One thing i can say is that explaining music to non musicians can prove to be troublesome because you have to use analogies which sometimes becomes misleading to the non musicians.
What do John Coltrane and Frank Zappa have in common? Answer: Nicolas Slonimsky... Get his book "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns", To John and Frank, this was like their bible.
Now this is the kind of comment I've been looking for. If you've read it and understood it, would you say I'd need to already have a decent grounding in theory or can I get use of it from the standpoint of an ear-player/-learner?
Fascinating interview! I just bought the book after watching this episode. Downloading Giant Steps next! One of our great Astronaut Heroes, Dr. Ron McNair, who tragically died in the Space Shuttle Challenger accident, was also a PhD Physicist and Saxophonist. He was credited with being the first person to play a Saxophone in space. He was also a 4th Degree Black Belt Martial Artist, who co-authored an article in Scientific American on the Physics of Karate. This work of Dr. Stephon Alexander resonates with an equal symmetry or should I say invariance!
de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony is actually noncommutative geometry - Dr. Stephon Alexander understands this truth of music. Check out Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes lecture on "the music of shapes" - it's on youtube. thanks
This reminds me of a similar book called "The Physics of Music and Musical Instruments" by a gentlemen called David R. Lapp from Tufts University. Going out to get this book now. My hobby is sound design, and lately I'm playing with AI to create rhythm and harmonies in addition to soundscapes. Thanks!
Musicians are seen as cooler than scientists because musicians are inherently trying to create something attractive, true or not, scientists are trying to discover truth, attractive or not. They should work together, dare I say...in concert To organize things WE HUMANS create symmetries, music is a spectrum, there is a full continuation between A, A#/Bb and B, we humans created balanced place markers, and hence symmetry, blue and green have no clear line of demarcation. WE HUMANS create the symmetry by our brains pattern recognition system. You can always find symmetry in a circle since 2 lead to 4 which leads to 12, the 3 crosses of cavalry of the zodiac.
The phrase 'close enough for jazz' was originally used by jazz musicians as 'close enough for rock and roll', specifically when asked asked 'are you in tune?'
The book by Douglas Hofstadter, Esher Gödel, Bach will go even deeper and connect art and music to mathematics. I read that book over 25 years ago, and at the age of 72, I almost understand it.
in Daoism and nonwestern cultures - the hands are NOT symmetric. The left hand is yin and right hand is yang. So even though light is invariant or symmetric since it has zero rest mass light still has gravitational mass due to momentum as noncommutative time-frequency. So this is the deeper secret that Dr. Stephon Alexander knows as the infinite spiral of Perfect Fifths. Just see Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes lecture on "music of shapes."
Thinking about music in terms of geometry is great for unlocking creative ways of exploring patterns within a system based on a mere 12 numbers. It still doesn't explain why certain of those 12 tones have greater or lesser stable or unstable functions within a harmonic context. That's the real mystery of music, and I suspect it has more to do with the human nervous system than the principles underlying the whole universe.
Both. The same geometrical and mathematical laws that governs the macro, also governs the micro. That's the unitarian wonder of all creation that should point us to the oneness of the Creator and Master of all.
Very cute/adorable interviewer... She smiles and listens so intensely and happily. Wonderful interview, a new take on 2 a relation between things a deeply love for so many years, Giant Steps and GR.
@@tictac1020 being him a composer, i would suggest you first explore some of his music intuitively, and THEN eventually read about him and his compositional process, vision and philosophy. If you study first, you would then look for something that someone told you is in there and that may tamper with your experience.
I dare say that this is why Coltrane became such a student of spirituality. Just as he knew there was an intelligence behind what came out of his horn...he saw there was a greater intelligence behind the existing things that man didn't and couldn't create. Without a mind there is no searching. A mind can be true or false (in a moral sense). I believe the fullest explorations by any true mind, on any trail of knowledge, lead to God.
None of the secrets related to John coltrane's rediscovery were mentioned, highlighted, or explained in the slightest. This was an absolute waste of time.
Deh one deh look like seh it a guh get ready fi mount up afta it listen to part ah di music. The tongue is being sucked in and there's a Cheshire (Alice in Wonderland) cat smile. The sociopath is mounting up but only slightly.
I had my hand on my forehead for most of this. But it's nice that it exists: it's nice that she's trying... Although I wish my search for 'Coltrane is a genius' had a better result
A "triad" is not a "scale" - it is simply a three note chord that is part of a scale (usually a 5-8 collection of notes - i.e. major scale = 7 notes). He didn't explain that Giant Steps is based on KEY areas that are major thirds away, hence making up the augmented triad - the key areas of B major, G major and Eb major. The augmented triad is not actually heard in the head (basic melody) of Giant Steps. The major seventh chord - a four note chord - is actually heard in the first four notes of the head.
well gee, its too bad humanity and the following generations seem to fall further away from caring a lick about intelligently depth music. Unless someone finds a clever plan to make it appealing to the masses once again, especially the youngsters. What kind of people will be changing our diapers in the future? will WE even make it that far knowing that the Cookie Cut Caveman music and mentality closes in on those that care. This fascination about music may no longer exist. Jazz in general, may no longer exist. The powers that be do not want our children to think at this level! Has anyone noticed? But umm hey, SGtM this is a great interview!👍 THANKS
Every simple thing is also complex and every complex thing is also simple, depending on one's point of view and intention. We do incredibly complex things with simple knowledge and complex knowledge helps us to understand seemingly simple things.
Yes there is a Ph.D. on 2 into 3 rhythm of Syncopation in Africa and as Adam Neely points out - you just speed up the rhythm to get frequency. But in fact time and frequency are noncommutative since 2 does not go into 3. So the "circle of fifths" is actually a Pentatonic infinite spiral of fifths and Perfect Fourths. 2/3 as the Undertone is C to F while 3/2 is C to G as the overtone. This means the octave can not be contained as spatial geometry. there is a negative time from the future as negentropy. The ancients of Africa already knew this truth - see my "ancient advanced acoustic alchemy" for details.
Eric Dollard is still stuck in using logaritms. Watch Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes lecture, "Music of Shapes" - the truth of music is noncommutative phase. So if you read Stephon Alexander's book he cites de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony that is based on the truth of noncommutative phase of music.
Here at the behest of my TikTok followers after talking about Coletrane changes! I have been pleasantly informed, and happy to see I wasn’t wrong in my philosophy of sound & light
This guy is way late. Johannes Kepler discovered physical harmonies in planetary motion and wrote about it in Harmonices Mundi (Music of the Spheres) in 1619.
I feel a little bit bad saying this, because this guy seems like a great guy, and ernest in his quest, but I know high school math and a bit about Coltrane, having learned Giant Steps note for note off of the vinyl album which I practically wore out as a teen. The relationship between Einstein and 'Trane is apples and oranges. The analogy is pseudo science. Sorry. The hippest way it was taught to me was that the tune straddles B Eb and G. 3 key centres dividing the octave into 3. The so called augmented scale B D D# F# G A# relates. But Coltrane's solo doesn't use the augmented scale, but rather uses II V I 's in the main keys. I think it misses the point to compare an apple and an orange. It's beautiful, just as it is. It doesn't need any half baked mathematical analogy. Just go listen to it.
One thing i can say is that explaining music to non musicians can prove to be troublesome because you have to use analogies which sometimes becomes misleading to the non musicians.
So true 😂😂😂😂
this is perfectly plausible hypothesis
Yeah, a lot of this video is just music thoery
What do John Coltrane and Frank Zappa have in common? Answer: Nicolas Slonimsky... Get his book "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns", To John and Frank, this was like their bible.
Now this is the kind of comment I've been looking for. If you've read it and understood it, would you say I'd need to already have a decent grounding in theory or can I get use of it from the standpoint of an ear-player/-learner?
Thanks, got a new book to get
Thank you so much for the recommendation
Justin Higgs thanks man
@@tictac1020 You all guys blow me away. Have been a huge jazz fan since teens but never dreamed of all this intellect and camaraderie.
Only 7.5k views...
People need to get their priorities straight
That's what happens when you have so much going on in the world that you're connected to, no one knows who they are or what they want anymore.
Why she be looking like ;V wheneer he speaking.
After reading this, every time the camera pans to her i cringe lmaoo
@@urielsosa6231 She's smart, and just enamored with him. It's fun to learn!
@@urielsosa6231 I know, right?
She's dumbfounded because she found someone who made her realize she's dumb.
What an amazing conversation. Both are very intelligent people, and the subject presented is fascinating.
Fascinating interview! I just bought the book after watching this episode. Downloading Giant Steps next! One of our great Astronaut Heroes, Dr. Ron McNair, who tragically died in the Space Shuttle Challenger accident, was also a PhD Physicist and Saxophonist. He was credited with being the first person to play a Saxophone in space. He was also a 4th Degree Black Belt Martial Artist, who co-authored an article in Scientific American on the Physics of Karate. This work of Dr. Stephon Alexander resonates with an equal symmetry or should I say invariance!
de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony is actually noncommutative geometry - Dr. Stephon Alexander understands this truth of music. Check out Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes lecture on "the music of shapes" - it's on youtube. thanks
I know it is kind of off topic but does anybody know a good place to stream newly released series online ?
@Ralph Jayceon i watch on Flixportal. Just google for it :)
@Nikolai Gerardo thank you, I signed up and it seems to work :) I really appreciate it !!
@Ralph Jayceon you are welcome =)
This reminds me of a similar book called "The Physics of Music and Musical Instruments" by a gentlemen called David R. Lapp from Tufts University. Going out to get this book now. My hobby is sound design, and lately I'm playing with AI to create rhythm and harmonies in addition to soundscapes. Thanks!
Brad Landry how has using AI gone for you?
This is amazing. I love music and I do IT and would love to hear more about your hobby. Can we email each other?
Do you have some examples of your work? My friend is fascinated by ai music
Huge John Coltrane fan this went right under my nose. Better late than never.
Musicians are seen as cooler than scientists because musicians are inherently trying to create something attractive, true or not, scientists are trying to discover truth, attractive or not. They should work together, dare I say...in concert
To organize things WE HUMANS create symmetries, music is a spectrum, there is a full continuation between A, A#/Bb and B, we humans created balanced place markers, and hence symmetry, blue and green have no clear line of demarcation. WE HUMANS create the symmetry by our brains pattern recognition system. You can always find symmetry in a circle since 2 lead to 4 which leads to 12, the 3 crosses of cavalry of the zodiac.
You can learn a lot by mixing disciplines, I'd say.
I am so glad to hear a man such as this or any of us following up on Elder Coltrane and Elder Yusuf Lateefs research and study ☝🏽💖
God spoke the world into existence.... Sound waves ( all glory to the most high) y'all read the Bible!!
No wonder I had trouble with Giant Steps. I never took physics.
The phrase 'close enough for jazz' was originally used by jazz musicians as 'close enough for rock and roll', specifically when asked asked 'are you in tune?'
The book by Douglas Hofstadter, Esher Gödel, Bach will go even deeper and connect art and music to mathematics. I read that book over 25 years ago, and at the age of 72, I almost understand it.
What a great interview, not only as a life long Coltrane fan, but so much more, e.g., turning lemons into lemonade... love it.
This was an incredible watch. Respect to both speakers here. Also 24:19 was kind of hilarious!
"That is a moment to teach"... That's excellence!
Why is it that no one will recogn art and science as the same body/thing/shit???
In Coltrane we Trust!!
no friend, we trust in the one that gave him the gift - God through His Son Jesus Christ
@@1969sdh no we do not
in Daoism and nonwestern cultures - the hands are NOT symmetric. The left hand is yin and right hand is yang. So even though light is invariant or symmetric since it has zero rest mass light still has gravitational mass due to momentum as noncommutative time-frequency. So this is the deeper secret that Dr. Stephon Alexander knows as the infinite spiral of Perfect Fifths. Just see Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes lecture on "music of shapes."
TLDR : Coltrane is highly accomplished. Gobbledygook. Flirting. You're welcome.
I'd love to meet this musician/physicist in person -- he's actually exploring the relationship between music and science.
Thinking about music in terms of geometry is great for unlocking creative ways of exploring patterns within a system based on a mere 12 numbers. It still doesn't explain why certain of those 12 tones have greater or lesser stable or unstable functions within a harmonic context. That's the real mystery of music, and I suspect it has more to do with the human nervous system than the principles underlying the whole universe.
Both. The same geometrical and mathematical laws that governs the macro, also governs the micro.
That's the unitarian wonder of all creation that should point us to the oneness of the Creator and Master of all.
@@musamusashi! (i wanted to say it) :P
i will anyway: why not both?
:)
Live and learn, there is no end in Physics, and in Musica!!! Life!! gives us all! Greetings from Guatemala city!!
Very informative. I bought the book. Have to get to reading it. I also play the saxophone so this resonates with me on many levels.
This is beautiful. God truly created music 🥰. Music, algorithms, sound waves, music frequencies, rhythm, emotion 😍.
Very cute/adorable interviewer... She smiles and listens so intensely and happily. Wonderful interview, a new take on 2 a relation between things a deeply love for so many years, Giant Steps and GR.
A. Scriabin was also irresistibly drawn to these subtle but fundamental truths.
Further reading suggestions on this person?
Justin Higgs Google “The Scriabin Society of America”and Faubion Bowers epic biography of the composer which is the best source, I believe. Thx!☮️
I performed Scriabin in church
@@tictac1020 being him a composer, i would suggest you first explore some of his music intuitively, and THEN eventually read about him and his compositional process, vision and philosophy. If you study first, you would then look for something that someone told you is in there and that may tamper with your experience.
He was Phrasing "Fascinating Baby"...tho Cloaking it with a Nappy Change ...lol
I dare say that this is why Coltrane became such a student of spirituality. Just as he knew there was an intelligence behind what came out of his horn...he saw there was a greater intelligence behind the existing things that man didn't and couldn't create. Without a mind there is no searching. A mind can be true or false (in a moral sense). I believe the fullest explorations by any true mind, on any trail of knowledge, lead to God.
Very interesting interview. Certainly makes you think...
None of the secrets related to John coltrane's rediscovery were mentioned, highlighted, or explained in the slightest. This was an absolute waste of time.
Thank you Professor...I have been in far too many classes where the instructor does not want any questions from the student especially feedback.
Hype - BS it's all like the Miles thing 👎 Sure he was a great player but there were many many more.
Most excellent. A proper Sunday inspiration.
Thank you.
Deh one deh look like seh it a guh get ready fi mount up afta it listen to part ah di music. The tongue is being sucked in and there's a Cheshire (Alice in Wonderland) cat smile. The sociopath is mounting up but only slightly.
This channel should be retitled pseudoscience goes to the movies.
Sir Stephon🙏🙏🙏you are my guru, thank you for saving my faith
Jazz is patterns PLUS Intuition
I had my hand on my forehead for most of this. But it's nice that it exists: it's nice that she's trying... Although I wish my search for 'Coltrane is a genius' had a better result
14.50 was a good point though I guess. Coltrane's mistakes are worth discussing though. He's a saint, right?
great show, thanks
So John Coltrane is like Einstein only because he played an augmented triad, and made a drawing of such a triad in a circle? Disappointing!
A "triad" is not a "scale" - it is simply a three note chord that is part of a scale (usually a 5-8 collection of notes - i.e. major scale = 7 notes). He didn't explain that Giant Steps is based on KEY areas that are major thirds away, hence making up the augmented triad - the key areas of B major, G major and Eb major. The augmented triad is not actually heard in the head (basic melody) of Giant Steps. The major seventh chord - a four note chord - is actually heard in the first four notes of the head.
well gee, its too bad humanity and the following generations seem to fall further away from caring a lick about intelligently depth music. Unless someone finds a clever plan to make it appealing to the masses once again, especially the youngsters. What kind of people will be changing our diapers in the future? will WE even make it that far knowing that the Cookie Cut Caveman music and mentality closes in on those that care. This fascination about music may no longer exist. Jazz in general, may no longer exist. The powers that be do not want our children to think at this level! Has anyone noticed? But umm hey, SGtM this is a great interview!👍 THANKS
Every simple thing is also complex and every complex thing is also simple, depending on one's point of view and intention. We do incredibly complex things with simple knowledge and complex knowledge helps us to understand seemingly simple things.
“There is geometry in the humming of the strings. There is music in the spacing of the spheres. ”
― Pythagoras
i think some of these african people have already discovered but he was the fIrst to bring it out and explain it to the world
What do you mean?
sounds very discriminating my friend
Exactly we do everything to rhythms and patterns
Turn that think into a definite. It has already been done by the black skin.
Yes there is a Ph.D. on 2 into 3 rhythm of Syncopation in Africa and as Adam Neely points out - you just speed up the rhythm to get frequency. But in fact time and frequency are noncommutative since 2 does not go into 3. So the "circle of fifths" is actually a Pentatonic infinite spiral of fifths and Perfect Fourths. 2/3 as the Undertone is C to F while 3/2 is C to G as the overtone. This means the octave can not be contained as spatial geometry. there is a negative time from the future as negentropy. The ancients of Africa already knew this truth - see my "ancient advanced acoustic alchemy" for details.
Lol
This is extremely fantastic and very under viewed! The algorithm can work great!
Bach is the Tesla of music- Eric Dollard
Bach*?
Edison is the guy who steals your song and markets it as his own with his connections.
Eric Dollard is still stuck in using logaritms. Watch Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes lecture, "Music of Shapes" - the truth of music is noncommutative phase. So if you read Stephon Alexander's book he cites de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony that is based on the truth of noncommutative phase of music.
@@halasimov1362 yes!
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 thank you 🙏
excellent question 8:28 on behalf of the show host interviewer
2:34 if this was any other video this is the moment when it would change
this chick is so cute. I like how she says "is it really?!?"
Who's the interviewer 🥰
Stephen Alexender is next to Newland
great interviewer!
I like the question she ask
maybe stick to cosmology bro
Are you the famous jazz pianist Richie Beirach?
@@rightchordleadership i am richie beirach
@@richiebeirach3671 Very cool! I just read Mike B’s bio by Bill M and you’re all over it. 🎵
So you’re not buying what this professor is selling?
no ,not buying it ,,@@rightchordleadership
love your work!!
anil mangal?
I couldn't even watch the whole thing. There's no way this woman is not a reptilian.
Trying to keep the flirtation controlled this female.
Here at the behest of my TikTok followers after talking about Coletrane changes!
I have been pleasantly informed, and happy to see I wasn’t wrong in my philosophy of sound & light
This guy is way late. Johannes Kepler discovered physical harmonies in planetary motion and wrote about it in Harmonices Mundi (Music of the Spheres) in 1619.
I feel a little bit bad saying this, because this guy seems like a great guy, and ernest in his quest, but I know high school math and a bit about Coltrane, having learned Giant Steps note for note off of the vinyl album which I practically wore out as a teen. The relationship between Einstein and 'Trane is apples and oranges. The analogy is pseudo science. Sorry. The hippest way it was taught to me was that the tune straddles B Eb and G. 3 key centres dividing the octave into 3. The so called augmented scale B D D# F# G A# relates. But Coltrane's solo doesn't use the augmented scale, but rather uses II V I 's in the main keys. I think it misses the point to compare an apple and an orange. It's beautiful, just as it is. It doesn't need any half baked mathematical analogy. Just go listen to it.
More of this please, TH-cam.