Once had a coach arguing balls and strikes. During a warm up session, went of the the dugout and was talking with this coach. Asked him which warmup pitches were balls and which were strikes. I told him I couldn't tell from the dugout, since all pitches were about "waist high". He finally got the point. Balls and strikes are hard to call WHEN behind the plate and more so from EITHER DUGOUT.
Very simple. When the umpire didn't allow the batter to go to first base, the manager should have requested Time and told the umpire, "We show that that was ball four. Would you please check with your partner and the official scorekeeper to verify the count?" The solution is never to stew about it until the umpire's mistake bites you, like in this case. Then the frustration can cause you to cross the line and risk getting ejected.
yes, if there's a question ask for a check on count. the ump will check with official scorekeeper which is usually home team if you don't have an independent paid one like the do for tournaments
When i work plate, i occasionally forget count because something unusual occurs and i fail to roll the indicator. But during my pregame meeting with partners, i always tell them " if you have different count than me, call time so we can get it right!". No room for ego. I admit im human and make mistakes. As a base umpire, i have no problem calling time to get it right . I discuss at pregame that i may do that. It is not showing up a partner. Its about getting call right. To think otherwise is old school ump mentality.
Sooo, what's the actual issue here? Umpire missed the count, but other than the parents saying so and the player appears confused nobody from the team actually asks him to check his partner or check the scorebook; either of which the umpire probably would have complied with. Umpire probably was thinking to himself that it appears the manager is just fine with the count, since he doesn't appear to question it, so goes on with the at bat. As far as the warning goes we don't actually know what happened based off just the video. Umpire doesn't appear to miss any actual pitches, just misses the count on the pickoff play. If I'm the coach, I'm going to call time and request the umpire check with the scorebook or his partner as I think that's ball 4.
Chirping about balls and strikes is background noise unless the umpire decides to hear it. If the count is incorrect, the other umpire is the most credible person to ask for a correction. I saw a video of an umpire who didn't bother to signal an obvious strike. A pitch is a ball until declared otherwise, so another umpire called time and corrected the count later in the at-bat.
This is not arguing balls/strikes. It is questioning the count. Coach calls time, talks to ump. Ump should then go to official scorekeeper or compare what each dugout has for their score keeping. Each team should have their league electronic scorekeeping app or hard copy up to the pitch count. The ump may then rule what he/she wants to proceed with. The ump did two things wrong here... 1) recognized spectator as coach or disciplined coach for spectators intervention.... 2) messed up the count. Big boys admit mistakes or can address them like a grownup.
So, if you are the head coach and you are confused about the count or if you have a different count (or have a question or appeal about any play at all) vs what the umpire is showing or called. Then respectfully ask for time, don't sit there telling the umpire or bombard them. Then when time is granted, ask to speak with the home plate umpire or umpire who made the call and tell them. "Hey, I have a different count from what you have. Can you check with the official score keep and your partner about that? I'd appreciate it." or if it's about a play "Hey, I would appreciate it if you could talk with your partners about that play. It looked that guy was out/safe (whatever the play is)" This is and always will be the best way you can and should approach pretty much any situation, I always give my respect to the coaches when they want to ask questions or appeals. The reason it is important to conduct yourself this way as a player, coach or umpire is because the umpire DOES NOT have to grant you an appeal. They can stick with their call if those see fit. However, if you treat them well right off the bat. Most likely you will have a successful game interaction with the umpire and the crew and the calls will be talked about. You will get some bad apples unfortunately. There are some bad apple umpires doing the Southern California LL State tourny right now and are cheating to make the host league team win.
Both Umpires in different color shirts really lets you know what type of level of Umpiring you are about to get. If one missed ball call is all the umps got wrong that game, they got lucky.
I won't mention why the base and plate ump don't match - I will assume one was an emergency fill-in and give them the benefit of the doubt. But when there is any question about the count - you should (1) ask you partner or (2) go to the official score keeper and confirm. We (umpires) are paid to get it right. The fact that he didn't get help shows his inexperience. Also, on the warning - I am likely taking a few steps to warn and not yelling it as loud as he did. These look like umpires that are new, trying their best and should get credit for that but the long strap on the plate umpires mask and some other things indicate a lack of experience.
It is not uncommon for an umpire to fail to adjust the indicator when runners are moving. There is a lot to keep up with so cut these guys some slack. The proper way to correct this issue: once someone objects that the count is wrong, go to the home team book keeper, try to get correct count then proceed. If the home team is not keeping track, stick with the count you have.
To begin, every game has an official scorer. Add to that the fact that each manager has a coach keeping score. The coach should have called time, asked to confer with both umpires and the official scorer. The fault is the plate umpires and the coach of the team at bat.
I was the head umpire & assigning umpire 4 approximately 10 counties. Every time a coach or fan would start complaining I would call time. Walk over & ask them 2 fill out an application 2 umpire. When they looked at me with the deer in the headlight look...I'd go back 2 umpiring the game. Mons are the worst!!!!
The minute the plate umpire signaled and called out a 2 -2 count, the manager on offense (or the batter) should have said something. After the next pitch it's too late; the umpire remembers calling 2-2, and so the ball made it 3-2. So the plate umpire made a dumb mistake - it happens - but I''d be more concerned about the base umpire. There were several pitches where he never got into a ready position, and that steal of third caught him completely by surprise. He also had absolutely no hustle on that botched pick-off attempt.
Manager should’ve called time. Asked the ump about the count and ask for help from the base umpire if needed. Lefty catcher!!! You don’t see that every day 👍🏼
With four balls thats an issue. The coach should have called time and along with the other Ump come up with an answer. It is more than reasonable. But no, jackass gets a warning arguing balls vs strikes
Pretty bad umpiring but mistakes happen. My first complaint is the umpires aren't wearing the same color shirt, that's some horseshit right off the bat.
Yes umpires drop the count sometimes. Easy way to handle this for coaches and umpires. Call time ask the defensive teams score keeper. I have never had one misrepresent the count.
If I were the manager or coach, I would call time out, and I would say to the umpire something like this without the risk of me being warned or ejected from the game..... "Umpire, I know you are the authority, but I think the scoreboard says ball four, so I think you lost track of the ball count since I did not see the batter do the "walk." I will not say any more stuff, because I do not want to escalate the situation and cause the umpire to sanction me.
Thnx,there was no warning or issue,we mentioned to plate ump count and he ignored us,,yes I officially as head coach did not say time out.I just told him correct count as I have staff who run gamechanger..Kools
Both umps should have a clicker in their hands so if plate ump loses the count the field ump has it....that's 2 man umping right there...whenever I base ump I have my clicker with me
I coach varsity baseball, I would have called time and said look blue I got ball 4 there is there way you and the other ump can talk it out because we have ball 4. Press the issue a little bit they should be fucking paying attention. And tell your players to drop the bat and walk to 1st if you know it's ball 4 which forces the issue as well.
Home team responsible for pitch app and both teams responsible for score.All teams use Gane changer also for assistance.In this scenario we(Home team)told plate umpnof incorrect count and nothing was done..So I understood before your comment,THNX
Too much pride in umpiring. Plate ump should have conferred with the other ump and/or the scorekeeper. Simple as that. I've umpired little league games, and it is easy to lose the count. Don't be too prideful to ask for help.
To put this in context…at our recent 16u tournament…a player from the opposing team said he had a pew pew in the car and would you know what our entire team….between pitches while at bat. Cops were called. Cops showed up and talked to the kid between innings. Game continued, no ejections. It’s all ego with umpiring. They tout player safety but that’s a crock.
Should have called time and conferred with partner in "c" instead of being arrogant and opening that can of worms. Horrible plate mechanics and they're not even dressed the same....smh.
@@2LAFFINS plate umpire. S. 20 yr. pro. Even if pu was sure he had the correct count, he should have calld time, gone to his partner ( never either team, btw!!) to make sure everyone was on the same page.....just as a courtesy. Again, horrible pu mechanics. He needs training.
Once had a coach arguing balls and strikes. During a warm up session, went of the the dugout and was talking with this coach. Asked him which warmup pitches were balls and which were strikes. I told him I couldn't tell from the dugout, since all pitches were about "waist high". He finally got the point. Balls and strikes are hard to call WHEN behind the plate and more so from EITHER DUGOUT.
Very simple. When the umpire didn't allow the batter to go to first base, the manager should have requested Time and told the umpire, "We show that that was ball four. Would you please check with your partner and the official scorekeeper to verify the count?" The solution is never to stew about it until the umpire's mistake bites you, like in this case. Then the frustration can cause you to cross the line and risk getting ejected.
Call TIME OUT... Couldn't agree more. Mistakes are made...if unresolved, enter a witnessed protest and play on.
yes, if there's a question ask for a check on count. the ump will check with official scorekeeper which is usually home team if you don't have an independent paid one like the do for tournaments
When i work plate, i occasionally forget count because something unusual occurs and i fail to roll the indicator. But during my pregame meeting with partners, i always tell them " if you have different count than me, call time so we can get it right!". No room for ego. I admit im human and make mistakes. As a base umpire, i have no problem calling time to get it right . I discuss at pregame that i may do that. It is not showing up a partner. Its about getting call right. To think otherwise is old school ump mentality.
Sooo, what's the actual issue here? Umpire missed the count, but other than the parents saying so and the player appears confused nobody from the team actually asks him to check his partner or check the scorebook; either of which the umpire probably would have complied with. Umpire probably was thinking to himself that it appears the manager is just fine with the count, since he doesn't appear to question it, so goes on with the at bat. As far as the warning goes we don't actually know what happened based off just the video. Umpire doesn't appear to miss any actual pitches, just misses the count on the pickoff play. If I'm the coach, I'm going to call time and request the umpire check with the scorebook or his partner as I think that's ball 4.
This is exactly what I was thinking. My guess is that he forgot to click the ball where the runner tried to advance to 3rd and was thrown out.
As for the messed up count, WHERE were the Official and unofficial Scorekeepers?
Chirping about balls and strikes is background noise unless the umpire decides to hear it. If the count is incorrect, the other umpire is the most credible person to ask for a correction. I saw a video of an umpire who didn't bother to signal an obvious strike. A pitch is a ball until declared otherwise, so another umpire called time and corrected the count later in the at-bat.
Thnx
This is not arguing balls/strikes. It is questioning the count. Coach calls time, talks to ump. Ump should then go to official scorekeeper or compare what each dugout has for their score keeping. Each team should have their league electronic scorekeeping app or hard copy up to the pitch count. The ump may then rule what he/she wants to proceed with. The ump did two things wrong here... 1) recognized spectator as coach or disciplined coach for spectators intervention.... 2) messed up the count. Big boys admit mistakes or can address them like a grownup.
So, if you are the head coach and you are confused about the count or if you have a different count (or have a question or appeal about any play at all) vs what the umpire is showing or called. Then respectfully ask for time, don't sit there telling the umpire or bombard them. Then when time is granted, ask to speak with the home plate umpire or umpire who made the call and tell them. "Hey, I have a different count from what you have. Can you check with the official score keep and your partner about that? I'd appreciate it."
or if it's about a play
"Hey, I would appreciate it if you could talk with your partners about that play. It looked that guy was out/safe (whatever the play is)"
This is and always will be the best way you can and should approach pretty much any situation, I always give my respect to the coaches when they want to ask questions or appeals. The reason it is important to conduct yourself this way as a player, coach or umpire is because the umpire DOES NOT have to grant you an appeal. They can stick with their call if those see fit. However, if you treat them well right off the bat. Most likely you will have a successful game interaction with the umpire and the crew and the calls will be talked about. You will get some bad apples unfortunately. There are some bad apple umpires doing the Southern California LL State tourny right now and are cheating to make the host league team win.
Thnx for definitely taking the time for this,much appreciated and thnx again for procedures..
Both Umpires in different color shirts really lets you know what type of level of Umpiring you are about to get. If one missed ball call is all the umps got wrong that game, they got lucky.
I won't mention why the base and plate ump don't match - I will assume one was an emergency fill-in and give them the benefit of the doubt. But when there is any question about the count - you should (1) ask you partner or (2) go to the official score keeper and confirm. We (umpires) are paid to get it right. The fact that he didn't get help shows his inexperience. Also, on the warning - I am likely taking a few steps to warn and not yelling it as loud as he did. These look like umpires that are new, trying their best and should get credit for that but the long strap on the plate umpires mask and some other things indicate a lack of experience.
Very simple . Coach should have called time before the pitch , and talked to home players to consult with field ump ( he has to track as well )
It is not uncommon for an umpire to fail to adjust the indicator when runners are moving. There is a lot to keep up with so cut these guys some slack. The proper way to correct this issue: once someone objects that the count is wrong, go to the home team book keeper, try to get correct count then proceed. If the home team is not keeping track, stick with the count you have.
To begin, every game has an official scorer. Add to that the fact that each manager has a coach keeping score. The coach should have called time, asked to confer with both umpires and the official scorer. The fault is the plate umpires and the coach of the team at bat.
I'LL except that verdict.Im head coach.
What should you do in that situation? If you don't know you shouldn't be coaching.
THNX
I was the head umpire & assigning umpire 4 approximately 10 counties. Every time a coach or fan would start complaining I would call time. Walk over & ask them 2 fill out an application 2 umpire. When they looked at me with the deer in the headlight look...I'd go back 2 umpiring the game. Mons are the worst!!!!
Every time? I can't acknowledge people sitting in the stands. Theye are completely irrelevant and don't deserve attention.
gotta love it when everyone thinks Game changer is the end all be all hahaha... he's lucky he got a warning....
Even funnier when comments think this 🤣 😂 😅
The minute the plate umpire signaled and called out a 2 -2 count, the manager on offense (or the batter) should have said something. After the next pitch it's too late; the umpire remembers calling 2-2, and so the ball made it 3-2.
So the plate umpire made a dumb mistake - it happens - but I''d be more concerned about the base umpire. There were several pitches where he never got into a ready position, and that steal of third caught him completely by surprise. He also had absolutely no hustle on that botched pick-off attempt.
Lefthanded catcher?
Manager should’ve called time. Asked the ump about the count and ask for help from the base umpire if needed.
Lefty catcher!!! You don’t see that every day 👍🏼
With four balls thats an issue. The coach should have called time and along with the other Ump come up with an answer. It is more than reasonable. But no, jackass gets a warning arguing balls vs strikes
Amity I was wrong give him first base and if I was the manager would have ask for time and check with the official scorekeeper
Pretty bad umpiring but mistakes happen. My first complaint is the umpires aren't wearing the same color shirt, that's some horseshit right off the bat.
My first opinion is why do we have a left handed catcher?!?
Thats opposing team,and he is a very good catcher.
@@2LAFFINS I don't care who he plays for, but anyone who knows baseball knows you don't have left handed catchers. Plus, umpires hate them😆😆😆
@johnharris7845 Thnx for caring so much 💓 💗 💖 😆
You do if he is the best catcher you have happens alot in rec leagues
And nobody says anything about the left handed catcher.
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Everyone blew up comments there
Yes umpires drop the count sometimes. Easy way to handle this for coaches and umpires. Call time ask the defensive teams score keeper. I have never had one misrepresent the count.
Ask your partner what he had for a count
Next time contest the count. As it's easy to clear up..
Yup, call time - ask books to be checked...etc. If still denied, just keep playing. It sucks but happens sometimes.
If I were the manager or coach, I would call time out, and I would say to the umpire something like this without the risk of me being warned or ejected from the game.....
"Umpire, I know you are the authority, but I think the scoreboard says ball four, so I think you lost track of the ball count since I did not see the batter do the "walk."
I will not say any more stuff, because I do not want to escalate the situation and cause the umpire to sanction me.
Thnx,there was no warning or issue,we mentioned to plate ump count and he ignored us,,yes I officially as head coach did not say time out.I just told him correct count as I have staff who run gamechanger..Kools
You should have brought it up the first time he held up wrong count.
There’s nothing wrong with opening your mouth, it only turns into a problem if you do it in anger.
Both umps should have a clicker in their hands so if plate ump loses the count the field ump has it....that's 2 man umping right there...whenever I base ump I have my clicker with me
He should find a different occupation for sure.
Field umpirenis in the wrong, too. Just show laziness. Field umpire are supposed to keep up with the count for this situation.
4 balls walks the umpire was in the wrong
Umpire should learn how to count
I coach varsity baseball, I would have called time and said look blue I got ball 4 there is there way you and the other ump can talk it out because we have ball 4. Press the issue a little bit they should be fucking paying attention. And tell your players to drop the bat and walk to 1st if you know it's ball 4 which forces the issue as well.
Call time
incompetence
home team was score keepers,,, understand now?
Home team responsible for pitch app and both teams responsible for score.All teams use Gane changer also for assistance.In this scenario we(Home team)told plate umpnof incorrect count and nothing was done..So I understood before your comment,THNX
@@2LAFFINS so the ump is the one that sucks,,
@jamiemcfall2523 Human error is all,We are very happy with the job the umpires do in our organization.Mishaps happen
@@2LAFFINS thats for sure,most do a pretty good ob
Left handed catcher huh
Too much pride in umpiring. Plate ump should have conferred with the other ump and/or the scorekeeper. Simple as that. I've umpired little league games, and it is easy to lose the count. Don't be too prideful to ask for help.
@30 - "Strike 1" was no strike, it was high. (IMO)
First of all, he's not an umpire. Just a fella standing behind the plate.
To put this in context…at our recent 16u tournament…a player from the opposing team said he had a pew pew in the car and would you know what our entire team….between pitches while at bat. Cops were called. Cops showed up and talked to the kid between innings. Game continued, no ejections. It’s all ego with umpiring. They tout player safety but that’s a crock.
Should have called time and conferred with partner in "c" instead of being arrogant and opening that can of worms. Horrible plate mechanics and they're not even dressed the same....smh.
We(Royals)or me head coach we're not arrogant,so don't know where that came from,but thnx for Commenting.
@@2LAFFINS plate umpire. S. 20 yr. pro. Even if pu was sure he had the correct count, he should have calld time, gone to his partner ( never either team, btw!!) to make sure everyone was on the same page.....just as a courtesy. Again, horrible pu mechanics. He needs training.
@prsguitars42 All godd,my manager was running game changer and noticed.In the past now,we have zero issues with any umps in our league..All very fair
@@2LAFFINS Good.