us all. The nearer you get to the heart of that darkness the more the whole field of psychology and personal relationships will benefit! Off you go, please! :-)
When you return up from those horrid depths you can be reciting Milton:
Thee I re-visit now with bolder wing,
Escap't the STYGIAN Pool, though long detain'd
In that obscure sojourn, while in my flight
Through utter and through middle darkness borne
With other notes then to th' ORPHEAN Lyre
I sung of CHAOS and ETERNAL NIGHT,
Taught by the heav'nly Muse to venture down
The dark descent, and up to reascend,
Though hard and rare:
Some people enjoy righteous power so much they'll do anything to feel it.
Thanks for this video.
Many children suffer this under their older sibs.
Under the older sibs? Not parents,but sibs? Uh...
@@oceanaoushn8803
Yes
💔🩹🫂
Thank you for a very informative video.
Can we discuss Transhausen by proxy as it's prevalent today and destroying many children's lives!
What is it called when the caretaker tries to kill the victim to receive sympathy for the death and/or insurance payouts? Is that still Munchausen by proxy?
What if it's community wide, meaning social engineering, possibly for political, religious, or other reasons?
If you could help that would be great because reports to police, medical, and beyond have fone unanswered snd im fearful for my life.
My mom did this to me and I just moved back to my hometown she has been stalking me and I already tried getting a restraining order and going to file another attempt on Monday. I am 30 years old my mom still trying to abuse me even though I am a adult.
💔🩹🫂
04:25-04:40
Darren's sense of humour: person gets a new illness each tome their "caregiver" learns about it? 😅
Now we have google, this may go into hyper-drive...
It's hard when I don’t know where to turn to remove the narcissist problem because cops wont be bothered....this ruins my life. It would ruin my whole life if they could.
💔🩹🫂
My mother
💔🩹🫂
Can a victim develop munchausen if they beleive the disorder and continue treatment for the ficticous disorder after escaping their parent? Or is this considered an effect of the psychological abuse? I escaped home at 16 but still had contact with my abusive family and continued to beleive I had been ill for 3 years. I continued to stay involved in the treatment community I had developed and go to recovery support groups with my family's insistance. My step-mom was the perpertrator of my munchausen by proxy abuse, but my dad assisted her and fed into the lies. When I finally realized that I, unlike my friends at these groups, had never really been ill, I told my dad. He told me that he had known the whole time, and at that point I left the groups. Did I have ficticious disorder as the result of my abuse because I fed into the lies?
This is usually done by older or rather the oldest sib to her younger ones because of intense jealously occuring out of their disgusting sibs rivalry.
Their way of getting even.
Their attention seeking tactics.
Its natural for people to praise the youngest.
The toddlers get max attention.
As new child arrives the guests unwittingly sideline the older ones.
N the arising jealousy.
N their way of discrediting the younger ones. The symptoms usually assigned to the younger ones r ones which make the younger one sound to b mentally ill.
N this goes on through out entire life
Totally agree. My older sister was awful. She even broke my front teeth, spread horrific rumours/lies about me, and dragged me from a race horse… which I believe to be a murder attempt.
@@joannewood6566
Right, many older ones do try to kill their sibs.
My cradle was tied on a window above a bed at a height (may b my father had suspected such traits in my older sis) and while i was less than 2 months old i fell out of this cradle and on the floor.
My older sis was more than 5yrs old n climbing on bed she could have managed.
My entire childhood was spent with bad stomach aches n vomiting.
I feel she was responsible cause much later in life my father told me to keep away from her saying 'she is very jealous of you n don't share anything good happening in ur life with her'.
I could not believe him. I had never doubted her.
She always seemed very caring but then many things happened which made me realise the truth.
💔🩹🫂
An art project by you two
Modern psychology fails to understand the critical importance of social status and the vital difference between masculine and feminine cognition. Munchausen by Proxy is attention seeking and status-seeking behavior within the female heterarchy, in which empathy is primary means of signaling non-aggression as well as motivation to mind many, many of her children's safety in parallel. The target of empathy receives the least aggression, ie maximum safety, maximum soothing of anxiety. The MbyP perpetrator is different only in her level of risk taking and generally doesn't outright murder the child. Her instinct to protect the child is impaired but not missing altogether. The MbyP perpetrator has projected an inversion of the female heterarchy in such a way as to draw the benefits of empathy onto herself, increasing her status and her safety. Its sociopathic, yes, but most human behavior is disguised sociopathy. We're energy transaction machines with a hidden social accounting system driving our every deed. Normal, compassionate behavior is the delusion cast by the female herd. The sweet, kindness of any female is a signal of non-aggression to keep enemies from killing her, but beware, feminine aggresion is covert and powerful, generally by rallying others to her side to get the crowd to do the dangerous deed. This is why the rise in feminine power has produced a rise in authoritarianism in the West. The legal system does the dangerous work for her.
This is a practically unreadable faux-argument word-salad that contributes nothing to the matter in hand. Your ultimate intention is to openly attack women, as a group, for their aggression, their rising social power and their control of a new authoritarianism, a set of fantasies that are indicators of an abusive male mindset (as noted by Lundy Bancroft).