Thanks for this. We're 90% happy with our 2019 MoCo Yari 180mm's. It seems to be in the fast chunk where they need some help. Not ready to go $Charger 2.1 yet, nor do I need high and low speed adjustability. Hoping to get this shim printed, so we can install at time of fork service before riding season!
My 2021 Yari came with way too much oil in the damper from the factory. This will prevent you from getting full travel and contribute to harsh spiking as well as possibly breaking your damper. So in addition to this shim hack, I ordered a Fork Syringe Level Gauge. I measured the length to the bottom of the damper to the top thread just at the base of the black o-ring seal below the top cap. The motion control dampener should only be dipped in the oil bath 6 to 9 mm. This tip was given to me directly from a technician at SRAM. ...Now I may not upgrade to Charger 2.1 damper. It's worked great for my local trails. The real test will be high speed breaking bumps at the bike park but I'm not sure I'll have a chance to get to one before the end of season this year to really test it out.
Great video and explanation, it is a shame you discontinued the project but I understand. I am currently stuck with a Yari MoCo that beats me up in high speed hits and I will try this mod, see if it does improve my fork. What I don't get is the limit on shim thickness. Why would be a bad thing to make the HSC circuit engage earlier (more shims)? You mentioned something about the lockout but I didn't quite understand. Basically you would reduce the ammount of weight it takes to open the HSC and enable a higher transfer of oil FASTER and without spiking. Maybe what you are trying to say is that it will affect the performance under braking or other LSC actions? Thank you.
Well with way too much shim the high speed will just be held open. At that point the fork will ride like it’s broken. It’s a balancing act, if you go to thick you won’t be able to get enough low speed and it’ll feel wallowy and sluggish.
@@leafydialupking1 Understand. Then if the amount of force it takes to open the HSC circuit can be tuned via shims, why shouldn't the MoCo ride as good as other dampers? Is it that the HSC ports are too small? Because basically it works as any other damper, the "delay" of waiting for the HSC ports to open on a bump happens on any fork. If you can tune this delay via shims/opening more the ports, wouldn't this make it substantially better? Or there is a limiting factor I don't know about? Lots of questions, sorry about that ;)
Other dampers with shim stacks the transition out of the state where all the flow it’s through the low speed needle and most of the flow is through the high speed circuit is gradual. The shims start to open early and slightly. Moco works like a poppet style high speed circuit with a very very high spring rate, so you end up with nothing at all flowing through the high speed circuit until a certain point and then it more or less opens all the way. So at best you can get a damper that’s decently supportive but a little harsh on trail chatter that doesn’t complete blow through its travel on big hits. Out of the box you get something that is brutal on medium sized hits because it’s high speed circuit doesn’t open till really big hits, especially if you run the Lsc adjuster full open which you kind of have to or else it’s really too harsh on small stuff.
@@leafydialupking1 Oh well. With your 0.2mm shim mod, which settings did you have that worked best? Any compression at all (the blue dial) and what about rebound/sag. I might try to get the best of it without modifying it too much and see if I end up with something decent (on the bike park, braking bumps are just a massacre right now). If not I'll start drilling and try to place shims. Thank you.
Was considering a Domain 38mm fork but it comes with this plastic spring breakable thingy... for the same price i can get a suntour durolux with a much more durable (and better arguably) IFP damper (they call it PCS).
I have that damper in the Rux on my new to me down hill bike and it’s friggen amazing. I think it was serviced wrong last time and it has original 2017 dust seals and the small bump is close to my Dvo emerald.
It's thin enough that you probably aren't going to be able to hold it in a mill. Easy enough to cut it out of a piece of shim stock with some shears and punch the slot in it with a flathead screw driver.
Thanks for this interesting video! Have you experimented with different shim thicknesses? The other option is to drill the three holes in the bottom plastic to a bit bigger diameter. What do you think? Should I combinde the two solutions or just stick with your spacer solution. (I'm using my yari for rough rocky "DH" stuff) TIA!
I tried more shims and that basically put it always in the high speed circuit, which was awful. And making a thinner one would be more difficult, I would have only done that if I wasn't satisfied with what I had. I would not make the holes larger, that's just going to act like turning the adjuster more to the left and give you less low speed damping. Which I really wanted more of our of my fork, but without the shim it just resulted in a super harsh ride in the chunk. I'm also working on something else right now that you might be even more interested in, but development got delayed by my broken shoulder.
@@leafydialupking1 Ok, clear! Get well soon! Am I understood right that you say 10 thou (0,254mm) is the thickness of the shim? The minimum thickness what we can print is 0,2 mm, so I'll try that, and the 0,25. I'm really interested in your new project! I hope, that I won't miss it! When do expect to finish it?
@@bodispal and thanks for the well wishes, I've just started to get back on the bike a couple weeks ago, 3 months after my crash, and I'm definitely not 100%.
@@leafydialupking1 Be careful. RS has changed the size of the poppet valve stem head. The slot in the shim in the link is too small. Should be 10mm instead of 8mm. Easy to fix in the file, though.
Nice mod. I actually did exactly the same thing a few years back. It made the super rigid lockout into a more useable pedal platform. Definitely worth doing. Nobody except complete noobs want to have a super strong lockout..
No kidding. They hype it up as still being able to move if you hit bumps when locked out but I once locked this thing or on the street after hitting some trails and hit a sharp bump in road. Nearly knocked me down, since I was expecting it to move.
Man that sucks. The design of this fork works pretty ok for how simple it is once you’ve set the right gap for the high speed opening. But RSs tolerance is too big to make most of them good. I’d recommend adjusting the gap like my shim does, or if you have no gap when assembled to file a little off the blue shaft.
I'm getting there. I actually have been riding the future development since last year but I broke my shoulder last June so development slowed and I'm in the middle of some big house projects so that's slowing me down too. I would still expect an update video in the next few weeks.
Looks like something I'm going to try while doing my fork service. May I ask, do you think it will fit RS Revelation RC? (it's the motion control version, not the mission control one)
@@Morpci it doesn't need to stand up to much force. Anything that would destroy this shim would have bent the spindly aluminum shaft it goes on the end of first.
@@leafydialupking1 One more Q, Do you know if there's a drop in cartridge like the mission control which will behave better than the motion control? I don't think I'm willing to spend too much for a charger upgrade but instead invest in a new fork and sell this one. Thanks!
@@Morpci charger is the cheapest one you can buy. I'm working through the development of one myself though. That's the other project I alluded to in some other comments.
Hi. Anyone competently install this shim at 0.2mm and got some insightful feedback for the thread? Specifically the problem of hitting extended sections of fast root and rocks, and Moco not being supple enough - you get aching hands, lack of control, performance is just poor in that situation. Does this shim improve it much? Thanks, I realise this is an old thread!
Quick Google makes it seem that the domain 318 is an adjustable motion control so you don't need to do this to adjust the high speed compression activation point.
Thanks for this. We're 90% happy with our 2019 MoCo Yari 180mm's. It seems to be in the fast chunk where they need some help. Not ready to go $Charger 2.1 yet, nor do I need high and low speed adjustability.
Hoping to get this shim printed, so we can install at time of fork service before riding season!
Hope it works out how you want.
My 2021 Yari came with way too much oil in the damper from the factory. This will prevent you from getting full travel and contribute to harsh spiking as well as possibly breaking your damper. So in addition to this shim hack, I ordered a Fork Syringe Level Gauge. I measured the length to the bottom of the damper to the top thread just at the base of the black o-ring seal below the top cap. The motion control dampener should only be dipped in the oil bath 6 to 9 mm. This tip was given to me directly from a technician at SRAM. ...Now I may not upgrade to Charger 2.1 damper. It's worked great for my local trails. The real test will be high speed breaking bumps at the bike park but I'm not sure I'll have a chance to get to one before the end of season this year to really test it out.
Great to hear!
Great video and explanation, it is a shame you discontinued the project but I understand. I am currently stuck with a Yari MoCo that beats me up in high speed hits and I will try this mod, see if it does improve my fork.
What I don't get is the limit on shim thickness. Why would be a bad thing to make the HSC circuit engage earlier (more shims)? You mentioned something about the lockout but I didn't quite understand. Basically you would reduce the ammount of weight it takes to open the HSC and enable a higher transfer of oil FASTER and without spiking. Maybe what you are trying to say is that it will affect the performance under braking or other LSC actions? Thank you.
Well with way too much shim the high speed will just be held open. At that point the fork will ride like it’s broken. It’s a balancing act, if you go to thick you won’t be able to get enough low speed and it’ll feel wallowy and sluggish.
@@leafydialupking1 Understand. Then if the amount of force it takes to open the HSC circuit can be tuned via shims, why shouldn't the MoCo ride as good as other dampers? Is it that the HSC ports are too small? Because basically it works as any other damper, the "delay" of waiting for the HSC ports to open on a bump happens on any fork. If you can tune this delay via shims/opening more the ports, wouldn't this make it substantially better? Or there is a limiting factor I don't know about?
Lots of questions, sorry about that ;)
Other dampers with shim stacks the transition out of the state where all the flow it’s through the low speed needle and most of the flow is through the high speed circuit is gradual. The shims start to open early and slightly. Moco works like a poppet style high speed circuit with a very very high spring rate, so you end up with nothing at all flowing through the high speed circuit until a certain point and then it more or less opens all the way. So at best you can get a damper that’s decently supportive but a little harsh on trail chatter that doesn’t complete blow through its travel on big hits. Out of the box you get something that is brutal on medium sized hits because it’s high speed circuit doesn’t open till really big hits, especially if you run the Lsc adjuster full open which you kind of have to or else it’s really too harsh on small stuff.
@@leafydialupking1 Oh well. With your 0.2mm shim mod, which settings did you have that worked best? Any compression at all (the blue dial) and what about rebound/sag. I might try to get the best of it without modifying it too much and see if I end up with something decent (on the bike park, braking bumps are just a massacre right now). If not I'll start drilling and try to place shims. Thank you.
@@iasha740 I actually went with the factory recommended settings for sag, tokens, and rebound and had Lsc around half. Iirc.
Was considering a Domain 38mm fork but it comes with this plastic spring breakable thingy... for the same price i can get a suntour durolux with a much more durable (and better arguably) IFP damper (they call it PCS).
I have that damper in the Rux on my new to me down hill bike and it’s friggen amazing. I think it was serviced wrong last time and it has original 2017 dust seals and the small bump is close to my Dvo emerald.
what are the dimensions of the shim that you made. I was thinking of machining one out of stainless steel. Thanks for your help
It's thin enough that you probably aren't going to be able to hold it in a mill. Easy enough to cut it out of a piece of shim stock with some shears and punch the slot in it with a flathead screw driver.
Thanks for this interesting video! Have you experimented with different shim thicknesses? The other option is to drill the three holes in the bottom plastic to a bit bigger diameter. What do you think? Should I combinde the two solutions or just stick with your spacer solution. (I'm using my yari for rough rocky "DH" stuff) TIA!
I tried more shims and that basically put it always in the high speed circuit, which was awful. And making a thinner one would be more difficult, I would have only done that if I wasn't satisfied with what I had.
I would not make the holes larger, that's just going to act like turning the adjuster more to the left and give you less low speed damping. Which I really wanted more of our of my fork, but without the shim it just resulted in a super harsh ride in the chunk.
I'm also working on something else right now that you might be even more interested in, but development got delayed by my broken shoulder.
@@leafydialupking1
Ok, clear!
Get well soon! Am I understood right that you say 10 thou (0,254mm) is the thickness of the shim? The minimum thickness what we can print is 0,2 mm, so I'll try that, and the 0,25.
I'm really interested in your new project! I hope, that I won't miss it! When do expect to finish it?
@@bodispal hopefully I'll have something to show in the spring.
@@bodispal and thanks for the well wishes, I've just started to get back on the bike a couple weeks ago, 3 months after my crash, and I'm definitely not 100%.
You said the shim was printed. Do you have a stl to share? What material.
Sorry for the delay, upgraded my computer and had to find it again. www.prusaprinters.org/prints/37419-rockshox-motion-control-floodgate-shim
@@leafydialupking1 thanks
@@leafydialupking1 Be careful. RS has changed the size of the poppet valve stem head. The slot in the shim in the link is too small. Should be 10mm instead of 8mm. Easy to fix in the file, though.
Nice mod. I actually did exactly the same thing a few years back. It made the super rigid lockout into a more useable pedal platform. Definitely worth doing. Nobody except complete noobs want to have a super strong lockout..
No kidding. They hype it up as still being able to move if you hit bumps when locked out but I once locked this thing or on the street after hitting some trails and hit a sharp bump in road. Nearly knocked me down, since I was expecting it to move.
InstaBlaster...
@@arjunnickolas8791 Dude. Here we're talking motion control damper and all you say is "instablaster". Weird.
Help !!!my old mc forks are fine .new 38mm domain is on off switch!!????
Man that sucks. The design of this fork works pretty ok for how simple it is once you’ve set the right gap for the high speed opening. But RSs tolerance is too big to make most of them good. I’d recommend adjusting the gap like my shim does, or if you have no gap when assembled to file a little off the blue shaft.
Any advancement on your mods? Feedback? The 35, Revelation and Yari are a big market.
I'm getting there. I actually have been riding the future development since last year but I broke my shoulder last June so development slowed and I'm in the middle of some big house projects so that's slowing me down too. I would still expect an update video in the next few weeks.
@@leafydialupking1 Well I am interested! Hope the shoulder is healing up well. Looking forward to it 🤙🏻
Here it is MoCo Replacement Damper
th-cam.com/video/pnmcHPPo1qo/w-d-xo.html
Looks like something I'm going to try while doing my fork service.
May I ask, do you think it will fit RS Revelation RC? (it's the motion control version, not the mission control one)
It should I did this on a revelation 35
@@leafydialupking1
Thanks.
Why didn't you go with a metal shim? plastic one isn't too fragile?
@@Morpci it doesn't need to stand up to much force. Anything that would destroy this shim would have bent the spindly aluminum shaft it goes on the end of first.
@@leafydialupking1
One more Q,
Do you know if there's a drop in cartridge like the mission control which will behave better than the motion control?
I don't think I'm willing to spend too much for a charger upgrade but instead invest in a new fork and sell this one.
Thanks!
@@Morpci charger is the cheapest one you can buy. I'm working through the development of one myself though. That's the other project I alluded to in some other comments.
Hi. Anyone competently install this shim at 0.2mm and got some insightful feedback for the thread? Specifically the problem of hitting extended sections of fast root and rocks, and Moco not being supple enough - you get aching hands, lack of control, performance is just poor in that situation. Does this shim improve it much? Thanks, I realise this is an old thread!
Awesome work @singletracklumberjack !
Looking to do this mod on a 32mm RS Revelation World cup with black box motion control.
I think black box has this same feature adjustable without having to shim.
will it work with domain 318?
Quick Google makes it seem that the domain 318 is an adjustable motion control so you don't need to do this to adjust the high speed compression activation point.