So what I want to know is how much difference would those three layers of mail + period underlayers make if someone were to knee you in the groin while they were in a plate leg harness? Yes the question assumes you have either be unhorsed or are engaging in foot combat to begin with, but the most famous codpiece I know of was Henry the 8ths from his unused field of cloth of gold foot armor.
I keep threatening to make my husband a plate codpiece in the armour shop, but it would be for show (and the fun of making it), it wouldn't be for fighting. The last thing I imagine you'd want is to be hit in a codpiece that's not quite in the right place as you're moving around because in all our fantasy armour experiments, nothing wants to stay between the legs like that, I feel like it would risk either pinching things you'd rather not get pinched while you're moving in general or concentrating pressure somewhere you'd really rather not have concentrated pressure when struck... In our fight group, anyone who wants groin protection wears a standard cup underneath everything. And most of us have articulating faulds that go down pretty low too, and some of the bigger gambesons are long enough to offer some protection. Some wear chain voiders, some don't, if we used sharp swords I'd have a lot more chain on my plate than I do, but we work with rebated stage blades because we like re-useable opponents... We always assumed for cavlary, the saddle would protect the groin, I would worry about chafing wearing a codpiece on a saddle... but then I personally get chafing and bruises from anything that's not breeches or chaps between me and a saddle (only wore my armour on a horse once for a 5 minute pony ride, though I rode horses for about 30 years) and I wouldn't wear a codpiece anyways because groin hits are less of a concern when your, uh, personal equippment is ...uh, internal :P (not that they're zero concern, I have been dropped to my knees in martial arts when I ran into a knee at high velocity, bruised pubic bones aren't much fun either). Thaks for a fun video!
First off let me say that's a lot of bunny videos. I was expecting to see more about an armour shop, or something related to LARPping and HEMA. An example of you can never judge a book by its cover. On the topic, yeah the human anatomy is difficult to understand, we still today have difficulty in making the correct type of protection equipment. Also with clothing when you are trying to balance between comfort and being fashionable. I personally have experience it from a military and martial arts perspective, and it was always a situation of deciding whether to be comfortable or having the extra protection. The weather was another factor that would play a significant role in making those decisions sometimes, but not always. There's also a curve time period in which you just have to adapt and get used to it. That was the hardest part.
@@tatumergo3931 Heh, yeah, my channel doesn't represent all my interests, just the fluffy one who doesn't care about video editing. My husband and I started doing armouring and armoured fighting about fifteen years ago and took over the armouring part of the shop after our mentor passed away from cancer. We usually end up doing our demonstrations in hot weather (where you learn real fast not tl leave steel armour in the sun) but now and then we get to enjoy a cool day for a demonstration, and once I even had to put a heat pack in my gambeson before putting on armour that had been in my below-freezing garage for one winter engagement. But on the balance between comfort and protection, I find that pops up in most aspects of my life. I wear steel toed boots to work all the time, even when I'm just cleaning a building, I never wear shorts to work or to the garden because I need that extra armour point from cloth, I never failed to wear a helmet on my horse, I always belt up in the car and I always wear a full bee suit when I'm out in the apiary. I wear an underwire bra to Aikido to aovid bruised sideboob from being pinned even though I generally can't stand the things othewise. I wear prescription lenses so often don't bother with safety glasses except in the metal shop or when using power tools. I wear a respirator when I clean the rabbit pen (allergies). It's all a matter of weighing risk vs comfort, but with armour, one of my friends likes to say, when you first start fighting you armour EVERYTHING, then as you realize what does and doesn't get hit, you start removing armour until you start getting hit again, then you add it back :) Same friend always wears a cup after getting nutted by a mace in an SCA event. As an example, I'd feel perfectly comfortable fighting without my breastplate/backplate on if it wasn't holding up other pieces of my armour, literally the only dents on my breastplate are from the "look how hard he can hit me and I don't feel a thing" part of our demonstrations. And I added lames to my half-gauntlets after getting the sides of my knuckles pinched off by sword strikes more than once. Generally now the only bruises I get are from carrying my armour to the venue :)
@@bunhelsingslegacy3549 . Aikido!? Yeah I remember Aikido, I used to get more hurt there than when I was doing judo or karate-do. Some people just don't know how to be a good uke and flow....
@@tatumergo3931 Some dojos are "harder" than others, ours aims to be on the softer side, we're very much "blend, don't block". Most of the injuries I've sustained in Aikido have been from my own lack of awareness of where my body is, like dropping my uke directly onto my big toe, or landing a breakfall where I am throwing myself, not being thrown, on the point of my shoulder, I'm just glad my mistakes only hurt me and not someone else. Though with my hypermobile joints I do have to remind some people that I don't have much warning zone between "OK" and "VERY NOT OK!" and to please go slow on any joint locks. And I'm really hesitant to work with peoole I don't know at seminars, had some bad experiences with people using force instead of skill. The class I was teaching last night, I was making everyone channel their inner noodle, do not resist, if you don't resist you don't give them anything to work with and they just melt, I even got through to some of the really strong rigid types and we were all having fun trying to be strong as uke when the nage was not!
@@coop5329 .......Black Death and the middle class. People were less concerned about being vulgar because following the teachings of the catholic church failed to there family from dieing from the plague and from them falling ill. Middle class want to assert their new social class, set them apart from the lower class and give the social middle finger to the nobility.
The simplest sophomoric answer is Sex, they were having more Sex. As PJDAltamirus mentioned the Black plague decimated quite a lot of the population. Entire cities and towns ended up empty or nearly empty, the few survivors just wanted to celebrate life and being alive. The strict securalistic morals of the past were no longer accepted or care for. It was one of the reasons for the beginning of the Renaissance, an explosion in arts and sciences which gave us all those works of art which depicted the naked human body. An exploration into the study of human anatomy and new philosophical and theological ideas.
One of the things we failed to see today is the type of clothing that was worn underneath the armour. Modern clothes don't allow for the same type of comfort, as clothing from the time period. For example a loincloth tends to wrap and hold those parts closer and more tightly to the body, than modern boxer shorts or briefs do. Modern leggings of today are also a very poor representation of braies of the age.
i was wearing medieval woolen hose, and medieval shoes, i used a lendenier to suspend it, as per historical practice, i wore modern clothes on the upper body, and a t-shirt under the curass, indeed. but that really doesn't change the functioning of the piece.
I have honestly never considered the interaction with the saddle, and the effect on riding. Fascinating.
I'm sculpting some knights at the moment, and this was so useful. Thank you!
Now the ones that could make riding more difficult, are the ones that really… emphasize the anatomy down there.
Like the types we find in Henry VIII armour and later 16th century?
Always been fascinated by these, glad to see it made and worn
So what I want to know is how much difference would those three layers of mail + period underlayers make if someone were to knee you in the groin while they were in a plate leg harness? Yes the question assumes you have either be unhorsed or are engaging in foot combat to begin with, but the most famous codpiece I know of was Henry the 8ths from his unused field of cloth of gold foot armor.
Great video! I've always wondered about the interaction when riding.
Plink-plink-plink-plink-plink-plink-plink
Excellent video, very interesting. Am I going to rush out and upgrade my harness? Probably not.
Great video, Arne.
I keep threatening to make my husband a plate codpiece in the armour shop, but it would be for show (and the fun of making it), it wouldn't be for fighting. The last thing I imagine you'd want is to be hit in a codpiece that's not quite in the right place as you're moving around because in all our fantasy armour experiments, nothing wants to stay between the legs like that, I feel like it would risk either pinching things you'd rather not get pinched while you're moving in general or concentrating pressure somewhere you'd really rather not have concentrated pressure when struck... In our fight group, anyone who wants groin protection wears a standard cup underneath everything. And most of us have articulating faulds that go down pretty low too, and some of the bigger gambesons are long enough to offer some protection. Some wear chain voiders, some don't, if we used sharp swords I'd have a lot more chain on my plate than I do, but we work with rebated stage blades because we like re-useable opponents...
We always assumed for cavlary, the saddle would protect the groin, I would worry about chafing wearing a codpiece on a saddle... but then I personally get chafing and bruises from anything that's not breeches or chaps between me and a saddle (only wore my armour on a horse once for a 5 minute pony ride, though I rode horses for about 30 years) and I wouldn't wear a codpiece anyways because groin hits are less of a concern when your, uh, personal equippment is ...uh, internal :P (not that they're zero concern, I have been dropped to my knees in martial arts when I ran into a knee at high velocity, bruised pubic bones aren't much fun either).
Thaks for a fun video!
First off let me say that's a lot of bunny videos. I was expecting to see more about an armour shop, or something related to LARPping and HEMA. An example of you can never judge a book by its cover.
On the topic, yeah the human anatomy is difficult to understand, we still today have difficulty in making the correct type of protection equipment. Also with clothing when you are trying to balance between comfort and being fashionable.
I personally have experience it from a military and martial arts perspective, and it was always a situation of deciding whether to be comfortable or having the extra protection.
The weather was another factor that would play a significant role in making those decisions sometimes, but not always. There's also a curve time period in which you just have to adapt and get used to it. That was the hardest part.
@@tatumergo3931 Heh, yeah, my channel doesn't represent all my interests, just the fluffy one who doesn't care about video editing. My husband and I started doing armouring and armoured fighting about fifteen years ago and took over the armouring part of the shop after our mentor passed away from cancer. We usually end up doing our demonstrations in hot weather (where you learn real fast not tl leave steel armour in the sun) but now and then we get to enjoy a cool day for a demonstration, and once I even had to put a heat pack in my gambeson before putting on armour that had been in my below-freezing garage for one winter engagement.
But on the balance between comfort and protection, I find that pops up in most aspects of my life. I wear steel toed boots to work all the time, even when I'm just cleaning a building, I never wear shorts to work or to the garden because I need that extra armour point from cloth, I never failed to wear a helmet on my horse, I always belt up in the car and I always wear a full bee suit when I'm out in the apiary. I wear an underwire bra to Aikido to aovid bruised sideboob from being pinned even though I generally can't stand the things othewise. I wear prescription lenses so often don't bother with safety glasses except in the metal shop or when using power tools. I wear a respirator when I clean the rabbit pen (allergies).
It's all a matter of weighing risk vs comfort, but with armour, one of my friends likes to say, when you first start fighting you armour EVERYTHING, then as you realize what does and doesn't get hit, you start removing armour until you start getting hit again, then you add it back :) Same friend always wears a cup after getting nutted by a mace in an SCA event.
As an example, I'd feel perfectly comfortable fighting without my breastplate/backplate on if it wasn't holding up other pieces of my armour, literally the only dents on my breastplate are from the "look how hard he can hit me and I don't feel a thing" part of our demonstrations. And I added lames to my half-gauntlets after getting the sides of my knuckles pinched off by sword strikes more than once. Generally now the only bruises I get are from carrying my armour to the venue :)
@@bunhelsingslegacy3549 . Aikido!? Yeah I remember Aikido, I used to get more hurt there than when I was doing judo or karate-do. Some people just don't know how to be a good uke and flow....
@@tatumergo3931 Some dojos are "harder" than others, ours aims to be on the softer side, we're very much "blend, don't block". Most of the injuries I've sustained in Aikido have been from my own lack of awareness of where my body is, like dropping my uke directly onto my big toe, or landing a breakfall where I am throwing myself, not being thrown, on the point of my shoulder, I'm just glad my mistakes only hurt me and not someone else. Though with my hypermobile joints I do have to remind some people that I don't have much warning zone between "OK" and "VERY NOT OK!" and to please go slow on any joint locks. And I'm really hesitant to work with peoole I don't know at seminars, had some bad experiences with people using force instead of skill. The class I was teaching last night, I was making everyone channel their inner noodle, do not resist, if you don't resist you don't give them anything to work with and they just melt, I even got through to some of the really strong rigid types and we were all having fun trying to be strong as uke when the nage was not!
@@bunhelsingslegacy3549. Ha ha yeah it's always the white belts that are the most dangerous...
Well done!
This looks like it would work on the streets. Could you ride a motorbike in your harness?
George A. Romero's 1981 Knightriders, that was a fun film.
Very cool video!
Do you have any thoughts on why codpieces went from being rare in the 15th century to quite common and prominent by the 16th century?
Appears it may have just been for fashion.
@@coop5329 .......Black Death and the middle class. People were less concerned about being vulgar because following the teachings of the catholic church failed to there family from dieing from the plague and from them falling ill. Middle class want to assert their new social class, set them apart from the lower class and give the social middle finger to the nobility.
The simplest sophomoric answer is Sex, they were having more Sex. As PJDAltamirus mentioned the Black plague decimated quite a lot of the population. Entire cities and towns ended up empty or nearly empty, the few survivors just wanted to celebrate life and being alive. The strict securalistic morals of the past were no longer accepted or care for.
It was one of the reasons for the beginning of the Renaissance, an explosion in arts and sciences which gave us all those works of art which depicted the naked human body. An exploration into the study of human anatomy and new philosophical and theological ideas.
Can we get one with a built in wheel-lock? asking for a friend. ;)
or what if you were not planning on riding a horse that day?
One of the things we failed to see today is the type of clothing that was worn underneath the armour. Modern clothes don't allow for the same type of comfort, as clothing from the time period.
For example a loincloth tends to wrap and hold those parts closer and more tightly to the body, than modern boxer shorts or briefs do. Modern leggings of today are also a very poor representation of braies of the age.
i was wearing medieval woolen hose, and medieval shoes, i used a lendenier to suspend it, as per historical practice, i wore modern clothes on the upper body, and a t-shirt under the curass, indeed. but that really doesn't change the functioning of the piece.