Hello Daniel, thank you for showing us the difference between your two cam grinders. The knowledge and the thinking needed to use either of them grinders is mind blowing. This is a perfect example of the meaning ( pay attention to detail ) at it's finest. The words of knowledge and wisdom you speak are absolutely amazing. I would take a bet that you grind cam shafts in your dreams while you sleep ❤
Daniel. Sir, you have a brilliant mind. You're, a critical thinker. Thank you, for taking the time, to explain your new cam grinder to us. Many, people don't understand the knowledge and expertise it takes, to do what you do. Not to mention, the hundreds of thousands of dollars, of equipment. You, understood the importance of your new grinder and drove across country (literally) to obtain it. 👍
Good video Daniel. Interesting the differences and overall similarities between the Van Norman and the Berco. Makes you wonder why the index plates were different? I wonder if Harvey Crain had them make it that way or maybe Peterson which was the Berco distributor for many years. They imported alot of the Berco grinders. I do not know about cam grinders but the Berco crankshaft grinders are one of the best as far as I am concerned. Very precise. Thanks for sharing. Have a great day.👍🇺🇸👍
When I was a young guy I had a Cam Dymactics 280 hydraulic flat tappet cam I n 327. 2 lobes didn't have enough taper and the lifters didn't rotate. Wore the lobes. Back then I didn't realize I should check that but nobody i know did back in the 80s. Thanks for the video.
It's excellent how far you go to have thing's rite, the new machine would be a great addition, some of these New Cam's are a bit suspect, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones, Wishing yous a Healthy and Prosperous New Year
🔔😎🇺🇸 Mr. Powell. I appreciate your modesty, humbleness, and work ethic. Please dont sell yourself short. Always remember this: The greatest brain surgeon probably cannot properly remove a toe nail. You Sir are a master at your craft. God bless you, your wife, and your naked hungry children. 😁
@@powellmachineinc I have a question regarding cam lobe taper. You mentioned Chevrolet all having the same angle vs Ford/Mopar having opposing. Would it be possible to grind a Ford/Mopar cam with the Chevrolet angles? If it works on the Chevy why wouldn't it work on the others? I'm a Chrysler fan personally. Just curious.
I have read some stuff on forums about the size of grinding wheels, I guess saying newer/supposedly better is a 5" wheel vs big wheel grinders. Would you please educate us on that? Thanks
@brandonroseman1039 the advantage to small wheels is you are able to do smaller inverse radius cams like found in ohv finger and cam on rocker type systems.
you mentioned the tail stock on one of the cam grinders kept working loose due to lacking a spring. on a lathe if you had a live center for the tail stock it wouldn't have any wear at the workpiece letting it work loose.
Danny depending on how old that lunati core is it may be one of the old ones from when Joe went in business. He bought old wore out storm vulcan machines I thing from crane and started grinding. Lobes would be all over the place but a lot of them still ran pretty good for the time.
At 6:19 that second scale is a Venier scale, if you look close the ticks dont line up with the main scale. This is used to measure tenths of a degree. Same as the tenths scale on a mic. I would read that as 253.3 degrees.
I'm curious if the grinders have ball bearing or rigid followers on the cam lobe master plate and if rigid, would upgrading to a bearing type be better to prevent wear on the masters?
Being an builder and an Auto machine shop owner in Connecticut I'm guessing that the Chevrolet motors have a taper ground the same direction is because they don't have a cam thrust plate to keep the camshaft from moving forward the small block Mopar and most Fords have a camshaft thrust plate to keep the camshaft from moving forward and and back, at least that's the only reason I can think of why the tapers ground into the cams lobs opposite of each other???
Do you have cam cores and plates to do Pontiac Ram Air V cams? The valve placement is different than the other Pontiac V8's and Ram Air I through Ram Air IV engines. Pontiac Ram Air V engines have the tunnel port heads on them and the intake pushrods go through tubes in the center of the intake ports. Also I checked a cam out of a IH DT466 engine a couple months ago and the lift on the cam lobes was within .002. Around 4 of the lobes had a smaller base circle measurement of the other lobes for some reason, but when I substracted the base circle measurement from the total diameter of each lobe, the lift was within .002 across the board. I don't know if they messed up on a few of the lobes when making the camshaft and they had to do some extra grinding on a few of the lobes to correct them? I found it interesting that a few of the base circle measurements were less than the rest. I was expecting them to be about the same straight down the line. What would it cost to have some IH 6 cylinder flat tappet cams reground to get them back to new spec? Great videos and I enjoy every one of them:)
The .006 at the lifter flashed by so quickly that I did not catch it so after your "heads up" I went back and took a look. .006 at the lifter is about .010 at the valve with a 1.7 rocker what does that imply? Harvey Crane used .006 at the valve which is What SAE specs are which you find on the Specs from the Big Detroit grinders like ELGIN, Wolverine, and their customers like Melling et all (and most Summit Cams in the past) .006 at the valve is .004 at the lifter with a 1.5 rocker like SBC So when you look at those 280s durations of the Lunati they are really longer than what you might think if doing a comparison There is only one cam grinder (Isky) that i can think of that used .009 on one (obsolete) line of FTH cams Engle uses .008 as do several others and that's about what MOPAR works out to So a long lazy lobe (from what I can guess without a cam doc) with lots of bragging rights You need a better Intake Close point to get Dynamic compression so fudge those figures a little
Cnc grinders are always some xy move one right after another. The use of a large master all that to be smoothed and translated into a nice arc on these old grinders. I believe by design you will always have a smoother cam profile on a cam done on one of these grinders than a Cnc. I thought van Norman made their cam grinders on up thru the 70s maybe that wasn’t the case. I guess the fact the manufacturers had specialty grinders that could grind all the lines at the same time meant their market was pretty limited.
Have you had any SBF Anderson cams sent to you for anything..? Seeing the differences on that lunati makes me wish I would have checked my Anderson.. I basically trust no one..! Working at Melling, I see how some guys do things when your not looking over their shoulder.
Thanks, Daniel. Back in the 90s my boss was assembling a 358 Chevy and was having some issues with pushrod length. We got out the indicator to check " at the lifter" and was kind of shocked at what we saw. We ended up pulling the cam and found the same variation. It was a Lunati cam. At the time, we used mostly Lazer cams, but the customer insisted we try that cam. Needless to say, we didn't use it. My boss never used another Lunati cam. Lol.
@@powellmachineinc sorry I only thought they were off for whatever cam direction so can't have it both way and a VN plate won't fit? Where do you find the time? well we did it with crank dampners
i have a lunati cam i will send you with the lifters catastrophic damage less than 10 minutes during break in would love you to comment on this u wont believe the carnage
I wear progressive bifocals. All day. Every day. Not remotely inconvenient. Eric at SMA has same process as you. I can't see...I think it's XYZ but since my glasses are 6 feet away...WTF guys. 67 y/o dude here. Wearing glasses, especially doing machining work, doesn't mean you are weak.
@gailtaylor1636 idk what all that was about..... but, mine get dirty and scratched up constantly, normally there right by me on the shelf, but was in the office, I wear the when needed, calm down, it's ok 👍
After the integration I am shaw you are sakeing , was Hitler or Putin elected I am praying for the American people ! 26 millions Australians can not follow what is happening! If you had a third machine could you make all the modifications to it for your idea machine or work on the two machines you have ?
Hello Daniel, thank you for showing us the difference between your two cam grinders. The knowledge and the thinking needed to use either of them grinders is mind blowing. This is a perfect example of the meaning ( pay attention to detail ) at it's finest. The words of knowledge and wisdom you speak are absolutely amazing. I would take a bet that you grind cam shafts in your dreams while you sleep ❤
Daniel. Sir, you have a brilliant mind. You're, a critical thinker. Thank you, for taking the time, to explain your new cam grinder to us. Many, people don't understand the knowledge and expertise it takes, to do what you do. Not to mention, the hundreds of thousands of dollars, of equipment. You, understood the importance of your new grinder and drove across country (literally) to obtain it. 👍
@strokermaverick Thank you very much!! Trust me I'm just of average intelligence, there lots way smarter, they just aren't applying themselves!
3rd time's a charm.😊
Thanks for taking the time to do the comparisons on the grinders, kinda like
a gen 1 & gen 2 series.
@@rcf8367 absolutely 💯
another informative presentation thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge.
@@gordongrimes2797 glad to do it!
Third time was a dandy. Thanks for showing the difference on the grinders.
@larrybeussink7737 absolutely, we need a gimbal for this new camera
Another great Vid! Keep up the great work
Andy
@UnityMotorSportsGarage Thank you Andy
I’ve learned so much from you that I have to get a bigger hat, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!!
Appreciate that!
Good stuff! This goes to show that good machining and paying attention to details has a tremendous effect on the product.
absolutely!
Good video Daniel.
Interesting the differences and overall similarities between the Van Norman and the Berco.
Makes you wonder why the index plates were different?
I wonder if Harvey Crain had them make it that way or maybe Peterson which was the Berco distributor for many years.
They imported alot of the Berco grinders.
I do not know about cam grinders but the Berco crankshaft grinders are one of the best as far as I am concerned.
Very precise.
Thanks for sharing.
Have a great day.👍🇺🇸👍
It's a mystery!, but there definitely the best machines
When I was a young guy I had a Cam Dymactics 280 hydraulic flat tappet cam I n 327. 2 lobes didn't have enough taper and the lifters didn't rotate. Wore the lobes. Back then I didn't realize I should check that but nobody i know did back in the 80s. Thanks for the video.
@@dondotterer24 definitely
It's excellent how far you go to have thing's rite, the new machine would be a great addition, some of these New Cam's are a bit suspect, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones, Wishing yous a Healthy and Prosperous New Year
We appreciate the kind words! Happy New Year!
This was an awesome video. machinist and craftman with wisdom as an added bonus.
@@Tom-z1q Tyvm! We really appreciate that 💯
Great video! I am rebuilding the 427 in my jet boat. When it's time to get a new solid roller cam I will be ordering one from you guys.
@@TomBurris-um3hf roughly 2 weeks, just depending on the current work load
@powellmachineinc need to finish my heads and get them on a flow bench then I will contact you guys about a cam.
Nice tour. I feel you on reading mics. I switched to digital a couple years ago after 35 years
@@metlmuncher it's fine with my glasses, I just hate wearing them
🔔😎🇺🇸
Mr. Powell.
I appreciate your modesty, humbleness, and work ethic.
Please dont sell yourself short.
Always remember this:
The greatest brain surgeon probably cannot properly remove a toe nail.
You Sir are a master at your craft.
God bless you, your wife, and your naked hungry children. 😁
@@hotrodray6802 we really appreciate that 💯, ty
Thank you for your time. I always learn from your videos.
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
This is an incredible video. Thank you for taking the time
@@matthewklein9225 our pleasure
@@powellmachineinc I have a question regarding cam lobe taper. You mentioned Chevrolet all having the same angle vs Ford/Mopar having opposing. Would it be possible to grind a Ford/Mopar cam with the Chevrolet angles? If it works on the Chevy why wouldn't it work on the others? I'm a Chrysler fan personally. Just curious.
Thanks for the great video. I learn every time I watch.
@@LP23D6 awesome, that's the goal
Beautifully explaining my good sir keep up the good work
@@luuna_5.7hemi75 tyvm
@ yesssir
Just out of curiosity, how long does a stone last? As always thanks for sharing your knowledge
Very informative Daniel. Thank you for sharing!
Our pleasure 👍
I have read some stuff on forums about the size of grinding wheels, I guess saying newer/supposedly better is a 5" wheel vs big wheel grinders.
Would you please educate us on that? Thanks
@brandonroseman1039 the advantage to small wheels is you are able to do smaller inverse radius cams like found in ohv finger and cam on rocker type systems.
great info,,,waiting to watch the flat-head grind
💯, ty
I thought I was the only one having QC issues with hard parts. Frustrating! Keep the Vids rolling. Thanx!
@@GregMosley-l7b absolutely! Will do
Great video , curious what are the stones made of and how long do they last ?
Another great class, thanks Teach!
@Hillbillygarage1215 Glad you enjoyed!
you mentioned the tail stock on one of the cam grinders kept working loose due to lacking a spring. on a lathe if you had a live center for the tail stock it wouldn't have any wear at the workpiece letting it work loose.
Excellent video, thanks
glad you liked it
Nicely done…great explanation
@@DJTruth_1970 Ty
Danny depending on how old that lunati core is it may be one of the old ones from when Joe went in business. He bought old wore out storm vulcan machines I thing from crane and started grinding. Lobes would be all over the place but a lot of them still ran pretty good for the time.
Video seemed fine to me. Thanks for the excellent info!
I forgot to add, are these older machines?
Our pleasure!
Another great video! Lots of information.
Appreciate it.
What about the flathead technique to install the cam and cam bearings at the same time to get the lift to the od of the cam brgas?
@jmflournoy386 how can you install the bearing on the cam if lobe is taller than the journal??
@@powellmachineinc I thought about that they must have had to put it over the nose first Bonneville flathead great mag story with pictures
split the cam brg like a rod brg HMMM
At 6:19 that second scale is a Venier scale, if you look close the ticks dont line up with the main scale. This is used to measure tenths of a degree. Same as the tenths scale on a mic. I would read that as 253.3 degrees.
How many cam grinders have you used? How many cam grinders has Daniel used? I think he knows what he is doing and how to read scales.
@@bobhudson6659amen dude a mothafriggin men love the internet wise guy comments that mean nothing
Another great video!!!
Thanks!
I'm curious if the grinders have ball bearing or rigid followers on the cam lobe master plate and if rigid, would upgrading to a bearing type be better to prevent wear on the masters?
@GhostSniper67 yes, it's precision bearings
Being an builder and an Auto machine shop owner in Connecticut I'm guessing that the Chevrolet motors have a taper ground the same direction is because they don't have a cam thrust plate to keep the camshaft from moving forward the small block Mopar and most Fords have a camshaft thrust plate to keep the camshaft from moving forward and and back, at least that's the only reason I can think of why the tapers ground into the cams lobs opposite of each other???
@RJG340 BBM don't have a thrust plate.
Do you have cam cores and plates to do Pontiac Ram Air V cams? The valve placement is different than the other Pontiac V8's and Ram Air I through Ram Air IV engines. Pontiac Ram Air V engines have the tunnel port heads on them and the intake pushrods go through tubes in the center of the intake ports. Also I checked a cam out of a IH DT466 engine a couple months ago and the lift on the cam lobes was within .002. Around 4 of the lobes had a smaller base circle measurement of the other lobes for some reason, but when I substracted the base circle measurement from the total diameter of each lobe, the lift was within .002 across the board. I don't know if they messed up on a few of the lobes when making the camshaft and they had to do some extra grinding on a few of the lobes to correct them? I found it interesting that a few of the base circle measurements were less than the rest. I was expecting them to be about the same straight down the line. What would it cost to have some IH 6 cylinder flat tappet cams reground to get them back to new spec? Great videos and I enjoy every one of them:)
no cores, would have to make from bar stock
Friday afternoon cam shaft. Probably made about 45 mins before clock out.
@@oldblueaccord2629 probably
The .006 at the lifter flashed by so quickly that I did not catch it so after your "heads up" I went back and took a look.
.006 at the lifter is about .010 at the valve with a 1.7 rocker
what does that imply?
Harvey Crane used .006 at the valve which is What SAE specs are which you find on the Specs from the Big Detroit grinders like ELGIN, Wolverine, and their customers like Melling et all (and most Summit Cams in the past)
.006 at the valve is .004 at the lifter with a 1.5 rocker like SBC
So when you look at those 280s durations of the Lunati they are really longer than what you might think if doing a comparison
There is only one cam grinder (Isky) that i can think of that used .009 on one (obsolete) line of FTH cams
Engle uses .008 as do several others and that's about what MOPAR works out to
So a long lazy lobe (from what I can guess without a cam doc) with lots of bragging rights
You need a better Intake Close point to get Dynamic compression so fudge those figures a little
@jmflournoy386 all cam cards are at the cam, not at the valve
Cnc grinders are always some xy move one right after another. The use of a large master all that to be smoothed and translated into a nice arc on these old grinders. I believe by design you will always have a smoother cam profile on a cam done on one of these grinders than a Cnc. I thought van Norman made their cam grinders on up thru the 70s maybe that wasn’t the case. I guess the fact the manufacturers had specialty grinders that could grind all the lines at the same time meant their market was pretty limited.
I've never seen a VN newer than 54
Fascinating!!!
Definitely
Have you had any SBF Anderson cams sent to you for anything..? Seeing the differences on that lunati makes me wish I would have checked my Anderson.. I basically trust no one..! Working at Melling, I see how some guys do things when your not looking over their shoulder.
I fixed a few Anderson cams, very slow lazy lobe designs
Thanks for the video.
@@paulshurmon138 absolutely
Interesting info!
@@stevecunningham2759 definitely
Just curious which one will you grind my cam on.
@LarryLux-f6m most likely the Berco, just because the VanNorman is on some other specialty cams
@@powellmachineinc You’ll get the same results…
"We don't try, we do." Sounds like something Yoda said once. 😊
How long does the stone last on those machines?
depends, prob 50-100 cams
Great video , thank you.
Thanks!
@@dirk013adfa welcome 🙏
def want to see them in action.
Thanks, Daniel. Back in the 90s my boss was assembling a 358 Chevy and was having some issues with pushrod length. We got out the indicator to check " at the lifter" and was kind of shocked at what we saw. We ended up pulling the cam and found the same variation. It was a Lunati cam. At the time, we used mostly Lazer cams, but the customer insisted we try that cam. Needless to say, we didn't use it. My boss never used another Lunati cam. Lol.
@@bruce1816 dang....it happens
When is the grind competition between you and Andrew? Are you going to let him have first pick of the machine?
I’ll choose the van Norman every day of the week
@andrewpowell4823 I'm in your corner. Put the wood to the ol man!
@ too many buttons and switches on these new grinders I like the simplicity of the Norman
He can win, I've got 30 years experience on him...
..
We had to regrind a lot of PAW stroker cranks that were ground by them too fast with a too hard steady reast. What a mess
Nice
Thanks
Thanks
Welcome
Messing with taper, another reason you don’t like flat tappets revealed. But old Ford flatties… we all need to revisit our roots.
💯
Turn the center plate around?
@@jmflournoy386 divisions would be on the wrong side
@@powellmachineinc sorry I only thought they were off for whatever cam direction so can't have it both way and a VN plate won't fit? Where do you find the time? well we did it with crank dampners
So, that cam didn't come off of a cam Dr. Ha!
@@Hjfvvdst well. QC was at lunch
@powellmachineinc ha! Way out!
Mr Powell would like to have talk to you about a cam formy BBF alcohol motor but have not to make contact with you
shoot me a email, powellmachineinc@gmail.com
So, with better, faster, slicker machine... you gonna re-think doing flat tappet?
no..... 100% no lol
I would bet the Breco used a 360° plate so you can't offset 110° the wrong direction, without catching it.
Somebody redressed a wheel and forgot to re-zero?
@flinch622 dressing is a .001 at most
Can you donate Buick 455 roller cam?
i have a lunati cam i will send you with the lifters catastrophic damage less than 10 minutes during break in would love you to comment on this u wont believe the carnage
Golllleee
I ground crankshafts for about 30 years and you can't compare any other grinder to a berco .
I wear progressive bifocals. All day. Every day. Not remotely inconvenient. Eric at SMA has same process as you. I can't see...I think it's XYZ but since my glasses are 6 feet away...WTF guys.
67 y/o dude here. Wearing glasses, especially doing machining work, doesn't mean you are weak.
@gailtaylor1636 idk what all that was about..... but, mine get dirty and scratched up constantly, normally there right by me on the shelf, but was in the office, I wear the when needed, calm down, it's ok 👍
@@powellmachineincI did auto body and paint work and after starting to paint my glasses would get overspray on the lens and play tricks on your eyes…
After the integration I am shaw you are sakeing , was Hitler or Putin elected I am praying for the American people ! 26 millions Australians can not follow what is happening!
If you had a third machine could you make all the modifications to it for your idea machine or work on the two machines you have ?