Ursula Le Guin and the Horror of Utopia
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Imagine you’re driving a runaway trolley. You can’t stop it. You see it hurtling towards five people who are unable to get out of the way in time. You’re powerless to do anything, but then you see - there’s a diversion in the tracks! If you pull the lever in front of you, you can divert the trolley away from the five people, sparing their lives. But down the other track is one person, who also won’t be able to get out of the way in time. If you choose to pull the lever, you save five, but kill one.
This is the ethical dilemma at the heart of Ursula Le Guin’s iconic short story, 'The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas', but rather than a philosophical experiment, this is a heart-breaking piece of story-telling that leaves its readers undone, and forces us to consider: in the face of unspeakable evil, can we (and should we) walk away?
Written, presented, and edited by Rosie Whitcombe
@books_ncats
Directed, produced, and edited by Matty Phillips
@ma_ps_
mphotos.uk
Bibliography
Bauman, Christopher W., McGraw, A. Peter, Bartels, Daniel M., and Warren, Caleb, 'Revisiting External Validity: Concerns about Trolley Problems and Other Sacrificial Dilemmas in Moral Psychology', Social and Personality Psychology Compass, 8(9), (2014) 536-54
D'Olimpio, Laura, 'The trolley dilemma: would you kill one person to save five?', theconversatio...
Le Guin, Ursula, 'The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas', The Unreal & The Real, Selected Stories Volume 2, Outer Space, Inner Lands (Gollancz, 2015)
When I was a child just starting to realise the terrible unfairness of the world, my parents taught me that the only acceptable answer to 'are we allowed to sacrifice a child to save the world?' is 'yes - provided I am that child'. What they meant is that you are never, ever, allowed to make the choice for someone else to suffer - if you think that level of suffering is acceptable, YOU should be the one to bear it. That lesson came to mind when I first read Le Guin's story - door number four is to let out the child, and to take its place in the cellar. If only there was a clear equivalent to this in our world.
There is. Give your excesses to those who lack necessity. That's the most direct and easy way to share struggle, share your resources with those around you.
You can share in the discomfort of a smaller-than-ideal dinner so that the child in the cell eats at all.
Le Guin was an Anarchist, and understood well that society can only see change after the people trying to change it change themselves from it. You or I sharing a meal with someone who has nothing is where it all starts. And one by one we can all get the strength to walk away from Omelas and rely on eachother instead of the utopia.
That’s a very weird thing your parents taught you, because it wouldn’t be right even if you chose it for yourself
Dark Souls is about tricking people into taking the childs place instead of letting them out
@@Jane-oz7pp Thanks for your insightful comment! I have thought about it a bit more, and I guess the reason for me not recognising that as a clear equivalent is that, to make a substantial difference, a lot of people have to be willing and able to make that choice - and I haven't seen that happen so far. Of course, every single person who does choose to share in the discomfort of those who have less helps, and I'm definitely in favour of that - but it's not quite the same as all suffering being resolved by one person's sacrifice. I guess I was trying to say that the real world is a little more complicated, but thank you for pointing out that that is in no way a reason not to try, and do what we can.
@@kj7067I was thinking along the same lines when I read that comment. I think at our current stage of economic distribution, while it’s not useless to share your small amount of food with someone who has none, it is a short-term solution to a systemic problem that allows billionaires to exist. Sharing an ounce of water with another is good, but breaking the dam would do far more good. Not to say that making major systemic change is as easy as sharing, nor that sharing is always easy. Having said all that, it’s basically just to agree with you. It’s complicated.
I wrote to Ursula K. LeGuin when I was in high school, specifically in reference to this story, and SHE WROTE ME BACK! 🥰
I got to meet her as an anonymous fan in the audience a few times, as I live in Portland. I heard her speak on some intense topics and she was so eloquent and insightful on everything she ever spoke on. I heard her do readings from her books and speak on the publishing industry and her struggles with it. And she always had time for questions and discussion! Some of the writing workshops and panels she did were surprisingly small an intimate. She had the same banana slug pin I did, which I delightfully pointed out. She is one of my favorite writers of all time. When she died, my partner and I went to her (public) memorial service. We lost such an amazing author and human being, but the writing she gave us will live on for a very, very long time.
@@Tser How wonderful that you got to see her in person. Her stories and novels continue to mean so much to me, and I greatly admired her. She was brilliant. 🫶🏼
I love when authors do this, especially with children and teens. I understand they could be overwhelmed with correspondence depending on their popularity, but that kind of gesture, especially when we’re young, leaves a lasting impact.
*wrote back to you
@@jelly434 please
This story makes me think about factory farming, fast fashion sweatshops, rare earth mining, and other invisible-to-us suffering that make our current lives possible.
Agreed, I would think back on this story and the image of an animal locked in the room would come to mind. They're the ones that literally no one even thinks about yet are dependent upon and they suffer grotesquely in exchange for humanity's needless indulgence.
Agreed with this.
Almost everyone who says they'd be willing to walk away is still wearing clothes and has other products of sweat shop labor. It's important to point it out, not as a "gotcha," but as recognition that we all are already citizens of Omelas now.
Yes!! And human trafficking is getting bigger and bigger with each passing year and we don’t even think about it
@@1980rlquinnNah. Omelas seems to be a much grander society than the one any of us live in an only tortures one child. We are worse than the Omelans.
And we live FAR from a utopia, so much suffering for a failing society
"No one of us is free until we are all free." I have to believe that
I am only so cynical, because this is what my life has made of me, & while I applaud your sentiment, it is my firm belief that humanity will be a long dead species before your sentiment is ever close to being a reality. Given all our 'advancements,' it seems we have only devised more efficient ways of killing each other. Also, considering the level of nano-plastics in the human body currently, I'd be shocked if we lasted another century. I'm okay with that. Let the octopuses have their day on top. They certainly can't do worse than we have.
@@mcrumph Unfortunately, I agree with you, 100%.
Me too. I ain't free unless my brothers and sisters and non-binary siblings are all free.
@@mcrumph
So we just throw in the towel and accept injustice?
"In the human heart there are two flames burning; one flame of anger at injustice, and one flame of hope that we will build a better world"
(Tony Benn)
There's no such thing as perfection this side of heaven. But that doesn't mean we have to acquiesce to barbarity.
@@pencilpauli9442 No, we do not give up; the struggle is both necessary & noble. However, nothing will change until human nature itself is changed. From what I can see, the pendulum is swinging away from the ideal of Liberalism, once again moving towards cruelty & totalitarianism. France's right wing party's gains in the election (as well as other right-wing victories in Europe & South America) show it is not just in the US that this is happening.
Death & violence is very popular in books, TV, movies, podcasts, video games. It is ubiquitous. I am an old man & frankly can't be rid of this place soon enough. But one's heart can only be broken so many times before it is unable to be repaired. So now I am bitter & cynical.
So it goes.
"True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice."
-MLK
“It is better to be unjust.” - Thrasymachus
“It probably isn’t.” - Socrates
“Explain.” - Thrasymachus
“New phone, who dis?” - Socrates
For what it's worth, LeGuin's answer to "who are the ones that walk away from Omelas" was "The Day Before the Revolution", a short story about Odo, the founder of the ambiguous utopia found in "The Dispossessed". Those who walk away are the ones that look at Omelas, at the idea that suffering is necessary for greatness, and see it for the nonsense that it is.
The great are forged in pain. For those with the world to be strong, pain hardens and strengthens them. No greatness is accomplished with ease and comfort.
@@Mortablunt If that were true, war torn regions like Sudan or Gaza or Afghanistan would be centers of greatness. Greatness has never been cultivated until the base need of survival had been assured, and pain is nothing but survival. “This is the treason of the artist: the refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain.”
@@Mortablunt poppycock
@@Mortablunt Yes it certainly can be and there is no nobility in suffering. And you've made a false equivalence that's lazy thinking. BS. You dont have to go through a bunch of horrid pain to be strong, and labor and hard work doesnt have to be painful.
And if it is that way (its not) I don't want to be *great.*
What's the problem with utopia?
It has no challenge.
Humans need external challenge, or else we turn on each other or ourselves.
Suffering by itself doesn't make one great. The holocaust survivors had endured great suffering. And for the most part, disappeared into mundane, normal lives afterwards
Rising above challenges makes one great. These challenges may involve suffering.
I personally enjoy tramping(hiking for anyone outside NZ)
When I stand on top of a mountain I've never climbed before, I can look down and say "my legs brought me here"
I think the difference with the obviously sterile trolley problem and Omelas is that the trolley problem implies that whoever you hit will die. While Omelas has the person being abused and tortured. So her story actually makes it worse.
It's worse than that. In the trolley problem it is implied that it is impossible to save the people. In omelas you can save the child.
I have not read the story, but from what is presented here, another difference I see is that in the trolley problem, the consequence of saving the one is the death of the 5. On the other hand, my assumption is that if the child is saved in Omelas, the consequence is not the death of every citizen of Omelas, but a more ordinary, non-utopian existence. To me, that makes saving the child and destroying the utopia a somewhat clearer choice. I would love to hear is someone sees it differently, or if there is a detail from the story that negates this interpretation.
This story is interesting because of one key difference between Omelas and our world: while rescuing the child from the cellar would destroy the prosperity of Omelas and put the lives of its citizens in danger, the same is not true for reality. While we may cease to enjoy some of the comforts and luxuries that we have been accustomed to, if our society's metaphorical child is rescued, we will still live on. We don't sacrifice nearly as much when we rescue the child as we do when we stay complicit in its suffering.
It's like if the trolley problem was between a track with five people and an empty track, but pulling the lever to divert the train onto the empty track would mean that billionaires would have to give up some of their obscene amount of wealth.
Exactly
In reality it's quite the opposite, going vegan both reduces the horrific suffering, and increased economic efficiency, land use, citizen health, and pollution.
The enemy in a lot of real world scenarios are the populous' indoctrination and resistance to change
correct. Also in a way, USA conservatives got to steer the trolley in 2016 when they switched the tracks in favor of their prolife agenda... and in doing so, ran the trolley over actual LIVING people. We see that today in the erosion of women's right to choose and the deaths of a bunch of children at the southern border due to harsher policies they put in place. The Trump years were infamous for Children in cages. This was the trade they did when their fetus prolife agenda won.
well no, our metaphorical child are the exploited poor and the wratched of the earth. The point for her was that we would have to give up our luxury of exploitation and security of power.
Yesss! Ursula K LeGuin is the entire reason I went from a kid who couldn't care less about books into a young adult/adult who is passionate about reading... I found one of her books in the school library in 4th grade and it felt like it changed my entire brain. I'm so happy to see you discussing her!!
I feel this comment. 💯
I read this story my freshman year of high school. At the time, the conclusion that myself and my class came to was that "walking away" was representative of death or ending one's own life. We reasoned that the ones who walked away were unable to make the choice of remaining complicit or taking action and destroying society as they knew it. Either way their guilt was too much for them to manage, so rather than destroying the utopian society or continuing to destroy the child they make the choice to destroy themselves. (I would also like to note that we read this story during our unit on Frankenstein so the ideas of guilt, and by association the destruction of what cause that guilt, was definitely in the foreground of our minds.) Although, I no longer fully subscribe to this interpretation of the text I still find it an interesting point to consider. I also remember bringing up the trolly problem during our socratic seminar, so it is nice to see my connection validated. Thank you for this video, this story has remained one of my favorites and I still think about it often!
Oh wow, that's really interesting, I hadn't considered walking away as dying, nor had I made the connection with Frankenstein - thanks. - Rosie
Isabel J Kim wrote a great short story that explored a fourth (dark) option: "Why Don't We Just Kill the Kid in the Omelas Hole". She also does a great job bringing in how outsiders view Omelas and how social media plays into things.
Went immediately to read this story, and WOW! It’s fantastic! Thanks so much for recommending it. It made me think of The Problem of Susan by Neil Gaiman-I love stories like these, that reimagine and reevaluate classic works.
I was just coming into the comments section to recommend it! it's such a good piece
Oh interesting, thanks for the recommendation - Rosie
@@books_ncats that's the name of the satirical sequel I was talking about. Isabel J. Kim did a fantastic job.
I watch a lot of long form TH-cam and I rarely ever comment. I got your video recommended to me and it finally sparked me to go read The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas before coming back to your video. First of all: incredible job, immediately had me subscribing. Second, the story and its painting of the misery of one child in exchange for the joy of thousands of others immediately made me think of Palestine, which you also pointed out in the video. The past nine months has opened my eyes to the sheer atrocities of the world I had previously (shamefully) turned a blind eye to. It’s not that I wasn’t aware of them before, but rather that I had chosen to look away in exchange for my quiet, privileged life. I really enjoyed how thought-provoking both the story and your analysis of it was. I feel like, at least in my life, the genocide happening in Gaza has opened the eyes of a lot more people my age and it has people enraged in a way I’ve never seen before. The injustice and otherworldliness of watching children and babies die at the hands of genocidal monsters is something that cannot be unseen. Thank you for your well made video; I hope you’ll continue to make pieces like this.
Thanks for commenting, and for your thoughtful words - Rosie
I can't be alone in reading a somewhat darker analogy in the story - to me "walking away from Omelas" is a euphemism for su*cide.
The ethical dilemma thus becomes more akin to seeing the trolly approaching a person and throwing yourself in front of it in hopes that it will stop. Or, more troublingly (realistically?) throwing yourself in front of a trolley because you can no longer tolerate living in a continuous thought experiment where people are constantly being set up to be run over by trollies.
In a powerful and tragic way, people like Aaron Bushnell are The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.
THIS is the comment I was looking for. Thank you.
I had never thought of it this way, thank you for sharing this thought!
I felt chills reading this comment. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
That's a truly bone-chilling theory that makes complete sense! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
That was my interpretation as well. Though I really don’t know if it was the intended one.
When I first read Omelas in college, I thought it framed my home situation well: I was the child in the basement so the rest of the people in the house had a person to dump all their miseries on.
Omelas is a picture of a world on a macro and micro level.
How they describe the child as disabled makes me wonder what they do to the "undesirables" (a term throughout history to describe mainly disabled people as they were sadly consider to be undesirable to the city). Do they just throw them outside the city and plan to grab one of them once they need a new child?
I have a theory that "those who walk away from Omalas" (to the mountains) are going to a smaller, less utopian city to take care of those who were abandoned due to being considered undesirables (like the child).
Edit: Punctuation
If you take the story at face value, than the only horrible thing happening in Omelas is the suffering of the child in the cellar. And the rest of the city is utopian, in whatever way that looks like to you. Maybe no disabled children are ever born, due to the sacrifice of the one child. Maybe they are lovingly cared for and included within the community, and they ger medical care that exceeds our own standards. Whatever sounds good to you.
As you might already know, the terms lunatic, insane, idiot and feeble-minded used to be genuine technical medical terms used widely in the field. Source: I'm an archive conservator who, as part of a project, dealt with historic patient records for a "training hospital" asylum from 1840-1950s. Grim stuff but absolutely fascinating
You might want to check out "Model Citizen" by Dead Sound! Its an interesting short animated film/series about dystopian conformity, that could be considered utopian but is very far from it.
Its really interesting to think about the differences between a dystopia and utopia, and would we ever know the difference if we ever were to find ourselves in a "utopia".
@Rosaelynn45 There is a modern day equivalent to the Omelas child. And that is people with disabilities. In the USA, the freest, richest lol country , to get help if you are poor and disabled (SSI), you are mandated to BE poor, or BECOME poor, and STAY poor. If you are married, get divorced. If your relatives help you, you may lose your benefits. So if you need it for the health care... tough luck. Oh, and all those restrictions make it unlikely you can keep any kids you have. Become disabled? Welcome to your new life as a poor, isolated scapegoat for the sins of society.
I just recently read a once upon a time fanfiction on ao3 based on this story in which the child in the story is recued and the consequences and fallout of that. The thing I took away from that story was what a huge world altering change one person can make when they refuse to walk away from the problem. One person, and one action of kindness can mean so much and save the lives of more than one person. It really made me think deeply about child abuse and domestic violence and sexism in society and how we need to stick up for each other, for real people in our daily lives, even if its uncomfortable and we would be ostracised. It reminded me of that clip from the tv show why women kill s1 when she says i hate people who look away. Affecting real change in the world starts at home and starts in your own neighbourhood. dont look away. dont walk away from omelas.
Can you tell me the name of this fanfic? It sounds very interesting and inspiring
whats the fanfic's name, id love to read it even tho i never watched that tv show
Is this the Walking Away series by Ellynne? I'm not familiar with the Once Upon a Time fandom, so this is really just the result a surface level search, but it has a wonderful premise that blends parts of Rumplestiltskin, Beauty and the Beast, and Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas, so I'd recommend regardless.
I'm also curious about the fanfic, mind sharing its name?
@@industrialsunflower i thin k its called the ones that walk away in the once upon a time tv show fandom
I love this story and think about it often.
There are so many interpretations and possibilities of what it could be communicating. Two I think are valuable to consider actually go against the idea of this being a trolley problem at all.
One, why don't we believe this in the existence of this society until the pitious child is revealed? Why do we believe goodness only exists in opposition to evil?
Two, who says the child must suffer for the utopian society to remain? Why do we believe them?
That last sentence is SO TRUE and applies to so many modern governments! A lot of people genuinely believe that suffering is just a part of life and cannot be fixed without harming others. But it really doesn't have to be that way. Hell a lot of people here in America actually consider some suffering as important for "character building" or the mindset of " I had to do ____ so everyone else should have to as well or it isn't fair to me" type thing.
I love your interpretation of it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I would've never thought of the second point, but it's really good.
To go even further, I think their belief is what drives the utopia forward. Every single person when they come of age have to see this child as if to prove this system of suffering as valid, and as a result everyone is nicer, kinder, more invested in maintaining their society. It is buoyed but their guilt.
In the real world version of the Omelas, society is actually built on the suffering of certain children. That is what creates the qualities of utopia in some parts of the world. And even for those who try to walk away, we sometimes fail, and end up benefitting from abuse
@@quietestkitten Or it is the lie that "every light casts a shadow" (or whatever homily is being used to uphold the status quo) that denies us the ability to create a true Utopia. The fact that in the real world, most Utopias are lies held up by more-or-less hidden horrors does not mean, that it is impossible. Until 1903 no human had ever flown through the air under their own power, and yet it was possible. All it took was a lot of hard work, trial and error, and the trust in the idea that it was worth it without giving up.
There is a fourth possibility. A child who sees the sacrificed child--lets the child out and takes their place. And then, another does the same. Another and another--sharing the sacrifice. Not leaving the child until it dies alone, cold, starved and and in darkness. Sharing the burden.
That still actually just sounds like adults letting kids suffer for their own benefit. Child labour etc.
@@Jane-oz7ppI suppose so. It does beg the question of why adults aren’t doing the sacrifice and replacement. Why does it have to be a child?
In the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds episode that had a similar premise, it apparently HAD to be a child. And it was an irreversible process, making it impossible to do the repeated replacement. That definitely increased the discomfort of the scenario.
And who would find it acceptable to let a child do this?
Or just fight?? Why make that choice
@@DawnDavidson My question is why are people just blindly accepting that sacrifice needs to happen in the first place? Who the fuck hears an explanation that somehow utopia is formed by the torture of a child and thinks "Yeah, that makes sense."? How about we just... not torture anybody at all?
Mental health nurse here, children are treated this way in real life. My solution is to take care of the survivors and hope that individuals will become kinder.
I hadn't considered the story as a discussion on the trolley problem, but I can see now how it fits.
For me, my initial take away from this story was that despite the reader likely being disgusted by the prospect of the child in the basement presented by the narrator, they are not satisfied or perhaps convinced that a utopia could exist without there being some price to pay.
In the same way that the people of Omelas believe that the foundation of their societial prosperity exists because of the suffering of the child, perhaps Le Guin is challenging the reader to contemplate for what systems of abuse are they complicit.
Although they are willing to make a personal action, do those that walk away really believe that the Omelas' societal system should or could be disestablished?
I don't know.
Whatever the interpretation, this disquieting story from Le Guin certainly sticks around in my brain asking for some rumination.
I think your mention of the Palestinians is apt. The best real-world demonstration of the dynamic in the story is the displacement and emiseration of the Palestinians for the purpose of creating an advanced and wealthy Israeli ethnostate.
yes. so many real world comparisons. Like that glittering city of Dubai. built by slave labor from poor countries who work in terrible conditions, denied pay promised, passports confiscated and kept like animals.
I'M SO HYPED FOR THIS DISCUSSION!!
I hear there's an Afro-Futurism response to Omelas called "The One Who Stay and Fight;" I haven't read it yet, but I'd be interested to see the position that's argued in there. I'm curious to see what's offered there, as walking away doesn't seem to solve anything; it doesn't help the child, and only serves to alleviate the guilt of the people who leave, without causing any actual change.
Yeah I think that's a really interesting alternative, one a lot of people have mentioned. I wonder why it's missing in the story - Rosie
A book channel talking about GOOD books and in-depth, with an eye to analysis? FINALLY TH-cam GIVES ME THE BOOK CONTENT I WANT INSTEAD OF HALF-REVIEWS OF SMUTTY SLASHFICS!
the transition at 12:07 goes soooooooo hard
I don't know how to adequately express my appreciation and enthusiasm for your videos. Please know you have a new fan ❤
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Thanks so much! - Rosie
So this story made me wonder if it would be possible to substitute a volunteer to take the child’s place. The substitute would have to be an adult in order to give informed consent, because it strikes me that the true horror of the child abuse is that the child cannot consent to its suffering.
I wonder if the children in “ The long walk “ had an exemption from informed consent
You have proposed the seed of the moral resolution of this scenario. The Gethsemane Criterion demands that the "suffering servant" be a volunteer who understands what [s]he is getting into. This person must be able, from the depths of the soul, say "Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless, not what I will, but what thou wilt." (Mark 14,36 & see also Matt. 26,39, Luke 22,42, John 18,4-8) 😮 !!!
This solution makes a completely different scenario. The idea of a “willing” substitute changes the result from suffering to martyrdom.
@@splashpitLove that story!
I read TOWWAFO in a collection of short stories that led each story with an interesting blurb about the author. LeGuin was asked how she comes up with her ideas. She answered that she was driving to Salem, Oregon and shortened it to Salem O and then reversed it for Omelas. That always stuck with me - but the story has haunted me for decades.
That sounds like Le Guin's own collection _The Wind's Twelve Quarters._ In the blurb preceding "Omelas," she talked about having once read something in Dostoevsky's _The Brothers Karamazov_ and then mentions the backwards road signs. She also transliterates Omelas into "Homme Helas," meaning "Man, alas." (Sorry, there's a missing accent in "helas," but I don't have the abiltiy to do those on my keyboard.)
Watched this video earlier today, and haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I'm simply haunted by the implications and imagery of this story. I'm left with this feeling of helplessness - the people of Omelas were each given a choice to continue or end the child's suffering in order to maintain the status quo. How many children suffer now that I won't even be given the choice to save?
Love your work here, as usual. Thank you for sharing your passion for literature with us ^_^
Walking away from Omelas hit me in a different way, to me it showed how walking away from injustice is a balm only to the one who is leaving not to the oppressed. After all, the child is still left in Omelas. The people who walk away from Omelas are like those in the trolly problem who couldn't push one person to save five. It is easier to pat ourselves on the back for not participating in suffering rather than doing the hard work to make the suffering cease.
It would be an understatement to say that this gave me a lot to think about. The story lived with me for days after listening to your reading of it and watching your analysis video. And weirdly, after the shock and horror of that poor child's situation calmed down, it's something else that seems to be sticking out for me.
It's the fact that Le Guin insists on us *believing* that Omelas exists, and how she tries to know what conditions are enough for us to believe in it. I think this story says, "People do not believe a good thing can happen if no one is paying the price". I think it's about how *we* would not even consider the possibility of a true state of peace and justice as anything else than a mere childish dream. It's a belief that gives all systems of exploitation and domination a very solid permission to keep functioning.
I first heard of this story when reading John Scalzi's "Omelas State University", about Penn State higher-ups covering for one of their coaches being a serial child rapist. (Because blowing the whistle and saving the kid would have hurt their organization's reputation >_> God forbid anyone interfere with football. Or the Catholic Church, for that matter.) So my reading of Omelas will probably always be under a CSA lens.
I can't imagine how the sacrifice would literally work in 'Omelas' beyond "dark magic", but I can picture a mayor or civil servant who is incredibly popular and good at their job, and who brings so much prosperity to the city that anyone who notices the literal child chained up in their basement... doesn't want to disrupt the apparent status quo.
I also think about Cabin in the Woods, which involved a similar trade-off, and decided that any system that requires such horrors to sustain itself maybe should be burned the fuck down.
Yeah, there's a very clear comparison to Cabin in the Woods, the ending of which I really like. There are so many save the world narratives and it was refreshing to see something different - Rosie
Thank you for mentioning the Palestinian Genocide. When you were describing the cellars of Omelas I couldn't help but imagine Gaza.
I told my loved ones that if I was ever taken hostage, and saving me meant killing children, they're to leave me where I am, because nothing I will ever do in my life will be worth that.
I find it interesting that the only method of fighting back anyone displays is abstention. No one seems interested in mounting a rescue mission. The only options are complicity, and abstention. 🤷🏻
I find that interesting, too. I wonder why she didn't include anyone fighting back? - Rosie
In my opinion, a society that benefits from suffering, even the suffering of one individual, cannot even be considered a Utopia. If stopping the cycle of suffering means that Omelas falls, then so be it. We rebuild, we try again, and we do better.
Le Guin was a Communist in a time and place when it REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY wasn't safe to be a Communist. I highly doubt she'd take the deontological approach of throwing five other people into the tool room. The only right answer is to take the kid with you and let people figure out their own happiness. Remember, it'ss magic that keeps this place going. It even says the very WEATHER depends on the child's suffering. If this is magic, we need to thrust people into reality.
Through a communist or socialist lense the view is that no one has to suffer.
Anarchist, actually
@@Theyungcity23 well, no, it's that nobody should suffer for the gain of another. Suffering is inevitable in a world where stubbed toes hurt so badly.
@@Jane-oz7ppthose ain't mutually exclusive. she often said how she hates capitalism
@@Jane-oz7pp if you think stubbing your toe equates to “suffering,” you have problems no one in this world can solve lol
Well-put. Really made me think. Utopia is difficult to even think about building because it implies the entirety of a people to prosper and given our real world, we only have sustained models of hierarchy and severe imbalances of power.
I met LeGuin , a giant in Speculative Fiction, (SF) At a Portland SF Convention. Friends who knew her introduced her to me & I was tongue tied. Shook her hand, said a greeting, but could only nod a smile afterwords. I got to meet a number of really great Authors that convention, but they must have wondered who everyones Mute friend was.
Maybe the secret fourth option is to just convince yourself that the child deserves it. I've met plenty of people like that.
These are the people who say "if poor people worked harder, they would be rich."
“What did you do to provoke them, so they needed to punish you that way?” *shudder*
It's hinted at in the story that the child is so poorly developed mental and emotionally that he/she most likely wouldn't even be able to enjoy or even comprehend its freedom if it had it. Basic rationalization - a touch that made this even more dismal for me after I'd read it.
Timely and shattering
Thanks for posting this. I've read a lot of LeGuin and what I have noticed is that she frames conflict in such a way that the parties involved are not uniformly good or bad. I'm thinking of her novel 'The Dispossessed' as an example. This is one of the reasons why I reread her novels and stories. Thanks again.
Oh, we solved the problem with the Load-Bearing Child long ago by thinning out the suffering across several children: instead of one child living in filth and misery, we have several children who are just slightly uncomfortable. Right now we got about 78 kids who live normal lives except that each of them gets whapped with a throw pillow once a day.
I remember reading Omelas in school and having recently been reading more Le Guin didn't realize she had done this as well. However I remember how deeply it affected my worldview at the time and given her works that makes a lot of sense.
Great production on this video by the way. Mousey the Magnificent was an excellent co-host and the tail flick at their name mentioned was beyond adorable.
Amazing how influential this story has been, while you were talking I thought about the star trek next gen utopia with a dark secret (any rule breaking results in death), midsommer with their death rituals, and that episode of Dr who with England floating on the back of a giant whale where they had the choice to forget that the whale transported them by having its brain electrocuted (which feels like the most similar). For a literary reference it kind of made me think of Farenheight 451 where the protagonist goes against the status quo to leave society
Love to see themes running through different media
I had to think about the Dr Who episode as well! It's actually super interesting because in the episode, they eventually choose the equivalent of letting the child out of the basement and contrary to their beliefs, their society does not crumble. The whale continues letting them live on its back even without being electrocuted.
Essentially, it poses the question of "why are we so sure that the collective happiness of Omelas is reliant on the misery of this one child?" and ends up rejecting the belief that forms the foundation of their society.
It's kinda what the narrator seemingly hints at in the short story. Why does the narrator believe that telling us about the child will make Omelas more believable to us? Because we, the readers, cannot imagine a society where everyone is happy without someone else having to suffer for it? Just like the people (or more specifically the queen) on the whale couldn't imagine it?
... Not gonna lie, I did not think I would think this deeply about a Doctor Who episode today.
@@gurkensohn7807 ooh good point. I haven't read the short story so limited info from that front, but yeah interesting stuff.
Also Dr who episodes are often full of super deep reflection lol
Even very recently, the character Omeluum in Baldur's Gate 3 is a clear nod to Omelas, in a story that very much discusses suffering and utopianism.
new to this channel, and wow your performance of the writing was breathtaking. I was listening while I worked and suddenly found myself glued in horror to the screen, my breath frozen for a moment, and as these few people walked away in silent protest, I could feel my eyes start to tear, swelling with familiar pain. This story feels like my everyday tortured feelings of living in Omelas or America and learning about the monstrosities that my country has done past, present, and future, the horrors they inflict on those I will never meet, but whose faces string themsleves across short blips of news coverage. I go on living my ordinary life with fully stocked grocery stores and a new phone, to go back to the home I live in amd joyfully tune out the world with silly entertainment and games, only to still know in the back of my mind that somewhere right now, there is a child in a room, leading a tortuous existence, that my normalities of life are only possible because of child labor somewhere far away or the repression of some unknown people. If I think to long about it I feel like I cannot breathe, and I cannot escape it, there is no life I could create that would save the child locked in that room. There is no power I hold that could change how this world functions. It is the unredeemable sadness of living with such privileges. Even to flee, to take myself out of the system itself, to somehow walk away or vanish in some unknown way outside of government systems and the trappings of global capitalism, the gears of the system would still turn, I could no longer reap its benefits yes, but I would still know... I would still know all too well the suffering I am still complicit in knowing. And to know and do nothing? is that wrong when there is nothing you can do to dismantle the manner in which this world turns. There is no moral way to survive. It sends shivers down my spine this thought. That I will always know that I as an individual can do nothing to stop atrocities from happening, even if I know them well, I can only choose not to be a part of them. My joy haunts me.
Thanks for this comment and your words about our channel. Yeah, it's so much to consider and so difficult to morally reconcile if, as you say, doing so is at all possible - Rosie
I love le Guin discourse! Let's goooo 🎉
Transition to the red room around halfway through was very unsettling- great visual production!
Your videos always make me go straight to the Libby app to see if my library has whatever book/author you talked about!
That mid point transition though!!! I don’t know why the algo hasn’t picked up your videos, they are SO GOOD! Eagerly binging what’s on TH-cam! :D
how prosperous is it really tho? is it really perfect, or is that just propaganda to keep people from trying another way? what is the full impact on a mind when you know that your wellbeing is dependent on a child being tortured? what happened to the child's parents?
what if the prosperity of society actually relies on not pretending that everything can be perfect and trying to spread the misery out relatively evenly among everyone so that we can all work together to help each other rather than ignoring the suffering of our fellow beings?
That's a wonderful theory!
Exactly - those are some of the questions I felt it was important to address. Essentially, can it really be a utopia given that everyone knows what is going on? - Rosie
I love your videos and hearing your point of view on books and stories. One of my favourite youtube channels right now. Sending you best wishes!
Thank you, that's really lovely to hear - Rosie
I'd be questioning who made the rule that one child has to suffer to give everyone happiness in the first place.
I'm a massive advocate for utilitarianism, I apply it to my whole outlook on life. It's why I'm vegan, it's why I give money to the homeless, why I join protest movements and why I try to go out of my way to do good and hold myself back from causing harm.
I generally find criticisms of utilitarianism, especially in media, to be shallow and often just completely missing the point.
Even most academic criticisms of utilitarianism I find to be poorly formed, for example the "Utility Monster" is considered the go to academic argument against utilitarianism which personally I find very unconvincing. To me, if you have to invent an impossible monster to generate a scenario in which utilitarianism doesn't look good, that's essentially an admission that it's pretty sound.
But Omelas is a brilliant and genius discussion that combines the much personal and reasonable scenario with a human touch and manages to give the reader the opportunity to think for themselves. Omelas is so brilliant because there is no real good answer, it just makes you really consider which you'd choose and why. In some ways it does effectively critique utilitarian ethics, but it also doesn't go too far and label them as wrong. It forces us to consider the limits and the costs of our ethical decisions and I find it fascinating. It's so well constructed that I'm not even sure what the most utilitarian action would be. To allow the child to suffer? To walk away thereby refusing to cause harm either by hurting the child yourself or by hurting the other residents by helping the child? To try and create a new society that doesn't require hurting a child? To end the contract and attempt to replicate the conditions without the child?
I have no idea. And that's why I love it.
Le Guin has won ethics in literature as far as I'm concerned. She's already done it. She's beaten me at the very least.
I completely agree with everything you said! Very well put
That's what I think is so brilliant about it, too - that she makes us think for ourselves and opens the scenario up to so many different interpretations. Such clever story telling! - Rosie
Well done. Ursula Le Guin's work and your presentation of it has thouroughly messed with my head.
May it also mess with many more heads.
I did not anticipate how the tone shift of this video would affect me. Jesus christ, that was gut churning.
Thanks a lot for these videos, extremely interesting and thought-provoking
Literally what the Hunger Games is about - and why no one stops the Games
Not at all in the whole set up is completely nonsensical. The outlying districts don’t get anything for winning so speaking they have no enfranchisement from being involved.
I have needed this content so badly. Thank you. Honestly, I would leave and try to make my own life somewhere, hopefully with others detached from Omelas. That's a goal just easier said than done
Your content is consistently excellent. I am so happy to have found this channel.
I sort of came up with a similar thing myself once without ever having read or heard of this story. Though in much less detail. And it was always so wrenching to me how other people responded to what I proposed. What I essentially said was 5 people who have always experienced great joy and never any suffering, versus one person who has only experienced hardship and suffering. In a similar vein to Omelas, if you release one from suffering the others will experience suffering. What I never told my friends was that I very much felt like I was in the shoes of the one person suffering. There was always something so inhumane about just saying “ofc we save the five, more people” done and dusted.
The heroic scenario would be 'would you choose to be the one person that passes to save the five' Basically you can stop the trolley from unaliving five by throwing yourself in front of it. Would you?
You tied it to Palestine! I was just drafting my thoughts about how the people who leave Omelas mirror my own political awakening… and there, you did it. Your explorations are brilliant and heart felt ❤
I named my cat after her. This short story I had forgotten about and I am so happy to find it here. Thank you for doing this video!!
I have two issues with the trolley problem and similar ones. One, the people who put it forward usually expect you to accept it blindly, why can’t I stop the trolley, why can’t I scream for people to get out of the way, why can’t I fix the brakes. Then they get frustrated and scream how it’s hypothetical, just accept it. If it’s hypothetical then I put on my hypothetical jet pack and remove everyone on the tracks before summoning superman to stop the trolley with his super strength. Which leads me to two, the people who put forward these kinds of situations really want you to kill someone, trying to find a solution that saves everyone is seen as naive and childish, never an acceptable answer. This mirrors parts of our society perfectly, homeless people are inevitable, starving children are inevitable, extreme poverty is inevitable. I reject that notion as firmly as I reject that it’s impossible to stop the trolley.
A true "utopia" would neither have nor require such a dilemma to sustain itself. What it would require is a lot of continual work and vigilance to make sure scenarios like that never happened to anyone. Otherwise, it's just another case of "bliss is ignorance".
We're already living in Omelas. To enjoy modern comforts like phones, chocolate, clothes, cars, etc. we willingly allow children to die in mines and people in foreign countries to suffer in sweat shops. We may not live in a utopia, but the western world is closer to utopia compared to the countries we take advantage of.
Love this! Glad I found your channel today.
But the child is still suffering regardless of if i walk away or not... If I walk away without trying to save it, I'm also complicit but just to a lesser extent
This video comes at a perfect time, I feel it puts things in simple terms and hopefully inspires others to understand why so many people continue to protest and demonstrate for causes they support
Great analysis, especially an idea at the end about walking away not necessarily being the right option.
After listening to this story my first thought was "Why won't the ones who can't bear to live in Omelas unite and try to rescue the child?" But then I thought what would happen to other people in this cruel utopia, especially the children who weren't even told why this city prospers. Though I still think that freeing the child is better than walking away even though direct action has the potential to make things worse. But it is probably hard to free the child, as it is hard to fix injustices. So not many people have the power to free the child which is why those who walk away from Omelas pick the other option.
Ok finnnnnnne I'll subscribe
Seeing You and Mousey pop up in my feed always makes my week! Your content is consistently excellent and always leaves me with something to rethink about my on life.
Aww thanks so much! - Rosie
We had to read this in college in 2007 and I think about it STILL
Walking away from Omelas is jumping out of the trolley. Good for _you._
This is my favorite story. I think to view it only as the Trolley Problem, though it certainly is a vivid example of the crisis of that thought experiment, is reductive. I view the story also as a criticism of our current state of being. We are often told that we live in a society of winners and losers, and when you look at the wealth gap and the increasing presence of poverty in a world that has never been wealthier in every conceivable resource, it certainly looks like that, but that, too, is simplistic. The old observation of status, "I wept because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet," reminds us that winning and losing occur on a spectrum, and we are never at the basest level. While there is life, there is always someone who has suffering greater than yours. Even if you are the person with shoes, neither barefoot nor footless, there is always someone who has comforts, luxuries, social status, emotional fulfillment, that exceed your own. The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas has caused me to consider that we all live in the basement and in the city and are simultaneously oppressed and complicit in the oppression of all those around us. So the question the ones that leave are asking is, is it winning to be the oppressor, and is it losing to be oppressed, and isn't there a utopia possible where we can moderate our winning and losing so that no one is abused?
Abuse itself is a socially bound and defined concept. It's often noticed that when wealthy people gather, they seldom smile, and yet smiles and fun abound in the poorest ghettoes. Introduce a soccer ball to the street in a slum in any part of the world and soon laughing urchins will be playing or inventing a game to play with it. Is that utopia? Does it matter that they are hungry, have sores festering under tattered clothing, are oppressed by wealthier or more powerful members of their society, if with a ball or an idea they are freed from sorrows by playing with their comrades?
When I was a child, I was always hungry, and my family was poor by local standards. My father often engaged in illegal activities to bring home what resources we had, and so I often contemplated what it meant to go to prison, and extended the question to what it meant to have freedom without the power to change anything at all. I concluded that to be free meant that no matter what oppression I faced, I must be able to free my mind. Thrown in solitary confinement I must be able to find freedom in my imagination. Only that was within my control. Only that would allow me to be free without power, and so I invested in intellectual pursuits. I built a palace in my mind, filled with chess games, and stories, and math, and artwork, so that when I found myself in the cellar I would have no need to beg for comforts, or for release, or for any kindness at all. I furnished my mind with all the comforts I would need, except...
Except that human beings are not made to be alone. We cannot long be happy without the companionship and love of others. I am transgender, and my society in the last eight years or so has focused its gaze upon me in a most uncomfortable way. I have found myself a pariah in many circumstances, or at least an unperson, unworthy of the love of others. In essence, I have been invited into the cellar, not as a witness, but as a sacrifice, and though my suffering does not compare to the devastating suffering of the child in our story, it has caused me to consider that we are all in the cellar, all the time.
I want to walk away from Omelas. I want to be neither sacrificed, nor complicit, but where oh where will I go? I think the story is far more nuanced than even its author could have appreciated. Omelas, Homme Alas, alas humanity, there is no paradise. Utopia, after all, means No Place. Where shall we walk?
Maybe the only winning move is not to play - or more specifically, not force a child to, by never bringing them here - regardless of whether they'd become closer to a winner or a loser. Had your parents considered this you would never have gone hungry, nor would your body feel like a prison in of itself, nor would you know loneliness. Condolences for what you endured. All you can do from here is make the most of the hell you were born into.
I feel trapped any time I think about this story. It immediately gets me thinking about how there’s no satisfactory way to walk away from our own society’s metaphorical Omelas (as I type this on a device containing components that are almost certainly sourced through slave labor). But it leaves me desperate to get out, as well. I feel this urge to avoid sitting with the knowledge of that child in the cellar, and the urge is so strong I don’t even recognize it.
I forgot about this story somehow, thank you for reminding me, it’s one of those view changing stories
Vibe checking the 5 and the 1 before I make the decision for the trolley problem
I was 13 when I first read this story and it had a great impact on me. I knew, immediately, that I would be one of the ones who walked away. Strangely, in all the years since it never occurred to me that it was a glorified Trolly Problem so thanks for putting that notion in my head. Your video did make me think of the work of Peter Singer, specifically his essay Famine, Affluence, and Morality - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine,_Affluence,_and_Morality - and the controversy it continues to cause more than 50 years after it was written. In a nutshell, the argument is that if one can use one's wealth to reduce suffering without any significant reduction in the well-being of oneself or others, it is immoral not to do so & placing greater geographical distance between the person in need and the potential helper does not reduce the latter's moral obligations. Heady stuff and very difficult to live by completely but I do find his arguments compelling.
Fantastic channel, Dr. Whitcombe. If I still taught English, I’d be directing my students here.
once again, an absolutely smashing video.
I wrote to Auntie She-Bear years ago, after I had read what proved to be her last novel. She wrote back both times.
Aaaaaaaand just like that I want to watch The Good Place again.
Now that I am aware of this, but also aware of what exists in the Real World, Omelas' darkness feels so trivial for the fact that both everyone MUST know and only one suffers directly. The dark mockery to Omelas is that I am being asked to be complicit, knowingly, in the suffering of one rather than pretending I am not participating in the suffering of probably thousands in conditions as horrible as The Child of Omelas.
A very interesting story and I must admit I hadn’t even heard of this author. It is a very difficult dilemma, spontaneously I would say I would walk away, but then I would certainly have difficulty caring properly for my two cats 😢
I've heard this similar argument from shockingly quite a few people: "I would just stay in Omelas." "Leaving wouldn’t help the kid so might as well reap the results."
I’ve never watched your channel before and was pleasantly surprised by your cat co-star.
There's an episode of Star Trek SNW (S1E6) that pretty much tells the same story. Very thought provoking.
Excellent video as usual!
We read this in school and it has never left me
Fabulous summery, discussion and presentation. Ursula LeGuin was formative for me and I gobbled up most of her works. Would you consider not using 'man/men' to describe all human? It always amazes me that this is still in use. Keep bringing us great content!🙏🏽📚❤
Great video. Thank you for examination.
They did an episode of ST:SNW, season 1:6, Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach, with a very similar premise
Yes ma'am, I am HERE!
For those in the comments, I would like to recommend a similar short story that's actually part of a collaborative online fiction project known as "SCP Foundation". The SCP foundation is about a secret organization that protects the world from entities that behave in a way that cannot be explained by science. Each entity is called an SCP which stands for "Secure Contain Protect". The SCP which is similar to "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" is SCP-231. Basically it's about 7 girls who have been impregnated with unspeakable horrors and to stop them from giving birth the SCP foundation has to do terrible things to the girls to stop them from giving birth to a world ending entity. They don't say what is done to the girls, but it is made clear it is horrible. I would recommend reading it, but just so you all know, it is not for the faint of heart.
I read this story with my class as assigned reading in middle school, and it definitely messed me up a bit. I would try to discuss it further with my classmates, who were over it already, and didn't care much to rehash the story that definitely caused everyone discomfort.
I reread and reread, trying to make sense of it, but I was unsatisfied every time. It wasn't until high school that I reread again, and finally accepted why it made me feel the way it did. Still can't put to words the horror, but I'd like to think reading and thinking on it made me a more compassionate person overall.
Ursula Le Guin is such a boss. I'm reading The Dispossessed right now.
This story reminds me of an episode of Doctor Who. I don’t want to spoil it for anyone who might watch the episode in the future. So, I won’t share much of the details. Basically, a society is torturing a creature for their own survival and benefit. They are given the choice to forget and they always do. Their leader is given the choice to free the creature or forget, and she always forgets. They aren’t living in a utopia, and many are suffering or are killed, so there is that difference.
I was going to mention that episode! I wonder if this story inspired it.
This is hard. They say the problem with theoretical problems is you can never really know how you'll react to them until they're no longer theoretical, until you're actually placed in that dilemma. So I can't say for sure.
There's a possibility of a situation where, knowing everything about what's going on, I become a kicker. That frightens me.
The fact that your channel is so unpopular is insane like genuinely
It’s literally insane she should have such a larger following