Airflo Skagit Scout: here's a few tricks on using this great line
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- The Airflo Scout is one of the new generation, ultra short Skagit heads, but is it really a Skagit head? Here's the secret to getting the most out of these heads.
Whoa, what a huge shift. The distinction between skagit casting with the tip in the water, and a D loop loaded cast, where the tip is part of the D loop is crucial in understanding how to use these short heads. Thanks for the insight!
You dont have to look far to see how correct you are. The guideline 4d compact multi tip line is this exact thing and it changed my spey game. Thank you.
Your videos address the whole enchilada from flies to lines to casting! I started watching Linespeed Jedi that really addresses casting. Thanks for all of your information!!! Cheers Peter!
Thanks Ian! I always learn from and enjoy your videos.
As usual, right on the money with concept. I can't use the OPST heads except on single-hand applications. They're too short. I can turn over anything I want with the Scout + tip formula you describe. This is compounded by the relative compression of grain weights fir smaller/lighter two-handed rods in trout spey,I find. Then profile starts to make more difference. I've been partial to the Loop SDS series for that reason.
Makes a lot of sense.
Just wanted to say after further investigation and thought. I see your points have lots of merit. I do feel at least a piece of the sinktip (similar to leader in scandi single spey) comes into play with the super short heads. Though With the tom larimer stroke tips/changes+ short rod it feels very skagit. Maybe im in denial, Still i won't be fully single speying my 130 grain sink tip with 3.5 inch weighted intruder my scout moves (11#7) anytime soon :) . Cheers peter, hopefully get some scandi line lessons from you this fall. Finally ready to try touch in go again
That's the great information. It is getting too complicated which line goes where. I experimented about the grain weight by myself to figure out which line goes with which sink tip. My conclusion is that weight of the sink tip should be around 10-20% of shooting head. (Maybe less for Underhand Cast as you explained) If I use 510 grain Skagit head, I use RIO intermediate MOW Tips (All is 115 grain). Airflo Poly readers have different grain weight depend on the sinking rate (120 Grain for Ex. 10' Super Fast Sinking Polyleader , 30 Grain for 8' Slow Sinking Polyleader ) I try to keep the 10-20% ratio, and match the total weight (Shooting Head + Sink Tip) to rod weight.
Another great informative video!!! Thanks so much Peter. What Skagit scout would you recommend for a 11' 6/7wt Hardy Demon Switch. I mostly use polyleaders and 10' t tips. Thanks in advance.
This is a bit harder question to answer as it depends on how you want to cast them - as a Skagit head or a Scandi. I have a couple of videos coming up that dives into this issue. It could range from a 360 Scout + 50 gr tip vs. a 450 gr. Scout not counting the tip.
@@hooked4lifeca That's exactly my dilemma. I'm not sure if I should opt for a lighter scout to cover both options. Like a 390 or 420? Any experience with the Switch Streamer integrated line? Same question on grain weight. Being a short head Skagit(20') would you choose a 360,390 or 420 grain. I'd mostly be using it off the beach with polyleaders.
@@prairiefire73 Are you overhead casting or Spey casting off the beach?
@@hooked4lifeca I have two integrated lines for that. A 9wt Airflo 40+ (365grains) and a Snowbee 7/8 Switch line (400grains). I bought a Scout 450 and after watching the video I'm wondering if I got one to heavy. I was planning on using it to swing flies with T8/11 10' tips.
It will work if you cast it using a typical Skagit stroke where we leave the tip in the water. Then the 450 should be just about right.
Great early Sunday clip for me in the eastern time. Very helpful and informative videos, -how about flies size and wind?
Would you please explain best head profile for turn-over capabilities, how’s the transmission of mass-energy-line speed when large flies are needed and wind is present using both fly lines systems in two hypothetical scenarios or windy situations? (Open water /Saltwater surf environment specially)
I see not much demos in more demanding scenarios from you tube showing the actual heads profiles performance over
-heavy large flies
-windy conditions
Thank you so much for the time and sharing!
Turnover force is a function of front taper length, tip thickness, the overall mass of the line and its density.
A level line has the maximum turnover force and the earliest Skagit heads were nothing more than 14 wt. level fly line. The closer a fly line resembles a level line, the greater its turnover force.
The front taper of a line is a compromise between turnover and efficiency. Increase one and we lose the other. The clearest example is contrasting two 6 wt. lines, one a bass bug the other a distance taper. The former would have a taper around 4' long while the latter will have a taper around 15' long. The longer the taper the more efficiently the energy flows through the line to the leader, the farther the line can be cast.
When casting big bulky flies, the leader construction is equally important. A bass bug line with a long, wimpy leader isn't going to turn over much.
Casting technique is vitally important for even long tapered lines can cast into the wind with the right technique.
Lastly, we can construct flies that look bulky in the water, but will slick down when cast.
So if we have an angler with good windy day casting technique, an appropriately constructed leader, and a fly that will slick down, then even a long tapered line will work well. This explains why I try not to get into this vs. that discussions as everything is a compromise and those compromises are often impacted by multiple other factors.
So the simplest answer to your question is, a line with a short front taper and thick tip will turn over high drag flies better than one with a long front taper and a thin tip, but it's easy to demonstrate that a short tapered, thick tipped line isn't always the best solution.
Your question sounds like the topic for a video. ;)
Hi Peter.
Very interesting video.
Peter I would like your opinion on a set up I am thinking of the system you are using with the scout fly line plus tip to make up the scandi rating for your rod. So taking that on board I am thinking of a Rio integrated skagit 5# which is 375grains plus the vision hybrid 15 ft tips which are 170 grains. Total is 545 grains that is the rating for my 8/9# fly rod with a scandi line. I think the integrated running line on the Rio would be a lot nicer casting that have a whole lot of loop to loop connector. I would love your opinion on that setup.
Kind regards.
Alfie Flanagan
An integrated line definitely has advantages and I've used similar setups in the past. I've so far as to weld the head and running line together.
Thank you
Peter, what are the advantages of 15 foot tips vs 10-12 foot heads for switch rods?
The 15' factory made, tapered tips cast very well, so if we're looking for max casting distance, they're the way to go. The shorter tips let us cast in more confined spaces.
In terms of fishing, it's more about understanding the mechanics of what is going on with the relationship between tips and our flies. Both types of tips work if our rig is calibrated correctly. The fly shouldn't work against the tip and vice versa.
Hi Peter.
I'd like to ask how u compare the Airflow skagit compact G2 to the F.I.S.T. The G2 is on sale at present. R they worlds apart?
Rod is a 14ft 9wt so am thinking 570 r 600gr. Would the FIST be a better option to fish the fly deep (Superior design)?
The F.I.S.T. will fish much deeper than the G2 when using the same tip, so which one is best for you depends on deep and fast the rivers are, where you fish.
Another great video, thank you. I use a 360 scout on my 6128 and find that right on with a 12 foot tip ( I struggle with a shorter tip as I blow the anchor more easily). You mentioned the grain weight of one of your competitors being a different weighting. Can I add that a competitor has the short Skagit taper the other direction, ie fat end of the line nearest the tip, which in turn increases torque against the rod during the sweep, therefore less grains in the skagit head required to load the rod. Do you think this is an extension of the principles you explained in this video?
I've only cast that line a few times on client's rods and not enough to form any opinion regarding the pros and cons of its taper. It did take an adjustment to my mechanics to get it to go reasonably well. The placement of the weight in the head would not seem to be a reason why they dropped the weight recommendations for those heads. Rather it's more the case of where the bulk of the mass is placed in the D-Loop.
If the bulk of the mass creeps into the lower half of the D-Loop during a standard Skagit type sweep, then the head has to be heavy. If we can get that mass more into the upper half through an Underhand stroke, then we can drop the head weight as the mass becomes more productive.
A scout on basically a13 foot rod isn't a great match up. The scout is in the same vein as opst or SA spey lite skagit. They're short heads for single hand and switch rods (up to 12 feet).. Obviously it can be done but its no suprise you have massive anchor issues. A skagit compact is the way to go after 12 and around 14 a skagit max
Thank you for the tips. I have to try the different setups out for myself. What two grain weight configurations would you recommend for the IMX-Pro 5111-4 with 1) 12-15 ft sink tips and 2)polyleaders & 10’ light tips? Thank you in advance!
In the video, I was using a 330 Scout and a 10' T7 tip on my 51111. That would be my choice for PolyLeaders as well. If you went with longer, heavier tips, then dropping to 300 or even a 270 when using it long, tapered tips. However, there's a limit to how much tip a 270 will turn over, so I wouldn't push that too far.
Taking an airflo skagit and cutting it in the back, results in almost the same thing? Or is there a large difference in front tapers?
A Skagit G2 Compact has a front taper that's about 1.5' longer. The biggest difference will be the drop in weight as you cut it back.
So if my line is 262 grains so do i put a 262 scout line? (Head weight )
Usually the scout head + tip weight is the way to go.
Ok, great confusion. So where does the airflo Rage head fit in?? They claim it's a hybrid of skagit and scandi...........
The Rage is basically a Scandi head missing the first 5' of its front taper. That gives it more turnover force than a Scandi head, but not the junk turning ability of a Scout. A rage is like a Scout with a floating tip. Here's a video that explains it: th-cam.com/video/s6JPcWpQyFg/w-d-xo.html
SO ALL SKAGITS ARE JUST BELLY SECTIONS OF A SCANDI ?? DO YOU TREAT FULL WEIGHT SKAGIT LINES THE SAME?
Bur a lot heavier.
@hooked4lifeca what head weight would you recommend for redington chromer 6116-4?
What are you planning to throw in the way of tips?
@@hooked4lifeca right now I have a set of 10' light (T8) mow tips as well as some 10' poly leaders. Might want to go heavier as well at some point. What are your recs for both.
@@ryanv829 I'd probably look at 390-420 for that setup, but if we worked with long leaders and ariealized the tip and head, we could probably go a lot lighter. With these short heads, our casting mechanics pay a big role in selecting the right weight.