APT Advance Passanger Train
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- 1980's Tilting Train that ran into project difficulties. Video has APT footage and a summary of the project management philosophy and the merits of research and development.
It is now widely believed that you cannot have a succesful project if it is launched to the accompanyment of synthesizer music. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I got involved in with the APT which when a it had a SPAD at Weaver Jcn. When I went to question the driver, there was already a veritable galaxy of senior management on the train. It was carrying fare paying passengers from Glasgow to Euston. Alas, they didn't get beyond Crewe as we terminated the train there and tipped all the passengers out on a snowy platform for more conventional, service forward. Shame it wasn't a success but let's remember that the HST is still a winner, 30 odd years on.
"It is now widely believed that you cannot have a succesful project if it is launched to the accompanyment of synthesizer music." You sir, are a GOD!
the sea sicknes wasnt just because of the tilt, big pr event had a lot of complimentary drink, and not just teas and coffees ... and well apparently that's more the cause of the sickness than the tilt
The gas-turbine APT-E is at the NRM (National Railway Museum) in York. One of the electric APT-Ps is being restored in Crew.
Incredible to see this footage. The APT was such a fantastic looking train. :(
Fantastic. I saw it when I was about 6 and it still sticks in my mind. Such a shame. Thanks for the vid
continued -
2. BR Liquid Hospitality (or rather journalists enjoying it too much) gave rise to the "travel sickness" reports.
3. A particularly cold winter when the train went into passenger service which caused the standard air brakes to freeze thus reducing low speed braking efficiency.
4. A weak government who were more interested in the roads than spending the small amount needed to productionise this prototype train.
It was the only train that the driver got a better ride than the passenger. You didn't get burst eardrums going into tunnels as the cab was so well sealed, when you closed the cab door a seal inflated around it. The actual driving was just the same as any loco. The braking did take a bit of getting used to they should have stuck to the tried and trusted rheostatic braking that was awsesome and worked, still if you don't try you don't learn.
Its real shame, an absolute shame that the APT never became a reality. With the slightest bit more money, Intercity could have become the world beating railway company! The situation of today could have been reversed, where rather than the Italians flogging Pendolino's to us, we could have been flogging APT's to them, 20 years ago! We could even have flogged some to the United States to replace the GG-1's rather than waiting for the non-tilting AEM7 and ACELA trains.
Ever been to a country called Japan? Britain could never and would never have kept up. Far too risk averse.
I drove this on test runs between Carlisle and Carnforth as a secondman back in the 80's. It was sabatoged by the engineers, can't say much more sorry. I still have the original timetable that it should have run but was cancelled. I sat as a passenger on it as we had to take rest periods on the test runs as they were run on saturday nights and sundays when the track was closed for testing at full speed and I never felt sick. who says it wouldnt go uphill thats a load of balls. it went up shap ok
The problem with APT wasn't technical (remember Ford & Dain?), but it didn't make commercial sense. To justify the higher capital and maintenance costs of a tilting train, significant journey time benefits are necessary. This is achieved by reducing point to point journey times by increasing train speed, but as soon as you increase the differences between the speeds of trains using a section of line, capacity is reduced; mitigation measures are therefore necessary. If you look at the WCML in recent years, there has been four-tracking in the Trent Valley and the maximum speeds of class 350s has been increased to PARTIALLY use the benefits brought by Pendolinos, but without further significant investment the 140mph capability of these tilting trains can't be used. And this is the main problem; with a railway line running nearly at capacity - as is the WCML - the benefits brought about by tilting trains can't be enjoyed unless all trains are tilting or there is sufficient investment in additional infrastructure to enable a mix of tilting and non-tilting trains to operate. And quite simply, such investment just couldn't get through the investment appraisal process mandated to BR by central government; moreover, if our railways hadn't been privatised, we wouldn't have Pendolinos either - when ALL costs associated with their introduction are taken into account, they are probably a poor investment and wouldn't get through the investment appraisal process BR had to use
amazing
Up there with the Jensen FF.
Around 1979 or there abouts.The APT-E came out in the early 1970's.
A classic example of "what could have been". It was technology that was ahead of its time, and the money to further develop it just didn't exist in the late 1970s/early 1980s Britain.
I'd be curious to know if any APT examples still exist, in museums or otherwise.
I rode this train on every passenger run(and a couple as a guest of the testers of the compuerised systems)..and I kept all my passes and tickets purchased too.(sad eh?)
A fantastic machine when working properly (10th apr 1985) 2 complete passenger runs with no problems. I belive it was a case of the money and political will ran out,a change of managment structure who could have put the case for APT to government migh have saved it.
Not only us Enoch Powell driving the train, but doesn't David Rollin look remarkably like Alan Partridge?!!
Never heard of any problems with the axles?
From what I know 4 things killed APT.
1. A rushed launch into service. Not all the problems were ironed out including the hydrokinetic braking system - however these could be fixed and were fixed (unfortunately after the decision had been made to axe the designed) - coontinued on next post
I Was on a Pendolino recently.
Irony is that BR gave the APT tilting technology to Italy, who then developed it properly, then sold it back to Britain as the Pendolino tilting trains. Hence why there are plenty of them dashing along right past the museum-piece-mothballed APT in Crewe.
APT was a cool train, just a little too clever for its own good with the tilt being a bit too strong (tended to make one queasy, bug it was rectified in the end before it was given up) and it got horrible press and mired in the British political scene of the time.
Excellent vid. I think it's sick that Britain made a tilting train that would have worked if the Government funded it, but they didn't. Since then, the tilting train has become a Worldwide success, yet Britain gets no credit for it. Absolutely disgusting.
David Rollins there kids! the same man who ushered in the class 91 that was also initially riddled with faults!
great film, do you have the rest?
i traveled on some of these units in the early eighties euston - preston for staff runs before they entered service when i worked for BR , never felt sick at all ? would pay today to travel again. todays emu,s lack something, maybe seats !!!
the 80s and early 90s railway ran so much better before nationalised,
Somebody out there should start restoring the APT, and operate it, compete against the successor Pendolinos. Run her on thr High Speed 1 for speedtests, mass produce her for commercial use. It's a shame a great train is left to rot just like that.
Shame not all 16 coaches are available though.
@Sqaaak - Very well said sir, very well said!
yeah, crank that synth music baby! :D
@ts3830 APT-E never ran in service. The APT-P record was in full passenger service.
I thought the one at crewe was owned by music producer, and confirmed train ned, pete waterman
aye same, it would be nice to see one in running serive instead of sitting in pete waterman's yard
It isn't the governments fault. Maybe if BR had been properly run (or if the railways hadn't been nationalised at all) then maybe APT would have worked out.
Not to mention the tilt technology was very iffy at first, causing sea sickness on one PR trip.
The problem with APT was the risk averse country it was developed and launched in.
Still the same country. Just waiting for APT2 (HS2) to fail.
no, i do work on it now
What year did these trains come out originally?
the man in 3.18 lips are out of sink
@flanneryged - Not quite true, a number of railways reopened in the the Thatcher years, Oxford to Bicester being a good example. not to mention that Birmingham Snow Hill was reopened in the Thatcher years, along with a handful of new services, some of which on disused tracks. There were more rail reopening in England during the Thatcher years than there have been in the last 13 years of Labour. Not to mention that it is Labour who cannot find the money to reopen a railway but fund a busway
Britain could have easily ruled the Iron way once again!
i work on the apt-p
I never had any brake issuses, tilt system failed due to the onboard computers !!! gearboxes failed due to incorected oil put in and some cases no oil at all. It's all down to the usual goverment run industry mentality just throw money at the problem but in the totaly wrong direction and the wrong people in charge.
@adodgygeeza but they had £2bn for the Concorde project!
0:14 ooh look! its Enoch Powell at the helm!
@ssssroryssss2 Think it's still sitting in a siding at Crewe...but it is owned by NRM. Its a shame really, we invented the tilting train (I don't think the original TGV design had that?) and as usual, we waste it. Typical British Rail...
Up there with the Jensen FF.
amazing