When Alyssa gave her worldly girl speech I was like "who hurt you?" I'm almost tempted to write Christy/Alyssa fanfiction where they unpack their trauma and have a good cry and kiss.
Omg, I'm only partially in, but the idea of a girl being 'in the trenches' for going to public school hit me.. i was in public school my whole life, in a community of christians who moooostly did that (for an idea of the relative fundieness of my congregation, it was a mixed bag whether kids were allowed to read harry potter, but most kids went to public school or private lutheran school... so yeah, fundie but not quite cult) but when I was 15, I switched to an audition-only arts high school, and when word got around that I was going there I got SO many people like 'it's such a challenge to go to environments like that, you have to stay strong' all around me at church.... little did they know I was already accepting that I'm a lesbian and on my way out
hooo boy the funeral part.... one of my sister's friends died by suicide in their senior year, I was a freshmen then, and i didn't know the guy at all but.. i remember my chief concern at the time being whether he went to heaven or hell. I think I even asked my sister at some point whether he was christian when he died.... not my finest moment.
i remember reading this series as a preteen/teen and it just baffles me how the author makes non-christians dismissive of death and grief even though evangelical christians are some of the most dismissive people when it comes to death and grief and any other emotion that isn’t “joy for the lord”
My parents didn't have me come to the hospital when my Grandpa was dying. They waited until he was dead. Want to know why? Because my dad was busy telling this 92-year-old, lifelong Quaker that he was going to hell because he wasn't saved. He wasted the last moments of my Grandpa's life with his Christian guilt. Oh! They also forced me to touch my Grandma's body in the casket when I was FIVE to show me their wasn't a soul in there anymore. That it was just a husk. Fine. It's just a body. But I was FIVE.
I'm not never have been I don't think I've ever met a Quaker but they're probably a whole lot more "Christian" and better people than Fundies are. Sorry that happened to you and your grandpa.
@@Oatmilllk Quakers believe that there is a light inside of every person. This is the unifying principle, which gives way to core beliefs like unity, equality, integrity, community, education, and peace. From there, beliefs differ, as there are different types of Quakerism. Mainly, Quakers reject dogma.
Ooooof. The way prayer is portrayed in that book! Ugh. And the funeral scene... run, Christy! That lack of empathy indicates Todd is NOT a great candidate for healthy relationships. This Christian (not a fundamentalist... grew up around enough of them to learn to steer clear), is very glad that you are pointing out the toxicity of extreme American fundamental evangelicalism.
i wasn’t allowed to read the christy miller but i snuck it into my giant stack of books from the library on a day my mom was distracted and read it the second i got home, and was obsessed. 😂😭
"Alyssa sounds a lot like me! I was cynical and fatalistic, but not as self centered and materialist as her. My parents allowed to be sad and feel pain and be angry. I wound up with mental illness anyway, but that is another story. I got saved at the age of nine, couldn't figutr out what kind of sins that I needed to be forgiven for.
Robin Jones Gunn had lots of young women novels in the late 90s. I learned about suicide attempts (pills), cutting, abortion, etc, from them. I wish I hadn't had those ideas in my head as a young teen, who struggled with self esteem.
I remember The Color Me series having a similar effect for me. Dealing with very difficult subjects in a way that I’m sure if I revisited now I don’t think were handled in a way I would want my daughter to be introduced to them.
Omg going through these comments is surfacing a whole lot of fever dream memories of book series that I completely devoured as a kid. I remember one about like, a girl in a band… living on a tour bus, can’t recall the series name, but I wanted her life. I bet if I could find that series now and reread, I wouldn’t feel the same… craziness.
I grew up in a completely different way than you (and am much older) but I discovered your wonderful, authentic channel and have really enjoyed hearing you describe your thinking. Plus, I love your ability to find humor in things and your gentle, empathetic touch when it comes to analyzing your life journey. You may no longer believe certain things, but you have found a way to hold grace for people, even those who were somewhat troubling in your life. That is a wonderful thing.
Thank you for reading all of these books and adding your own commentary. It helps ground the subject matter for me. If I try to read them on my own, I get caught up in terror and anxiety. I couldn't be more excited when I saw you read Love and Respect. That book haunted me, lol. Your voice is so easy to listen to. I like that you read the book with different tones for different characters. You also make me laugh with your comments about the story. I hope you keep doing this and that you have a good time as well! Thank you again!🌺
I recently discovered your channel and I wanted to say thank you so much for doing what you do! You have such a warm and well-informed presence. As an ex-fundie myself, reexamining the past can be scary but your videos make it less so. Thank you for being courageous and passing along that courage to your viewers! ❤
I came at Robin Jones Gunn via her companion series Sierra Mae Jensen books, she's friends of Christie. I loved those books but they created a lot of shame in me and made me very anxious that I wasn't able to 'innocent' like her. There were the later college years books, and then Christie's newly wed books too. Also another spin off book about Katie. I ate them all up, but coming back at them now I realise a lot of my internalised shame at being a normal teenager was enforced by the books.
Somehow relieved I wasn't the only one that wasn't allowed to go places by myself? It really sucked! And I'll take it a step further, every summer my youth group would do a summer camp type thing (we mostly did volunteer work) but the last day they would go to the beach (3+ hour in another state) and we were never allowed to go because "we don't trust other people and can't be there with you". That was the worst.
I read all the mainstream Christy Miller books and the Sierra Jensen ones. Omg. Listening to you reading it was such a trip for me... I owend them all and read them over and over.
I would love to see a version of Todd's funeral speech, except every time he mentions Jesus, it's replaced with "our lord and savior Abraham Lincoln", just to really show how fucking delusional and disrespectful that speech would be at a funeral.
Good video in giving your thoughts on Robin Jones Gunn's book Summer Promise and she actually has a few series out centering around Christy Miller and her friends. This book was written in the 1990s before text messaging and social media even existed though I do think email was in its early stages. Its been a while since I've read this book though I've read the follow up series and some of the things in her books are unrealistic. Most people are not going to marry a person they meet as a teenager though other YA books has this story line too not just Christian ones. Also evangelical Christians at that time had people who gave their testimonies as reformed sinners which made those who grew up in the church feel like their testimony wasn't good enough because they didn't necessarily do a lot of bad things. Also in that time frame the church youth group that I grew up in told young women that everyone would get married which wasn't necessarily true and I don't know if they continue to teach that or not which was an aspect of purity culture. They didn't want to hear you question that everyone would get married to someone that God would pick out for them.
I think banning books is a major red flag. If a book has messages that the parent/teacher/guardian does not approve of, I think there should be an open discussion about it. Like with this book, if my child wanted to read it, I would let them. Then we would talk about why some parts of it are problematic
I love all your videos! You have a very engaging presentation style and your vulnerability is also very helpful for gaining insight into fundie culture. I didn’t grow up fundie but in college I tore involved in conservative Christianity and it had its own negative impact on me…. So happy you’re free!
There is a fantastic podcast called Adventures in Ideology where two sisters and various special guests break down the problematic stuff in that series as part of deconstruction. Love it
I have recently stumbled upon your videos and I am hooked watching them. I grew up Catholic but very relaxed. I believe it was very normal rather than forced. In my early 30’s I met a girl through the firm where I worked. She was about 10 years younger than me and was raised a Mormon. She met a boy through the church. Within a week of meeting him, they were engaged. I asked her if she was sure and whether she should ‘date’ a little while to see how he reacts to different situations, if they are indeed compatible long term etc. but she said their ‘bishop’ approved of the relationship. She was giddy with excitement and the simple act of walking down the street touching arms was thrilling for her. I couldn’t understand why that was a big deal. Not long after her engagement I changed jobs but bumped into her in another suburb some months later. She was married by that stage. Although she spoke to me she was desperately trying to end our conversation. I tried calling her but she avoided my calls. I now know why she did not want to have contact with me.
I for one find it so fascinating how evangelicals view “worldly” people as empty and blank. I was raised Catholic but I left it with at least support from my parents in early high school, but one reason I could never get into Jesus shit (besides everything) was that the whole religion in all it’s sects feels hollow and shallow. Idk if it’s just me, but it’s always felt like such an empty belief system that made me always think that those who are deep into it are empty and bland inside. It’s interesting hearing those that I interpret being that thinking the same of people like me
In watching videos on extreme fundamental groups and cults, i have noticed that they make normal teen behavior scandalized, such as having a crush, or even a puppy love type thing. However situations of molestation or grooming is viewed as ok. I remember some churches i had gone to as a tween, and teen, where i was made to feel bad for things like listening to pop music, or being "boy crazy"
Thank you for your insight. I have watched a few of your videos and they've already taught me so much. When you said that your parents wanted you to prepare for being a "Helpmeet", I immediately thought of Debi and Michael Pearl with their books about being and preparing to be a helpmeet. Were you forced to read those books?
I totally read this as a kid!!! I think I was about 9 or something. My older sister had it in her bedroom in the basement and I was sleeping down there for some reason and I picked the book out of the bookshelf to read as I was falling asleep. I couldn't believe it!! I wondered because I saw the cover art, but I wasn't sure until after the makeover. I kinda liked it at that age, but also found it creepy that teenagers were so into church. My siblings and I weren't, but my parents were VERY into being pillars of the church, so we all had to read at least one fundie book as a kid. What a walk down memory lane!! Lmao
A lot of books for kids use the death of a friend as a plot device. Bye, friend! Now, what were we doing?? They just aren't very well written. The first book of the American Girl Kirsten series has a similar death. I can only imagine if my daughter had to witness her best friend being buried at sea. (It's been a few years. I think that's what happened).
At least with Kirsten it was supposed to be showing the reality of disease on ships and how many people didn’t make it to America. In Christys books it’s a lesson about using funerals to preach. 😬
Haha! I read books from that author. Did a book report on Michelle and Debra in 5th grade. It was written by some old guy and even then I knew it was weird for him to write about teen girl drama.
Love hearing you read this stuff. Might interest you but my Christian back story goes way back. I’m in my sixties now with two Grown up Sons to my First Wife (we divorced after eighteen years married) My second Wife Sharon is an agnostic and we had a civil wedding. We’ve been married coming up on nine years now. I can honestly say I have always believed in God. It’s just a faith, a belief, a kind of knowledge. It’s not something that requires proof or explanation. It’s just there like breathing is there…Nothing to do with miracles or anything like that …. I kind of learned the most about God as an undergraduate in my twenties. I met an amazing number of Anglican Monks and Nuns and they taught me about just contemplating before, that prayer was not just about saying words, it was part of being, feeling and experiencing. My First Wife’s Mother (she converted to Catholicism on her death bed) always said ‘Tony you should have been a Priest.’ When the boys were young we joined the Salvation Army. In fact just before myself and my First Wife divorced the plan was that we would become SA Officers (She managed the Salvation Army Charity Shop) She is now I believe married to a guy she had an affair with while she was his manager in the shop. Divorce is painful and expensive) Our youngest Son is Gay. Fantastic we both said. Good fir him. Love him to bits will always love him to bits Salvation Army accept Gay people but won’t let them become officers. Then Church just faded out for me. Never felt the need to go back but haven’t lost my faith in Jesus for one second. Fundamentalists tell me I am unsaved and that ‘eternity is a very long time…..’ Is it I reply. You know oddly enough I would even go back to Church. They would have to be fully accepting of all people and they should marry LBGTQI couples. They should also accept Women in all roles and that would include as ordained and non-ordained clergy.
What I don't really understand is what sin(s) Christy was supposed to have committed. The book doesn't seem to ever say -- just assume that of course everyone must necessarily have committed all sorts of sins. I know Christianity has this assumption that everyone is a sinner. In Roman Catholicism my understanding is that we're all sinners because everyone was conceived through sex; is that still the assumption? That, of course, is why it's said that Jesus was *conceived* without sin, but if it's impossible to go through life without sinning, wouldn't he have been a sinner too?
Not Sure If Catholics still believe the so called 'Original Sin' is passed on by Sex. I Just know 'original Sin' is passed on to every human. Then there is the 'fall of man', you know, the whole eating the fruit thing. Which Christianity views as a point of time at which man chose to distrust God. And distrust destroys every relationship, so now we are caught up in not trusting him, not really knowing him, being emotionally distant from him, trying to maneuver through our life somehow (and of course sometimes suck at that 'job' and hurt people, nature etc.) That is also what many Christians actually mean by the substantive 'a sin': a disconnection and barrier, not just a bad deed. You could basically be the most generous, kind hearted philantropist ever - the distance and disconnect from God would still not be accounted for. And distance from God means distance from heaven. About Jesus being conceived without sin... I hope you don't mean the doctrine of immaculate conception, that is a different thing. But yes, since Jesus is not the son of man he does not inherit the 'original sin'. He basically is the only human that is not a 'heir' to the 'original sin'. And since he was always (as in: however long God has existed, but also later on earth) in a perfect union with his father God, without any of the messy human separation, and without breaking that bond to God the Father and God the Spirit: that means that that 'separation/distance' meaning of 'sin' is also not present in him. And it means he is able to always do the perfect will of God because he is in unity with him. I hope this helps you a little bit to find your answers :)
Maybe this was me growing up Jewish, but I don't get why someone who is already christian had to do extra stuff/ become "more" christinan? I thought she was already "saved". Is it just more indoctrination?
In the books of the renewed/peace covenant a similar thought of Amos 5,18-27 is brought up - that it is not the outward appearance that counts, but the true faith in G-d. It also has verses where it warns from such 'fakes' and commands to stay away from them. But it is also made VERY, VERY clear that Christians are not to separate just Willy-nilly. They are only allowed, and commanded to, when the true faith is not followed. But of course many Christians have many different opinions as to what would be such a 'stay away' case. So, for example, some Christians think baptism (Mikveh) at birth is such a case of 'fake' (=heresy) and thus of course not 'valid'. They baptize later. Others view the baptism of infants as 'valid' and thus for them you are actually a heretic If you were baptized under them as a baby, but later come to believe that that was a heresy and get baptized 'again'. The two viewpoints can not both be true at the same time. So there we have a separation. And that happens with many other Views as Well.
Lowkey wondered if the reason is that I’m still single is because my mom made me go to ccd as a kid than I remember I’m an autistic social awkward person who also reads reader insert fanfics also in terms of parents who make them go to a Catholic after school thing they where pretty lenient. Now I’m a Wiccan so ha! 😆 still socially awkward but still
This book is not Mormon. I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints and I can confirm that I have never seen this book and the doctrine being pushed is not the same. We still have our fair share of cringy novels😂 but, this is definitely not a Mormon book. It's just Christian.
By the way, we don't believe in the typical idea of hell, so if the book refers to God as God and not Heavenly Father or mentions hell, it's not Mormon. 😂 Also, our books would usually mention the temple and the different degrees of heaven. So, if the words are heaven and hell, it's not Mormon. 😂👍
I think she just mentions a different creator doing a similar series with a Mormon YA novel that inspired her to read a religious YA novel from her own youth, not that it's also mormon
I've just recently found your channel and I adore you! You're so eloquent, kindhearted and empathetic. I really admire you're work and your story. I come from the same background and it's amazing to feel less alone and understood. I wish you all the best, you're helping and inspiring so many! :)
I never knew how badly fundamentalists indoctrinate their children. I grew up atheist. I have SO much respect for everyone who has to question what their life is based on and revolves around .
Please read the marriage years. I can’t help but wonder if the story and writing get any better. Also, I’m queer too, so even before you said it, I was thinking the line about the coconut oil wafting up was a bit homoerotic.
Her heart's racing and she's noticing all these details about the girl on the beach (Vs the guys in the previous chapter who are 'college age and there's two of them')..? There is no heterosexual explanation for this, I wonder how many closeted readers made up fanfic about the pair of them... (I am also queer, in case this comes across as anything else!)
@@alliemcmillan7072 he suuucks- the author wants to paint him as some hippy Jesus soooo bad, but he just comes across as this dirty lazy partner who doesn’t communicate or put any effort into his partner besides lecturing her about what she’s got wrong about God
This book would be so much better if it had just been a coming-out story for Christy and kept Uncle Bob as a groovy stay-at-home art dad instead of making him a creeper. I love how Todd isn't ever given a proper description, but Alyssa is.
A few thoughts: * I had one of those dramatic "Jesus saved me at my lowest point" testimonies. Problem was, Jesus didn't actually do any such thing in any practical sense, and my "lowest point" continued for another few years until I gave up on the whole thing. * My uncle died a few years ago, and at the funeral, one of the pastors gave a little speech that was just a cut & paste "Jesus died for your sins" evangelization. It was tacky and uncomfortable and nothing to do with my uncle or his grieving family. Objectifying evangelism at its worst. * Sounds like I wasn't missing out on much not reading some of that Christian fiction. Ham-fisted, didactic narrative, cardboard cutout/strawperson characters. Sometimes I do miss some of the music tho. Sometimes.
So, to some degree, I think uncle Bob's 'creepy' thing with the college guys is possibly not as creepy as you might have taken it... but I still have issues with it. I *suspect* that if she had suggested that he should invite them over he would have been shocked and not agreed. The point of his action wasn't to suggest she should be flirting with those boys but that she was deserving of attention. Consider Bob's point of view. He can see Christy is very self-conscious and seemingly unsure if she is attractive. To him, his actions are saying 'you are attractive and you should be confident; you are noticed and you should be'. That said, I really don't know what the nodding to the college boys was about. Even in most negative takes on what Bob is doing this doesn't make sense. Other than as a 'I'm the sort of person who nods at people I've made vague eye contact with' thing... which I'm one such person... but the question becomes 'why was it mentioned'? Maybe the author was simply way to in the head space of what would happen in their mind that forgot that some details can be misleading. Anyway, that's my hot take.
I agree. It seemed to me that he was trying to tease her about being noticed by these guys in a misguided attempt to get her to relax a bit. As someone who grew up in a family full of such teasing, though rarely about people checking me out, it can still be harmful and cause a lack of trust in the people who are supposed to support you because it feels like your every action is being put through the cinema sins treatment. Bob made a poor decision but it definitely wasn't as creepy as the college guys that are taking notice of her rather than a more age-appropriate group and that's on the author, not the characters.
@@nharber9837 not that there isn't any potential issue here, but I don't think creepy is a fair call here. We should all be more cautious of the distress our actions can cause.
I had a homeschooled friend that read both Christy Miller and Sierra Jensen. She got me to read the latter. One of the books featured a couple that didn't kiss until they married and even back then, as a full-blown evangelical Christian (I'm a Christian Deist now), I found it extremely strange. Been loving your videos!
This book is as hackneyed as a God's Not Dead movie. It really makes it clear how extreme your upbringing was if your parents wouldn't let you read something as explicitly pro-Christian and anti-"World" as this. Big yikes.
This brought back the memory of a Christian ya novel I got from my church library when I was in like middle school that scared the crap outta me. It started out harmless enough like this book with a girl going through life and whatnot, but out of nowhere there was a nightmare sequence and the girl runs up to another girl in her dream and when the girl she ran up to turns around, it’s not a girl at all but like the devil or a demon or something. That’s like the only thing that stuck with me about the book because I’ve had horrible night terrors all my life and this book just really fed into those and with like no warning. It had a cute colorful cover. And prayer didn’t help as well as it did in the books. I remember praying to God every night that I wouldn’t have any dreams because I was so scared. And then when I started having sleep paralysis, I found people online saying that was like demon possession. All I can say is thank God for deconstruction 😂
I just found your channel and appreciate you so much! As someone who spent 30 years as a Lutheran, the whole "being baptized as a baby doesn't make you a real Christian" line in the book gave me BIG flashbacks to peers from elementary school through college trying to evangelize me. I was always like, "Really, you're concerned about MY soul more than the atheist's over there? Also, the idea that your baptism doesn't count unless you CHOOSE it feels an awful lot like relying on works instead of grace." They didn't respond well to that haha. I haven't identified as a Christian for several years, but one of the best parts of being raised ELCA Lutheran is I have a strong theological education with which to rebut the toxic theology in so many Christain denominations.
When my husband died, I remember a lot of people using that opportunity to evangelize me. And apparently my non committal response of “raised Catholic” wasn’t enough for them to leave me alone. Because Catholic isn’t the right type of Christian
Being a teenager is all about growing into your own person, separating from your parents, learning to be more independent... Not very cult-compatible !
Purely from a secular perspective, while the 'power of prayer' can be derided for the problems it can cause when depending on it, it is actually quite likely that prayer can help with nightmares. Prayer, for better or worse, can place a person in a very relaxed state and indeed functions to overcome mental barriers like non-chronic anxiety. At least in the short run. Meditation can also produce these results for the most part.
this story brings up so many cheesy, embarrassing, traumatic, memories about being THIS kind of christian, and having THIS fairytale worldview. from watching a ton of your videos lately, i think i'd be one of those "cool" christians you grew up near. My mom was a diehard fundie, but my dad was "catholic in name only", so thankfully they balanced each other somewhat, and the whole vibe at home was a lot more relaxed than what you had to deal with. I'm also queer in that i'm afab, Non-Binary, asexual. Always got those backhanded comments about how "you'd be so pretty if you dressed more feminine". I definitely felt like an outcast in all of my friend groups. the only time i felt like i belonged was when i was able to bring one of my public school friends to my church youth group, and they didn't treat me like i was weird. there were 800+ students in my high school class, so there were a lot of other outcasts that i could fit in with, so i wasn't entirely lonely. I played bass in my youth group band, and was a "youth leader", but also wasn't able to make close friends in the church, even after being involved there for nearly 10 years. so that was a ramble... anyway, i am happy to have found your and Annie's channels. your content is incredibly validating. I've been calling my upbringing "cultlike" for a long time, but always felt that it wasn't fair to call it that if it didn't fit that stereotypical idea of cults. so thanks for validating that for me with your experiences.
Loved your summary and comments! As for the book... I think all we need to know the general thrust of its message is that the heroine is named "Christy." Subtle! I know this is an older video so you probably won't see this, but I'd love to know what you think your younger self would have thought of the evangelism, the portrayal of worldly non-Christian Alyssa, and the rather harsh "eulogy" message by Todd in front of Shawn's parents, etc. Would you have been annoyed then, or do you think you'd have accepted the message, if it was somewhat along the lines of your own family's beliefs?
an uncle (one of 9, raised catholic) had to be talked out giving a "talk" at one of my grandparent's funerals. An aunt talked him out of it. Thank goodness. >:(
Your mom let you read Redeeming Love but not this? We weren't allowed to read any of it no romance novels and no Christian teen books. Still today I don't appreciate either one of them, Although I consume a lot of material my parents would shame me heavily for today.
When I was growing up, I read American Girls stories, and Little House on the Prairie. I was not raised Christian. As for adolescence and "teenagers," ... I think that a lot of people in these circles want to get rid of the idea of teenagers because they want to go back to the "olden days" before there was a concept of teenager. Back then there wasn't a concept of adolescence or teenagers like there is today. Yes, it's about rebellion. But also back them, people grew up faster. People had responsibilities that we don't have today, like farming, and adolescence meant taking on more responsibility. Thus, all of that "rebellious" energy was channeled differently. They want to go back to those times. I also felt that judgment from Christians, that I was a worldly person.
I was raised Catholic I never read any of these Christian books. I read the kind of books you did as a kid. I also felt that the fundamentalist Christian kids with the biggest hypocrites
I think I read some of these books, but only when I ran out of other reading material. (I was a dedicated bookworm) It (and all those teenager books) didn't make much of an impression on me, as it was all extremely unlike real life, and not in an interesting way, just in a *scratch head* huh? *immediately forget what I read* kind of way. One Christian series that I quite enjoyed was about this foster girl called Libby, and her life and drama. My little sister and cousin were very into the Mandie books, but I found them too repetitive and predictable, while disliking the main character. But I'd still read them if there wasn't something else! My parents didn't ban books, but they did kind of hide the fact that they didn't ban books. (Well, once my mom found a book that I'd taken from the public library and looked at it and told me to stop reading it immediately. That was fair, it was hugely inappropriate for a young teen. She maybe should have taken looks at what I was reading more than she did, as I had some very disturbing images in my brain from free roaming through books. There's a lot of garbage out there!)
When Alyssa gave her worldly girl speech I was like "who hurt you?" I'm almost tempted to write Christy/Alyssa fanfiction where they unpack their trauma and have a good cry and kiss.
Make it so🙏 I want details 📝
IKR? I’m like damn girl? Are you a hardened war veteran?
I will pay you a lot of money for this to be created
Of all the things Christy’s parents warned her about that summer, it seems they forgot to warn her not to fall prey to a fundamentalist cult 🤦🏼♀️
They probably didn’t see that as a problem
Omg, I'm only partially in, but the idea of a girl being 'in the trenches' for going to public school hit me.. i was in public school my whole life, in a community of christians who moooostly did that (for an idea of the relative fundieness of my congregation, it was a mixed bag whether kids were allowed to read harry potter, but most kids went to public school or private lutheran school... so yeah, fundie but not quite cult)
but when I was 15, I switched to an audition-only arts high school, and when word got around that I was going there I got SO many people like 'it's such a challenge to go to environments like that, you have to stay strong' all around me at church.... little did they know I was already accepting that I'm a lesbian and on my way out
hooo boy the funeral part.... one of my sister's friends died by suicide in their senior year, I was a freshmen then, and i didn't know the guy at all but.. i remember my chief concern at the time being whether he went to heaven or hell. I think I even asked my sister at some point whether he was christian when he died.... not my finest moment.
i remember reading this series as a preteen/teen and it just baffles me how the author makes non-christians dismissive of death and grief even though evangelical christians are some of the most dismissive people when it comes to death and grief and any other emotion that isn’t “joy for the lord”
My parents didn't have me come to the hospital when my Grandpa was dying. They waited until he was dead. Want to know why? Because my dad was busy telling this 92-year-old, lifelong Quaker that he was going to hell because he wasn't saved. He wasted the last moments of my Grandpa's life with his Christian guilt.
Oh! They also forced me to touch my Grandma's body in the casket when I was FIVE to show me their wasn't a soul in there anymore. That it was just a husk. Fine. It's just a body. But I was FIVE.
That is stunning and horrible. I am so sorry this happened to you.
@@alexandrac591 fundies are soooo fun
I'm not never have been I don't think I've ever met a Quaker but they're probably a whole lot more "Christian" and better people than Fundies are. Sorry that happened to you and your grandpa.
I'm sorry that happened to you. What is a Quaker? I didn't grow up religious (thankfully) and I am unsure what a lot of it means
@@Oatmilllk Quakers believe that there is a light inside of every person. This is the unifying principle, which gives way to core beliefs like unity, equality, integrity, community, education, and peace. From there, beliefs differ, as there are different types of Quakerism. Mainly, Quakers reject dogma.
Ooooof. The way prayer is portrayed in that book! Ugh.
And the funeral scene... run, Christy! That lack of empathy indicates Todd is NOT a great candidate for healthy relationships.
This Christian (not a fundamentalist... grew up around enough of them to learn to steer clear), is very glad that you are pointing out the toxicity of extreme American fundamental evangelicalism.
My parents didn’t let me read anything where girl and boys dated each other because we were a “courting” family. 😂
Oh my god, I was borderline convinced that I’d hallucinated this whole book. Completely forgot about it
i wasn’t allowed to read the christy miller but i snuck it into my giant stack of books from the library on a day my mom was distracted and read it the second i got home, and was obsessed. 😂😭
"Alyssa sounds a lot like me! I was cynical and fatalistic, but not as self centered and materialist as her. My parents allowed to be sad and feel pain and be angry. I wound up with mental illness anyway, but that is another story. I got saved at the age of nine, couldn't figutr out what kind of sins that I needed to be forgiven for.
Robin Jones Gunn had lots of young women novels in the late 90s. I learned about suicide attempts (pills), cutting, abortion, etc, from them. I wish I hadn't had those ideas in my head as a young teen, who struggled with self esteem.
Why write like that? I prefer stories in which the good girl comes out a winner.
Don't resd them then.
I remember The Color Me series having a similar effect for me. Dealing with very difficult subjects in a way that I’m sure if I revisited now I don’t think were handled in a way I would want my daughter to be introduced to them.
Omg going through these comments is surfacing a whole lot of fever dream memories of book series that I completely devoured as a kid. I remember one about like, a girl in a band… living on a tour bus, can’t recall the series name, but I wanted her life. I bet if I could find that series now and reread, I wouldn’t feel the same… craziness.
I grew up in a completely different way than you (and am much older) but I discovered your wonderful, authentic channel and have really enjoyed hearing you describe your thinking. Plus, I love your ability to find humor in things and your gentle, empathetic touch when it comes to analyzing your life journey. You may no longer believe certain things, but you have found a way to hold grace for people, even those who were somewhat troubling in your life. That is a wonderful thing.
Thank you for reading all of these books and adding your own commentary. It helps ground the subject matter for me. If I try to read them on my own, I get caught up in terror and anxiety. I couldn't be more excited when I saw you read Love and Respect. That book haunted me, lol.
Your voice is so easy to listen to. I like that you read the book with different tones for different characters. You also make me laugh with your comments about the story.
I hope you keep doing this and that you have a good time as well! Thank you again!🌺
As someone who was raised heavily in the church but still went to public school, I remember being told that I was ‘in the trenches’ lol
I recently discovered your channel and I wanted to say thank you so much for doing what you do! You have such a warm and well-informed presence. As an ex-fundie myself, reexamining the past can be scary but your videos make it less so. Thank you for being courageous and passing along that courage to your viewers! ❤
I came at Robin Jones Gunn via her companion series Sierra Mae Jensen books, she's friends of Christie. I loved those books but they created a lot of shame in me and made me very anxious that I wasn't able to 'innocent' like her. There were the later college years books, and then Christie's newly wed books too. Also another spin off book about Katie. I ate them all up, but coming back at them now I realise a lot of my internalised shame at being a normal teenager was enforced by the books.
"I Was Baptized in the FUCKING OCEAN" is going to be the name of my debut thrash metal album...
Okay, but why did this trigger deep seated memories of reading Elsie Dinsmore books 💀
omg I had two boxed sets of these books when I was a tween. I barely remember them now.
Somehow relieved I wasn't the only one that wasn't allowed to go places by myself? It really sucked! And I'll take it a step further, every summer my youth group would do a summer camp type thing (we mostly did volunteer work) but the last day they would go to the beach (3+ hour in another state) and we were never allowed to go because "we don't trust other people and can't be there with you". That was the worst.
I read all the mainstream Christy Miller books and the Sierra Jensen ones. Omg. Listening to you reading it was such a trip for me... I owend them all and read them over and over.
I would love to see a version of Todd's funeral speech, except every time he mentions Jesus, it's replaced with "our lord and savior Abraham Lincoln", just to really show how fucking delusional and disrespectful that speech would be at a funeral.
Good video in giving your thoughts on Robin Jones Gunn's book Summer Promise and she actually has a few series out centering around Christy Miller and her friends. This book was written in the 1990s before text messaging and social media even existed though I do think email was in its early stages. Its been a while since I've read this book though I've read the follow up series and some of the things in her books are unrealistic. Most people are not going to marry a person they meet as a teenager though other YA books has this story line too not just Christian ones. Also evangelical Christians at that time had people who gave their testimonies as reformed sinners which made those who grew up in the church feel like their testimony wasn't good enough because they didn't necessarily do a lot of bad things. Also in that time frame the church youth group that I grew up in told young women that everyone would get married which wasn't necessarily true and I don't know if they continue to teach that or not which was an aspect of purity culture. They didn't want to hear you question that everyone would get married to someone that God would pick out for them.
Poor straw-woman Alyssa.
Everyone grieves differently. Anger and bitterness can be expressions of grief, too.
I really enjoy you reading
I think banning books is a major red flag.
If a book has messages that the parent/teacher/guardian does not approve of, I think there should be an open discussion about it.
Like with this book, if my child wanted to read it, I would let them. Then we would talk about why some parts of it are problematic
I love all your videos! You have a very engaging presentation style and your vulnerability is also very helpful for gaining insight into fundie culture. I didn’t grow up fundie but in college I tore involved in conservative Christianity and it had its own negative impact on me….
So happy you’re free!
Oh boy the part where you smacked your face into the book and said "What the fuck?!" That was a mood😄
Were you allowed to listen to Adventures in Odyssey? Even people today who are not christians still admit it is so great story wise!
There is a fantastic podcast called Adventures in Ideology where two sisters and various special guests break down the problematic stuff in that series as part of deconstruction. Love it
Please do the whole series! I love this. 😆
I have recently stumbled upon your videos and I am hooked watching them. I grew up Catholic but very relaxed. I believe it was very normal rather than forced. In my early 30’s I met a girl through the firm where I worked. She was about 10 years younger than me and was raised a Mormon. She met a boy through the church. Within a week of meeting him, they were engaged. I asked her if she was sure and whether she should ‘date’ a little while to see how he reacts to different situations, if they are indeed compatible long term etc. but she said their ‘bishop’ approved of the relationship. She was giddy with excitement and the simple act of walking down the street touching arms was thrilling for her. I couldn’t understand why that was a big deal. Not long after her engagement I changed jobs but bumped into her in another suburb some months later. She was married by that stage. Although she spoke to me she was desperately trying to end our conversation. I tried calling her but she avoided my calls. I now know why she did not want to have contact with me.
I for one find it so fascinating how evangelicals view “worldly” people as empty and blank. I was raised Catholic but I left it with at least support from my parents in early high school, but one reason I could never get into Jesus shit (besides everything) was that the whole religion in all it’s sects feels hollow and shallow. Idk if it’s just me, but it’s always felt like such an empty belief system that made me always think that those who are deep into it are empty and bland inside. It’s interesting hearing those that I interpret being that thinking the same of people like me
In watching videos on extreme fundamental groups and cults, i have noticed that they make normal teen behavior scandalized, such as having a crush, or even a puppy love type thing. However situations of molestation or grooming is viewed as ok. I remember some churches i had gone to as a tween, and teen, where i was made to feel bad for things like listening to pop music, or being "boy crazy"
Todd wept...like Jesus wept (now I'm weeping)
Uncle bob went from cool to creep real quick
Thank you for your insight. I have watched a few of your videos and they've already taught me so much.
When you said that your parents wanted you to prepare for being a "Helpmeet", I immediately thought of Debi and Michael Pearl with their books about being and preparing to be a helpmeet. Were you forced to read those books?
the dialogue in this story is so bad lmao
I totally read this as a kid!!! I think I was about 9 or something. My older sister had it in her bedroom in the basement and I was sleeping down there for some reason and I picked the book out of the bookshelf to read as I was falling asleep. I couldn't believe it!! I wondered because I saw the cover art, but I wasn't sure until after the makeover. I kinda liked it at that age, but also found it creepy that teenagers were so into church. My siblings and I weren't, but my parents were VERY into being pillars of the church, so we all had to read at least one fundie book as a kid. What a walk down memory lane!! Lmao
A lot of books for kids use the death of a friend as a plot device. Bye, friend! Now, what were we doing?? They just aren't very well written.
The first book of the American Girl Kirsten series has a similar death.
I can only imagine if my daughter had to witness her best friend being buried at sea. (It's been a few years. I think that's what happened).
At least with Kirsten it was supposed to be showing the reality of disease on ships and how many people didn’t make it to America. In Christys books it’s a lesson about using funerals to preach. 😬
I remember reading the Christy Miller series.
Can you do this for biblical fiction
That's a good idea!
He's already washing her with the word! lol (Gag me!)
Of course the characters are named Christy, short for Christ, and Todd, rhymes with God. Rolling my eyes...
Haha! I read books from that author. Did a book report on Michelle and Debra in 5th grade. It was written by some old guy and even then I knew it was weird for him to write about teen girl drama.
Wow, I completely forgot about those books, my grandpa bought those for me when I was 9 years ol as a gift
Love hearing you read this stuff. Might interest you but my Christian back story goes way back. I’m in my sixties now with two Grown up Sons to my First Wife (we divorced after eighteen years married) My second Wife Sharon is an agnostic and we had a civil wedding. We’ve been married coming up on nine years now. I can honestly say I have always believed in God. It’s just a faith, a belief, a kind of knowledge. It’s not something that requires proof or explanation. It’s just there like breathing is there…Nothing to do with miracles or anything like that …. I kind of learned the most about God as an undergraduate in my twenties. I met an amazing number of Anglican Monks and Nuns and they taught me about just contemplating before, that prayer was not just about saying words, it was part of being, feeling and experiencing.
My First Wife’s Mother (she converted to Catholicism on her death bed) always said ‘Tony you should have been a Priest.’
When the boys were young we joined the Salvation Army. In fact just before myself and my First Wife divorced the plan was that we would become SA Officers (She managed the Salvation Army Charity Shop) She is now I believe married to a guy she had an affair with while she was his manager in the shop. Divorce is painful and expensive)
Our youngest Son is Gay. Fantastic we both said. Good fir him. Love him to bits will always love him to bits
Salvation Army accept Gay people but won’t let them become officers.
Then Church just faded out for me. Never felt the need to go back but haven’t lost my faith in Jesus for one second.
Fundamentalists tell me I am unsaved and that ‘eternity is a very long time…..’ Is it I reply.
You know oddly enough I would even go back to Church. They would have to be fully accepting of all people and they should marry LBGTQI couples. They should also accept Women in all roles and that would include as ordained and non-ordained clergy.
What I don't really understand is what sin(s) Christy was supposed to have committed. The book doesn't seem to ever say -- just assume that of course everyone must necessarily have committed all sorts of sins. I know Christianity has this assumption that everyone is a sinner. In Roman Catholicism my understanding is that we're all sinners because everyone was conceived through sex; is that still the assumption? That, of course, is why it's said that Jesus was *conceived* without sin, but if it's impossible to go through life without sinning, wouldn't he have been a sinner too?
Not Sure If Catholics still believe the so called 'Original Sin' is passed on by Sex. I Just know 'original Sin' is passed on to every human.
Then there is the 'fall of man', you know, the whole eating the fruit thing. Which Christianity views as a point of time at which man chose to distrust God. And distrust destroys every relationship, so now we are caught up in not trusting him, not really knowing him, being emotionally distant from him, trying to maneuver through our life somehow (and of course sometimes suck at that 'job' and hurt people, nature etc.)
That is also what many Christians actually mean by the substantive 'a sin': a disconnection and barrier, not just a bad deed.
You could basically be the most generous, kind hearted philantropist ever - the distance and disconnect from God would still not be accounted for. And distance from God means distance from heaven.
About Jesus being conceived without sin... I hope you don't mean the doctrine of immaculate conception, that is a different thing. But yes, since Jesus is not the son of man he does not inherit the 'original sin'. He basically is the only human that is not a 'heir' to the 'original sin'.
And since he was always (as in: however long God has existed, but also later on earth) in a perfect union with his father God, without any of the messy human separation, and without breaking that bond to God the Father and God the Spirit: that means that that 'separation/distance' meaning of 'sin' is also not present in him. And it means he is able to always do the perfect will of God because he is in unity with him.
I hope this helps you a little bit to find your answers :)
We knew her family 's christianity wasn't good enough when she said she was baptised as a baby - clearly not a 'born again' church!
It doesn't have to mention God every sentence to be a Christian book, but this is certainly a border line fundamentalist book.
I have heard you mention it often and I still can not conjure up what in the world worship dance would like..
Maybe this was me growing up Jewish, but I don't get why someone who is already christian had to do extra stuff/ become "more" christinan? I thought she was already "saved". Is it just more indoctrination?
In the books of the renewed/peace covenant a similar thought of Amos 5,18-27 is brought up - that it is not the outward appearance that counts, but the true faith in G-d. It also has verses where it warns from such 'fakes' and commands to stay away from them. But it is also made VERY, VERY clear that Christians are not to separate just Willy-nilly. They are only allowed, and commanded to, when the true faith is not followed. But of course many Christians have many different opinions as to what would be such a 'stay away' case. So, for example, some Christians think baptism (Mikveh) at birth is such a case of 'fake' (=heresy) and thus of course not 'valid'. They baptize later. Others view the baptism of infants as 'valid' and thus for them you are actually a heretic If you were baptized under them as a baby, but later come to believe that that was a heresy and get baptized 'again'. The two viewpoints can not both be true at the same time. So there we have a separation. And that happens with many other Views as Well.
Parents in these books never speak like actual parents
My girlfriend's uncle is name Bob too. difference is that her uncle is gay and not a creep
Elly, you can still talk to God, just like you used to when you were a teenager. You said you found it comforting and you kind of miss it. Why not?
When you say 'They're definitely non-christians" do you mean they are non-fundamental christians? or do you mean that they are non christians at all?
Well, since for example there was one part where Christie is told "just to do what makes her happy" - that definately is not a *biblical* teaching.
Lowkey wondered if the reason is that I’m still single is because my mom made me go to ccd as a kid than I remember I’m an autistic social awkward person who also reads reader insert fanfics also in terms of parents who make them go to a Catholic after school thing they where pretty lenient. Now I’m a Wiccan so ha! 😆 still socially awkward but still
Sweet ,, lovely
I used to be obsessed with all these books and met the author. As an ex fundie, I cringe.
Major Chick Tract vibes lol
It gets soooo much worse as the series goes on if I am remembering it correctly
I’m sorry but I’m team Christy/Alyssa🏳️🌈👩❤️👩
Wow the profanity shocked me. 😲
lmao I know Christians that smoke pot!
I wasn’t allowed either but somehow I got my hands in them. Such trash. So cringe omg 🤪
This book is not Mormon. I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints and I can confirm that I have never seen this book and the doctrine being pushed is not the same. We still have our fair share of cringy novels😂 but, this is definitely not a Mormon book. It's just Christian.
By the way, we don't believe in the typical idea of hell, so if the book refers to God as God and not Heavenly Father or mentions hell, it's not Mormon. 😂 Also, our books would usually mention the temple and the different degrees of heaven. So, if the words are heaven and hell, it's not Mormon. 😂👍
I think she just mentions a different creator doing a similar series with a Mormon YA novel that inspired her to read a religious YA novel from her own youth, not that it's also mormon
I've just recently found your channel and I adore you! You're so eloquent, kindhearted and empathetic. I really admire you're work and your story. I come from the same background and it's amazing to feel less alone and understood. I wish you all the best, you're helping and inspiring so many! :)
Thank you so much!!
I think I can speak for everyone when I say that I’m so happy that you were able to overcome what was done to you. Please never feel alone ❤️
I never knew how badly fundamentalists indoctrinate their children. I grew up atheist. I have SO much respect for everyone who has to question what their life is based on and revolves around .
I wonder how Christy's family reacts when she returns from her vacation and she's been radicalized by fundies. Every reasonable parent's nightmare 😱
Please read the marriage years. I can’t help but wonder if the story and writing get any better. Also, I’m queer too, so even before you said it, I was thinking the line about the coconut oil wafting up was a bit homoerotic.
I looked up "Christy Miller," but found no such book. I've written novels myself, but no publisher would dare touch them.
Her heart's racing and she's noticing all these details about the girl on the beach (Vs the guys in the previous chapter who are 'college age and there's two of them')..? There is no heterosexual explanation for this, I wonder how many closeted readers made up fanfic about the pair of them... (I am also queer, in case this comes across as anything else!)
i read all the way up to the marriage years, and it doesn't get much better. todd gets more toxic too after they become married too, imo
@@alliemcmillan7072 he suuucks- the author wants to paint him as some hippy Jesus soooo bad, but he just comes across as this dirty lazy partner who doesn’t communicate or put any effort into his partner besides lecturing her about what she’s got wrong about God
I read this as a teen. I definitely remember wanting a “man” like Todd, who would be my spiritual leader. Eye fricken roll…
Ew, I did too. And I found Christy annoying too. I kept on trying to convince myself I was straight by reading that shit. Horrible.
I'm koo koo koo
This book would be so much better if it had just been a coming-out story for Christy and kept Uncle Bob as a groovy stay-at-home art dad instead of making him a creeper. I love how Todd isn't ever given a proper description, but Alyssa is.
they really did the whole : he smoked pot and then died and went to hell
Right??? They pulled out all the stops 🚬
A few thoughts:
* I had one of those dramatic "Jesus saved me at my lowest point" testimonies. Problem was, Jesus didn't actually do any such thing in any practical sense, and my "lowest point" continued for another few years until I gave up on the whole thing.
* My uncle died a few years ago, and at the funeral, one of the pastors gave a little speech that was just a cut & paste "Jesus died for your sins" evangelization. It was tacky and uncomfortable and nothing to do with my uncle or his grieving family. Objectifying evangelism at its worst.
* Sounds like I wasn't missing out on much not reading some of that Christian fiction. Ham-fisted, didactic narrative, cardboard cutout/strawperson characters. Sometimes I do miss some of the music tho. Sometimes.
Great thoughts, thanks for sharing!
I'm so sorry that happened at your uncle's funeral.
The same thing happened at my dad's funeral, and we weren't even religious. Made me so upset!
So, to some degree, I think uncle Bob's 'creepy' thing with the college guys is possibly not as creepy as you might have taken it... but I still have issues with it. I *suspect* that if she had suggested that he should invite them over he would have been shocked and not agreed. The point of his action wasn't to suggest she should be flirting with those boys but that she was deserving of attention. Consider Bob's point of view. He can see Christy is very self-conscious and seemingly unsure if she is attractive. To him, his actions are saying 'you are attractive and you should be confident; you are noticed and you should be'.
That said, I really don't know what the nodding to the college boys was about. Even in most negative takes on what Bob is doing this doesn't make sense. Other than as a 'I'm the sort of person who nods at people I've made vague eye contact with' thing... which I'm one such person... but the question becomes 'why was it mentioned'? Maybe the author was simply way to in the head space of what would happen in their mind that forgot that some details can be misleading. Anyway, that's my hot take.
I agree. It seemed to me that he was trying to tease her about being noticed by these guys in a misguided attempt to get her to relax a bit. As someone who grew up in a family full of such teasing, though rarely about people checking me out, it can still be harmful and cause a lack of trust in the people who are supposed to support you because it feels like your every action is being put through the cinema sins treatment. Bob made a poor decision but it definitely wasn't as creepy as the college guys that are taking notice of her rather than a more age-appropriate group and that's on the author, not the characters.
@@frejaolsen7240 yes, exactly.
@@nharber9837 not that there isn't any potential issue here, but I don't think creepy is a fair call here. We should all be more cautious of the distress our actions can cause.
I had a homeschooled friend that read both Christy Miller and Sierra Jensen. She got me to read the latter. One of the books featured a couple that didn't kiss until they married and even back then, as a full-blown evangelical Christian (I'm a Christian Deist now), I found it extremely strange. Been loving your videos!
I’m so sorry you had to grow up this way but so glad you got out of the cult, you are adorable!
This book is as hackneyed as a God's Not Dead movie. It really makes it clear how extreme your upbringing was if your parents wouldn't let you read something as explicitly pro-Christian and anti-"World" as this. Big yikes.
This brought back the memory of a Christian ya novel I got from my church library when I was in like middle school that scared the crap outta me. It started out harmless enough like this book with a girl going through life and whatnot, but out of nowhere there was a nightmare sequence and the girl runs up to another girl in her dream and when the girl she ran up to turns around, it’s not a girl at all but like the devil or a demon or something. That’s like the only thing that stuck with me about the book because I’ve had horrible night terrors all my life and this book just really fed into those and with like no warning. It had a cute colorful cover. And prayer didn’t help as well as it did in the books. I remember praying to God every night that I wouldn’t have any dreams because I was so scared. And then when I started having sleep paralysis, I found people online saying that was like demon possession. All I can say is thank God for deconstruction 😂
I just found your channel and appreciate you so much! As someone who spent 30 years as a Lutheran, the whole "being baptized as a baby doesn't make you a real Christian" line in the book gave me BIG flashbacks to peers from elementary school through college trying to evangelize me. I was always like, "Really, you're concerned about MY soul more than the atheist's over there? Also, the idea that your baptism doesn't count unless you CHOOSE it feels an awful lot like relying on works instead of grace." They didn't respond well to that haha.
I haven't identified as a Christian for several years, but one of the best parts of being raised ELCA Lutheran is I have a strong theological education with which to rebut the toxic theology in so many Christain denominations.
"He could help but doesn't, and we don't care!" Lol you got me!
I found you through Zelph! I'm exMormon too and love your content. So happy for how far you've come!
I would not have been allowed to read these either lmao. Too much “worldly” stuff
Haha totally! Glad I'm not the only one :)
Lol! “You were baptized as a baby? I was baptized in the f* ocean.” Lol hilarious
When my husband died, I remember a lot of people using that opportunity to evangelize me. And apparently my non committal response of “raised Catholic” wasn’t enough for them to leave me alone. Because Catholic isn’t the right type of Christian
Being a teenager is all about growing into your own person, separating from your parents, learning to be more independent... Not very cult-compatible !
3:26 ... developing your own sense of identity...
Yes, exactly!
Purely from a secular perspective, while the 'power of prayer' can be derided for the problems it can cause when depending on it, it is actually quite likely that prayer can help with nightmares. Prayer, for better or worse, can place a person in a very relaxed state and indeed functions to overcome mental barriers like non-chronic anxiety. At least in the short run. Meditation can also produce these results for the most part.
I read the entire series as it was actually available at my private Christian schools library!
I know this is an old video, but I love it! I wasn’t allowed to read this series either, but many of my friends did at church, so I secretly read it!
this story brings up so many cheesy, embarrassing, traumatic, memories about being THIS kind of christian, and having THIS fairytale worldview.
from watching a ton of your videos lately, i think i'd be one of those "cool" christians you grew up near. My mom was a diehard fundie, but my dad was "catholic in name only", so thankfully they balanced each other somewhat, and the whole vibe at home was a lot more relaxed than what you had to deal with. I'm also queer in that i'm afab, Non-Binary, asexual. Always got those backhanded comments about how "you'd be so pretty if you dressed more feminine". I definitely felt like an outcast in all of my friend groups. the only time i felt like i belonged was when i was able to bring one of my public school friends to my church youth group, and they didn't treat me like i was weird. there were 800+ students in my high school class, so there were a lot of other outcasts that i could fit in with, so i wasn't entirely lonely. I played bass in my youth group band, and was a "youth leader", but also wasn't able to make close friends in the church, even after being involved there for nearly 10 years.
so that was a ramble... anyway, i am happy to have found your and Annie's channels. your content is incredibly validating. I've been calling my upbringing "cultlike" for a long time, but always felt that it wasn't fair to call it that if it didn't fit that stereotypical idea of cults. so thanks for validating that for me with your experiences.
Hahahaha I love the advice that the non Christian relatives offer! So much more real and authentic and human!
I remember reading this entire series in middle school. At the time I remember enjoying it!
But your mom let you read Redeeming Love?!?! Whaaa
My gay a ss interpreted Christy and Alissa as sapphics as soon as she Alissa appeared.
Loved your summary and comments! As for the book... I think all we need to know the general thrust of its message is that the heroine is named "Christy." Subtle! I know this is an older video so you probably won't see this, but I'd love to know what you think your younger self would have thought of the evangelism, the portrayal of worldly non-Christian Alyssa, and the rather harsh "eulogy" message by Todd in front of Shawn's parents, etc. Would you have been annoyed then, or do you think you'd have accepted the message, if it was somewhat along the lines of your own family's beliefs?
an uncle (one of 9, raised catholic) had to be talked out giving a "talk" at one of my grandparent's funerals. An aunt talked him out of it. Thank goodness. >:(
Your mom let you read Redeeming Love but not this? We weren't allowed to read any of it no romance novels and no Christian teen books. Still today I don't appreciate either one of them, Although I consume a lot of material my parents would shame me heavily for today.
When I was growing up, I read American Girls stories, and Little House on the Prairie. I was not raised Christian. As for adolescence and "teenagers," ...
I think that a lot of people in these circles want to get rid of the idea of teenagers because they want to go back to the "olden days" before there was a concept of teenager. Back then there wasn't a concept of adolescence or teenagers like there is today. Yes, it's about rebellion. But also back them, people grew up faster. People had responsibilities that we don't have today, like farming, and adolescence meant taking on more responsibility. Thus, all of that "rebellious" energy was channeled differently. They want to go back to those times.
I also felt that judgment from Christians, that I was a worldly person.
I was raised Catholic I never read any of these Christian books. I read the kind of books you did as a kid. I also felt that the fundamentalist Christian kids with the biggest hypocrites
I think I read some of these books, but only when I ran out of other reading material. (I was a dedicated bookworm)
It (and all those teenager books) didn't make much of an impression on me, as it was all extremely unlike real life, and not in an interesting way, just in a *scratch head* huh? *immediately forget what I read* kind of way.
One Christian series that I quite enjoyed was about this foster girl called Libby, and her life and drama.
My little sister and cousin were very into the Mandie books, but I found them too repetitive and predictable, while disliking the main character. But I'd still read them if there wasn't something else!
My parents didn't ban books, but they did kind of hide the fact that they didn't ban books. (Well, once my mom found a book that I'd taken from the public library and looked at it and told me to stop reading it immediately. That was fair, it was hugely inappropriate for a young teen. She maybe should have taken looks at what I was reading more than she did, as I had some very disturbing images in my brain from free roaming through books. There's a lot of garbage out there!)
I think a great storyline for one of these novels would be a poor girl torn between two cults ...